Open 131 - Nightless Vanilla (Over) before 767

[Lowell]

/confirmation

[Lowell]

Great a nightless with a billion scum...

vote white castel

[Lowell]

No, I didn't know what I was signing up for. I went to the queue and wrote "/in" like most people do.

This is a marginal, and wrong, tell. Try harder.

[Lowell]

A good town doesn't put me at L-3 on page 2.

I'm not saying you can't vote for me, I'm saying "try harder." As in, find someone else to talk about. I'll scumhunt when I see something.

[Lowell]

Hm the speed of the bandwagon was pretty quick, I'm not convinced Adam Smith or Jazzmyn really paid attention to what they were doing. Seems more to me like they were just like oh cool a bandwagon let's jump on!

I agree with this. Normally I'm not opposed to D1 quick wagons, but the problem with nightless is that the first lynch is ESSENTIAL. If you get scum on D1 winning is easy. If you lynch town winning becomes nearly impossible.

[Lowell]

I actually just don't like nightless, that's all it means. I think too much of the important action happens right at the top (D1) rather than as the game develops.

Despite his blatant hopping, I don't actually think Wall-E is scum. I think millar is a good wagon, though. I have him in another game and it's like two completely different people (yeah, that was a double-simultaneous-meta, for those keeping score).

fos millar

also,

fos farside

. Just an idea.

[Lowell]

Yeah I didn't like that one either.

It's page 3, I'm not certain what you want from me...

[Lowell]

The other game is ongoing, and won't help either because honestly I'm using my assessment of him in that game to compare to this game, when I'm by no means sure of my assessment in that one either.

[Lowell]

Still here. Will write a summary post when I get a chance.

[Lowell]

Still here. Jury duty kept me away.

[Lowell]

154 is a dumb response to 153. millar looks worse in my eyes as a result of 153.

[Lowell]

pretty sure skitzer is town. don't ask how I know. magic.

[Lowell]

Okay I'm sold on white castle being town. And no prod needed.

[Lowell]

Okay I'm sold on white castle being town. And no prod needed.

Confirm Vote: Lowell

Sold on day 1? Really? Or do you already know he is because your on the other side of the fence?

This might be the dumbest post ever. I get that I'm not the most experienced player ever, but, for the record, that's too dumb a slip to be real.

You're lucky you're so obviously town or you'd be getting a vote.

[Lowell]

Notice what I'm doing and follow along.

unvote, vote farside

Something about her play so far makes me think a "oh, sorry I've been out, vote X" bandwagon vote is about to happen. It's not that she's ignoring the thread so much as when she is on the thread, her posts are weak and vague.

[Lowell]

Okay then how about you unvote me lest the mod doesn't understand.

[Lowell]

I'm not convinced hewitt is intentionally voting for me.

@hewitt- pay attention

[Lowell]

No it sounds like an annoyance at someone who meant to quote SOMEONE ELSE voting me and ended up voting me himself.

[Lowell]

yeah. hilarious.

[Lowell]

Runthrough:

24- farside votes emp for policy lynch
29- emp votes farside
44- White castle votes lowell for whining
45- ditto netlava
46- ditto adam smith
47- ditto jazzmyn
55- wall-e agrees, but vows to wait until end of day to vote Lowell [-, scared?]
56- farside points out dumbness of 55 [+], demands more of lowell [-]
58- hewitt questions speed of the wagon
59- millar votes lowell [-, no explanation]
61- skitzer doesn't like lowell wagon
63- jazzmyn unvotes
64- farside unvotes, votes millar for wagon-hopping, says she never liked lowell wagon [-, too easy]
66- wall-e votes lowell [-, why now?]
71- lowell FOSs millar, farside
77- white castle votes millar, peppers thread with posts [+, at least he's trying]
92- lowell leads w/ 3 votes
90s- hewitt and wall-e argue, sort of [-, looks a little staged]
103- wall-e votes lowell... again
104- lixyl votes millar
111- netlava votes skitzer [+, good hunch, new angle, town points]
120- emp wakes up, votes lowell for reasons in 44 [-, again, why now?]
132- lowell 4 votes, millar 3
136- emp accuses lowell of "sitting back"
137- millar quickly agrees, says lowell playing "nervous games" [-, so quick to agree]
138- farside disagrees
140s- white castle posts like whoa
150- white castle wants a "list" from everyone [-, this can't help]
153- millar questions the attacks on him, not the attackers [-, bad]
154- wall-e quickly agrees [-, why?]
156- lowell calls out millar's dumbness
165- lowell 4 votes, millar 3
167- jazzmyn votes skitzer for various reasons [+, good logic]
170- hewitt explains his voting habits [+, strangely town]
171- emp wants the millar case explained
179- lowell calls skitzer town
180- jazzmyn defends skitzer vote [+, good]
180s- hewitt and white castle argue over former's voting habits
188- white castle votes hewitt [-]
193- wall-e buys the white castle "slip" (# of townies voting), votes white castle
204- netlava does not consider it a slip
219- lowell says white castle town
221- wall-e votes lowell for "clearing people for scum to kill" [-, I have no idea what that means]
222- millar quickly agrees, says no townie should "know" who is town [-, brilliant?]
224- lowell votes farside for lurking, mostly
228- netlava reiterates interest in skitzer [+, not lowering to the crowd]
231- lowell leads w/ 5 votes
242- millar reiterates that lowell is lurking

Some things that strike me now that I'm actually paying attention:

netlava

and

hewitt

are the most pro-town players, by far. Netlava has not jumped lazily on bandwagons. He doesn't post all that much, but I feel like I know clearly where he stands, which is a plus. The fact that hewitt isn't afraid to make people angry is good. Also that he hasn't been an idiot and jumped on my wagon is a plus.

Something is up with

millar

, and it isn't good. I read him originally as town, but now I'm not feeling it. He jumped on the lowell wagon in 59 with no explanation (right after wall-e had said he wanted to). In 136 emp accuses me of lurking. Millar immediately agrees in 137. Again, in 221 wall-e votes lowell, and millar posts right after to CONFIRM his vote on me. Everything millar does reeks of a desperate need to be loved... particularly by emp and wall-e.

wall-e

, as well, looks bad. He initially states his interest in voting me, but is cautious to do so in fear of looking too eager. Then he votes for me when it's safe. Later, post 221 makes no sense, and he looks eager to go back to a safe wagon. Worse, he did this after I voiced my disagreement with those who considered there to be a white castle "slip." Wall-E was one of these people. So, if he thinks white castle slipped, and is scum, why did he immediately jump on to me and say that I was "clearing people for scum to kill"? I think his heart was never in the white castle wagon.

white castle

is hard to read. On the one hand, I admire his aggressiveness and willingness to move the thread forward. On the other hand, I have him linked to unsavory characters like wall-e and millar a little too much for my liking. They tried a bit too hard in the 220s to run interference.

I expect more, generally, all the way around, from

skitzer

and

farside

. I've played with them before and nothing about their play here makes me think they care who wins.

jazzmyn

looks relatively town, though I don't have much to go on.

Anyone I haven't mentioned I have no opinion of because they're lurky or pointless.

FOS millar
FOS white castle
unvote, vote Wall-E

[Lowell]

Good point! I bet Millar agrees with you!

[Lowell]

The point I'm making is that millar follows you around agreeing with you. As for your other point about wanting to vote but being scared to, I even LIST post numbers... it's 55. Read again.

[Lowell]

Explain why you voted WC for a "slip", then left white castle to vote me when I said it wasn't a slip. Not only that, you said that by declaring WC town I was "clearing a path for scum" or something.

Did I convince you WC was town? If not, why aren't you voting him? If I did and you're worried scum will kill him (in a nightless, somehow), why are you voting me?

[Lowell]

Right on cue wall-e and millar disagree about something.

[Lowell]

wall-e for looking for reasons stated,
millar for buddying up to wall-e and emp

[Lowell]

I made a list because everyone was voting me and asking me to.

[Lowell]

If nothing else this game is going to die without replacements, so I agree we need them before we lynch.

Plus, as mentioned, D1 in nightless is FAR more important than D1 in regular games, so I'm not willing to just pluck of a lurker like usual.

[Lowell]

lurkers need to be awakened, with votes if necessary.

[Lowell]

I'd like more people to think about voting Wall-E, please.

[Lowell]

I posted a large post about it. You want me to cut and paste?

[Lowell]

No you were right the first time. Scum-driven.

[Lowell]

I like that WC wants to speed things up, but I don't like the way he's slying trying to make it seem like wall-e and myself are the only options.

That said: let's all vote wall-e!

[Lowell]

Wall-E, do you consider White Castle's "I'm tired of you again. I refuse to respond to you until you vote" a clear case of stalling?

It looks to me more like coaching.

[Lowell]

I'm still here. Happy with the wall-e vote.

[Lowell]

I don't see mastin as particularly scummy.

[Lowell]

Let's just get Wall-E dead.

[Lowell]

netlava is the person I'd most like to see on this wagon.

[Lowell]

I still like netlava as town.

I don't like the casual whitecastle "for the same reasons as before" wagon. It's too convenient.

[Lowell]

mod

can you update the title? Though it probably shouldn't, it keeps throwing me off.

[Lowell]

vote skitzer

I have a strong townvibe on netlava, and skitzer has been a disappointment. Two decent enough reasons.

[Lowell]

I'm not against voting for you or emp, persay. But I would like to wake a few people up in the meantime.

[Lowell]

Still here. Took a long weekend. Will get back into it.

[Lowell]

I'd prefer skitzer, but would lynch either one.

[Lowell]

I'm still here, don't replace me. I've been catching up on another game, but will return in force. My vote stands for now. The fact that there's no movement on the wagon makes me think scum are trying to wait out the bandwagon and not have to cast the lynching votes.

[Lowell]

Getting townvibes from mastin.

[Lowell]

I'd like a vote count. Yes, I'm that lazy.

I'm not sure what people see in mastin. As for emp, part of me thinks that the reason we can't get this lynch is that scum are just hoping to wait out the bandwagon and not have to cast the vote.

[Lowell]

unvote, vote empking

. The mastin case is absolutely nowhere.

[Lowell]

^^^ eh, I feel the same way and I'm not scum

[Lowell]

The longer emp sits at lynch-1 with nothing happening, the more sure I become of his scumminess.

[Lowell]

I think that if Emp were town a scum would have jumped in by now with a "screw it, hammer!" post (unless you think all scum were already on a townie wagon, which I find unlikely). The more likely is everyone is trying to protect emp from being lynched and hoping to find support somewhere else.

[Lowell]

I think generally if anyone is going to abandon a game like this one, it's more likely to be town than scum. My sense is that the inactives are largely town, and those who are here and not voting you are largely scum. Hence the votes won't move.

[Lowell]

If empking doesn't die here town will definately lose.

[Lowell]

Ditto SC's comments. Hammer away.

[Lowell]

also posting

[Lowell]

Eh I'm not doing anything until I know emp's alignment.

If he's town, I have the one and only possible game-breaking strategy at the ready...
If he's scum, carry on...

[Lowell]

people derailing empwagon = scum

[Lowell]

Seriously if we just summarily lynch everyone not voting emp we'll catch two more scum, at least.

[Lowell]

Here's the final votelist.

vote count:
Empking – 6 (Furry, StrangerCoug, hewitt, Lowell, White Castle, skitzer)
skitzer – 1 (Empking)
Mastin – 2 (Guybrush Threepwood, Netlava)
hewitt – 1 (Mastin)

Not voting: ,Jazzmyn

Of those voting emp, I'd say WC and skitzer are the least town. Skitzer looked for a hundred different ways to not vote emp, it seems. WC only joined the fight at the last minute. That said, I'm not willing to lynch anyone on the emp wagon today.

Most likely, mastin was the scum-proposed counterwagon to emp. I highly doubt ALL scum were voting for each other. I also think that at LEAST one of the inactives (jazz and guybrush) is scum. Were there five active town and four active scum, the scum would DEFINATELY seized the advantage and not let one of their own get killed. I'm leaning towards jazz scum, with net trying to make a counterwagon by piggybacking on a lurkertownie's vote.

vote netlava

[Lowell]

I'm very tempted to go along with furry and vote skitz. I agree that in a lot of ways he looks the worst. Buuuuuut, I'm having truoble seeing the logic of lynching an emp voter today, when there are so many others that have yet to explain themselves.

[Lowell]

I think I'd support mod killing jazz and Guy. If not, I wouldn't mind lynching them (jazz first). Like I said, I don't see any way they're both town. No way we would have gotten a scum lynch yesterday if they were.

[Lowell]

@skitzer- I don't understand the mastin vote. So it's your contention that the TWO leading wagons yesterday were both scum? So in a game with 4/11 scum we had at least 8/11 voting

for

scum? Keep in mind the scum likely can't talk to each other since there's no night phase... you think they all suddenly decided to bus each other?

[Lowell]

I feel like you tried pretty hard to not lynch emp yourself...

[Lowell]

I think furry, mastin, and SC are town. If I'm right I dont' really care about the rest...

[Lowell]

Not to get too meta, but the fact that "who the player takes over" matters makes me think I'm right, at least one of the inactives is scum.

[Lowell]

screw it.

unvote, vote jazzmyn

. I really think this is the right play. Two dead inactives will probably get us another scum, and we'll have an even bigger advantage.

[Lowell]

Fine whatever. Either way, don't vote me, that's foolish. There's a better wagon everywhere.

[Lowell]

I'm going to be out of town until Tuesday. I'll be back with the correct answer to our problems.

[Lowell]

I'm back. I still don't see the mastin case. I don't think such heavy bussing would happen on D1 of a nightless.

[Lowell]

I'm back. I still don't see the mastin case. I don't think such heavy bussing would happen on D1 of a nightless.

Why not? There are four Mafiosi (one of them dead); I would figure that one would be expendable if they needed to get rid of somebody. Maybe two, given their numbers, but that's pushing it.

Eh, maybe. If it were me I wouldn't do it, not after the first lynch was town.

[Lowell]

@hewitt- the vote on jazz was based on meta. I very strongly feel at least one of the inactives (jazz or guy) is scum (if not both), and of those I think jazz is more likely.

I agree with others that skitzer is scummy-looking (particularly with his wavering at the end of the day), but I'm still not sold on lynching someone who was on the right wagon yesterday.

[Lowell]

I'd like to see a vote count, but I'm going to

unvote, vote netlava

.

Besides him being vaguely annoying, I don't see the mastin case. No matter how many times I read this, I think it's more likely netlava was trying to derail the emp wagon by starting a rival mastin wagon (with an inactive who had placed his vote and disappeared) rather than all of us finding scum the same day.

[Lowell]

Besides him being vaguely annoying, I don't see the mastin case.

I misplaced the shit out of a modifier there. That was a freudian grammar slip if ever I saw one...

[Lowell]

Pretty sure I already did this, but whatever.

unvote, vote netlava

[Lowell]

I don't exactly what happens at deadline, but since this is a NIGHTLESS, we're much better off choosing someone to die rather than (I guess) giving scum a kill they wouldn't have. A no lynch would be a disaster, and netlava is a good lynch thanks to the lead-up to emp's lynch yesterday.

[Lowell]

@hewitt- if netlava turns up scum I'm willing to lynch skitzer no problem, just for shits and giggles and because you could be right and because we'll have lynches to play with. If netlava somehow isn't scum I'll need to think about it more since our situation will be much worse. Either way I've heard your arguments, they're decent, but not enough to make me think we should take out skitzer first.

[Lowell]

Several times I've done this already, but,

unvote, vote netlava

What changed in folks' minds that makes jazz a good lynch now? I was saying that pages ago.

[Lowell]

mod

, I'll be on vacation for the next 10 days. I will try to find internet in that time, but I can't guarantee it. I'd rather not be replaced.

[Lowell]

This argument is largely dumb. If netlava turns up scum I dont' really give a crap who we lynch tomorrow. I'm certainly not going to whine at people for having ideas.

[Lowell]

My internet is still out. I may not be able to catch up until Sunday. Not a problem in this game, at least, since nothing ever happens.

[Lowell]

RL catching up to me. I'll be back in force on Wednesday.

To get me started... why skitzer instead of netlava, exactly?

[Lowell]

You're telling me we're down to 3 scum in 7 players? Again, stupid nightless.

So, no, I guess I won't just vote without looking at things first.

[Lowell]

Okay I've read through.

I don't have any great scumreads, but I have strong townreads on Furry and Mastin. I'm also of the opinion that the voices of dead men matter in nightless, which is a strike against skitzer. One person who looks less good than I remember is SC. 1167 in particular stands out as a possible attempt to coordinate scum votes.

The battle yesterday was largely between skitzer and netlava, it seemed. I think it's likely scum piggy-backed on the netlava wagon (or led it), as there were others (like me) pretty committed to it. This is another point against skitzer.

Withholding a vote for now, but it's important that we not have any lurkers at this point, as all town might be necessary for a correct lynch. So consider me present. Scum, commence bussing.

@mastin- out of curiosity, why hewitt instead of skitzer if they're both scum?

[Lowell]

Okay I'm game. I've read through, skitzer looks pretty scummy, and furry seems pretty innocent.

vote skitzer

[Lowell]

Someone should just fininsh this off. Nothing more is going to happen.

[Lowell]

I really don't like SC's vote.

Ojanen looks bad, no doubt. But really, with 3 scum out of 7 its pretty much a slam dunk for scum to attack an easy target and get one misvote. This sorta looks like what could be happening. I think there might be better targets.

[Lowell]

I still don't understand why scum bothered to bus when both inactives were town. Pointless.

Generally speaking, I like the way ojanen is thinking.

[Lowell]

Actually I remember I led the "vote inactives" charge, assuming there was no way four scum would lynch one of their own with two inactive town. That was wrong, but WC was the only one to jump on it, several pages later for little good reason.

Okay, I'll

vote WC

. If this is wrong, then well played.

[Lowell]

So hewitt didn't insta-hammer. That's a good sign.

[Lowell]

SC also didn't insta-hammer. Another good sign. At this point I'm pretty sure we've got a scum here.

[Lowell]

Can you understand why I'm a little skeptical of the first wagon that comes up in lylo?

So, hewitt is skeptical of the first wagon to come along, yet has no problem casting an immediate vote when day opens? Then all of a sudden he drops the hammer?

As well, I don't like the attempt to pigeonhole factions at the top of the last page as a way of casting himself as the impartial observer.

FOS hewitt

Ojanen saved us the game and looks very very town.

[Lowell]

Oh wait you're talking about yesterday. I already talked about why I voted immediately, I don't know how you missed that.

I saw it. You said he was "sitting back" and letting scum win. THAT was your reason for voting at lynch or lose.

Later, once a rival wagon formed by a now-active ojanen, you set up the false "3 vs. 3" dichotomy that never existed to set yourself up as kingmaker (or at very least, innocent observer to be wooed to one side or the other).

Yet when the WC wagon takes the lead, you say we're being to hasty.

Even your original target, ojanen, is a convenient choice. She was relatively inactive, new to the game, had just hammered skitzer, and looked like an obvious lynch target.

[Lowell]

Also, if hewitt is somehow town, it's clear that SC was trying to push the wagon towards a quicklynch with his scumbuddies.

Actually I'm going to

vote SC

. I think the 2nd vote actually looks worse than the first one, upon reread. Either way, I feel confident that SC/hewitt/mastin contains the last two scum.

[Lowell]

It would make sense if Mastin was scum considering he was the biggest detractor from the Empking wagon and even looked upset when Empking was lynched.

^^^ I am going to read this part again in light of having two confirmed scum. I seem to recall this as well, though if I remember mastin was the second leading candidate.

[Lowell]

@furry- SC because of his strange jump on the lynch or lose ojanen wagon yesterday. Hewitt cast a vote and SC immediately followed, both before most players had even posted. At least one of them is scum. There's no way two town players behave that way.

[Lowell]

unvote

. Meh. Not too long ago I had you as solid town. No longer. The two that strike me as most town at this point are Ojanen and Furry.

I'm going to reread back the part mentioned above for clues.

[Lowell]

vote hewitt

Here's my problem with voting joe. It basically undermines everything we did yesterday. We caught WC because he tried to subtly derail the emp wagon to a mastin wagon. Why would he do that if he was bussing BOTH ways?

As well, if I believe ojanen to be town (and I do), on the day emp died scum were playing with FOUR out of NINE active players.... I find it hard enough already to believe they actually ended up bussing a partner. I would find it more hard to believe they would bus TWO at once without pushing forward a town candidate.

I have town reads on oja and furry, less town reads on SC and joe, so this vote is easy.

[Lowell]

You or SC I guess. If hewitt is scum I'm not that worried about it.

[Lowell]

hewitt is my top suspect, but I'm having a second wind regarding ojanen. I still believe one of the inactives from waaay back when we lynched emp was probably scum. Maybe scum ojanen saw herself as the most likely lynch yesterday, and decided to save herself by bussing someone in order to look more town. I don't think it's super likely, but it's possible.

I've been sleeping on SC and furry for awhile, and I also think there's a chance one of them is scum. I'm having trouble distinguishing them in my mind, atm.

So, yeah, that's pretty much everyone. Not that helpful.

[Lowell]

Lynch or lose. Terrible idea.

I'm likely to vote joe. If he's town we lose anyway as long as his vote stays on me.

[Lowell]

OJ scum fits perfectly throughout, EXCEPT for the day WC was killed.

I am also encouraged by the lack of votes from SC and furry.

[Lowell]

^^^ when I said the above I was in full "OMG OJ is obvtown mode" after the WC lynche. Less so now.

I think it's very possible that OJ saw herself as the obvious lynch with seven left. As she already had two votes, she wanted another target. Since she wasn't sure that target would stick, it makes some sense to go after a scumbuddy, so that if she

is

lynched at least suspicion would have been deflected from her target (WC). This scenario also fits with the emp lynch, because it means one of the inactives WAS scum, so they were playing with 3/9 instead of 4/9.

This is a scenario I brought up before, but I'm coming more and more to believe must be true. I think OJ is a much better lynch target than joe. Joe could be scum, but I don't believe it as much. IF OJ is scum, than joe is almost certainly not. Her argument regarding WC was, I believe, the correct one. WC tryed to divert the emp wagon, but I doubt he would do so if the second candidate (now joe) was ALSO scum. And if OJ is scum, she would have noticed this before the rest of us (as she would have been watching the derailment in "real time", knowing who the scum are), which could explain why she was so ready with a full case against WC.

Minor thing: I don't like the way OJ has twice now signalled when she'll be able to be online. This is not something she mentioned as often earlier, so the fact that she's mentioning it so much today looks like she's trying to coordinate a hammer should a wrong vote be cast by a townie.

fos oj

[Lowell]

vote ojanen

. I think this is the way to go. I'm more and more inclined to believe joe is innocent.

One more thing: awhile back (with 9 left) I made the suggestion that we just kill off the lurkers (guy [now ojanen] and jazzmyn), figuring that one of them would have to be scum or the scum would have had a HUGE advantage the day we ended up killing emp. This idea didn't gain a ton of traction, but one person did jump in-- WC, who voted jazzmyn (later confirmed to be town). That alone is no proof guy/ojanen is scum, but the fact that WC picked jazzmyn sorta looks like he knew one wrong inactive lynch would leave the other inactive unharmed.

[Lowell]

One other thing: for mastin/joe to be scum and ojanen NOT to be scum, we have to believe that despite scum controlling FOUR of the NINE active players with 11 left (giving them essentially the ability to block any lynch they don't like with their four plus two inactives), BOTH the leading candidates (EMP and mastin) were scum. Not only that, but despite this insane double-bussing madness (when they could just as easily have killed a townie), WC would be caught derailing one scumlynch (emp) to propose another (mastin/joe). No amount of WIFOM makes me think this is possible.

If Ojanen is scum, however, everything falls into much better place. Scum only controlled 3/9 actives with 11 left, so their ability to direct the lynch was not as certain, making bussing more plausible.

I'm coming to believe joe's vote on me was impetuous, not necessarily scummy. It's likely scum would have been a bit more careful.

[Lowell]

Um, it would be nice if folks could post their thoughts on this.

[Lowell]

OJ is certainly scum at this point.

joe, you NEED to unvote. I'm not saying don't suspect me, but that vote on me needs to move. If I'm wrong about OJ we're pretty much done anyway, so a vote for me only gives a OJ/SC scumteam a chance to win.

[Lowell]

Hell's fucking yeah. I'm the greatest. Bussing cannot save scum this game!!

Here's a theory I wasn't saying because I needed both Furry and SC to jump on the OJ wagon, and it wouldn't have happened if I had said it.

Joe is not scum. OJ helped us a lot here. Everything I said in the previous case against OJ is true. She inadvertently overplayed her hand by knowing a little

too

well what WC was doing the day of the emp lynch. However, if that's true, there's no way joe is the last scum. Mastin was the target of the derailment, which WC wouldn't have risked if they were both scum. And OJ wouldn't have been watching, thinking "hmm, if needed I can use this 'WC derailed' idea to bus if I have to."

What I've noticed

throughout

the last few days is the insane buddying between SC and Furry. One of them is scum and the other is just, well, flattered to be considered town by someone. It's only natural.

My instinct tells me the last scum is SC. SC's hammer doesn't do much to dissuade me. The way his tone says he'll "trust" Lowell and Furry in that post looks like hardcore buddying, and in 1381 his gratuitous noting of how he and furry can't be the scumpair (true, but strange to say) makes me think he's trying to win friends. There's been a lot of evidence of this in the past as well, and it's something I've been sitting on but didn't mention because, as I said, I needed both Furry and SC's votes on OJ.

Of course, the alternate theory is that if this were true, SC would have joined joe in voting me and waited for OJ to jump in for the hammer and win. That this didn't happen I can only assume is because SC wasn't sure his partner would be around before joe got wise and unvoted.

fos SC

This biggest thing keeping me from a vote here is that SC ended up hammering scum when a rogue vote was cast on me (as mentioned above). This, I admit, is hard to resolve, but it still looks like a stronger case than joe, who just looks clueless.

[Lowell]

Oh, and also, I agree with whoever suggested someone update the first post (SC?). It's a bit more confusing than it needs to be. I'm sure our MIA original mod won't care.

[Lowell]

Yeah, he's the obvious choice, but I think he's almost

too

scummy to be scum, and I'm far more worried about the blossoming relationship between you and Furry. One of you is getting seriously played. My theory is that you cast that vote because you're trying to get joe out today, and me tomorrow, and you want furry to be on your side as you do.

The problem with joe is (a) I don't think WC would have derailed a scumwagon to start

another

scumwason; (b) I don't think OJ would have pulled that "case" out of thin air without knowing about it already; and (c) joe's votes are (WIFOM coming) too damn scummy to be scum. His early vote on me at lynch or lose is someone who doesn't know what he's doing, not someone who is scum. His most recent vote on me is even more bizarre, as I can't see the advantage of starting a wagon on me when his partner was at two votes. If anything he'd wait for OJ to start a wagon somewhere, hope to get a town vote with her, and finish off. The leading off vote is too obvious, and again shows his inexperience, not his scumminess.

[Lowell]

SC, if you're not the scum then furry is. The fact that neither of you (particularly you) have never really even considered the other as scum is strange and more than a little worrisome when it only takes ONE safe ally for scum to win.

If anyone has a reason to be annoyed with joe still being in this game, it's me. But as I said, it's pretty clear that he's newbie, not scummy.

[Lowell]

SC scum is so obvious it's not even funny. All of a sudden I accuse SC and he's angry and now wants to vote me if not joe.

SC's plan WAS to get joe out today, me tomorrow.
SC's plan NOW is to get me out today, joe tomorrow.

If you look back at the lynches of the past few days, there's no way mastin/joe can be scum. Furry's second vote on oj looks a lot better than SC's 3rd vote, and he also gets points for being on the oj wagon BEFORE oj diverted us to a WC wagon.

[Lowell]

Sorry that was wrong. SC was 2nd on the OJ wagon, not furry... so yeah, that's a point in his favor. Still leaning SC.

[Lowell]

SC scum is so obvious it's not even funny. All of a sudden I accuse SC and he's angry and now wants to vote me if not joe.

SC's plan WAS to get joe out today, me tomorrow.
SC's plan NOW is to get me out today, joe tomorrow.

If you look back at the lynches of the past few days, there's no way mastin/joe can be scum. Furry's second vote on oj looks a lot better than SC's 3rd vote, and he also gets points for being on the oj wagon BEFORE oj diverted us to a WC wagon.

I am not angry at you accusing me. The "plan" of mine that you speak of is entertaining the possibility that joe478 is town, a position you are supporting with the unlikelihood that White Castle attempted to derail one scum wagon to start another. My buying that, which I'm willing to do, means that you have to defend yourself.

There is no way in hell I am voting the player I think is towniest, Furry, without a

VERY

good reason. Furry is likewise unwilling to vote me.

I made two requests: meta me as bussing scum (remember that I pretty much drove the Empking wagon) and convince me to vote Furry over you if I should lay off joe478. I'm not going to cry in a corner because you didn't do the first, but if you not doing the second is changing my opinion about you the least bit, it's making you scummier. You can't comply with a reasonable request.

Vote: Lowell

THIS

(bolded mine) is exactly the problem. The SC-Furry show is the reason your strategy actually works. I'm willing to entertain the possibility that furry is scum, but joe being scum just isn't very plausible. OJs ready-made case on her scummate proves that in my mind, as does (WIFOM aside) his sloppy votes yesterday.

vote SC

[Lowell]

Eh, bold tag slightly off, I'm trying to highlight the whole sentence.

[Lowell]

@SC- My case on him is that he

wasn't

on the early OJ wagon that caused her to panic and turn on her buddy WC. You and Hewitt were, and in fact one of the reasons we lynched hewitt was because he was on the "wrong" wagon (OJ) when we lynched scum (WC). That's pretty much all I see atm.

But again, I think your hesitancy to vote yesterday for OJ is a stronger strike against you, since Furry was very quick to jump on my lead and vote OJ, which I doubt he would do before trying at least to find an opposing wagon.

[Lowell]

Jesus I'm so obvtown this is insane.

SC is voting me because I'm voting him. That doesn't make him scum. SC and if necessary furry need to go next, preferably in that order. But either way we'll win.

[Lowell]

Oh crap, sorry, somehow missed that.

Get on wit yo bad selves, town.

[Lowell]

Nobody listens to me.