Mini 743: Sanity Ensues - Over!

[Azhrei]

/confirm

[Azhrei]

welcome to Quietown, shhhhhh

Vote: Azhrei

[whisper] stop following me [/whisper]

But I love you Charrat!

Vote: Tom

because Tom is such an incredibly scummy thing to call yourself.

[Azhrei]

that was a very short random voting phase.


I'm interested by all of the 'serious' votes being thrown around, some of them hypocritical, some of them reasonable.

Myself, the only person who I'm getting a scummy vibe off is Artem, but I can't really say why. It's just a gut feeling at the moment, but it has nothing much to back it up.

Unvote

[Azhrei]

Hey guys, sorry I've not been the most active lately, I've just started back at school and I'm coming up to birthday, so I'm busy as all hell. I'm gonna try and reread now, get a fix on things, and then I'll post something worthwhile.

[Azhrei]

Phew, one thread down, one to go...

First off, thanks Seb

Second, after rereading the thread, I think I've managed to get a bit of a read on most everyone. In no way is that read conclusive, but I do have reasons for it all. So, list!

1.Tom ~ Town, I think. Consistent, and he seems to be genuinely working for the town.
2.hohum ~ Scummy. He dodges questions and jumps on people for little reason, and seems somewhat hypocritical to me.
3.alexhans ~ I'm not so sure... I've seen some thing I've thought are scummy, but I also have seen some things that seem townie. I'm more in favour of town at the moment though.
4.ZEEnon ~ Newbie, but the question is, newbie town, or newbie scum. I'm not sure. (and, please, could, you, type, normally, it, screws, my, head, over)
5.Charrat ~ Doing a classic Charrat. I have no clue. (Charrat, I hate you )
6.Green Crayons ~ Townie, I'm reasonably sure. One of the few people who has been totally consistent, and seems wholly for the town.
7.Artem ~ I dunno. I'm 50/50 on Artem. Earlier on, I thought he seemed scummy, but later on, I didn't think so.
8.seb456zig ~ I'm inclined towards townie, he seems to be acting that way.
9.Magus_Stragus ~ I think townie, but I'm definitely not sure.

Now, the problem with this list is that I'm obviously wrong somewhere. I've only got 1 person who I consider to be scum, a few unsures, and then townies. And the chances of there being only 1 scum in a 10 player game are very low in my experience, and I'd expect 2-3. Also, I'm happy to offer clarification on my views.

So, which one of you is the other one? I'm intrigued. Nobody really seems to be buddying Hohum, so nothing obvious there. (Smart move, I'd say) In fact, annoyingly, I'm a little puzzled. So, while I'm still keeping my eye out for other scum, I'm gonna focus on Hohum, who I find the scummiest here. And I'd really, really like him to respond to my accusations. (Or any of the others levelled against him.)

It really starts way back on page 2.

Are you trying to cover up your scumbuddy Hohum?

OMGUS-by-proxy? You really are reaching for conclusions right now.

FoS: Artem

First, what do you even mean by OMGUS-by-proxy? Second, what the hell is a OMGUS related term even doing here? I believe others asked this of you before, and I can't find you answering it satisfactorily, if at all.

I know I'm probably going to catch a little flak for this but I'm going to go ahead and:

Unvote

Vote: Artem

Because I just can't ignore 3 scum tells in 2 pages. I was in one of your first games too, so I know that you know better.

My justification is of course:

1) A serious vote this early in day 1. Seriously? And over a stupid reason too: Screwed up quote tags. This demonstrates that you don't really care enough about scum hunting to actually pay any real attention to this thread.

FoS: alexhans for having double standards. I've been posting in other games too

2) Seriously? Tunnel vision?

Are you trying to cover up your scumbuddy Hohum?

3) He was talking within the context of a Meta read on me. How is that defending me from any onslaught of attack? My vote was RANDOM and I think people will get that.

As I believe Green Crayons points out soon after this post, you said voting for serious reasons so early on was scummy, then voted for a serious reason. I believe the term 'double-standards' has come up before ,and it most definitely applies here. Are you special, or did a few extra posts make the world of difference, hm?

@hohum: whats an IGMEOY, im guessing its a stronger version of a hos, but anyway...

@people accusing me of lurking: i hope you realise I dont spend all day on the computer, and when i am on the computer i would only check forums once. Dont you (Magus) think that voting a supposed lurker isnt smart this early in the game. Isnt it too early to even lurk? anyway...

FoS:Magus

because of trying to get me bandwagond for no real reason. Inactivity isnt a scumtell in my book, but i think posts that dont help the town are (like your one).

Could you please explain your logic on voting me so early in the game?

(i repeat myself a lot, sorry about that. Its a habit.)

1) IGMEOY means I've got my eye on you. It's like a step below FoS (IMHO)

2) It's still pretty early in D1 to be throwing votes around behind hard evidence -- and I'm all for wagoning people to get them to drop scum tells. I don't think necessarily Magus' approach is any less correct than the way it's usually been done

3) Actively lurking actually is a scum tell and that isn't a matter of opinion.

IGMEOY

It'll be interesting to see how you play from here on out.

So here, you quote someone reasonably explaining why they hadn't posted a zillion times (we do have lives) and then seem to insinuate they are lurking by saying lurking is scummy. Also, you restate your 'Serious votes are not likely at this point in the game' thing, so obviously, those few posts didn't make that much of a difference.

oh okay good,
i was about to change my vote ..

Curious, why would you changed your vote instead of simply calling me out with a FoS, HoS or IGMEOY? And how could you be certain that you made the correct choice 3 pages in to day 1?

Okay, you seem to be saying here (and you reinforce this later on) that for more minor things, some sort of mechanism that isn't a vote should be used to point it out. But then...

Well. I want to contribute but really don't find much to say... Everyone seems to explain they're votes as Pressure votes so we can't jump at them...

I'm sure if you went back and re-read the thread you could find SOMETHING to comment on. It isn't like we're still 3 pages in and just coming out of the random voting stage or something

I also don't believe that a bit of inactivity is a scum tell. Experienced

players won't go lurking if they're scum in fear of being replaced. They may add little to the conversation though.

This is exactly what you just did.

Who hasnt voted yet? Why?

See my comment above about re-reading the thread.

In short:

Vote: alexhans

Yay! More double standards. While I agree that the quoted post of Alexhans was a bit pointless and empty, I didn't really find it mega-scummy. I'd rate it at FoS level, if that. But no, you vote him for it, in direct contradiction of what you've earlier said. Huh?

Thanks for the OMGUS FOS, now I have more than just your comment to go on.

Seems a little pointless to me.

some stuff that's not relevant to what I'm saying.

You're not looking as scummy to me as you did now that I'm taking Alex's most recent posts into context. I (for whatever reason) confused you with Azi in Open 69.

-Daniel

Why the turnaround? You seemed very convinced earlier on, and you kinda just switch here, without saying much in the way of reason.

(only page 5? Kill me, please)

You have no problems flinging your vote around, yet somehow you feel that you deserve a special treatment. What's with the double standards?

It was a probing question, I ask it all the time.

Please don't answer questions on behalf of other people. You're more than welcome comment and call my motives into question AFTER he answers it.

Probing question just seems like an excuse, usable in any situation for just about anything. And then I don't quite understand why you quote yourself, and seem to tell yourself off? Please, explain.

As such,

Vote:Hohum

And that's about it. hohum, I'm really interested in your response to this (or lack of it). Everyone else, I'm intrigued by what you think as well.


Now, to my other thread...

[Azhrei]

-Stuff bout concentrating on Hohum

We all would.

Everything you ask to hohum ive mentioned it in my last posts... He is inconsistent and evasive.

I know, I thought that perhaps one big post with everything in it might make it easier for him.

-Charrat's questions-

This is are hard questions to answer... I don't see how they can help the Town so much. Im so paranoid that It'll probably give more ideas to the mafia as to how f%&/($ lost I may be about who to acusse. Through my posts you have read what points I've made about certain players (Artem and Hohum) but then I have a lot of not-really-supported suspicions about other players that I can not effectively state. And I always doubt till the last minute, suppose the most innocent looking guy was scumm?

3. Right now (This can change any second to any player) Im between Artem (My vote is there still) and Hohum.

I'm in no hurry to lynch anyone although I might had looked like I was when I asked who hadn't voted yet.

Personally, I've found Charrat's questions to be useful in the past. They tend to spark some discussion if things die down (I've played with him a few times before, he tends to post a similar set every game). The problem is, he posts them regardless of his alignment. I've seen him post them in games as both scum and town. So it's really a null-tell. Oh, and I'm pretty sure I indirectly answered them with my list.

One more thing. Reading Azhrei's List I realized that the only ones who are possible scums are Artem,Hohum and me... We 3 that fought against each other while the others contributed with more fire... Isn't the obvious choice that only we will look scummy as we are the only ones doing any actual discussing and acussing. We have to discuss further and get more participation from everybody before we reach any conclusion.

And ZEEnon, newb boy, too. And as I pointed out, my list was by no means conclusive. And you're right, most of the scummy things you and Artem did were while you fought. And yes, I agree with you, moar discussion, even if I'm not the best myself.

Well it's obvious that I'm going to go down in flames.

I've already explained why I called Artem's move an OMGUS. I've tried to probe for information but every question I ask gets picked apart before it can get answered. There's scum on my wagon, methinks.

I stand by my reasoning for flip-flopping on Artem. It's too early in the game to have any concrete suspicions, that's what makes it so easy for me to abandon my initial suspicions.

I checked that explanation, and I don't really find it satisfactory. And yes, there probably is scum on your wagon somewhere, or will be soon. Regardless of your alignment, it'd be a stupid partner (or partners, as the case may be) that didn't recognize that the town was leaning towards you being scum already.

And you really haven't answered much else I (and others) have said. I'd suggest perhaps quoting my post, because I think it contains most of the arguments against you, and answering each accusation. But you know, that's just what I think.

[Azhrei]

although i enjoy this game the most out of my current games,
some of you can be really ANNOYING at times .

4.ZEEnon ~ Newbie, but the question is, newbie town, or newbie scum. I'm not sure. (and, please, could, you, type, normally, it, screws, my, head, over)

And ZEEnon, newb boy, too.

What does this means? I hope youre not playing the aforementioned card

@ Azhrei, there was no reason to include
the word newbie .. if that affects your vote
then you are clearly misguided .
if i never stated i was new to this,
you would never be able to tell .
can you guys get over this ?
did i ask for anyone to go easy on me ? no .
i merely stated a fact .
i don't think you are reading carefully
enough, or you are mafia becaaaaause
i mentioned this fact a LONG time ago :

this is my first game too, Magus_Stragus,
but you don't see me announcing it to the world ..
oh wait, I guess i just did .

whether or not i'm new doesn't
affect my ability to play the game.
normally it COULD, but i played
so much in real life, the only difference
is that i had to learn the acronyms,
which i easily did through the wiki .

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying entirely, person-who-types-annoyingly. I'd have been calling you newbie regardless of whether or not you'd said it, because that's how you're acting. I'm calling you newbie, because you're acting like one. It doesn't influence my vote at all, because I'm still trying to figure out what type of newbie you're acting like.

[Azhrei]

God, I hate screwy doctor sanities...

If we do have multiple doctors with different sanities, then that'll become rather obvious after N1. If we have multiple cops with different sanities, then that won't be so obvious. So basically, if anyone out there is either of those power roles, be very careful. If you're a doc, you could get yourself or someone else killed if you aren't careful. If you're a cop, don't treat your results as gospel, because they could be wrong. No pressure though

Oh, and ZEEnon, thank you, so, so much. I was getting to the point where I'd have tried to get you lynched because of your posting. It was just way, way to bad to read.

[Azhrei]

I checked that explanation, and I don't really find it satisfactory. And yes, there probably is scum on your wagon somewhere, or will be soon. Regardless of your alignment, it'd be a stupid partner (or partners, as the case may be) that didn't recognize that the town was leaning towards you being scum already.

And you really haven't answered much else I (and others) have said. I'd suggest perhaps quoting my post, because I think it contains most of the arguments against you, and answering each accusation. But you know, that's just what I think.

I have attempted to answer your questions, along with everyone else's. You reject my explanations. It's not going to matter what I say to you, so why bother trying? You're just going to sit there and twist and contort my posts until they mean exactly what YOU want them to mean -- I'm scum.

Your attempts haven't been obvious to me, sorry. Please quote them. (Quotes are king and god) I, myself, am quite happy to read your explanations. And I hate it when people say I twist things, because I try my best not to. And no, I'm not convinced you're scum, you're just the person I consider to be scummiest so far. If you provide me with decent why you aren't scum, I will most likely unvote, and go my merry way scumhunting elsewhere, and keep my eye on you. Until then, I'm gonna keep voting you.

Fair enough?

[Azhrei]

I checked that explanation, and I don't really find it satisfactory. And yes, there probably is scum on your wagon somewhere, or will be soon. Regardless of your alignment, it'd be a stupid partner (or partners, as the case may be) that didn't recognize that the town was leaning towards you being scum already.

And you really haven't answered much else I (and others) have said. I'd suggest perhaps quoting my post, because I think it contains most of the arguments against you, and answering each accusation. But you know, that's just what I think.

I have attempted to answer your questions, along with everyone else's. You reject my explanations. It's not going to matter what I say to you, so why bother trying? You're just going to sit there and twist and contort my posts until they mean exactly what YOU want them to mean -- I'm scum.

Your attempts haven't been obvious to me, sorry. Please quote them. (Quotes are king and god) I, myself, am quite happy to read your explanations. And I hate it when people say I twist things, because I try my best not to. And no,

I'm not convinced you're scum

, you're just the person I consider to be scummiest so far. If you provide me with decent why you aren't scum, I will most likely unvote, and go my merry way scumhunting elsewhere, and keep my eye on you. Until then, I'm gonna keep voting you.

Fair enough?

You've already rejected most of what I've had to say outright. I know you'll probably dismiss this reply as evasive too. It's alright -- keep wagoning me -- lynch me. I don't mind taking one for the team. That way when I flip everyone will see you for what you really are: opportunistic and scummy.

7 pages into day 1?

And you're already convinced?

*facepalm*

*sigh*

Can't you read? I said that I wasn't convinced. It's right there. Come on? If you wanna convince me, continue doing as you do. And oh shit, did I just say you were on the track to me being convinced you're scum? Oh noes! I must be scum.

Seriously people, just because someone finds you suspicious

DOES NOT

mean that they are scum. Even townies are fallible! I know its a shock, but really, it's true.


And then this post is really interesting...

I -text-

-text-

-text-

-text-

no offense hohum, i think you seem genuine, (although i'm really gullible) but the only reason i haven't switched my vote to you is because you made your account on my birthday. i think it's in your best interests to defend/ explain yourself. please don't give up. it kind of ruins the game and makes us all feel sort of depressed when you just give yourself up like that. also putting Azhrei on the spot like that can only 'cause trouble. i've been in a game where everyone was completely against me, but i defended myself calmy, and we eventually lynched the real scum. by giving up like that, you only give us all the more reason to suspect you. (haha this post sounds so emotional, sorry it seems that way)

A) I'm not "just giving up." I'm making a sacrifice in order to out scum. One townie for one scum is a fair trade. If we can do that on a daily basis, we win and scum goes home.

B) I've already answered every question that everyone has asked of me. The only reason you and Azhrei can't see that is because you're both reading selectively. You've dismissed the answers I've given you and have defaulted back into this mode of asking your questions over and over again.

Artem will probably chime in and push for me to be wagoned some more. I truly believe he's honestly trying to be helpful though.

(-text-s are there to make this post a tad shorter, you can read the other posts above, it's an extension of the same quote wall.)

I really like how you make yourself out to be a martyr here, it's almost as if you're trying to insinuate that you're a great townie, and gonna take one for the team. Subtle, really.

And again, I repeat. If you really have answered every question, quote the answer, and the question its directed at. I read the thread, and I really couldn't find it. If I really have missed it, show me, and I'll be much happier. Until then, I assume you're lying. And selective reading? ZEEnon I don't know about, but I read the whole thread, and I did my best not to miss anything. Again, if I have, QUOTE IT.


Understand? Quotes. Wonderful, they are. And this time, read everything, would you.

[Azhrei]

i think Azhrei is innocent so far,
since he didn't really react when Charrat said:

3. I would choose to lynch the least active or contributory player, probably Azhrei.

not that it means anything, but unless those two are working together, it makes them slightly less suspicious to me. (even though Azhrei is on my bad side. sorry, i'm honest)

... I know its gonna sound kinda odd picking apart your reasoning for finding me townie, but I have to. Just because I didn't respond to someone saying something that was obviously true does NOT mean I am town. I was easily the least active and contributory player at the time, and I would've lynched me if I had nobody better. 'sides, I'm used to having Charrat try to get me killed

oh alright .

when i said this i was kind of sick of reading your posts, so let me respond properly:

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying entirely, person-who-types-annoyingly. I'd have been calling you newbie regardless of whether or not you'd said it, because that's how you're acting. I'm calling you newbie, because you're acting like one. It doesn't influence my vote at all, because I'm still trying to figure out what type of newbie you're acting like.

actually, you wouldn't have. i can guarantee you,

100%

, if i never mentioned that i was new, you would NOT be calling me a newbie. be honest. i'm positive about this.

*sigh* This part reflects the reasons I've been calling you newbie, ironically. Now, even had you not mentioned it, and I hadn't noticed the obviously newbie way you're playing, then there was also this wonderful thing called a join date. You know, the little thing underneath your avvy? Yeah, it says you joined just recently, and that instantly indicates 'noob'. And I'd kinda pegged it anyway. Oh, and, being sick of reading is never an excuse.

Any roads, back to the game... <other boring stuff>

haha i've noticed this for a while. it's not really relevant, but you meant

ways

, right? just to clarifiy, because it confused me for a couple seconds.

Magus has already said english is not her first language, so yeah. But the fact you put in <other boring stuff> for the rest of her post intrigues me. There is no such thing as bring stuff in this game. There may be unimportant stuff, but never boring.This indicates a lack of motivation for the game, and no small amount of laziness. And I think someone else mentioned that earlier on.

I also find it interesting you've chosen not to comment upon the recent Seb case beyond that little one line about wondering why he never replied.

Speaking of the Seb case, I'm finding myself more inclined towards magus' arguments than seb's.

Well, my opinion regarding seb's posts is the following: scum. With each post you confirm even more my suspicious. Here's why:

And also, i want my own reasons because using someone elses reasons is stupid.

That means that you will unlike vote for someone. It's not that you are using other people reasons, it's that you are agreeing with other people reasons. Not all players are master detectives that can see through other people lies. It's more likely that someone spot out a lie or fall in a statement and the rest of players agree with his/her finding, than all players finding different suspicious arguements. For me, you're just looking for a reason to not state your opinion about the lynch, like if you wanted to pass out of the radar.

The bad thing about my position now is that either...

he flips town and i am the accused hammerer because i voted last

he flips scum and you ask each other "how to phuck did he know that?"

As Alex said, it's just Day I. Whatever you hammer townie or mafia shouldn't be that trascendent. I mean, it's important, but like you, whatever the result of the lynch is, we are all going to question all the people who voted for it, and the people who didn't vote for it; not just the one that did the hammer. But you, you're like trying too hard to not call attention, to not be suspicious... Why would a townie try so hard for that? Your reasons to not vote for him are mainly not because you find/don't find him suspicious, rather because you don't want to draw more attention to yourself. And that for me, is more than enough scumtell.

Pretty much, in short, I agree with this sentiment. I can't see any glaring issues with it, and Magus' logic seems to be strong.

The reason im trying to not call attention is because in all my other games i called attention and i was lynched because of it. (ive never been NKed).

Ok, I can see that, but I have no way of verifying it (easily, yes, I'm lazy), and I don't completely buy it anyway.

everyone, for now just picture me as a vanilla townie (as aposed like possible scum). Look at how Magus keeps his vote on me. Isn't it a little strange that Magus is trying so hard to find me scum when Hohum is so plainly acting scummie.

Ooh, that's nice, trying to pass the heat off on Hohum. Now, I wouldn't say Hohum is acting obviously scummy, while he was previously the scummiest player in my opinion, now I'm not so sure.

Theories:
1. Hohum and Magus are both scum with Magus trying to get everyone to wagon me.
2.Magus is a vanilla townie that finds me suspitious for my seemingly inconsistant play. (it's actually called learning)
3. Magus is a lone scum and is getting me because he/she thinks im a power role.
4. Magus is a power role that wants to kill me for some reason (i doubt this theory very much)
5. Hohum is scum and has tricked Magus into making he (magus) believe that he(hohum) is town. Magus then looks for suspcious play by all nonHohums.
6. ZEEnon is scum and noone else can see that

(tell me which theories sound like they could be right)
(when reading the theories, think of me as Vanilla Town)[/list]

You forgot the "Seb is scum, magus made a good catch" set of theories. Personally, I'm not sure which side of things it is, but I feel that Magus at the very least is more likely townie.

FOS: Seb

I'm gonna keep my eye on you and see what you say soon.

FOS: ZEE

I'm starting to find you anti-town at the very least, and seb is right, with your playstyle, I doubt you'll make it to endgame.

[Azhrei]

Ah bugger it, screwed the quotes up.

"

oh alright .

when i said this i was kind of sick of reading your posts, so let me respond properly:

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying entirely, person-who-types-annoyingly. I'd have been calling you newbie regardless of whether or not you'd said it, because that's how you're acting. I'm calling you newbie, because you're acting like one. It doesn't influence my vote at all, because I'm still trying to figure out what type of newbie you're acting like.

ctually, you wouldn't have. i can guarantee you, 100%, if i never mentioned that i was new, you would NOT be calling me a newbie. be honest. i'm positive about this.

*sigh* This part reflects the reasons I've been calling you newbie, ironically. Now, even had you not mentioned it, and I hadn't noticed the obviously newbie way you're playing, then there was also this wonderful thing called a join date. You know, the little thing underneath your avvy? Yeah, it says you joined just recently, and that instantly indicates 'noob'. And I'd kinda pegged it anyway. Oh, and, being sick of reading is never an excuse."


Is how it should've looked.

[Azhrei]

we kinda figured that, but anyway...

everyone, for now just picture me as a vanilla townie (as aposed like possible scum). Look at how Magus keeps his vote on me. Isn't it a little strange that Magus is trying so hard to find me scum when Hohum is so plainly acting scummie.

Ooh, that's nice, trying to pass the heat off on Hohum. Now, I wouldn't say Hohum is acting obviously scummy, while he was previously the scummiest player in my opinion, now I'm not so sure.

You're right, i shouldnt just pass the heat to Hohum. By "plainly acting scummie" i guess i meant "everyone else seems to think he is obv scum".

Just on a side note, you wouldn't realise how many times I've seen people not notice ballsed quote tags, and go off on a tangent due to that, as such, I thought it best to point that out.

As to the rest... I'm a tad confused. You say you shouldn't pass the heat onto hohum, yet... You don't say you didn't try. And then you try and explain your 'obv scum' comment erroneously. Hohum is not obv scum to everyone, and a few people believe him to be town.

@Azhrei: I dont think you are scum but I think you are a very lazy person

I'm intrigued, why do you call me lazy, and why don't you think I'm scum? I am lazy, but I'd like to know why you think so.

@ZEE: I think you are a very poor strategy player and should play newbie games before you try another one of these "real" games.

True, but it seems a tad hypocritical, considering your later '@'

@Hohum: I don't find you scummie realy, but

IGMEOY

Why?

@person saying FoSes suck: YOU SUCK!

Hear hear.

@Azhrei (again): i didnt lie about me never being NKed. in fact, this is my third game (ZOMFG, a card) but yeah. It would have been more believable if i mentioned that before

I don't doubt you've never been NKed, but I still don't have any way of verifying the reasons behind your lynching without reading multiple other threads (not happening)

@scum:i dislike you ingame but ooc you are playing realy well. and also, are you ZEE?

This is a really odd comment. WHy are the scum playing so well? Why do you ask such a loaded question in ZEE's direction?

@everyone who read all of these: y did you waste your time with all of them? it seems pretty pointless to read them all

Waste of time? Hardly. These have been very interesting

@people that have questions towards me: ask them

Just did

he also quite obviously tried to fish for my role.

Just trying to see if you're mafia. How can that be scummie?

Because you could be mafia rolefishing for power roles, and we don't know which way it is. That's why its scummy.

Honestly, my impression of this post is the same as Alexhan's. Scum trying the best they can to pass the heat anywhere.

---

B) I've already answered every question that everyone has asked of me. The only reason you and Azhrei can't see that is because you're both reading selectively. You've dismissed the answers I've given you and have defaulted back into this mode of asking your questions over and over again.

blol. Either I'm blind or you're a liar. Either is fine by me, just point me out to your response and I'll apologize. Or keep my vote where it is.

Oh good, I'm not the only one who 'missed' his answers. I was beginning to doubt myself there. You've just reaffirmed my suspicions. Speaking of hohum, where is that guy? You ain't dead yet Hohum.

---

I also find it interesting you've chosen not to comment upon the recent Seb case beyond that little one line about wondering why he never replied.

i have no idea what the hell you are talking about. it's highly likely that i missed it, so please inform me.

So, one post, you claim not to know what I'm talking about when I adress the recent seb case. Then...

people may view this as me voting him just because Charrat has, but i was just about to place my votes regardless ..

Vote: seb456zig

the fact that he seemingly knows that i'm going to be killed is suspicious to me. not only that but he tries to makes everyone picture him as a vanilla townie. he also says to picture him as one, which means that he thinks we don't view him as one. i don't think i really thought of him seriously as mafia but now that he has said that, and by re-reading his posts, i don't know why i didn't see it before. he also quite obviously tried to fish for my role.

So, I'm confused. Is this your first game (so you wouldn't be expecting roles beyond a cop) or are you an experienced mafia player who has real-life mafia experience (and so roles beyond simply a cop wouldn't be out of the extraordinary)? I don't see how your two quotes match up.

i have real-life mafia experience with only townies and mafia. does that match up for you?

... You talk about the Seb case! And not only talk, you vote! So... Yeah. Wtf?

And really, your reasons for voting are crap. It's basically a dressed up OMGUS. Your main reason really seems to be he thinks you won't make it to endgame. (Honestly, I don't think you will either) The rest really just seems to be piggybacking off Charrat and GC. And then that last comment... 'does that match up for you?' fuuuuck. Could you sound any scummier, you seem to be trying to make up whatever you think he will believe.

the only interaction between me and Charrat are that we both are voting for you

This is the puppy & master pairup. You follow whatever Charrat tells you to do because he is more experienced than you.

@everyone: Dead people can speak. Just watch what they have said in previous posts (i know noone is dead yet, but i think this day is comming to a close)

He actually does make a valid point here, provided that he's town Otherwise, he's just screwing with our minds.

@everyone: Dead people can speak. Just watch what they have said in previous posts (i know noone is dead yet, but i think this day is comming to a close)

just because some crazy dead person said that they suspected so-and-so doesn't mean that so-and-so is scum. also, i think this day is far from over, you are over-reacting .. there are only four votes on you. that means that you need two more votes. somebody is most likely going to find a flaw with one of the people that are voting you, (most likely me) and then votes will shift once again .

Best point you've made yet! That said, I can understand where Seb is coming from, as you can essentially trust dead townies as being honest about their suspicions, but you still can't treat them as gospel.

[Azhrei]

My opinion on the current situation? Hohum should start playing properly or be replaced. Seriously man, you ain't doing anything for yourself by not answering mine (and others') questions.

Oh, and:

and Azhrei seems to be defending you really well.

[to Seb]

You misunderstand me completely. Again. I've not defended Seb at all. I've merely pointed out where you've done things wrong, and if you look, where he has as well. In your whole argument thingy, I've not really liked either side. That said, you have started posting a heap better lately.

-quote wall to do with ZEEnon actin' funny about the Seb case in its early stages-

you said something about a

"little one line about wondering why he never replied"

, which confused me, as i have no idea which little one line (seems to me you are trying to belittle my question)

Ya should be clearer 'bout ya questions. I assumed you meant that you didn't know about the Seb case, as that was how it was worded. As to my "little one line" reference, I was talking about the fact that the only time you mentioned Seb in a particular post of yours, was just one little line about how he hadn't answered a question of yours.

And really, your reasons for voting are

crap

. It's basically a dressed up OMGUS. Your main reason really seems to be he thinks you won't make it to endgame. (Honestly, I don't think you will either) The rest really just seems to be piggybacking off Charrat and GC. And then that last comment... 'does that match up for you?' fuuuuck. Could you sound any scummier, you seem to be trying to make up whatever you think he will believe.

calling anyone's reasons for voting

that

should never be done. yes, some people's reasons don't make sense. yes, some people's reasons are based on false premises. yes, some people's reasons don't make sense at all. but never should you take this game so seriously that you insult another person's beliefs. continuing on.. it was not an OMGUS. i did not vote for him for the sole reason that he voted for me. i voted for him because i personally believe that he is a mafia member. i think that everyone should vote that way. they should vote for someone because they personally believe it, not because other people are starting to think that way, as it appears seb456zig is. he says so-and-so seems suspicious and scummy, yet he leaves his vote on me. not that i care but everytime i see someone else being accused of something, i see seb456zig agree with them, saying: "oh i thought that too but i didn't want to say anything" basically.

Wow. Thanks ZEE. You actually gave me some decent reasons for voting the guy. Now, I wasn't insulting your beliefs, I was insulting your reasoning. The belief that Seb is scum is completely reasonable, and I can understand it. However, the reasons you gave for your belief originally weren't all that great, and as I said, really did seem like a dressed up OMGUS. Now, the reasons you've just given there are valid, and I appreciate them.


And that's about it for me.

[Azhrei]

Woah. That post seems like that kid that tries to make friends so hard, but can't seem to get any. Then he ends up seeming desperate.Azhrei is hurting my brain. I can't stop thinking of him as scum now. I think I should

Unvote:Zee

because I'm not sure about a lot of things. Why {250} seems scummie: first part is just continuation of what everyone else is saying. Next part he says he wasn't defending me. He says this because I'm a ship that he knows is gonna sink. If Zee was the sinking ship he would agree with the post, no doubt about it. The rest of it is just sucking up to Zee. In short,

FoS:Azhrei

What the hell? I said I wasn't defending you, because I wasn't. I never said anything about you being a ship that I knew was going down. And I'd not have said I was defending you even if ZEE was looking to be losing that argument. Talk about blatant misrepresentation. Here, lets have a look at my post.

and Azhrei seems to be defending you really well.

[to Seb]

You misunderstand me completely. Again. I've not defended Seb at all. I've merely pointed out where you've done things wrong, and if you look, where he has as well. In your whole argument thingy, I've not really liked either side. That said, you have started posting a heap better lately.

Hm... Where's the bit where I say you're a sinking ship? I don't see it. I say that I don't really like either side, and that ZEE is posting better, but not that you're stuffed.


You know, the only good reason I can think of for that post is you're scum, and you want to associate me with you, thinking that you're going down, and hoping to make me look like your scumbussy so that I'll get lynched tomorrow.

Problem is, you're too crap at being scum to even pull that one off properly. Ever heard of subtlety?

[Azhrei]

ZEEnon, only stupid scum defend their partners, really. You should always try and keep your distance from your partners when you're scum.


Well, going by Hohum's latest posts... I'm starting to think he really believes that he has answered all the questions he should have. While I don't agree, I do find him less scummy for it.

Seb's latest posts, however, are not nearly so absolving. In fact, they're rather damning. But I don't wanna hammer just yet.

Basically, Seb, any last words? Wanna perhaps roleclaim? Anything ya wanna say that will magically make you super-townie?

Unvote

[Azhrei]

Well, that answers one of my questions. We do have at least cop with a stuffy sanity. I'd be guessing that there's more.

Also, I'm very happy sanity is revealed on death, as that could've gotten very confusing. (thanks mod! )

[Azhrei]

SEB456ZIG IS TOWN? if i seen the roleclaim and the birthday bit, i would have unvoted. i'm kind of a sentimental person, haha.
darn, i didn't even suspect alexhans, so his death doesn't help at all.
about the nightkill, i don't mind since the naive cop was exactly like a townsperson, if not worse.

umm... In all honesty, the roleclaim was not particularly absolving (even though it was true) and the birthday thing, while unfortunate, was not a good reason to unvote someone.

seb456zig (6): Magus_Stragus, alexhans, Charrat, ZEEnon, Zerophear, Green crayons

so with alexhans dead, and since i know my role, here is who i suspect could possibly be the mafia:

Magus_Stragus

- he voted seb456zig far in the beginning, so i doubt that he is scum. can't be too sure though .

Charrat

- i feel is the most suspicious player to me so far. seems to lurk very smoothly, meaning that he posts rarely and when he does, it doesn't really provide any of his views on the game, just tries to make it seem like he is contributing. i'm very uneasy about him. :\

Zer0ph34r

- NO IDEA why he would claim cop. i think it's fake. like seriously, what kind of person would claim? i don't see how it benefits. mafia won't kill you since they know you might be getting wrong results anyways. even if you get right results, nobody can tell if they are true or not. therefore, i'm going to be watching you closely.

Green Crayons

- although a final hammer vote was not needed, he said that no-lynch was a bad thing. i would have unvoted seb456zig if i seen his plea about his birthday, but unfortunately i woke up too late to stop Green Crayons from hammering. there was no need to hammer because deadline was almost over, but perhaps he wanted to make sure that nobody would change votes last minute, as i would have.

---

Uhhhhhh. One bandwagon resulting in a mislynch does not really allow for any calling of "SCUM!" That said, you do make some very nice points about Charrat, and Zero (I'll address them later). Your point on GC, on the other hand, really doesn't do much for me. You keep saying how you would've unvoted. Why?

ZEEnon, only stupid scum defend their partners, really. You should always try and keep your distance from your partners when you're scum.

this quote seems forced and really suspicious to me .

...huh? Why is it suspicious?

---

i wouldn't be surprised if Artem and hohum were both townspeople that just think that each other is scum. i'm not going to pay attention to those two for now since i'm more suspicious of the players i mentioned above.

ALWAYS pay attention, even if you don't focus on certain players.


ZEE, I'm really starting to find you anti-town. The whole post where you say you were going to unvote Seb reeks of you trying to absolve yourself from voting him. It's like you're trying to say "Me, kill him? No, never! I was going to pull the knife outta his guts when I woke up, really!" That whole thing gives em a really bad vibe.

---

Hohum... I honestly think you're the scummier of the two (you and artem) who are fighting today. I'm very happy that you're being active again though.

Now, I know you're convinced that you've answered all the questions posed to you, but I still can't find the answers. Now, I'm about to quote one of my posts from yesterday that contains most of the questions I want answered. I'd appreciate it a lot if you would quote it, and answer all the questions. Or, if you want, quote your original answers. Work for you?

Are you trying to cover up your scumbuddy Hohum?

OMGUS-by-proxy? You really are reaching for conclusions right now.

FoS: Artem

First, what do you even mean by OMGUS-by-proxy? Second, what the hell is a OMGUS related term even doing here? I believe others asked this of you before, and I can't find you answering it satisfactorily, if at all.

I know I'm probably going to catch a little flak for this but I'm going to go ahead and:

Unvote

Vote: Artem

Because I just can't ignore 3 scum tells in 2 pages. I was in one of your first games too, so I know that you know better.

My justification is of course:

1) A serious vote this early in day 1. Seriously? And over a stupid reason too: Screwed up quote tags. This demonstrates that you don't really care enough about scum hunting to actually pay any real attention to this thread.

FoS: alexhans for having double standards. I've been posting in other games too

2) Seriously? Tunnel vision?

Are you trying to cover up your scumbuddy Hohum?

3) He was talking within the context of a Meta read on me. How is that defending me from any onslaught of attack? My vote was RANDOM and I think people will get that.

As I believe Green Crayons points out soon after this post, you said voting for serious reasons so early on was scummy, then voted for a serious reason. I believe the term 'double-standards' has come up before ,and it most definitely applies here. Are you special, or did a few extra posts make the world of difference, hm?

@hohum: whats an IGMEOY, im guessing its a stronger version of a hos, but anyway...

@people accusing me of lurking: i hope you realise I dont spend all day on the computer, and when i am on the computer i would only check forums once. Dont you (Magus) think that voting a supposed lurker isnt smart this early in the game. Isnt it too early to even lurk? anyway...

FoS:Magus

because of trying to get me bandwagond for no real reason. Inactivity isnt a scumtell in my book, but i think posts that dont help the town are (like your one).

Could you please explain your logic on voting me so early in the game?

(i repeat myself a lot, sorry about that. Its a habit.)

1) IGMEOY means I've got my eye on you. It's like a step below FoS (IMHO)

2) It's still pretty early in D1 to be throwing votes around behind hard evidence -- and I'm all for wagoning people to get them to drop scum tells. I don't think necessarily Magus' approach is any less correct than the way it's usually been done

3) Actively lurking actually is a scum tell and that isn't a matter of opinion.

IGMEOY

It'll be interesting to see how you play from here on out.

So here, you quote someone reasonably explaining why they hadn't posted a zillion times (we do have lives) and then seem to insinuate they are lurking by saying lurking is scummy. Also, you restate your 'Serious votes are not likely at this point in the game' thing, so obviously, those few posts didn't make that much of a difference.

oh okay good,
i was about to change my vote ..

Curious, why would you changed your vote instead of simply calling me out with a FoS, HoS or IGMEOY? And how could you be certain that you made the correct choice 3 pages in to day 1?

Okay, you seem to be saying here (and you reinforce this later on) that for more minor things, some sort of mechanism that isn't a vote should be used to point it out. But then...

Well. I want to contribute but really don't find much to say... Everyone seems to explain they're votes as Pressure votes so we can't jump at them...

I'm sure if you went back and re-read the thread you could find SOMETHING to comment on. It isn't like we're still 3 pages in and just coming out of the random voting stage or something

I also don't believe that a bit of inactivity is a scum tell. Experienced

players won't go lurking if they're scum in fear of being replaced. They may add little to the conversation though.

This is exactly what you just did.

Who hasnt voted yet? Why?

See my comment above about re-reading the thread.

In short:

Vote: alexhans

Yay! More double standards. While I agree that the quoted post of Alexhans was a bit pointless and empty, I didn't really find it mega-scummy. I'd rate it at FoS level, if that. But no, you vote him for it, in direct contradiction of what you've earlier said. Huh?

Thanks for the OMGUS FOS, now I have more than just your comment to go on.

Seems a little pointless to me.

some stuff that's not relevant to what I'm saying.

You're not looking as scummy to me as you did now that I'm taking Alex's most recent posts into context. I (for whatever reason) confused you with Azi in Open 69.

-Daniel

Why the turnaround? You seemed very convinced earlier on, and you kinda just switch here, without saying much in the way of reason.

(only page 5? Kill me, please)

You have no problems flinging your vote around, yet somehow you feel that you deserve a special treatment. What's with the double standards?

It was a probing question, I ask it all the time.

Please don't answer questions on behalf of other people. You're more than welcome comment and call my motives into question AFTER he answers it.

Probing question just seems like an excuse, usable in any situation for just about anything. And then I don't quite understand why you quote yourself, and seem to tell yourself off? Please, explain.

There, that's what I'd like answered. I know it's rather large, but still, when you have time, please answer.

---

Charrat. You really are good at the whole lurking thing aren't ya? You don't really say much, but then you never do. However, I think this game's posting is slightly more reminiscent of when I've seen you play as scum. I can;'t say this conclusively, but nontheless, IGMEOY.

---

Zero... Why in hell did ya claim? Nobody was asking for it, and we can't trust your results anyway, because until you die, we don't know your sanity. Silly move. I think I believe the cop claim for now, but still... Gahh

And that's about it, yet another long post

[Azhrei]

I am just a cop. Yeah, my claiming to be mafia in the past is not going to help this argument, but here we go... Not a paranoid or insane cop, just my strategy, so that makes you wrong in 3 ways, Charrat. If me and Charrat were mafia, why would I tell everyone that I think he's scum? Would that not hurt me? So, my vote is already casted.

Vote: Charrat

Even if you do lynch me, trust me, I've never lied to the town before in all of my games, lynch Charrat first so you know I am telling the truth.

*sigh*

Zero, it doesn't matter if you are a cop, because even if you are, we can't trust your investigation results until you die... We don't know if you're sane or not.

Hm, a thought just struck me, I'm assuming everyone knows what the normal sanities are. If not, read this and this.

[Azhrei]

I'd rather just ignore his claim for now, and let him investigate a few more people. We can always lynch him later, and we'll get a bit more out of it than we would now.

[Azhrei]

His sanity flip would confirm charrat's alignment.

It won't if he is a paranoid cop and only gets guilty results.

Always an issue

Charrat. You really are good at the whole lurking thing aren't ya? You don't really say much, but then you never do. However, I think this game's posting is slightly more reminiscent of when I've seen you play as scum. I can;'t say this conclusively, but nontheless, IGMEOY.

I don't lurk if by lurking you mean that I purposefully post infrequently in order not to draw attention to myself. I generally only post when I have something meaningful to say, and I'll post plenty if I do. I think its fair to say that is the way I played in our previous games.

It is the same way you usally play, I know, but it does come off as sorta lurky, is all.

what makes you think that they're going to NK him? Especially if his sanity is in question.

That's the beauty of it. If the mafia NK him, we get his sanity confirmed pro bono, and if they don't, he gets to investigate more people, and we can lynch him later and confirm it all.

There is also the possibility that someone he investigates will get killed, and then we will get an idea of his sanity, however not confirm it.

Oh, and you haven't even acknoweledged my post yet. And I find it odd you've jumped on him so quickly. If you don't give me some answers soon, I'm just gonna try and get you lynched. In other words, last chance.

[Azhrei]

Looking forward to Green Crayons finding more time to comment on the earlier happenings in the day.

I'm looking forward to hohum actually acknowledging my existence in this game.

As am I... I've had enough waiting, perhaps a vote will get him to talk.

Vote:Hohum

---

I say it not for the players in this thread, but for seb456zig if he is reading. I really would have unvoted, and I want him to know that.

However much you say that, I find it very hard to believe.

ZEEnon, only stupid scum defend their partners, really. You should always try and keep your distance from your partners when you're scum.

this quote seems forced and really suspicious to me .

...huh? Why is it suspicious?

It seems to me like you are describing yourself. I can't explain exactly, but it just comes off as a suspicious post.

Ah, ok, I can see where you're coming from there. In a sense, you're right, I was describing myself, but not in this game. I have been scum before (*shock*) and I generally tried to stay away from my partners. All that said, no, I'm not scum in this game, but I know you don't know if that's true.

[Azhrei]

Aanyone?

[Azhrei]

Basically, ym reasons are the same as GC's and Artems for suspecting Hohum. Please read my earlier posts for more clarification.

As it is, I'm

STILL

waiting for him to acknowledge my questions.

[Azhrei]

Hohum... You continue to ignore my existence, and Green Crayons. It's like anyone who you don't like is just non-existent. It's really peeing me off. I've tried to be polite, and you've continued to ignore me. You're an annoying player, and even if you aren't scum, you're so anti-town that you may as well be.

ZEEnon... What the hell? You actually unvoted the guy? What decent reason did he give? I don't see it.

Can someone just hammer and get this over with?

Oh, and

Mod

, half of those prods really weren't necessary, GC, and I think a couple of the others had posted not long before you prodded them. Don't tell us off

[Azhrei]

Actually, with the cop, they were unlucky, as he was naive. It's better for the town if he is dead, as his investigations woulda screwed us over.

As for Zero, I'd be guessing (provided you are a cop) that they have a roleblocker and have roleblocked you.

[Azhrei]

Because we don't know whether you're actually a cop, and they would also be able to guess your sanity, as they would know the alignment of Charrat, and it is entirely possible that they would not want to risk his exposure as scum, if your result was accurate.

And I'm all for a massclaim.

[Azhrei]

GC, what were your results? And on who?

[Azhrei]

Charrat, he can't be insane, as he got the correct result for Hohum. He's either paranoid or insane.

[Azhrei]

EBWOP: I meant 'paranoid or sane'

[Azhrei]

Want me to claim now? Or should we wait for Charrat?

[Azhrei]

I'm a townie. So yeah, nothing to add action wise >_>

---

Setup-wise, I'd say we have 2 townies (myself and seb), 1 miller (hohum), 2 scum, 3 cops (alex and ???) and 2 docs (Zee and ???). That's just my guess at things.

Claim-wise we have:

Alive:
1. Zer0ph34r - Cop (D2)
5. Charrat - Doc (D3)
6. Green Crayons - Cop (D3)
7. Artem - Doc (D3)
9. Shinnen_no_Me - Cop (D3)
10. Azhrei - Townie (D3)

and then confirmed roles:

Dead:
8. seb456zig, a townie - lynched D1
3. alexhans, a naive cop - killed N1
2. hohum, a miller - lynched D2
3. Zeenon, a doc - killed N2

which gives us 2 townies, 1 miller, 4 cops and 3 docs.

I'd guess that one of our docs and one of our cops is scum. Which ones is the question.

---

Claimed Actions

Shinn

Hohum - Guilty
Green Crayons - Guilty

Zero

Charrat - Guilty

Green Crayons

Shinn - Innocent
Charrat - Guilty

Artem

Protect Charrat x 2

Charrat

Protect Artem
Protect Zero

hey, Artem, why is one of each sanity not possible? I can't see it

Now, going along the line of 3 cops, and knowing alex was Naive, I'd guess we'd have a naive, a paranoid, and a sane/insane. Definitely not an insane and a sane though.

I'd also guess that the doctors are just normal, as the mod has said she revealed sanities upon death.

Of the cops, I believe that Green Crayons and Zero are most likely to be what they say they are. GC because he has struck me as townie the whole game through, and he is the only one who has claimed an innocent

AND

a guilty result. Zero because he claimed day 2, and his reaction to our reaction to said claim. Now if I'm right about that, it means that GC is insane (as Shinn would be scum) and that Charrat is being truthful. And following that, it would mean that Artem is our other scum.

In all of the above, Zero is that paranoid cop.

What does everyone else think?

[Azhrei]

He's stated what he thinks you've done, and he's asking if he is correct in his interpretation.

[Azhrei]

Lots of very interesting reading!

Now, going along the line of 3 cops, and knowing alex was Naive, I'd guess we'd have a naive, a paranoid, and a sane/insane. Definitely not an insane and a sane though.

Why not an insane and a sane?

Well, first off, there's no evidence from the claims to suggest that, and then I just prefer that sort of setup It makes more sense to me.

I'd also guess that the doctors are just normal, as the mod has said she revealed sanities upon death.

I can't remember exactly what spring said, but is it possible that he was asked specifically about cops, or did he imply that all sanities would be revealed? I find it hard to imagine that we have 2 or 3 doctors in this game and they are proper doctors, that might be pretty unbalanced for the mafia.

From memory, I believe she said that sanities were revealed, and didn't specify that it was only cops. I'll try and find the post later. Also, perhaps Zee was a normal doc, and you/Artem (whichever one is actually a doc, 'cos i'm 99% sure one of you is lying) is some sort of funky sanity? Hard to guess, but for now I'm assuming both docs are normal, as it really doesn't affect us too much lynch-wise.

(snip)
3. My strongest suspicion is that Shinn or GC are scum. GC found that Shinn was innocent and I was guilty. I know my alignment is town, so that eliminates the possibilty that GC is sane. He can't be paranoid or naive, so he must be insane. That means Shinn is scum, and would make Zero paranoid or insane. But, on the other hand, GC could be scum, and his investigations are a lie. In other words, I don't know which is which. Thats how I see things from my perspective right now.

I agree with your sentiment on who we should lynch, and I have to say that I find Shinn more likely than GC, due to her actions today, and due to GC play throughout the entire game. Also, if we were to lynch Shinn, and she were scum, we would have reasonably good proof you were indeed townie, and that would let us lynch the last scum a lot easier. If we lynch GC and he's scum, it'll be a little bit trickier, as it won't absolve anyone.

[Azhrei]

Uhh... Shinn. 1. "if you lynch me, we'll lose" is a logical fallacy and 2. We don't know your alignment, and the point of lynching you is because we think you're most likely scum. If you aren't, we almost definitely lose, if you are, we should be pretty well off. And with every post you make, the more I think you're scum.

[Azhrei]

Oh, and not lynching someone today will probably only screw us over later on, as if we lynch scum today, we will get out of lylo, whereas if we don't lynch anyone, then we'll be in lylo all the way through.

Oh, and suggestin a no-lynch is generally a scum tell. Especially seeing as more cop investigation will probabl not help us. I'd say that either you or GC (most likely GC) would come up tomorrow with no result, as you'd been roleblocked. There's more chance of Zero being town and being paranoid than the others, and the scum will know which of the cops is indeed town, and will roleblock the one they believe most likely to out one of them. In fact, we could end up having one roleblocked, one killed, and no new cop results, as the only investigation would come from the fake cop.

Note: I believe we have a roleblocker on the scum team.

[Azhrei]

Note: I believe we have a roleblocker on the scum team.

Well, there's still a chance of Charrat being a blocking doc.

I know, but if we're really, really lucky, we'll lynch scum today AND they're a roleblocker, then we'll know for sure. I'd suggest however, if that is not the case, that neither of you 'doctors' protects a cop. The more results we get, the better.

[Azhrei]

I believe we're all waiting on your answer Shinn.

[Azhrei]

I have to agree with GC, a no-lynch is crap. It's most likely not gonna help us, because I have said earlier, if they have a roleblocker, they'll roleblock CG or shinn (whoever is innocent) and kill Zero. That way, we get no new 'real' results, and just one botched result. Or, alternatively, if they roleblock the real doc, then they kill a real cop. Whatever happens, we'll lose someone, and scum will likely be no closer to being outed, depending on the the cop they kill.

For example, if the scum were to kill Zero, and he is indeed the paranoid cop, then we have no useful results. If they kill shinn, and she is the paranoid cop, same thing happens. If they kill GC (a very silly move heir part, if he is a cop) then we should be able to guarantee one scum, and his sanity wil be sane or insane.

Ultimately, a no-lynch will just allow the scum to win easier.

---

Shinn, your reply to GC's questions really doesn't do much for me. It's all too convenient.

The part that really makes me feel that you're scum is this:

In looking Art's MC post over, I personally don't have my gut telling me that there are going to be a plethora of power roles outing themselves shortly. Do you have any explanation other that "gut" as to why you thought this way? Or, if not, do you have any explanation as to why your gut was feeling this way?

Not really. The thought just crossed my mind after what Artem suggested the mass claim. Hmmm, let me put it this way: have you ever watched the House MD? Well, if you have, you'll probably know how House comes with the answer. He's talking about something else, and then someone says something vaguely related to his case, and the answer then just appear in House head. Something like that happened to me. Artem suggested MC, and after I read that, the first thing that came to my mind was that there were plenty of power roles. So, call it gut, feeling, or whatever you want. There's no other reason to that. That makes me scum? Pfft.

You try to use an analogy concerning a popular TV show to explain your actions? You know what's funy about that show? It's FICTION. Fictional characters do not accurately reflect real life, and here you are, trying to explain what you've done with them. Not a good move. Suggests to me you couldn't come up with a better way to explain what you'd done.

Also, at another point in your post youinsinuate GC is scum because he thought there would be a large amount of power roles. Now, I don't think tha's really very good reasoning at all.

[Azhrei]

... Shinn. Tell me what benefit we would gain from no-lynching. Please. A 100%, guaranteed, benefit. I'd really like to see it.


I have a feeling you've lied already, so how could it hurt to do so again? And I'm not voting for you yet, because I want to be as sure as I can before I do. We are almost definitely in lylo, so I don't want to screw up.


On a side note, the fact you're trying to insinuate that arguing for a no-lynch is anti-town is making me lol. If anything, the fact we've had random calls of "No-lynch, it'll be good for the town!" makes me find you even scummier, as it suggest that the town is getting rather close to the scum, and the scum are trying to save themselves.

Hey, a thought just popped into my head. We've had people wonder if we have a godfather, right? Say we lynch Shinn, and she's the godfather, then we'll have Charrat's head on a platter, now won't we? If I remember correctly, it's Charrat and Shinn who have suggested a no-lynch, and I honestly find Charrat much scummier than Artem. It makes more sense to me that way.

[Azhrei]

Artem, I see your point there, but it's really not that great an advantage, is it? And that wasn't your question to answer

(I am talking about my advantage question)

And I'd say that we most likely have 2 scum, it just doesn't make sense to have 3 scum to me. I really have to agree with all those saying that a no-lynch is crap, because it really is.

And Shinn, why is pointing out something so blindingly obvious that even the stupidest scum in the world could figure it out scummy? Am I meant to not say things in our discussion just because they benefit the scum? hell, if I was scum, then I wouldn't be pointing out the flaws in a no-lynch, I'd be promoting it.

To be honest, I'm almost happy with voting you. Almost. I'd like to see your response to these last few posts, and then I'll decide.

[Azhrei]

Mod, could you clarify on what you mean by no. 1? I don't get it.

Also, I think I should probably reread Charrat as well. Oh, and i checked Charrat, you are right, Artem did consider a no-lynch. my bad. However, he hasn't been pushing it like Shinn. Or you, for that matter.

[Azhrei]

I still think that it's strange that you think that pushing a no-lynch is scum. As I said before, a no-lynch won't get us an immediate lose. For that matter, is just another approach to out problem. So, even thought I won't be pushing it anymore, I won't just let pass comments like that, because they just reflect what you think, not a fact.

Most of what I say flects what I think, not fact

Mod, could you clarify on what you mean by no. 1? I don't get it.

It sounds to me that someone is going to have to bite the bullet and vote before the end of the RL day or else the game day will end in a no lynch, whether the town likes it or not. If it seems that no one is going to vote before then, I'll be sure to place a vote so that the day does not end abruptly. I don't want the day to end in a no lynch unless the majority of the town agrees that it is the best path to follow, and that doesn't seem to be the case.

This could be a problem if you're right...

Also, I think I should probably reread Charrat as well. Oh, and i checked Charrat, you are right, Artem did consider a no-lynch. my bad. However, he hasn't been pushing it like Shinn. Or you, for that matter.

I think the no-lynch idea has merit, and the more I contemplate what the result could be, the better the idea seems. But, of course, the goal today should be first to lynch scum, because lynching scum is definately better than a no lynch. (obviously )

The more I contemplate a no-lynch, the more it seems like a bad idea However, I'm happy that you acknoweledge that you think lynching scum is better than a no-lynch.


For today, I think our lynch should definitely be GC or Shinn. At the moment, I consider Shinn to be the more likely to be scum.

[Azhrei]

Ahk, thanks spring. Also, what timezone are you using for the deadline?

[Azhrei]

I'm gonna not vote until tonight, as it is the 21st today, and I still don't know what timezone spring is using. If anything comes up in that time, then I'll reconsider who I'll vote for.

Any last minute things to say everyone?

[Azhrei]

Well, as nobody has anything more to add...

Vote: Shinnen_No_me

I hope to god you are scum, and that myslef (and Zero) haven't just made a massive screwup.

[Azhrei]

For today, I think our lynch should definitely be GC or Shinn. At the moment, I consider Shinn to be the more likely to be scum.

Why is Charrat not an option?

Question: should I state who I'm going to protect tonight, in case I'm a weak doc?

I say no for Charrat for a couple of reasons. One, because I'm really not sure which one of you two docs is the scum, and two, because if we lynch a cop, we still have a slim chance to make it through the night (with doc protecting right) whereas if we lynch the doc, we're all screwed. Also, I'd say don't tell us who you are protecting, as if you really are doc, then the mafia know who not to target. If you're mafia, then the whole exercise is pointless anyway.

And Shinn, Zero is right, it does make sense for Zero to be blocked, as he is a claimed cop, and it also makes sense for there to be a roleblocker for the scum, as there are that many town power roles, they need something going for them so that the game is relatively balanced.

[Azhrei]

I know it's an option, but it's very unlikely in comparison.

[Azhrei]

I think you really shouldn't have said that... I say go with it ONLY if Shinn is scum, because otherwise (as I am inclined to believe you really are doc) the mafia know not t target me, and we have no chance of surviving.

And Zero, I'm pretty sure Shinn is scum, and I'm about 60/40 on Charrat/Artem, with Charrat being the scummier. Of course, that could all change with Shinn's cardflip.

[Azhrei]

Oh, now isn't that interesting... Both of the docs have voted for Shinn. I have a feeling we may have just screwed up, or a bussing went down.

That was the hammer, right?

[Azhrei]

The wait is killing me...

[Azhrei]

And now I'm getting this really bad feeling that we've been played masterfully.

Whoever you are scum, if Shin is being honest, you played well. Now, target whoever the doc targets, would you?

[Azhrei]

Whare are you spring? If this is intentional...

[Azhrei]

The setup was pretty decent Spring, it wasn't too bastardy

Grats to Charrat and Green Crayons. You both played well, but you did especially GC. I didn't suspect you in the slightest. Good job.

GG all.

[Azhrei]

haha i knew Charrat was scum; i only had an FOS on Green Crayons though .
post 126 i leave my role in breadcrumbs.

how could you forgot about masons,
they are the best !
just kidding, i think

I

forgot too . :[
plus this is

M

y first game,
so i wasn't really expecting any
other roles, haha .

if

THE

cop is killed before day four,
how

DO

you expect them to
even have a

C

hance to reveal

T

heir results ?
how do you even know we have a cop ?

the title does make it seem like
the mafia has a certain advantage of some sort .. :[

OR

like seb456zig mentioned,
we may have a naive cop .

:S If you're gonna breadcrumb, do it in such a way that isn't so subtle... That was a little toooo subtle.