Mini 756: La Cosa Nostra - Over!

[Seraphim]

/confirm

and

Vote: Riceballtail

Early game speedlynch, go go go!

[Seraphim]

NOTE: THE ABOVE VOTE IS NOT SERIOUS IN THE SLIGHTEST. I BEAR NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE CONTENTS OR IMPLICATIONS OF THIS VOTE. MY REASONS ARE NOT SERIOUS IN THE SLIGHTEST AND SHOULD BE TREATED AS SUCH.

Thank you,
Seraphim

Like that?

[Seraphim]

Cake? Cake?! Seriously? I like cake.

And to the players that have not appeared yet...come on! Let's get this game moving! I haven't played in a mini normal on this site yet and you guys are ruining my fun.

[Seraphim]

Silly...Riceball is at L-4, Trumpet is at L-5.

But the game has started already! Come on, people!

[Seraphim]

Mod: Is it true that the cake is a lie?

[Seraphim]

What do you mean? Mod made me. Trying my best. You are bad man.

Are you claiming a post restriction?

I know from more fast paced versions of this game that those with the role 'Fool' enjoy getting lynched.. Its in their objective.

...why in the world are you bringing Jester up?

[Seraphim]

Unvote

Vote: Atticus.Finch

There is absolutely no reason for you to be feigning a PR. It would appear that you don't actually have one. I see no problem with talking/typing the way you currently are, but faking a post restriction is just a way to avoid posting content.

[Seraphim]

Check post 61. AF was feigning.

As for Finch, I'm assuming his role is one that's goal is to be lynched asap. I think its called the Fool.

Or the Jester...and once again, I have to ask...why are you searching for the Jester? Are you trying to discourage his lynch already?

[Seraphim]

Wouldn't be a waste of a player space to keep him alive?

My policy for Jesters: kill them and get them out of the way. If we hit LYOL, we do not want a neutral role like that lying around. Scum will not kill him as he is a waste of an NK...in fact, optimal scum strategy is to keep Jesters lying around for that specific purpose.

Best to kill him now.

FoS: PhilyEc

for blatantly defending AF on the grounds that he might be a Jester.

[Seraphim]

I already unvoted, Phily. Rice is at L-2 now.

[Seraphim]

No, I never said that AF was a Jester. I'm saying that AF isn't a Jester and your blatant defending of him by saying he is a Jester is complete and utter crap. Of course I'm going to wait for him to defend himself but faking a PR is scummy, no matter what you say.

Keeping Jesters around is what they want because a Jester is someone who won't participate seriously and won't drop a vote against them. Jesters want to look as anti-town as possible so they won't vote for anti-town players.

And, if AF is a Jester, what do you suggest we do with him?

[Seraphim]

*complete and utter crap = scummy

[Seraphim]

Where to start...I am not protecting the guy, you seem to think I am

But you are. You're saying we shouldn't lynch him even though he faked a PR, which is very, very scummy...which is protecting him.

I said Finch MIGHT be fool, for wanting to be lynched. This isnt utter bullcrap, why do you think this role isnt possible in a closed role game?

Jesters are very unpopular on this site, and while it is possible, I find it very unlikely that he is a Jester.

Since I think he might be a fool (call it Jester if you must) and this is a very strong might to me, I think we can take scum points away from him

So, he's less scummy because he's acting scummy? Acting like scum and faking a PR is scummy. Regardless of whether or not it's blatant, we should still lynch him unless he has a good explanation for why he did what he did.

Is it in the Jesters goals to get lynched by the way?

Yes.

What do you think he is according to his actions? You did vote for him afterall.

I think he's Mafia.

[Seraphim]

Please explain, AF. Why fake a PR and then vote for Phily(I think I see where you're going, but you know what they say: "Assume makes an ass out of 'u' and me."

[Seraphim]

Phily: I don't think you understand. I'm not open to your suggestions because you seem dead-set on not lynching a scummy player because he's acting scummy. That's your defense of him and it doesn't make sense.

And he seems to be typing very clearly for someone who is supposed to be drunk.

And we've already determined that he doesn't have a PR, the mod confirmed that.

[Seraphim]

Oh. I thought they were the same role.

Isn't it clear that Atticius isn't voting randomly, though?

[Seraphim]

I think a fool is even less likely as I have yet to see that role in a game on this site.

[Seraphim]

I'm really torn between Phily and AF right now.

Phily, you're trying to base your case completely on the setting of a MINI NORMAL, a game which DOESN'T HAVE A SET THEME.

On the other hand, Atticus has yet to provide good reasons for why he's pretending to have a PR.

[Seraphim]

Alright, AF. I kinda figured you were fishing for reactions. However...that doesn't change that you faked a post restriction. Your speech was fine, but the 'mod made me' part is just really, really scummy.

My vote stays until we see some actual analysis from your gambit.

[Seraphim]

Nope, claim is still allowed. A closed game merely means that the set-up is hidden at the beginning...claims are allowed unless specifically banned. Unfortunately, AF no longer has to claim due to him no longer being at L-1.

Unless he wants to claim, of course.

[Seraphim]

I kinda figured that AF was gambiting...but, seriously, there was no reason to lie in order to gambit. There are a lot easier(and less rule-breaking) ways to gambit in this game.

AF, you wanted reactions, clearly. Mine posting some analysis of these reactions? Otherwise, there is no excuse and we lynch you.

[Seraphim]

Mod: Note my sig! Limited internet access is possible, however.

[Seraphim]

Before we talk about Porken's claim, I want to clear up a few things that a few people are confused about:

1. I just realized something. AF did, in fact, not lie about having a post restriction...

What do you mean? Mod made me. Trying my best. You are bad man.

It seems like he's saying that the mod is making him talk like he is. However, take a look at the post above it...

English is a nice language. Do you mind not butchering it?

I think what AF was saying was that the mod was making him use English, which was not his first language...instead of saying that the mod was making him speak in simple sentences.

That doesn't change the fact that he faked a PR, something that a town shouldn't have to do to garner reactions...I think I still like my vote, but that doesn't change the fact that the case on AF is now weaker.

@Porkens

Unless something changes, I would think that killing AF/Phily(the one we don't kill today) is best. Both of them are acting incredibly scummy and one of them is most likely scum. THough, Phily is more likely scum, IMO, than AF.

[Seraphim]

What I said above the italics was that he could be anything thus the fact that hes acting so suspicious and earning himself a ton of votes indicates this could be his goal. I threw in a maybe, he made it seem like I was 'positive'.

What I said above the italics was that he could be anything thus the fact that hes acting so suspicious and earning himself a ton of votes indicates this could be his goal. I threw in a maybe, he made it seem like I was 'positive'.

Fool is a term I have heard used to refer to Jester. And even you admit that you thought, for a while, that it was someone whose win condition was to get lynched. This kind of spectulation tends to be scummy as you seem to be defending AF and his behavior.

Again implies that I'm saying Jester when Im using the role fool as reference since the two are different!

Because I thought we were referencing to the same role.

You say I'm confusing the town when you've been defending AF the entire time by saying that he's either

A. Someone trying to get himself lynched
B. A random voter

Both of which, at least to me, didn't seem plausible even at the time. Bringing up a Jester, pretty much deciding that we weren't going to lynch Finch because he might be A or B, is the scummiest thing that's happened all game.

@Juls

I certainly don't want to mislynch people and rereading old posts is an excellent way to do this. If AF wasn't lying about having a post restriction, then the case on him is a lot weaker. We don't know if AF is scum or not and lynching someone who might have genuinely tried to gambit to garner reactions is probably not scum.

Also, what do you think of Phily defending AF since almost the beginning of the game by saying that AF is a Jester/Fool/whatever...?

[Seraphim]

How did you know that AF is town? You seem convinced I'm scum but you also seem convinced that AF is town or a third-party...the idea that he might be scum never crossed your mind?

[Seraphim]

Mod: I thought Phily unvoted?

At the moment, I think that Phily has explained himself. If AF flips scum, we need to look heavily at Phily for covering for his probable buddy. After deep consideration, I think an AF lynch is best for the town. Instead of actually going back and looking at reactions, he has instead been arguing with players.

While Ztife certainly looks scummy, lynching AF is currently the best judgement call as it will most likely confirm whether or not Phily is town.

[Seraphim]

That may have been a hammer.

[Seraphim]

Unless the Mafia shot themselves.

Rereading Simpor...if I recall, there wasn't anything terribly interesting about him.

[Seraphim]

Well, that was a simple read. The only interaction between Simpor and other players was voting for Finch and asking if AWA was back yet. In fact, that comprises much of his posting.

In other words, we're back at square one. Unless anyone else wants to fathom some deeper meaning from his meaningless posts?

[Seraphim]

Speaking of AWA, he has not shown up since he confirmed.

Mod: Prod AWA please

.

[Seraphim]

Nope, totally not being sarcastic over here. That post was made in all dead seriousness.

[Seraphim]

@Porkens

That was more sarcasm, lol. Sarcasm doesn't translate well over the internet.

@Phily

ADMIRAL ACKBAR: "It's a trap!"

KIDS: "Whoa, Admiral Ackbar! WHOA, ADMIRAL ACKBAR CEREAL!"

Vote: PhilyEc

Town has absolutely no reason to vote for themselves.

[Seraphim]

So pretty much every person that votes you after you vote for yourself is scum?

[Seraphim]

So now you want people to be wrong...?

I'm confused.

[Seraphim]

Why am I scum more than, say, Juls?

They do a lot though. This can't be entirely true. Whether it's a pride situation or genuine towniness, if Phily's town; he clearly thinks he has a reason.

Town players shouldn't have to vote for themselves to make a point, though. It's almost an appeal to emotion, pretty much saying "I'm defeated, beaten, don't vote for me." There are some...specific instances where you can self-vote as town. But they are few and far between. It's a tool for those who can't express themselves well.

[Seraphim]

Ah, good, we're on the same page then.

[Seraphim]

How is it my fault? You turned Porken's vote on you into a wagon.

There are two kinds of votes: votes to apply pressure and votes with intent to lynch. Seeing as you can't have been applying pressure on yourself, I certainly assumed you were voting to lynch yourself. And I was more than happy to oblige you as there is no good reason, even reactions, to vote yourself.

[Seraphim]

A self-vote "to get reactions" is still a self-vote. If you don't want a lynch, you shouldn't vote for yourself.

By your reckoning, the people who are possible scum are:

Porkens, me, Juls, Admiral, and you.

More than half the players alive are possible scum, guys!

Ztife and Phily are scum. Porkens, I'm guessing that Ztife is your target tonight?

[Seraphim]

Interesting. This confirms the existence of the Mafia Roleblocker. It also brings up the possibility of a doctor...

Vote: ThAdmiral

That hammer was ludicrously fast. Even if Phily was scummy as hell, did it really qualify such a quick hammer?

[Seraphim]

It was a pretty fast day, to be sure.

Unvote

I'll buy your explanation for now.

[Seraphim]

Oh? How I am scummy and opportunistic?

[Seraphim]

-trying to discredit Porkens as a vig/SK with the thought that mafia killed themselves even though the flavor clearly indicated otherwise.

That was sarcasm. SARCASM. It sounds like you're taking plays out of Phily's textbook.

-voted for AF based on his acting like a Jester...then said you figured he was looking for a reaction...but left your vote on him and he ended up being the lynch.

I would later state that he was not looking at his reactions at all. He merely started arguing with other players. His faking of a PR was still scummy so I thought he was the best lynch of the day.

-setting up a D2 lynch on Phily.

If I recall, weren't you on that wagon as well?

-I think scum was on the final wagon...I know that me, Porkens, and Phily are not mafia so it leaves me with you and Admiral. Admiral isn't off the hook yet but you have stood out the most of the remaining players as scum.

And if you're Mafia? If Porkens isn't telling the truth about his claim? This part of case(excluding the part where I "mislead" the town) is the weakest as it relies heavily on an assumption that there was scum on that wagon. What if it was one of our inactive players? Riceballtail, who has been lurking most of the game? AWA, who hasn't done anything yet? Ztife, who didn't say anything all day yesterday?

There is still the possibility of scum from all the players, including you, so assuming that I'm scum is extremely dangerous, especially since if there are two mafia left. If we mislynch today, and Porkens misfires, we can easily consider this LYOL right now.

[Seraphim]

Whoa. The hell I am smoking. I thought AWA was still in the game. Shows what I know.

And you're still completely ignoring RBT.

[Seraphim]

Porkens: No, I'm not saying you are an SK. I'm saying that the possibility, no matter how unlikely, exists and that Juls shouldn't make assumptions based on that fact.

I did not point it out before because it wasn't the situation at any time during D2. We had nine players going into D2, one was modkilled, making the number eight. We lynched Phily, making our number seven. If last night's kills had gone through, we would have been in LYOL. Now that we have a lynch and two possible NKs, it is LYOL. Here's the math:

D2: 9 players - 1 modkill = 8 players - 1 lynch = 7 players
D3: 7 players - 2 kills = 5 players(2 scum + 3 town)LYOL or 5 players(1 scum + 4 town)
D3: 7 players - no kills = 7 players(2 scum + 5 town)LYOL

Clearly, it was never LYOL at any point yesterday unless there are four scum which seems very unlikely.

Mod: Prod RBT

and

FoS: RBT

Lurkers are the last thing we need in this game. Your content has been minimal to the extreme. The only other player who posted less than you was Simpor and he turned scum. This will turn into a vote if you get out of V/LA and this persists.

[Seraphim]

VOTE:Seraphim

Hi, I posted yesterday. Trying to D3 lurker hunt when we can potentially have a LyLo situation come tomorrow makes me like you as scum. I also find that trying to make me scum because I post less often than you is suspicious as well.

Hi, your posts have contained absolutely no content that has furthered any sort of discussion at all.

[Seraphim]

First is your confirm post.

Second is your random vote on Trumpet of Doom.

Third, you agree that the cake is a lie.

Fourth, you comment on Ztife putting you at L-1 for no reason.

Fifth, you vote for Atticus Finch with little reasoning.

Seventh post:

Few posts that are of good quality is worth far more to the town than many posts of which contain a lot of useless text. If I truly had something to add at any point in time, I would have posted it. Also, I suggest looking into finding something better to do with you time than hunt down people who had posted within the last 36 hours.

Eighth post, you comment on how fast the day went.

Ninth post, you vote for me in a very nice OMGUS way.

It's now day 3 and you still haven't posted any sort of content which leads me to believe you are active lurking. Your posts have had no quality whatsoever. I'm currently thinking that there is a RBT/Ztife scum team.

Vote: Riceballtail

[Seraphim]

Mod: Fix my quote tags, pretty please?

Consider it done.

[Seraphim]

I oppose a mass claim because having that doctor out there creates a whole bunch of WIFOM for the scum which is exactly what we need right now. Outing the doc does not help anyone right now except the scum because then they know who to kill...the doctor can't protect him/herself.

[Seraphim]

Whoa, there's a player named sordos in this game?

[Seraphim]

RBT, you have posted an incredibly weak case on me. You have stated and I have stated that we are in a potential LYOL situation based on the fact that I'm calling you out as a lurker. You have yet to grace us with more than a "I like my Seraphim vote" and "I don't buy ThAd's claim" today.

Why don't you buy ThAd's claim?

Why do you like your vote on me?

Your refusal to interact with the rest of the town does not give you town points.

[Seraphim]

The claim smells like a false claim to make suspicions dissipate. I look forward to the role PM. I still like my RBT vote as she still has not made any sort of contributions. She's clearly keeping up with the game and she's out of V/LA. More content, please?

[Seraphim]

I say I'm willing to give ThAdmiral a benefit of a doubt today because I would still rather lynch RBT the lurker.

[Seraphim]

sordos lurked most of the game but has recently come back and is actually contributing. RBT has not done this. So, sordos, you've got your reads here, but who do you think is scum? IF you had to drop a vote right now, who is scummiest?

[Seraphim]

I could support a Ztife lynch though I still like my RBT vote. Because, guess what? She's still not back in the game!

[Seraphim]

Sure, go for it.

[Seraphim]

She's been active lurking and posting little or no helpful content.

[Seraphim]

We're not waiting on a death scene...I think they just weren't there until now.

[Seraphim]

The death scene and the final D2 vote count.

[Seraphim]

I can see Ztife scum but I think RBT's continued lurking and baseless OMGUS attacks on me just scream scum to me.

[Seraphim]

So are you saying you have a town read on RBT?

[Seraphim]

I'm saying I don't have a scum read on RBT.

Does RBT usually lurk out games with minimal content as town?

[Seraphim]

From my experience with him, yes.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9633 (Protown Mason...total posts for entire game: 21).

He started another game with me at the same time this one started. It's an ongoing game and I don't know his alignment yet but he is of the same calibur over there:

Snip.

posts here: 13, posts there: 14

Hmmm...I need to rethink my vote.

Do you think sordos is more likely to be lurker-scum, then? Based on what? Just wondering as I can see him as scum. Hell, I can see a lot of players as scum right now, except for Porkens and probably you.

[Seraphim]

Going on gut here.

Unvote
Vote: ztife

I read through the posts and then made a reread of ztife in isolation and some serious scum vibes. Some of his long confusing posts are meaningless babble. I'm fairly sure ztife is scum.

[Seraphim]

I was working under the impression that Juls wasn't the freakin' doctor. I'm used to set-ups where doctors can't protect themselves so I automatically ruled out Juls as the doctor.

[Seraphim]

Alright, I want to express my anger at the mod for some things and then I'll calm ztife down.

1. Set-up tilted heavily in favor of town. There was a lot of roles meant to dick with the scum rather than help the town...doctor, PGO, ThAd's role, and, of course, the vig. And scum only got a roleblocker, which by the way...

2. WAS OUTED! RAAAAAGH. This pissed me off as it cancelled the only element of surprise the scum had. Three scum was kinda a given but I don't think the single modkill was enough to balance that. That was where I started to lose hope in the cause, coming right after sordos's NK...

3. Not so much a point of anger, but a quicktopic would have been REALLY nice.

4. Finally, why was the doctor self-protecting? That's not standard and really, really cheap.

Now, ztife, hammering you wasn't stupid...I was bussing for townie cred. I was hoping that Porkens would kill off RBT. Plus, I was kinda tired of this game and demoralized due to some of the cheap cards we had been dealt throughout the game. I apologize, it was dumb, but I don't think any amount of luck would have helped us.

[Seraphim]

Porkens did own as vig. I will admit that.

BTW, the reason I didn't respond to you saying that you targeted me last night...how do you respond to that?

"Hey, I tried to kill you last night..."

">_> Okay..."

[Seraphim]

That would be me. I was like, "Oh crap, ToD is intelligent, KILL HIM!"

My general plan for N1 kills barring obvpower roles is to kill smart people.