Mini 756: La Cosa Nostra - Over!

[Trumpet of Doom]

/confirm

[Trumpet of Doom]

Vote: Riceballtail

Hello again.

[Trumpet of Doom]

You ever heard of the random voting stage, Archon?

[Trumpet of Doom]

So many jokevotes, so little time...

If you play with me more, you will realize something very quickly; nothing I do makes very much sence.

You sound like my brother. Jokevote #2:

Unvote; Vote: Archon

Actually, wait a minute - Simpor's the only one who's been talking about cookies, everyone else has been discussing cake... inattentiveness as justification for a vote? Jokevote #3:

Unvote; Vote: Simpor

But for my first serious vote this game, I'm... well, I was going to go with a Vote: Atticus.Finch, the reasons for which should be obvious, but now that he's already at L-1 (and damn, that was a fast wagon), I'll have to just

Unvote.

Speaking of which:

Mod, shouldn't Juls' vote in the last votecount be on Finch, not Archon?

Phily, the reason we need to get Jesters out of the way quickly - or any third-party roles, for that matter - is that when/if we hit lylo, they won't contribute much to our scumhunting. The only neutral that might help would be a serial killer - survivors generally just vote for whomever they think will end the game fastest without getting themselves lynched or NK'd, Jesters try to get themselves lynched, and cult recruiters are a whole other species of beast.

The best strategy for Jesters, IMO, is to leave them alone and have a vig (if there is one) take care of them at night (maybe unless there's someone who is absolutely, beyond the shadow of a doubt, obvscum... but even in that case, he might still be better off killing the jester and getting the obvscum lynched).

And so that nobody gets ideas:

Nobody hammer until we get some more discussion.

[Trumpet of Doom]

I believe we are still at L-2. I am only counting 5 votes on Finch.

Seraphim + RBT + ThAdmiral + Juls (probably should have been counted, since she unvoted first) + Archon + you = 6 = L-1.

Finch is acting like a fool not Jester, this is something implied by Seraphim

Umm... no. His votes are pretty definitely intentional, even if they're not for great reasons.

I have to agree with you about getting rid of Jesters, but what makes you think hes Jester?

Where did I say I thought he was a Jester? All I was doing was giving my opinion on the best way to deal with them if we had them. I never said I thought he was one.

[Trumpet of Doom]

His voting lacks good backing, he merely moves on from one person to another. I find this random.

No. Random votes have no reasoning

that was meant to be serious.

His votes: (post #s are his viewed in isolation)

1: Votes RBT. Random vote, but it was page 1, we were all doing those.
5: Unvotes, votes Archon, who has been a bit annoyed at Atticus's posting in short sentence fragments.
6/7: Unvotes, votes Phily for jester speculation.

I don't see anything random in those votes. The reasoning for the Archon vote may not be great, but it was there.

[Trumpet of Doom]

That's why I didn't vote for him. I've been hammered on page 5 before, I won't do it to someone else.

[Trumpet of Doom]

RBT was the random vote required post, Archon was more or less a joke, therefore, another random vote. I did think Phily was scummy. I figured, since he introduced the jester idea, that he was scum.

Reasonable, although I didn't realize your vote on Archon was a joke.

Not specifying or claiming which townie role though, but I am aligned with the town. Not third party, nor scum. Of course, you have but my word, which means little to all you at this point.

You're at one vote from a lynch. If you have a power role, now would be a very good time to claim what it is.

I don't like the English words, but there are no German games on this site.

Ah, English isn't your native language. I see.

[Trumpet of Doom]

I really don't like Ztife's last post. There is something really off about it. I want some others, particularly Juls and ToD to comment about it, since they seem the most townish, at the moment, to me.

While I appreciate the sentiment, the last time someone said something like that about me (somewhere between pages 25 and 35 of the linked game, I think), I was trying to bus the hell out of my scumpartners... just throwing that out there. However, if you insist:

I doubt that was gambit. It was probably just randomness honestly, I don't even sense any pro-towness in him.

A claim would be good. (unless we're not allowed for close games or something).

If the goal was to get reactions, it probably falls into the category of being a gambit and not randomness. I'd say it's hard to tell at this stage of the game whether or not someone's truly pro-town - I'd say that in general, I step up the quality of my play as the game goes on, and that there's not a whole lot to judge on either way this early. I do agree that a claim would have been appreciated, but since a reasonable alternative explanation for the main thing people found scummy about you has presented itself and people have started unvoting, it's not as necessary. (Short version of that sentence: I would have liked a claim since you had been at L-1, but saying English isn't your native language takes a lot of the scumminess away, and people had already started unvoting.)

As to the allegations that at least one person on the wagon was scum... it's entirely probable, but by the same token, there's probably also at least one scum off the wagon. However, let's go through the wagoners one at a time:

Seraphim: Post 61; reason is that there's no pro-town reason to fake a PR.
Riceballtail: Post 92; provides no reasoning beyond "die scum die."
ThAdmiral: Post 93; parrots Seraphim's reasoning, but at least provides something.
Juls: Post 94; reason is that she can't see how it's pro-town to fake a PR, but concedes that she also can't see why scum would want to draw attention to themselves like that.
Archon: Post 98; admits to shameless bandwagoning; unvotes in post 120.
sordros: Post 99; shamelessly barns Juls.

Of the six on the wagon, my list from most to least scummy:
1. ThAdmiral
2. sordros
3. RBT
4. Archon
5. Juls
6. Seraphim

But those top four could shift very easily. Ser had the most solid reasoning (and was first on), and Juls admitted that it wasn't a great idea for scum either, but those are the only two that are solid placements.

Finally: Sure, there can be third-party roles in a mini normal. The only one that immediately springs to mind is an SK, but I wouldn't call it uncommon.

On an unrelated topic:

So many jokevotes, so little time...

If you play with me more, you will realize something very quickly; nothing I do makes very much sence.

You sound like my brother. Jokevote #2:

Unvote; Vote: Archon

Actually, wait a minute - Simpor's the only one who's been talking about cookies, everyone else has been discussing cake... inattentiveness as justification for a vote? Jokevote #3:

Unvote; Vote: Simpor

But for my first serious vote this game, I'm... well, I was going to go with a Vote: Atticus.Finch, the reasons for which should be obvious, but now that he's already at L-1 (and damn, that was a fast wagon), I'll have to just

Unvote.

<snip>

The "I've got a half-day at college on Wednesdays" Votecount:

Riceballtail: 1 (Ztife)
ThAdmiral: 1 (Atticus.Finch)
AWA: 1 (Simpor)

Archon: 2 (Trumpet of Doom)

Ztife: 1 (PhilyEc)
Atticus.Finch: 5 (Seraphim, RBT, ThAdmiral, sordros, Juls)<snip>

Underlines are mine. How did this happen? Ah, whatever.

Unvote;

Mod: have you, by any chance, been studying at the Tarhalindur Vote Counting Academy? Also, if there are multiple votes/unvotes in a post, is the first or the last the one that counts?

[Trumpet of Doom]

I have gotten behind by

playing the Marathon games and

finishing up some last minute school assignments before spring break...

This. I'm working on something for this game, but I'll probably have to wait until tomorrow to put it up. (Walls of text don't make it easy for me to write quick posts, people.)

[Trumpet of Doom]

I'm gunna go ahead and claim my role:

From: Knight of Cydonia
To: Porkens
Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:06 am
Subject: Re: 756 replacement Quote message
Thanks.

Quote:

You are a Compulsive Vigilante.
You don't know who the scum are, but you do know you've got an itchy
trigger finger. You must submit a kill every night via PM, or you will
turn your gun upon yourself.
You win when the town wins, or nothing can prevent the town winning.


_________________
Currently modding: La Cosa Nostra (Mini Normal)

Completed games: W/L/D or A
Scum: 3/4/0
Town 3/2/1
Other: 1/0/0

Gah, compulsive vigs. At least you didn't claim "and if you lynch me, you're gonna lose" like a couple I've seen - that seems to be one of the easiest ways to get yourself lynched, especially if you're claiming at L-1.

PhilyEc's post 193 is just... WTF? Seraphim's gone over a bit of my commentary, but I'll say it anyway.

I'd like to point out Seraphims behaviour when I suggested Finch might be fool.

Sera isolates the following part of my post

Since its a closed type game, role wise. Im gonna watch more first.
Could be anything really. Though this is my first proper game in Little Italy.

I know from more fast paced versions of this game that those with the role 'Fool' enjoy getting lynched.. Its in their objective.

What I said above the italics was that he could be anything thus the fact that hes acting so suspicious and earning himself a ton of votes indicates this could be his goal. I threw in a maybe, he made it seem like I was 'positive'.

...why in the world are you bringing Jester up?

I had brought up fool, you brought up the term Jester.

The role that you were calling fool is known here as Jester, if you haven't figured that out.

As for Finch, I'm assuming his role is one that's goal is to be lynched asap. I think its called the Fool. (Edit:Yes Juls, this is where I was mistaken about the goals of the role, suprised it earned me a vote though)

@Seraphim
Im bringing it up because roles are closed, doesnt that mean anything could go?

Or the Jester...and once again, I have to ask...why are you searching for the Jester? Are you trying to discourage his lynch already?

Again implies that I'm saying Jester when Im using the role fool as reference since the two are different!

Again, the role you describe is known here as Jester.

Well why else is he acting so obvious? It seems too easy a lynch to me. I'll discourage any attempt to lynch without proper answers.

Why would you want to see Finch go? What has he done exactly besides act like a caveman and lie? It obvious he'd get corrected so I'd say his role is fool or jester, or something similar, goal being to get removed.

Wouldnt it be a waste of a lynch to do so?

Trying to be diplomatic here, I say fool OR jester OR something similar (i.e. third party)

Best to kill him now.

FoS: PhilyEc for blatantly defending AF on the grounds that he might be a Jester.

Protecting our vote, and used the term once since you kept insisting its what I was saying. You're misleading the town and trying to draw suspicion on me and Finch at the same time, hence the votes and FoS's.

To address his claim that I was basing my defense of our vote on the grounds that its a waste to get rid of a 'Jester' I took the diplomatic route and used this word Sera kept insisting on;

I'm defending our first vote. Finch would be a waste of it.

How bout we try to find scum before we go lynching someone we know isnt scum,that is, if you agree with my theory that hes looking to be lynched.

We might have a clash of opinion here because I think identifying Jesters is important, it lets us identify Scum more easily.
Seraphim, you seem like you're in a rush to lynch quickly, getting rid of a 'Jester' on Day One instead of looking for scum seems redundant and ineffective.

As for Scum keeping around Jesters, I dont really get why, can you explain why thats an optimal strategy for them? Am I missing something here about how its good to lynch Jesters before looking for scum?

...didn't we go over this already? Jesters and other neutrals just get in the way at LyLo.

No, I never said that AF was a Jester. I'm saying that AF isn't a Jester and your blatant defending of him by saying he is a Jester is complete and utter crap. Of course I'm going to wait for him to defend himself but faking a PR is scummy, no matter what you say.

From the guy who was force feeding me this word constantly just so I'd start using it and then to pounce on me the second I do, I think its a bullshit way of finding anti-town. You insist my goal is to defend Finch even when I state otherwise and provide my logic behind that attempt and tell me that I'm saying hes a Jester.

There is a difference between a Jester and a Fool.

Not with the definition of "fool" you were using, there isn't.

I said Finch MIGHT be fool, for wanting to be lynched. This isnt utter bullcrap, why do you think this role isnt possible in a closed role game?

There's "possible," and then there's "remotely likely," and then there's "probable." Jester is "possible," but it isn't "remotely likely," as Seraphim explains in the very next thing you quoted:

Jesters are very unpopular on this site, and while it is possible, I find it very unlikely that he is a Jester.

Sera's quote is a reply to mine. 'What the hell' is all I can entitle it.

Are you just being dense here? All I have to say to that post is a

Vote: PhilyEc.

One last fact, A.F was put at L-2 pretty quickly. If he was town and looking so idiotic, it would have been easy for the mafs to quickly bandwagon and finish him off wouldn't it? Unless of course, he's maf himself. Which maybe also explain why this gambit thing quickly faded on attention/discussion.

Nobody hammer until we get some more discussion.

That's why nobody hammered.

Apart from Juls and Trumpet, from memory the rest have yet to post significant posts yet, mostly just riding bandwagons/opinions, but I will need to do a re-read to evaluate all the rest better.

So why are you not posting anything about Juls or me? My ego's not sure how to take this.

At the moment, I think that Phily has explained himself. If AF flips scum, we need to look heavily at Phily for covering for his probable buddy. After deep consideration, I think an AF lynch is best for the town. Instead of actually going back and looking at reactions, he has instead been arguing with players.

While Ztife certainly looks scummy, lynching AF is currently the best judgement call as it will most likely confirm whether or not Phily is town.

If AF is scum, I agree Phily's probably scum. But if AF's town, it's probably a nulltell, as I can see arguments both ways. He could be scum defending a townie to look more town himself, or he could actually be town who thought the reasoning for the Finch wagon was poor.

Mafia are likely to kill a vig or a sk just because of the threat they possess.
Basically you shouldn't have claimed.

Yeah, but he's town's only claimed power role. Any doc we have will have to protect him until and unless another PR claims or the doc dies. (Or unless someone is doing such a good job of scumhunting that scum virtually has to kill them.)

[Trumpet of Doom]

Ladies and gentlemen, the most delayed "bah" post ever:

Nice of y'all to kill me as I was starting V/LA (although yay, I drew the mafia kill! What did I do to earn that, I wonder?) Bah, go town!

[Trumpet of Doom]

Woohoo! I'm glad I helped some...

The weekend of N1 I PM'ed KoC saying I'd be V/LA for the next week... turns out that was unnecessary. When I got back, I logged on and saw I'd been killed by mafia N1 and thought, "Um... I feel honored." The funny thing is, I think I play much better when there's more stuff to analyze, and with the speed of the game, I don't think I would have been terribly helpful even at the end.

MVP has gotta be Porkens, no question.

[Trumpet of Doom]

So just so I know, who suggested me dead N1?