Open 100 - F + E x 2 + TOG OVER! before 712

[Tenchi]

/confirm!

Hello everyone! I'm Tenchi and this is my first MafiaScum game post

[Tenchi]

I reread HP's post and I think that he was asking if we would know who would be responsible for a certain nightkill. If we get a distinction between the nightkills of Wolves and Mafia, we probably have an easier time finding associations later on.

(In other words, I didn't get Wall-E's point. Wouldn't distancing between the Mafia and victim for example, happen during day?)

[Tenchi]

Fair enough.

Hi Doc!

May I ask what you "understood"/saw as "fair enough" from Wall-E's post?

[Tenchi]

What's an alt?

Alt = Alternate Identity?

[Tenchi]

Thanks Seraphim

Now Doc, about that comment...?

[Tenchi]

Fair enough.

Hi Doc!

May I ask what you "understood"/saw as "fair enough" from Wall-E's post?

I acknowledged that his stance on the MO question made sense to me, even though I hold that it was marginally indicative of pro-town intentions.

We all know that.

Obviously my brain could not understand what Wall-E meant and I was hoping that you could actually explain what Wall-E was trying to say, given that you agreed with him.

So, what did you understand from what Wall-E said?

[Tenchi]

Does this also mean you agree with Wall-E that HP is scummy and "is a good choice" for a vote?

vote count

popsofctown (3): doc, budja, peter?
doc (2): seraphim, zazier
hp [leaves] (1): wall-e
peter? (1): popsofctown

not voting: everyone else

note - the person who is in line to be lynched will always be at the top, and the rest will be in descending order.

[Tenchi]

Understanding his stance doesn't mean I share it.

Mkay.

Anything else interesting going on, guys and gals? :p

[Tenchi]

Dammit! Log out, log in, shouldn't be that hard...

*facepalm*

[Tenchi]

After that one long discussion regarding his ONE post, his resounding absence makes me suspect him. Smells like scum who wants to let other people argue for him/make their associations.

Vote: HP

[Tenchi]

I personally think HP's small statement is a null tell.

I actually agree, given with what has been said. The thing is, the way he handled this situation does not bode well with me.

[Tenchi]

Well I apologize if I thought that timelines in Mafiascum are faster than they really were.

(Well unless he posts something, or something else comes up, I'm keeping my vote on him)

So yeah, vote me for asking legitimate questions and trying to keep my mouth shut when I have nothing useful to say because it has been already said by someone. I talk too much in most of my games, when in fact I actually try to be helpful which ends up with me being lynched or first killed LOL

*Keeps mouth shut*

[Tenchi]

You admit that your vote is a mistake based on your misperception of Mafiascum timelines.

Yet you are keeping it?

unvote

vote: tenchi

YES.

Have patience

[Tenchi]

It's there scattered in the thread but if you ask nicely I can summarize it for you:

I initially thought it was slightly pro-town.

Wall-E disagreed and then Doc seconded it. What really poked my curiosity was how easy it was for Doc to drop defense for HP, since I shared the same opinion as he did. With that, I decided to ask him a few questions, hoping he can make me understand what Wall-E's point was and hoping I'd get information on what he really thinks on the issue. I think I succeeded on that. And what I think about it? I think it was a dissociation from HP. But I'm not really sure, that's why I didn't even put an FoS on Doc and just let the issue be. I didn't think it was THAT big, that's why I didn't even bother to say anything about it. Why am I saying it now, because I don't see any reason to keep that suspicion to myself. At least you guys know where I stand, though at the same time I try not to rock the boat unnecessarily.

Now, I now think THE CONTENT OF THE POST it's a null-tell because Wall-E's and Doc's original argument just counter each other. Both scum and town have reasons to ask the question. Now for the argument of BH that scum would be more cautious and would ask via PM instead of posting is WIFOM, especially that it was said that HP was a seasoned player (according to BH that is). Look how good it's working.

[Tenchi]

It was a random vote. Afterwards I read the whole game again and started to make this part of the discussion. Your's and Doc's responces about hp post stood out.

As town it is our task to lynch those that are killing so it makes no difference if its a mafia kill or wolf kill.

And why would the mafia or the wolfes want to know this?

Wall-E said it first: In the event that the MO is not revealed, all scum can can distance themselves from their group kill easily as compared to when they have mafia/warewolf tracks all over it.

Now that I think about it, I can't seem to think of an easy example for this argument... although I still think it is a valid counter to my initial reaction.

[Tenchi]

And why would the mafia or the wolfes want to know this?

I dont know what the motives for the mafia or wolves would be for knowing this, but what would town find useful from knowing this?

Are you reading everything?

[/quote]
Tenchi's vote on HP comes off strange to me. Seems he is trying to park his vote on the easiest target he can find. HP has been the prime discussion thus far and was a easy target.[/b]

Who says I was targetting him? Parking yes, starting an inquisition on him no. And besides, if I took my vote off him, then people would ask me why, and I really have no reason to unvote him since I see no other suspicious behavior, only certain associations.

Vote Tenchi

For trying to start a bandwagon on a easy target.

No. You're the one who's bandwagonning. Or at least I think so. I'm obviously somebody who can't keep his mouth shut making me an easy lynch.

Vote: Soveliss

[Tenchi]

unvote, vote: Tenchi

Wall-E disagreed and then Doc seconded it. What really poked my curiosity was how easy it was for Doc to drop defense for HP, since I shared the same opinion as he did.

Fail. Read what I say a little more thoroughly next time. Please point out where I say that I share Wall-E's opinion on the matter? Considering it a valid stance isn't the same as agreeing with it. I don't like misreps.

True, you didn't share the same opinion as he did. I forgot about the part where you answered my question. However, you DID quickly drop your defense against HP.

But I'm not really sure, that's why I didn't even put an FoS on Doc and just let the issue be. I didn't think it was THAT big, that's why I didn't even bother to say anything about it.

Your lack of any mention of this implies to me that your suspicion is contrived.

Not contrived. It was incomplete. I didn't have any conclusions to make. As you said, it was very weak.

Why am I saying it now, because I don't see any reason to keep that suspicion to myself. At least you guys know where I stand, though at the same time I try not to rock the boat unnecessarily.

"I try not to rock the boat unnecessarily" isn't a very pro-town play early game. Nor ever. Perhaps you don't want to stand out of the crowd with your mad scumhunting skillz?
[/quote]

Actually, kinda yes. I usually become scum at most of my games and I am very good at it. When I become town, I get lynched first day or first night most of the time. I went to MafiaScum to hopefully improve my "mad scumhunting skillz".

[Tenchi]

Well you are doing a good job at attracting suspicion so far.

Don't claim you seem scummy because you always do. That holds no water. Defend yourself properly.

FOS Tenchi

Thanks. I sincerely appreciate that.

Well If I clarify my answer about "not being protown with not rocking the boat unnecessarily":

Well, if there was one thing I wanted to learn here in MafiaScum was the thing about trying to not get in the way (which was what I interpreted as "not rocking the boat unnecessarily"), I have never really learned how to do that in a long term game because I'm "impatient" (because I'm so used at being aggressive at my quicker games). If I am to help you guys, I'd rather stand a bit back because, my scumdar needs a LOT of polishing (i.e. half-baked suspicion on Doc). Hopefully I improve as this game goes along.

Well at least I saw a voting pattern on Soveliss through that whole thing.

[Tenchi]

Are you reading everything?

Why are you asking this to Soveliss?

(That post kinda comes off as a bit rude, sorry)

I was annoyed. There has been like a couple of posts explaining why a revelation of the MO would be helpful for town, including that other Wiki-like summary I made. It makes me think he's not reading everything... or maybe he's just selectively reading. He was updated with my status as an "easy lynch/bandwagon" but he wasn't updated on the issue of why the MO would be helpful for town.

That combined with his jumping on me (yep, slight OMGUS), led to my vote. Most suspicious thing I've seen so far.

Who says I was targetting him? Parking yes, starting an inquisition on him no. And besides,

if I took my vote off him, then people would ask me why

,

and I really have no reason to unvote him since I see

no other suspicious behavior

, only certain associations.

Should the bolded matter?
If you don't see any suspicious behaviour, then why did you change your vote?
See the underlined part, explain the 'other'.

That was about me unvoting HP. Please read it in context of what I was answering. I found something suspicious on Soveliss, hence my change of vote (see reason above).

Actually, kinda yes. I usually become scum at most of my games and I am very good at it. When I become town, I get lynched first day or first night most of the time. I went to MafiaScum to hopefully improve my "mad scumhunting skillz".

So if you survive this day and night, you're scum ?

If my lynch would help town if I turn up townie, sure!

What can the town do with your self-protect posts if you turn up town?

I don't know yet, but at least I have to do something. Nobody is going to defend me except myself. I know I am a mislynch, so that's the best way I can help -- prevent that.

[Tenchi]

Alright, now for the other side of the coin. While i do think there are definitely some real reasons to be suspicious of Tenchi, I'm not totally sure he's the right lynch.

What purpose does it serve to be even talking about a lynch? No-one mentioned him being the right lynch, therefore your comment that he may not be is suspect because you had no reason to say it. Unless, of course, you were trying to subconsciously plant the thought that people should be thinking about who to lynch right about... now.

Also, why are you pre-emptively defending your previous action to get a rise out of Tenchi? Your whole post feels contrived and cautious to me, while your previous actions didn't imply that you were intending to be cautious.

I also find the statement a bit odd. He lays out some of my "scummy actions" then he says something that sounds like a quick washing of hands in case I get lynched, laying an excuse to say "OMG LOL I told you "I wasn't totally sure he was the right lynch!"". The way the post was made was totally contradictory, if not ironic.

[Tenchi]

Nooooo

If you guys are gonna lynch me, can it wait until tomorrow...?

KTHXBYE!

[Tenchi]

Nope.

I just don't want to get lynched on my birthday. :-p

[Tenchi]

*hugs Wall-E*

[Tenchi]

Look, I'm gonna do you guys a favor. I'm just gonna STFU and let you guys decide whether to lynch me or not. I will enjoy my day rather than overthinking things again and just making a huge mess.

Confirm Vote: Soveliss

[Tenchi]

OK CAN YOIU GUYS PLEASE GET OVER THE HP THING ALREADY!???!!!???

I can see Soveliss/Pops/Peter as scum. Who's paired with who I do not know. WHY? Because they keep bringing back the conversation to my vote to HP to which it is highly irrelevant.

TIMELINE:

1. I VOTED HP FOR
A. Not being present in the thread.
B. Having no other reason to vote for other people. (This usally happens at start game right?)

2. I DIDNT CHANGE MY VOTE. "PARKED ON HP" because
A. I DONT HAVE ANY OTHER SUSPECTS
B. SINCE I WANTED HP TO SAY SOMETHING/REACT BECAUSE HE DIDNT REACT TO MY CHALLENGE OF BEING MORE VISIBLE ON THE THREAD.
C. Yes I misread the timeline, but dropping my vote won't do anything helpful. I'd rather do something with my vote, so keep it there.

3. I CHANGED IT TO SOVELISS
A. HP is obviously absent
B. OK fine he needs a life?
C. Soveliss jumped on my bandwagon
D Soveliss is obviously selectively reading the thread?
E. Soveliss seems well informed on my case, but not on the issue "why would scum/town would need to know about the Modus Operandi"

Everything I've said in my previous posts. Please stop making me do summaries. Argh. Now can we stop using my vote on HP as an excuse to lynch me?

NEXT THING:

Pops made a comment on me being a mason. I feel its like scum group A sending a message to scum group B. For what purpose, I don't know. But I feel that it's VERY NOT TOWNIE to expose who is mason and who isn't.

Next, using Peter's weak argument of me using IF instead of WHEN is so scummy to me. Attack my actions, not parsing every single word I say.

Huge FoS: Pops

[Tenchi]

Well I apologize if I thought that timelines in Mafiascum are faster than they really were.

(Well unless he posts something, or something else comes up, I'm keeping my vote on him)

So yeah, vote me for asking legitimate questions and trying to keep my mouth shut when I have nothing useful to say because it has been already said by someone. I talk too much in most of my games, when in fact I actually try to be helpful which ends up with me being lynched or first killed LOL

What? You are not being brought up for asking questions, you are being brought up (Quite validly) on being impatient. One post per day is a reasonable amount, but for a lot of people any more is ludicrous, and can't be expected. You also have to make exceptions for lapses, as some people are just too busy at certain points in the game to post. Mafia games can go for months, and you cannot expect anyone to go for that long with access to a computer every single day.

I thought I dealt with this already? That's why I said "(Well unless he posts something, or something else comes up, I'm keeping my vote on him) "

You admit that your vote is a mistake based on your misperception of Mafiascum timelines.

Yet you are keeping it?

unvote

vote: tenchi

YES.

WHY...?

READ THE THREAD

Now for the argument of BH that scum would be more cautious and would ask via PM instead of posting is WIFOM, especially that it was said that HP was a seasoned player (according to BH that is). Look how good it's working.

Could you please explain what this means? I understand the argument, I brought it up myself, I just don't see what your point is. You pretty much said it again told us to look at how well something is working. I may have just misunderstood, but why repeat something without giving some form of opinion on it?

PARAPHRASING: The initial case was whether HP was more townie or more scummy by asking that question. Now, BH's argument was HP is more townie for asking the question in the thread because he thinks scum would ask via PM (being more cautious). Given that HP is a seasoned player, HP could be aware of that fact hence using it as WIFOM.

if I took my vote off him, then people would ask me why, and I really have no reason to unvote him since I see no other suspicious behavior, only certain associations.

Why do you constantly try to fly under the radar? A vote should be cast to put weight behind your arguments, get scum lynched and generally show where your suspicions lie. If you have no suspicion of hp, or anyone else for that matter, then why not just unvote without revoting?

Good question. I wanted to put pressure on HP to participate more on the thread. That was my original goal.

My power is to use my vote right? There are other ways to use it besides lynching so yeah, there.

I'm obviously somebody who can't keep his mouth shut making me an easy lynch.

Appeals to emotion are terrible play regardless of your alignment. Please refrain from ever using them again.

Ever.

I'll get better as we go along. Hopefully.

Look, I'm gonna do you guys a favor. I'm just gonna STFU and let you guys decide whether to lynch me or not. I will enjoy my day rather than overthinking things again and just making a huge mess.

How is this a favour? If you're not here then if you are lynched eventually, then we can't get any information from your lynch.

That's why I'm here!

[Tenchi]

I still don't like how we are pushing for a lynch based on tenchi's voting pattern. In my last game, there is one newbie who weveryone thought was extremely scummy, somewhat same playstyle as tenchi but he turned up town. Feel free to go to that game and look. I have only one other game before and it has ended already.

Please don't cite older games. Irrelevant (even if it is to my defense supposedly). KTHXBYE.

[Tenchi]

IS THIS BETTER?

EBWOP:
Pops made a comment on me being

NOT

a mason. I feel its like scum group A sending a message to scum group B. For what purpose, I don't know. But I feel that it's VERY NOT TOWNIE to expose who is mason and who isn't.

[Tenchi]

Some notes and answers because I'm tired of quoting too many things:

+ I will lay off the CAPS LOCK. But I will use it once in a while. It's in my DNA.
+ REGARDING PETER: He made a similar mistake Soveliss did -- he was updated on my case but was not updated on other issues this time on the Mod's response. Although I still feel Soveliss made a graver mistake by missing 2-3 posts regarding why town/scum would want to know why a reveal in MO would be advantageous or not.
+ MORE REGARDING PETER: He posted this huge case against me when I said I was going to STFU. Could be coincidence or could be scum hoping I'd be absent so that no one would defend me.
+ REGARDING POPS: He's ready to leave his "masonism" "up in the air" but is ready to speculate on mine.
+ REGARDING ZAZIER's QUESTION ON POST 116: SEE TIMELINE HERE. I saw no other suspicious behavior except from HP missing from the thread AT THAT MOMENT. Then Soveliss came along...
+ REGARDING IF/WHEN: It was confusing I admit. I mean that if their suspicions was hinged on me being townie, then yes my lynch would be ok. But if you guys think I'm scum and you have no other leads aside from that

if I turn up scum

then that would be useless. But since I'm town I shouldn't have used the word IF. I just creates more confusion on my alignment. So it was a stupid mistake/assumption on my part.
+ REGARDING LYNCHING ON MY BIRTHDAY: I was actually having fun in my posts for the first time in this game.
+ REGARDING POST 124: You need to let me have a life on my birthday. :-p And I did! Regardless, I was still back to write some good stuff later that day.
+ REGARDING BUDJA: I wish he'd share more of his suspicions more. If he wants us to look at other players, then he should have seen/supported cases on other players by now.
+ DOC ON HP BEING SEASONED: Point made. I'd rather not go there as HP's post is just full of circular logic. Not to mention we have more interesting discussions now.
+ QUESTION FOR DOC: Why is a playstyle argument relevant? What do you mean by that?
+ REGARDING USING METAS: It is against my better judgement. There is a lot more going on a single thread with lots of information. I'd rather rely on that than using cases that look similar but involve different people/playstyles and personalities. (Or maybe it is just a bias on my part.) Not to mention mafia is originally played without metas, so I'd rather keep it that way. Unless metas are acceptable here in mafiascum culture, then go ahead and use it. But it's not going to have too much weight (if any at all) on my book.
+ FINALLY QUOTES:

Look, I'm gonna do you guys a favor. I'm just gonna STFU and let you guys decide whether to lynch me or not. I will enjoy my day rather than overthinking things again and just making a huge mess.

Confirm Vote: Soveliss

And then:

unvote

Vote: Tenchi

....
All of his other actions are very scummy. "Can you not lynch me while i refuse to defend myself KTHXBYE". At this point, the only reason i can doubt that he's scum is that he seems like his daytalk friend would be able to coach him into better action than that.
...

For blowing out of proportion my message

on taking a break from the game and having fun in my birthday

into

being unhelpful by refusing to defend myself

. I NEVER SAID I WILL STOP DEFENDING MYSELF. AND I NEVER DID.

+ ON POPS REMOVING HIS TUNNEL VISION: OMG FINALLY!

Huge FoS still on POPS

Vote: Pops

(At this point I'm voting Pops or Soveliss.)

[Tenchi]

Soveliss soveliss soveliss

1. I NEVER REFUSED TO DEFEND MYSELF. This thread is peppered with me defending me.
2. Me shutting up means A. I'm taking a break and B. Actually not overposting in the thread by repeating the same explanation over and over again. C. Letting you guys discuss among yourslves instead of me getting into the middle of everything.
3. LOL You "dug up" a quote, which I quoted and you should have obviously read. How ridiculous is that. Don't make us think you are doing work when in fact you aren't.

[Tenchi]

EBWOP: Pops pops pops

[Tenchi]

So what you are saying that I'm very unhelpful by refusing to defend myself. Is this what you are driving at?

[Tenchi]

FLAW:

Someone who is not posting is not defending themselves.
Tenchi said he would no longer be posting. [see above quote]

<--- Is this really what I meant? Or is this what you want to see? What did I actually do Pops? And what was my explanation for saying the quote?

Therefore, Tenchi said he would no longer be defending himself.

[Tenchi]

Your logic is flawed Pops. And your continued push on my case with increasingly BS cases covered with glitter ((mis)using the Law of Transitivity) grows even more heavily suspicious.

[Tenchi]

I'm not new to the game. I'm just new to this board-only games. Most of these games are apparently more serious and very critical when it comes to every word I say. Most of the games on I have played on the other hand rely on quick instinct (lots of deadlines) and emotion (we roleplay, and it is generally accepted), sometimes even memory, since we don't usually have a huge transcript of what everybody is saying.

Also, my other games allow me to have private conversations with individuals, which is absent from this game -- another deviation from what I usually do. Individual conversations add a layer of information gathering for townies (and scum) since you get to ask who suspects who without exposing it to the whole crowd.

Also to note: I have never been successful as townie, only in smaller games when I was the cop. So, being exposed in a board only game, practically blind to everything else, while being attacked by different people, while having no second opinion on what I should say or do is new for me. What I'm missing from my old games now is a means to ask somebody I trust privately and get an opinion on how should I defend myself (which is the same reason why I really appreciated it when Budja said "defend yourself properly" to me, even if he laid an FoS on me.)

[Tenchi]

+ REGARDING 167: That's why I used Spoiler tags. The whole spolered thing is irrelvant but I feel like sharing. Or maybe I should have spoilered more stuff. But all I wanted to say that I know Mafia but come from a different background.
+ REGARDING PHRASING MYSELF BADLY: I have on numerous ocassions and I feel stupid for them. But I have to explain and say that I meant something else, and I have to get the real meaning of what I said across (not some ill percieved definition of what my post sounds like, especially if I feel scum is manipulating the words I say.)
+ REGARDING BIRTHDAY LYNCH: It was several things A. Having the most votes in the game by the time my birthday started B. Added by Wall-Es vote on me C. Me finally trying to just relax by inserting the fact that its my birthday. D. I actually got to be myself for a bit, I roleplayed (although Wall-E was a bit hard to hug... he had this huge... metallic... arm.)! All in all it was all fun. I just would find it ironic if it happened. Not to mention I don't know what's going to happen in the next 24 hours. It could have happened!
+ ON ZAZIER REQUESTING MY 3 SUSPECTS: I have mentioned my three suspects in various points of the thread, and most of them prettty clearly why:

1. Pops
1. Soveliss (yes both of them are at number 1)
3. Peter (although I don't have a strong case because most of the stuff I have on him could be coincidence or human error)

Here's a summary on some of my other more current suspicions:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 71#1377271

Zazier: Please read the stuff I post carefully. THX!

Also Zazie (our IC in my other game! ) or anyone: Is there a way to search for all the posts of a specific person in a specific thread? Right now I can search for a specific person's post in a specific forum.

[Tenchi]

I had a reply but realized in part that I was answering for Soveliss so I will post it later.

SUMMARY: Drop the "who is mason" talk. But discuss who is speculating masonry and why it is bad at this point in time.

[Tenchi]

Pops, in what way does tenchi implies that he is not mason? And i doubt tenchi's if and when statement shouldn't be a case by itself.

I still don't like how we are pushing for a lynch based on tenchi's voting pattern. In my last game, there is one newbie who weveryone thought was extremely scummy, somewhat same playstyle as tenchi but he turned up town. Feel free to go to that game and look. I have only one other game before and it has ended already.

And wall-e, whats the reason for your vote on tenchi, first just to see what it does, and then the confirm vote?

Note blueheaven's defense of Tenchi based on a playstyle argument.

Doc! Can you clarify this quickly for me? I asked about this in my other post.

[Tenchi]

Techni, why is it bad to speculate masonry at the time being?

Speculation gives clues for both Town and Anti-Town. I think for the wolf/mafia side to win, the idea of when to kill the best mason suspects vs killing their mafia suspects vs killing the best vanillas would help them tremendously in setting up their endgame.

By withholding this bit of information until endgame, we actually try to give less clues for scum in making their strategies. Possibly confusing them in the process, hopefully keeping both masons alive, which in the end makes the endgame for town easier.

We speculate masons, but we do that later. (Actually, the masons might just claim come endgame then maybe they pick between two people. Who knows what could happen?)

@Pops: "You said you would "STFU". That is what you said you would do. That sounded to me to be "not posting". If everyone else in this thread will tell me that "STFU" does not mean "not posting", then I will self-vote. Seriously. It's not what i wanted to see. It's there in plain language. "

I know it's not what you wanted to see but you forgot to underline and address one of my other questions. What did I DO Pops in the long run?

I'll react to some other posts tomorrow.

[Tenchi]

If that's all you've got on pops you're stretching way too much for my taste.

What Pops said.

(I still owe you guys one big post. Haven't read page 8 too much yet )

@Peter- ...

Also, why don't you tell us what your alt is? Revealing an alt only makes a player more readable, am i correct? So if you are town, we'll be able to tell better that you are town, if you are scum, we'll be able to tell better you are scum.. right? So as a townie who wants to win, wouldn't you be happy to share? As far as i can see, refusing to tell us only plays towards one win condition...

You make a point here.

However, I have to think of reasons why town would otherwise do so:

1. To reuse some town gambits he has used before.
2. To mask the possibility of having some role.

Sorry but I just feel that using metas should not be done. If you want to incriminate Peter, press him on the issues we have on this thread -- he has not reacted much on the issues recently, or have posted anything that discusses other issues (other than my case or HP's initial post) , or add new issues that he may have noticed.

[Tenchi]

(the third statement is the Law of Syllogism itself, that is proven by Socrates)

Hey look, appeal to authority. Why do you feel the need to reinforce otherwise perfectly valid logic by slapping on a big name?

I thought Tenchi might actually not be familiar with it, so i wanted to make it clear that there is no point in debating the third statement.

...

Why would you bank on ME not being familiar with some logic mumbo jumbo just to support your argument? We're you expecting something else (READ: Praying I was dumber?)?

REMINDER TO SELF: Wall-E Said discussed M Word, despite it being clear on what to do with that kind of discussion.

FoS: Wall-E

.

BIGGER REMINDER ABOUT POPS:

When looking through your posts, I also came across the part about Tenchi not being a mason. It seems more like a 'if he's town, it doesn't matter if he's lynched as he's not a mason' comment. This combined with this:

I'm just concerned that maybe I'm hunting village idiots and not scum.

Gives me the impression that you think he'll turn up town.

Yeah, I'm concerned maybe he's village idiot town. It's a possibility, not a prediction. But i think mitigating that risk is:

A. he's probably not a ... power role of any... sort

B. If we left him alive as town, i think he'd be hard to read the whole game, because he's so newbie.

Sneaky scum.

(That's just my first good pass on Page 8. I'll post more notes some other time. I'm getting really busy)

[Tenchi]

EBWOP: Pops can't just stop himself from discussing it.

[Tenchi]

Tenchi: Where did I discuss M word after saying I'd drop it?

I didn't need YOU to say it. It was pretty obvious on Page 6-7 that doing so is NOT helpful, yet you still did it.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 82#1376082
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 88#1376788
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 83#1376983
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 26#1378226

Pops was persecuted for doing it once, why do it again?
(I even skipped some posts which quoted the information on those posts)

Either you selectively read, forgot, or one sneaky scum.

Bigger FoS: Wall-E

for trying to weasel your way out of it.

You did it. Admit that you did something wrong and possibly scummy. And admit it that it does deserve suspicion at least.

[Tenchi]

Mod: Please prod Seraphim

THANKS!

[Tenchi]

EBWOP: Pops was prosecuted (not persecuted).

[Tenchi]

I know I'm not the smartest person here Wall-E but that doesn't mean you have to dismiss everything I say, especially if it is against you. Ignore it if you will, but I'm hope some other people get what I mean.

[Tenchi]

Tenchi: Where did I discuss M word after saying I'd drop it?

I didn't need YOU to say it. It was pretty obvious on Page 6-7 that doing so is NOT helpful, yet you still did it.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 82#1376082
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 88#1376788
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 83#1376983
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 26#1378226

Pops was persecuted for doing it once, why do it again?
(I even skipped some posts which quoted the information on those posts)

Either you selectively read, forgot, or one sneaky scum.

Bigger FoS: Wall-E

for trying to weasel your way out of it.

You did it. Admit that you did something wrong and possibly scummy. And admit it that it does deserve suspicion at least.

I have been busy these past few days. My point was this: "Either you selectively read, forgot, or one sneaky scum."

I outlined four posts in which we discussed that discussing or speculating who is mason at this point in time is not helpful. Those were written in pages 6-7, and I skipped over some other posts who quoted those posts. You speculated about Pops being mason at page 8.

This means that you, as one of the active players couldn't and shouldn't have missed the point of speculating mason thingies is bad for town.

So again, "Either you selectively read, forgot, or one sneaky scum."

[Tenchi]

Two things:

Skip argument ad hominem Doc. True or false, it helps the town if we keep this game long and continue examining all players?

1.

What's ad hominem?

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. The process of proving or disproving the claim is thereby subverted, and the argumentum ad hominem works to change the subject. - Wikipedia

2. Next, I don't get Pops' question. I mean it has an obvious answer, so why ask it?

It looks likely i'll be the days lynch, so i think i'll do the best i can and try to flag some scum before i go down. Please, hopefully, wait until the deadline or close so i can reread and analyze as much as i can, try to find some suspicious people. Remember folks, even if i were 100% scum, there would

still

be benefit to looking around town before making the lynch, because we can flag people that are suspicious so opposing scum factions can nightkill eachother.

Oh yeah another thing, if Pops feels or is subdued by the fact that he seems to be lynched, why can't you (pops) give a list of suspicions now considering you are active and have been reading most of these posts? If he was town trying to change our mind, he needs the time to let the town decide properly whether to finally lynch him vs the cases he is putting up, instead of leaving it to the last minute (i.e. "wait until the deadline"). If you are doing it Pops, give your suspicions now (which will probably include me).

Also, if you turn up scum, your final suspicions will be full of WIFOM. And will probably include cr*p that will protect your partner. I'm wary of that.

[Tenchi]

Techni, why is it bad to speculate masonry at the time being?

Why is it good to speculate masonry?

Is this question directed at me? I answered HP's question AFAIK.

I also want to hear what a Budja replacement will say.

(MOD: Can we push the deadline back a bit because of the recent replacements?

)

Pops: can you state your main arguments why I should be lynched instead? (Just to remind everyone.)

HP: Seriously, who are you voting for and why?

Blueheaven: Doc prodded you and I will too. You need to commit to a vote and state your reasons for doing so. While your at it, I think you owe us your three most suspicious players.

[Tenchi]

Four of you can jump on me right now but I'm not giving up.

Let me address your points Wall-E:

"There is nothing to show he wasn't simply reading the thread for a
decently WIFOM-rich attack to piggyback on."

Nope. I was actually the first to bring up the fact he was discussing who was mason or not. The additional points people brought up (like he jumped on vote bandwagons) just added reason to why others voted for him. AFAIK I was one of the first few people who voted for him (although it was initially born out of OMGUS). Not to mention his failure to actually provide alternative suspects if he is town(which was the thing I also noticed). He did provide Budja as one and like many others, I'm still waiting for what a Budja replacement will say.

REGARDING TARGETING HP: I didn't. I just parked my vote to pressure him to contribute to the thread.

"Too self-assured. Why park your vote on someone and NOT ask a question when you do? Better yet, ask a question FIRST, gauge the reaction, THEN vote if you still feel sure. "

Good question. Honestly, I don't know what to ask. I just wanted him to participate more since all that initial discussion came from his question.

"This kind of self-meta is never acceptable in my book. You're too scummy to be scum now? I think not. "

Good point, but that's what I'm thinking. I'm looking scummy in all three of my games right now and I can't seem to figure out how to deal with this self-scumminess. :-p I'll learn.

"* It's not scummy to attack someone, regardless of if they've claimed they'll be STFUing or not. "

My concern was the fact that Peter, after a LOOOOOOONG absence makes this huge post against me when I "claimed" I will be away. I personally find the timing suspicious. But since you are thinking I'm scum, then that really doesn't matter to you.

"This was the initial reason I unvoted and stopped pursuing Tenchi right here. It's still a good point, I think, but in light of pops' flip I'm downgrading the significance. Even scum can make pro-town points."

That's unfair. It's like saying "Let's all nullify Tenchi's good points because he's scum.". I don't even see anything else that makes me scum aside from the fact that I voted for Pops.

"This bit is a very verbose way of continuing meta discussion (or meta-meta discussion, if that's not redundant) while simultaneously denouncing meta."

I just said an opinion about an issue in the thread. Many people don't know me where I stand regarding that issue and apparently many people also don't share my POV on that issue. I feel there was a need for me to state my case on why I decide to hold that POV. Again, I feel its unfair for you to attack me because I shared an opinion on what I consider as part of a valid case.

Vote: Wall-E

I think your points are out of hand.

[Tenchi]

I'm supremely upset that Doc didn't share his thoughts on me BEFORE
night fell, given that he was not an investigator (the only reason I can see
for witholding the info: Possibly trying to confirm my role before dropping
some kind of bomb on me), so double boner points for that. Luckily we
have a backup mason who is now a member of that mason team, so the
information is (hopefully) still in the game, but it's hardly worth a claim
for the info to become available today. Suffice to say I will ask any
claimed mason for this information.

I think it would be stupid for one of the masons to come out right now, especially if Doc suspected you.

[Tenchi]

I hope we don't become deadlined because of lack of activity. I hope we get replacements before we get a new deadline.

Now Wall-E:
"You jumped onboard the HP wagon for an arguably weaker reason. "

Nope. There's no "wagon" on him. I was actually the only second one to vote for him after a VERY LONG DISCUSSION.

There were two sides to the discussion you quoted: one thinks his question was scummy, the other thinks his question was pro-town. It was generally concluded that it was a null-tell. I was voting him for not a weaker reason, but for

another one

-- his absence during the discussion of his own words.

It's like he's letting townies munch over some null-tell statement hoping that one of the townies slip up. He should've got in there and clarified what he meant and gave his opinion instead of just watching us go at it.

I forgot he's Townie. But that's what I thought when I gave him my vote.

"Pre-empting Peter?'s case with, "I'm going to STFU now" doesn't erase or invalidate his points in ANY WAY."

It doesn't. That's why I addressed his points already in this page.

Now, his timing and weak suspicion of me gives me reason to vote for him.

"I'm 60% sure you're scum, Tenchi, and that's way more than enough for me to keep my vote on you."

I'll take it. I've made a couple of unclear statements and I know I have to answer to them. However, you should try to not only bank your arguments on the assumption that I am scum. But I guess, that's where the 40% is, right? :\

My gut tells me to

UNVOTE

.

[Tenchi]

EBWOP: Now, his (Peter?'s) timing and weak suspicion of me gives me reason to SUSPECT him.

Now that I think about it more, that series of events tells me something...

Vote: Peter?

I reserve the right to hold my reason until Peter posts and actually contributes some more, or remove it if something else comes up. (Think of this as a public sticky note)

[Tenchi]

*facepalm*

I forgot Peter is getting replaced.

But I'll still keep my public sticky note there. I'm more inclined to hear what a Peter? replacement will say.

[Tenchi]

I'm sorry but I really want the others to say something. I feel something is REALLY missing from the whole equation.

[Tenchi]

*Noting that Zazie got replaced in our other game and is still active for this one*

[Tenchi]

*picks nose*

[Tenchi]

-His comments about 'Tenchi making errors all over the place'.

He FoSed Tenchi. He also admitted that Tenchi was suspicious to him. If that's the case, then why would you call his actions errors? It gives me the impression that he knows Tenchi's allignment. And I don't see why it's funny.

I wish you said it this clear before.

Is it me, or does Tenchi like voting players who make a case against him?

It's something I want to change in the New Year.
(Same thing I felt, hence I unvoted Wall-E. But I still think there's something up with Peter. I want him/his replacement to post their reactions to what has happened so far. Same with Budja.)

[Tenchi]

OK this is bugging me:

Budja's/Coug's heavy defense of me is creeping me out.

[Tenchi]

Coug, I suggest you rethink your reasons for voting Wall-E.

Not seeing the case on somebody ≠ denying the case's existence either.

Uhm... I don't understand how this is the same as

Tenchi, not seeing the case on somebody ≠ defending that person per se.

Please clarify.

===========================

SCoug's first question above though is valid (although I could think of a reason why he did it.). Wall-E, please answer.

===========================

Am I the only one who 'likes' Seraphim's contribution so far?

I don't :\ But he says he's living the highschool life that I was giving him a free pass on that. But there shouldn't be any school right now right?

[Tenchi]

Wall-E tried to do something that was not blatantly stating that Pops was a bad lynch (although not as well presented as his campaign on mine :\).

This post was somewhere with Pops at L-2/3 before he said the "verbotem" statement. (Which has me thinking he was resolved to a Pops lynch at that time and the only way to save Pops was to claim mason on behalf of him, which Wall-E doesn't want to get in trouble with)

My best lead right now is Budja. His call for a "cease-fire" without offering alternate targets still bothers me. I could be convinced to vote for pops or ZazieR if one of them does something scummy worth noting and can't explain it, so I'm waiting on further debate between those two before picking a more serious target.

The debate between them is healthy, but atm I'm getting a town read off pops and a lesser town read off Z.

I missed this question earlier:

@ wall-e: you seem to want to defend pops? why is that?

It was less that I was defending him and more that I was calling attention to specific things he's said that I feel are good for us all to notice.

I'm suspicious of hp leaves and Tenchi: Hp for shoddy, slop plays that make him look like a newb who cares little about the game, and Tenchi for post 211 where he calls someone scum with zero explaination as well as the reasons given for his bandwagon earlier. That lynch died with a whimper which tells me there might have been some merit to it.

Vote: Budja

[Tenchi]

*bump*

[Tenchi]

I haven't read muck extensively the argument between you two but the only reason why I don't think Wall-E is scum is that I feel scum would let townies explode and kill each other off. I don't think scum would be the first to post a case against another person.

[Tenchi]

I think anyone saying they'll STFU is scummy. Tenchi going back on it could be a gambit, but it's a poor one if so. IMO, there's nothing strictly scummy about continuing to participate in the thread, regardless of what he said previously.

1. IT WASNT A GAMBIT. I changed my mind because I felt it was wrong.
2. I am trying to look at timing details here because it might help me figure out who's really scum. It just so happen something apparently happened during what I did and I find it suspicious.
3. If you think somebody saying STFU is scummy, then I think I can also suspect who tries to post a big case on my when supposedly I am away.

[Tenchi]

Wall-E ate the mod.

[Tenchi]

Did I count right if I say 4/9 players are missing?

[Tenchi]

SC: If you were a dayvig and you had to kill someone right this second, who would it be? Tenchi, same question.

I would choose between one of the soft-spoken people (I really think scum is just letting us implode at one another, as in D1).

If you really want me to choose, I'd pick Seraphim to kill because he has cleverly posted enough to avoid proddage but if you read through his posts, they are almost empty.

Now I'm just thinking which is worse, his situation or the other people who have abandoned this game. I REALLY REALLY want to know how people feel about the case on me and my defense. It's my only source of information at this point.

[Tenchi]

Seraphim: What do you think of Wall-E's case on me? What did you think of my defense?

[Tenchi]

EBWOP: What

did

DO you think of my defense?

[Tenchi]

Let's replace everyone. Looking at everything only Blueheaven is the only one without one, so I guess we can wait finding a real replacement for that one.

HP: Since you were one of the first people to be "back", we expect you have read more into the thread. You appear to just be repeating your performance back then eventhough you were a townie. I'm worried you'd repeat the same thing and get away with eveything especially when you are replacing for a very suspicious player (Soveliss).

[Tenchi]

mm. Seeing as Tenchi hasn't healed any blind children or stopped any derailed train cars since i left, i will be doing a

Vote: Tenchi

I'm the obvious choice right now.

Please address which points I of Wall-E's case you strongly agree with (or any additional points you have) that justifies your vote.

HP and PETER: Please address Wall-E's case on me and my reply to him.

Thanks guys!

[Tenchi]

What about the case on Tenchi do you agree with?

The STFU bit.

Why would you agree with the weakest reason Wall-E has? I admitted that "STFU"ing was wrong, hence I didn't do it.

Now that I think about it, I see doing it as not pro-town. But I don't see how that is scummy, especially that I didn't do it.

(I still believe I have addressed all the points of Wall-E's case on me when D2 started.)

I still am waiting for HP and Peter.

[Tenchi]

This is a short version of my (hopefully) soon-to-be posted big post.


Tenchi seems scummy at most at the moment; because of his "I'll just stfu" thing. I wouldn't want to lynch him if there was a better option; but my vote would be on him on 1-to-2 rates. Other than that, he seems neutral.

I agree with the majority of Wall-E's case about Tenchi.

NOPE... PROD THAT GUY ^^^^^

And Peter.

I'm on it

[Tenchi]

This is a short version of my (hopefully) soon-to-be posted big post.

Tenchi seems scummy at most at the moment; because of his "I'll just stfu" thing. I wouldn't want to lynch him if there was a better option; but my vote would be on him on 1-to-2 rates. Other than that, he seems neutral.

I agree with the majority of Wall-E's case about Tenchi.

I reread the your last two posts and they were filled with irony:

1.

Tenchi seems scummy at most at the moment....

Other than that, he seems neutral.

How can I be "neutral" and be the most scummy? Does this mean most of your other players are in better than neutral? We have four scum playing, which made me implode my head.

2.

I wouldn't want to lynch him if there was a better option

I'm most scummy but you don't want to lynch me. Why?

3.

but my vote would be on him on 1-to-2 rates.

Well uhm... there's nine of us and four scum. That's almost like a 50:50 shot of getting scum.

So your statement is... duh :\

How do you call that in Mafiascum? Appeal to... math?

4. Your post promising... this:

This is a short version of my (hopefully) soon-to-be posted big post.

Was posted a day after you posted this...

anyone up there?

I think that you were betting on some argument between the more active players to surface (like what SC and Wall-E did) to bandwagon on some additional suspicions (like what you did with Wall-E's case)

==============================

PS: I'm deliberately not addressing Pops reply to me until I have heard from both Peter and HP.

[Tenchi]

Seraphim: can we get some tenchi vote before you leave?

If you are town SERAPHIM, please don't. We have four scum finding a lynch right now. They only need to fool one of us.

If you have very strong and valid suspicions, do so. If you have the smallest of reservations, let your replacement handle it.

[Tenchi]

FoS to POPS

for begging a soon to be idler to park his vote.

[Tenchi]

Do you prefer a no lynch, Tenchi?

Scum-Tenchi: Of course not.
Town-Tenchi: Of course not.

Bad and useless question. I smell somebody hoping I'd make another noob mistake like "STFU".

===========================================

I tried to get some voting going, and Tenchi is FoSing for it.

NOPE. You tried to have an idler park his vote.

If you wanted discussion to go, you should do it what by Wall-E is doing: challenging people to speak up and by asking useful questions. Or by what I'm doing, posting anything suspicious that I see in the posts.

In this LYLO situation, town should be even more careful on how they throw their votes around. Scum of course would just jump on any bandwagon they want.

[Tenchi]

EBWOP:

In this LYLO situation, town should be even more careful on how they throw their votes around. Scum of course would just jump on any bandwagon they want

(I forgot this is a special case.)

Regardless, in any game in any situation, town should be careful with their vote, moreso if they are leaving for an expected long period. In my case, I suspect Wall-E is town, and if Seraphim is town that would be 2/5 town voting against me. They only need 3/4 scum to do some magic bandwagon to lynch me, especially this early and this time when most of you are lurking and not even posting anything.

[Tenchi]

1-15: Small talk, rules and random voting

16: TownHP asks the controversial question: "Are we told the way of killing or we just find/not find dead bodies? "

19: First non-random vote: Wall-E votes TownHP for the killing question.

20 & 23: TownDoc defends TownHP.

27: Wall-E proves that TownHP's statement could also be a scumtell (making the statement a null-tell)

32: In the middle of the discussion of Korts/Doc alt, Sekinj's first post in the game is a shout-out to Wall-E. (former relationship or game relationship?)

33: Wall-E responds with a "grunt".

34: I didn't understand it on the first read through. I question Wall-E to explain his stance further.

35: Blueheaven notes TownHP's experience in playing this game and that TownHP as scum would be more cautious to ask the question through PM.

39: I didn't get a reply from Wall-E yet, so I asked TownDoc my question at 34.

44: Peter notes that 35 is WIFOM.

46, 48 & 49: TownDoc answers my question but I had to ask again since it doesn't answer my original question. TownDoc explains.

50 & 51: I asked Doc whether he now shares Wall-E's position. I suspected him of conceding the argument too easily. TownDoc replies prudently.

53: I lose all leads.

54, 55 & 56: Zazie posts a HUGE post. But everything is just reacting on all the nonsense that has been happening. Blueheaven gets an FoS and a purple monkey. I don't understand why. Zazie explains (in a more verbose fashion) the same thing Peter said in 44: that BH's observation is a playstyle argumentand flounders in WIFOM.

58 & 59: TownDoc suspects Zazie for not FoSing him despite that both BH and him made the same mistake. Zazie explains that she already has her vote on him and felt no need to address anything additional. I thought this is irresponsible since her vote was perceived to be a random vote at that time, TownDoc and everyone clueless of the "real reason". Had TownDoc not asked about it, it would have remained there parked. If a reason for voting somebody changes, especially from a random voting stage to a serious vote, then it should be stated.

60 & 61: TownPops asks for a summary of the significance of TownHP's question. Zazie explains how the information is useful for town, and just says later that she disagrees with it. Acceptable response but incomplete.

62, 64 & 65: TownDoc asks Zazie if his logic is false. Zazie explains why the suspicion on HPs question is full of circular logic and shouldn't be pursued as a scum/town tell. TownDoc argues that TownHP wouldn't intentionally place a WIFOM-filled statement in the hopes of clearing himself, making the question more inclined to be asked by town.

67, 69 & 72: TownPops votes for Soveliss to "even out activity". He asks Soveliss what he thinks of TownDoc. Zazie asks why TownPops picked Soveliss despite other people have not posted much. TownPops says its "arbitrary".

73, 74 & 75: Soveliss responds. He marks TownDoc's alt problem as irrelevant. He also notes that HP's question is more scummy. However, he also notes (which I strongly disagree with) that the method of killing is irrelevant. Zazie challenges Soveliss on why in this game that "a kill is a kill". Soveliss notes that a town-player should not ask the way of killing since it doesn't matter for them (which I disagree again).

76, 77 & 78: TownPops says TownHPs question is a null-tell. Soveliss disagrees and says "its all we have to go on right now". Seraphim agrees with TownPops. Seraphim suspects TownDoc for using it to defend TownHP. Seraphim suspects Blueheaven for (what I think is) lurking.

79: Sekinj shares Doc's stance on TownHP's question.

80-85 (w/78): Doc analyzes Seraphim's posts:

1. Use of "God forbid" despite HP being far from a lynch
2. Use of comma after "But" (I don't get this one... :\ )
3. Use of sure twice in a row (Um... sign of over-agreeableness?)

TownDoc summarizes with: "My point was, noone even mentioned the possibility of lynching hp over that, yet you started arguing against it like it was being considered as a valid option by some players. "

86: I vote TownHP for being absent from the thread despite his statement being overly controversial.

87: Budja finally speaks up, noting TownHP's statement is a null-tell. He votes Soveliss for "declaring HP's statement scummy without reasoning". Soveliss had a reason, but it was weak.

88, 89 & 90: I agree with Budja that TownHP's statement is a null-tell. I restate my concerns of TownHP being absent in the thread. Sekinj defends TownHP saying that he hasn't replied since it's been less than 24 hours since the game started. TownPops accuses me of "punishing hp for, probably, having a life?".

91: TownPops votes for me for "asking for explanations to everything, but doesn't seem to actually engage in discussion or disagree with anyone or take an opinion, until this page, when he votes because hp didn't handle the situation well"

92 & 93: I apologize for the misunderstanding of MS.net timelines. TownPops questions me for keeping my vote on TownHP.

94: Blueheaven agrees with me that TownHP is absent from the thread for quite some time, but thinks it doesn't constitute yet of any scumtell or lurking. BH asks Zazie about her vote on Doc on post 59.

96: I choose to keep my vote on TownHP and notes that people should "have patience". I felt I needed TownHP to come out and address the things that people have been saying over his post, leaving my vote as a form of pressure.

97: Zazie posts another huge post, this time with content. She addresses BH's question on 94 saying her vote was initially a random vote but became a serious vote when she reread the thread. (I still feel she should have announced this earlier.) She asks Soveliss why scum would want to know about MO's. She disagrees with Seraphim who states that pursuing TownHPs statement for a lynch is "highly scummy". I get another FoS with my reason for voting TownHP.

98: I summarize my stance on the HP issue. I start to feel that TownPops was wrong in his reasons for voting for me. Looking back, I actually participated in discussions and shared opinions. I note that I initially thought TownHP's statement was pro-town to thinking it was a null-tell.

99: I answer Zazie's question for Soveliss telling why asking about the MO matters for scum.

[Tenchi]

100: TownHP finally appears. He notes that the mod hasn't answered his question. He also notes that it is important for town to know if there's an MO reveal or not.

101: TownDoc votes for me. I somehow misrepresented TownDoc (I should have omitted the "shared the same opinion part"). Still, at that moment, I felt TownDoc was somehow distancing himself from TownHP.

103: Soveliss gives me my 4/7 vote. He claims I tried to start a bandwagon against TownHP labeling TownHP as an "easy target".

104: I vote Soveliss for

1. Not paying attention to the HP discussion fully (selective reading) as proven by statement: "I dont know what the motives for the mafia or wolves would be for knowing this, but what would town find useful from knowing this?"

2. Accusing me of campaigning against TownHP.

I become annoyed and slightly emotional.

105: I address Doc's points.

106: Budja tells me to defend myself properly. I get another FoS but he then votes Soveliss. He notes that he initially follow-voted TownHP then is not follow-voting on me.

107: I explain my stance further. I explain that I was trying not to get in the way too much (being cautious with my suspicions) because of some Wiki article I read. Right now I think my original stance was wrong.

109: TownPops introduces his gerbil-poking method. He notes the following suspicions:

a. Resorts to extremely flimsy defenses, "I can't keep my mouth shut so I'm the easy lynch"
b. Misrepping Doc earns him scum points
c. OMGUSing Soveliss
d. He claims that in his history he always "does very well" as scum but "gets lynched day 1 or night 1" when he's town. What? If this is truly a pattern, it can't be one he should expect us to follow. He seems to be implying that since he usually gets by as scum and gets caught as town, then he's probably innocent when he seems guilty and is probably guilty if he seems innocent. All who think this is a reasonable standard for evaluation Tenchi for the rest of the game, say "Aye".

A and D - are horrible and came from emotion.
B - was an admitted mistake
C - It was not OMGUS. I had very sound reasons for voting for him. Read 104.

TownPops however says:

I'm not sure if that gut feeling came from me sensing him to be scummy early on, or me sensing him to be an emotional village-idiot.

110: Peter posts but just says there's a power outage in his place. Promises to post "tomorrow".

111: TownDoc lectures me on how Wiki articles are subjective and should be taken with a grain of salt. He encourages me to be my aggressive self (which changed a lot of things for this game).

TownDoc also notes that TownPops is being overly cautions and contrived on his suspicions of me on post 109, despite his analysis of my posts had no intention of being cautious.

112: Zazie explains to Soveliss in detail why MO's matter. She asks me a bunch of questions (which I will address later, or have already addressed) and also accuses me of OMGUSing Soveliss (which I didn't).

114: Budja states: "Tenchi is suspicious but lets not over-focus on him. Many people here haven't posted much of substance yet, so their is no need to rush. (not that anyone was rushing Razz, I am just suggesting we don't)". After the nudge to "defend myself properly", this Tenchi-Budja love starts to creep me out.

115: TownPops addresses TownDoc's 111. TownPops was worried that I had too many votes already. TownPops decided to say what he wanted to say regardless of whether I was at L-1 or not.

116: I address Zazie's 112.

117: I agree witn TownDoc's evaliation of TownPops on 111.

118: Wall-E votes for me to "see what it does". I suspected he was trying to poke the gerbil one more time to see what happens. I have 5/7 votes needed for a lynch.

Fastofrward to some drama and fun regarding me getting lynched on my birthday. I notice he DID give a reason for his vote. Wall-E is "simply unconvinced that what" I'm "doing isn't a huge clusterfuck distraction"

124: I was tired of everything. I said the unspeakable...

I said I'd STFU.

125: Peter fulfills his promise of catching up. He quotes the role PM and notes that we may be told of the MO since the role PM's state something with "eaten" for the warewolves. Peter teaches how TownDoc can be better with his alt. Peter addresses Soveliss and tells him that the MO could matter "slightly". Peter notes the Budja-Tenchi love. Peter says that he'd put me at L-2 if it wasn't a four scum game.

(OMG it's a huge post, I'm skipping all the stuff addressed to me since I will address it later)

126: TownPops unvotes and revotes me (I dunno, for the second/third time?) He notes two additional things for his case:

1. "If/when" word choice.
2. The STFU thing.

127: TownDoc notes that TownPops is jumping on Peter's case on me and that "the last paragraph is just bad. He's basically justifying a lynch on someone for being disturbing. "

128: TownPops restates the If/when thing. He further notes that if I implied I'm not mason, "a best-worst case scenario".

129: I implode. I summarize my reasons for voting TownHP and Soveliss. I give TownPops an FoS for the mason thing in 128.

130: Sekinj "thinks" that BH and I are classic newbies and he is willing to overlook some of our statements. He then thinks TownPops is most suspicious "for his constant wifoming and it seems like he is trying too hard to push a lynch that everyone else agrees with."

131: I thoroughly address Peter's case.

132 & 134: BH asks where I implied that I was not mason. BH defends me on a playstyle argument from another game, which is a bad defense (I say so p 134). BH also asks what was Wall-E's reason for voting me. (Although Wall-E briefly stated his reason as to my actions being a "clusterfuck distraction".)

133 & 135: Soveliss corrects me, which I respond with a EBWOP. My argument still holds that TownPops commented on my possibility of being/not being a mason is not very townie.

136: TownPops continues on saying "I don't think it's untownie to point out the remark. It is tangibly valuable info, that if Tenchi is mislynch he's not mason mislynch." He reminds me to lay-off the caps-lock

137: More Budja-Tenchi love:

That sounds good Pops but Tenchi appears to be a newbie and I doubt newbie townie would think to seen such a subtle signal.

I am a little unsure if a Tenchi lynch is in our best interests at the moment. Yes, he seems highly scummy but with all the focus on one person, if he is innocent, we have little information.

141 & 142: Wall-E asks whether "are you claiming mason, pops?". TownPops replies that he and everyone should just "leave it up in the air".

143: Zazie asks me and Budja a bunch of questions. (I'll see later if this was addressed.) Zazie notes that TownPops keeps on unvoting and revoting me. Zazie also notes Sekinj's 130 if I still count as a newbie when I said that I have played other games. Zazie votes Budja for "the comments where you want us to look at other players."

144: TownPops states that unvoting and revoting just means that I was getting more suspicious.

145: Soveliss jumps on the TownPos wagon. His reasons (paraphrased):

1. Pops constant unvoting and revoting of Tenchi is awkward.
2. The only reason for it is to try and remind us it's Tenchi we are supposed to be voting.
3. His statement on me being not a mason.

146: TownDoc notes that TownHP being "seasoned" is flawed. He states that "Regardless of hp's alignment, the question was an obviously honest one."

(The more I reread, the more I see why HP was NKed.)

TownDoc notes BH's defense of me using a playstyle argument

TownDoc votes TownPops for:
1. Jumping on Peter's case and eventually on my lynch wagon.
2. Blowing If/When out of proportion
3. Speculating on who are (or who are not) masons.

149: TownPops gets emotional and irrational:

So, i get in trouble for being not sure about lynching Tenchi, then when i become more certain I'm in trouble for that? *sighs* I'm not gonna retract or recant what i think about mason speculation. If the mafia aren't smart enough to pick up that line, we're going to win anyway. And it's not like the mafia is the only beneficiary of that information, a vanilla-lynch is a weaker mistake than a mason-lynch.

150: TownDoc mentions that the most pro-town thing to do is for townies who are about to be lynched should claim prior to their lynch (at L-1). "At least you have to realize how pointing out that someone is more or less likely to be a mason is anti-town. "

151: TownPops drops the mason talk and defends:

Right now my position is still that Tenchi is the scummiest player in the game. Some have said maybe he always plays like scummy town, but like i've said before i don't see how we're going to read him D2, D3.. if he plays like scummy town and every bad thing he does gets a pass from that.

Despite this, he goes off to pursue other leads.

152-155: TownPops finds another target: Soveliss.

He notes two things that he read Pops "mason post", corrects me, but fails to comment on the fact that talking about masons is early. TownPops notes the delayed response of Soveliss on the issue. He notes that he had two different intentions on the two posts. The question now is why didn't he fail to place his suspicion on his first post? Was he hoping nobody would notice and let the discussion go on? Or did he "forget"?

Apparently, he only noticed it upon "reviewing my and TownPop's posts and found TownPops more deserving" of his vote.

===============================

Takes a Tenchi timeout. That's my notes of my review. I suggest others do the same and cross check what I've written.

[Tenchi]

I got lynched for practically no reason but revoting tenchi. I kind of want to indulge now, since no one can earnestly use it as a tell now.

WTH. Don't lie. You were lynched primarily because of opening the Mason discussion (plus several other reasons found in my summary). Don't put that under the rug. It actually gives us as tell: you play messily, either as town or (possibly) scum.

Tenchi is rereading the thread and giving summaries. This seems odd to me. He's energetic enough to make in-depth summaries, but when more than 1 person votes him he starts screaming all caps and vows to STFU because he's a poor little townie?

Nope. I actually had the time to do this because:

1. I was initially playing this game along with two other games.
2. A few days ago, I got Nked in one.
3. A high-calibre newbie game (of which Zazie left, but apparently she remained in this one...) kept me busy with just reading and keeping up, and that game gave fell into night a few days ago. It's day again but I'll focus on this one until I finish my summaries.

My appeals to emotion has nothing to do in this game. It's wrong in doing so and I admit it (I was REALLY new here). But I believe I had not left any of my actions unexplained (despite some CAPS here and there). I know that it is my job to clarify things that I say and did.

Now, instead of

whining

and

telling soon-to-be idlers to park their vote

, why don't you try analyzing posts (like I do) or asking questions (like Wall-E)?

Why was he NKed, in your opinion.

He was OBVTown.
1. He actually didn't have much experience here (His profile says "Joined: 29 Sep 2008")
2. He asked the horrible question.
3. Our premise was scum would generally be more careful to ask the question. And Noob-Town would ask it publicly.
4. We made it into a null-tell thinking that scum would post such a question to put the whole town in a WIFOM filled argument hopefully hitting a townie in the process.

CONCLUSION: TownHPs experience (1) cannot or is unlikely to execute the expected scum behavior (4).

Doc was right.

[Tenchi]

156: I address Zazie's questions. I noted why I suspected Peter. I addressed my stance on Metas, among other things. I changed my vote to TownPops for twisting my words:

"For blowing out of proportion my message on taking a break from the game and having fun in my birthday into being unhelpful by refusing to defend myself."

I think that along with his mason-talk caused me to focus on TownPops and less focus on Soveliss.

157: Budja addresses Zazie. He notes that:

1. Soveliss is hopping on bandwagons with little explanation.
2. TownPops is overeager to lynch me.
3. It's not too hard to build a case against me.
4. TownPops is not scummy for speculating on masons since "in the way it was mentioned, it was weak speculation and proved nothing".
5. "We should not help the scum find the masons so it is best not to speculate as had been said before. "
6. I'm making "errors all over the place for people to use".

NOTE: Very neutral except for point number 1. More Budja-Tenchi love.

158 & 159: TownPops accuses me of refusing to defend myself. TownPops says his aggression towards me was provoked by:

a. His caps lock and diction bothers the crap out of me
b. Korts saying it was suspicious of me to consider (at least, out loud) that

I'm possibly wrong. I wanted to dissolve anyone thinking that I'm lynching him in a dissociated manner. I think he's scum right now, and if he is a mislynch i take whatever responsibility that entails.

A is something under my control but is not a scum-tell.

160: Annoyance ensues. I slap TownPops with:

1. I NEVER REFUSED TO DEFEND MYSELF. This thread is peppered with me defending me.
2. Me shutting up means A. I'm taking a break and B. Actually not overposting in the thread by repeating the same explanation over and over again. C. Letting you guys discuss among yourslves instead of me getting into the middle of everything.
3. LOL You "dug up" a quote, which I quoted and you should have obviously read. How ridiculous is that. Don't make us think you are doing work when in fact you aren't.

161-165: TownPops argues with some "Law of Syllogism" which is proven to be wrong/bad for two things:

1. The second premise fails: "Tenchi said he would no longer be posting. [see above quote] <--- Is this really what I meant? Or is this what you want to see? What did I actually do Pops? And what was my explanation for saying the quote?"
2. Invoking some fabulous name to add glitter to a bad case.

166-167: Sekinj addresses Zazie's question on me and BH being newbies. He thinks that BH asked a newbie question and I was giving a newbie defense. He notes that TownPops is the most scummy at the moment (no reasons given here though). I note that I'm not new to mafia but I'm new to board-only games. I explain the difference.

168: TownDoc accuses TownPops of "admitting that the main reason you are pulling points out of your ass to try and incriminate Tenchi even further is because I accused you of being wishy-washy (and)... is just silliness)" He also noted TownPops's Appeal to Authority.

TownDoc notes that I made an Appeal to Emotion and a meta on 167. I was just trying to clarify the amount of experience I have in Mafia in general. However, the Budja thing is another story...

169: Zazie asks Soveliss why "Scum would say that Tenchi is not mason". Zazie wants TownDoc to reveal who he thinks Peter really is as a meta. Zazie asks me a bunch of questions which I will address later.

171: I address Zazie. I address the question on the Birthday lynch. I post back to Post 156 to summarize why I suspect TownHP. (WHICH WAS WRONG ergh I checked.

I should have linked to the timeline on post 129 for my suspicions on HP. Now I wonder if Zazie actually checks my answer.) I mention again that I'd vote for either TownPops or Soveliss and Peter is at 3rd place.

172: TownDoc explains why keeping Peter's meta out of the game could potentially help town.

173-175: Soveliss answers Zazie's question (on 169). TownDoc explains that Soveliss shouldn't think of "what town shouldn't/wouldn't do" but they should think in terms of what "scum would do". Zazie notes that Soveliss didn't answer the question properly.

177-181: More mason talk.

Wall-E says my comment on TownPops speculating on my masonism is "This is the most significant thing said in two pages." First sign of Wall-E claiming that Pops is softclaiming mason. TownDoc asks Wall-E why. Wall-E says that only masons can confirm who and who is not mason, with TownPops's comment "X is not likely a mason?" I tell Wall-E to drop the mason talk. TownDoc says that Wall-E's suspicions of TownPops softclaiming mason based on one comment is "a very slipper foundation" and that both mafia and townies weak on theory have reasons to out Mason roles.

184: LOL.

An idea: Let's lynch the next person who says the M***** word.

186: Soveliss finally answers Zazie's question. Very conservatively in fact: "Many reasons a scum might say that. Maybe he is trying to see how Tenchi would react to it."

Odd he says "many reasons" but can only give one example.

187: Wall-E apologizes to TownDoc, with a kiss, regarding the mason talk.

188: TownPops admits that his aggression towards me is half-baked, and feels that he is being transparent. TownPops attacks me with me saying STFU. I still feel it is a weak reason to suspect me, especially that I didn't do it.

190 & 192: TownPops notes Zazie had an inconsistency. (I address this in 58 & 59, 97 of my summary). TownPops calls it a "double-standard".

191: Zazie reasks her questions:

For those wondering who still have to answer:
Pops: Can you also mention every comment of P? (Peter?) that you agreed with and why you agreed with those comments.
Budja: Why is Tenchi suspicious to you?
Do you think players are over-focussing on him?
Who else do you see as suspicious and why?
Who to you hasn't posted much substance yet? Why didn't you try to let them post more substance? Why does this matter to you?

193: Zazie addresses 190 & 192.

So, I need to unvote and vote the same player to announce that my random vote has turned into a real vote?

(Again, I still think she should have known better to just “assume” that we got what happened.)

Zazie then attacks TownPops with an inconsistency. She tells that TownPops voted for Soveliss for not speaking up (67, 69 & 72) and TownPops accuses me of being scummy because I voted for TownHP for not speaking up (91-93, 96). Zazie further quotes TownPops shakiness in voting for me quoting Pops “maybe I'm hunting village idiots and not scum” and “I think he's scum right now, and if he is a mislynch i take whatever responsibility that entails.”

194: TownHP comments

An idea: Let's lynch the next person who says the M***** word.

I like you kind of approach here. I also think the same thing that you do.

(Town)Pops is kinda bothering me as he's constantly "complaining" about "double standards".

TownHP then continues to ask a (stupid and well-discussed) question “Techni, why is it bad to speculate masonry at the time being?”

197: Budja confronts TownHP with an inconsistency in 194: Why say that you agree with Sekinj’s “approach” but then be oblivious with why we should not speculate masonry?

198: TownPops answers. TownPops notes that (1) Zazie should have REALLY announced the change of function. (2) Zazie should not use dismissive language to make a case look weaker. A case is a case and it should be confronted regardless of its gravity. TownPops explains that he and I had different reason for voting (TownPops votes me for keeping my vote on TownHp (despite timeline misunderstanding) while he voted for Soveliss for not speaking up).

The thing is, Pops and I had the SAME INTENTION for voting the way we did: I voted HP for not participating. TownPops voted Soveliss for not participating. We both left our votes to pressure them into posting.

TownPops mentions I should be lynched because I am either vanilla townie or scum (“not a power role of any-sort”).

TownPops affirms that he’s not wishy-washy. He REALLY thinks I’m scum.

199: Wall-E implodes with people posting who are not part of the game.

Wall-E mentions that he sees Zazie and TownPops as townies at each other’s throats.
He also says that he agrees with what TownPops and TownDoc often.

Wall-E asks Sekinj “sekinj: In your opinion, has pops increased his "excessive wifoming"?”

He also notes that Budja suggested a cease-fire without suggesting an alternate target.

200: Sekinj answeres Wall-E’s 199. “No.” He says he agrees with what TownPops says.

203: I explain to Sekinj why it’s bad to speculate masonry. I continue to challenge TownPops in accusing me of being scummy for saying I’d STFU. I said it was more important to address what I did in the long run.

204: Wall-E responds to me saying that “if that's all you've got on pops you're stretching way too much for my taste.”. It wasn’t that alone. It was an evolution of a case with the mason talk on top.

205: TownDoc lists his suspects, in order: (1) TownPops (2) Tenchi (3) Seraphim [excessive lurking] (4) Soveliss [slightly slow in comprehending the mason issue] (5) Budja [same with Soveliss] (6) ZazieR

206: Sekinj confronts Wall-E about “seeming to want to defend TownPops”.

207: TownPops clarifies the post I made for Wall-E (203-204).

TownPops replies to me:

Yes Tenchi, after that you continued defending yourself, rather than doing what you told us you would do. But we started this conversation because you were charging that it was invalid for me to say that you promised stop defending yourself. (i used the words 'promised' and 'charging' there to stop repetition of the word "said"). You did, in fact, say that you would stop defending yourself. I never said you actually followed your own words (what a straightforward thing that would be!)

I’m glad I didn’t notice that we can go on a semantic war on the difference of “said” and “promised”. I am not sure if I continued on to address this. If I didn’t then I think I agreed with what you said here.

TownPops challenges Seraphim to tell the group on what he thinks of me and TownPops and whether he agrees or disagrees on the case on me. He was also asked to paraphrase TownPops’s case on me.

TownPops mentions that he is still suspicious of Zazie. TownPops leaves the Zazie trail

208-209: TownPops continues on with Peter, asking him to reevaluate his case on me. TownPops also follows up on Peter’s suspicions on Budja.

TownPops further asks Peter to reveal his alt. He notes that refusing to tell his alt only benefits one side.

(I think he should keep his alt to himself. I still think that if we can play this game raw, without metas, then it would be better. I also think that in case Peter had a pro-town role, non knowledge of his meta would be beneficial for town too.)

TownPops also follows up on the random vote left by Peter and asks Peter to unvote or state his reasons for keeping it.

210: I restate my stance on Alts and metas.

211: I note the following things:

1. TownPops’s appeal to authority (TownDoc saw this first)
2. Wall-E discussing the M-word
3. TownPops discussing town power roles AGAIN after being warned the first time.

213: Wall-E asks me when he discussed the M-Word after he said that he’d drop it.

(I feel this is a leading question. The issue was it was obvious knowledge that Town should never discuss the M-word. Not, whether Wall-E said the M-Word before or after he promised to not say it.

The fact remains that Wall-E continued to discuss the masonry despite it was an open fact that we shouldn’t.)

214: Wall-E confronts TownPops for an OMGUS. Wall-E defends Soveliss for “making a good point” on Soveliss statement in 145, “constant unvoting and revoting of Tenchi caught my eye as awkward”.

215: TownPops concedes to Wall-E. He admits that his suspicions (152-155) were weak. He mentions he is waiting for Peter.

216-218: Wall-E LOLs at TownPops. Wall-E also waits for Peter, BH and Soveliss.

219: I confront Wall-E for mentioning the M-word, keeping in mind that he is trying to weasel his way out of it in 213. I post four cases wherein it was clearly mentioned that masonry was bad to do, yet Wall-E still did it.

220: I ask for a Seraphim prod.

222: Wall-E dismisses my case on him on 219.

223: I get annoyed and emotional.

224: Wall-E asks the leading question again.

[Tenchi]

Actually, there's two scum factions in this game. The other scum faction has a nightkill they can kill you with, so it's better to get shoot them. So you wouldn't shoot for obv town, you would shoot for a player you thought was scum.

This is the most logical thing to do for scum. I still feel that it is important for them to take out OBVTownies. We have two masons in this game and expanding their circle to three is dangerous (for them) especially come D2. If one other Townie recognizes this threesome, then four people can form a powerful voting block.

But at this close to winning/losing I think it's important for scum to target the other faction.

In other words, both of our strategies will work for D1 (IMO) but your strategy would work better for this D2 (since we have less townies). Had they hit each other last night, my strat would be better for D2.

But it's good to know it was your scum faction that killed hp.

Then maybe we are on opposite factions! *gasp* Glad you guys were more intelligent that we were and you got Doc out!

[Tenchi]

That said, you must still die.

I can't let that happen. If I do, it will be a scum vs scum battle. I don't really have a notebook for these things so I want to write them here. Then after my D1 recap, I'll settle for a vote.

Fellow townies, you have to help me out. Recheck the entire thread (cross check my summary) and see who has been sneakily doing stuff.

Thanks!

[Tenchi]

The way Tenchi discusses the NK borders on confession

I don't think my IQ allows me to do that. (Read: I'm not completely stupid and hopeless.) I just posted an observation. The motivation behind the NK actually tells us the priorities of the said group as scum.

[Tenchi]

Will post in within 24-48 hours.

[Tenchi]

225: Sekinj tells me I didn’t make sense in my case on Wall-E on 219.

226: TownPops jokes that he hasn’t graduated to 3rd grade yet – that I should explain even better.

227: DEADLINE IS SET

228: TownPops requests a prod/rep for Peter

229: TownDoc requests everyone to vote for TownPops

231: TownPops responds to the mod requesting rep/prods for Seraphim

232: I restate my case on Wall-E summarizing it with:

"Either you (Wall-E) selectively read, forgot (that discussing masonry is bad), or one sneaky scum."

233: Soveliss posts something weird:

I think it would be best to drop the mason thing as trying to build a case on someone using this is pointless.

I mean was he addressing my case on Wall-E? I thought I was the guy chasing Wall-E for the mason-thing? And now that we have discussed that talking about masonry is scummy, then should we not pursue hints of people sneaking in something about it?

234-237: So TownPops asks Soveliss this: What should cases be built on then, soveliss, right now?

Soveliss: I was thinking on you.

TownPops: Why are you voting me right now Soveliss?

Soveliss then consistently restates his reasons from 145.

238: Seraphim does a “quick reread”. He states he doesn’t like TownPops and restates Soveliss’s reasons for suspecting TownPops.

239: TownHP asks: “Uhh, Pops, why did you revote tenchi twice?”

240: TownPops is resolved that he is the day’s lynch (bad town play). He then bargains with town (looking more like scum) that if he is scum, he’d still have value to town since he is looking for scum of the opposite faction.

TownPops breaks down TownDoc’s 229 saying that TownDoc seems to have slipped with his “Dear Guise” opening. It sounds as if he was requesting his partner or separate scum group to follow through with the lynch. Or a scum requesting the rest of the town to follow through with the lynch (a request, a “plz” from the town). TownDoc gets an FoS.

241: Zazie confronts Budja with his dodginess in answering questions.

Zazie promises to address TownPops 198 later (the case on the random vote changing function). Zazie asks TownPops to analyze Peter’s post (I’m not sure which one).

242: Town Pops replies “I sort of analyzed P?'s post once, i'll do it again.”

243: Soveliss is bothered by TownPops’s 240. He brands it as “scum in danger”.

244: TownDoc addresses TownPops’s case on him on 240. He calls the case BS (after taking the case apart) and accuses TownPops of flailing.

246-248: TownPops accuses TownDoc of Ad Hominem (replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim)

TownPops asks TownDoc a pointless question.

TownPops then withdraws his ad hom accusation but goes on to explain his weak-tell on TownDoc. He mentions he is still waiting for Seraphim. He also asks everyone to remind him of the most urgent, outstanding question.

249: I Wikipedia Ad hom. I also encourage Pops that if he is feeling he’s leaving, then he should give a list of suspicions that can help us either work a different lynch, or (in case he is lynched and he is town) get a better, more favorable result the next day.

250: TownPops responds to my request at 249, but says he needs more RL time.

251: TownDoc reminds “hp, sekinj and blueheaven need to commit to a vote.”

252: TownPops continues to dig for suspects (we, town, didn’t give him much credit for this as we should’ve). He attacks Seraphim for his statement (somewhere earlier). TownPops: “How can something be null tell if and only if it's alone?”

253: TownHP jumps on the wagon and votes TownPops. I don’t even understand the rationale of his vote… “Saying someone is scummy because he revoted and then revoting twice?” Who was that “someone ” and “he”?

254: ZazieR asks me a good question: “Why is it good to speculate masonry?”

She also notices the absence of Peter and Seraphim. ZazieR reacts on Wall-E’s post and asks him to explain the second sentence (I don’t know what she was driving at):

“WILL THIS POST GET ME AN EVEN BIGGER FOS?!

I HOPE NOT!!”

ZazieR lists her top 3 scummy players: Budja, Pops and BH. (

1 Budja (tatatadum...)
-Not answering questions aimed at him.
-Voting as Soveliss saw hp's question as scummy (why Soveliss and not somebody else who gave comments about hp's post)
-Comments about over-focusing on Tenchi
-Saying Tenchi is highly scummy, without telling why he thinks this.
-'Keeping friends', better known as not scumhunting. He also gave his 'list' of suspicions once. However, his list had only Soveliss on it as Pops was neutral to him.
-His comments about 'Tencho making errors all over the place'.

2 Pops
-His first questions aimed at Soveliss (see his 3rd post)
-Bckpedalling
-Wanted to explain an unvote if Tenchi was at L-1. (See his 10th post which has to do with his ninth post)
-Still no analysis about what P? has said
-Doing the same of which he accused Tenchi of. (see his 12th post and his 36th post)
-The 'he's not a mason' part
-His post 36 reminds me of FL's post in Mini 646.

3 BH
-His comment about hp's question
-Newbie Defence regarding a newbie in his previous game
-Many times that he was online without posting, and now his 'disappearance'
-Meta defence on himself perhaps?
-His lack of scumhunting

256: Wall-E replies to ZazieR’s 254 telling her “it was sarcastic”.

257-258: Wall-E suspects Budja “for a "cease-fire" without offering alternate targets”. He notes he can vote for TownPops or ZazieR but believes TownPops is more townie than Z.

Wall-E addresses Sekinj's question: “@ wall-e: you seem to want to defend pops? why is that?”

Wall-E craftily explains his stance without saying the M-word “It was less that I was defending him and more that I was calling attention to specific things he's said that I feel are good for us all to notice.”

He repeats his suspicion on me (on 211, which I think I was clear on why I suspected both TownPops and Wall-E, and for my lynch “wagon” dying.) and TownHP.

Wall-E then votes Budja.

He then prods BH, Peter and me.

259-260: Peter and Budja ask for replacement.

261-262: TownDoc justifies that he needs to push for a vote since the game has been dominated by lurkers with discussion stalled. He mentions that “voting for somebody who is in the verge of being replaced is a cop out.” He then challenges TownHP to expand his reasons/reactions from his one-line justifications (which “seems opportunistic”).

264: ZazieR defends her vote and expresses she wants to lynch Budja (while waiting for what a Budja replacer has to say).

265: SekinJ votes for TownPops. He notes: “Pops had me pretty convinced of his scummitude until just recently. However, I think maybe he changed under the pressure, so he is still my best suspect for today.”

Changed better or for worse? If for the better, then why vote for him? If for worse, why use “however”?

266: TownPops expresses confusion(?) over the wagon on him calling it “mindless”. He asks town if they don’t mind him restating the case on me.

267: Seraphim expresses he’d vote for Budja if he wasn’t being replaced (voting for the ceasefire and the “feel of his posts”). He keeps his vote on TownPops because of the mason-hunt and his vote-revote thing.

268: Wall-E implodes. He explains that Budja asked to be replaced after Wall-E committed to a vote.

269: I know TownHP was town but I don’t know what he means in this one!

unvoting and revoting just mean i think he's getting even more suspicious

It's this one.

...

...

unvote

(You can clearly see my mistake I think.)

270: I answer ZazieR’s question on 254 by linking back to 203.

I express my interest on wanting to hear what a Budja replacement will say. I then encourage/give permission to TownPops to restate his case on me.

I then express my confusion over TownHP asking him who is he voting for and why.

I then prod BH.

271: Wall-E says if a Tenchi would push through, he’d vote for me. But he really prefers a Budja lynch.

272: TownPops restates his case against me:

- Using self-meta for my defense
- If/when
- STFU

(I think this is a weak case against me since one was driven by emotion and the other two very semantic.)

TownPops follows up with a suspicion against Budja noting that Budja also used a “confirm vote” similar to what TownPops was doing.

274: Seraphim puts TownPops at L-1 and asks for a claim.

275: Wall-E expresses his disagreement with a TownPops lynch. He says that he can’t say the reasons because it’s taboo.

276: TownPops votes Seraphim. He notes that Seraphim is:

…mistaken. I think he's empathizing/sharing minds too closely with a person who has stated multiple times why I'm scummy, his scumpartner who he's daytalking too. And i think he's joining that person in voting me, and already asking for a claim so he can gather night information.

Or maybe he wants to assert that he's "stated it a few times" just to conceal the fact that he has not said enough for this to be much other than an opportunistic bandwagon-hop vote. Either way, this looks really really bad to me.

277: Wall-E throws a BH vote because of lurking/disappearance.

278: TownDoc mentions he would have voted for me if it wasn’t for one of Wall-E’s posts (not sure which one.) He continues to note that TownPops is the best informational lynch there is. He then further mentions:

Seraphim's assertion of having stated his opinion of pops multiple times is off a bit, but not enough to stop the pops wagon

This is the same post where he mentions he’d say some things on Wall-E. (Not sure if it was pro or anti).

279: Wall-E replies:

What's the point of a claim if you're planning to hammer regardless? Faced with that choice, I'd tell you to eat me. Also, if you have something to say about me, say it. What's the point in waiting?

Good point but I am more interested by the “eat” word-choice.

280: TownDoc tells Wall-E to stop fishing (not sure what he meant by this). He also notes that a claim would be helpful but unlikely.

281: Wall-E implodes for not being sure of what he was fishing about.

282: TownDoc replies: “Fishing for information. Specifically, I will say what I have to say about you when I deem it will help the town. Right now it won't. I'm not attacking you currently so chill.”

283-284. Mod makes mistake. Day One ends and Day Two begins.

(I will reread my notes soon and cross check them with the current events. After that I'll state a case/set of questions.)

[Tenchi]

I will ask for a modkill if it only kills scum

or if it puts Townies in an even chance to win this game. *notes that Pops was prematurely lynched which was one point against Townies*

I think this game has too much lurking/replacing in/out.

[Tenchi]

chk sig

[Tenchi]

Pops, there are four scum right now. Why are you stopping at the "bandwagon" of lynching me? Do you have any other suspects, say... my "partner"?

Your aggression level and language has an apparent difference and gap from D1 vs D2. As if you are more confident this time around.

(VERY FLUFFY POSTS FOR D2.)

I am reviewing my notes now and tomorrow (its 11pm here and will post my vote)

[Tenchi]

OMG NO WAIT MOD ARGH!

Some issues and notes (from my notes):

+ SOVELISS
--- 73, 74, 75: Soveliss argues that knowing the method of killing is irrelevant.

Soveliss responds. He marks TownDoc's alt problem as irrelevant. He also notes that HP's question is more scummy. However, he also notes (which I strongly disagree with) that the method of killing is irrelevant. Zazie challenges Soveliss on why in this game that "a kill is a kill".

Soveliss notes that a town-player should not ask the way of killing since it doesn't matter for them (which I disagree again).

--- 76, 77 & 78: Soveliss votes on Townie for horrible reason despite discussion that it is a null-tell

TownPops says TownHPs question is a null-tell. Soveliss disagrees and says "its all we have to go on right now". Seraphim agrees with TownPops.

--- 103: Soveliss claims that I wanted to start a bandwagon on TownHP (totally untrue, I wanted TOwnHP to be visible in the thread). A false reason to give me 4/7 votes neded to lynch me.

Soveliss gives me my 4/7 vote. He claims I tried to start a bandwagon against TownHP labeling TownHP as an "easy target".

--- He also mentions that TownHP was an "easy target".

Hmmmm...

--- Late jump on TownPops wagon with second-hand reasons.

--- Evasiveness in 171, 173-175, 186

173-175: Soveliss answers Zazie's question (on 169). TownDoc explains that Soveliss shouldn't think of "what town shouldn't/wouldn't do" but they should think in terms of what "scum would do". Zazie notes that Soveliss didn't answer the question properly.

...

Soveliss finally answers Zazie's question. Very conservatively in fact: "Many reasons a scum might say that.

Maybe he is trying to see how Tenchi would react to it. "

Odd he says "many reasons" but can only give one example.

--- Posting something oddly out of context?

I think it would be best to drop the mason thing as trying to build a case on someone using this is pointless.

I mean was he addressing my case on Wall-E? I thought I was the guy chasing Wall-E for the mason-thing? And now that we have discussed that talking about masonry is scummy, then should we not pursue hints of people sneaking in something about it?

==============================

+ ZAZIER

--- Her random vote (on a Townie) that became a "real vote" .

She addresses BH's question on 94 saying her vote was initially a random vote but became a serious vote when she reread the thread. (I still feel she should have announced this earlier.)

--- Her failure to check my answer to her question in 171. It makes me question whether she really cares to getting answers or she just cares to be active enough by asking questions.

I should have linked to the timeline on post 129 for my suspicions on HP. Now I wonder if Zazie actually checks my answer.) I mention again that I'd vote for either TownPops or Soveliss and Peter is at 3rd place.

I look at 191 and she remembered to reask TownPops and Budja her questions. Hmmm...

===============================

+ BUDJA

--- The Tenchi-Budja love-affair creeps me out. I swear.


===============================

+ WALL-E

--- Strawmanning my observation on him (Wall-E discussing the M-word, after it has been a strong argument that discussing Masonry at D1 is anti-town). Wal-E then asks me:

...when he discussed the M-Word after he said that he’d drop it.

(The issue was discussing masonry even after it was discussed that it was anti-town. It smelt like scum wanting to bring back mason-talk to/with other scum. His question above, attempts to weaken this point by adding the phrase

after I said I'd drop it

. The point is, he said it when he was fully aware that he shouldn't)

--- "Eat" word choice (as opposed to "kill") on 279.

--- TownDoc accuses Wall-E of fishing on 280 (although frankly I dunno how and why. Can a townie reread for this for me?)

+ SEKINJ

--- 265: Confusing reason to vote TownPops(?)

SekinJ votes for TownPops. He notes: “Pops had me pretty convinced of his scummitude until just recently. However, I think maybe he changed under the pressure, so he is still my best suspect for today.”

Changed better or for worse? If for the better, then why vote for him? If for worse, why use “however”?

+ TOWNHP HAD A LOT OF STUFF THAT DIDNT MAKE SENSE BUT HE WAS
DAMN TOWN ARGH. (e.g. 269)

BIG NOTE: My suspicions do not include the lurker factor. I feel that some scum have been effectively lurking throughout the game, giving limited opinions and just agreeing on stuff as opposed to contributing much. I don't have much time for this game so if you are a Townie, I suggest you do that.

[Tenchi]

I haven't read much of D2 after my comp exploded.

My voting opinion:

I will vote for either Soveliss/HP (see above) or Pops/Blueheaven (because BH was somehow invisible in my whole review which was REALLY odd and the parking recommendation of Pops)

If needed to get a lynch, I will vote for Wall-E. I'm sure that if I go, town will lose another member. Wall-E has the most votes right now and I'll bandwagon if I have to to prevent my own lynch. Not to mention my point above on the strawmanning thing.

VOTE: Soveliss/HP

[Tenchi]

Mod: How many days till the deadline?

Will be back tomorrow. That post thingy took me a while. :\

[Tenchi]

The way Tenchi discusses the NK borders on confession

I don't think my IQ allows me to do that. (Read: I'm not completely stupid and hopeless.) I just posted an observation. The motivation behind the NK actually tells us the priorities of the said group as scum.

One of the strongest newbie scum-tells has always been commentary on NKs. There's something about the psychology of the game that typically prompts people to comment on their own handiwork. It's like that kid who fingerpaints a picture and isn't sure if it's good, so he stands near it loudly commenting on it to see who agrees or disagrees with his words. It doesn't matter much what he says, good or bad, about the painting, it's more the fact that he's commenting in the first place...

I elaborated on it because you asked me to. I didn't look for impressions on what my statement would say but the fact that, come that NK motivations would be part of the discussion to find who is who is scum, then I have something to say about it.

Motivations and observations on NKs bears more weight in this game as compared to other games, simply because we do know that two scum groups exist.

I'm having a hard time deciding if it's ethical to say, "I agree to a modkill only if it kills scum."

Initially me too. But I think that us/we Townies deserve a break from what just happened D1.

Wall-E. I know you don't want to do this but can you state in one post what questions you have for Seraphim

(I don't want Seraphim to have any excuse as to not addressing your questions. Seraphim is oddly not on my noteslist much just because he doesn't say much too.)

I LOVE JENETHRON'S CASE AGAINST SERAPHIM. Notes also Wall-E's relationship(?) with Seraphim

POPS REALLY DIFFERENT FROM D1. I SWEAR.

Mod: Request deadline modkill of Tenchi be the lynch for the day

Unfair.

Last/worst-case scenario.

Not even.

============================

I also want to add that Budja/SC has been consistent with the "love" they are giving me.

============================

I am reconsidering a Seraphim vote but I want Seraphim to answer first Wall-E's questions.

Yeah, sure, feel free to kill me.

Mod: I'm going to request replacement

I'm promising myself that this is the last game I'm replacing out of...

ARGH WTH???

BUT THIS TELLS ME TWO THINGS:

1. By nature, Seraphim is against himself replacing out. He'd not want to if he'd not have to.
2. I think something bad happened to Seraphim. Like his head exploding because of the latest two cases on him.

His request for replacement (promise for "his last game he's replacing out of") seems more like a strategic necessity rather than some real-life conflict/emergency.

[Tenchi]

MY NOTE ON newHP:

newHP has been consistent with his TownHP persona. Just agreeing with stuff and contributing nothing new to the table. Very conservative with his opinions.

newHP: Where is your big post?

[Tenchi]

The "strawman": I think you're misunderstanding the series of events. All I can do is prompt you to read that segment of the thread again bearing in mind that I did not want to discuss masonry (as you've pointed out) but still wanted to keep pops alive (as I've quoted previously).

I stand corrected. I forgot the D2 discussion regarding your attempt to clear TownPops as you were thinking he was a mason.

================================

HP/Soveliss: You have to do better than that.

Either you:

1. Just repeat what the person has already posted. (Which is pretty much known to everyone like "Tenchi thinks it's townier ").

2. Say an opinion and don't give reasons why you think so (e.g. "Post 104: tenchi appeals to emotion and voteshitfts and OMGUS "

3. LIE AND MISREPRESENT PEOPLE. LIKE ME.

WHERE IN 92 DID I "KEEP MY MOUTH SHUT"???

AND WHEN DID MY 104 BECOME OMGUS? DID YOU EVEN SEE MY REASONS???

And you call my "birthday reaction" "paranoia"?

Stop lying and spreading bad propaganda.

[Tenchi]

Addition to the HP/SOVELISS case:

You have also effectively posted in the last five days while being conservative about your "big post" and letting it slide. I had to vote for you and remind you about it.

You have almost effectively jumped on my wagon as the third out of fifth (3/5) vote. You have used second hand reasons for your vote.

Further, you have failed to address D1 concerns regarding your predecessor, especially that your predecessor was an early star/suspect but apparently, somehow a wagon or case seems to be... just not there(?).

FINALLY.

I reread all your posts in this game (it's not that hard actually). The gap between TownHP who was actually trying to ask useful questions and HP/Soveliss now is HUGE. So far all of your posts fail to to contribute strong/solid questions to your suspects and have been driven by second-hand suspicion.

I find that the last post was effort being faked.

I find more effort in TownHP who have asked questions like:

No one seems to have actually answered hp's question yet, which I find strange. Judging from the given role PMs I'd say we are told the method (The Werewolves PM says eaten while the Mafia's says killed)

I think it'd be very courageous of mafia if they stepped up and said "Yes it does; it's in my role PM"

Any reason you c/p'ed only the wolf pm?

Techni, why is it bad to speculate masonry at the time being?

Uhh, Pops, why did you revote tenchi twice?

HP HAS CHANGED.

=============================

I think the four scum are:

HP/SOVELISS
BLUEHEAVEN/POPS
SERAPHIM
(Argh Im not sure yet).

I will vote for any of these people.

[Tenchi]

Wall-E: Who are your "four scum" at the moment? We have four days. Can/Have I convince/d you to change your vote?

HowardRoark: Your post seems fixated on HP/Soveliss. Do you have any other suspicions on the other players?

Can I convince you to request a deadline extension?

Pops

FoS

:

I reread this and it made me poop my pants :

Wall-E, what would you think about a consensus lynch on Seraphim? His case is very good.

Why would Townies bargain with a lynch that everyone would agree on? If it is a solid scum lynch, there will (almost) always be dissidents. Only scum would ask a townie (perhaps other scum) for a "consensus lynch".

[Tenchi]

howard: we need a consensus lynch. no one else is voting hp, and we're deadlined

Um... no. I am playing against four scum right now. There are five of us and we don't need your vote.

[Tenchi]

howard: we need a consensus lynch. no one else is voting hp, and we're deadlined

Also, you seem want to convince us (Town) to find the most convenient and quickest lynch given the deadline situation as opposed to finding the most logical and intelligent lynch Town could make.

Clearly you are not playing for town.

[Tenchi]

HEY Howard If you're town don't listen to Pops's suggestion!

vote count

tenchi (3): wall-e, popsofctown, hp [leaves]
howardroark (2): jenethron, haschel cedricson
hp [leaves] (2): tenchi, howardroark
wall-e (1): blakadder

not voting: everyone else

with 9 alive it is 5 to lynch

[Tenchi]

Sorry for the spam, but I keep on forgetting things:

Howard, please reconsider extending the deadline for us to analyze this new mountain of evidence.

[Tenchi]

@Howard: Look at 272. TownPops restated his case against me, fulfilling his promise.

@HP:

Tenchi, why are you so... paranoid?

We are LYLO. I'm not voting for myself. I don't want to save myself by voting on Wall-E. If I go, Town loses. I have three days to do something about it. I'm not paranoid (except back in D1 when I was overreacting), I'm afraid of losing this game for Town.

@ Wall-E I had a few questions for you on page 22. Care to address those?

[Tenchi]

@

blueheaven

popsofctown

: Still 2/3 days until deadline. BTW, you never really posted a D2 case against

Tenchi

, but you are adamant about his lynch. How about a good case?

Actually it was a strong difference from TownPops and BH/Pops. TownPops was passionate and really came after different suspects given the fact there were four scum.

BH/Pops is fixated on my lynch as if he's thinking "as long as I'm not voting for my partner, I'm good!".

BH/Pops has failed to be the Townie that he was back in D1. Notice he's very succinct in his messages and conservative (as opposed to his aggression in D1) in his views.

[Tenchi]

What's the point of a claim if you're planning to hammer regardless? Faced with that choice, I'd tell you to eat me. Also, if you have something to say about me, say it. What's the point in waiting?

Nobody's ever said, "Eat me." to you before, Tenchi? It's a fairly common colloquialism here in California.

I'm moving there come March so that's a nice thing to learn a new way of saying disgust while referencing oral sex.

on 280: I have no honest idea.

Wow. This is totally getting nowhere. You are really not helping us here come I flip town.

Vote: Wall-E

I cannot risk a bandwagon vote on me. Although Seraphim is on my suspect list, I also noticed that BH/Pops requested the "consensus vote" on Seraphim, making me think BH/Pops is looking for an easy target.

[Tenchi]

I will vote on the following people again:

1. HP/Soveliss
2. BH/Pops
3. Seraphim or Wall-E (Im voting Wall-E right now because of his recent slight evasiveness and the suspicion of BH/Pops on Seraphim. And he has the most votes right now with Seraphim.

I'd rather vote for the other two above though.

)

[Tenchi]

@

Tenchi

: Why move your vote away from your #1 choice?

...

Deadline is about 2 days away.

You answered your own question Howard.

However, if more townies perceive HP/Soveliss as scum, I'd happy to change my vote even at the last minute.

[Tenchi]

@Howard: This is exactly why I'm asking for a deadline extension. I don't think we can solidly have a lynch two days from now. Especially with the deluge of posts against BH/Pops and Soveliss/HP (and somehow Seraphim/You). We need to get to the bottom of this together.

I ask you to rethink your position in asking for a deadline extension once again.

[Tenchi]

What is a PBPA?

[Tenchi]

Pops, can I convince you to vote for HP/Soveliss? Also, what do you think of the case on him?

[Tenchi]

With all of the crap being written in most of these posts, extending the deadline won't help any more. Moving a vote from your number one player to your number three (both votes serving as the second on each votee) does not help a person's case. Not responding to direct questions with simple answers looks scummy. An "I'll switch last minute" statement makes it appears as if your vote is pretty much up for sale. Scum has been doing a great job of lurking and throwing confusion into the works.

What questions do I need to address? I feel I have addressed everything thrown at me.

My move to my number three puts me at a tie with Wall-E. (Instead of "second on each votee as you suggested") There are four scum in this game, it shouldn't matter whether I move my vote around between 3-4 people. All of them could be scum. I could vote for my number 2 and it won't matter.

The fact remains that I want those people in my scum list lynched/killed one by one.

The preference is just an indication on who I am willing to kill first, if it was up to me. But since five of use have to vote together to make this successful, I'm putting in the open my other scum suspects.

I HAVE NO PROBLEM LYNCHING ANY OF THOSE FOUR (generally). But I also have to think on what my other fellow townies think is the best lynch of the day.

[Tenchi]

I have said most of my points in Page 22

The thing is, only Wall-E bothered to address point against them. However, Wall-E didn't address other points on other people, or reacting whether it had merit or not.

I was thinking of self-voting myself to prove my innocence and it might put more weight to the arguments I presented.

====================================

Wall-E: "A further debate" would be impossible if those people who are concerned: BH/Pops and HP/Soveliss, my two biggest suspects, continue to fixate on my lynch and don't address any of my points. Not to mention other townies who are ignoring my points as well.

====================================

If it's between me or a no-lynch, I would pick a no-lynch.

====================================

I check the vote count again and I saw that my vote on Wall-E is useless (I miscounted sorry).

Vote: HP/Soveliss

===================================

Now, if I get lynched, or a no-lynch occurs, all I can hope for is scum get shot in the crossfire. Else, we're screwed.

[Tenchi]

What is the basis of you thinking Pops is my scumbuddy, HP?

I don't think scum, in this situation, with only two people, against another scum group, can afford to bus each other.

Im thinking Pops and HP are on different teams. Both are scum.

I'm just banking on the votes of the other five players. They will either lynch me or save me.

@ Wall-E: I'm sorry but my post was really late. My computer died so I wasn't able to focus on the game. I really hope it doesn't end the next day, if it does, I feel I let you guys down. ARGH.

[Tenchi]

Um... I appreciate the help but...

What's the basis of this vote switch?

Right now we are 3-3. I need another Townie to save me. :\ Well two more. Or maybe some caring scum?

[Tenchi]

Nevermind, I miscounted.

3-2.

[Tenchi]

There's a difference between preventing one's own lynch by convincing people to vote for a better case and preventing one's own lynch by appealing to emotion and asking people to "save" you. I feel Tenchi's doing the latter. Furthermore, the town can win posthumously. If my own death led to the town winning, then I would be okay with that. Arguing too hard that you should be kept alive for basically the sake of being kept alive is scummy.

1. I have answered most of the concerns against me. The strongest "reason" that people have against me is APPEALING TO EMOTION and the "scum admission" I was scum.

2. On the other hand, I have given behavioral reasons against people who are
--- A. Fixated on my lynch.
--- B. Failed to answer my queries against them. THIS IS A BIGGIE since it gives you guys less information come my flip and D3.
--- C. Failed to contribute to any other cases except mine.
--- D. Has shown behavioral changes upon taking on a new role.

3. I am not afraid of my own lynch generally. The problem is, it's almost a LYLO situation right now that I KNOW I cannot be lynched this day, especially when I can show that there are more worthy people who can be voted against.

As a responsible townie, I think I deserve some credit for actually helping out even though I have done "emotional things" when I started playing this game. I think it is unfair to call it self-preservation when I know my lynch would kill this game for Town and puts the game on scum hands.

vote count

tenchi (3): popsofctown, hp [leaves], haschel cedricson
hp [leaves] (2): howardroark, tenchi
wall-e (1): blakadder
haschel cedricson (1): wall-e

not voting: everyone else

with 9 alive it is 5 to lynch

[Tenchi]

In case I go:

I question the absence of the Budja love right now.

[Tenchi]

There's a difference between preventing one's own lynch by convincing people to vote for a better case and preventing one's own lynch by appealing to emotion and asking people to "save" you.

(Reread)

WHAT THE HELL???

I just presented this who new case on Page 22 (summarized above, details on page 22) and nobody even addressed it. EVEN YOU!

ARE YOU BLIND? I EVEN REBOLDED ON PAGE 24 THE EXISTENCE OF THE HP/POPS CASE!

[Tenchi]

Don't be a hypocrite Haschel Cedricson. I challenge you to address the merits of my case against them.

[Tenchi]

Soveliss is my other pick for the lynch today, so he gets my vote.

Unvote: Vote HaschelCedericson

We are within hours of the deadline resolving, and you do some jumping like this?!?!? That makes

Tenchi

the vote leader and you are responsible for his lynch at this point with your unvote.

FoS: Wall-E

.

Unless Wall-E really has NO plan of saving me. And Wall-E doesn't really believe I'm a townie.

Either that or he has this weird plan we don't know about. :\

[Tenchi]

The Tagfail was pretty much easy to see if you were reading into somebody's posts.

Pops is selectively reading.

[Tenchi]

I say it was who my vote landed

on

that was the motivation for his own vote, namely his scumbuddy Soveliss/HP.

Do you really think that hyposcum Tenchi would bus Soveliss/HP knowing:

1. There's only two of us
2. There's another scum group who can take care of HP/me depending on who would live.

I'm not bussing Soveliss/HP and I'm not scum. Wall-E, I demand you show proof that we are together.

[Tenchi]

[BAH]

That was so screwed up LOL.

Good luck guys. I hope you make good use of what's there. It's a long shot but you can still do it... er... I guess?

Good luck!

(So sorry HP! :\ )

[/BAH]

[Tenchi]

(You are on your own guys. I have told the mod I will not replace back in for this game.

Get the ball rolling... it gets boring here in the peanut gallery!)

[Tenchi]

*says something really inappropriate because he is not in the game*

[Tenchi]

The setup was great but we just played horribly together (especially my noobiness). Had I had more experience it could have gone better for me.

Anyway, I think Wall-E deserves the MVP award. I'm kinda surprised he didn't get NKed N3!

[Tenchi]

that's kind of insulting.

Yes

I would have asked the same question actually.