Mini 747 Over.

[Khelvaster]

Uh, what's going on? I just joined the game.

I can assure you guys, Panzer is completely kidding. We are totally down with each other. That said, Revenge

Vote: Panzer

.

[Khelvaster]

Unvote, Vote: Nicolios

I have a hard time believing that Nicolios seriously thinks her post is relevant to this game.

[Khelvaster]

Unvote, Vote: Nicolios

I have a hard time believing that Nicolios seriously thinks her post is relevant to this game, as opposed to trying to red herring us. Panzer caught a fish, methinks.

[Khelvaster]

I'm still waiting for some sort of substance from:

Erratus Apathos
J Assassin

[Khelvaster]

EBWODP:

Zeenon

I'd like to hear what these three guys have to think about panzer/theinon/nicol before we keep going on. It's not good for people to get behind in games.

[Khelvaster]

I can't say that I'm comfortable with 4 votes on one person on page 2. Anyone want to back off of him for now?

@ xofelf- I don't think we're out of the random voting stage just yet, at least I haven't seen enough to build a real case on anyone yet. Have you?

Scum

SK has shown that his ideas of the opening are somewhat different from what other people like. He said he doesn't want a huge bandwagon, not that he is opposed to random voting in general. "Scum" is just inaccurate here. You jump to conclusions way too quickly.

Panzer, I'm beginning to think you're actually an insane Day cop. Because you could never get a scum report on Cephrir. He's too townie. Wink

Lies

I assume you're being humorous here.

To me it seems like a distraction. It's pretty clear now that you aren't a cop. So, what are you doing? I believe he's trying to push a case off of himself with this. Thoughts?
Vote: Panzer

What case?

Nicol isn't sure either--that's (part of) her point. The implication is that he's something non-townie, though he could be townie trying to WIFOM scum as well (at least, that's whay I got from that post.) Either way, it's complete BS.

84- TL;DR

Way to just totally theinin. If you had read that, you would have seen that he takes SK's theories on the opening as a sure sign that he's scum.

I'm still waiting for some sort of substance from:

Erratus Apathos
J Assassin

Scum

Bullshit. I ask for activity and that makes me scum?

96- I could lynch xofelf

Bullshit again: you didn't bother quoting that post, probably because it is *TOTALLY INNOCUOUS!* Xofelf was talking about how he thought Panzer was town.

106- TL;DR

Thank you for insulting yet another hard-working poster[/quote]

unvote, vote Khelv

This is the right way to go.

Yeah, vote me because I asked for some activity from 3 people. That's definitely a major scumtell?

FoS: Charter

That was an incredibly badly thought-out post you made there, Charter. In fact, I would vote you if it weren't for the even worse stuff that Nicol's post was made of. Although your post was badly thought out and, as a matter of fact, just plain stupid, Nicol showed that she either wanted a really fast lynch on d1 by trying to attack panzer or that she didn't know how to play the game in her posts.

That said, you're both equally scummy in my eyes for trying to get lynches for *terrible* reasons. Nicol, however, would be decidedly worse for us if she is town than you would be, judging by your two plays. While yours is bad, Nicol's was just idiotic: First says Panzer is a cop, then when that doesn't work, he says that Panzer's obviously trying something sneaky, neglecting the obvious solution that Panzer might just be playing as a good townie.


Actually, as I finished this post, I realized that Charter's post was even worse than Nicol's--Nicol is someone our cop should investigate or our vig should kill. Charter is accusing random people of things for literally no logical reason. It isn't even "bad vibe"; the reasons are completely vanished.

I'll go ahead and

Vote: charter

[Khelvaster]

Hoopla, if you can link me to that study that showed lynching scum d1 doesn't help town too much, that would be wonderful.

[Khelvaster]

Actually, as I finished this post, I realized that Charter's post was even worse than Nicol's--Nicol is someone our cop should investigate or our vig should kill. Charter is accusing random people of things for literally no logical reason. It isn't even "bad vibe"; the reasons are completely vanished.

Ah. Investigate away.

Uh, I didn't claim cop...

[Khelvaster]

Charter is, once again, being intentionally misleading. I urge everybody to reread his posts and strongly consider whether or not he is scum. My decision to vote him will be very hard to change.

MOD:

Does elf have non-role related set up info or is it just her knowledge of you that she'd be able to assert this so confidently?

also

FoS:Xofelf

for possibly having extra info.

That seems like a stretch to me. A scummy stretch.

Panzer is saying that elf might know something about the setup based on her role, knowing more than just what her role is.

I'm not saying anyone has info. I'm saying there isn't any way that a scum could have more game set up info than a townie.

I know you didnt claim cop. I'm just saying.

Uhhh, scum sure do have more knowledge about the setup than a townie. A townie knows their role, and that's it. Scum know (most likely) their role and two others. From this they can tell A LOT about the setup and determine fairly accurately which power roles may or may not be in the game.
I wish I had two votes so I could vote for you too.

Uh, hell no. Nicolios said *game set up info,* meaning knowing the roles in a game. You are distorting his argument to mean all game info.

[Khelvaster]

Cephrir: Are you serious about that being charter's playstyle? If you are, I have another question to ask of you: Does charter tend to contribute meaningfully to games despite this style?

[Khelvaster]

I may not be the best player in the entire world, but i'm trying to get better at this. And i have.
And if you want to see how i play as scum, go look at Impotence Mafia...and then any other past game i've been in on here will show you how i play town.

FoS: Xofelf

for claiming that this bears any meaning on how we treat you this game.

[Khelvaster]

Hey Khelv, why only the FoS on xofelf? How solid are you with your charter vote?

Cephrir: Are you serious about that being charter's playstyle? If you are, I have another question to ask of you: Does charter tend to contribute meaningfully to games despite this style?

Well, not intentionally misleading exactly. He just exaggerates a lot and usually sounds really, really sure of himself.

Since Charter posted his clarifications, I feel much more like he's a townie whose playstyle I disagree with. If you hadn't posted that, Cephrir, I would have pushed hard for Charter's lynch.

Unvote Charter

Unvote, Vote: nicoliosgotpolio

yeah, too out of the blue for that to stand up with no questioing. you just jumping on the wagon???

Sure, it seems like a pretty good wagon to jump on. Why aren't you voting her?

Unvote, vote: geraintm

Ugh...where to start? In a 12-man game, I find it *really* unlikely that nobody would vote you because of that. In fact, I would have voted you had I not seen what you were claiming to do with this. After seeing what you wanted, I am still voting you. If you were scum, this is an easy, no-lose situation: Either you post this and there's no reaction, or there's a reaction and you can jump whoever reacted.

Vote: Hoopla

Hoopla, stop it, seriously. I was *this* close to voting you before I realized that this is a bait to draw scum out. If I had voted you, it would have been because what you were doing tends to be a really scummy move.

[Khelvaster]

Hoopla, stop it, seriously. I was *this* close to voting you before I realized that this is a bait to draw scum out. If I had voted you, it would have been because what you were doing tends to be a really scummy move.

That definitely didn't come out the way I meant. I omitted a couple extra lines--I just now realized that I stopped posting mid-thought.

Hoopla, stop it, seriously. I was *this* close to voting you before I realized that this is a bait to draw scum out. If I had voted you, it would have been because what you were doing tends to be a really scummy move. This is a move I'd expect of scum: post something scummy, wait until someone reacts, then start hammering them hard. As I said before, it's no-loss.

[Khelvaster]

Nicolios, I believe you were the only person who took his fakeclaim seriously.

[Khelvaster]

I gotta agree. Taking on the weakest players and lurkers is definitely a scum tactic. I know I've managed to get a few people lynched as scum, simply from hunting lurkers. For that reason, more than any other,

unvote, vote Hoopla

So, essentially what you are saying is that voting for the worst players and the noncontributors is scummy, even on the first day.

I must disagree. If you don't vote for the people who made the scummiest slips, who do you vote for? Those who made the second scummiest slips? The best players? Those who are most active?

You're way too experienced for me to reasonably chalk this up to noobness.

Vote: Shadow Knight

[Khelvaster]

I wonder why Khelv didn't call me out when I said I didn't agree with lynching weak players.

Weak players =/= lurkers or scummy players.

Nicol is a weak player. SK is a scummy one, as is hoopla, for reasons I have previously stated. That's the difference, and that is also why I didn't call you out.

[Khelvaster]

Looking back, I have noticed a few responses from Khelv for me that I didn't notice at the time. But whenever this happened, it was usually because his response was intended to (can't find the right word) attack, but not really... Maybe intimidate is better. He was usually trying to throw all of charters posts back at him, and it may not have been his intention to defend me. I've noticed a real dislike for charter. I wouldn't say he's mafia. I think he's town, maybe with a power role though.

I was trying to explain that I'm not voting you because you're a noob compared to most others here. I am not trying to intimidate you. I disliked charter, but cephrir's post fixed that--I strongly feel that Charter is town, since I doubt he'd play the way he would if he were scum.

[Khelvaster]

Mod: Could we get a votecount please?

Cephrir, you are definitely on to something. It seems Zazier and EA both thought Hoopla was fine while Nicolios was scummy, despite the relative similarities of their slipups. Zazier was much more blatant about defending Hoopla, whereas EA didn't mention him once, so I'll

Vote: Zazier

Teaming up on noobs is a classic scumtell.

[Khelvaster]

oooooh, my bad, mod.

I didn't see a votecount that was posted last page. I feel so stupid now. Sorry about that.

No problem. Some changes needed to be made to it anyway.

[Khelvaster]

Erratus Apathos, while not voting for Nicolios, still suspected her while letting Hoopla off the hook. He decided to target the other noob, SK.

[Khelvaster]

You think I'm scummy. Instead of voting for me, you elect to vote for someone who defends me. Surely the crime I have committed (in your mind) would outweigh someone with opposing views to what I have done.

Also, why do you think nicolio is innocent?[/color]

I think nicolio is innocent because her posts lack the manipulative element I typically see in scum posts. She is using what sounds to her like good logic. Look at her posts, especially the earlier ones: she is really trying to figure things out. She's not pulling any of the typical noob scum mistakes of being overly defensive or knee-jerkish about things and she isn't pushing for bandwagons.


I feel that you are scummy because you're posting a lot of really highbrow stuff and attacking new players. The questions and opinions you are posting are, for the most part, "sifting" posts: you get players to generate responses, then you can attack the ones who have the weakest responses. It is something that I tend to do fairly often as scum--gambits/baits which lead to "evidence" which really is not accurate for basing decisions on.

The reason I'm not voting for you is that if I'm wrong, it's better for the town to lose Zazier than you. I'd like to see who the nightkill is and how the lynch turns out, then work from there d2. In my eyes, Zazier is almost scummy as you, but we lose much less if he's lynched than if you are.

[Khelvaster]

I'm busy atm, but I'll respond later today or tomorrow.

[Khelvaster]

Uhm, Khel? Please explain your vote again after you've taken a look at my quote:

As for now, I'm going to Vote Nicoliosgotpolio
In my opinion she deserves it more than Khel and Hoopla for the reasons given.

Above you see my top 3 of scummy players after I had read the game. I also gave my reasons why I thought that Hoopla is scummy. So where did you get the impression that I thought that Hoopla was fine?
Also, a 'I think W is (newbie)town, therefore I think Y is scum' comment is a classic scumtell, while my vote has a basis. Besides, from the look of your post in which you voted me, you didn't even look at my case against Nicolios.
It's also interested to see that you, just like Cephrir, only make a drama out of it much later after I voted. Why is that?

Actually, you're so damn lying and making BS cases against me and eratus.

Unvote Vote Khelvaster

Look at this:

So, essentially what you are saying is that voting for the worst players and the noncontributors is scummy, even on the first day.

I must disagree. If you don't vote for the people who made the scummiest slips, who do you vote for? Those who made the second scummiest slips? The best players? Those who are most active?

You're way too experienced for me to reasonably chalk this up to noobness.

Vote: Shadow Knight

Khel, do I need to make a detailed version of your lie from this post and the one where you voted me, or can you spot it yourself? I think you can also find out why your case against me and Eratus is BS from this quote, right? Start explaining!

You're totally right. After seeing you defend yourself, I can't really justify a case against you. When looking at your posts, I didn't see that you had a second page to your posts. Going back and looking at your posts again, you suddenly got *much* less scummy in my eyes.

unvote

@EA- Are you seriously telling me that you've never been town and gotten talked into lynching a lurker? If so, I guess I have to give you props, but I know I've been on both sides of that one. I have been both scum trying to get a lurker lynched and town being duped into lynching a lurker.

Yes, I've been talked into lynching lurkers. (I haven't been talked out of lynching lurkers yet, incidentally. That means you Cephrir.) But, if town can be talked into lynching lurkers, that must mean there is logic that can convince a townie to vote off lurkers. Why can't the player leading the way be a townie guided by this logic?

Not saying he can't be. I'm saying he shouldn't be. Town is here to hunt scum, not lurkers. While the two groups are not always mutually exclusive, neither are they always synonymous.

Okay, so if your point is just that townies

shouldn't

attack lurkers, rather than

don't

or

rarely

, why are you voting Hoopla for doing it?

Read through page 4. How is Nico not lynched yet?

"We're on page four and it's still day one? Do you guys even know how to play this game?"

nico still needs to be lynched.

Probab;y pretty self-explanitory, I would think.

Amazing: a six word sentence where one word serves as the message (the message being that he doesn't have to explain why he's voting for nicolio ) and

all

other words serve to dilute that message. For someone displaying shock that she wasn't lynched four pages in, SensFan doesn't appear all that confident.

(Of course, losing confidence here seems to make sense - she hasn't been lynched, so of course it isn't self-explanatory that she should be lynched. And yet, Sens maintains that it is, just in a much more waffly way.)

There is almost no way that Sens is town and honestly believes he is contributing to a Nicolio-scum lynch with posts like these. Today's lynch is still up in the air - if he was even half as certain that Nicolio is scum as he's indicating, there's no way in hell he'd be content to say so little to actually get her lynched, especially now when it's close to deadline and the votes are very close. Bottom line: SensFan isn't interested in lynching scum, he's interested in staying out of the spotlight.

Cephrir, you are definitely on to something. It seems Zazier and EA both thought Hoopla was fine while Nicolios was scummy, despite the relative similarities of their slipups. Zazier was much more blatant about defending Hoopla, whereas EA didn't mention him once, so I'll

Vote: Zazier

Teaming up on noobs is a classic scumtell.

Erratus Apathos, while not voting for Nicolios, still suspected her while letting Hoopla off the hook. He decided to target the other noob, SK.

Not only does Khelv not even know why I voted Nicolio (it was because she wasn't answering that one question), but he baselessly assigns me another reason altogether. And then he keeps harping on about how Nicolio and SK are newbies for no good reason at all. Newbies are just as likely to be scum as anyone else, so I assume he pulled this dumb "suspecting newbies is a scumtell!" shit out of his ass.

Suspecting newbies who really are playing badly, but still town, is a scumtell. You were trying to extort an answer from her out of one question that wasn't answered. She had no idea what you were talking about, iirc. Anyway, I shouldn't have mentioned you as being as scummy as I said. That was a mistake on my part. You've defended yourself more than adequately.


With that said, I'll vote for the guy I should have been voting for all along. You can reference my post on page 11 to see why.

vote: hoopla