Mini 747 Over.

[PJ.]

/confirm.

[PJ.]

Vote:Xofelf

Blatant OMGUS and she asked me a bunch of questions in my GTKAS thread.

[PJ.]

BUMP BUMP BUMP..

Alright, hmm, what will get the town talking, I'm Day Cop: I investigated Khelvaster. He's scum.

Unvote: Vote:Khelvaster

[PJ.]

@ZEEnon and Cephrir: YOU GUYS ARE HIS PARTNERS!!!!!

FoS: ZEEnon and Cephrir

@xofelf: because random stage was dragging

@Hoopla: Yes. And because Khelv is my friend who tends to be a chrinic lurker and took years to play pooky in MTG. Also, My awesomeness extends beyond the realm of One Shot; I acually can use it 5 times a day.

@ShadowKnight: 1) Surely no one would lie about a power role 2) Because I know T3H scums. Also, on your rant, No one is gonna counterclaim me. Period. Because Day cops are more rare then Flying Pumpkin That Shoots Lasers Out Of Its Ass.

[PJ.]

I already investigate you and zeenon Cephrir. You guys are scum like Kheelvaster. Unfortunately I got a scum read on Xofelf and Shadowknight, so maybe I'm paranoid day cop. But then I'd be just a crazy townie.

[PJ.]

FoS:Nicolios

Woohoo I think Khelv is right but lets see If I can get 2

Unvote:Vote:ZEEnon

I investigated you and know you're a scummy face.

@Geraintm: I'm actually trying to win you over, Is this not working?

[PJ.]

@Theinin, there was still awesome wifom in there but it was a joke.

seriously panzer, what are you up to? placing a 4th vote now, i have no idea what you are trying to acomplish. stop it

Why should I stop?

Why shouldn't ZEEnon have 4 votes?

Why do I have to be up to something?

Also, If I were to stop, what should I do?

FoS:Geraintm

I would like to also poke Xofelf. What are your current thoughts of the game? What do you think of geraintm telling me to stop? Do you think I should stop? And Why?

[PJ.]

unvote.

I'M done with my random.

Why should I stop?

Why shouldn't ZEEnon have 4 votes?

Why do I have to be up to something?

Because its getting kinda weird.
I don't see a problem with L-3. L-1 would be pushing it.
I don't know. ARE you up to something?
To me it seems like a distraction. It's pretty clear now that you aren't a cop. So, what are you doing? I believe he's trying to push a case off of himself with this. Thoughts?

Vote: Panzer

I was trying to get done with random by asking these questions to Geraintm(who ignored them). How is this is a distraction? I'm pretty confident that you're scum. First of all, your first post was seemed like you were just trying to be townie and ended up making a completely irrelevant post that reeked of this very thing. Now you've made another post, answering a question asked of geraintm and then replaying withquestions that are answered in an obvious fashion, as they are already in the thread. This seems like an obvious attempt at "trying" to be town, also with obvious buddying to geraintm.


Am I up to something? Yes. What am I doing/up to? Starting conversation so I can catch scum. What case am I trying to push off me? There was never as case on me.

[PJ.]

EBWOP:

Unvote Vote:Nicolios

[PJ.]

What do you think of what I said about Nicilios? His trying to be townie and blatant buddying?

[PJ.]

Panzer, tell me how what I said was buddying.

By answering a question not directed at you. That is giving possible scum an out. It is also protecting Geraintm from having to answer his own questions. Thus is buddying. Also Nicolios, what case was on me and how did I deflect it?

@Shadowknight: That is some serious cognitive dissonance but I'm guilty of that same thing occasionally whether I'm town or scum.

FoS:Shadowknight

@elf, I don't see anyone being mad at me beside Geraintm, who needs to answer my questions.

[PJ.]

It's all about pressure Shadow Knight. And i'm still saying those quotes were not the same, unless he spin doctored it. They seemed like major cognitive dissonance.

[PJ.]

seriously panzer, what are you up to? placing a 4th vote now, i have no idea what you are trying to acomplish. stop it

Why should I stop?

Why shouldn't ZEEnon have 4 votes?

Why do I have to be up to something?

Also, If I were to stop, what should I do?

[PJ.]

Umm...I don't like Charter or Khelv right now but Nicolios still is scummiest for accusing me of things that didn't happen and making entirely nonsenical post that leave her reaching for a townie perspective.

[PJ.]

That is incredibly scummy. I think lynching on info is terrible, because a town lynch provides very little info regardless of ties..A scum lynch provide vast ammounts of info, almost regardless of ties. Every townie should be tryng to lynch the scummiest player. Mathematics is futile in determing lynchs. You lynch the scummiest player unless a claim is made. A Good claim.

[PJ.]

But we most likely have 3 scum, like in most mini's. So linking still exist.

[PJ.]

It's fine, you're still scum though.

[PJ.]

MOD:

Does elf have non-role related set up info or is it just her knowledge of you that she'd be able to assert this so confidently?

also

FoS:Xofelf

for possibly having extra info.

[PJ.]

How would a townie have info? It was day start so no night actions can have had a chance to happen yet.

[PJ.]

Nicolios continues to be someone who doesn't fully have the reins here. She seems to be just posting to post but not actually making sense. Seems to just want suspicion to be else where and is really streching to make meaningful post but is failing terribly.

Charter, me and elf are outside of thread friends. I know her and KMD are very good friends. I was just giving her a friendly warning in a game related way. I know she has had issues of site with talking and I was simply telling her not to knock it off and not give scum any info they didn't need, and incentive to read up on KMD's games. I never intended to follow up on it with a vote cause it wasn't scummy. If anything it was more bait to get people to jump at and I fully intended on bringing to light these facts. I can assure you that she does NOT have any game info from our mod. I shouldn't of brought it up should of said something out of thread to KMD and had him tell her that I was concerned about her making comments that could be misconstrued she new the set up.

TL;DR: No more set up speculation and it's scummy to know things about the game out side of your role because only scum can get that info day 1 without secret source info. Also, you kinda spindoctored me a lil bit charter. Nicolios is still scummy.

[PJ.]

Mod:

I believe Khelv is voting Charter.

See rule 2

[PJ.]

Get replaced then. We don't need you're self-centered shit in this game.

[PJ.]

He's not reading or paying attention, simply he is waiting to be questioned because he is so damn self-centered that he feels he should be the center of attention. Maybe instead of putting the game on low priority because he isn't being questioned he should instead QUESTION OTHERS. Involve yourself dude.

On top of that his last post looked like a summary what more does he want from us. Either involve yourself or be replaced. If you don't choose, you will be policy lynched.

[PJ.]

Your forgot question 2 and 4.

[PJ.]

@Zazier, I was waiting for a reaction from ZEEnon still and I believe for Geraintm to answer my question. I got ZEEnon's reaction and thusly switched my vote.

@Nicolios, I was drawing attention TO myself, I don't see how I was distracting the town.

unvote: Vote:Hoopla

for all the BS she has spewed this last page. Seriously, You OMGUSed and have been going after lurkers and admittedly going after easy targets.

I switched my vote because Hoopla has a better chance to be scummy then Nicolios cause Nicolios' could be in newbie mistake territory and it is quite clear that Hoopla was intentionally trying to pick on weak players and is now OMGUSing Geraintm.

[PJ.]

It seems like you're avoiding them and I'm too tired to finish this post.

[PJ.]

V/LA until tomorrow.. I left last night..forgot to post

[PJ.]

I don't believe picking on weak players is to best way to get valid slips.

[PJ.]

Khelv he's only a goon meaning he has under 100 game post. It could have been 1 long game. He is reasonable noobish.

[PJ.]

I wonder why Khelv didn't call me out when I said I didn't agree with lynching weak players.

[PJ.]

WHERE OH WHERE HAS OUR

MOD

GONE? Vote count plz.

Coming shortly

On a different note: Although, I agree with ALL of Sens assessments I would like to know why he thinks the way he does.

[PJ.]

We still have 4 days, There is plenty of time for discussion. Also I'm still of the thought that you are the best lynch Hoopla.

[PJ.]

Yes it's for 187, I may have more to add if I check but No, I would switch to my second choice without it taking much convincing.

[PJ.]

@Cephrir: Why do you find Zazier more scummy then Hoopla?

[PJ.]

@EA: I'm finding Hoopla scummy because he simply wants to lynch weak players, not necessarily scummy ones. He is saying this under the false pretenses of day 1 lynching the person with the biggest slip and he wants to induce this by attacking new players and bad players. This is inherently scummy because only scum would want to look at reactions from a specific player instead of trying to get reactions from the entire game.

Also, in light of Zazier's post I'm gonna have to

Unvote: Vote Kehlv.

[PJ.]

The above post was Khelv not Kehlv.

[PJ.]

Way to rephrase what I said. You want to attack weak players in order to learn their alignment. Two ways to do that, make them claim or lynch them. What normal happens when A vanilla townie claims Vanilla? They get lynched. If they claim a Power Role then we've outted a Power Role. Neither are good.

[PJ.]

EBWOP: Also, by attacking weak players they are more likely to act scummy under pressure for bad reasons, so you're not getting "hints to there alignments" you getting them to look scummy.

Also I believe you were the one argueing that lynching a bad player was better then lynching a mafiate earlier in the day.

Major FoS:Hoopla

This will become a vote if Khelv defends himself against Zaz and EA to my liking.

[PJ.]

As a member of relatively good standing in the MS community I can attest to Sens not being lazy or shit. He's a decent player. He's not Jeep or Yos by any means, but then again nor am I so I can't blame him.

Only thing people have against Sens is that he(back when i first joined) got banned for using an alt and his old main in the same newb game. He was caught and banned. This was something he did as a youngin and it was like 2 years ago.

[PJ.]

On a diff note, Hoopla wouldn't be a bad lynch regardless of what he said about you sens.

[PJ.]

I am incredibly offended, but I would like to see you even

attempt

to justify it, given how it has no truth whatsoever.

Easy tiger, it's just a game. The main reason I think this is from an ongoing game we are now both dead in, and from reading through some of the newbie games you've IC'ed in. I encourage you to prove me wrong and show me your worth throughout this game. Maybe I have unreasonable expectations of people, but I have nothing to appologise for.

The burden of evidence is on the accuser.

[PJ.]

Alright..

FoS:Cephrir and Hoopla

both seem like scum trying to tell us the kill was strange so that people don't analyze it. I especially dislike how cephrir calls it arbitrary. Has very strong tones of trying to get people to overlook it.

WIFOM here, but what what if scum did it because all the people in the limelight are town? Wouldn't it be wise to kill someone that was seemingly arbitrary so that we DO overlook it and lynch Nicolios, Sens, Shadow Knight, ect.?

Vote:Cephrir

He was pretty under the radar, didn't really propose anything and pretty much lurker through day 1 and is now acting shady with this night kill buisness.

[PJ.]

might have been a cop trying to lie low?

This is wrong or he wouldn't have been telling us how he hates this game is lowest priority. Also he was paranoid. If this was known to him he wouldn't care cause everyone is Scum.

[PJ.]

So you admit that you were scummy and should have beat me to the punch instead of congratulating yourself?

[PJ.]

Well, not only are you scummy you can't help us therefore you are anti-town regardless of your alignment. My vote is not coming off of you unless there is a really good reason.

[PJ.]

Therefore you're anti-town because you can't help us and you should be lynched on that basis. Weeding at those who hurt us by being counter-productive.

[PJ.]

You stressed because of standardized testing? that's like..8th grade level..

[PJ.]

You stressed because of standardized testing? that's like..8th grade level..

Wow it really seems like you're just being a dick to everyone.

State tests are different for every state... I happen to be a sophomore not an 8th grader thanks, and passing this test is required to graduate. I was giving my reason for the absence and you had no reason to try to insult me.

That's the High school exit exam, Due to Bush and "No Child Left Behind" those test are 8th grade level. It's not tough. I took them not too long ago, I recal basic arithmatic being on the math portion. Pre Algrebra and Arithmatic. It shouldn't be stressing you out.

Therefore you're anti-town because you can't help us and you should be lynched on that basis

Often inaccurate =/= counterproductive

Fine

Panzer is looking mighty scummy with these recent attacks. Reread coming when I get a chance.

To elaborate, lynching someone to 'weed them out' is a terrible idea on day two when we had a serious lynch day one. The only possible explaination for this that I can see is trying to justify lynching a townie. So much so that

unvote, vote Panzer

It's called Policy Lynching. Yosarian does it. I do it. Farside does it. It's a null tell. Lot's of my recent games I've been lynching bad players. Although I understand that we should have done that day 1.

Unvote

[PJ.]

Vote: Nicolios

No use in argueing with charter.

Also, her day 1 play and her lack of content day 2 are troubling.

[PJ.]

Other suspicions? My other suspicons were Cephrir. If you'd been paying attention to the fucking game you'd know this. I've been on Nicolio since the beginning and I haven't been throwing my fvote everywhere. Only people I have Voted have been Nicolio/Hoopla/Khelv/Cephrir.

Charter you simply have a vendetta against me.

[PJ.]

[quote=ZaZier]As for now, I don't know what to think of Panzer. Yesterday, he wanted to see a defence from Khelv, yet when Khelv posted, he ignores it.
He also was suspicious of Hoopla yesterday, today again, but he votes for Cephrir instead, a player who he almost didn't mention yesterday. What's up with that? [/quote]


I might have been V/LA for it(I go v/la every other weekend). I did just re-read his post in isolation and still could find it(although I did find some pretty damn good stuff on Hoopla by reading through his posts again)

When I came back this weekend I did a tiny re-read on cephrir and realized he actively lurked through day 1 and between some stuff Zazi mentioned and his congratulating scum I was convince4d he's scum.

On my nicolio vote, She has posted any content in a while and everything I said day 1(which is in thread although Charter exageratingly denies it) holds true.

Scum List

Nicolio
Hoopla
Cephrir
Geraintm

On Hoopla, all of her interaction with Khelv is exetremely scummy and given he is town, I have to take his opinion into some consideration. Specifically how she was trying to trap people into commenting on her scummy play so she could attack weak players.

On geraintm, his active lurking and pretty much null contributions day 1 and now he's completely changing his cautious playstyle up and voting me very quickly based on me wanting to half-policy lynch Cephrir. Geraintm seems to have an aversion to conflict and votes those who create conflict, not necessarily scummy people(has he did in newbie 725. He was a doc in that game, but we all know that if someone is playing like a doc he could very well be scum.

[PJ.]

welcome back

Thanks.

[PJ.]

Woo scum fight! Is it just me or does the whole Panzer/charter thing look a little contrived? Carry on, gentlemen.

What looks contrived about it to you?

I also hated that comment

[PJ.]

What do you think I have done that is scummy. You simply are saying you don't like my play which is basically playstyle. I touched on this. You dislike aggressive play. Aggresive play is not inherently scummy.

[PJ.]

Panzer is clearly not scummy, but that's just my opinion.

(I don't agree that charter is necessarily scummy either)

[PJ.]

Since when is having an odd style of play scummy.

Geraintm definently seems like he is just latching on to whatever sounds good. He's slightly raising up my scum list.

[PJ.]

Quiet focused? hmm k.

Anyway, no you have focused on my style of play, not anything i've done scummy and you have pretty much just nodded your head to whatver charter has said. You haven't actually decided I was scummy for actually doing things that are scummy.

Charter gave real reasons, you gave BS reasons and then said ya what he said. Big difference.

[PJ.]

I hate when charter does this, but this is just the way he acts.(waits for him to switch is vote on me when the wagon starts to stall at L-2.

[PJ.]

No, please continue. I'm just saying, I hate it when you do it becuse it's incredibly scummy but I understand you are trying to get things moving which I agree with. I personally don't agree with that strategy and thus am Not going to imitate it.

[PJ.]

Why are you so subconscious of what the rest of us think? That is pretty damn scummy.

It's not OMGUS if you aren't typing it trying to make it some like you don't have an alterior motive, which you obviously do.

Unvote: Vote:Geraintm

[PJ.]

well..My role as day cop has a day vig clause that I can also use 5 times a day...

[PJ.]

a homosexual male.

[PJ.]

Hi Shabs.

Gerain, I expected you to man up and defend yourself instead of back down and hide behind OMGUS. You feign helpness because you don't want to actually have to make a case yourself.

[PJ.]

Unvote:Vote:Cephrir

Shabs pur what I thought into articulate and awesome form. Thank you shanba.

[PJ.]

Gerain, I expected you to man up and defend yourself instead of back down and hide behind OMGUS. You feign helpness because you don't want to actually have to make a case yourself.

i didn't back donw, i pointed out the posistion he had taken and he hadn't commented on me doing this.

but right now, you and shadow jumping a wagon so easily.
please panzer, show me where you had thought anything similar to what shanba has just said, rather than going "me too, oh my god a wagon i can vote for..."

That's the reason why you're voting me you fucking retard. My early play day 1 in which i was all over Cephrir and his active lurking and his poor excuse for not helping the town.

Unvote:VoteGeraintm

I am much happier with my vote here.

[PJ.]

Excuse my language, but you are excusing me of something ridiculous, and Shabs I am voting him for being scummy.

[PJ.]

No need for that language Sens..I'm gonna tell on you.

[PJ.]

FoS: SensFan

Srsly.

why do you agree?

[PJ.]

How is that in less anti-town then posting in rainbow print

Hoopla if you post in rainbow print after everyone defends you, I will cut your fingers off.

[PJ.]

Firstly, who cares?
Secondly, no one fucking uses tigers except cow probably but 90% of alls cummers don't use tigers.
Thirdly, Posting foreign languages that no one knows and has to looks up if they don't trust your transation as one could very well say "I DA SCUM"

[PJ.]

ebwop: at least 90% don't even if more then just cow use tigers..

[PJ.]

Charter..That's how I play. It's a nulltell.

[PJ.]

Umm...Don't know any recent games I've been town that are over...

[PJ.]

She was just having fun. When you said it was difficult to read she stopped.. Your post were obnoxius. And, you part of the majority in this game sens. Feel proud that you fit in.

[PJ.]

I screwed that up. I said Excuse my language, but you were accusing me of something ridiculous.

[PJ.]

oh prozac...

[PJ.]

1 ZazieR
2 geraintm
3 Panzerjager
4 Hoopla
5 Shanba
6 Shadow Knight
7 Charter

Original Roll String: 1d7

1 7-Sided Dice: (1) = 1

[PJ.]

Vanila

1 ZazieR
2 geraintm
3 Hoopla
4 Shanba
5 Shadow Knight
6 Charter

Original Roll String: 1d6

1 6-Sided Dice: (4) = 4

[PJ.]

Shanba Claims next (I will make 4 more post to solidify the order)

1 ZazieR
2 geraintm
3 Hoopla
4 Shadow Knight
5 Charter

Original Roll String: 1d5

1 5-Sided Dice: (2) = 2

[PJ.]

1 geraintm
2 Hoopla
3 Shadow Knight
4 Charter

Original Roll String: 1d4

1 4-Sided Dice: (1) = 1

[PJ.]

1 geraintm
2 Shadow Knight
3 Charter

Original Roll String: 1d3

1 3-Sided Dice: (2) = 2

[PJ.]

1 Shadow Knight
2 Charter

Original Roll String: 1d2

1 2-Sided Dice: (2) = 2

[PJ.]

so the order is

Panzer (Vanila)
Shanba (Vanila)
Zazier
Hoopla
Geraintm
Charter
Shadowknight

[PJ.]

so the order is

Panzer (Vanilla)
Shanba (Vanilla)
Zazier
Hoopla
Geraintm
Charter
Shadowknight

Also, who taught you belgian people how to spell?

[PJ.]

...4 townies...

[PJ.]

Not sure if I like that claim.but it's fair. Do you plan on giving us the investigation before night hits?

[PJ.]

FoS Panzer

for his claim

I'll look at Charter, because I'm not a huge fan of deja vu's.

Seriously.. vanilla TOWNIE. It's obvious you knew what I meant. It doesn't matter what the role PM said.

FoS: Zazier

This will probably turn into a vote.

[PJ.]

Oh, my pm doesn't say anything my sanity, but I would assume I'm sane, but I suppose there is also the chance I investigated some form of investigation immune role. So we will have to consider that if we decide on this person.

I still think Panzer is scum. His doubting my claim looks like a way of throwing general suspicion on whoever he can. I don't know how else he can explain that other kill unless I did it.

I don't believe because I also thought you'd have vigged me straight off. And JOAT doesn't seem right here. Also a one-shot vig, reg Vig, or an SK could fit, but it doesn't make any sense to pull a gambit as a Jack of all trades when you can't all trades. Not with 7 players left. At this point I am much more suspicious of Zazier.

[PJ.]

FoS Panzer

for his claim

I'll look at Charter, because I'm not a huge fan of deja vu's.

Seriously.. vanilla TOWNIE. It's obvious you knew what I meant. It doesn't matter what the role PM said.

FoS: Zazier

This will probably turn into a vote.

Hahaha, I so don't buy it.

Don't buy what? That zazie is argueing semantics to get a case started on me when this could very weel be Lylo?

[PJ.]

I think I'd like the wise Shanba to chime in with his thoughts, but I'm pretty confident Panzer is scum - geraintm for a likely buddy. Who's down for a Panzer lynch today?

Hoopla-Zazie scum team.

They are both very very eager for a lynch when it is most likely LYLO.

That's a huge reason I'm suspicious of Zazier. Semantics is not something you should use to try to push a lynch while we are in lylo.

Also Hoopla, please give me reasons as to why I'm scum.

[PJ.]

@Hoopla
I'd like to see more discussion first as Panzer is right about one thing, it's probably Lylo. And he could explain his claim a bit more.

Indeed, I'm very eager for a lynch

Missed this..Sorry. You are correct.

Still have a huge problem with the bit on vanilla not being in the role pm.

[PJ.]

Wow. No..I'm not.

[PJ.]

@Hoopla- I didn't think there was really any debate about charter's claim. I currently consider him the most confirmed of all of us.

Shadow, I wasn't talking about your thoughts on charter's claim, I was more talking about you deflecting attention from Panzer, and pretending to be suspicious of him. The below post offers a half defense on Panzer, then strangely you're suspicious of him too. To me, it looks like you're in two minds whether to bus your buddy now and try and get some town cred, or fight to keep him alive. It looks like a post to keep your options open - and almost something you could reference the next day for both sides.

I don't like the idea of using semantics for a wagon on panzer. Especially when I nearly said vanilla myself as I've been thinking of myself as vanilla townie all game. Between that and the exchange Cephrir and Zazie yesterday, and her general behavior all game, I'm more inclined to think that Zazie is the right lynch for today. I was on the fence between Panzer and Zazie, but I have to go with my gut on this and I'll probably vote Zazie.

Here's another example of playing down the vanilla slip;

EBWODP- Oh. Well yeah, I suppose that isn't good, but I had to actually check my PM again before claiming otherwise I might have written vanilla too.

It's funny how you're suspicious enough to have him in your top 2, but you're still trying to find excuses for him.

Shadow: what do you think about my previous post talking about a town Zazie. Does that seem logical to you?

Vanilla was not a slip. The vanilla bit is unimportant. I spelled vanilla wrong too. Would you like to persecute me for that as well? It's not like I've looked at my role PM lately. I'm a vanilla townie aka plain old lynch scum townie.

Vote:Hoopla

for really trying to capitalize on this "vanilla" thing

[PJ.]

How have I been worse? I've come at people who had the most ridiculous accusatons, especially ones that can only have scummy intentions.

@Shanba: I'm always erratic because I'm always suspecting somebody and I call people out on a case by case basis. I don't really know how I can maintain my playstyle and still call players out on a case by case basis. If that is scummy, I'm am incredibly sorry but I don't grasp how to change it or I would. it gets used against me incredibly often.

[PJ.]

I'm not answering zazier's question, not only was it incredibly scummy, it's against the game rules.

[PJ.]

Well, it might be against the rules. I've definately seen/almost been modkilled for dumb shit like that before. However, the fact that Panzer tries to spin that as an attack against her, when it was clearly a protown question, is why he is scum.

How is asking a question in which the answer will get me modkilled not scummy?

It's just as scummy for pushing for a modkill instead of a replacement.

You have just tunneled me charter.

I'm definently happy with my hoopla vote. What part of it's a modkillable offense do you not understand?

[PJ.]

Shadow Knight, you're trying to say that I can only suspect three people and that they can never change. This is ridiculous.

You're a hypocrite. That's what you've been saying about me. Howi attack all this different people. If i'm scummy for it, you are too.

[PJ.]

Shadow Knight, you're trying to say that I can only suspect three people and that they can never change. This is ridiculous.

You're a hypocrite. That's what you've been saying about me. Howi attack all this different people. If i'm scummy for it, you are too.

Yes, but for most of those people, I've actually made a case against them, rather than pile my vote on and leave it at that.

And if you're going to try and throw suspicion on to me, you first need to explain where that second kill came from, unless it was from a pro town JOAT.

I'm not. Your just a hypocrite.

[PJ.]

Also, we can stop this stupid discussion already. The mod has confirmed that Panzer is scum:

I've added samples of possible role PMs for vanillas to the bottom of my rules due to questions I have been asked via PM about people possibly breaking my rule about quoting role PMs. No rules have been broken as of now, but I feel that adding the PMs to the bottom of my rules makes things more fair. I should have put it there at the beginning of the game. But it's there now, and I'll say this. I will not guarantee that everyone got the exact same PM.

Also, regarding this quote, who wants to step forward that they contacted the mod about quoting PM's?

I PM'ed KMD asking about the legallity of the question you asked Panzer, which I then proxied to Shadow. It didn't break any rules - I'm ready to kill off Panzer and his buddy Shadow tomorrow though.

Vote: Panzer

I didn't see anyway that I couldn't break the quoting rule and as charter stated. he has been modkilled for things.

I've actually seen people modkilled for asking the question Zazie asked.

It's my general understanding that one can not use their role PM to gain an advantage in the game. Zazi clearly did so.

Also, I did not go to KMD about it.

[PJ.]

Bah I'm scum. Shanba and Hoopla are my partners.