Mini 747 Over.

[Cephrir]

/conform

[Cephrir]

Vote: ZEEnon

Because I know how he's going to type/post.

[Cephrir]

Awesome, we found a scum already! Everyone follow the daycop!

...Except not. I can't believe anyone took that seriously.

[Cephrir]

Starting out with a claim like that if false is dangerous on the off chance that there really *is* a day cop out there.

Chances are amazingly good that that's not an issue.

[Cephrir]

@Hoopla: Yes. And because Khelv is my friend who tends to be a chrinic lurker and took years to play pooky in MTG. Also, My awesomeness extends beyond the realm of One Shot; I acually can use it 5 times a day.

Wow, that's pretty awesome! Guys, I think we broke the setup! With this power we basically win barring a mafia daykill! I propose that we determine who to investigate by random die roll! Mafia must be packing some really amazing powers to counterbalance this role! I think someone needs to have a talk with the mod about what constitutes a normal game! !!

[Cephrir]

But if you're going to investigate me, I should warn you that I'm totally a miller or something! [/obvscum]

[Cephrir]

Shhhhhh, you'll ruin it.

[Cephrir]

But if you're going to investigate me, I should warn you that I'm totally a miller or something! [/obvscum]

hi obvscum

Unvote
Vote: Cephrir

Damn, you got me.

Anyway, I don't see any problem with having 4 votes on ZEEnon. If we never do anything interesting the game will never go anywhere.

I'll go with an

FoS: nicolio

because that post was really strange.

[Cephrir]

Theinin: are your comments about me in that post serious? If so, score one for atrociously executed buddying.

[Cephrir]

Just checking.

[Cephrir]

I'll catch up on this game today or tomorrow.

[Cephrir]

I knew people were going to find that comment scummy. Because obviously it's my job to get lynched day 1 or 2 regardless of alignment and it has to happen somehow, right?

[Cephrir]

Just a few quick comments on the last few pages:

I think that you're hindering the town's progress with your shenanigans.
And i really get a bad feel from your actions. You yourself said you're up to something and from what i've seen it's not in the town's best interest.
That the kind of thing you were looking for?

I don't like this post at all.

I don't know exactly what Panzy is planning but i just can't see that it's helping anybody at all. But I've been doing some thinking and i don't think he's covering by claiming day cop as scum, but that he's really totally powerless and is vanilla. I don't think he's playing the best TOWN he can, but i was looking over some of his past games and this seems to be the case. so for now, Unvote PanzyPants

This after basically nothing has changed with regard to Panzer. PLus, pointing out that you think he's vanilla? Awful.

That might not be the case, but for me, it's innocent until

proven

guilty.

To what extent do you mean that? I hope you don't mean that you won't do anything until we get a cop investigation or something. Normally I'd dismiss that possibility but you are new, and the italics... so yeah. Please tell me I'm wrong.

It's not lynching the most suspicious player that I think you should shoot for, than the one who isn't helping anybody or doesn't look like they will in the future. I think the best lynch you can have is one that helps as many people as possible at the same time. Though it is very difficult...which is part of the fun of the game I find.

Um...what? Lurkers > suspicious players. And the second half of this post doesn't make any sense.

And if you think I'm being useless in THIS game, you should have seen some of the past games I've been in, which the mod could attest to if he wasn't the mod right now.

...Is that supposed to make Hoopla want to lynch you

less

?

FoS:Xofelf for possibly having extra info.

Yeah, that's real suspicious... um, what?

Charter is, once again, being intentionally misleading. I urge everybody to reread his posts and strongly consider whether or not he is scum. My decision to vote him will be very hard to change.

In my experience, that's just charter.

scummy to know things about the game out side of your role because only scum can get that info day 1 without secret source info.

Meh, I'll buy that.

this game is very boring to me so far, so i'm giving it lowest priority out of my six games. how come nobody is questioning me? how come nobody commented on my last post? have any of you considered i could possibly be mafia.

Honestly I'm giving this post a townie point. Even though that doesn't seem to make any sense. But also yeah, what Panzer said.

I knew people were going to find that comment scummy. Because obviously it's my job to get lynched day 1 or 2 regardless of alignment and it has to happen somehow, right?

If you knew people were going to find it scummy, why'd you post it?

Well I didn't think about it until afterwards I suppose. That's probably one of the reasons I'm horrible as town. It's exactly the kind of thing that gets me lynched early on a regular basis.

[Cephrir]

Also,

Unvote, FoS xofelf

[Cephrir]

Cephrir: Are you serious about that being charter's playstyle? If you are, I have another question to ask of you: Does charter tend to contribute meaningfully to games despite this style?

Well, not intentionally misleading exactly. He just exaggerates a lot and usually sounds really, really sure of himself.

[Cephrir]

V/LA for a couple days

[Cephrir]

Why didn't you vote in post 149, Cephrir?

Playstyle thing, I guess. I generally don't vote lightly.

[Cephrir]

I haven't yet had enough time to do research to answer your question EA =P

I'm fairly certain it's happened but I can't think of specifics off the top of my head so that would require rereading every time I've been lynched early game. And that's happened in a firightening percentage of my games.

[Cephrir]

Hm. Off the top of my head, Hoopla seems like the scummiest but I still don't dislike his play enough to want to lynch him. Time to do some reading.

[Cephrir]

Oh, I almost forgot about xofelf since she was replaced.

Anyway. I think the nicolio wagon is too easy and I find its supporters mildly scummy. I don't remember the specifics of the case against her, but looking through her posts the only overtly scummy/off thing I find is the post in the early game that drew all this attention to her. It seems to me like one of those dumb things that leads to a poor D1 lynch because everyone latches onto it. It's not even that scummy, just bizarre.

Anyway, a few others rubbed me the wrong way a bit in my skimming of players' isolated posts but for now I'm going to stick with my previous suspicions as well as my general dislike of the nicoliowagon.

Vote: ZazieR

[Cephrir]

Sometimes finding scum is easy - you obviously must have some reason to think she is town-aligned or you wouldn't consider the wagon on her scummy.

Well I wasn't really sure how to put the vibes into words. Fortunately someone else did it for me:

I think nicolio is innocent because her posts lack the manipulative element I typically see in scum posts. She is using what sounds to her like good logic. Look at her posts, especially the earlier ones: she is really trying to figure things out.

Basically I think she seems genuine and she doesn't seem like noobscum. Obviously I could be wrong; I'm planning to keep an eye on her in the future but I don't think she's the best lynch today.

@Cephrir: Why do you find Zazier more scummy then Hoopla?

I'm thinking at this point (although I wasn't before I went back a bit) that Hoopla just has a controversial viewpoint. I don't know that it's totally scummy to want to put pressure on newer players. Lynching them is taking it too far, but when he says that he "wants to find out their alignment" or whatever, I don't take that to mean running them up to a claim, just getting reactions which I know doesn't say much about alignment when I do it.

But anyway, what are your arguments? You're saying that xofelf was suspicious, but you gave no reasons.

I gave some reasons for suspecting xofelf in an earlier post, and now deadline is approaching.

I was also wondering why you looked at xofelf's posts, but not mine, while I replaced her.

I did look at yours. I see only one reason why you suspected nico; there are probably others where you cite one of her posts then say it's scummy without using her name, so I don't know whose post it is and didn't feel like checking. It makes sense a bit I guess, but I'm surprised you haven't seen anything better. Could you go a bit more in-depth about why you think nico is a better lynch than Khelv or Hoopla?

It seems Zazier and EA both thought Hoopla was fine while Nicolios was scummy, despite the relative similarities of their slipups. Zazier was much more blatant about defending Hoopla

I think this post stretches the truth a bit (by mentioning EA if EA's comment on this in 271 is true, and when was Zazie defending Hoopla?) but I agree with the point.

The reason I'm not voting for you is that if I'm wrong, it's better for the town to lose Zazier than you. I'd like to see who the nightkill is and how the lynch turns out, then work from there d2. In my eyes, Zazier is almost scummy as you, but we lose much less if he's lynched than if you are.

So you'd rather lynch a slightly worse player (I think that's what you mean anyway) than a slightly scummier one? IMO that's rather weird and it's a lot like what Hoopla's being attacked for. See:

I'm finding Hoopla scummy because he simply wants to lynch weak players, not necessarily scummy ones.

I like EA's post against Sens. Incidentally I forgot that Sens was playing in this game.

Also, I'm very interested in hearing Khelv's reply to ZazieR.

[Cephrir]

I think I'm going to end up voting for Khelvaster or Zazie today. I'm pretty confident that at least one of them is scum and I don't like the other three-ish options.

[Cephrir]

Well, the way the votes are going makes my decision for me, it's obviously down to two options today. I still think people are overreacting to Hoopla and not really listening to her defense, and Khelv is legitimately scummy.

Unvote, Vote Khelvaster

[Cephrir]

Being suspicious does not equal trying to generate a wagon.

[Cephrir]

Then I guess Khelv was sane. That's a pretty strange kill, makes me wonder if we're all completely off.

It's gonna be hard to find scum in the Khelv wagon for me, it really seemed like the best one. But I'll have to check eventually.

[Cephrir]

Because I didn't notice, I guess.

[Cephrir]

Actually, didn't I comment when nicolio did that? 'Cause I'm pretty sure I noticed that one at least.

[Cephrir]

Why was that a straonge kill?

Because he obviously didn't give a damn about the game?

odd tone to this post, almost like scum congratulating himself

Yeah good job me, nice apparently arbitrary choice of nightkill. I'm so awesome, I think I'll congratulate myself in-thread.

Did what?

Hinted at what you believed someone's role was. At least I think I recall you doing that and so does Zazie.

@people who can't figure out why EA is voting SensFan: see yesterday, I assume.

[Cephrir]

Alright..FoS:Cephrir and Hoopla both seem like scum trying to tell us the kill was strange so that people don't analyze it. I especially dislike how cephrir calls it arbitrary. Has very strong tones of trying to get people to overlook it.

I have no problem with people analyzing it... I was giving my honest opinion.

Vote:Cephrir He was pretty under the radar, didn't really propose anything and pretty much lurker through day 1

I did a little bit. But yeah, this game moved pretty fast and I always have difficulty doing anything Day 1.

Scum wouldn't be likely to think Zee was a cop after a cop was lynched. Also, what Panzer said.

[Cephrir]

Being "under the radar" isn't scummy. I'm admitting that I suck at finding scum before one scum is dead (not much better afterwards, but at least I feel like I have something to go on and talk about).

[Cephrir]

I didn't say I wasn't going to try. Just that I'm a bad player.

[Cephrir]

Therefore you're anti-town because you can't help us and you should be lynched on that basis

Often inaccurate =/= counterproductive

[Cephrir]

Post coming tomorrow.

[Cephrir]

Every time he has an opinion it is his opinion. This is what I think about x. Not "this is x". This is who I believe is scum. Not "x is scum". I figured this might be a meta thing, so I've just now gone and looked it up. And he does speak about himself and his thoughts more than most people. So this I'm not certain is a scumtell after all - I still think it's a convenient way of not really having to get involved in the game.

Even if you hadn't done a little research and seen that I usually post like that, why would this be relevant? It's just wording choice. If you'd rather pretend all the 'I thinks' and whatnot aren't there, feel free. I'm not, like, intentionally using my wording to not get involved. If I didn't want to be involved, why would I play mafia?

But (and this part is not new) he does not seem to be trying to form any opinions in this game. We get the conclusions, but none of the opinion making process, with the exception of two posts of meaty analysis. He has barely interrogated anyone, never got his claws stuck in - there are plenty of rhetorical questions, but at my count only 2 real questions in his play so far.

True, I haven't had much of an opinion. Hopefully I will be able to remedy this soon, but a lot of shortish posts with a few large analyses is pretty much my style. It's just that there are usually a lot more of both kinds.

(As a sidenote, I massively disagree with his assertion that flying under the radar is not scummy.)

Actually, Cephrir: Why is flying under the radar scummy?

I'm going to assume you meant to ask me why it's not. Not making waves is a null tell. It indicates laziness, lack of time, or playstyle more often than it indicates a specific strategy as scum.

You know, I'm tempted to vote him myself simply due to his apparent inability to get in here and post something, although he has posted 15 times since his last post here in other threads (9 posts in another game in Little Italy alone).

He's also had time for a re-read in a New York game.

The bolded isn't true, not sure where you got that. It doesn't help that this game is a chore, but really all my games are suffering. Vote me for it if you want, but it has nothing to do with my alignment.

[Cephrir]

This weekend, probably.

[Cephrir]

FoS: SensFan

Srsly.

[Cephrir]

This is basically just random comments that I should have made earlier, but it's something.

This is going to be an ugly, almost random lynch if we don't actually come to some sort of consensus on who the best choice is. We need to decide now - I'm sorry if anyone wants to procrastinate for another few hours, but I don't want someone claiming something useful with 6 hours to spare. Come on guys!

I'll get this started - I've expressed nicolio is my optimum lynch choice today, but I could be persuaded to SensFan or Zazie. WAKE UP EVERYONE!

I hate this post. Seems like she's rather fakely trying to sound protown while also feeling out potential late wagons.

I know you have meta of being a shit/lazy player, but I don't think you deserve to get off that lightly.

Back that up right now. Or I will vote you, and will not move said vote today.

This and the vote following it are stupid. Maybe she was wrong, but personal offense is an atrocious reason to vote for someone especially given that there were legit reasons to vote for Hoopla according to some people yesterday (although I don't agree with said reasons), which means that this vote could be part of a lynch that maybe it shouldn't be. Yes, you do say later that those reasons are also a part of it, but since you weren't voting Hoopla before this that means it was this comment that led to the vote. The points made in 316 are all false exaggerations and/or not scumtells.

I will give you credit though, for a crafty play of sneaking a vote on me, without ever mentioning suspicion of me prior to me 'insulting' you - and then leaving it there (presumably until deadline) without providing any reasons at all.

Everyone, pay close attention to this. SensFan said he was "very confident" that Nicolio was scum, going so far as to say he should be lynched page 4. Then he hopped off to OMGUS me, and now he's hopped off that to OMGUS Hoopla, forgetting his suspicion on Nicolio entirely.

Yes.

I'm blatantly biased, but Panzer's attack on me (pg 15) followed by backtracking when he's called out on it is scummy. Then he goes back to nicolio which at this point, IMO, is an obvious fallback and a pointless vote. We're not going to lynch nicolio over those D1 posts, I think that's obvious. Hoopla 386 is right, that argument does seem a bit contrived. Incidentally, I'm not getting the same vibe from charter in this game as I usually do from him as town. Namely, he isn't being ridiculously over-the-top aggressive. After their reactions to Hoopla's comment though I don't think it points to a scum pairing.

On Hoopla, all of her interaction with Khelv is exetremely scummy and given he is town, I have to take his opinion into some consideration.

Specifically how she was trying to trap people into commenting on her scummy play so she could attack weak players.

What?

However, scum have a motivation to fly under the radar - they want to avoid attention, to avoid giving away their alignment, in a way that townies don't. Even if we accept your proposition that it is done for null reasons more often than scummy ones, simple math tells us that it is still a scumtell.

Fair enough. It's a stupid strategy for scum IMO and a really boring one, but I suppose some people probably do it. Lurking the whole game will always get said lurker lynched if they make it to the endgame (or it should anyway) so meh. I never deliberately lurk like that so I'm probably inclined not to think of it as a tell.

Hoopla, that text is anti-Town, please stop it.

W

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?

Actually, yes. It blatantly hurts Town.

Unvote, vote: Hoopla

Posting in a different color does not hurt the town, it just annoys you. Get over it.

Anyway, having a legit opinion will require player-reads, but for now

FoS Panzer

[Cephrir]

In before people start voting for me.

[Cephrir]

I read them, they're wrong.

[Cephrir]

But that's ok because Cephrir is

scum

always lynched by day 3, so we might as well get it out of the way.

[Cephrir]

It's not self-pity, it's a meta-related statement.

[Cephrir]

@Cephrir- If you had come back with a halfway decent scumhunting post, I'd have left you alone, but the whole "here is some random junk I should have posted earlier but couldn't be bothered to until it was no longer really relevant and I've had a chance to see what everyone else said first so I can make my thoughts unobtrusive" post just didn't satisfy my desire for content from you.

I know. Like I said, that was just the catching-up post. That's not going to be everything. Hopefully.

Yeah, I'm not contributing and there's no excuse. I should have gotten replaced a long time ago, and I apologize for dragging the game down. If I'm not able to post something substantive soon I'll get replaced.

[Cephrir]

Zazie, have you really not seen anything better than nicolios at this point? Even I've had a relevant suspect or two since that wagon was popular.

[Cephrir]

I'm sick of being accused of being scum for not voting. It's been happening in my other game too. I DON'T VOTE MUCH, I AM NOT TRYING TO AVOID RESPONSIBILITY FOR LYNCHES. Also, how can you possibly suspect me for "dragging someone else into the spotlight? Am I supposed to just sit here and get lynched?

Anyway,

Vote: Zazie

. I was suspicious of her before, and really, nicolio again? That's just sad.

Since I'm going to die today and I absolutely deserve it, I'll just say I get a bad feeling about Shadow and charter as well for no particular reason. I'll switch to Panzer if nothing has changed by the deadline because he's somewhat scummy and is certainly a lot more likely scum than I am.

[Cephrir]

Wow, Zaziescum voted for me, I'm so surprised.

I don't know why you're so hellbent on this "he didn't say anything about it until later" thing. It's not scummy, it doesn't even matter. Maybe when I reviewed, I didn't go far enough back to see a single post by you and only realized who you were voting when I saw the vote count. I saw your stupid nico case. It sucks, you're scum, end of story. Of course I Fos'd nicolio D1 when she made those posts, but we've had a whole 'nother day since then and things (other than your opinion obviously) have changed.

Zazie, charter, Shadow, Panzer in that order. I'd say to pursue them after I die but I know no one ever listens to stuff like that. In other news, I'm a miller.

[Cephrir]

Uhm, yeah, it's scummy. Look at your reasons for voting me. One of them is that I was voting Nicolios. But when i voted, you didn't point this out at all.

1.) I didn't notice.
2.) Sometimes people don't point out every scumtell they see instantly in the hopes of sticking it in a case later, so it's not scummy. I don't intentionally do this but I know there are players who do.

And tell me why you think I'm scum as you haven't given any reasons at all.

Look at your reasons for voting me. One of them is that I was voting Nicolios.

You do realize that's an obvious contradiction right? Also, yes I did a while ago, and you answered me so I'd find it hard to believe you didn't see it. And also, xofelf was scummy. You can say you can't defend against that and I don't expect you to, but you don't get a clean slate.

And look, AtE again. Die scum, die!

Truth =/= AtE. And I'd prefer it if you died actually.