Mini 743: Sanity Ensues - Over!

[Tom]

/conform

wait, what

[Tom]

I don't get much the title of the game, but well, let's start with this!

- This game is slightly bastardly, do heed the title of the game. You've been warned.

HEED IT, Magus. HEED IT.

vote: Magus_Stragus

IT MUST BE HEEDED.

(ooh, bandwagon...)

[Tom]

Its unfortunate that this game started right before a busy Saturday out on the town for me. But I'm here, I swear! (And it hasn't even been 48 hours, either!)

unvote

my joke vote because this Day 1 got rolling pretty fast.

@alexhans: I don't find Green Crayon's attitude towards Hohum too aggressive. The mood had just become serious, with the alexhans-Artem-hohum spat, and GC made a good point. If GC is too aggressive, Hohum is as well for the vote that he even said was going to get him some flak.

Its a bit of a different jokevote -> serious phase-shift for me; I'm used to the joking lasting a bit longer, but it doesn't really matter in the end.

I agree with the statements made about "gut talk," it always rubs me the wrong way when someone votes but doesn't outline any reasons like ZEEnon in 36, and even Azhrei in 44 though he didn't vote.

[Tom]

First, I don't think that Artem's first actions were scummy. I mean, the firsts pages of the game are usually for random voting to pick up reactions from the other players. It's true that he made several accusations, but it was in an early stage of the game. For me, it's just a tactic to gather more information.

/agreed with this. I chalk the Artem/Hohum spat simply as a catalyst that got this game rolling into legitimate phase as opposed to joking.

Second, I don't like how hohum (I believe it was him) is using/used previous games as arguments for this one. It is true that players may follow the same strategies over games, but I don't think it's valid arguments to use previous games.

I don't think it matters, because in the end, I doubt that Hohum will use meta from other games at grounds for serious lynching. By then, we should have established enough 'evidence' in

this

game that we won't have to rely on other games, but for now, it gives us somewhere to work from. I didn't even notice it as a problem.

Third, though Green attack may seem aggressive, I think that it

looks

aggressive due to the fact that it was done in the random/joking stage. A serious comment in the middle of a joking chat can be perceived as aggressive. And also, he explained why the situation.

Hay, thats what I said! :)

Fourth, I don't like lurkers. My opinion on them is that they're trying to pass under everyone's radar. Also, if townie lurkers don't provide with much help for the town, so, I prefer to lynch them over a contributing but a bit more suspicious townie. That being say, I'll cast my vote;

Vote: seb456zig

I think a good default position is to vote for the least active player when you have no other suspicions to go by (which can be the case on Day 1). I would much rather lynch a complete lurker than an active but slightly scummy person this early in the game. We still have lots of time to talk, however, so I won't be parking my vote any place just yet.

Unvote.

Well, seb456zig does post once after this, but what I was going to say still stands: if there is a player who appears to be regularly inactive, instead of watching them get lynched for inactivity I'm going to request for them to be replaced. This is because it would be awful to mislynch just because of stringent deadlines and someone is inactive, and wham, they were townie. Then, what do we say? "Oh well, there goes a townie and we didn't produce any real discussion to work with?" :( no thank you. Note that hopefully this isn't the case because like I said, seb456zig just posted.

And I do understand that a simple vote or two does not mean a lynch, and that you were simply applying your vote as a pressure incentive to make seb456zig become active again; I'm not accusing you of trying to lead a bandwagon on an inactive player, like it seems seb456zig has responded to you with that accusation. I just want to make sure everyone knows that we should replace inactives before we lynch them.

SKIPPING over the incorrect vote-count malfunction,

oh okay good,
i was about to change my vote ..

Curious, why would you changed your vote instead of simply calling me out with a FoS, HoS or IGMEOY? And how could you be certain that you made the correct choice 3 pages in to day 1?

I don't mean to answer for ZEEnon, but to add my cents to discussion, I know that I don't really use FoS (Finger of Suspicion), HoS (Hand of Suspicion), or IGMEOY (I've Got My Eye On You)

because I don't really see them as actually accomplishing anything. I know that it lets people know that you want to hear them respond, but if they are reading the thread, they should be responding to you anyways. They essentially do nothing, and instead I ask people questions or expect them to keep up with the discussion. Also, a vote doesn't mean you necessarily want to lynch them; pressure voting is a good way to replace FoS/HoS/IGMEOY and actually applying real pressure with a tangible vote instead of one of those three things.

FoS:Magus

because of trying to get me bandwagond for no real reason. Inactivity isnt a scumtell in my book, but i think posts that dont help the town are (like your one).

In my book, super inactivity should be replaced, but regular dodging of questions or soft-inactivity/lurking can be a scumtell. Also, the logic behind voting you was just fine; she (Magus is she, yes?) voted you to get you to respond and be active, and you did.

@ZEEnon: At first I thought you were typing in some kind of poetic or haiku form, but I've noticed that nobody has pointed it out so I feel kind of obliged to /poke you for it... you type funny. :P

[Tom]

Oh great you posted while I was posting. =|

[Tom]

I disagree with you here. In the course of the normal mechanics of a conversation people tend to ignore fine details which inherently means some stuff gets missed. That's why we emphasize certain points, and that's the role that HoS, FoS and IGMEOY play.

But its not like when you bring up a mistake that someone made, question their opinion/view, or chastise them, you're working with fine details that someone would ignore. If someone brings you up, you pay attention. I usually view FoS/HoS as unnecessary. Its basically... soft-voting. You can do that with remarks. I'm not saying they're useless, as obviously people use them often, but they literally do something that regular accusations can do.

Further, your instinct was right. You shouldn't be attempting to answer other people's questions. In the normal flow of a face-to-face conversation that is considered bad practice. Feel free to comment on someone else's answer, but don't jump in on their behalf -- it's just bad form.

Right; and as it turns out, ZEEnon answered your question before I chimed in my interpretation, so all is right with the world.

[Tom]

as i stated earlier,
i don't have enough to go by
in order to vote .
but if i DON'T vote,
people will view it as suspicious .
so my vote with remain with Artem,
until something comes along
to change my opinion .

This is called parking your vote.

You explained that giving a reason why you're not changing your vote until you see something else is called "parking your vote," Artem, but then you stopped talking. Is there something wrong with parking your vote?

@everyone: why do you have to post so much? every time i leave and then go back on the comp there's a half page of posts. I prefer slower games, but that's just me...

MFoS: ZEEnon

because of attempting to make friends. Why would a vanilla townie try to make friends? ZEEnon, if you answer this in a nonscummie way then i'll stop thinking of you as potential scum (for the time being)

1.) Why do we post so much? lol. We have a deadline of 10 more days, February 20th, for day one. The first post says that we must "do [our] best to respect the fast pace of this game." So we've got a bit over one more week to decide on a lynch that the majority is comfortable with. Thats a good reason to stay active and post so much.

2.) "Why would a vanilla townie try to make friends?" Why include "vanilla townie," at all? Why not just say "why would a player want to make friends/buddy up?" If you're talking ONLY about townies, why the qualifier that ZEE is vanilla? I found this to be sly rolefishing, especially how you pressured that if he didn't answer the vanilla townie question, you would keep him in your sights. ZEEnon's buddyness was definitely directed towards me, but you don't have to worry that I'm going to think of him as town just because he said "we can be friends," after I said "you type funny =P."

@Everyone: does anyone else found my low-content post so scummy? Am i the first to issue such a post?

Since you addressed everyone: I agree with the notion that your asking out loud "has anyone else not voted?" and stating "i dont see anything happening" made your post hollow.

i don't particularly care if you think of me
as potential scum. if i was scum,
i would definitely be concerned with my post
in order to stop you from thinking that, but i welcome it.
(although this also could be seen as a scumish plot
to make it seem that i'm not scum
because i don't care.. so whatever. lose-lose situation.)

lol, you WIFOMed yourself into a dizzy circle.

...this is a competitive game...

??? What The Heck

this isnt a competitive game, its a cooperative game. We are supposed to work together to figure out who is mafia and who isnt, not try and kill eachothere and be the sole survivor.

Presure

VOTE:ZEE

explain what you mean by competitive

I would like to see this discussion continue before I chime in (per Hohum's advice, I can already see myself intruding into something I'm not part of...)