Mini 737 - Hack Poetry Mafia (Game Over)

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I'm curious to know
how long this poetry will truly go
scum cannot keep up such rhymes
they'll certainly trip over their own words in time

Vote:Goatrevolt[/b
Your name is too strange for any ordinary townie

[Lynx The Antithesis]

EBWOP

Vote:Goatrevolt

damn tags

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I was thinking about replacing out with all of these rhyme schemes(I feel like I'm back in 12th grade English). It's gonna be nearly impossible to keep up with and people can justify slips up by saying that they needed to preserve rhyme.

I don't mind the rhyme once in awhile, but this way is just over-kill. I think we should just play normally with the ocasional flavor thrown in to the mix.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

What I don't like about the Budja vote is the fact that he said Wolf's vote was a joke, but joined Ice's wagon which was based on serious suspicion. I don't mind pressure votes or bandwagons to get the discussion flowing. However one done in this manner is unproductive. He basically goes against Ice's whole reason for his vote, and simply joins the wagon anyway. Then later tossing in the "spark discussion" doesn't help his case either.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I find it to be just a poorly placed vote in the first place. Like others have stated, pressure votes are basically cancelled out after making them out to be meaningless when you apply it. You can't side with the person then vote for them. Something which he did by saying he interpretted Wolf's vote as a joke. So there was really nothing at all to be gotten from Wolf. Considering that there's no reason to feel any pressure from a baseless vote.

This was something to push the town out of the joking random phase(which it pretty much did). I believe his spark discussion and pushing us out of the random phase defenses are one in the same and not contradictory. All in all I just think it was just a bad move.

Another thing is that I agree that asking him to tell what he expected to gain from such a move is hard to accomplish. There's no way to gauge what could have happened and we must keep in mind that he was cut off before anything could happen.

I'm gonna

Unvote

while I'm at it as well.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Surely you dolt, I'm not active lurking. I'm lurking lurking, which is not the same thing. I don't feel strongly one way or another about the things that are discussed, so I'm content with settling back and watching. I'm a patient person, and I like testing others patience.

Content in sitting back and waiting for someone to slip up so you can pounce on a mistake. This is not townie behavior. More like scum not trying to get their hands dirty.

Vote:Springlullaby

I am however, willing to accept Budja's retraction. I just get this funny feeling that he's being the scapegoat here...

...speaking of which, if he IS the scapegoat, I find it interesting that Goatrevolt is pushing him the hardest. It by no means is a scumtell, but if Budja just made a mistake (and taking Spolium's word for it, not for the first time), your case on him can be used as a misdirection by scum.

I think the ones we should be looking at, are the lurkers. If we are just townies fighting among ourselves, the ones winning is scum lurking and waiting for us to string up one of our own.

How is Budja the scapegoat at all? Turning this into a lurker hunt only gets us distracted from our current discussion which is very informational.

FOS: Fhqwhgads

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I feel more weighed towards Ice's arguments. I feel most of his points are valid, excluding the statement that since Wolf hasn't been talking it increases the suspicion of him. But overall, I feel Ice is giving off a strong pro-town vibe. The reason for this is because he's really not holding back in his distribution of suspicions. He's called out numerous people on their contradictions. My opinion, not fact, is that scum tend to limit their focus as to avoid drawing attention from multiple townies. Though this could be the aggressive playstyle of a new player, I still buy it for now.

My one grief with Spolium is the fact that by getting into the large argument about semantics with Goat, you basically spoke on behalf of Budja. This really spared Budja from true inspection. I do agree that some of his points came off as more defensive than from an unbiased townie's perspective such as the meta analysis.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Thought you weren't an active lurker? Well now you are. It's such a convenient excuse that you're happy to watch. The next end game I'm in I'll have to be sure to use it.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

@

Lynx The Antithesis

: On a scale of one to ten, where one is surely town and ten is surely scum, please give me a number quantifying your level of suspicion of Goatrevolt.

I feel like it's somewhat a estimation after only four pages, but I'd place goat at about a 4. His debate with Spolium was more over semantics and mafia in general. I agreed with his assessment of FHQ and springlullaby. I didn't mind him pushing Budja either because I believe it was the best course of action to bring the game to a serious level .So considering he's pointed out similar things to myself, and I know myself to be town, then I'd say I'm not too suspicious of him at the moment.

Things do change in mafia though. On a similar note, I don't really agree with the change of direction you've tried to create by your recent line of questioning. By shifting your focus you've evaded Spolium's response. You say that butting heads with him isn't helpful, which can be true if other players use at to shy away from participating, but it's still necessary to address points against yourself even if you don't want Spolium to be lynched.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I say it isn't helpful because our dialog has hardly even gotten a response from anyone else in the game. Spolium has a clear case of the OMGUSes, even if I wasn't actually voting him, and I can tell that no amount of back and forth with him is going to get him out of either the mindset that I must be scum for so vehemently attacking his position, if he's town, or the strategic use of tunnel vision to avoid other incriminating uses of his vote, if he's scum.

It is helpful to the town just look at Red Coyote's analysis of the interations between you Goat and Spolium. It gave me a feeling of your alignment as well. But now the swift change of direction doesn't sit as well with me.

Now on to your response to my question. Why is four pages not enough to have an opinion you can stand behind without calling it "an estimation"? Does a higher page number really make someone's posts more valuable for determining their alignment? I'd say Goat can stake a claim to a reasonably large proportion of the activity in this game, only four pages though it may be. You really seem to have tried hard not to take a divisive stance on this question. And your answer had to tie into you overtly reminding us of your own supposed alignment why, exactly?

I didn't take a positive stance because we know nothing for sure. I characterized your play as pro-town early enough. But sure enough something happened to change my mind about the call. It's only an estimation because in my eyes it's way too soon to settle on for sure town or scum.

Yes, a higher page count is more advantageous in reading a certain player. It's not even the quantity of the posts. Rather the way the player reacts and interacts to the numerous scuffles, arguments, suspicions, and pressure on themself in different situations presented through more pages.

The fact that I brought up my alignment was because it gave the main reason why I weighed him more towards town than scum. Since we both shared similar views and I know that I'm town. It only helped me gauge his alignment.

And lets just single out one thing which I find particularly interesting:

I didn't mind him pushing Budja either because I believe it was the best course of action to bring the game to a serious level

So, he brought the game to a serious level by pushing Budja and thats all well and good. What do you think of the content that this generated? Do you think Budja responded well to the pressure? Do you think Budja's response makes him more likely to be scum?

The content it generated was perfectly fine. Just look what it has evolved into now. Budja didn't get much pf an opportunity to be pressured. Considering that a large part of his defense was overshadowed by the Spolium/Goat debate. He really got off pretty easily in the way of people critiquing his response. I do believe he made a bad play with his vote rather than a scummy move. Though The way he took advantage of the other events going on to evade any informative response was scummier than what he was initially called out on.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

First off how the hell can don not know who Ice9 is? Either not really paying attention to the game and trying to act like he's contributing or something just severely damaged his brain since his last post.

Now I've been unable to post all weekend and probably most people were in the same boat considering that Goat and Spolium made up nearly all of the posts. On an ungame related note, Goat and Spolium, you post some really long-wided responses. It's a lot of work even reading so imagine you guys put alot of damn thought into writing them.

Now I've read over your exchange maybe three times and the main reasons for discussion surround the Fhq and Spring business. As well as the whole coaching thing. Well in regards to Fhq and Spring, I think Goat was in the right on both accounts. I think Fhq was suspicious not because of the coaching, but because the implication of his statement and the change of direction he tried to institute. First, to imply that Budja's was being pushed by scum was a reach for me. It was a good way to really get out of the random stage and his acted did deserve some pressure. I didn't like the switch to the attack on the lurkers either as we were already gaining useful discussion from many players.


On the same token, I do feel like Ice evaded giving us a response to Spolium. Now there may have been much in the way to respond to necessariy, but the rather quick transition to a string of questions came off suspcious to me. Those questions come off looking as pro-town and useful scum hunting. In reality, they really produced nothing in the way of useful information. I think it was just an easy way to escape a true look into his pressure from Spolium, while still maitaining an appearance of towniness. Now I don't agree with the "continued evasion" labeling of Ice because it only happened once, but I do believe the first move was certainly evasion.

I also agree that a few of Spring's attackers were hypocritcal for not saying anything about earlier discussion, then jumping on him when they weren't contributing either. I'm one of the people who attacked Spring as well. Though I felt I made my stance clear on the earlier debate. I'm not liking Spring's play now even more so now because any useful information generated from a townie pulling off such a move would have been revealed by now. Now he's just not giving us anything to get a read off him which is getting scummier the longer he stays quiet. Now's the time to tell us what you gained from simply "watching"

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Its not I thought you meant like you didn't know who was he was as in you never heard of him even with this game. Which made it seem like you weren't paying attention to the game if you didn't know who he was since he's a pretty key figure so far. Forget it now I took it wrong my fault.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I'm not sure how to take that replacement comment. Don't you want to see if I lurk all the the way?

No. How is that even fun for the game? Oh and sorry for calling you he.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

RC, Am I take it since you're still suspicious of FHQ that you don't buy his explantion in his latest post? He didn't address for me the points I found him suspicious for. Do you find Budja suspicious for the initial move or for his defense later?

FHQ, why did you try to shift the current focus to pursuing the lurkers. Usually lurker hunts produce little in the way of info. The only thing to do is pressure them to participate. Though Spring is a strange case cause despite the votes piling on her she still remains quiet. I think this continued lurking is suspicious cause it's obvious she's here she's just not adding anything.

Jebus, how did FHQ greatly recover in his last post. I feel like a few of your points are fairly vague. Others have asked for clarification on the Spring vote. I think it's just a pressure vote though that isn't that obvious. Who's more suspicious to you Coyote or Spolium?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

FHQ, why did you try to shift the current focus to pursuing the lurkers.

Look, I wasn't generally trying to shift the focus in as much as it was starting to feel like everyone was hyper focussing on Budja. I was in no way trying to give him a free pass, I just found that some people were just floating by, not even contributing to the Budja argument and thought we should at least call them out to get their opinion.

I felt your first post was kinda fence-sitting. You suggested that Budja might be a scapegoat and you found it curious that Goat was pushing him the hardest. It appeared like you were trying to avoid a strong response from Goat by saying that in no way did you find it scummy even though you were suggesting such a possibility(not trying to offend anyone). Though it didn't work because Goat's got his vote on you. As for the lurker part even if you weren't intending to shift the focus, it came off that way. The lurkers will be addressed via replacement in time. I find it suspicious only if the lurker continues to answer the prods, but still avoids adding anything meaningful. Then I would look into the case like Spring. I believe lurker hunts just aren't very productive.

Don, I don't know why you're worried about L-1. If anybody quick lynched spring, they'd be under strong scrutiny the next day. How do you think Spring should be dealt with if she keeps it up? Replacement?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Don, I don't know why you're worried about L-1. If anybody quick lynched spring, they'd be under strong scrutiny the next day. How do you think Spring should be dealt with if she keeps it up? Replacement?

Are you advocating spring be lynched policy-wise?

The only thing that worries me is that we have no idea what roles are out there, and I'll suggest here and now that maybe spring has something to gain through her own lynching.

I'm not exactly supporting a lynch with no response from her. I'm just saying putting her at L-1 doesn't frighten me in the least cause if someone were to put the hammer down before she could get a chance to respond or be replaced, then I'd be looking at them the next day. I think lynching to prove a point isn't effective. Are you implying a jester like role? I think mods wouldn't use them because it's fairly easy to get lynched, its somewhat a game breaker, it can end the game very prematurely, and its not really fun for anybody. Thats just my view on those kind of roles but utilizing caution doesn't hurt.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

V/LA later today until Monday.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Spring finally you have stepped up to the plate adding something to this game, thank you. Few things though, you criticize a good amount of players for timid play, then you throw suspicions around a few people. After all that you never place your vote. You say people you're willing to lynch, but you don't take a stance yourself and commit to somebody. Seems to me like you're waiting for more support on one of your suspicons to actually lay your vote down. Timid much? Hypocritical much? Yes and yes.

Though it comes off as pro-town posting a huge analysis like you've done, you've evaded any read on interactions with other players. By using this stunt, you've avoided participating in the random stage and chyming in with your thoughts on other player's arguments. Which kinda makes you the most "milky" person playing right now. You're lurking move doesn't clear you of that.

Last side note, I don't see how I was hypocritical for jumping on your wagon when I have been consistently laying my thoughts down. How is it hypocritical when I wasn't lurking myself?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Spring finally you have stepped up to the plate adding something to this game, thank you. Few things though, you criticize a good amount of players for timid play, then you throw suspicions around a few people. After all that you never place your vote. You say people you're willing to lynch, but you don't take a stance yourself and commit to somebody. Seems to me like you're waiting for more support on one of your suspicons to actually lay your vote down. Timid much? Hypocritical much? Yes and yes.

Though it comes off as pro-town posting a huge analysis like you've done, you've evaded any read on interactions with other players. By using this stunt, you've avoided participating in the random stage and chyming in with your thoughts on other player's arguments. Which kinda makes you the most "milky" person playing right now. You're lurking move doesn't clear you of that.

Last side note, I don't see how I was hypocritical for jumping on your wagon when I have been consistently laying my thoughts down. How is it hypocritical when I wasn't lurking myself?

1. You are mistaken, my non vote is not indicative of timidity, it is simply indicative of non preference in the names I listed. If I had multiple votes, I would be voting all of them. I'm amending my read of Az here because I did indeed miss that he has asked for replacement, but consider that I'm committed to all three.

2. I'm not accusing you of being hypocrite for jumping on my wagon, my accusation stem from the fact that you did so, yet criticized others for doing the same.

Case in point post 78:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &&start=75

In that post you manage to vote me for lurking and FOS gads for wanting lurkerhunt in the next paragraph.

3. As for my "evading interaction blabla", I think your complaint is pointless and rather after the fact. I made a choice in how I wanted to play this game, you make up your own mind on whether you think it's scummy or not.

1.Saying you're suspicious of multiple people is fine. What I can pose to you now is who do you find the the most suspicious out of the three? Usually indicative of the vote you cast, but seeing as you didn't place your vote I'd like to know who you believe is the optimal lynch out of the three and why.

2. Calling out people for not posting and people who are clearly here and not posting are two completely different things. I don't know why the others were inactive or most people I consider it a null tell when it happens. When you deliberately chose to be quiet it was suspicious to me.

3. It's evident I already have.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I've stated how making such a move clears you of any early player interactions along with the fact that coming in with a big player analysis comes off trying to look pro-town to me. The big problem I have is that a move like yours allows you to avoid getting a read on you.

Besides you FHQ and I wasn't liking Ice's play before he went inactive.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Who said anything about a definite and irreovcable offence? Any suspicion of mine can be retracted or changed based upon how the player acts throughout the game. The fact that you attempted such a move can easily be attempted by scum or town. Considering that I've never played with you I have no way of knowing what type of player you are(Daring, inventive, concise, etc.). So that move came off suspicious to me. That certainly doesn't mean it's set in stone and I will never change my sights. You're just most suspicious to me now. Hence, my vote.

You are letting me read you now which may give me greater inside into your alignment. Which is a plus.

I'm not getting your last question. Care to clarify?

Don's vote seems more like OMGUS to me and not for scumminess. The sumg part doesn't add anything to your case either. You're quick to turn on her once she's thrown some suspcion your way. Who else did spring misrepresent?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I take back the OMGUS part on Don since he's added more to his case... simulpost. Still like to know who else you think she misrepresented in the analysis though.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

You asked me who else I find suspicious and I said who else I find suspicious...

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Ok, let hit the slow recap because this may be ground for misunderstanding.

Besides you FHQ and I wasn't liking Ice's play before he went inactive.

I take this sentence to signify:

" Beside from being suspicious of you (spring), FHQ and I (lynx) weren't liking Ice's play."

Is that correct?

Haha no definitely definitely my fault for the misunderstanding. This is how it should have gone. "Besides you FHQ. And I wasn't like Ice's play before he went inactive." Sorry about that.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I'd like to point out that Budja, FHQ, and Spring have all still not placed a serious vote in this game. Perhaps Spring's lack of a real vote can be chalked up to her lurking move. Though failing to vote in her huge post does stand out to me still where she casts suspicion in several directions. I think FHQ and Budja are even worse with this fact. Fhq has posted several times with a no strong stance on who he wants to be lynched. I think he said Don in one post though he hasn't followed up on it whatsoever. Strangely, I do agree with all the points he presented in his last post(227). I'm just not sure where he stands suspicion wise with no voting pattern to look at. Another thing that I find suspcious is that he wanted to pressure the lurkers to talk, but he never he used a vote on anyone of them to draw them out.

Budja has done the same thing. He just recently removed his "random vote." And speaking of random vote, I do find it very peculiar that he deemed his vote "random." I really lost suspicion for his initial vote earlier in this game. However, his defense of said vote has really made up for that. First he said it was to escape the RVS. Then, he classifies it as bad play since he declared that the vote was pretty much useless when he applied it. A little after that he said he was trying to spark discussion and scum tells. And now, he just deems it another random vote. Don't think that we've forgotten that vote Budja because we haven't. I just don't know whether to place it as poor play or a genuine backpeddaling. You have moved back up on my scumlist nonetheless.

A policy lynch should not even be considered at this point. I think we definitely have enough info to pick out a proper lynch candidate.

Budja and FHQ who are your top candidates for a lynch. Who are you most willing to lynch and what is holding you back from laying your vote on that person?

Spolium shut up you're gonna give us up with slips like that haha...Seriously though, you aren't voting. Who's your prime lynch candidate in face of a deadline?

Jebus you unvoted Spring. Now are you back to looking at Coyote and Spolium? Or has anyone else caught your eye?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

God damn it all! I had a pretty damn big post about Spring which I will not be typing again. It is a bit of a rehash of info and only regards to the WIFOM of her move so its not worth wasting the time retyping.

Anyway what I did say was that

I support the deadline

Alot of players have been inactive so an extension wouldn't hurt. We wouldn't have any real read on these players on Day 2(Plonky, Azhrei, Ice). Plus, Budja and Jebus haven't posted in awhile.

Don, why the unvote? You seemed pretty set on Spring as scum. She wasn't in any real imminent danger of being lynched.

If the deadline stays intact. I'd certainly like to hear from Bujda before I make my final decision on who is the better candidate of the two. Spring has defended herself a good amount. Budja...not so much.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

EBWOP:

I SUPPORT DEADLINE EXTENSION, NOT THE DEADLINE

[Lynx The Antithesis]

My point, and someone already made it, i forget who, is that she first tried to brashly not take part in the game. When that strategy started to fail, she obviously reread the thread and threw together that post, selling it to us as her 'notes she made during the game'.

QFT this was my thinking exactly and I wrote something similiar to it in the post that I lost. I think If Spring is scum with her play she thought she could either
a)Fly under the radar if no one pressed her for deliberately lurking. Allowing no one to get a read on her.
b)play it off as a townie trying to generate info if the gambit failed.
Either way there was a play

Since course A failed her only option was to take the second route. So she created a long player analysis(which comes very seemingly pro-town)

after

she got called out, not while the events transpired. Now I don't agree that the post is ripe with misrepresentations, though I do agree it is somewhat vague(considering many players are classified the same way). But a post of that magnitude is going to be vague from scum and town alike I'd think.

Coyote, I think not buying a case is one thing, but to go this much out of your way to stand up for Spring is a little much.

FOS:RedCoyote

[Lynx The Antithesis]

a) This is fairly weak. It seems evident to me that it is impossible to impugn on me the intention of "flying under the radar", given that the first post I addressed about my lurking was to say that I was indeed "lurking lurking". Do you seriously think that with a statement like that that it was my intent to fly under the radar?

b) Or it is also possible that I made this play consciously as town and never planned to lurk all day.

Here I think your accusation, which is speculative in nature and is treading into conspiracy territory, is very feeble because you describe advantages to a play like mine for scum that doesn't exist in reality, and ignore the townie reason which far supersede possible scum motive for my play. I do think discussion generated here is good for a morose town. It is no custard discussion, and my play demands strong positions. And when/if I am cardflipped, it will be relevant to look at.

Simply put I don't believe it was a pro-town course of action to deliberately lurk throughout the earlier part of the game. If you're town all it serves to do is muddy the read on you and confuse the rest of the town(at least for me). I've realized that my main point against you is largely grounded in WIFOM and isn't the greatest way to pinpoint suspicion. Mafia in general is widely speculative and I just felt your strategy could've been pursued as scum just as easily. I have no way of knowing if you planned to lurk all day or if you jumped in the game soley because of the amounting pressure. Save for your lack of a strong stance upon your true entrance into the game, nothing else has stuck out to me since you became active. I've decided to put the lurking part in the back of my mind and not work off a case surrounding it. Instead I'll examine you more after the lurking fact.

Unvote

Lynx The Antithesis: Crappy argument against me. Need to clarify position on Budja. Upgrade to high danger. High frequency of QFT'ing. Upgraded to high danger.

I've already conceded that my argument isn't worth pursuing earlier in this post. Your defense is equally as WIFOMY. So I'm just gonna leave the lurking business behind for now. Umm I'm pretty sure I've only used QFT on like one post. So using "high frequency" is a pretty large reach there.

As for Budja I stated my feelings very clearly here:

Budja has done the same thing. He just recently removed his "random vote." And speaking of random vote, I do find it very peculiar that he deemed his vote "random." I really lost suspicion for his initial vote earlier in this game. However, his defense of said vote has really made up for that. First he said it was to escape the RVS. Then, he classifies it as bad play since he declared that the vote was pretty much useless when he applied it. A little after that he said he was trying to spark discussion and scum tells. And now, he just deems it another random vote. Don't think that we've forgotten that vote Budja because we haven't. I just don't know whether to place it as poor play or a genuine backpeddaling. You have moved back up on my scumlist nonetheless

Not sure if I want to lay my vote down just yet especially with him at L-2. His latest post is fine and all giving his suspects, but he still has done little in the the way to address the points presented against him.

RedCoyote: I do not know what to make of the extensive defence of me exactly, but I'm not complaining. I don't think he has been particularly scummy. Low danger.

Or maybe he's scum buddying up to a townie... might want to keep that in mind if you're town.

Also this quote battle between Don and Spring has grown extremely convoluted to me. If either of you want to clarify it, It'd be greatly appreciated.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Sorry for the recent lack of activity. I'm back at school now so I should have more time to post.

RC though you may say that you've only stated your opinion. My "opinion" is that you definitely extended a defense for Spring over the last couple pages.

While I think it is anti-town not to engage, I think it's significantly worse to be in a position of you, Azhrei, or Budja and say spring should be our Public Enemy #1 when all of y'alls contributions have been rather on the light side. Budja in particular has struck the complete wrong chord with me.

Understandable considering that they really hadn't contributed much up to this point.

And I'll even go further than that and say that don, Goat, and Lynx have all slightly pinged back scummy to me for pushing this issue needlessly. I think spring is an easy out, and I would not be surprised if more than one scum is voting her right now...

Now this is where the defense is really coming through. You're basically calling out anyone going after Spring at this point. Like don said you basically "lumped" all of us together even though we were suspicious of Spring for different reasons. Don was going after spring for her analysis post due to a belief of intentional misrepresentations and ambiguities. I was on Spring for her intended Lurking and lack of vote in her huge post calling everyone else out for their milky play. Goat's problem was with Spring was similar to my own, but he wasn't even voting her. Why shouldn't we press the biggest lead and most questionable of the play? When you attack anyone after Spring I think it most definitely can be deemed a defense.

You even question Spolium later for his skepticism of Spring. I think that covered all the Spring pushers to address.

Moreover, I've said that lynching spring is acceptable today. Granted, I think that would be a bad move on the town's part, because I certainly don't think she's the most scummy player here, but spring has no one but herself to blame for ignoring the game as she hasn't given anyone an acceptable excuse of her behavior other than "deal with it".

You're saying it's acceptable, yet you were suspicious that one of the scum may be on her wagon? You seemed so certain that her move wouldn't be beneficial for scum. Then why would you be fine with her lynch. I think you just said this in an effort to shed the defending attacks thrown at you. Before you said you'd only move your vote to her in case of a deadline.

I do find merit in Spolium's post as well I do feel he changed his tone with wanting to see where the pressure went to very against it.

@Lynx, sorry for not clarifying this earlier. I didn't notice your question.
Calling my earlier vote random was silly. The vote was fairly useless virtually as soon as I had placed it, by my own fault.
I was mixing random with casual/generally unimportant as random votes generally are.


In short, I muddled my words up.

It seems like you've slipped alot this game. Poor play or are you just riding these frequent "slip ups"? Post 304 seems a little opportunistic to me as well. Yes, you've expressed some suspicion to Coyote, but I feel you hopped on for the very small, speculative suggestion of possible scum buddying to Spring. I proposed this earlier. Did it not catch your eye then? Seems to me like you were looking for any reason to jump off the completely stalled Don wagon onto the RC wagon.

Vote:Budja

I find it a little curious that all my new fellow Budja Bandwagonee's haven't really said much about Budja since their initial vote laying post. What does everybody think of his recent posts? Does it decrease or increase your suspicion of him? Or was it purely a deadline vote for all of you?

I'd like certainly like to hear the replacements stance on the game when they finally get caught up.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I fully believe my defence was legitimate.

The worst thing I did was fail to show suspicions IMO and I have being attempting to become more active lately to combat this failure.

I have a bad habit of misplacing words, of using the wrong word when I mean another. I have done this a couple of times to my disadvantage but I can hardly defend myself beyond correcting my mistake. Not much else I can do.

I never really strongly believed in the don case. I simply believed in it more than any other case at that time. I was been hassled to place my vote so I placed it in the best position at the time.
RC's became more scummy, I changed my vote.

The quote from Goat was not meant to confuse or prove anything in particular. It was a comment that loosely reminded me of this case. Perhaps I shouldn't have posted it but it did influence me a bit and I thought it best to show one of the reason I was changing my vote.

Please note that fhq's post is what convinced me the most. The quote was just a minor thing in comparison.

Um well, at this stage do you want a claim?

You may have put up somewhat of a defense. I just believe that most of it rely's on everybody believing that you've made poor decisions as a player rather than actually explaining your actions. If you didn't believe strongly in the don case, you shouldn't have layed your vote down. You should never just vote simply to appease the town. You just look like you're trying to escape the pressure on you. The possibility that FHQ presented seemed like way too minor a reason to switch your vote.

Anyway I'd like a claim

DO, did anything else stand out in this game besides Budja? What about spring? She's been a pretty big focus so far.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Jesus alot has happened. I actually believed the claim until Spring's counterclaim because with Budja's seemingly poor play I honestly didn't think he'd be ballsy enough to fake claim. I figured if he was scum he'd take the the easy way out and claim vanilla.

Only one partner perhaps? Possible third party scum then.

Spring any last suspicions you think we should look into? You're certainly going to be dead tommorow.

I'm perfectly fine with somebody hammering soon. Everybody can get their rereads done at night anyway to see any possible connections to present tomorrow.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Fos: lynx

see above.

I said I'm completely fine with a hammer

soon

(key word). I did say I wanted to hear from Spring before we end the day because unless we have a very lucky roleblocker she's gonna be dead tommorow. Keep in mind we have a deadline in a little over two days. Prolonging the discussion a little longer than we actually need wouldn't be that much more beneficial to the town.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I'm very prepared to hammer, I just wasn't voting budja before because we still had a week or so of deadline to go after someone who wasn't already obvscum.

If he was so obvscum you should have had your vote on him earlier. This post comes off pretty scummy to me.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Jesus alot has happened. I actually believed the claim until Spring's counterclaim because with Budja's seemingly poor play I honestly didn't think he'd be ballsy enough to fake claim. I figured if he was scum he'd take the the easy way out and claim vanilla.

This is total BS, what's exactly is ballsy in fakeclaiming doc? When you are scum and about to be hanged, it's pretty much no brainer.

Based upon Budja's which I believed was pretty timid, I honestly didn't think he'd fake claim. I figured he'd just claim vanilla. What is even scummy about this? Because I said it's ballsy? It was based upon a read of Budja's prior play today.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Ok so Day 2 no townies dead, still have claimed doctor, and a scum lynch on day 1. I like where the town stands. First the lack of any kill last night indicates the lack of a third party scum such as a SK. The reason for the no kill must either be due to a lazy, delayed, or inactive scum or a successful doc protection last night. Now I'm not sure why scum would target anyone besides the doctor(Perhaps to create a situation where the town begins to suspect the doctor considering that she's still alive. But it would just be a stupid move by scum to leave the doctor alive I think.

As for Spring's claim, I certainly believe it. I highly extremely doubt that scum A would claim doctor, then scum B would counterclaim doctor. This would create a horrible situation for the scum if the real doctor claimed and entered the mix. I doubt that scum would out two of themselves just by mere chance of the town having a doctor.

I'm leaning towards Spring landing the succesful protection last night even if it means that the scum passed up on the doctor. There's still a chance that the scum just didn't send in a nightkill, but with the extended night phase due to Tony's absence, i think it's unlikely that the scum couldn't get the choice in time.

I still have to do a reread of Day 1. One thing that stood out to me was Don at the end of the day yesterday. He criticized Goat and me about wanting to the end the day. He was a very large advocate of continuing discussion because it is always helpful, but then he adds nothing the rest of the day. I know he posted in several other games as well which is why it sticks out to me. I'm not a huge fan of these meta type of arguments. I just felt Don tried to look Pro-town by being the "champion" of continuing discussion perhaps to make up for not being on the Budja scum wagon.

I'm gonna start my reread a little later, then I'll see who sticks out.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I don't buy that scum would take such a gamble. Especially when it risks two scum. I think it would be a terrible chance and backfire to the extreme if there was a doc. Keeping in mind Spring's earlier gambit, I don't think a Spring/Budja would take another huge chance with this as well. The fact that Spring countered so quickly is also telling to me. I'd think scum would wait a little while to see if the real doc would counterclaim before throwing their own fake counterclaim in there.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

haha

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I'm gonna give my brief stance on everyone:

Spolium- I think there's a decent chance he bussed Budja. He layed his vote primarily for the deadline and when it was extended he didn't really press Budja any further(though not many on the Budja wagon did after the extension, but I feel his vote was the only one laid largely due to the impending deadline. Once it was on he simply left it on and didn't really address it any further.) Another thing that sticks out to me was the back and forth between Goat earlier in the game. Spolium sticking up for Budja somewhat eased the pressure off him.

DO- Out of all the people on the wagon of Budja, i feel like DO is the most likely to have bussed Budja. He layed down the L-1 vote with little to coment on besides the fact that Budja was pretty obviously scummy. I think, At this point, it was pretty apparent that Budja was gonna be the lynch candidate of the day after my vote. So DO had no trouble dropping the deadweight that Budja had become. His proposal today to lynch the uncountered doctor is pretty scummy. I think it could have just been a poor townie proposal as well though.

Don- Don was the first to attack Budja way back to get us out of the random phase. He dropped his vote fairly easily and never really focused on Budja the rest of the day. His meta excuse for not seeing Budja as scum could be valid, I just don't have anyway of knowing that. Another thing that I found suspect was the whole discussion thing like I pointed out earlier. He made a big deal out of continuing useful discussion, then never added anything after that. I felt like this was an attempt to give off a pro-town vibe to make up for his absence on the Budja wagon.

RC- My major problem with him is the defense of Spring. He continues to claim that was merely an opinion, I just don't think my mind will be changed about the matter. Definite possibility of scum buddying up to a townie. However, I didn't read any strong connection between him and Budja. All of his interactions with Budja came off genuinely town vs. scum to me.

FHQ- Didn't like his earlier play. Especially the scapegoat call on Budja scum and change of direction to a lurker hunt. I can see a possible link between FHQ and Budja. He did recover thoughout Day 1 for me slightly.

Jebus- Wasn't a fan of his last few posts at the end of Day 1. The obvscum remarks came off fairly scummy to me. I agree that Goat caught him changing the time frame of his remarks. My gut sees him as town though.

Goat- The one player I'm confident enough to say is town. He was the one who really pressed Budja, his attacks have been consistent, he's cast that at many different players, and he's nailed many good points to me.

Spring- I believe the doc claim and she's very low on my suspicion list now. I do feel like your posts have lacked as much as your previous content and lacked the same level of scum hunting you expressed earlier in the game ever since your claim(More Busy maybe?). Spring, you got lucky that you're still around today. You're basically a confirmed innocent and i feel you're a good player. I think you can seriously help the town pinpoint these last scum.

Millar- After rereading and knowing Budja is one of the scum, Ice looked much better in my eyes. I just don't think he was active long enough to get a good enough read on him. Need to hear more.

Plonky- No read at all. No content. Plonky if you don't think you can handle the game you should seriously consider just replacing out already.

Now my top three at the moment are Don, DO, and Spolium for the strongest connections I see to Budja. With FHQ an honorable mention.

Vote:Don

I'm gonna have my vote on him for now at least. I'd like to see where this wagon goes.

I'm tired and for now I'm off to bed. I may do a closer read in the near future but tonight I'm done. Goodnight mafiascum.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Don- His meta excuse for not seeing Budja as scum could be valid, I just don't have anyway of knowing that.

Actually, the meta defence was mine. You can read the thread I was talking about HERE - pages 12-14 in particular cover a push on a Budja lynch.

I wasn't very clear. The post I was referring to was here:

i didn't see the tells outside of the poetry phase. alot of what people were calling "slips" seemed like honest mistakes. i am in another game with budja and he is playing similar. the only thing that drew my attention was his voting pattern. in hindsight he seemed to be hopping the popular cases these last few pages. damn tunnel vision. i actually thought that one of you two might be doc. if budja hadn't claimed scum here i would have asked for more discussion on the counterclaim. c'est la vie! good start.

Your meta defense is a separate incident (From a brief skim of that game it looked to me like Budja was much more vocal. I may read the game closer a little later).Here Don's reason for not voting Budja based upon a meta read.

I'm debating the idea that Budja make a very weak distance effort with his vote on Don. There wasn't much heat on Don at the time. Budja's scum play strikes me as a follower, not a leader. I don't think Budja would have lead a case on somebody which is why I think he was comfortable with laying his vote on his partner. I don't recall Don ever really commenting on the vote. When I questioned Budja about his switch to RC, he replied that he never really found Don scummy and that he only layed down the vote because the pressure on his lack of any real stance. I think Budja just used the vote to distance from Don plain and simple.

lynx: i don't see where RC's interactions with budja were very genuine. can you provide some examples?

Frankly, It's more of a gut call based upon my reread which I tend to use more as the we proceed further into the game.

Now I reread purely RC and I've realized that his vote has been on since the RVS. He continually questioned Budja's though throughout the earlier party of the game. Now It's a pretty strong bus to keep your vote on your partner all of Day 1. Towards the end of the day RC got somewhat wrapped up in the Spring defense/opinion and most of his posts addressed that alone towards the end, but he was being attacked by many players. So he had plenty to respond to keep him busy. I do find it a little strange that he went a little quiet about Budja after page 10 or so. However I find his continued expression of suspicion enough to not see a strong connection between the two. I find it a little difficult to buy that he'd ride his partner that much.

All in all I don't see a Budja/RC scumpair in their interactions. I do find him scummy for his refusal to admit to the defense of Spring(strong scum town buddying possibility). Especially when he so easily admitted his flip flop about FHQ earlier today. Don, if this isn't sufficient for you, then I could go pull some quotes of RC's continued suspicion of Budja(there were a good amount). Though it wouldn't be a huge help because it's just a matter of whether you believe them to be sincere and you could see it very different from myself. This is just how I read it.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

DO- Out of all the people on the wagon of Budja, i feel like DO is the most likely to have bussed Budja. He layed down the L-1 vote with little to coment on besides the fact that Budja was pretty obviously scummy. I think, At this point, it was pretty apparent that Budja was gonna be the lynch candidate of the day after my vote. So DO had no trouble dropping the deadweight that Budja had become. His proposal today to lynch the uncountered doctor is pretty scummy. I think it could have just been a poor townie proposal as well though.

Any reasons I posted for voting Budja would have been redundant. Of course there's a good amount of WIFOM in what I'm going to say but, if I was scum would I drop a heavy vote like that without giving at least a paragraph or two of bullshit to prop it up? I could have at least taken the time to quote a few of the others on the bandwagon and then reiterated them. But I did not. The case against Budja was so self-apparent, and I really shouldn't even have to defend it since, hey guess what he was scum. I think if anything, what you claimed was scummy in my vote was the least scummy aspect of it.

I completely agree you shouldn't just rehash arguments and pull anything out of your ass just to seem like adding somewthing to the case. The simple fact that he was scum just doesn't automatically make you town though. I see the highest chance of bussing coming from you. You could've at least stated which aspects of the cases on Budja you agreed with. If my claim wasn't the most scummy component of your vote, then what was? It's pretty stupid to ask you about this. It's just the way you used the word "least" makes me believe that you felt there was worst elements of your vote.

Considering that most of the town has shown disapproval for your plan to lynch the

claimed

doctor, are you still supportive of it? Is there any alternate suspects you have?

But who in fact is guility of being wrong? hmmmm

What?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Defending Budja in any way was a pretty stupid move on my part - I'll admit that - but it's somewhat disingenuous of you to describe my vote as "the only one laid largely due to the impending deadline" without considering that you asked me who my prime candidate was "in the face of a deadline". I answered your question, but I didn't place the vote itself for deadline related reasons at all - I placed it because I had waited long enough for Budja to pick up his game and thought his flip would yield more information than most others.

I think the fact that I asked you who you'd vote for clouded my thoughts about that matter and I just associated your vote with the deadline. I agree that it's wrong on my part to characterizer your vote in such a manner. I do still maintain that once you voted Budja you appeared to lose focus of him. It may have been your problems with RC that shifted your attention though.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

My responses are in bold

I wasn't very clear. The post I was referring to was here:

i didn't see the tells outside of the poetry phase. alot of what people were calling "slips" seemed like honest mistakes.

i am in another game with budja and he is playing similar. the only thing that drew my attention was his voting pattern.

in hindsight he seemed to be hopping the popular cases these last few pages. damn tunnel vision. i actually thought that one of you two might be doc. if budja hadn't claimed scum here i would have asked for more discussion on the counterclaim.

c'est la vie! good start.

Your meta defense is a separate incident (From a brief skim of that game it looked to me like Budja was much more vocal. I may read the game closer a little later).

Here Don's reason for not voting Budja based upon a meta read

.

the majority of my post offered much more reasoning for my not voting budja than simply "meta". you imply that i did not vote budja based on meta. this is incorrect. not sure which game you are reading, but his early play seemed similar. i.e. budja seemed to not be much of a leader in either game. this, however, was only one part of my decision.

The only other reason I see in this that you saw his mistakes were honest slip ups. So I considered that your meta was a large reason for your lack of vote. The rest of the post seems all like reasons why you should've have seen Budja as scum such as the voting pattern and jumping on popular cases.

I don't recall Don ever really commenting on the vote

don didn't.

I think the fact that you didn't even acknowledge it is telling?

When I questioned Budja about his switch to RC, he replied that he never really found Don scummy and that he only layed down the vote because the pressure on his lack of any real stance.

I think Budja just used the vote to distance from Don plain and simple

.

plausible, but unlikely. i wasn't on his wagon and i was in no danger of lynch at the time. how would the vote have "distanced" us? personally i interpreted the vote as a frustrated townie's attempt to scumhunt. though i felt spring's interpretations of my posts were misrep, i by no means claim to have been beyond suspicion and seeing as how budja's vote carried no wieght i felt no need to respond as i was concerned in finding actual scum. day 1 is never easy. i still don't read budja as scum.

I think that he went after you was a distance attempt. Like I said it was a weak effort by Budja. But now knowing that he's scum, not town, the "frustrated townie" doesn't hold up. Any vote by scum on scum is a distance attempt. By expressing suspicion on you it makes you look less likely to partners. There were no votes on you and I don't believe that he would lead the charge against a townie. He saw an easy attack in his partner, and seeing you not respond to the vote only makes more inclined to see you as a pair. Just because you think the vote carries no weight I still don't think you should simply ignore it. I agree that day 1 isn't easy. Since we nailed scum, I think using him is the most informative way to start day 2

.

lynx: i don't see where RC's interactions with budja were very genuine. can you provide some examples?

Frankly, It's more of a gut call based upon my reread which I tend to use more as the we proceed further into the game.

i don't understand this. do you mean that you prefer gut to facts as the game progresses?

Not at all. But there are little 100% facts to go on besides investigations and other informative based power roles. Mafia is speculative in nature and I think many cases are made on feelings in general.

Now I reread purely RC and I've realized that his vote has been on since the RVS. He continually questioned Budja's though throughout the earlier party of the game. Now It's a pretty strong bus to keep your vote on your partner all of Day 1. Towards the end of the day RC got somewhat wrapped up in the Spring defense/opinion and most of his posts addressed that alone towards the end, but he was being attacked by many players. So he had plenty to respond to keep him busy. I do find it a little strange that he went a little quiet about Budja after page 10 or so. However I find his continued expression of suspicion enough to not see a strong connection between the two.

I find it a little difficult to buy that he'd ride his partner that much

.

i disagree. scum are desperate, as soon as the heat turned up on RCscum i don't see why he wouldn't be willing to bus his partner straight to the gallows. in fact, this seems to be a perfect example of a text book bus.

Yeah, but RC was on Budja all day. He didn't just turn up the pressure on Budja once it started heading his way. It's not impossible by any means I just believe otherwise. If you see a strong connection, then how come your votes on DO, and not RC. You said you placed it on DO for no other place to put it. It seems like you see something with Red.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

you are wrong on my reasoning for my vote on DO, it is more than just "a place to put it". you are mischaracterizing my statements by excluding parts that are relevant. my suspicions on RC are documented in thread.

you have confirmed now that your vote on me is "gut" and that it is "speculative in nature" and not based on facts.

I do believe you said that you did say when you voted DO you said "for lack of better place to put my vote" which basically doesn't make it much better than just "a place to put it". If you're suspicions on RC are so well documented, then why isn't it on RC. Your vote on DO seems half hearted.

I have in no way confirmed that. That was in regards to my read of RC. I see a definite possibility of distancing between the two of you with Budja's vote on Day 1.

i don't get you here. because i now know that he's scum, my thoughts from yesterday are now supposed to change? it seemed like a "frustrated townie attempting to scumhunt" type vote. if it was a weak effort by Budja, did you notice any strong efforts?

I got you here and concede that your thoughts from yesterday wouldn't change. It still doesn't change the suspicion to me of you ignoring the vote which sticks out to me.

you should go to "THE DEREK ZOOLANDER SCHOOL FOR KIDS WHO DON'T READ GOOD". you missed this one:

i actually thought that one of you two might be doc.

sorry, but i'm not down with lynching players i think might be doc.

I'm not getting this reason still. You thought that one of the two of them was the doctor before or after their claims? My thing against you was why you weren't on the wagon in the first place not after their claims.(well inserted Zoolander reference boosts my respect for you at least)

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I'm not getting this reason still. You thought that one of the two of them was the doctor before or after their claims? My thing against you was why you weren't on the wagon in the first place not after their claims.(well inserted Zoolander reference boosts my respect for you at least)

the thought occurred to me before the claim. first with spring, then with budja. why would i vote a player who i think may have a town pr?

But I have no way of knowing that you thought that before their claims considering you stated this read after both of their claims. I don't think it's fair of you to pose that question when I have absolutely no basis to believe you didn't vote them because you thought they were power roles. What in Spring's play made you think she was the doc before the claim? The same goes for Budja.

I have a macroeconomics midterm tomorrow so my posting's probably gonna be limited today.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

you are the one asking about this line of reasoning, not me. would you rather i lie? if its a no win situation you have placed me in, it is much more polite to just let me know, than to ask me a series of questions whose answers you have already made up your mind not to believe.

It was for my own clarification. You brought up the fact that I missed this reason. I wasn't sure if you meant that you weren't down with lynching power roles after their claim or before. The reason I ask you is that the way you explain it may change what I believe. Just look at when I messed up your view that you thought Budja was a frustrated townie on Day 1. If I hadn't asked you i would still be under this false impression. You cleared it up. Hence why I ask the questions.

Red, sorry for not responding before I didn't have enough time. I still think it was defense because you criticized many of the arguments against Spring and attacked many of the players on Spring. By doing this you effectively relieved pressure off of Spring. She could have addressed those arguments herself, and by you speaking on her behalf and picking apart arguments, Spring evaded the whole point of the pressure relatively unscathed. The same goes for when Spolium did this with Budja against Goat right in the beginning of the game. That was also a defense. Which Spolium even admitted to doing.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Hey sorry for lack of posts recently been busy with midterms. In fact I got one in just a few hours so I'm gonna have to study.

Unvote

. I'll examine the Don claim more later, but for now the votes coming off. Post coming later tonight.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

first results were that RC was home alone all night. i asked about what i would see if RC had an investigative immune role, and was told that my results have nothing to do with alignment, and that my ability only reveals if someone targets my target(as you said). what i am stuck wondering is this:

if RC is mafia, is there any reason he would be home alone? there not being an nk last night adds to my confusion. wouldn't scum read as "out" anyway? i thought both scum and mason roles had to leave there houses to speak at night, which leads me to townRC.

To my knowledge a watcher is allowed to see who if anybody targeted. But the person the watcher chooses doesn't show whether he targeted someone else . The watcher DOES NOT know if his target went to another's house. I don't think the scum would meet at a particular house because then the house chosen would be up in the air. This part is confusing.

I believe your claim, Don. Your post sounds pretty sincere about your confusion regarding the results. Does anybody know if scum get a watcher sometimes? I don't think they'd have another power role considering that they had a role blocker.

I need to rethink my suspects as my biggest one has gone cold right now.

I'd like to hear the replacements input as those players have been no reads throughout the game so far.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Oh and Hohum what the hell happened between you and Empking? You're going at him pretty hard in Rebels. Just curious.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Oh and Hohum what the hell happened between you and Empking? You're going at him pretty hard in Rebels. Just curious.

It isn't kosher to talk about ongoing games. Sorry.

Yeah consider it retracted

Consider it noted. Watch it -.-

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I really want to do a reread soon, but I just don't have the time(damn college). I have yet another test tomorrow and I'm going to have like no access this weekend. V/LA until sunday.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Ok, I'm back and I see that a dealine's been imposed in a week. We need to start coming to a consensus on a good lynch NOW rather than organize this thing last minute. Everybody who already hasn't should lay their suspicions out clearly so we have something to discuss.

Now I lost my top suspect in Don for the moment with the sincerity of his confusion. Though I do agree that watcher/tracker is a fairly easy scum fake claim(I've seen it used a decent amount of times). But for now I'm satisfied leaving Don around.

Now my top lynch candidate right now is FHQ mostly in regards to his early play Day 1.

...speaking of which, if he IS the scapegoat, I find it interesting that Goatrevolt is pushing him the hardest. It by no means is a scumtell, but if Budja just made a mistake (and taking Spolium's word for it, not for the first time), your case on him can be used as a misdirection by scum.

Point 1: Here is an obvious connection to Budja. Definitely appears to be deflating the pressure pointed against Budja. Implies that Goat is scummy for pressuring Budja over a possible scumtell. Doesn't fully commit to this as a scumtell against Goat I feel as to avoid drawing retaliation from Goat(fails though). Why would it be wrong of a townie to push a tell we have no way of knowing was a genuine mistake or not?

I think the ones we should be looking at, are the lurkers. If we are just townies fighting among ourselves, the ones winning is scum lurking and waiting for us to string up one of our own.

Point 2: Seeing another connection to Budja. It's apparent that FHQ is attempting to change the focus from Budja to the lurkers. I feel like the lurker hunts are always the easiest way to avoid actual scum hunting. The only ones I feel town should ever go after is the active lurkers. Ones who constantly only provide fluff posts.

Point 3: Lack of any vote until page 10 or any real stances throughout the earlier stage of the game. He Pressures Spring which I have no problem about. The thing is he just never committed to anything really or followed up on the comments that he pointed out.

Lynx wrote:
Budja and FHQ who are your top candidates for a lynch. Who are you most willing to lynch and what is holding you back from laying your vote on that person?

Speaking for myself, at the time of my previous post, the vote count wasn't up yet, and I felt cautious to vote until I know what the standings are.

Thing is, my suspicions earlier in this game was mostly 'fishing' to see responses, rather than having something solid. That being said, I rather like my feeling on spring at the moment, so I feel confident to vote: springlullaby.

Point 4: I call FHQ out on the lack of vote, he finally votes Spring. Appeasement anyone? I don't buy the whole waiting for vote count excuse really or his justification of no vote for earlier in the game.

Point 5: Drops off the dead Spring wagon with a suspicion leaning towards Red, but never votes him...Why?

Ugh, this game is stagnating.

atm I'm torn between DO for his absurd 'policy vote' suggestion and RC.

RC, I just don't buy your 'opinion vs defense' argument (or is that just my opinion?). Personally I think you would have looked much better if you just conceded on being on the defense for spring. This justification of your defense that isn't one is just doesn't work for me.

Point 6: Complains that the game is stagnating. Why don't you do something about this problem? You're not helping by adding little. You're waiting for other people to stir things up. Again I see no vote for Red though you still express suspicion of him.

Overall I see little scum hunting and early connections to Budja.

Vote:FHQ

DO's basically gone inactive. I'd still put him as my secondary lynch choice right now.

I see no problem with Spring withholding her protection. I do think she should unveil it if that person is about to be lynched so we can take it into consideration. I also think she shold reveal it closer to deadline because she might not be around tommorw to tell us. She's continually been expressed as town so I think she's definitely going to be in the scum's eye tonight. Better to hear it later today than never. I'm not a fan of Spring's style in this game and curt responses such as "I'll play the way I want." But there's no sense in badgering her to play different if she's chosen this way anymore. She's clearly set on it for the moment.

Now let's hear who others think would be a good lynch candidate. Deadline's here we need to act.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

don 525 wrote:
you say this as if SL needs your advice. seems like you are seizing a chance to come off as pro town here.

I think the little spat between them is null, but post 524 sounded opportunistic to me.

Nothing major for me, certainly not enough for a vote just yet, but it seems awkward nonetheless.

QFT. I felt a similar vibe as well with this post by Don. It just doesn't seem characteristic of Don's earlier votes and comes off a little opportunistic.

Don

, you said you were rereading. Did you find anything useful? Any further reasoning behind your vote on sekinj?

Firstly, I'm not going to apologize for my 'protection' of Budja. I believed he was town being scapegoated and believed he was town up until he's slip. If being wrong makes me scummy, then vote away

.

Thats not the only reason you're found scummy to me at the moment.

FHQ

, I'd like to know for sure what your stance is on Red. Is he scummy or not to you? Is he in your top suspects still after Don's watcher claim?

RC

, is your suspicion of Goat mostly linked to vibes? His inactivity in general make his lurking a null tell to me. Do you see him as having one of the strongest ties to Budja?

Spolium

, who is sticking out to you now since your unvote of RedCoyote?

Goat

, How do you find Jebus's play since you layed your case out against him? How has his responses affected your read on him?

Spring

, Where do your suspicions lie at the moment? How did you gauge the reactions to your concealed doc protection?

Hohum

, any thoughts whatsoever?

Jebus

, Are you still questioning Spring's claim?

Sekinj

, who do you see as a more profitable deadline lynch: FHQ or Jebus?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Ok I'm confused now with two doc claims in the air. Especially with the fact that Jebus protected Spring and there was NO nightkill today. And I'd figure that scum would target Spring if she was town. I saw absolutely no reason for a (scum) Spring to counter another (scum) Budja and still don't see this as a viable strategy. The third claim by Jebus only muddies things up further for I see no reason for Jebus to counter either.

If either of you is town and fake claiming admit to it now because I see no reason to believe that both of you can possibly be town.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

You say that you are doc and thought me town because you protected me. What in meantime made you change your mind?

A whim, actually. This, and the fact that I'd screwed up as a townie pretty badly, I thought :/

Also, your tone is telling me that you're publicly showing you're not the doctor. Is this accurate?

No it is not, I am doc. I'm simply gauging you and the possibility of there being 2 doc and 1 watcher.

I don't see a strong possibility of two doctors. Has anybody even seen a game with two doctors?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I'm still skeptical of the town docs idea. But I'm torn because I don't see any reason for either of them to fake claim as scum. Goat's satire of a possible Spring scum counter keeps popping in my head about the absurdity of that situation. And Jebus's push against Spring's claim matches up with his own doctor claim. If we have two docs , then the town is pretty powerful. Along with the watcher I the town's got some pretty big firepower. Keeping the possibility of two docs in mind, couldn't they cross protect each other? Thus making them both impervious to nightkill. Plus, if we had a watcher he could keep tabs over the docs and see if anyone targets them. Though, of course, this is all under the conditions that all these claims are legitimate.

The fact that Jebus protected Spring also adds up well. It makes sense because I definitely think scum would've targeted Spring.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

If one of the two docs is scum I'd bank on Spring. But for today I think we should let Spring, Don, and Jebus live for continued observation purposes. If the scum leave them alive just because they are linked to a decent amount of suspicion, it will work poorly for them in the long run anyway (they're already at a disadvantage without their rolebocker). I think at least 2 out of the three of the power role claims are valid and the continued speculation about last night's actions is only getting more confusing . So I think we can find another scum outside of the three of them. I'm still much in favor of a FHQ lynch today.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

However, I think they could also easily both be docs, one town doc, one scum doc, and the mod used the same/very similar rhyme for their PMs

I don't see this as a likely scenario. You're suggesting that the scum doc countered the scum role blocker? Or that the scum doc countered the real doc on day 2? The first situation seems unlikely because then both scum power roles would be outed and under severe scrutiny. The second is also unlikely because I highly doubt that the scum would trade their mafia doc for the real doc after losing a member day 1. Both just seem so improbable to me. I just don't see any strong possiblity of a scum doc being one of our claimed docs.

Goat 639 wrote:
sekinj, Rhinox, and fhq would be my top 3 choices for a lynch at this point. I'll review each and decide this weekend sometime.

I concur with these choices.

I can accept that these are the main three lynch candidates. But I'm curious to see the case on Sekinj. I haven't seen anything terribly scummy coming from her. I'm neutral on her right now. And for Rhinox I feel like the only suspicion against him lies on DO's plan to lynch Spring which I feel could have just been a very poor course of action from a townie.

I'd even go so far as to argue that more important than the lynch (especially if we decide to leave the claimed roles alive) is how the town decides on where the powers should be used.

Half of me thinks it's wise to concoct some sort of grand scheme for the night actions, half of me thinks it would best be left to the player's discretion. I feel like, no matter how we configure it, the scum will be in on our plans and will know how to take advantage of the situation.

So, and I know spring won't have and problem with this (lol), it might be best that spring, Jebus, and don stay quiet and all ultimately make their own decisions about who to use their powers on. This way the scum can't interfere and wind up sacrificing one of their own to knock out two power roles (which would defeat the purpose of leaving them all alive today anyhow).

I definitely think it'd be best for them to leave their decisions in the dark as well. This way the scum will have to deliberate whether they should go for the power roles or leave them be to avoid having their kill blocked or their actions watched. This will keep the scum guessing rather than the town outline their plans for the night. Though it is harder then for us to gain info, but it's worth it I feel.

By the way, Spolium and anyone else, has your opinion of DO's play in this game changed any as a result of reading his comments in the 2 games I posted?

I read the game with the vig Darkdude, mason Xdaamno, etc. In a way it does lessen any second thoughts I have from that plan he proposed(I wasn't too suspicious of that in the first place). It seemed typical of his playstyle. Alot of his ideas were bizzare in that game as well and he turned out to be the cop. The thing I found suspicious was his L-1 vote more due to the little reason he provided and the fact that Budja was most likely becoming dead weight at that point. I see a good bus possibility there.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

[quote="sekinj]

So, to me, it really does seem like we actually have 2 docs. BUt what would the mafia have to have to counter such a powerful town? at least a godfather I'm thinking...[/quote]

Well we already know they had one power role in a role blocker. Perhaps they have a watcher as well? Don scum wouldn't have to fake sincerity in his confusion over his results then. Don's activity and playstyle has changed since he claimed I feel... might be something to keep tabs on.

I doubt the chance of two scum parties. I don't think two docs would have both protected successfully.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

EBWOP

So, to me, it really does seem like we actually have 2 docs. BUt what would the mafia have to have to counter such a powerful town? at least a godfather I'm thinking...

Well we already know they had one power role in a role blocker. Perhaps they have a watcher as well? Don scum wouldn't have to fake sincerity in his confusion over his results then. Don's activity and playstyle has changed since he claimed I feel... might be something to keep tabs on.

I doubt the chance of two scum parties. I don't think two docs would have both protected successfully.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

EBWOP

So, to me, it really does seem like we actually have 2 docs. BUt what would the mafia have to have to counter such a powerful town? at least a godfather I'm thinking...

Well we already know they had one power role in a role blocker. Perhaps they have a watcher as well? Don scum wouldn't have to fake sincerity in his confusion over his results then. Don's activity and playstyle has changed since he claimed I feel... might be something to keep tabs on.

not sure what you mean by "not having to fake sincerity"? if i had a scum parnter(s), don't you think they would enlighten me as to the particulars of my role?

Maybe they expected you to know. Maybe you never addressed it. Who knows. I'm simply entertaining the possibility.

this is a possiblity, but still the fact remains of the no kill last night, so whatever targeted spring failed I'm guessing because of Jebus's protect. So... maybe spring is insane, and IF they had targeted spoilum it would not have worked? but don't insame docs usually harm the person they are trying to protect?

I just looked up all the variations of the doc role. We got a naive, weak, paranoid or jailkeeper, insane, and CPR doc. Naive is told they are a doc, but can't actually protect. Weak docs die if they protect scum. Jailkeeper protects and roleblocks. Insane has a 50% chance of killing rather than protecting. Lastly, CPR kill the person if they are not targeted by Mafia. Now which one of these would balance two docs you think?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

A jailkeeper would probably know they are one, because it's separate role from doc

I think paranoid doc is interchangable with jailkeeper. Well at least according to the flash wiki. A paranoid doc both protects and roleblocks. Please correct if I am wrong.

RC wrote:
That's not good enough for me.

That's a fair opinion, but if you look back, Jebus basically gave the final word in his poem away without directly quoting it. Thats quite compelling to me. Also, your statement 'I don't think it would be too hard to just say, "Hey, I got a poem with such-and-such rhyme scheme, what about you?" "Yeah I had something similar." ' deliberately makes the statements made seem less significant. They were more specific than that.

By no means do I view it as hard evidence, but I'm not going to discount it either.

Why does it seem like you bring up a point, then post a line that somewhat softens your attack. Like with Goat earlier this game. Are you deliberately not trying to get on anybody's bad side? And why does it seem that you never follow up on your suspicions with a vote or some sort of pressure? Both your suspicion of Spring and RC have gone no where really. Do you find your playstyle consistently this hesitant or do you feel it's just this game? I'd like to hear your top three candidates especially to know where you stand.

This is my list for today:
1. FHQ
2.Rhinox
3.Spring or Don as a final option, but I'd still prefer to keep them around today.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Sekinj I'll say it again, but I didn't like his L-1 vote. No one else has said anything about it really. DO layed down the vote with no explanation behind it. His justification for this was that he didn't want to rehash arguments. He should have at least pointed out which facts that he was in agreement with and what he found suspicious. His only point was really was that the case on Budja was "self-evident" . The timing and way he went about it lead me to believe it to be a bus.

And I don't like his response to my suspicion here:

DO- Out of all the people on the wagon of Budja, i feel like DO is the most likely to have bussed Budja. He layed down the L-1 vote with little to coment on besides the fact that Budja was pretty obviously scummy. I think, At this point, it was pretty apparent that Budja was gonna be the lynch candidate of the day after my vote. So DO had no trouble dropping the deadweight that Budja had become. His proposal today to lynch the uncountered doctor is pretty scummy. I think it could have just been a poor townie proposal as well though.

Any reasons I posted for voting Budja would have been redundant. Of course there's a good amount of WIFOM in what I'm going to say but, if I was scum would I drop a heavy vote like that without giving at least a paragraph or two of bullshit to prop it up? I could have at least taken the time to quote a few of the others on the bandwagon and then reiterated them. But I did not. The case against Budja was so self-apparent, and I really shouldn't even have to defend it since, hey guess what he was scum. I think if anything, what you claimed was scummy in my vote was the least scummy aspect of it.

If I was scum wouldn't I quote others and reiterate them? I think thats one really bad defense for his vote. Even worse is the him saying he shouldn't have to defend it because Budja turned up scum. Yeah, like scum never vote for their partners

I'm not as suspicious of the doc lynching idea which everyone else has built their suspicion around. I think that could easily have been presented by a poor townie. It by no means helps my view of his alignment though.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Ok, here's the deal possible deadline tomorrow night. We need to get a lynch in before then. I'm not willing to take the risk and bank on Tony not finding a replacement to buy us extra time. Unless of course we can get an

extension

?

Nope

It's obvious the two main candidates right now are FHQ and Rhinox. Anyone not voting needs to make up their mind and decide between these two

NOW

. Let's not stall too long. I expect everyone to have a choice by tomorrow. These are the only two I see as viable choices for today.

FHQ and Rhinox should both present their lynch suggestions and explain why they're a better option than themselves.

I still want FHQ lynched. However, If the wagons are stalling I'll act accordingly.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Who do you propose to be lynched instead then Rhinox? We do have a deadline tomorrow. You're the top choice for many people so you might want to show us who'd be a better lynch than you or FHQ.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

No I think there's definitely enough to select someone for today. Besides we'll still gain info even if they flip town. No lynch is not an option to me. Do you honestly not see anything substantial against anyone?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I honestly don't see enough difference to choose. I also don't like how you have narrowed our options to just fhq and rhin. I think goatrevolt, spoilum and you have said just as many questionable things. PLUS - hohum is absent! what if he is the scum and is just lurking to victory. I just dont' like this situation and think a no lynch is our best option. I think without more information we will make a mistake.

I've narrowed it down because it's obvious that those two are the top suspects of today. If there's another case on anyone else I've yet to hear it. If Spolium, Goat and myself have said questionable things like you've said, then why haven't you pointed out these things? I made case against FHQ and I find merit in it. I want him lynched I've made it clear that I think it's enough against him. Through a lynch we'll gain more information. No lynch we're just going to be in the same situation with one less townie.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

No lynch we're just going to be in the same situation with one less townie.

You disagree that we are going to gain information tonight?

We'll gain info based upon the kill and power roles, but I don't think it's enough to pass on the lynch. The lynch will give us more info. And if the person comes out town, it'll be the equivalent of a day one night kill. I see enough for a lynch on FHQ as it is. If you don't just just keep your vote on No lynch.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Lynx - Quote:
I've narrowed it down because it's obvious that those two are the top suspects of today. If there's another case on anyone else I've yet to hear it. If Spolium, Goat and myself have said questionable things like you've said, then why haven't you pointed out these things? I made case against FHQ and I find merit in it. I want him lynched I've made it clear that I think it's enough against him. Through a lynch we'll gain more information. No lynch we're just going to be in the same situation with one less townie.


This post interests me. Its clear you suspect FHQ first, and I guess me second. Do you think there is no case on any other player as in no one else is likely scum, or are you just focusing in because a deadline is close and you're confident about FHQ? The part I bolded makes me think you don't suspect there is any case on any player other than me or FHQ right now (not weaker cases, but no cases whatsoever). I also wonder how closely you have looked at other players in the game besides FHQ or I - it sounds like you're looking for someone else to present a case rather than look for one yourself ("If there is a case I have yet to hear it", rather than "I don't see a case on anyone else right now"). Maybe I'm reading into this too much though and your just making sure we lynch before deadline.

My focus has narrowed down due to the impending deadline and the fact that most people have only expressed suspicion of you and and FHQ. Now in order to sercure a lynch before deadline I feel we're going to have settle on one of you two to gain enough votes. Out of the eleven people I agree we should leave Don, Spring, and Jebus around for at least tonight. I already believe Goat and RC to be town. My suspicion against Spolium has subsided more and more throughout the day to the point that I think he's town as well right now. Now that leaves you, FHQ, Sekinj, and hohum. Hohum's been inactive and Sekinj has appeared neutral to me. So that leaves you and FHQ to me.

I already believe FHQ to be scum. I've made a case illustrating why I think this. A few people have agreed with me on this about him. Now , the people who aren't suspicious of FHQ seem to be suspcious of you. I don't find anyone else particulary suspicious, and I haven't seen anyone else make a strong case against anybody besides you two(though I feel people's suspicion of you is wrong. They find the doc part suspicious while I find yesterday's L-1 vote suspicious.) But no one has pointed out anything really about any other player besides you two. This is the reason I've narrowed the choice down to the two of you. If we weren't at a deadline, there'd be no reason to do so. But these are the only lynches I see happening in time.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I'm gone for the rest of the night. I'll be back by about noon tomorrow. Hopefully the others will check in by then.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

We just need one more vote on FHQ to get the lynch in. I'd like to hear from FHQ before he's hammered though. Hopefully he can get online before the deadline closes in. I'd like to hear from Goat too, but he's been inactive on the entire site since Tuesday. Regardless I think someone should hammer in a couple of hours.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

1. I explained my case on lynx.

Then your case is complete crap if all you've got is my earlier suspicions of DO. He could have answered any other number of ways to defend his vote on Budja. He basically settled on "the case was self-evident" and "how is the vote suspicious when he came up scum." It's funny because your crap argument all stems from suspicion based upon my supposed "weak" attack on DO. Hypocritical much? Oh wait sorry you of course you classified my play today as "oily and obsequious". What a great point when you back it up with completely nothing I'm sorry I was trying to scumhunt and gets some leads earlier today especially after we hit scum while you just sat back and lurked.

2. Until recently I though the deadline was april the 11th

Thats odd considering that the mod posted the deadline timer at 45 hours 2 posts above your replacement request for hohum. Are you paying attention to this game at all? You've been riding your claim enough to lurk throughout a large part of day 2. Even worse is you're throwing this at the town last minute. Possibly in an attempt to confuse the town and deviate us from FHQ's lynch or a lynch in general perhaps.

FOS:Spring

[Lynx The Antithesis]

1. I explained my case on lynx.

Then your case is complete crap if all you've got is my earlier suspicions of DO. He could have answered any other number of ways to defend his vote on Budja. He basically settled on "the case was self-evident" and "how is the vote suspicious when he came up scum." It's funny because your crap argument all stems from suspicion based upon my supposed "weak" attack on DO. Hypocritical much? Oh wait sorry you of course you classified my play today as "oily and obsequious". What a great point when you back it up with completely nothing I'm sorry I was trying to scumhunt and gets some leads earlier today especially after we hit scum while you just sat back and lurked.

2. Until recently I though the deadline was april the 11th

Thats odd considering that the mod posted the deadline timer at 45 hours 2 posts above your replacement request for hohum. Are you paying attention to this game at all? You've been riding your claim enough to lurk throughout a large part of day 2. Even worse is you're throwing this at the town last minute. Possibly in an attempt to confuse the town and deviate us from FHQ's lynch or a lynch in general perhaps.

FOS:Spring

I don't have to back up my say with anything. I judge your play to be oily and obsequious, other people may agree or not.

I'm investigating the timer thing because I do not remember seeing it when I ask replacement for hohum.

So you're pratically admitting your vote to be worthless? Especially when we're at deadline already. As soon as Tony finds a replacement this day's over.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Well actually we have a few more hours until the deadline.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I didn't admit my vote to be worthless, I said that I was mistaken about the deadline.

You know your defense is making me laugh because, wait, why are you fos'ing me? Because I made a mistake about the deadline?

I think you are scum, I didn't make a 100k case against you sure, but people can judge what I said already. And they can read the post I linked and tell me if they don't think it pings of scum.

And anyway, I don't really care about the doubt that can be cast about me at this point because I'm thinking that keeping me alive or lynching me are both less than ideal situation for scum.

1. Getting me dead: helps town clear up the claim situation no matter what.

2. Keeping me alive: I'm frigging pugnacious and not too bad at scumhunting.

Oh btw, one more element I think make your scum Lynx, you saying something along the line of 'I think we should keep spring around as she is helpful' at the start of this day. It's scummy because I don't think town would have been petting my head so sycophantically especially since I had you down as scum yesterday. I had reserved my thought on this tidbit all day on the off chance you're dumb cop who verified my alignment and wanted to breadcrumd, but with your fos, your cutting off that possibility.

It's worthless because you've made this case so close to deadline. It's hard enough getting sufficient votes to lynch someone who's been scummy all day, now you want to lynch me when there hasn't been a case on me all day just hours before the deadline.

I'm FOSing you because it's clear you're not trying to get a lynch in today. Either you're attempting to draw attantion away from FHQ or you're deliberately trying to muddy the town's choice for the lynch today. Not at all because of you're inability to read the deadline timer.

Stop with the "I don't care about anything anybody says" attitude. It gets old real fast.

And stop boasting about you're scumhunting it's been anything, but spectacular these two days. Firstly, you're wrong about me scum. Secondly, if you were a good scum hunter you'd actually be able to provide reasoning to your suspicions instead just saying you don't have to back it up people can just believe you or not.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Well, then.

Unvote Vote gads

To avoid nolynch.

thank you

[Lynx The Antithesis]

And stop boasting about you're scumhunting it's been anything, but spectacular these two days. Firstly, you're wrong about me scum. Secondly, if you were a good scum hunter you'd actually be able to provide reasoning to your suspicions instead just saying you don't have to back it up people can just believe you or not.

Spring- I believe the doc claim and she's very low on my suspicion list now. I do feel like your posts have lacked as much as your previous content and lacked the same level of scum hunting you expressed earlier in the game ever since your claim(More Busy maybe?). Spring, you got lucky that you're still around today. You're basically a confirmed innocent and

i feel you're a good player. I think you can seriously help the town pinpoint these last scum.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 99#1524799

Lynx baby, I think you really overplayed your defence there. As for my case on you, in some things size doesn't count.

I could write the 100k words version of why you are scum. I'm just choosing not to. You may challenge me on this.

Yes and I feel it's fairly apparent that my opinion changed somewhat over the course of this day. The day one lurking seemed like a bad move and I was very against it. Then, you came out with some actual content and helped lynch scum Budja. Day two there was no kill and you were an uncountered doc. So of course at the start of Day 2 I thought of you as a "good" player. But now things have changed. You continued to lurk and just observe even after most people believed your claim. Jebus countered you which makes your protection much less likely now. You continued to embrace a stubborn attitude about your playstyle. If you're such a "good" scumhunter then why not contribute and make some actual cases. So yes my opinion of you has changed.

And I am obviously challenging you on this matter.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Infuriated as I am by your play (yes, you'll play how you want, yadda yadda) I will note one thing about Lynx's play which stood out to me - before each of the looming D2 deadlines he emphasised the importance of voting asap, HERE and HERE. As such, my curiosity is piqued - if you have evidence to cite for your case, then I would be very interested to hear it.

The first link I was more focused on getting our lynch ready in order to avoid a situation just like this. Not so much the voting aspect. The second link I do stress it because I feel many players have been sitting on the fence about their suspicions day 2. There aren't many voting patterns to observe on Day 2. I do admit to pushing for people to vote for one of the top two suspects in order to secure the lynch for today.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

And I am obviously challenging you on this matter.

Just so we are clear on this matter, do you think that I can't write the long version? And do you think that I'm lying a scum motivated lie when I say I'm just choosing not to do it?

It's more for defending myself purposes rather than thinking you can't write it. The timing of your case suggested to me that you were scum attempting to derail a lynch for today.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

target: spring lullaby. noone targeted springlullaby but me

I don't understand why you'd watch Spring over Jebus.

Lynx The Antithesis - scum verdict as per yesterday plus the whole OMGUS FOS

The OMGUS is complete bull.

Why did you choose to protect Spolium again? And why especially over Jebus?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Goat, I don't understand why spolium. He is like 50/50 to me, and lynx is much scummier in my book.

I'd like to know RC's reasoning to lynch me.

I'm considering a me lynch because 1. seeing my sanity flip might be helpful 2. i'm VLA 6th to 17 april.

So I'm much scummier than Spolium due to the next to nothing case you've presented against me?

What amount of info gained would be sufficient enough to sacrifice 2 townies with you're lynch(if you really are town)? How much would your sanity help us really? Possibly discovering Spolium's alignment?

Lynx 761 wrote:
I don't understand why you'd watch Spring over Jebus.

I'd actually rank them at about the same, I don't see a valid priority of one over the other, but I'm willing to hear you out if you have a reason for this Lynx.

Jebus was pushing the credibility of Spring's claim early Day 2. I saw no reason for scum to trade themselves for the doc day 2 especially after losing one with day 1's lynch. There was no reason to out himself unnecessarily. Lastly, I think a scum who countered a doc would push hard for that docs lynch. I saw him as the obvious doc out of the two.

Now in a way that gives some credit to Spring. Jebus did protect Spring night 1 and a claimed doc would be number one target for scum. The only option for Spring to be scum would be for her to waste the nightkill. Now this doesn't seem probable because I doubt the scum would skip their kill after being down a memeber. The one thing that does bother me is how easily Budja gave up like someone already mentioned. I would think that Budja would at least attempt to muddy Spring's claim rather than just resign to his lynch. I'm still on the fence about Spring. She really didn't do much hunting yesterday. The matching rhyme scheme also points more to Spring being legitimate though.

I'm at a loss at the moment for suspects. I'm questioning myself after being wrong about FHQ. Need to look over some things again.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

This is seriously ridiculous. Spring your vote on Sekinj seems motivated by this feud more than the game. Please don't suggest a modkill because they're not fun for anyone playing. If anything replacements are necessary. One of you maybe.

From a completely none-game related view point maybe you should replace out, Spring. You're going to be gone for basically the entire day 3 anyway(Our deadline's the 19th). And it this feud between you two would be put to rest. Better than a modkill pn anybody.

Back to the game, Rhinox I definitely see merit in your points against Don. I've had a strange feeling against him ever since he claimed. I feel his play has largely changed since the claim. His hunting has slipped and I'd like to hear his thoughts.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Sorry long long long weekend starting basically on thursday very similar to Goat's last post. I have a huge test tomorrow so I'm gonna have to cram tonight. Catch up post coming tomorrow afternoon.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

linx: how has my hunting "slipped"? what exactly has changed in my playstyle? mafia is a dynamic game and change is inevitable, so unless you can point to something specific and relevant i suggest you focus on something more productive

.

Your playstyle has changed to me based off your scumhunting. After your claim, I didn't see any other cases from you. You vote sekinj asking to talk more, Rhinox under deadline, and FHQ under deadline. This contrasts with your aggressive play earlier day 1 against Spring. Though you're recent attack against Spolium was much more similar to day 1. I saw a somewhat fade into the background after your claim. On top of this, I saw a definite buddy up to Spring with posts 483, 497, and 525.

If either you or Spring is scum(I believe you to be much more likely scum) then the scum gets a free ride to endgame. I'm not sure about your plan, but I'd much rather not like to leave it up to dice roll if we did settle on something like this. I certainly am lacking in the leads at the moment so I can entertain the idea. I'd much prefer to vote any candidates and then vote on the top one.

My three top suspects at the moment are Don, Sekinj, and Spolium.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Sekinj, I agree with you that I'm not a fan of Spring's play or attidue at points during this game. Things like her "I refuse to defend against crappy arguments" and "this is how I play" don't strike me well. But there's only so much you can do about it. I still believe her vote on you was fueled more on the feud than actual scumminess.

I haven't seen many cases from you so far because you've been so involved in this argument with Spring. Your vote for no lynch further solidifies this point. Who sticks out to you today besides RC?

Lynx The Antithesis - I'm amending this one, prolly town

I forgot to say something about this. What influenced your change of opinion? Especially considering the fact that I have largely not been participating in Day 3 so far.

Sekinj and Spoilum, what do you think of Don's proposal? You both posted after it without commenting on it.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Sekinj and Spoilum, what do you think of Don's proposal? You both posted after it without commenting on it.

I don't think Don's proposal is a terrible one, objectively speaking. The town's in a bit of a rut right now and if the general consensus is that we're the three most suspicious then it seems like a sensible strategy - chances are at least one of us is scum.

However, I really would suggest being careful with Don, whatever the town decides to do. Much like Spring he is coasting on his claim, and the point about a noticable change in his play post-claim seems to hold water.

I like this response.

Don, do you think that two docs and a watcher are more than enough power roles to balance the game? Do you think that there is no possibility of any other power roles?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

thinking and believing someone to be town is different than publicly endorsing them as 100% or confirmed, which is scummy imo.

I don't agree with this really. Many players state their opinions as if they're facts in mafia. I've seen town players make calls like this before and I think it all depends on the player.

Lynx 864 wrote:
After [don's] claim, I didn't see any other cases from you. You vote sekinj asking to talk more, Rhinox under deadline, and FHQ under deadline. This contrasts with your aggressive play earlier day 1 against Spring.


I can understand where you're coming from Lynx, but I have to disagree with this.

My main reason being that don has been given less of an opportunity to be as aggressive as he was earlier in the game. don, for better or for worse, strikes me as somewhat reactionary in his aggression. What I mean is, if don isn't being provoked, his posts seem more relaxed and broad.

That's not necessarily a good or a bad thing, just the vibe I've been getting from him as a player.

Incidentally, did the tussle between don/Spolium not do anything for you?

Not a bad assessment of Don's style. However, why has he been given any less opportunity to be aggressive than earlier today?

Don't you think it's somewhat scummy only to lash out when you're being provoked? It could be his playstyle, but one game with him I can't just give him the benefit of the doubt just yet.

The Spolium/Don dispute was more similar to earlier Don I'll give him that. I still find the change in play somewhat suspicious. If it hadn't been after a claim change, it'd be a completely different story. Once he claimed and everyone basically bought it, Don was not a focus anymore. And I think he took advantage of this thinking to stay low key. The change in play coincides with the claim basically which sticks out to me.



Post 884 by Sekinj comes off scummy to me. Like she's trying to be submissive and give in to all of RC's points to perhaps ease the pressure off herself. Be nice and cuddley to your attacker is a good way to avert some of the aggression.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Post 884 by Sekinj comes off scummy to me. Like she's trying to be submissive and give in to all of RC's points to perhaps ease the pressure off herself. Be nice and cuddley to your attacker is a good way to avert some of the aggression.

So, I need to scumhunt, but I'm not allowed to put pressure on people or question them and then accept their answer? not really understanding this...

'

Actually I mischaracterized it somewhat with your QFT and "completely agree" which were separate than your "good answer" and the OMGUS point. I simply associated all your signs of agreement with the attack when they were separate points. I thought all those answers were in response to RC's rebuttal, but some were just agreement with RC's other comments on the game. I admit my mistake. (Forgive me if this is hard to understand. It's difficult to convey your thought process and perspective sometimes.)

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Sorry, but I'm going to have to ask for a replacement.

Getting married this week and then I'll be away for 2 weeks.

Congrats man. I'm going to try to post tomorrow so hold tight kiddies.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I realized why I haven't posted here in awhile. It's because I'm waiting on sekinj's top suspects she said she'd post. And I know she's posted in another game with me several times since that promise. Are you stalling Sekinj?

Vote:Sekinj

maybe this'll give you more incentive.

Realistically we're in a rut and deadline's in as week. Maybe we do need Spring to move discussion along...

I've realized that while I'm reading it would be really helpful to know what everyone has claimed. Can somebody just give me the quick rundown of any claims made by living players?

Don has claimed watcher and Spring has claimed doctor.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Right now I'm taking a page from RC's book and using process of elimination to catch scum. While this is probably not the most efficient way to find scum, I feel theres really not too many points against anyone. I've narrowed it down to Don, Spolium, and Sekinj today. Don's claim still worries me, but I'm hesitant to lynch him if we possibly do have a powerful combination of watcher and Spring. Spolium has gone up and down for me. One moment I'll find him scummy and the next he'll bounce right back with a pro-town post. Lastly Sekinj has been lacking in any real signs of scumhunting. She hasn't really expressed many suspicions or stances before post 927. I don't mind the arguing with Spring so much.

I think Spring, RC, and Rhinox are town. I felt Goat was extremely pro-town 1 as well and I chalk his recent play up more to inactivity than scumminess.I don't see any case on him really. I read Ice pro-town off his interactions with Budja, but there isn't much else to go off of on him so far. His replacements contributed nothing to the game. Hopefully more of a read will be gained through his return to the game.

All in all I'm happy with a Sekinj lynch right now. Don as my second choice and Spolium a distant third.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

So... Is anyone going to back off? Or am I going to have to claim....

unvote

i think a claim would be appropriate.

agreed

[Lynx The Antithesis]

i'm your cop.
that's why I know Lynx is town, and why I think we have a godfather (unless Lynx is the godfather).

There were two nights. You should have two investigations. Why do you only have one? Also why did you choose to investigate me?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Hey everybody I'm gonna politely ask you all to STOP for a second and listen.

Heres a real shocker: I'm the

COP

not Sekinj. Thats right it's a counterclaim.

Now listen I've been skeptical of all these claims for most of the game. It just seemed like to much firepower with two docs, a watcher, and knowing myself to be a cop. Now Sekinj claiming cop just pushes that way past overkill.

She most likely claimed cop because

1. There was already an investigative role in a watcher so she probably doubted there'd be a cop.
2. There already have been many power roles outed so she most likely thought that was all of them.
3. She had plonky's inactivity to avoid giving two investigation results.
4. She's been the top lynch candidate for awhile now with relatively no one else that close. A power role claim was the only way to save herself really from a deadline lynch.
5. Since there were two docs if countered she could argue that there are possibly two cops as well with different sanities.

Now as for my investigation results.

Night one I investigated Jebus. Hence why I completely believed his claim over Springs. Also why I classified him as gut read town. I didn't want to completely flat out say I thought he was town and make my role blatantly obvious.

Night 2 investigation Rhinox: Innocent. Yup Rhinox is town. My sanity isn't too much in doubt since my results were correct about Jebus.

Now I don't buy a possibilty of two cops and certainly don't buy Sekinj's claim. She is scum and should definitely be lynched today.


We still have to go over the claim potential actions tonight. I'm skeptical about Don's claim however I still think planning this out can be useful.

I think both Spring and Don should randomize their abilities 50/50. For example, Spring randomly chooses either me or Don to protect. Don does the same. This way scum have to take a 50% risk of either getting their kill blocked or watched. All the while I clear another town. Yes, theres a risk and good chance one of us may die, but then scum would have to take a huge chance to take one of us down. This all depends on the three of us telling the truth though.

Now one of these two could be lying about their role of course. So we should discuss what the most effective plan would be to utilize tonight. I like my random method.

No one put her back at L-1 in case she decides to self hammer and end the day and end discussion!

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Mass claim can be pushed off to tomorrow. I agree with most of your plan Ice. Don is the only one left vulnerable, but he's also got some of the most suspicion revolving around his claim. So if he's not killed, then the scum are forced to take someone else out most likely a vanilla. I don't see any reason to believe Sekinj though Ice. Why should she be spared today? Do you honestly believe that there are this many power roles? The only one I believe for sure is Spring.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

quote="RC"]Lynx 983 wrote:
Why should [sekinj] be spared today?


Why should you?

I mean, if I thought there was just one Cop for sure, I would take you over sekinj any day of the week, but that's not what's at issue here. You have to remember that your towniness is supported primarily by two things, one, that most of us consider you town based on our own reads, and two, sekinj's possible investigation (which you yourself would have to null because you don't believe her).

I have to tell you Lynx, you're moving closer to scum on my own personal list. I'd definitely call Rhinox town before you now.

This could of course change depending on the night kill/investigations. [/quote]

Why would I possibly counterclaim the real cop as scum? Think about it for just a second? Is there any point to me countering when there has been relatively no suspcion on me all game? When the claimed cop has an innocent read on me? Why would I possibly throw that all out the window as scum to take out the cop when we're already down a member? It's just pointless and extremely absurd to me unless of course I am the real cop.

And I don't understand why you've been so adament about Don. Your unwavering belief in his claim is baffling me. The plan is all based around both of them telling the truth which is hard to swallow for me still.

I am not huge on the Spolium lynch right now. I'd much prefer Sekinj still. But considering I'm the cop it's not easy for me to let Sekinj go free. Her claim just feels like such Bull to me and why others are in doubt over it is beyond me.

I endorse the mass-claim

[Lynx The Antithesis]

EBWOP

Lynx 983 wrote:
Why should [sekinj] be spared today?


Why should you?

I mean, if I thought there was just one Cop for sure, I would take you over sekinj any day of the week, but that's not what's at issue here. You have to remember that your towniness is supported primarily by two things, one, that most of us consider you town based on our own reads, and two, sekinj's possible investigation (which you yourself would have to null because you don't believe her).

I have to tell you Lynx, you're moving closer to scum on my own personal list. I'd definitely call Rhinox town before you now.

This could of course change depending on the night kill/investigations.

Why would I possibly counterclaim the real cop as scum? Think about it for just a second? Is there any point to me countering when there has been relatively no suspcion on me all game? When the claimed cop has an innocent read on me? Why would I possibly throw that all out the window as scum to take out the cop when we're already down a member? It's just pointless and extremely absurd to me unless of course I am the real cop.

And I don't understand why you've been so adament about Don. Your unwavering belief in his claim is baffling me. The plan is all based around both of them telling the truth which is hard to swallow for me still.

I am not huge on the Spolium lynch right now. I'd much prefer Sekinj still. But considering I'm the cop it's not easy for me to let Sekinj go free. Her claim just feels like such Bull to me and why others are in doubt over it is beyond me.

I endorse the mass-claim

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Lynx 1000 wrote:
Is there any point to me countering when there has been relatively no suspcion on me all game? When the claimed cop has an innocent read on me? Why would I possibly throw that all out the window as scum to take out the cop when we're already down a member?


Like sekinj said, and I agree with, there is a strong possibility that the setup is balanced through multiple power roles, right? You agree with this possibility? Well, if that's the case, wouldn't it make sense, for, like sekinj said, mafia to claim a power role? Why not two? I mean, you win either way as a Cop.

If sekinj comes up mafia, then you "have" to be the real Cop. If sekinj comes up Cop, then, hey, there's two Doctors! You're clear!

If you, as mafia, chose not to cc sekinj and just claim blue, sure, you aren't being suspected today, sure, you weren't suspected yesterday, but what about tomorrow? You're far from untouchable Lynx. Hypothetically, let's say tomorrow don takes a risk (please don't, don) and watched, I don't know, Ice? Ice dies. He says he saw Lynx visit Ice.

By claiming Cop, at least you've bought yourself some leeway, a blue claim would've gotten you none at all.

I wouldn't even argue that claiming Cop as mafia is necessarily more bold, given all the claims that have came out so far. I agree with sekinj on that, the mafia may very well be feeling this situation out.

Keep in mind that doesn't mean I think mass claiming is a good idea. Why do you support it? Other than the fact that you've already claimed I mean

.

I never agreed to the set-up being balanced through multiple power roles. Too many power roles get confusing and overbalance one side or the other. Hence why I've been especially skeptical of Don's claim and even more so of Sekinj's claim now.

Now you're saying two possibilites of me scum countering Sekinj scum or town. If she's mafia I'm accepted as the real cop. If she's town then I can argue my way out because there are two docs. This was my exact reasoning why Sekinj took the gamble and fake claimed cop. She's the one pushing this overkill power role setup by the mod. I just don't buy it.

And I I never said I was untouchable. Far from it. I was just pointing out the situation I was in it seemed absurd to counter a cop who has an innocent read on me. The only way in your theory you see me as mafia is based on Sekinj as mafia as well.

Ugh and again you've shown yourself to view Don's claim as fact rather than with a more skeptical approach. Which strangely you are doing with Sekinj's and my own claim.

The only reason I'm for a mass claim is because there has to be more vanillas like FHQ. I think any more revealed power roles would weaken the credibility of some of these previous claims which I'm still trying to see through here. But I can see why people are against a mass claim.

RC, a two docs, two cops and a watcher is just plain ridiculous for a mini regardless of sanity. Maybe it's just me but I haven't seen a mini close to this. Thats why I think somebody's lying.

1000 wrote:
And I don't understand why you've been so adament about Don. Your unwavering belief in his claim is baffling me. The plan is all based around both of them telling the truth which is hard to swallow for me still.


don kept spring alive didn't he? don also called two no visits correctly in a game with possibly four (and very possibly even more) town roles visiting various people. You're going to call that luck? If don is mafia, then don is one hell of a ballsy mafia player.

And are you really still suggesting spring is scum? Really, Lynx?

Moreover, your plan of lynching sekinj today is completely based on you telling the truth, is it not? Actually Lynx, I want to press you harder. I think you have the burden of proof here, not us. There are very likely two Doctors, why is it, in your mind, more likely that there is only one Cop than there is two? I will grant you that both of us had a hard time accepting Jebus and spring as Doctors yesterday, but now that that's basically been proven the case, how come, all of a sudden, people warming to the idea of two Cops is "beyond you"?

Don has called very little as far as I'm can see. He watched you night one when Spring was the obvious target for that night. And of course he mixed up the role. Then night two he watched spring in accordance with the plan. We don't know if Jebus targeted Spring and any cop in his right mind would investigate either of the three of them and risk wasting an investigation. Scum would obviouslly be thinking about taking one of themm down. And whoever died would bring some light on their claims.

Not suggesting Spring as scum. Don is who I'm pointing at.

I'll say it again I highly doubt two docs two cops and a watcher. Just doesn't seem riight to me. Just cause there is a strong possibility of two docs certainly doesn't mean there are two cops.

I'm in a rush and I have to go. I'll post again later.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I meant to say in my last post that no cop in his right mind would investigate one of those poweroles and risk losing an investigation over clearing a townie. You make sense on Don though RC I hadn't thought of that. And I'm naturally skeptical of claims as well so I can see your point of view why you'd be cautious of my own. Of course to me it's going to appear much more obvious the circumstances of my claim. And it's easier for me to see through Sekinj than yourself because I know my role.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Hey I got some work to do the next couple of days. V/LA until Wednesday.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Wednesday is deadline, Lynx. Is there no chance you'll be able to contribute before then?

I completely completely forgot the deadline's tomorrow. I have a stat test tomorrow and I have to pick my classes for next semester tomorrow as well. However, I'm willing to slack on my studying to get a few posts in here and there tonight.

Now as for role pm. I can verify that Sekinj and Don are telling the truth. I as well have role name, action, result, and win condition. Spring doesn't have results because she doesn't get anything back from her protections. This somewhat lessens my suspicion for Sekinj because of her willingness to paraphrase first. And because people have pointed out the possibility of several cops with different sanities. Which makes me more inclined to accept it as a possibility.

If Sekinj is telling the truth then the only possibilty is that she's naive considering I know my alignnment. Though I can also be naive considering that I've only gotten innocent results.

I'm not for a Spolium deadline lynch. I don't think he's scum.

I'll be here to post throughout the day if I successfully procrastinate...which I will

[Lynx The Antithesis]

If Sekinj is telling the truth then the only possibilty is that she's naive considering I know my alignnment.

What?? how does getting a town aligned result on you make me naive?

Definitely didn't mean only naive sorry. I meant the only possiblity is naive or just a normal cop. We both have the possibility of being naive if we haven't gotten any guilty results.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Knowing that her pm matches up, Don are you still for a Sekinj lynch?

Sekinj and Rhinox you're the only ones not voting. How do you stand on a Spoilum deadline lynch?

We don't have much time until deadline. We need to work this out fairly soon.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I'm not so keen on it anymore. I havn't really liked RC's latest responses...

Agreed, Sekinj, agreed.

Unvote

for until I decide who I'm satisfied to lynch.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I still have relatively no read on Ice. His day 1 actions aren't sufficient enough to go by alone. He hasn't provided much content today, but he did come in half way. I'd leave him around for further observation. Goat's activity has been rather poor as of the last few days. But it's not like he's been posting around the site. I don't think his inactivty should damn him.

I will not participate in a lynch of Spring or Rhinox for any reason. And I've grown more uncomfortable lynching any claimed roles in Sekinj or Don.

That leaves Spolium and RedCoyote. I think there's a strong possibilty that one of them is scum. I was rather suspicious of Spolium earlier today, but he recovered throughout the day. I was not suspicious of RC, but recently I agree he's gotten worse. I'm fairly sure I'll be voting one of them before deadline.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I have class until around 3, then I have to pick my classes for next semester. I'll get my vote in one way or another before the 5 o'clock deadline.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Vote:RedCoyote

I think he's scum over Spolium. I wish I didn't have to rush my decision like this, but there's little choice.

Deadline's in like an hour. Our activity is so poor around these. We really have to organize our lynches much earlier.

I will switch to Spolium if necessary to get a lynch. I'd prefer not to and I'd like to get a little discussion in before the deadline hits. Anybody here?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Mod

, is it no lynch if the proper number of votes aren't met or is it simply majority secures lynch?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

@lynx - is there anyway we can be sure to not investigate the same person tongiht?

Questions like these make me believe more strongly that you're the cop. Lets see we have Ice, Spring, Goat, RC, Don, Rhinox, Spolium. Now I already investigated Rhinox and we both agree on Spring so we should leave them out. Most likely either RC or Spolium will be lynched today. So that leaves Goat, Don, Ice, and Spolium/RC.

I'm fine with taking two you take two. We don't reveal who we're choosing out of the pair. Thoughts, alternatives, or preference on your two?

Hopefully RC will stop by before deadline. I'd like to see his thoughts.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Ok that'll work. I might have to switch my vote to Spolium in the next couple minutes. Deadline's in 15 I'll wait about ten.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I'm here can somebody hammer RC or are Ice and I going to have to switch back? Answers needed quick.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

RC's at L-1 and spolium L-3 I think

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Thats a hammer vote.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Damn...

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Damn good job scum. I really didn't have any suspicion of Goat until the end of Day three where I targeted him. We should have had that in the bag after nailing the roleblocker. I wish I stuck to Don more, I knew there was a connection between him and Budja. The claim threw me off guard and I let him go. I only knew he was scum this day with his results on Rhinox. After Red Coyote flipped tracker I knew Don was tracked and was a watcher. And I was pretty sure Sekinj was a cop with her paraphrased role pm. So that left Goat to investigate. Too bad I was naive...

Town's downfall was deadline lynches. We never had organized our lynches early enough which ended up in rushed choices like RC. This is especially upsetting cause it was my first town loss and the town had a huge advantage after day 1.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I can also post the scum QT, if don doesn't mind.

I'd much enjoy seeing this.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Damn good job scum. I really didn't have any suspicion of Goat until the end of Day three where I targeted him. We should have had that in the bag after nailing the roleblocker. I wish I stuck to Don more, I knew there was a connection between him and Budja. The claim threw me off guard and I let him go. I only knew he was scum this day with his results on Rhinox. After Red Coyote flipped tracker I knew Don was tracked and was a watcher. And I was pretty sure Sekinj was a cop with her paraphrased role pm. So that left Goat to investigate. Too bad I was naive...

I expected you to target don that night, actually, because it seemed like you had me pegged as likely town. Don did a good job at avoiding suspicion. People attacked him all game for various things, and he ended up somehow avoiding getting lynched.

For all of Day 2 I thought you were the most obvious town. Oh how wrong I was. You played day 1 great in my opinion. It's a shame inactvity hindered your performance later on. But real life takes priority. I didn't investigate Don because I caught RC's tracking breadcrumb and obvious defense for him. So I really thought he was watcher. Sekinj became much more believable with her cop claim so that left just you as my investigation. Again well played overall.