Mini 730 - Hard Nights in the City - OVER!
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Porkens Survivor
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1. The last sentence in Megatheory's post says to me he's assuming/knows you're town, too.don_johnson wrote:Megatheory wrote:
Self voting is ridiculously stupid. It accomplishes nothing positive for the town and provides no information that we can use to determine your alignment. Knock it off. Seriously. Don't try to defend this boneheaded action or you will just be risking getting yourself lynched for no benefit whatsoever.
sorry, i thought we were in the random/joke vote phase.
unvote
funny. it is "ridiculously stupid" and has "no benefit", yet you use my self vote to show your towniness.
just to be clear: have we moved past the random/joke vote phase?
2. "Are we out of RVS?" -ahhhh, a question for the ages.
Correcting them?Nameless wrote:Vote: Danchaofanwho is clearly looking for an excuse to vote somebody rather than correct them. Or is he just HOPING for a townie to be modkilledWhatis this? A Newbie game? Can't we assume that everyone has read and understood the rules using their own god damn faculties?
And how do you know Ger is town, anyway?
You know what, don't even bother answering. Lynch this man.
vote: Nameless-
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moar laterPenguin wrote: Porkens: 4.5
1) PLEASE post more. You have 5 posts but little content. If you are town, this is bad play. If you are scum, this is a tell IMO.
With this extended Day 1, I'm not really worried about posting like crazy. Day 1 is usually dry to me until it's time to look back at it, anyway. I will make an effort to contribute, and I appologize if it seems like I've been ignoring you guys.
2) why do you feel that mega suggested that he and don_johnson are town? What was there specifically in mega's post that brought this to your attention and made you think to bring it up to everyone? What do you now think of them and their arguement?
The tenor of his "teaching" voice, to me, assumed that the scummy behavior was just bad play. It didn't seem to me that he was even considering the possibility that his "student" was town.
3) Why were you so hellbent for a little bit on lynching Nameless? And why wouldn't you want him to answer?! No matter the result of that lynching, we would have been working off of NO info and that makes it seem very scummy IMO. You seemed very certain but now, without any info about it, you changed your vote. Why? Was the first vote random, as you would almost suggest in your last post? This is so confusing....
Of course it was random/silliness.
4) I am patiently waiting for your additional thoughts because you really need them to come soon so that others don't start getting an uneasy feeling about your play so far....
Fair enough :p-
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*sigh*, this always seems to happen day one.
I don't want to/will not regurgitate what you all have already said. I've decided that yes, penguin should claim or die, based on the casesyou peoplehave presented.
And christ, I hope someone does quckhammer. that'll certainly give some direction to day two.-
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@Megatheory: Lynching Penguin right now is, unfortunetly (:lol:), not the right way to go. I know getting someone to L-1 (you're welcome) and then having it fall apart is frustrating, but getting to L-1 isn't a scumtell. And claiming a power role like tracker (with no CC) is a pretty fine reason to let someone live till Day 2. Maybe the scum will kill him, maybe not, maybe they'll try and get blocked, maybe not. It's really not important. The important thing is that we focus on other avenues at this time. If you want to hammer out what we do with Penguin: Let him live until we have reason to suspect that he is lying about his claim.
@Plum: You asked me what I meant by "the last few interactions going to Nameless." Nameless and Don, and a bit Ger too, were having a talk about WIFOM. I meant that I agreed with Nameless: it wasn't wifom to begin with. Don seemed to be arguing from the stance that Nameless' main arguments were WIFOM. They were not.
About penguin; Yeah, instead of talking about "gut" or "vibes" I said "real reasons." The L-1 vote was to get pressure and to keep the day moving. I love keeping Day-1s hot and fast in general and what you guys had been saying about penguin contradicting himself etc. was good enough at the time to force a claim. Now there is simply more evidence that he is town rather than scum. But that doesn't mean there was ever any hard evidence to begin with that somehow got controverted.
@Nameless: Here's some terrible meta for you: Iusuallythink people are town, and chances are they will be on day 1.-
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Meh, I think you're getting kind of pedantic here.Porkens wrote:
The L-1 vote was to get pressure and to keep the day moving.
Porkens earlier wrote:
I hope someone does quckhammer.
Ending the day counts as keeping it moving now?
If someone quickhammers, really and truely BAM before the claim when there is certainly going to be one...that's great because it will focus the game and (hopefuly) get people talkin'.
Or my answer can be; the day didn't end, did it?-
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Porkens Survivor
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-Penguin can only get off the hook if he finds a player who targeted a dead player.
-If that player is lynched and comes up scum, penguin should be lynched unless he finds another player who targeted a dead player.
-This continues until penguin does not find a scum or three scum are dead. At that point, penguin is lynched.
-We guarantee that penguin does not survive until endgame.
Is this the plan y'all are referring to? In spirit, I don't think there's much difference between this and "let him live until he screws up," but...
Let's look at it from an odds point of view.
If he's really a tracker, and given 3 scum, and no town visiting roles, you're giving him a 75% chance ofnotfulfilling your criteria and getting lynched.
Are you really comfortable with that?
Just know that going back on your ~plan~ is going to look scummy if you decide it's actually not such a great idea tomorrow.-
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I see what don was referring, correctly so, as the wifom in nameless' argument.
Even talking about what the doctor ~should~ or ~shouldn't~ do at this point, I think, is probably wasteful. You can always yell at him/her in twilight or closer to a lynch. I'll go along with the FOS from Juls on this one.
Can we please get a vote count on this page already?gosh...-
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Plea to emotion.Ger wrote:i don't know why you are bashing me with it so much...
I think I may have started this with my comment on the probability of megatheory's plan catching scum. My original formula was wrong, obviously;Ger wrote: I don't think it was misunderstood at all. It was vague. That's the reason it stood out to me as suspicious. It looks like a vague suggestion for a random lynch.
and the correct one would depend entirely on whether all the scum visit the target or not.
Here: [quote="ger]i strongly suspect mafia come out best and town would be better off random lynching day one... [/quote]ger wrote:where on earth did i suggest random lynching for this game?
I think it's pretty clear what you mean here; from your experience, you guyss random lynching day 1 has a statistically better chance to hit scum than not. And that'sfinewith me, you can state that.
I don't think it's scummy to suggest a random lynch day 1. What is scummy-est is all the backpedaling about this statement that you've done.
unvote, vote: Geraintm-
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Should I read this as an answer of "No"? I think it's important...Ger wrote:
what purpose does this achieve? i haven't killed anyone yet.Porkens wrote:
Shot and Beheaded look like our two kill flavors. Ger, without quoting, can you share any clues you might have as to your kill flavor?
My first instinct tells me that there aren't two trackers in the game, and your JOAT with only two abilities also doesn't make sense. You're defense in this long post gives me a bad feeling in my tummy.Ger wrote: why do you think i am lying? has there been anything about my claim that strikes you as feeling untrue? have i not been forthcoming and given as much info as possible? what could i have done with my role to make you believe me more???
There's one more thing, you said this:
You're pretty vehement about not talking about and SK, while to me the night 0 looks awfully like a big "HAY GUYS" from our mod.Ger wrote: plum, i brought up the night zero kills because there had been discussion of possible sk because of the two kills, i wanted to kill that discussion till there is some evidence. i didn't mean to sidetrack talk today now with that, i was trying to kill talk on a pointless topic of the existence of a SK.
My vote stays on the SK.-
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While I do admire the straightforwardness of this post, I must ask if there isJuls wrote: Vote: don_johnsonanything elseyou'd care to add to it?
Here's some classic WIFOM for you: If she were going to "set us up," couldn't she be aDon wrote: it was seriously argued that mega's misinterpreted argument of "if one of nameless or dj is town, the other must be scum", was a horrible theory, and yet now, because nameless flipped town, juls is voting for me before any other information is revealed. kind of feels like she is setting us up.littlemore subtle about it?
OMGUS, or what? The going theory, at the time, was that one of you needed to be lynched. I would have rathered it was you, plain and simple.Don wrote: porkens vote was heinous. insidious. blatant bandwagoning for a lynch. not particularly any different than his playstyle for the entire day, but pretty blatantly anti-town.
I really don't care for this line. You've just told us how you shouldn't be lynched, you have one (count 'em ONE) vote on you, and you're already bargaining for a night kill instead.Don wrote: i would like there to be discussion. if we decide to string me up, so be it. if we have a vig, i am a much better nightkill.
vote: Don_Johnson-
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Answering Don's Question:
Remember that the persondon_johnson wrote: you have never explained why. that is not plain and simple. like i said, you explained nothing yesterday. to explain myself, until your last vote you were in my "neutral" category with dan and chaos. this unexplained vote moved you to anti town. not because you voted me, but because you voted without explanation.Iwanted to lynch was Ger, but Nameless demanded that I vote for one of the two of you. I found that demand to be a fairly townie (maybe not pro-town) thing to do, so I figured if one of you were actually scum, it was probably you, not Nameless. So you were, at the time, simply scummy by comparison.
Continued Suspicion of Don:
The point isn't to clear you, though! At that point, we would want to clear Ger. And if you are town, why do you want to waste our 1 vig shot to prove it?!don_johnson wrote: i don't look at it as "bargaining". i am just trying to help town. lynching me would put us at even steven tomorrow from the looks of it(assuming three anti town roles.) all i'm saying is that town allegedly has a vig. from the flavor and number of the kills per night we should reasonably believe that we can clear him. sure there is wifom, mafia could send in a no kill, but at least i would be cleared without a mislynch.
Appeal to emotion.don_johnson wrote:i am a dead man walking. that much is clear. you guys just need to make the right choices to win this game. if anything, my day 1 play should be a complete null tell, so lynching me will prove nothing.
That's an interesting observation but you know you aren't confirmed to the rest of us.don_johnson wrote:just noticing this, but from my point of view, if ip is telling the truth(and barring the existence of an investigation immune role), juls would be the only unconfirmed on the bandwagon. i am wondering if mine and nameless' argument could have caused a complete self destruction?
And all aboutthisbusiness:Atronach wrote:Last, a quick lynch with little discussion will not be helpful for us the next day. Let's get the track results and get discussion going.don_johnson wrote:porkens: do you have any other suggestions for a lynch? or would you rather force through the day, like juls, without discussion, investigation results, etc.?Danchaofan wrote:Yes, we are now at 5 to lynch so can we please wait for IP and gers's actions. I think following what NL said we should take a closer look at MT (I'm in the process right now).NO, I demand a lynch NOW, before, there is any sharing of information. I demand that we ignore the clues we may get from our supposed trackers and quicklynch the most obvious choice im-fucking-mediately.
Really???Was this such a danger that all three of you had to warn the town about it?FOS on Atro, Don, and Dan
Don and Dan
Sorry that I've been frustrating.don_johnson wrote:if the rest of the wagon was town, it is reasonable for juls to be just what she claims: confused town. porkens, though frustrating, is at least consistent. their vote on me could simply have been "hey i like nameless better." dan wasn't even paying attention to what was going on yesterday. and today he is arguing logic with me. also, i believe his whole "why is don still calling nameless anti-town" to be strawman. focusing on something that isn't terribly relevant to the issue at hand. if ip is telling the truth that means that not only did nameless lynch himself, but he did it with a lot of town help. can anyone honestly deny that nameless' self hammer was in any way protown? he may have thought it was, but it very plainly wasn't. to argue this makes no sense to me.
In adition to that, while I belive you're right in that the argument could be a strawman; I just wanted to remind you (all) thatbeing wrong != scummy.
Juls is starting to send out a strong scum vibe today:
Do you hate day 2 like I hate day 1 ? You've go the pedal to the metal!Juls wrote:Folks, this is the misinformation that makes don_johnson scummy. Megatheory is NOT confirmed just because IP says he didn't go anywhere. It only means that if megatheory is mafia he did not send in the kill. The tracker role ONLY tells you who was targetted and not what action they did. It does NOT tell you his guilt or innocence. Furthermore, NOTHING has been said or done to confirm don_johnson. Please lynch don or Megatheory...I am willing to vote for either.
Like Don said,IFpenguin is telling the truth (which I'm inclined to believe at this point), Mega has a 12.5% chance to be the scum, in your scenario, that didn't send in the kill, and IS NOT the serial killer. Those are, in fact, pretty decent odds.
And, I have to agree with Don on this point; What's with the strong Megascum feelings?-
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Ok, I guess if you were thinking we were in Lylo, what you said makes sense. The bit of WIFOM at the end is the kind I like, too.don wrote: no, the point was not to clear me. the point is to clear both of us without a mislynch.
...
maybe, but upon further review and given what little i know of our mod, i doubt he would give town a situation that would be unwinnable with mislynches on both day 1 and day 2, so i'm not sure it is going to be all that detrimental to lynch me. i would rather hit scum today, though, and i'm not sure how much information my lynch would provide. i will leave that up to the rest of you. i am not trying to appeal to emotion as much as i am to common sense. if i am scum, i am brazen.
Speaking of connections, I think that's the second time you've directly complimented atronach's townie-ness.Don wrote: i have no comment on your connections, i have had atronach in my town column for a while, mainly because of his level headed ness. dan just seems to be stuck in second gear and i have previously stated how i feel.
This I agree with whole-heartedly. Juls needs to put a little more into her bulldogging.Don wrote: juls is slowly earning my vote. but like i said, i am not driving today.-
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That actually makes a great deal of sense.don_johnson wrote: my guess - he knew penguin would be out, but would not necessarily know where penguin went. by avoiding saying where penguin went(even though penguin admitted it) he avoids the situation where penguin comes back and says, "gotcha, i actually visited so and so." unlikely, but it is certainly convenient. point: by backtracking to watcher he gets out of having to commit anyone to a location.
However, it doesn't jive with the implications you drew earlier about Ger and IP:
Don wrote:ger's claim itself, his reaction to my ebwop where i posted info from the wikiguide regarding the role he claimed, and his lack of contribution and questionable "watcher" results all raise my suspicion of him. his results conveniently leave IP and himself clear.it would have been more believable for our "vig" to claim roleblocked. point is: he should have vig'd me. he should have vig'd someone, or mafia should have targeted him somehow.-
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Megatheory wrote: I was clubbed unconscious last night. I doubt that would have any effect on penguin's power if he really is a tracker.what?
What kind of miracle?Megatheory wrote: Also, in case it's not clear, we are in LYLO. We have nine players now. 9 alive - 1 lynch - 2 kills = 6 which is a town loss barring some kind of miracle. This basically makes my plan on dealing with penguin an extraordinarily bad idea.-
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Sorry, I guess I don't understand what you mean here by:don_johnson wrote:
i don't see what you mean. i wasn't implying that they were working together, if that's what you are getting at. if there is some glaring problem you will have to point it out.Porkens wrote:
That actually makes a great deal of sense.don_johnson wrote: my guess - he knew penguin would be out, but would not necessarily know where penguin went. by avoiding saying where penguin went(even though penguin admitted it) he avoids the situation where penguin comes back and says, "gotcha, i actually visited so and so." unlikely, but it is certainly convenient. point: by backtracking to watcher he gets out of having to commit anyone to a location.
However, it doesn't jive with the implications you drew earlier about Ger and IP:
Don wrote:ger's claim itself, his reaction to my ebwop where i posted info from the wikiguide regarding the role he claimed, and his lack of contribution and questionable "watcher" results all raise my suspicion of him. his results conveniently leave IP and himself clear.it would have been more believable for our "vig" to claim roleblocked. point is: he should have vig'd me. he should have vig'd someone, or mafia should have targeted him somehow.
his results conveniently leave IP and himself clear.
If you don't mean they could be scumbuddies, what did you mean?-
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Sorry guys, I was called in to sub today, I meant to be posting earlier.
;Mega
I don't know what you mean about "making things a hell of a lot easier for penguin" if we massclaimed. Are you saying making it easier for the tracker to do his business is abadthing?
Ahhh, I see what you mean! It just seemed like such a genuine "duh" moment to claim tracker when you're actually a watcher, it's so dumb, I couldn't work out how a scum, who would be thinking about it carefuly, could make the mistake. But, as someone pointed out, a night of thinking could clearly come up with the realization that watcher is a much smarter claim.Mega wrote:Porkens wrote:That's a horrible breadcrumb, bro :p
But, even though, maybe even because, you flubbed your role, your claim makes 1000X more sense now, so I believe ya.
That post wasn't really a breadcrumb at all because it came after ger claimed and in twilight. It makes perfect sense for scum to have a plan of action by the time the day is over. His "breadcrumb" proves absolutely nothing. Why does his mistake make his claim more believable anyway?
But...Mega wrote:I will never distance myself from the Namless lynch or a don lynch if it happens.
Huh?Mega wrote:I'd really, really hear why Juls thinks don is so suspicious because I can't find anything on him at this point.
Juls
You seem to have guessed something about Meatheory in 504. I just can't see a scum saying this in this particular way. That's a good case in 508.
Vote: Don
For me, the massclaim is the scummiest thing. Don's been talking all day about how he is mostly resigned to being killed either today or tonight, but asking for everyone (the REST of the power roles if, in fact, there are any) to reveal themselves is an obvious gambit imho.
Also, Juls choice to claim blue is too ballsy a play for scum, at this point, imho.-
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I'm surprised that Dan didn't RB atro and kill a townie! Much higher chance of an SK victory that way.
Given that the town won like this; I shudder what it would have been like if their power-roles had survived!
Good vig shot...ass.
I was immune to knives!
And immune to cop investigations LAWL (grumble).
http://www.quicktopic.com/42/H/2RR8diGd3jaME
Thanks to my partner Atro, definitely played a stronger game than i did.-
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We, the scum, kept you around because you kept lynching the townJuls wrote: -I would really like anyone/everyone to give me advise on how I could play better. I tried hard but I know I made mistakes. Please be constructive with your criticism though, don't just bash me cause you don't like me. I want to improve.
Which isn't all bad. If I had been town, I would have gone after Don as well. Nameless, probably not...
You definitely had a big role on the last day; cementing the win for the town; you should feel good about that.
In general, I'd say lynch more lurkers-
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