Mini 727 - Mafia in Standardville - Game Over

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Vote:BSG

Your little penguin is eyeing me the wrong way.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Doesn't having a real reason behind your vote make it serious though? I don't take much from that vote though. It comes off rather random and jokey by how he opened it up.

I'm not a huge fan of the Artem L-2 vote from charter, but I do find it interesting that Artem didn't vote. There's no reason not to vote. I think Artem is being careful not to draw the same attention he received from his first vote.

Vote:Artem

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I'm not a huge fan of the Artem L-2 vote from charter, but I do find it interesting that Artem didn't vote. There's no reason not to vote. I think Artem is being careful not to draw the same attention he received from his first vote.
Vote:Artem

See above. (Also, if there is no reason not vote, then why aren't you voting charter yourself?)

I'm not voting Charter because I don't find his vote suspicious. I think it fufilled it's intended purpose by evoking a response. On the otherhand, you FOSed him. You've expressed some suspicion of the move so thats why I asked why you didn't vote for him.

So do you think it's scummy only because of the WIFOM? Do you think that charter is not an opportunistic scum pouncing on an easy target then?

BSG shouldn't be worried about the wagon on himself because the wagon is largely from the random voting. I think to say that's he's not worried because a scum partner's on his wagon is a stretch. I wouldn't be worried about it either because there's no basis for the wagon. There's little he can do to defend it. All he can do is continue to scum hunt which he is currently attempting to do.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Confirm. I'm still here and ready to play.

Panzer, why is it only scummy to put someone at L-2? You put BSG at L-3. There isn't a huge difference between the two. You're calling out charter on his vote which is very similar to your own.

Also, Lowell, I believe it's a cop out to say you forgot everything since the site crashed. You could easily reread the pages and recall your earlier thoughts. I think you just don't want to back up your vague statements with some actually evidence.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Artem, I would put someone at L-2 just to see what happens. Mostly, as a means of pressure to see how the wagonee would react. However, the part most of us find scummy is the fact that charter placed the L-2 directly after Panzer stated it was scummy to do so. This is a direct challenge to it and entirely WIFOM(why would I place the vote if I knew it was scummy? What scum would be so boisterous?)

And just for everyone's info as Master Ruck has stated, I first said BSG has nothing to worry about because most of the votes on her were random. So don't jump to the conclusion that BSG is a calm townie because I may have instilled some sense of safety in her without hearing from her first. Fault on me cause it defeats any purpose of gauging her reaction from the wagon.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Ok, so much has happened while I was internet handicapped for a brief period. Many of which, are extremely scummy.

First, Darox, your claim seems completely fabricated in order to avoid any nightkill possible. It came completely out of no where and wasn't needed right now.Seems like a complete act out of self-preservation. Second, you're completely misreading the entire charter vote business. I didn't like the vote

PURELY

for the WIFOM aspect. Simply because Panzer right before said it was scummy to do so. Charter's vote was a direct challenge to Panzer's statement. I didn't find scummy the vote itself because I believe it was used more for pressure purposes rather than any other means. But the way it was brought into WIFOM territory was my major grief.

FOS:Darox

Also, with BSG, I did say first that BSG has nothing to worry about because most of the votes were random. I said this after Artem questioned why BSG wasn't focusing on the wagon on her. I said it largely because the reaction that BSG could have given had already passed. Upon rereading the incidence, BSG had already proven calm before I had stated the defense really. Despite what I earlier said about my defense nullifying her reaction, I see now that her reaction was gauged already. She proved a calm, scum hunting town. Which is what any townie should do when their is no basis for a wagon on themselves and they have nothing to defend.

The quick hammer by Xdaamno was extremely Scummy.

FOS:Xdaamno

Definitely want some answers on this vote. However, I am keeping in mind the fact that Xdaamno hasn't really been involved in the game. I think carelessness could be the major cause of his vote. He hasn't seemed to pay much attention to the game. Certainly doesn't excuse a vote of such magnitude though.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

You haven't been paying to much attention to this game have you?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Second, you're completely misreading the entire charter vote business. I didn't like the vote

PURELY

for the WIFOM aspect. Simply because Panzer right before said it was scummy to do so. Charter's vote was a direct challenge to Panzer's statement. I didn't find scummy the vote itself because I believe it was used more for pressure purposes rather than any other means. But the way it was brought into WIFOM territory was my major grief.

So you didn't like charters vote, but you did like the vote, and you would do it yourself, but you don't like the WIFOM. It seems you're holding a very contrary position here and playing both sides of the field.
But answer this. If panzer hadn't said what he did, would charters vote still be in 'WIFOM territory'?

Onwards...

Also, with BSG, I did say first that BSG has nothing to worry about because most of the votes were random. I said this after Artem questioned why BSG wasn't focusing on the wagon on her.

I said it largely because the reaction that BSG could have given had already passed.

Upon rereading the incidence, BSG had already proven calm before I had stated the defense really. Despite what I earlier said about my defense nullifying her reaction, I see now that her reaction was gauged already. She proved a calm, scum hunting town. Which is what any townie should do when their is no basis for a wagon on themselves and they have nothing to defend.

Now this is pretty much a textbook turnaround. First comment on BSG, you defend her and explain her calm response. In the second comment, you denouce your actions and state her calm response was false because you muddied it with your defence. In this third comment, you go back to her being a calm townie completely unsullied by your defence and even counter your previous statement that it ruined reactions by stating 'the time for a reaction had already passed', which begs the question of why you ever issued the second comment. You've done so many 180's that I'm surprised you can still see straight. And it doesn't explain why you felt compelled to defend her in the first place.

I would only put someone at L-2 for the pressure aspect. And yes if Panzer had not said what he said it would not have been WIFOM whatsoever. The only scummy aspect of the vote was the WIFOM which I've stated numerous times already. The vote itself wasn't nearly as bad as the WIFOM that got mixed with it.

his one was a fault on my part all led by the second reponse on the issue "denouncing" the first. In the second comment I adressed the whole BSG thing because I felt people were giving her too much credit as a townie because of her reaction to the wagon.I misplaced the fact that her emotions had already been displayed before I gave the earlier defense. Upon reread, I saw that her status as a rational townie under the wagon had been established already before my statement. Therefore I corrected my stance in the second comment. The second response comes from wrongly placed chronology of what happened earlier. Once I looked over it again, the proper order of the events were more clear.

And regarding the entire defending in the first place. Anyone that I believe is being called out for something flawed, I'll point it out.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

his one was a fault on my part all led by the second reponse on the issue "denouncing" the first.

In the second comment I adressed the whole BSG thing because I felt people were giving her too much credit as a townie because of her reaction to the wagon.

I misplaced the fact that her emotions had already been displayed before I gave the earlier defense. Upon reread, I saw that her status as a rational townie under the wagon had been established already before my statement. Therefore I corrected my stance in the second comment. The second response comes from wrongly placed chronology of what happened earlier. Once I looked over it again, the proper order of the events were more clear.

Actually, I said that and it seems like you jumped on that idea to try and admit your fault to look more town. Now you're claiming it was your thought and you're trying to set it aside having reread and realised that jumping on that idea may not have been a good plan.

I do have to wonder, can you keep on the same train of thought for more than 10 seconds?

What exactly did you say? I can hardly understand your thoughts with the way you phrased this. Are you proposing that I intentionally made a fault
and admitted to it just to appear town?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Ok I understand your view now, but I think we're having a difference in defining "speaking up" on BSG's part. I consider BSG's speaking up when she specifically says in post 51 that she has nothing to worry about directly after my post 51 where I utter basically the same words. When I "jumped" on you about BSG all I recalled from the incidence that I was the first to say she had nothing to worry about. In reality, she had already proven herself under the pressure before I issued the defense. When I looked over it again I realized this after Darox brought it up again and I reread the event. So basically I retracted that statement due to an error on my part.

Also,

Unvote, Vote:Xdaamno

He hastily jumped on the Artem wagon with no analysis or evidence of his own(For the hammer vote nonetheless). He's contributed nothing to the active scumhunting and given no case for any of his votes. Just shown little activity, but is still obviously here.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

EBWOP

Ok I understand your view now, but I think we're having a difference in defining "speaking up" on BSG's part. I consider BSG's speaking up when she specifically says in post 51 that she has nothing to worry about directly after my post

50

where I utter basically the same words. When I "jumped" on you about BSG all I recalled from the incidence that I was the first to say she had nothing to worry about. In reality, she had already proven herself under the pressure before I issued the defense. When I looked over it again I realized this after Darox brought it up again and I reread the event. So basically I retracted that statement due to an error on my part.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

@Lynx

The quick hammer by Xdaamno was extremely Scummy. FOS:Xdaamno Definitely want some answers on this vote. However, I am keeping in mind the fact that Xdaamno hasn't really been involved in the game. I think carelessness could be the major cause of his vote. He hasn't seemed to pay much attention to the game. Certainly doesn't excuse a vote of such magnitude though.

Also, Unvote, Vote:Xdaamno
He hastily jumped on the Artem wagon with no analysis or evidence of his own(For the hammer vote nonetheless). He's contributed nothing to the active scumhunting and given no case for any of his votes. Just shown little activity, but is still obviously here.

The first quote can be found in post 126. The second in post 171. Can you explain why the sudden switch?

Because since my comments in post 126, Xdaamno has continued to offer little in the way of scumhunting. His vote on charter seemed to be reaching. His only reason for the vote was because Charter's "interrogating" questions try to come off as town. Which I think is not sufficient for a vote, but Xdaamno wanted to appear as offering something to the town. So after my first commetn on him, he's done relatively little to redeeem himself.

It's not even his hammer that makes him look suspicious to me. It's the fact that he's done very little for a large part of this game. The hammer only made me look into more closely. He's pciked up his posts a little more in content this page. However, he's still scummy with the way he's thrown his votes with little to back it up with.

Xdaamno, care to give a little more insight as to why you view charter as most scummy?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Incorrect wording on my part. I'll give you that. How about why do you think he's

scummy enough

to place your vote on him?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I do imply such a declaration at this stage of the game. For me, pressure votes are utilized more effectively earlier in the game. And to point out it's use for pressure basically nullifies its use for said pressure. Basing votes purely off vibes is pretty impractical.

Also, didn't you say that while he was pressing you his questions came off scummy. Does that not make him somewhat scummy to you? You're practically taking away any Value from your vote at this point.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

The Value capitalization was a typo really. In regards to that sentence, I feel your later explanation of the vote has taken away a large part of the usefullness of it in the first place(largely the pressure business which was taken away by admitting that fact.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

lynx,- I really don’t like your posts at all nor do I like your reaction to Darox’s claim, I also don’t like your disagreement with xdaamo, pressure votes are good anytime of the game not solely at the beginning.

So I am going to conclude this with

vote lynx

So you don't like the fact that I'm naturally skeptical to a claim that makes you a weapon to any night actions? Especially when it spawns from the player's first post in the game? I believe others shared a similar reaction.

You don't like my disagreement with a scummy Xdaamno who hasn't defended himself too well to the reason he placed any of his votes. If you're referring specifically to the pressure vote aspect, then that has no correlation on my town alignment. My views about how to utilize a pressure vote are mafia and simply a null tell.

Waiting to hear Xdaamno's response tomorrow. But I've already stated my feelings on him. Nothing's changed even with his reponses to my questions so far. We'll see what he has to say tommorow.

Ruck, weall have those moments where we feel we're not playing great, but you're really doing fine. You've been trying to play to your best and that's all everybody can ask for(Incredibly cliche) Anyway you're new don't worry about it keep playing and you'll improve. We need all the active posters we can get.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

The quick hammer by Xdaamno was extremely Scummy.

FOS:Xdaamno

Definitely want some answers on this vote. However, I am keeping in mind the fact that Xdaamno hasn't really been involved in the game. I think carelessness could be the major cause of his vote. He hasn't seemed to pay much attention to the game. Certainly doesn't excuse a vote of such magnitude though.

Sure, he calls him "extremely scummy" but also gives him several outs with the remarks about carelessness and really looks like lynx is keeping with his tradition of sticking a foot in both camps.
He further pushes the confused angle in his next post as well with this.

You haven't been paying to much attention to this game have you?

Really, I would say the first person to apply pressure to Xdaamno is charter for this post.

120- SCUM, explain Xdaamo

And he continues it as well as in his follow up posts, from #152 onwards.
It's only after this that Lynx finally picks a side and goes on to vote Xdaamno in #171.

Speaking of my good friend Lynx, lets take a look at his replies to what I said in the previous episode of 'Darox goes to town'.

his one was a fault on my part all led by the second reponse on the issue "denouncing" the first. In the second comment I adressed the whole BSG thing because I felt people were giving her too much credit as a townie because of her reaction to the wagon.I misplaced the fact that her emotions had already been displayed before I gave the earlier defense. Upon reread, I saw that her status as a rational townie under the wagon had been established already before my statement. Therefore I corrected my stance in the second comment. The second response comes from wrongly placed chronology of what happened earlier. Once I looked over it again, the proper order of the events were more clear.

The problem here is you're acting like a pendulum. You keep swinging from one extreme to another, while on average you're sitting squarely in the middle.

In the time between your initial defence and subsequent denouncement, one person (Artifex) stated that based on BSG's post which followed yours that she appeared to be a calm townie. Another (Lowell) came to the same conclusion, based on posts prior to your defence.
I'm sceptical about how much rereading you did, because this hardly shows that BSG's status as a rational townie had been established, much less that it had been established before your defence. The thing is, despite the fact your second comment disowning your defence completely ignored BSG's prior statements and the way it handwaved away anything that may have made BSG look town, it did have one correct point in that by defending her you did meddle in the way she reacted.

Which is why I was so incredulous when you suddenly turned around and disowned the entire comment and even disputed the reasons you had for issuing the comment in the first place. If as you claim you had read up on the events, what prompted you to take this stance? It really looks like you're just switching your position back and forth until you find something you hope I'll find acceptable.


Onwards.

I would only put someone at L-2 for the pressure aspect. And yes if Panzer had not said what he said it would not have been WIFOM whatsoever. The only scummy aspect of the vote was the WIFOM which I've stated numerous times already. The vote itself wasn't nearly as bad as the WIFOM that got mixed with it.

This is quite worrying. If Panzer had not said what he said the WIFOM would still be very real. It would have made it less confrontational, but in no way does it transform it from WIFOM-free to WIFOM-tastic.

Can you please explain to me in your own words why you think Panzer's comments make charters vote suspicious, in more detail than "It adds WIFOM", if you would be so kind.

Moving along, this set of posts really struck me as odd.

Incorrect wording on my part. I'll give you that. How about why do you think he's

scummy enough

to place your vote on him?

Asking Xdaamno for reasons behind his vote, fair enough, but...

I do imply such a declaration at this stage of the game.

For me, pressure votes are utilized more effectively earlier in the game. And to point out it's use for pressure basically nullifies its use for said pressure.

Basing votes purely off vibes is pretty impractical.

Also, didn't you say that while he was pressing you his questions came off scummy. Does that not make him somewhat scummy to you?

You're practically taking away any Value from your vote at this point.

The Value capitalization was a typo really. In regards to that sentence,

I feel your later explanation of the vote has taken away a large part of the usefullness of it in the first place

(largely the pressure business which was taken away by admitting that fact.

This really screamed out at me. First you ask him why he voted, and when he responds 50% pressure 50% vibes, you attack him for explaining that his vote was partly for pressure, on the basis that explaining a pressure vote kills it's value. Yes, it does, but

you asked him to explain it

. Come on, really?

Rolling on.
@Everyone who finds both Xdaamno & artem suspicious and also thinks that Xdaamno's vote was a failed hammer not a misjudged pressure vote: How does that work exactly?quote]

Here we go again from Darox. Regarding my first post about Xdaamno, it was all pertinent to his hammer. His carelessness still holds true to me about the deciding vote. I don't think he would have put that hammer vote down on purpose. But I've already stated it's not his hammer that was scummy to me. For me, his pattern of voting and play bothered me. After I posted the intial carelessness, Xdaamno's play continued to be scummy with his vote on Charter. With no reasons to support his vote yet again I finally decided to place my vote on him for his PLAY not his hammer vote which I still believe is carelessness .

Again, back to the BSG situation, I've already explained this as much as my head can handle. In your first post, you say that BSG

did

speak up before my defense. Now, you're saying her status hadn't already been established before my defense. Turnaround yourself anybody? You're basing your reactions off what the town has to say about BSG rather than what BSG said herself. She doesn't have to blatantly say that the wagon on her is BS. But by scumhunting(pressing Artem) instead of addressing the wagon, she's shown that she was calm under the wagon before I issued the defense.

The Panzer Charter WIFOM business has been stated by me already why I believe it's WIFOM. Here goes again though, Panzer says in his post that putting someone at L-2 is scummy. In the post immediately following, Charter puts BSG at L-2. The fact is that by challenging Panzer's statement he's also bringing WIFOM into play. It brings up questions about charter such as a scum be so bold as to blatantly disregard what Panzer say and do it anyway? Or is he scum who thinks that the town thinks that no scum would be so obvious ? This is WIFOM to me at least. Others have agreed.

Finally, about the Xdaamno Charter vote(the reason I finally decided to vote him in the first place), I didn't like the vote of course so I ask him to explain his reasons. Of course he throws out the pressure card(Artem anybody?) and vibes(another vague explanation). I'll give you that I did ask him so the nullifies my thinking about the whole pressure aspect though. However, throughout the entire exchange I don't believe his reasons justified in any way removing my vote from him.

Now, Darox, what do you think of the whole Xdaamno hammer incident? You seem to chime in only every couple pages with one big post rather than adresss the events as they occur. Do you have any other suspects beside myself that you're looking at?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

EBWOP if the quotes don't come up again for Darox all of my thoughts are after the rolling on sentiment by Darox at the bottom

[quote="Darox"]

Lynx The Antithesis wrote:
The quick hammer by Xdaamno was extremely Scummy. FOS:Xdaamno Definitely want some answers on this vote. However, I am keeping in mind the fact that Xdaamno hasn't really been involved in the game. I think carelessness could be the major cause of his vote. He hasn't seemed to pay much attention to the game. Certainly doesn't excuse a vote of such magnitude though.
Sure, he calls him "extremely scummy" but also gives him several outs with the remarks about carelessness and really looks like lynx is keeping with his tradition of sticking a foot in both camps.
He further pushes the confused angle in his next post as well with this.
Lynx The Antithesis wrote:
You haven't been paying to much attention to this game have you?

Really, I would say the first person to apply pressure to Xdaamno is charter for this post.
charter wrote:
120- SCUM, explain Xdaamo
And he continues it as well as in his follow up posts, from #152 onwards.
It's only after this that Lynx finally picks a side and goes on to vote Xdaamno in #171.

Speaking of my good friend Lynx, lets take a look at his replies to what I said in the previous episode of 'Darox goes to town'.

Lynx The Antithesis wrote:
his one was a fault on my part all led by the second reponse on the issue "denouncing" the first. In the second comment I adressed the whole BSG thing because I felt people were giving her too much credit as a townie because of her reaction to the wagon.I misplaced the fact that her emotions had already been displayed before I gave the earlier defense. Upon reread, I saw that her status as a rational townie under the wagon had been established already before my statement. Therefore I corrected my stance in the second comment. The second response comes from wrongly placed chronology of what happened earlier. Once I looked over it again, the proper order of the events were more clear.
The problem here is you're acting like a pendulum. You keep swinging from one extreme to another, while on average you're sitting squarely in the middle.

In the time between your initial defence and subsequent denouncement, one person (Artifex) stated that based on BSG's post which followed yours that she appeared to be a calm townie. Another (Lowell) came to the same conclusion, based on posts prior to your defence.
I'm sceptical about how much rereading you did, because this hardly shows that BSG's status as a rational townie had been established, much less that it had been established before your defence. The thing is, despite the fact your second comment disowning your defence completely ignored BSG's prior statements and the way it handwaved away anything that may have made BSG look town, it did have one correct point in that by defending her you did meddle in the way she reacted.

Which is why I was so incredulous when you suddenly turned around and disowned the entire comment and even disputed the reasons you had for issuing the comment in the first place. If as you claim you had read up on the events, what prompted you to take this stance? It really looks like you're just switching your position back and forth until you find something you hope I'll find acceptable.


Onwards.
Lynx The Antithesis wrote:
I would only put someone at L-2 for the pressure aspect. And yes if Panzer had not said what he said it would not have been WIFOM whatsoever. The only scummy aspect of the vote was the WIFOM which I've stated numerous times already. The vote itself wasn't nearly as bad as the WIFOM that got mixed with it.
This is quite worrying. If Panzer had not said what he said the WIFOM would still be very real. It would have made it less confrontational, but in no way does it transform it from WIFOM-free to WIFOM-tastic.

Can you please explain to me in your own words why you think Panzer's comments make charters vote suspicious, in more detail than "It adds WIFOM", if you would be so kind.

Moving along, this set of posts really struck me as odd.
Lynx The Antithesis wrote:
Incorrect wording on my part. I'll give you that. How about why do you think he's scummy enough to place your vote on him?

Asking Xdaamno for reasons behind his vote, fair enough, but...
Lynx The Antithesis wrote:
I do imply such a declaration at this stage of the game. For me, pressure votes are utilized more effectively earlier in the game. And to point out it's use for pressure basically nullifies its use for said pressure. Basing votes purely off vibes is pretty impractical.

Also, didn't you say that while he was pressing you his questions came off scummy. Does that not make him somewhat scummy to you? You're practically taking away any Value from your vote at this point.
Lynx The Antithesis wrote:
The Value capitalization was a typo really. In regards to that sentence, I feel your later explanation of the vote has taken away a large part of the usefullness of it in the first place(largely the pressure business which was taken away by admitting that fact.
This really screamed out at me. First you ask him why he voted, and when he responds 50% pressure 50% vibes, you attack him for explaining that his vote was partly for pressure, on the basis that explaining a pressure vote kills it's value. Yes, it does, but you asked him to explain it. Come on, really?

Rolling on.
@Everyone who finds both Xdaamno & artem suspicious and also thinks that Xdaamno's vote was a failed hammer not a misjudged pressure vote: How does that work exactly?[quote]

Here we go again from Darox. Regarding my first post about Xdaamno, it was all pertinent to his hammer. His carelessness still holds true to me about the deciding vote. I don't think he would have put that hammer vote down on purpose. But I've already stated it's not his hammer that was scummy to me. For me, his pattern of voting and play bothered me. After I posted the intial carelessness, Xdaamno's play continued to be scummy with his vote on Charter. With no reasons to support his vote yet again I finally decided to place my vote on him for his PLAY not his hammer vote which I still believe is carelessness .

Again, back to the BSG situation, I've already explained this as much as my head can handle. In your first post, you say that BSG did speak up before my defense. Now, you're saying her status hadn't already been established before my defense. Turnaround yourself anybody? You're basing your reactions off what the town has to say about BSG rather than what BSG said herself. She doesn't have to blatantly say that the wagon on her is BS. But by scumhunting(pressing Artem) instead of addressing the wagon, she's shown that she was calm under the wagon before I issued the defense.

The Panzer Charter WIFOM business has been stated by me already why I believe it's WIFOM. Here goes again though, Panzer says in his post that putting someone at L-2 is scummy. In the post immediately following, Charter puts BSG at L-2. The fact is that by challenging Panzer's statement he's also bringing WIFOM into play. It brings up questions about charter such as a scum be so bold as to blatantly disregard what Panzer say and do it anyway? Or is he scum who thinks that the town thinks that no scum would be so obvious ? This is WIFOM to me at least. Others have agreed.

Finally, about the Xdaamno Charter vote(the reason I finally decided to vote him in the first place), I didn't like the vote of course so I ask him to explain his reasons. Of course he throws out the pressure card(Artem anybody?) and vibes(another vague explanation). I'll give you that I did ask him so the nullifies my thinking about the whole pressure aspect though. However, throughout the entire exchange I don't believe his reasons justified in any way removing my vote from him.

Now, Darox, what do you think of the whole Xdaamno hammer incident? You seem to chime in only every couple pages with one big post rather than adresss the events as they occur. Do you have any other suspects beside myself that you're looking at?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

[OOG]Lynx, in your second post you sounded like you didnt know what it was gonna look like- if you hit preview before send you can see what your posts will look like. In this case, you're missing a "/" to end the quote by Darox. Honestly though I dont even know if you need to repost his stuff at all, since you seem to be responding to the post as a whole and not specific parts.[/OOG]

You're right. I used the preview button, I just can't get the quotes together unless I quote the whole thing usually. So I just try to avoid any quoting for the most part. My fault

[Lynx The Antithesis]

CBA. I place my own happiness above winning. I believe several people have 'forgotten' similar promises.

Yes, I noted that, but you're sitting at L-1, so we may never hear your analysis.

In case it's not clear, I'm calling bull on the "it was just a pressure vote" argument.

You haven't given motivation, you haven't explained the sudden release of pressure, and you haven't analyzed the results (like you promised you would).

Thank you, you've seen the light.

With a deadline approaching we should really up the discussion for these next few days. But right now, it looks like Xdaamno's gonna be the lynch for the day 1.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Also, right before i start my reread i would like to ask a few questions to stir up some trouble. lol.
Lynx the Antithesis can you explain why you are voting Xdaamno.

The way he hopped on the Artem wagon, his vote on Charter, his lack of reasons each time he voted, his lack of any scum hunting, lack of real participation until he started getting under suspicion, and his cop out reasons for the votes when he was pressed about them(Pressure and vibes).

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Xdaamno, are you gonna just not do your promised player analysis now that a convenient new wagon has formed that could save you today?

I see Charter's point that Panzer has latched on to many of the arguments of the day. I still think Xdaamno's the better lynch at the moment. He's jumped on another wagon(Panzer's now). Seems all his play is driven by a strong desire for self preservation. Not townie behavior to me.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Xdaamno, are you gonna just not do your promised player analysis now that a convenient new wagon has formed that could save you today?

First and foremost, stop weasel-wording. It's anti-town and makes you look scummy to anyone paying attention.

Secondly, I will probably not do a pbpa and hammer myself until I believe I will be lynched anyway. I thought I had made this clear. If I'm doing another chunk of work any time soon, it will be looking at Panzer.

How is it weasel wording? There's still a very good chance you will be lynched as the deadline is drawing near and you are still the lead vote getter I believe. So your player analysis would still be beneficial to the town. I think you just don't want to hold any strong convictions against any players if you live to day 2. Something you've done the entire game.

You already jumped on the Panzer wagon. Don't you think you should have looked at him more closely before you hopped on anyway? Opportunistic scum ready to jump on anybody to save himself before even looking at the player. Scummy? Yes.

@Lynx and tubby, what are your opinions on Panzer? I'd say both of you look suspicious for your posts there. If anything, you should be suspicious of me for clearly trying to get someone else besides Xdaamo lynched right before deadline. You continue to view his actions as scummy, but it doesn't make sense that you're not getting worked up over my recent actions. If you actually think Xdaamo is scum, then you surely must think I am as well because I'm clearly trying to lynch someone besides him today.

Also, Lynx, I feel like a bunch of the reasons you give in 336 apply to Panzer as well (along with other reasons).

Now I think this is scummy because now it seems you're really trying to divert attention away from Xdaamno with a post like this. I've seen that you've expressed a persistent suspicion of Panzer for a large part of the game. So the switch to Panzer wasn't to suprising considering that he's been quiet recently(due to being busy). I just assumed you wanted to act on your suspicion to hear from Panzer before the day ended. So it wasn't really shocking or suspicious to me.

But the fact that you're trying to draw myself and Tubby into a case on yourself makes you suspicious. That seems like you're really trying to divert attention away from Xdaamno now. So this post was suspicious not the switch.

FOS: Charter

Panzer basically went inactive after page nine. But things like Charter/Artem scumbuddies seemed like a big reach especially so early in day 1. He backed down from alot of his suspicions very easily. Besides that nothing jumped else stood out for me.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Forgive me for not knowing the wikipedia definition of "weasel words." But it seems you love to nitpick the phrasing of my sentiments rather than the actual content. You did this a little while back with the terminology. It doesn't help your defense.

You should have done the player analysis along with your Panzer argument when you applied the vote to Panzer. You had plenty of time when you were being wagoned to bring up a case on somebody else or any suspicions you had. Instead you waited for the "convenient"(weasel word forgive me) time to vote Panzer when there was more support from the town. You haven't built a case on anyone save Charter with no real backing for that vote even. I already gave my thoughts on that a little while back. Your play just does not read town to me at all.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Yes I know you asked the question. I simply felt my response was sufficient. If you want me to directly say that your play was not optimal then here: Your play was not optimal. Voting someone else simply because you don't know their alignment in order to save yourself is scummy to me. I've felt that you've waited for a case to be built on another player so you could get anything to get attention away from yourself. You haven't been scum hunting yourself which bothers me and is not the best or optimal play for the town.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

This is why voting Panzer is an optimal play from myself, a town player's, perspective:

- I felt the situation was either 'Panzer or me', and I still do to an extent.
- The chance of myself being scum is zero.
- The chance of Panzer being scum is greater than zero.

Therefore, I had a greater chance of catching scum by lynching Panzer rather than lynching myself. You said "Don't you think you should have looked at him more closely before you hopped on anyway?", impling my play was not optimal at the time. Can you explain what is wrong with my logic? If so, I will admit I made a mistake.

The fact that you felt it was only you and Panzer after somebody made a case for you. We still have time. No one else came off scummy to you earlier or before? You saw obviously that Panzer's wagon grew rather quickly. You could have easily presented a candidate who you felt was scummy and a better candidate for a lynch rather than yourself. Instead you hopped on the wagon before even looking closely at Panzer. The fact that you know your own alignment and thus know that Panzer has a greater chance of being scum than yourself doesn't excuse the fact that you could've still done some scumhunting on your own rather than rely on Charter's and Artem's. I think it would have been better to wait and see if close to deadline it came down to just the two of you. Then maybe lay your vote of desperation because that's exactly what it comes off as.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

This is not the time for pressure voting, as we are approaching a deadline. This is my last post until Artem unvotes.

This is not townie behavior. Why be so stubborn when you can help out the town if you really are being mislynched? If you're gonna give us anything do it soon or you will be lynched by deadline or another player. This refusual only reassures you as scum for me. It's not the end of the game if you die so stop playing like it.

I'd be willing to jump ship from xda to artem if others are.

Why do you want to shift a major wagon so close to deadline? It's very scummy that you need the rest of the town's approval before doing so as well. And the fact that you give no reasons doesn't help your case either.

FOS:Lowell

On a side note, I admit I am seriously wrong about a pressure vote being nullified after being pointed out. This event especially proved it to me. I do believe in some cases though that it holds true though.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I intended to take a chance to convince Artem to unvote. I am trying to play the game optimally up until the point where it starts to not become fun. That is something which I will absolutely never sacrifice.

Also, are you

seriously

trying to say that because townies can still win if they die, there is no reason to stay alive?

But it's not fun when people deliver ultimatums saying that they won't post until somebody unvotes if you want to to talk about playing the game for enjoyment.

I wasn't saying that townies should try to stay alive. But they should accept the fact that they could be lynched and aid the town with the time they have left. Even from a townie's death the rest of the town gains info. So they should strive to give any possible information to the rest of the town in that time instead of trying to desperately stay alive. In your case, I'd be trying to persuade the rest of the town why Panzer is the better lynch candidate for today. Now it's definitely come down to just the two of you so now's the time to present your Panzer case.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I think it's Panzer and dan. I don't think Xdaamo is scum anymore. I got all excited about his mishammer and got carried away.

I add dan to my list because of his earlier ties to Panzer and his most recent post, saying he finds Xdaamo more town and Panzer more scum but doesn't change his vote.

This to me reeks of scum trying to renounce the wagon he was part of creating. Sounds very scummy to take back all your suspicion of Xdaamno just as he's on the brink of being lynched right before deadline. First you move to Panzer, then later completely remove all suspicion you have of Xdaamno. Trying to wipe your hands perfectly clean of his lynch?

Major FOS:Charter

If it wasn't deadline I might consider more strongly changing my vote to you.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Oh and by the way I probably will be done for the rest of the night. I might be able to check the thread, but I probably won't be in the right state of mind to post sufficiently(college sorry kiddies). I probably won't be up until after the deadline which is tomorrow I believe. But if I wake up I'll try to get a post in or something. Otherwise, I'm still happy with Xdaamno lynch. God's speed everyone.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Ok deadline extended is definitely a good thing.

Right now I think we definitely need Panzer and Xdaamno to present why the other is the better lynch candidate for the day. You can give us any sort of analysis or reads on some of the other players to utilize on Day 2 in case you flip town.

Panzer, if there was more time today I'd probably consider your proposal more strongly. Now though, I think it's most likely going to stay between you and Xdaamno.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Confirm Vote:Xdaamno

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I don't mind the fact that Charter has called Artem town, paired Dan and Panzer, and any other calls he has made. That could just be a ballsy town attitude that Charter has. I actually even agree with Artem as town now.

What I do mind is that Charter helped create the Xdaamno wagon who he was so sure was scum, then he shifted the wagon to Panzer rather abruptly, and finally he completely changed his mind about Xdaamno right before he was about to be deadline lynched. This move only makes me think he was trying to extricate from being a member of a townie mislynch.

Vote:Charter

I have a few other questions. Lowell, why were you trying to gain support for an Artem lynch right before deadline?

Master Ruck why no vote at a deadline? Not trying to get too much attention perhaps?

Artifex, is Darox still the most suspicious to you?

Darox, am I still most suspicious to you?

The rest of you no questions come to mind right now.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I think it's Panzer and dan. I don't think Xdaamo is scum anymore. I got all excited about his mishammer and got carried away.

Right here

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Also, simultaneous post with Charter. I missed the damn claim. Which I could actually buy into. I wish I saw that before I posted. I'm still wary of that entire Xdaamno incident though. Vote stands for now.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Again with the simulpost. Anyhow, it's not the fact that you changed your mind about Xdaamno.Thats fine. It's the timing of it. You changed your stance pretty close to the deadline. Which makes me believe that you were trying cut all ties to the Xdaamno wagon just as he was about to be lynched. It was pretty cemented already that he was gonna be lynched and you'd know he would flip town.

I would bring up the fact that you tried to draw me and Tubby into an argument when Xdaamno was being pushed. But since he flipped town nullifies this aspect of my suspicion of you. Right now i soley have the point I've already stated. Right now it's the biggest lead I have so I just went after it.

As for the claim goes like I said I could buy into it. Like I said earlier I already believe Artem to be town. Hider is just another role I've never seen in Mafia. It's certainly believable. Curious why you'd claim now though? To clear Artem? Wouldn't it have been more beneficial to unveil this if he was about to be lynched or after day 2 with another townie?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Oh and by the way, buying into your claim to me means that I could believe it, not that I already believe it's true. I think it's a fairly easy scum claim because scum know who is town already. So saying who you hid behind is fairly easy because you're already directing the nightkill.

I'm naturally skeptical of most claims really.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Ah I was very wrong in regards to my points against Charter. They are basically garbage after looking back over the Panzer shift. I have to learn not to go simply by memory and actually reread. I kept thinking it was Charter that started the wagon, when it really was Artem. Charter even stated in several of his posts that he wanted Panzer lynched, but also accepted a Xdaamno lynch as well. Thus not truly attempting to shed his part or approval in an Xdaamno wagon.

Unvote

I thought your Dan/Panzer scum idea was formed by Dan's expressed suspicion of Panzer, but how he remained on the Xdaamno wagon?

And the hider ability is pretty dangerous because if you hide behind either scum or a targeted individual you die. So that means there's around a thirty percent chance you will die tonight(pending around two scum and one target) So depending on your claim being true, if you die we'd be dealt a serious blow tonight. Say we mislynched and you were caught by scum, We'd lose three townies. Are you required to use your night action?

Artem I don't know if you wouldn't make it to day 3. If your claim is correct and you're just a vanilla townie then I see no reason for scum to go after you. If Charter's claim is also true I see no reason that the scum wouldn't go after another townie because they could hit a powerole plus Charter if they guess correctly. So Charter can basically clear townies and still remain invulnerable to night kill.

Of course all this is hypothetical, WIFOM, making my head spin, and most likely fruitless predicting any solid night actions.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

His stuff yesterday? Vague much? You've stated before that you held a minor suspicion of me. Now it's turned into enough for a vote?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Charter, Seriously man. You are waaay to narrow minded.

Unvote: Vote:Lynx

For most of his stuff yesterday.

The case against you is one of two in this game. The other is on Lynx. I don't put much stock in the Lynx one so you're left.

And how have you gone to assuming I'm town and that Artem is town? Know that both of us actually aren't your scumbuddy? It just seems so hard to believe that you (as town) voted one of your minor suspects yesterday, when me and Artem were scumbuddies, and even earlier today, I was "so scummy" and now you've flipped 180 and we are town. I can't believe that you've simply changed this drastically unless all of it has been a scum act to fit in the whole time.

In conclusion, this strengthens the idea that you are scum, and you should have more votes to reflect this.

Don't forget Artem's case on Lowell which we're still waiting Lowell to repond to. And don't fret about Panzer's lack of votes because I may be joining you if his case isn't reasonable enough and doesn't appear to be pulled out of his ass at the last minute.

Right now it feels like only half the town(at most)is actually participating.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Personally I don't see why Lowell, Lynx and I are the only cases that can be made. I can see a case being made for Master Ruck or Tubby. It is scummy for limiting the town's options to just 3 lynchs and

FoS:on anyone who has done so

No one said there's only three cases. We've only said that these are the three main cases being discussed. And if you can see a case on MR or Tubby, then point it out. It's scummy just to tunnel on when person when you clearly have some suspicions about others as well. Still waiting on your case on me by the way...

[Lynx The Antithesis]

On Lynx, How he continually changed his stance on the Charter wagon was incredibly scummy. All of his interactions with BSG, were also incredibly scummy because he was saying don't read BSG's reaction, I ruined it, when she spoke up before he did. Also as Darox mentioned, He has a tendency of fence sitting and trying not to offend anyone by averaging being in the middle.

Unvote, Vote: Lynx

Continually changed my stance on the Charter wagon? What are you even talking about? There was never even a Charter wagon. The most votes he's attained was like 2. I went after him on Day 2 because I felt he was my biggest lead from the switch to your wagon. But after his claim, I reviewed the whole scene and discovered it was much sooner than the deadline. So I revoke my case on Charter after the claim. Funny, you did the exact same thing going from the enitre Day 1 calling Artem and Charter scum buddies to confirmed townies. Hypocritical perhaps?

The entire BSG business has been gone over again again with Darox. All of which Darox has pointed before and something you stated that you agreed with. When pressed about latching on to multiple arguments presented by other players, you said that you held a minor suspicion of me. Now, on Day 2 when nothing new has developed on me, you have turned that minor suspicion enough to a vote. Seems to be a little bit of a reach. You've gone from a very minor agreement with Darox to a full on piggy back of Darox's argument. You're not helping the description of yourself latching on to everybody's arguments.

Now with the fence sitting business. While I was pushing Xdaamno trying to get him to help the town. You just sat quiet and enjoyed the ride of the wagon. So it looks like I'm putting myself in the attention of the town(Not worried about whether anyone agrees or not) while you were on the wagon as well doing little to help the town in the face if a dealine. So if I'm going at with Xdaamno, I'm obviously not trying to stay on everybody's good side. I could have easily sat quiet until deadline like some others on the wagon.

Also, the fact that you voted me yet again makes me believe your fabricating this argument as you go along rather than call upon found suspicions.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Ow.

I believe Charters claim.

Yeah.

Nothings really changed my previously stated opinion on this game.

Then how about actively scumhunting? You seem to have played with a constant style of popping in every couple of pages to say something, then leave again. If you still have suspicions on me, then why not push harder for my lynch? Am I the only one you find suspicious?

Don't like the last request from Master Ruck to Charter. Don't know whether to chalk it up to bad play or just being scummy.

Tubby and Artifex apparently have been V/LA so they'll have to time to catch up.

Dan who have you been looking at on Day 2?

Mod

, any reason that Lowell wasn't prodded as well?

He posted saturday my time and with weekends counting as one day, has untill wednesday before classes my time to post (~8 hours)

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Lynx, When my major suspicions are ever dead or semi-cleared wouldn't my minor suspicions become my major suspicions?

The only way for something to become more suspicious to me is when more evidence builds up, not when another case hits a dead end.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

The

only

way? That's being a bit narrow minded. If I have in my mind people who I think are scum, and scum #1 and #2 are lynched/confirmed town, then that makes #3 my new top suspect. I'm seeing that as the situation right now so while it wouldn't hurt to have some more evidence, it's not fair to say that should be the

only

reason why we can suspect you.

I'm thinking major suspect as extremely suspicious, and not the current suspect who you find most suspicion. If you have a minor suspicion of somebody say for a backpeddle or a slip up. Then your main suspects are cleared. Does that mean that your minor suspicions have evolved into major suspicions simply because another suspect has been freed up? I'll agree with you that

only

was a very strong, poorly chosen word choice though.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I think that there's a very good chance that at least one of our scum is riding my wagon at the moment. Each person that's jumped on has simply agreed with the person before them when they hopped on.

I think Darox should be looked into. He's come every couple of pages or so and just repeated his suspicions on me. He hasn't really expressed opinions or thoughts on any other players besides me. Tunneling like this isn't helpful to the town. He hasn't even really pushed for my lynch hard. He's only really just layed his vote on me and then just gone quiet. The only time he's really looked at somebody else was Panzer and that was simply for the deadline.

Everyone's just given him a free pass with his claim. It's basically granted him amnesty until end game. Artem brings up a valid point about these investigation-immune claims .

Vote:Darox

I don't think Lowell's scum. Just a lurker really.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Lynx, basically every reason you gave is not really true. He's given suspicions and opinions on others. He made a case against you yesterday.

I'm actually inclined to believe he's a PGO. I'm a Hider which is a very uncommon role and PGO is a fairly uncommon role. I wouldn't be suprised to see others.

I figured you'd be the first to speak out in his defense. The only reason you'd be more inclined to believe him is if your claim is really true. His vote has been on me for the entire game basically. He has pointed out things about others, but I feel like he's kept his suspicios very narrow. I know he made a case against me yesterday considering that all of you on my wagon have jumped on based on it. He doesn't seem like an active townie to me. When you just answer your prod to just say you have nothing new to say is scummy to me. It just looks to me that he's lurking.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

And the hider ability is pretty dangerous because if you hide behind either scum or a targeted individual you die. So that means there's around a thirty percent chance you will die tonight(pending around two scum and one target) So depending on your claim being true, if you die we'd be dealt a serious blow tonight. Say we mislynched and you were caught by scum, We'd lose three townies. Are you required to use your night action?

Why are you suggesting that the hider should not try to clear townies?
Why are you suggesting the hider should not try to avoid the night kill?
What makes you think there are two scum?


If I wasn't voting you already this would be enough for me to vote you now.

I suggested he does not use his night action because if his claim really is true, then we could be dealt a huge blow if he gets caught by the scum. We'd be down two more townies the next day. I don't even understand the wording of your second question. The two scum thing was simply speculation.

I think Darox should be looked into. He's come every couple of pages or so and just repeated his suspicions on me. He hasn't really expressed opinions or thoughts on any other players besides me. Tunneling like this isn't helpful to the town. He hasn't even really pushed for my lynch hard. He's only really just layed his vote on me and then just gone quiet. The only time he's really looked at somebody else was Panzer and that was simply for the deadline.

I'm sorry to inform you that saying "He hasn't expressed as many suspicions about other people" doesn't invalidate the suspicions levelled at you. And using buzzwords doesn't give you a get out of jail free card.

As for 'hasn't even really pushed hard', do you want me to go and quote the walls of texts? I'll even make them extra bold font so you can't miss them.

And of course, you're alternating between "He's tunnelling and only pushing me hard, ignoring everyone else" and "He's not really pushing anyone hard, he's just laying low"

I don't care about the suspicions aimed at me. The fact that you've been looking at me largely the entire game either makes you a narrow-minded townie or a scum really driven to lynch me. A real townie would looks at all of the other players because they can't trust anyone instead of soley focusing on one lead.

I do feel like you're laying low. Especially after your claim. I think you feel like you're untouchable because your claim prevents from any sort of harm from night action. So as long as you avoid being lynched you'd be cleared until end game. Precisiely why you come in every couple of pages with the same case, but not leading it so as to draw too much attention.

Everyone's just given him a free pass with his claim. It's basically granted him amnesty until end game. Artem brings up a valid point about these investigation-immune claims .

Vote:Darox

Speaking of these investigation immune claims Artem is talking about. It doesn't make much sense for charter. His ability clears townies. He's actively hurting the scum team every time he successfully hides behind a new person and confirms their innocence.
It's confusing, because Artem as town should know that charter as scum would be hurting his team by confirming Artem.

Why would you say that Charter is hurting his team as scum. By confirming Artem as townie he's trying to gain the trust of Artem and probably the rest of the town. If he was scum he'd know who was townie or not so he could easily pick anyone to say he hid behind. Considering that he's immune from night action as well no one can test him either. Another reason why it's an easy scum claim. Confirming Artem as town didn't hurt him either because Artem was already obv town at this point I believe.

I don't think Lowell's scum. Just a lurker really.

Really? That's interesting, because a little further on...

[Darox] doesn't seem like an active townie to me. When you just answer your prod to just say you have nothing new to say is scummy to me. It just looks to me that he's lurking.

What is the difference you perceive between me and Lowell that has caused such a drastic split in opinion?

Lynx, basically every reason you gave is not really true. He's given suspicions and opinions on others. He made a case against you yesterday.

I'm actually inclined to believe he's a PGO. I'm a Hider which is a very uncommon role and PGO is a fairly uncommon role. I wouldn't be suprised to see others.

I figured you'd be the first to speak out in his defense. The only reason you'd be more inclined to believe him is if your claim is really true. His vote has been on me for the entire game basically. He has pointed out things about others, but I feel like he's kept his suspicios very narrow. I know he made a case against me yesterday considering that all of you on my wagon have jumped on based on it.

Again, focusing on you doesn't discount what I've said. There is no minimum requirement saying that I must post suspicions of X number of people before any of my points become valid.

I never said it discounts what you say or makes any of your points less valid. But I don't think it's townie play to tunnel and not look over everybody. This wasn't a defense against your points against me. I already defended myself against those. This was why I think you're scummy.

My respones are in bold

[Lynx The Antithesis]

That makes him singleminded but not wrong. He's not singleling you out, for he had a vote on me late Day 1. Darox is a bit lurkerish but he has posted more content then 2-3 people in this thread, including you I believe.

I wouldn't bring up content when all your posts are basically two sentences. I mean your reasons for your vote on Charter was that he was a "Scummy McScumFace".

Oh and I forgot to say in my response to Darox. The difference between you and Lowell is that Lowell is basically non-existant. He hasn't really been playing the game at all. On the otherhand, you have been here and playing. You're actively lurking while Lowell is just really inactive.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Ok perhaps it was a little early to consider if Charter should not use his night action. However, I do agree with Artem that clearing towines basically hands them their death sentence. Usually a cop doesn't claim as to avoid a certain death by night kill. It simply narrows down his suspects of who to pursue the next day.I think Charter's claim was premature because if he hadn't claimed he could still clear townies and perhaps wasted a scum night kill while he was at it. If he didn't claim, the scum may have targeted him. But considering if his claim's true and he is hider, then the scum's kill would have been nullified because ALL night action fails against him.

Maybe it's my "fence sitting" nature and cautiousness that you've classified me as, but I just felt it a huge risk to the town to lose two townies through simple chance. But now we know towards end game if Charter's still alive he has to use his night action. Which means he will doom the town's chances as we proceed further along. His chance of choosing town goes down, chance of choosing scum goes up, and scum chance of picking him goes up. This is why I considered it so detrimental to the town.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Artem the difference between Lowell and Darox to me is that I think there is a reason behind Darox's lurky play. While Lowell I think is just plain inactive(And if scum want to use this style to secure a win, then fine it's just a game, but you're not playing it for the fun value of it). Darox I think is deliberately lurking soley because he believes his claim has secured him. The only thing for him to avoid is being killed is by lynch since his alleged role prevents any night action. Therefore, all he has to do is avoid drawing to much attention and cruise right along to end game. Hence, why I belive he hasn't been actively scum hunting and pursuing all leads.

Artifex, I don't think confirming the townies is the problem. The problem was about the claim. Which you're right there is no use to discuss because what's done is done.

Master Ruck, unless my feared, dire situation happens where Charter and another townie are both taken down in one, we will not know whether his claim is true or not. I think following the belief that the claim is true and Charter is "confirmed" town is dangerous. You have to take all these claims with a slice of skepticism. Right now I definitely believe his claim over Darox's though.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

It's not just him dying, but another townie as well. It doesn't hurt to take precaution. There is about a thirty percent chance that he will get caught. Which is a fairy big chance of death.I've already said that I said I might have said it a little early. You just keep trying to drill this same point home. Do you feel he should use it even when there's a fifty percent chance he'd die? I bet you would take such a gambit. Considering there's a chance you fake claimed on your first post of the game.

You've lurked once you felt your claim had granted you enough security to lay low, Since no one really challenged your claim other than a few FOS's and perhaps that one vote from Artifex, you knew you could play this way. It's been effective too because nobody really has gone after you in anyway.

Primary mover? Haha. Far from it. On Day 2 you layed your vote on me with my Charter vote. You were looking for any little thing to get your vote right back on me. After that you don't even come back until the prod adding completely nothing to your case(not pushing the wagon whatsoever). Panzer's the one who got the ball rolling. Tubby jumped on saying he agrees with "Panzer's" case, not Darox's. Then, Charter jumps on which just looks like a pressure vote. So in reality, your reasons were used by Panzer, but Panzer's the one who got the wagon going. You just sat back obviously by your lack of anything to say.

Lowell, if you're not gonna make a commitment to the game, then do us all a favor and replace out. If you really are gonna try and get back into it hurry it along already.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Are you joking me? I wasn't even suspicious of you. Thats Artem. I just said a very simple non-game related point. If you're not gonna play, then get a replacement. You said yourself you haven't been paying attention to the game and you don't have a strong foothold in it. Which isn't exactly helping your contribution statement.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Why do you keep bringing that same point up again again, Panzer? I don't understand where you're getting the "pissing contest" reasons from. He actually had a case on you.

Now Charter, how did it turn from I reacted alright to poorly now. What exactly was said that makes you think I reacted poorly to your obvious pressure vote or the wagon in general? And if you're that easily influenced by Panzer's lack of reasoning and thinking I feel somewhat bad for you.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

see i don't get it charter is lynx is scummy and panzer is scummy why not focus on lynx and then go after panzer tomorrow as his partner? I mean what your doing now looks awfully suspicious. It appears to be alot of misdirection and running a smoke screen to save lynx.

so either both panzer and lynx are scum,
or
lynx is scum panzer is innocent and you are tryin to save your buddy.


either way my vote will stay on lynx

This is terrible logic because it's very closed minded. Both scenarios you cast me as scum. There's no evidence or trace of me and Panzer being scum partners either. If I didn't have some lingering suspicion of Darox's claim and I didn't want to press him to talk more, I'd probably have my vote on Panzer as well. Why shouldn't Charter go after the one he feels is most scummy today though? Who are you gonna be looking at if you lynch and then I flip town?

And I'm getting more suspicious of you the more we go on Tubby. You've hopped on both the Xdaamno and my own wagon while doing little in the way of scum hunting.

Lowell's lack of addressing any of Artem's posts and handling of this game is very poor. I considered his inactivity a null tell, but now I'm getting more suspicious of him with his recent string of post proposing a prety absurd theory. I'm not sure if he's just not paying attention. Overall it's not townie behavior.

I'm still worried about Darox. Panzer's posts don't come off townish to me and I think Charter's case still holds merit.

Charter's last few posts come off much more townie to me. His dilemma of choice seems sincere to me and I'd place him as a townie now. I've believed for awhile now that Artem's town. Artifex is another I'd chalk up as town more as a feeling than anything. Master Ruck I'm a little more unsure of, but I'd probably put him towards town as well. Dan's a no read though right now.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Darox, I'm gonna pose the same question to you as I did Tubby. Who would you be looking at if I'm lynched and then I turn up town?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Lowell's getting worse with each post and this Panzer/Charter ongoing scuffle has piqued my curiosity. I definitely have a strong feeling that either Panzer or Charter is one of our scum. Either Charter faked claimed which I said earlier is possible due to hider not being a common role, an easy scum fake claim considering that they know everbody's alignment and can direct the night kill accordingly, the poor timing of the claim, and the night action immune possibility. Or Panzer is scum and considering my wagon had halted for the moment, he decided to reinstigate suspicion upon Charter because he can't be killed at night. I'm more inclined to believe Panzer is the scum out of the two. My Darox case is going no where,and Im torn between switching my vote to either Lowell or Panzer. I haven't liked many of Panzer's posts and his Charter vote reeks of OMGUS.

Unvote, Vote:Panzerjager

I think this is the right direction to go.

I'd really like to hear the opinions of Artifex, Master Ruck, Dan

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Panzer I think you're reacting terribly to any votes put on you. You try to play to people's emotions especially Charter. I've stated several times that I was suspicious of you during this day and the fact that this whole vote each other business erupted yet again solidified the my belief that either you or Charter was our scum. Since I find you much worse than Charter I'm putting my vote on you. And of course if you were scum you'd try to play off people's suspcions about the claim to remove such a power role. I find it very strange that you go from saying Charter is a confirmed townie to now he fake claimed. Seems like you're reaching against Charter now that the heats back on you from him. Of course you'd want to muddy his claim if you're scum and knew his claim was valid. Somewhat a rehash of what Master Ruck said but oh well.

I don't see how my points are worse than yours for jumping on me at all. You rode the Xdaamno wagon and went quiet towards deadline. You've gone back and forth with Charter, just dismissing the case as poor rather than actually addressing the case against you. I felt his case against you is still valid. You jumped on me with points brought up by other players that you never showed any trace of agreement with when they were actually brouight up. That coupled with your reaction to any votes placed on you make you scummy to me. I don't know why you say I see us being the only two lynches. Theres plenty of time left, you're just the scummiest right now.

Darox why are you so sure about Charter being town?

Artem you're the one who iniated the first suspcions on Panzer. Do you still hold any of those suspicions on him. Or are you so hell bent on lynching Lowell today?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Panzer your last few posts make you look even worse for me. As Ruck pointed out using your busy scedule as an excuse isn't acceptable. We all have outside lives, but we all made a commitment to this game. So that excuse won't fly.

After Panzer flips scum, MR has stocked up on town points, it's not too late to get yours too!

Dude, he is in the third spot. He's jumping on me while the wagon is hot and picking an easy target. His jump was incredibly scummy and if I'm scum I would hope you would look at that as him bussing me.

This is one of his scummiest posts I think in the game. Why does the spot matter when he's contributed against you? Why do you always say everyone's jumping on you? Why do you claim to be an easy target when you said the case against you was bull? How come the same doesn't apply to Tubby who applied the third vote to me while he added literally nothing to my wagon? The worst part about it all is the fact that you posed the hypothetical if "I'm scum." Following up on what Ruck said, are you actually trying to throw a bussing suspicion at him? Do you sincerely believe that anyone of us would buy that if you flipped scum?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I think I'd like to hear a claim. We didn't do that with Xdaamno and I feel that was a fairly big mistake for us.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Good catch I'm certainly not as a perceptive as you. Are you not for the claim though this time as well? And I realize my first sentence is sounds sarcastic, but its really not.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I'd still like to hear it personally so I guess the spotlight's on Panzer now.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I do agree that it'd be somewhat unbalanced to have a hider plus a tracker. Though I'm not sure how many power roles we'd normally have in a mini. If we assume that both Charter's and Panzer's claims are true, then you have to take into consideration the fact that Charter said ALL night actions against him fail. Meaning that Panzer's tracking wouldn't have gone through. Panzer, are you implying a mafia or town roleblocker? What caused you to switch your thinking from role blocker to a true claim back to role blocker?

I don't buy Panzer's claim really. Though I have been skeptical of every claim that has been given. I definitely don't think that all these claims are true. I believe at least one of you is lying. And right now Panzer's comes off as the most fabricated to me. Darox had no need to claim so I'm still debating myself whether not scum would risk such an exposure to attention. Charter's claim I believe the most out of the three with his breadcrumbs and more of a townie vibe has been emitted from him(very actively scumhunting). Right now my vote stays.

As for the wagon, I definitely agree with Artem that I don't like some of the comments about it. Namely the bandwaggoning from Lowell and Tubby. Tubby's been the worst I think with his. He jumped on my wagon and Panzer's with relatively nothing to add. Lowell hasn't been much better. He's proceeded in this game basically ignoring Artem's case on him. I've read a game with him recently. He played the same exact way(posting infrequently with very little contribution). I don't believe this excuse his behavior here. Though I do find Panzer scummier than both. This could largely be due to Panzer's larger contribution to the game, but I still find him to be the optimal lynch right now.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

what would you have me do lynx? everyone had already said all that needed to be said. so rather than parraot what everyone else had already siad i agreed and joined them.

The problem is that you've done it with Xdaamno, myself, and Panzer.

I don't think we need to end the day right now with 5 days left. We could use it to attain more info. On a side, I'll have limited access this weekend. I may be able to get a post in later tonight and tomorrow, but everything else is gonna be tough this weekend.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Lowell all your informative posts deal with you being the subject of derailment. You throw around derailment and maybe eventually it'll stick to one of your cases. You've lurked so why shouldn't you be pressed. Also, why shouldn't I "reference/chide/admonish/notice" your lurking when you have done it throughout thia entire game. Just because I point something out doesn't mean I have to lay my vote down. Maybe if I had two votes I'd thrown one on you too. But I see a more pressing matter to deal with Panzer. I've seen several suspicions in people and called out Tubby as well. Does that mean I should be voting him as well?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Charter isn't it a bad idea to tell who you're hiding behind tonight because in the chance that Panzer's town and you target Panzer, then you're both dead with a scum hit. Even if you think you'll aid the town if you tell us who you're targeting for the next day wouldn't it be best to leave your hiding in the dark? Even if you're nearly positive the person's scum. The thing is that if you hit scum and die, the scum are still gonna get their nightkill. So we'd have two dead townies and we wouldn't know if you hit scum. Haha if only you could tell us who you targeted in your Bah post... you can't do that right?

Panzer do you think that there's a possibility that all three of you are power roles? Do you think the negatives of each of your claimed roles would be enough to balance the town.

Darox, did Panzer's last few statements clear him for you. You said you wanted to hear from him before you layed your vote. Are you still wary of him? You question Ruck for derailment, but you can easily substitute your own vote for his own. If Panzer was lynched and turned up scum, then I'd be questionable of Ruck's possible derailment. I personally think Ruck's town at the moment. And who would you think would be more likely scum between Panzer and Lowell if you had to move your vote?

I feel like I've been the only one to look into Tubby. He's done pratically the same lurking/little content as Lowell with just more vote hopping. He's like a Lowell 2.0. No one has said anything about Tubby and I definitely feel he's flown under the radar for this game because of that fact. Panzer especially, Tubby opportunistically jumped on your wagon exactly like Lowell did. Are you not looking at him too? I think he should definitely be looked into on Day 3 as I don't think he'll be the lynch of this day.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Good call Artem. It's just if we're willing to take such a gamble. There's a much higher chance we'd lose charter now who has proven himself to be a very active scum hunter. I think most definitely they'd kill Charter and whoever he hides behind if the declared person is town. Say we mislynched and lose two townies. Then, we'd be going into Day 3 with three townies down and seven people left. That means say I'm guessing again 2 scum 5 townies. Though it could be 3 scum with the lack of any thrid party scum(SK). Anyway we'd have one confirmed townie in Artem since we'd know for sure Charter's claim was correct if he dies. That would increase our chances of hitting scum on day 3 but anymore mislynches and we'd be done.

Now we just have to figure out if this tradeoff is worth it to possibly catch scum. We'd have to definitely know who Charter was targeting and come to a group decision as to who to target and who to lynch in just three days. We also have to decide if the gambit is worth the worst case scenario of the Day three I proposed. I think there is a good chance we'll hit at least one scum with the investigation or the lynch. What does everybody else think is the best play? Mystery hide or declared hide?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Alas, of course you can't trust me since you still don't no my alignment. The active scum hunter is my take on a pro-town consistently participating player. And I think you meant three scum since there's no way there's less than two. Do what you will then.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Here are some more thoughts. Panzer is a good candidate for a lynch today, so say we go through with it. If Panzer flips scum, I say charter does a mystery hide. If Panzer flips town, I would say that suspicion against charter will rise quite a bit, since we don't know if he fake-claimed hider. To avoid the town having to consider the possibility of charter being scum during D3, I think the most pro-town thing for him to do would be to one-shot investigate somebody. That way we get both an alignment check on charter's target and charter himself.

So, what do you guys think? We pick player X as the "investigation" target, then lynch Panzer. If Panzer flips scum, charter does a mystery hide. If Panzer flips town, charter hides behind player X.

Lowell has my vote for being player X. Or Dan, really. Both have been suspicious lurkmonsters.

QFT great plan though it's up to Charter in the end . I think its a very good idea to declare the hide depending on how the Lynchee turns up. We get to test Charter's claim and another townie's alignment. Add Tubby to the "player X" list nominations and I think it's perfect.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Darox, did Panzer's last few statements clear him for you. You said you wanted to hear from him before you layed your vote. Are you still wary of him? You question Ruck for derailment, but you can easily substitute your own vote for his own. If Panzer was lynched and turned up scum, then I'd be questionable of Ruck's possible derailment. I personally think Ruck's town at the moment. And who would you think would be more likely scum between Panzer and Lowell if you had to move your vote?

You didn't answer my question Darox. Are you for or against the Panzer lynch?

Considering Darox for the investigation is definitely not worth the risk to me either.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Bah dammit all! It so obvious who killed me it was it was...(dead)

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Darox- Nice fake town claim though it threw me off a little with my suspects.

Tubby- Why did you kill me?! Was it something I did or said that offended you?! Seriously, though I don't think I was the best kill and I thought I was pretty clearly town with my being on top of Panzerscum. Whatever though no big deal except that I'll hold and intense grudge against you(Just kidding).

Charter- Simply brilliant play man. Honestly this is why I like mafia when you can control the game like this. You took the reins as town leader and you dominated it.

Llama- I thought you did a great modding job. Better than alot of mods I've seen.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Oh and kudos to Master Ruck and Artem. I think you had a good recovery after doubting your ability. Artem I liked your style as town and I think you played very well.