Mini 703 - A Roccisi Autumn - Over

[insanepenguin02]

Hello all! First thing of business:

UNVOTE

[insanepenguin02]

So who should I vote for?

[insanepenguin02]

@ insanepenguin02: Welcome to the game! Have you played mafia before? I posted some diagrams on page 16 that may help you read though the game. If you can spot any mistakes on those diagrams, I would appreciate it if you pointed those mistakes out. Please read the entire game carefully before you vote for anyone.

Thanks, Adel. Yes, I have played in two games thus far. I was just kidding and making myself known by asking that question.

[insanepenguin02]

Well, I love the spreadsheets on page 16! I think with enough reading, I am going to have to make my initial vote:

VOTE: darkdude

Why? Main reason is the suspicion and analysis done behind where darkdude stands. It seems to be pointing in the direction of scum. And knowing exactly where he stands could answer some further questions.

Any other questions for me?

[insanepenguin02]

But darkdude is still a far better lynch; the points against him have been discussed far more extensively and thus his alignment will shed more information, in addition to the fact that lynches started ca. 1 week before the deadline reveal far less information simply due to the fact that they aren't discussed as thoroughly, especially not with the posting frequency this game has.

Here was one example.

[insanepenguin02]

Ecto - you trying to say that i have been inactive?! I just signed up on this mini today.

[insanepenguin02]

Unvote

[insanepenguin02]

Whatever...

Vote: darkdude

[insanepenguin02]

Hey guys. I will be reading up and producing some analysis later today as I watch some fball. First thoughts though:

1) Reading today's posts on the Rage theory is very intriguing but I don't want to jump on anything until I make some of my own analysis.

2) I would agree with Admiral that the # of posts between tubby and dd were just because dd was in the public eye more. I mean he was who we lynched, so people were talking about him more.

3) I find it quite interesting how there was no kill tonight. My guess, from reading the storyline, would be a role blocker blocking the mafia chosen to make the kill. Didn't sound like a doctor protection.

More to come later.

[insanepenguin02]

3) I find it quite interesting how there was no kill tonight. My guess, from reading the storyline, would be a role blocker blocking the mafia chosen to make the kill. Didn't sound like a doctor protection.

Please expand upon this.
What about the storyline leads you to that conclusion?

"So, who's missing today?"
"I can't see Adel. Didn't she say she was going to die?"
"Yes, I remember that, too. Seems she was right. Let's see whether we find anything useful in her hou.."
The door slams open and much to the surprise of the others, Adel enters the room.
"Someday I'll remember to unlock the cellar if I want them to wake me in the morning.. I mean.. my alarm clock failed to go off."

I am trying to analyze and make sense of this part of the storyline. It would not suggest a doctor protecting anyone. It may lead towards a blocker that caused the mafia to become locked up, unable to make a kill. any other analysis of this?

[insanepenguin02]

Night 2 = Investigated insanepenguin02, received No Result

Insanepenguin02 came out of nowhere, not soon after taking his vote off of darkdude immediately after he claimed, and put his vote right back on only accompanied by a "Whatever...". How is my counter-claim of evidence more suspicious than the act of denying you your voice about darkdude's claim?

Here is my defense from you mentioning my name a couple times in a previous post:
I voted for darkdude at first because he seemed the most suspicious from the second that I started in on this game. Many people were developing a case against him and he wasn't defending himself that well, which made him suspicious. Then he all of a sudden claimed to be tracker, from what I am trying to remember. Immediately after, I unvoted because I didn't want to lynch him if he WAS pro-town.

I then returned to the game and saw that many people read through his lie, built more cases against him, only for him to not defend too well yet again. He was L-1 with everyone against him, so I decided to vote for him and brought the hammer down. Then look - HE WAS SCUM!

Now I understand that I looked suspicious there for just posting my vote and "Whatever...". I should have provided some more reasoning there but didn't. That is my bad. But how does it make me look suspicious after we found out that he was mafia??

Hopefully this post adds some clarification.

[insanepenguin02]

1) I think insanepenguin02 could be scum with anyone, but I haven't heard enough from him to think any which way

why do you think insanepenguin02 could be scum?

I would like to know as well. Thanks!

[insanepenguin02]

EBWOP: Sorry, that Quote inside is from Rage.

[insanepenguin02]

You know what? I'm not going to spend another 3 or 4 hours trying to come up with more of a defense. It's just better if I'm lynched. And, no, this isn't where anyone should take pity on me and take their vote off, this is me saying "just do it already".

I owe it to the game to be lynched, and I've played horribly.

Top Suspects:
- Adel
- Korts
- insanepenguin02
- ThAdmiral

What a cop-out. I have been following your case defending yourself and you have me thinking. I really just want to see more out of some other people before I cast a vote at all.

[insanepenguin02]

My top suspects:
1) Rage: Things just aren't looking up for you. People have built up cases against you and I am balancing between your defenses and their attacks.

2) Adel: I know that you are just very active but it almost seems as if you are bullying the rest of us around with your questions and views. You are really trying to build cases against many and it seems that you just want all suspicion off of you and onto others. I have a feeling, just a gut feeling, that you are in fact scum....

3) Tubby: In the following quote and "claim", I take it as you are trying to lead us heavily into thinking that you are powerless.

so i will consider this my one and only defense post and so that we can move on i fell the need to go ahead and claim, i know there is no real vote pressure but i am a townie plain and simple,, if you have read my meta you will note

when i have a role i am far more active and care a lil more about the game and try to have a bigger input

.

Since you had to bring this up, it makes me think that perhaps you are just trying to pull the wool over our eyes. This is not a WIFOM moment but again, just a gut feeling.

[insanepenguin02]

A red herring.

I was thinking the same thing actually after I re-read it. That was my only defense for it not being a doctor but rather a roleblocker. So now I really don't know...

[insanepenguin02]

Is that what your gut opinion was based upon, or do you have more to look at?

That was pretty much what I was based off of, just a pushy feeling as if he is trying to get more information than what he already knows.

[insanepenguin02]

I voted for darkdude at first because he seemed the most suspicious from the second that I started in on this game.

Was there any particular thing or two that he said to make you believe he was scum?

Sorry, I am not going to spend the time searching through each and every one of DD's posts but if I had to say, it was a general feeling. Based on what I read, when I read it, and what others were saying/interpreting, he was by far the best choice. And he ended up being a VERY good choice.

Many people were developing a case against him and he wasn't defending himself that well, which made him suspicious.

Is this why you found him suspicious from the beginning of the game?

From the time that I started, yes, this was part of the general feeling. Keep in mind that I am really only focusing on Day 2 and on as I was not here Day 1.

Then he all of a sudden claimed to be tracker, from what I am trying to remember. Immediately after, I unvoted because I didn't want to lynch him if he WAS pro-town.

He claimed

Watcher

. I claimed

Tracker

. A Watcher gets to see who targets a person each night, a Tracker gets to see who a person targets.

Yes, sorry. I remember that he claimed something that was pro-town. Me not wanting to kill a townie, I unvoted so as to get more information from him. If he WAS a townie, I definitely wanted him to get that info out there. But the claim went nowhere, and I revoted.

I then returned to the game and saw that many people read through his lie, built more cases against him, only for him to not defend too well yet again. He was L-1 with everyone against him, so I decided to vote for him and brought the hammer down.

So, you let others read through his lie and build cases against him, and then saw him not defend too well against them. You then decided to bring down the hammer on him.

Why wouldn't I let others build up cases (to save a LOT of time), put my analysis towards those cases and come to my own final decision? I guess that is how I play. Check out my other games if needed.

Then look - HE WAS SCUM!

How does this prove your innocence?

Because he was scum. What more do you want there?

Now I understand that I looked suspicious there for just posting my vote and "Whatever...". I should have provided some more reasoning there but didn't. That is my bad. But how does it make me look suspicious after we found out that he was mafia??

It makes you suspicious because you didn't provide anything to the case and he turned up scum. To me, it means you knew he was scum all along and took advantage of the opportunity to hammer him. The odds are against you being an investigative role, since Puta was our Cop and I know my own role, so I tracked you last night.

And so you investigate me and I guarantee you find nothing. Only to prove my innocence some more. Again though, I cast the final vote due to the lack of a case that he was town. And also again, I apologize for not providing more info at that time. For me, that was stupid.

My case against you is solely based on the fact that you provided nothing to the case you appeared eager to jump on and did so at interesting times. Most notably, as soon as darkdude presented his Watcher claim, you unvoted without mentioning what caused you to do so, and only now are coming up with reasons why you unvoted and voted for him again.

Giving the reasons now because I failed to do so at the time. Again, that is completely my mistake. Have I said this before?

You know what? I'm not going to spend another 3 or 4 hours trying to come up with more of a defense. It's just better if I'm lynched. And, no, this isn't where anyone should take pity on me and take their vote off, this is me saying "just do it already".

I owe it to the game to be lynched, and I've played horribly.

Top Suspects:
- Adel
- Korts
- insanepenguin02
- ThAdmiral

What a cop-out. I have been following your case defending yourself and you have me thinking. I really just want to see more out of some other people before I cast a vote at all.

1) What's a cop-out and how is what I've said one? You can't just say "this is this" and expect everyone to understand what you mean.

Cop out because that was a very childish thing to say. "I have played a horrible game so just lynch me"?! Whaaaaa....

2) Most of what you've been doing is seeing what other people think and voting/unvoting accordingly.

Again, why wouldn't I if I agree and come to my own final decision???

----

In conclusion, I am for an insanepenguin02 lynch and am very suspicious of Adel.

Vote: insanepenguin02

[/quote]

I agree with your suspicion of Adel but can't put my finger on it. However, you building up such a case on me is very interesting as it looks as if you are just trying to focus attention elsewhere since you have a few votes on you. For one, you say that you have investigated me and found no results, yet you still want to vote for me. Ok, that makes sense! (sarcasm) If you want to spend so much time on me, that is fine but to me, that almost proves scum as I know that I am nothing, as you probably do as well being scum yourself.

Keep hunting but you might want to focus elsewhere is all I'm saying.

[insanepenguin02]

And with all of that said, I am ready to vote.

Vote: Rage

Reasoning: You focusing so much on me even though you resulted nothing is enough for me to be suspicious of your actions. And the other votes on you seem to be justified in my eyes as there have been some cases brought against you that I could agree with.

[insanepenguin02]

Bah. I've drifted out of sync again. Will reread the last couple of pages, but these walls of text are stifling my brain...

Korts, I agree.

[insanepenguin02]

Adel, it is the same for me as well. I am drawing more and more blanks on this game than on my others. As of now, I am even dropping my case against Rage as it was mainly just to get more info on his case against me. I thought by retaliating that I could get more info from him but that failed.

I am just struggling to get much info here TBH.

[insanepenguin02]

Also,

Unvote: Rage

while I look everything over AGAIN and try to find some answers to who I think has been the most suspicious.

[insanepenguin02]

So you don't have a case against Rage, and never did?

Look at the end of my post 632 and then 633. I was trying to get a rise out of Rage and see why exactly he was voting for me and coming up with a "case" against me. All it ended up doing was getting Rage confused about what a cop out is (not that the cop should claim or anything - a COP OUT!), talking more about my reasoning behind the actions on darkdude, and really nothing that was worth my time to continue talking about. If that was all I was going to get out of the vote for him, I wasn't going to continue on it.

[insanepenguin02]

here is an interesting idea: can anyone name any reasons why afatchic and insanepenguin can't be scum with darkdude?

Posts 575 and 532 - the last two posts by afathchic. I have NOTHING on him and even had to doublecheck that there was somebody with that name in the game. So I don't have anymore to even say there.

And me with darkdude? Apart from me not being scum in the first place, why would I have voted for dd if I was aligned with him? Please explain before you start to sling "what-ifs".

[insanepenguin02]

but to be honest i am also intrigued by this a lil more,

here is an interesting idea: can anyone name any reasons why afatchic and insanepenguin can't be scum with darkdude?

And me with darkdude? Apart from me not being scum in the first place, why would I have voted for dd if I was aligned with him? Please explain before you start to sling "what-ifs".

in my read it looks alike like

separating yourself from dd,

In my experience here scum will often post cases and even bus their partners right through to lynch if need be to clear themselves

What? So now I can't defend myself from a case saying that I was linked to dd? Of course I am making sure that you guys know that I wasn't linked to dd. I cast the hammer vote on dd, which was a great decision because he was finally a mafia being lynched. I'm glad that you have seen this in other games but I'm also sure that you have seen my side here as well: Cast a hammer vote, get accused of being linked to that player, and try to defend against those accusations. Please tell me how that doesn't make sense.

[insanepenguin02]

Sorry, but i meant to post this sooner, but ill be V/La until monday. i should be able to finish catching up though by then, so expect content on monday. sorry about it taking so long, but it came the same time as our Christmas vacation, so i have had limited access to the site.

since this post he has made 21 (count them!) posts in other games, and spread out on each calender day

.[/quote

IMO this is VERY good information that makes me need some explanation from afatchic. If you are going to be gone for a time but can still post in other games throughout that time, it makes me think that you are just trying to lurk.

EXPLANATION PLEASE!

FOS: afatchic

[insanepenguin02]

@insanepenguin02: who did afatchic replace?

Three people as this character has now been played by four different people now, why?

[insanepenguin02]

"It sounds here that you claim".... wow...

It sounds to me like you are reaching VERRRYYY far. But go ahead and look at it. Of course its a possibility! So is it a possibility that you're scum with that person as well! I think that I will just start throwing out possibilities as well... hmm...

Should we look at the possibility of The Admiral and tubby being scum with dd?

Should we look at the possibility of Kison and Korts being scum with dd?

Should we look at the possibility of you and Ecto being scum with dd?

Or what other possibilities should we explore? I can list more if needed.

To be perfectly honest, more people better start interjecting because for some reason, Adel is really starting to annoy me.

[insanepenguin02]

OK, I am going to start all over here, re-read all of the pages, and come up with some more info on everyone. I feel that I am just digging and digging and digging a much deeper hole than I need to. Perhaps I am thick-headed but I am not scum. Time to regather and come back with a more leveled gameplan in order to help out the town. All I know is that I am positive that one of the people "prodding" me to answer questions and clarify are most likely scum. That means Adel, Rage, and Korts mainly should be kept in mind as possible scum IMO. However, like I said, give me a little more time and I will come back with some better info instead of continuously digging my own grave. lol.

For some reason, in my other games I am very well atuned to what is happening and who is who but here, I am having some difficulties.

[insanepenguin02]

So here I am fully ready to proceed with this game. Here are my thoughts after just spending hours reading through the pages of info before me. If there are any questions, please ask.

Ectomancer – Swaying Pro-town

: Has made so many pro-town comments, made decisions that have been extremely logical and leaning towards benefiting the town the most. Solid cases on people throughout the game with too many examples to include. Just in the first 12 pages of the game, he points out that dd was scum and asks numerous questions that lead towards more info coming out about policy, the game, and possible characters in this game. And he likes cats so he can’t be all that bad. lol

Tubby216 – SCUM

with 12 in the game its 7 to lynch and that puts puta puta at L-2 right now correct??
well i still don't like his play call me simple but i believe in answering the question you are asked and answering it plainly as possible, all the poetry and stuff was losing me so.

vote: puta puta

i believe thats L-1

so now we have thre cases in the works

rage's case on BoW

~ wich i happen to agree with

ecto's case on darkduse

~ seems like a valid one i just think BoW is scummier atm

kort's case on chuckrock

~ wich is gaining ground (ie becoming more solid with more faults in chuckrocks posts)
is that the jist of it or do i need to re-read some more??

I have not been

trying

to lurk, what i am trying to do is sit back a lil and take a better look at what is being posted and why. more to the point i am trying to play this game with more logic rather than emotion wich i have a tendency to do

unvote, vote:tubby

for:

• 1. lurking through the game without getting replaced
  3. following my vote onto IH
  4. only voting for a townie on day 1

And Tubby’s scummy responses:
[quote="tubby216"
1)sorry i am really trying here i i know i have neglected this game to say the least, i will do better

3) i felt i should vote him for pressure to resond since he has responded less than i have

[/quote]
And here, all I have to say is “WOW!!!” You seem so “surprised “ that dd was scum it is unbelievable:

wow color me clueless,, i seriously thought dd was town,, damn i suck at this game,
ok so i will re read and try to post more content , call it an early new years resolution if you will

And a point that I pointed out earlier on Tubby:

My top suspects:
3) Tubby: In the following quote and "claim", I take it as you are trying to lead us heavily into thinking that you are powerless.

so i will consider this my one and only defense post and so that we can move on i fell the need to go ahead and claim, i know there is no real vote pressure but i am a townie plain and simple,, if you have read my meta you will note

when i have a role i am far more active and care a lil more about the game and try to have a bigger input

.

Since you had to bring this up, it makes me think that perhaps you are just trying to pull the wool over our eyes. This is not a WIFOM moment but again, just a gut feeling.

Below, I find the underlined statement very interesting. Scum wouldn’t want attention, would they?

[
quite honestly i have never had anyone invest so much time into me or my playing style so i figured it was the best thing to do.

i really don't like all the attention

, but if you ant the town feel it neccassary then i will do my best to answer all the questions put before me.

Wow. So much against tubby it isn’t even funny. Here are some of my thoughts using the above evidence and further evidence throughout this game:
1) You only tend to post to say that you are rereading, will post soon, to defend yourself, and/or make nearly useless cases against others (mainly at opportunistic times – case in point, your “case” against me and your “developing cases” that never seem to surface). You voted for Kison on day 2 and not dd. Why?
2) You have been lurking since day one it seems. Sure work or life can get hectic but it has been throughout the entire game other than this past week when you were interrogated by Adel and Kison and tried forming cases against others to get attention off of you – because you state above that you don’t like attention on yourself.
3) I have to be honest here but you are only the second person that I have been researching (as you are second on this list) but I have to say that it would be hard to find somebody that fits more of the scum-type as you.

FOS:Tubby

and this could soon be a vote after I look up everyone else.

Kison (IH, gorkat) – No Read

First off, you definitely didn’t have much from your predecesors to get a read off of (not even many votes! Just inactivity for seemingly good reasons), so this is all coming from what you have posted yourself in the past 8 pages.
Now after looking over all of your posts, I can’t seem to get a read on you. You seem swaying townie because of your want to interrogate suspicious people such as Rage, Tubby, etc. and don’t settle for vague answers or none answers. Your drive makes me think pro-town. But it is just hard for me to feel confident in any read on you. And you seem to vote hop or follow wagons (i.e. tubby). Just provide more info and let me read you more! Lol. Hard case to crack…. More info will follow once I get more.

Korts – Balanced but swaying Scum

For Korts, I was getting almost the same read on him as I was on Ecto only it seems to get scummier and scummier as I read for some reason (can’t get many specifics here other than this first quote):

Yep, Adel, I'm active in other games. Thing is, I have a solid grasp on those while here I'll need to reread the last one or two pages to find something I can pursue. I cannot promise anything right now, but believe me when I say I'm on it.

For one, you have been in this game from the first day so should have no reason not to follow the game play. But it seems that as time as gone by, you have been separating yourself more and more from the game, not being as analytical as you were before, etc. This makes me wonder why. I guess that I shouldn’t say that I think it is scummy it is just interesting. Interesting because with less analysis and activity, you start to lose that pro-town feel that you are looking out for the best of the town. I wish I could get more here but I’m having trouble reading into you much more than that…

IP, why did you consider the implied connection between you and darkdude something which you had to reply to, other than acknowledging the theory?

I felt that I needed to reply so as to give more explanation for my final vote on dd. Of course, I could acknowledge that this theory could be a possibility but I hate acknowledging possibilities. Everything is a possibility, that is why we play out the game. But I see that by casting the hammer vote with little explanation was scummy and I agree with that. I would have made the same read. Hopefully this answers the question, Korts. Please let me know if there is anything more for me to answer concerning this.

Afatchic (sweenytodd, lionheart, tarballs) - ????

Ugh…Honestly, I am tired of searching through all of the pages trying to find these four players. I have found afatchic’s three posts but there is absolutely no content in any of them. As for the previous three players, I am having trouble finding lionheart and sweeny but tarballs had some posts early on. Post 74 was interesting IMO. Mainly due to his reasoning behind Rage which didn’t have much logic compared to other cases I have seen and his always wanting a vote on somebody. However, I feel most of the information from this character right now would be based off of one person’s flawed skills, which isn’t too fair.

I want to wait until a replacement that is active can post something for this character before making and more analyses towards this character.

Adel (Brain of Wombat) – Swaying Pro-Town

For Adel, I have made some comments towards him recently but feel as if he is looking for the best for the town actually, after reading through all of the posts. With his questions, reasoning skills, interrogations of suspects, spreadsheet information (and the time required to fulfill these tasks), etc. I feel that he is showing himself as a townie who is, in a way, leading the charge against the mafia scum left in the game.

HOWEVER, I do question why it seems that you vote hop. There was a post that was started that was showing the bandwagon participants and you were on nearly every bandwagon. Mainly you start as the first or second vote and then if a wagon forms, you hop ship and start in on another case. I am not necessarily seeing this as scummy but I just want to know the reasons behind this please.

Also, why are you voting afatchic? I see this as a wasted vote until someone new is inserted or at least until this person actually posts content.

Rage – Balanced – No sway

Aggressive, outspoken, and active. These traits could go either way. You form cases, defend yourself and others if cases are brought up, make accusations, and don’t take much $hit! Lol. I honestly don’t know exactly what to think of you. Earlier, I voted for you and as I stated, it was mainly just to see how you would take it. Now, bear in mind that this decision was made before I had read much from this specific game so I didn’t know what to expect. But you made a case on me so I decided to just test the waters. Without much of a case, that was my mistake.

You have been very active and involved in the game but I think that you are one that will almost always have votes on you due to your playstyle but will not have a good read until late in the game, IMO. So I will be waiting to gather more evidence on you until later as it is warranted.

TheAdmiral – Swaying Pro-Scum

I think I'm going to

vote: kison

Joined the rage wagon late for reasons that had already been brought up, and then continued to follow adel by voting tubby for a reason that was not even explained completely (just the cryptic "thou art made of sketch").

Good observation. However:

Wouldn't it be awesome if ThAdmiral voiced a strong opinion on other people's alignment once in a while?

YES! I have to say that you have been full of empty promises throughout the duration of the game. You have made some quality comments and analyses but it seems to be more likely to get nothing from you, as in the “case” against Korts. Could you make a good, quality post showing where you think people stand? Why didn’t you vote for dd on day 2 but voted for puta on day 1 (wanting to keep scum but vote off town)? I need more info here. Thanks!




SOOO I apologize for the length but here are most of my thoughts on the game thus far. Now I will go one step futher after looking at everyone and

Vote: Tubby

[insanepenguin02]

Sorry if I wasn't supposed to bold more than my vote in there. My vote is at the bottom and is really the only bold thing that is official.

[insanepenguin02]

That leaves tubby at lynch-1 by my count.

The next vote on tubby will hammer, I think.

that would be correct

[insanepenguin02]

Thank you Adel.

[insanepenguin02]

But what do you have to say about what I stated in my post about tubby?

[insanepenguin02]

@ Ecto - Sorry that in my three hours of reading every post and page here that I didn't catch every single thing that you pointed out. Perhaps I didn't focus on what you wanted me to focus on but that was my overall assessment as I saw it.
As for my play, I have been in two previous games that I have been killed in and am currently in three games. That is my only experience. So pretty much as noob as they come.
Also I don't want to disregard what I have said before but I need to restate a comment: I went into this game without reading hardly anything that happened beforehand. Then went about giving uneducated opinions on matters without evidence and got caught up in needing to defend those, which didn't work at all. That led me to my analysis post so that I felt more comfortable with things that have happened in this game. It is A LOT of information that I am sure I missed a lot of even after reading it all. So if you want to say that I am (or have been) flustered, fishing, hopping, etc. that is fine. But hear what I have just said - much of that was uneducated actions that I was making.

And to be perfectly honest, my case on Tubby is all from me. I don't care who else is voting for him, I found my own evidence and reasoning to vote for him as I stated in my post.

If my making my own claims off of evidence that I have gathered and then making accusations is me throwing out suspicion on other plays to avoid looking bad myself, then I'm guilty. But I don't see it that way. Why can't I come up with my own thoughts and make my own accusations off of my own analysis? Things may get dirty, that's what it is all about.

And lastly, ecto, I now have heard of "bussing". Of course a mafia player could throw another mafia player under the bus and I'm sure it happens all the time. But I guess that until I experience it, I don't see the full benefit of doing that. Now to call dd my "scum buddy", only time will tell. Perhaps my play is not very typical as I am just learning but you will be taking that comment back when you find out the truth after either I am killed or the game ends.

Ecto, hopefully I answered all of your questions and commented on all of your claims/analyses. If I didn't please let me know.

@ Rage - I'm not going to spend the time looking for that post (s) myself. Where was that at? Then I will get back to you.

[insanepenguin02]

unvote

for unstated reasons.

Suspicious IMO

[insanepenguin02]

...Speaking of which, insanepenguin, you've still yet to answer my question about this. Why did you vote for Rage, who sealed darkdude's fate, if you also were under the belief that voting darkdude was a means of clearing someone?

Oh sorry, Kison. From what I remember, I sealed dd's fate actually. Maybe I'm thickheaded but I don't fully understand your question. I explained why I voted for Rage before.

[insanepenguin02]

By the way, at the bottom of each page in a thread, above the New Topic and Post Reply buttons, there's this little bar that says:

"Display posts from previous: 'All Posts' by 'All users' 'Oldest/Newest First' GO"

You can view what only one player has written in a thread that way, and it's a much easier way of finding a specific post. You can also go to the end of any page's URL and type in the post that you're looking for after the 'start=' part.

THANK YOU!!!! This will prove extremely helpful!

[insanepenguin02]

And last thing for tonight:

1) Ecto - I will get to your questions over the weekend when I have more time.

2) Rage - I will get to your claim over the weekend as well.

3) Everyone - Thanks for the advice, info, questions, etc. as I am seeing that I have a lot of work in fully understanding and becoming better at this game.

[insanepenguin02]

I am referring to this, in case you don't recall:

And me with darkdude? Apart from me not being scum in the first place, why would I have voted for dd if I was aligned with him? Please explain before you start to sling "what-ifs".

You voted for Rage earlier. Why would Rage have contradicted darkdude's claim and voted for him if he was aligned with him? Is it your belief that you 'cannot' be scum with darkdude simply because you voted for him?

Thanks, Kison.

1) Is Rage is mafia, then he could have been throwing us off, throwing a scum buddy under the bus, and voted for dd despite dd's false claim. If Rage is town, he read through dd's claim, went with his case against dd, and stuck to his read, casting the vote for dd.

2) As I answered before, the topic of bussing has been clarified for me. Of course a mafia member could and probably does vote for another mafia member at times. Therefore, it is NOT my belief that you cannot be scum buddies and vote for each other.

[insanepenguin02]

And me with darkdude? Apart from me not being scum in the first place, why would I have voted for dd if I was aligned with him? Please explain before you start to sling "what-ifs".

So you are saying there is no way that you could have been aligned with DD because you voted for him, yet you just voted Rage, who pretty much counterclaimed and forced the DD lynch? please explain.

Haven't I answered this already?

It's almost sounding here that you are fishing, IMO. Since I have answered both of these questions before, I will not spend time re-answering here.

[insanepenguin02]

Adel- BoW may have been the scummiest play i have ever read through. he def. ranks up in the top 3 or 5. and reading through i was astounded he wasn't lynched a few pages into day 1. however if you look at it assuming he is town, i believe there is a very logical explanation, which i expect to hear from Adel later in the game. If i don't hear the explanation i am waiting for, i may be inclined to vote him based on how badly BoW played, but right now i think he is a townie.

This paragraph seems particularly wishy-washy,

even for you, afatchic. You first state that Adel's predecessor is definitely scummy, then you assume he's town, then you demand an explanation from Adel; and finally you conclude that right now she's probably a townie. I sense a connection; such uncertainty makes me think of a partnership where you can't decide whether to bus, distance or defend.

QFT

[insanepenguin02]

I should be able to post more here tonight. Just sooooo much info to look through.

[insanepenguin02]

Sorry, I'm here - just need to reread as the site being down threw me for a big loop.

[insanepenguin02]

Sorry, I'm here - just need to reread as the site being down threw me for a big loop.

[insanepenguin02]

afatchic - I would say that that is a fair post on my actions thus far in the game. However, I did offer my explanations of the brought up actions - hammer on dd, vote on rage, etc.

In the case of dd though, I must have COMPLETELY missed that he claimed scum because the last thing that I saw him post was that he claimed a townie role. That claim was followed up by an unvote by me, additional analysis against dd by everyone, and then the hammer by me. That vote was made following my reading of all of the analysis against dd, which I seemed to agree with.

Now after I have played more games, I really do see how many of you would not have understood my logic about voting dd and me saying that it should somewhat show that I wasn't aligned with him. I have posted about this earlier as well but thought that I would state it again here. I just think that it would be a pretty gutsy move if a mafia were to hammer one of their own. But that doesn't mean that that person is town or mafia really.

And as for me, I am still looking at tubby being scum above anyone else right now. The same reasons as before.

[insanepenguin02]

vote: insanepenguin02

the way you vote without reasoning is quite interesting. Setting up traps, continuing wagons, I don't know the reason behind this one, as I'm sure nobody else does either.

[insanepenguin02]

Just an idea, but since right now it seems that tubby will be lynched, can everyone give their second suspect if:
a)Tubby is scum
b)Tubby is not scum

a) 1-Rage, 2-afatchic (in order)

b) 1-Adel, 2-Rage

[insanepenguin02]

Hold off on lynching Tubby just yet.

Why?

[insanepenguin02]

So one more vote and you lynch me. And all I have to say right now is GO TOWN as I am a Vanilla townie. I don't have the slightest idea who the scum is but I know it is not me. But lynching me could provide some more feedback as to who the scum really is. I would have to say that a couple people that have voted for me would probably be scum but it is hard to tell who.

Anything you guys want from me before I get a hammer?

[insanepenguin02]

If I were a vig with a gun or somebody that can kill at night though (other than mafia), I would have to go with tubby. Cause since I'm not mafia and plenty of you have said it is either tubby or myself, I guess you will be targeting tubby after all. I would say it would be a good bet.

[insanepenguin02]

Well, I'm glad that you can speak up at a perfect time to show how you have suspected me all along, Rage. Your timing with your further analysis is questionable. But again, as I stated, speaking from a townie's point of view, I see tubby as the most scummy player in the game - which I have been suggesting for a while now.

I would rather get some info from afatchic and Admiral since they will be likely choosing what wagon to jump on: tubby or mine.

[insanepenguin02]

this is getting interesting

[insanepenguin02]

You should vote, afatchic.

I will go with ip before the dealine. Something about the way he did the whole "oh well looks like I'm going to be lynched, I'm town though" thing right after he got put to -1 when things were still in the balance makes me think it might have been a scum ploy to scare away any more votes.

LOL. I guess time will tell. But if that is what you want to think, that is fine with me. In my eyes, I did perhaps a "Looks like I'm going to be lynched, is there any more information that you guys want/need from me? And by the way, here is where I would look if I were you guys if you wanted to actually hit on mafia." That might be more accurate. As far as I can tell, I haven't given up at all.

[insanepenguin02]

And IMO, afatchic is actually looking more and more scum with every hour that passes with no vote - looks as if he is trying to stay away from making a decision that will greatly impact the game and likely cause him to be criticized for being a late/hammer vote.

But I suppose that it could also be scummy of those that want him to vote already - Admiral - since they would be perhaps antsy to get rid of a townie.

[insanepenguin02]

And last thing for tonight, afatchic, I would just vote for whomever you feel is the most scummy, IMO. That would save you from looking as scummy as you could better defend your vote. Then whoever it is that switches, depending on how they do it I guess, will have a lot of explaining to do. SO INTERESTING!!

[insanepenguin02]

@Adel- can you explain your actions to end the day yesterday? you hammered Tubby, then proceeded to ask ThAd to vote so you could hammer. but thAd said he would be voting IP, so did you intend to hammer IP if your tubby vote wasn't the hammer? Also why did you jump wagons so quickly, as you had been on the IP wagon, then voted me, then hammered Tubby when i voted him.

I knew my tubby vote was the hammer. Look at the "stop hammertime" graphic I posted with it.
I jumped wagons to manipulate you and thadmiral into to strongly aligning yourselves with one of the wagons, and to make sure that I was the person left with the ability to choose between tubby and IP.

When I saw that you didn't notice that I had hammered, I played along with your ignorance in an attempt to get more information out of you.

Ouch! But I don't know if I believe that you would be leading him on to make it beneficial for the town. I see it as you trying to make somebody mix up their words and give you a reason to build a case on them.

[insanepenguin02]

Im a bit confused as to why Rage would have been killed there...

And I would have to say that it is quite obvious:
1) Nice "claimed" power role that could be gone and
2) You'll notice that all 5 people that voted out tubby are still in the game, therefore I suppose we would all be somewhat suspicious about each other. That also left Rage, Admiral, and Ecto as the only three left - not much choice there.

[insanepenguin02]

And you were also on a few lists as well.

I just think that it has something to do with everyone that voted tubby still being here. I may be wrong though.

[insanepenguin02]

Adel, I completely agree but it still makes me weary to mass claim due to their still being some power roles out there that could end up in danger. However, I am not weary of role-claiming myself and I'm sure that I will hear that this is the perfect claim for me and that it is "par for the course" but I am:

100% Vanilla Townie.

[insanepenguin02]

@IP: where have you played mafia, besides this site?

There is a MMORPG called Goal Line Blitz and there are a group of people on there that MOD and play in our own games.

[insanepenguin02]

I think Kison is about as cleared as Ecto.

Mechanically I would have to disagree.

I don't know whether to be pissed at IP or happy that I found scum. He was so damn quick on that mass claim idea.

Sorry, sorry, sorry. I just thought that by being vanilla, I had nothing to hide as all I can do are the basics. I didn't do much thinking now that I look back at it....

[insanepenguin02]

I think Kison is about as cleared as Ecto.

Mechanically I would have to disagree.

I don't know whether to be pissed at IP or happy that I found scum. He was so damn quick on that mass claim idea.

Sorry, sorry, sorry. I just thought that by being vanilla, I had nothing to hide as all I can do are the basics. I didn't do much thinking now that I look back at it....

Now that you've thought about it, explain why it is a bad idea for vanilla to claim offhand, even though all they can do is the basics.

Because now, mafia knows that I am just a vanilla, which leads the power town roles to be on the others. The mafia knows right now who is scum and who is town. So now on their list of town, they have put me down as vanilla. With whatever theoretical town power roles out there, they have a better chance at killing one of them off at night. I actually feel safer MYSELF right now because of this, knowing that if the mafia kills me, they won't be gaining that much (the least they can possibly do) but as for the safety of the TOWN, the scum has a better chance at killing a power role now.

so that is why I think it is a bad idea for vanilla to claim right now. And hence my apologies.

[insanepenguin02]

Wait ip claimed yesterday. Why all the hate when he claimed today?

I know. But I think most of it comes from Adel, pointing out the claim and then Ecto wanting to know why I feel that it is a bad thing for the town. All in all, I find Adel more scummy for pointing it out today and Ecto even less scummy for wanting to know my thoughts on why I feel it is not beneficial for me to have claimed.

[insanepenguin02]

@IP have you finished any games on this site yet?

One is completely done: Mini 716 El Puma:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10040

I was Vanilla Townie and it all came down to a 2:1:1 and we voted no lynch on the last day hoping for a cross kill, which didn't happen and the Mafia won.

Another one I was killed in night 1 by mafia but it is still going on: Newbie 694:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 06#1326506

I was again Vanilla townie.

[insanepenguin02]

Wait ip claimed yesterday. Why all the hate when he claimed today?

I forgot that he claimed yesterday.

ditto

Me as well...

Honestly, no offense IP, but i don't think he would have been able to try and pull of the buss on Tubby, which makes me think that after he actually put up some of his own case against him that it may not be him. Like i said yesterday, i only thought one of the two would be scum. I'm going to have to go back and reread, but i would be willing to bet the last scum is in one of those who pushed the IP wagon when the Tubby one started slowing down.

Just so that I understand, who are meaning by "he"?

[insanepenguin02]

@IP have you finished any games on this site yet?

One is completely done: Mini 716 El Puma:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10040

When did people claim in that game? Did anyone claim vanilla townie early?

Day 3 was when people started claiming. I came up with a case against who I thought was mafia and wanted to deflect the suspicion off of me and help explain a night one triple kill. I explained that we obviously had the mafia kill and a kill from me, as a one shot vig. Then the third had to be a serial killer. After I claimed, there were more claims:
The mafia claimed vanilla town, the serial killer claimed townie, and the other townie (watcher) claimed that he was watcher. So us remaining townies, who were both at some point a power role, were honest while the two threats both claimed vanilla.

[insanepenguin02]

And I would imagine that we only have one more mafia member left as we have killed off two already. With seven of us left, and no suspicious mulitple night kills, I would say that that leaves us with 6 townies and 1 mafia. A mass claim wouldn't be a horrible idea, I don't think but it would be better to do tomorrow as town could narrow it down a little bit more without losing another power role tonight, hopefully.

[insanepenguin02]

By "this" do you mean the Mini 716 or this game we are all in right now?

[insanepenguin02]

Well, it actually hit me first in the 716 game I guess. Vanilla is the easiest claim for anybody so anybody can claim it, especially scum so that they don't make a mistake by claiming a power role that can be counter claimed. It can also be a nice claim for a power role townie so that they don't reveal their power. Really, I have a lot of trouble believing anybody's claims of roles.

Anyways, is this conversation helping in this game?

[insanepenguin02]

ok, so when you made this post

I think Kison is about as cleared as Ecto.

Mechanically I would have to disagree.

I don't know whether to be pissed at IP or happy that I found scum. He was so damn quick on that mass claim idea.

Sorry, sorry, sorry. I just thought that by being vanilla, I had nothing to hide as all I can do are the basics. I didn't do much thinking now that I look back at it....

1. did you remember that you had previously claimed vanilla townie?
2. had you forgotten that you learned in mini 716 that early vanilla townie claims are bad?

1) Yes
2) But I felt that I had nothing to hide back when I initially claimed. The reaction again to my claim was because I had been debating that decision. I think that it is bad as well but again, I felt like I didn't have anything to hide.

[insanepenguin02]

I don't see what I can or should say at this point. I still think Adel is scum; her questioning of IP seemed to me like scum angling for a slip.

I got the same feel from the questioning.

[insanepenguin02]

Sorry, but what is the goal of the discussions going on lately? I feel that much more time is being spent talking about other games than this game.

[insanepenguin02]

Korts, you make some good points there on afatchic. I have been thinking that afatchic has been pretty scummy throughout but couldn't find any evidence. The way that afatchic had dealt with the tubby/my wagons though does show that afatchic wanted to distance away from tubby and push my lynch. With tubby being scum, I think that it is a fair assumption that afatchic is as well. Therefore:

Vote: Afatchic

[insanepenguin02]

Yes, sorry. I have been INCREDIBLY busy lately but I am really trying hard to keep up with the games I am in.

I claim no gun.

[insanepenguin02]

I agree that a mass claim probably wouldnt be the best thing right now. But everyone knows my claim.

[insanepenguin02]

Well, Adel, if you want to lynch me, I can't necessarily stop you but I do have to say that you would be killing a townie. Then your actions will have to be questioned very heavily. My vote stands on afatchic.

[insanepenguin02]

just to be clear, when I claimed "no gun" I meant that I do not have one now, and I never did have one.

Is the same true for everyone else?

And yes here - no gun at any point in time

[insanepenguin02]

So in order to get the game moving, Adel, Korts, and ThAdmiral are wanting to vote out a townie. Interesting. The votes on me are looking quite scummy, especially if you are doing it "just to move the game along".