Micro Normal 1092 [Game Over]

[Skellen]

The last will be bitten by the dogs!

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

I think you are the only one I know here. A warm hello to everyone else as well though. gl hf

[Skellen]

I think the table on page 1 is kind of whack, however the way how deadass he has been about it is something I gutlean town on.

THS unvote is ???. Not for the unvote, more for the reasoning. Where is that coming from?

[Skellen]

Especially because bugspray was already voting RN before THS. Although I think both forgot or weren't aware of it. So not so sure bugspray's vote was that opportunistic.

[Skellen]

You all are looking at this at the wrong angle. I was scraping at something to help us get out of RVS because everything posted before the table told us absolutely nothing.

I saw someone else voted RN before me, but I didn't realize it was the same person voting twice. That's why I was like "RN is already at E-2, I'd better unvote to make sure we don't end this prematurely."

Figured that you counted both bugspray votes, my question was more concerning what made you think RN could have gotten voted out already at page 2 at alleged E-2? Felt iffy with bugspray's vote or something else?

It's just a bit odd that you said like three times on this page how you have to scrape something to get out of RVS when you did the instant backwards roll, even doubling down with 27 which kind of weakened your attempt immediately.

[Skellen]

Nuke has more posts here than Oassis, Skellen, Bugspray, and KittyTacky have combined. So does Flavor Leaf. Would like to hear more thoughts from those four.

I wouldn't normally think anything of this, but in combination with earlier posts like 27, 45, 47, would maybe count 25 too but it does actually make sense in context with the game in 49, I'm starting to think you're trying too hard to look helpful and pro-town.

Yeah. Is basically what is bothering me there as well. THS comes off like a mediator, not necessarily scummy, but it gives such a weird vibe. A little bit conflict-averse.

[Skellen]

Tbh I was kind of hoping to get some stronger impressions from the whole FL-Gandhi conversation than I actually did.

At least I think the way FL was triggered by Gandhi's initial post and dug further into it feels organic/genuine. Probably coming more from town here.

[Skellen]

Gandhi, why did you put both bugspray and THS as potential partners together in 66? By your post it felt more like you suspected bugspray with him mimicking THS? How are you reading both individually?

Also why exactly felt FL's post about RN like pocketing to you? There were a few people townreading RN for similar things and FL's post didn't really stand out imo.

[Skellen]

Atm I am town on RN, ND and FL with no particular order. I only take people with two letters shortcuts.

Almost had Kitty too, don't feel commiting to it yet by intuition though.

[Skellen]

Almost had Kitty too, don't feel commiting to it yet by intuition though.

Actually scratch this, I changed my mind completely after rereading. I may as well just say what is bothering me here.

VOTE: KittyTacky

If I go by the content of his posts I kind of want to townread him, but his check-in today really felt like scum shortly dropping by. Adding nothing new, seeking no interaction, just repeating the old read and postioning for one of the obvious vote choices.

Also not too much a fan of 32. Again not really disagreeing with it. Not sure how to phrase it in English, it just felt

too much

for me. More a gut thing, it adds up though.

[Skellen]

Like half the playerlist isn't even voting. And I thought I am conservative with my votes. Let's just start blasting like in the finale of a Tarantino movie.

[Skellen]

I had nothing to say about the argument except that I think it's likely TvS with Gandhi S. Not much else of note happened that caught my attention.

In general I only comment when I have something new to say. I am a very reactive player and generally seek interaction when people interact with me.

So are you townreading FL or are you just PoEing here with scum!Gandhi? What gives you bad vibes abut Gandhi and why do you think it seems more to come from scum and not possibly a TvT like THS is considering?

While we are at it, what do you think of THS?

[Skellen]

More townpoints for the way Skellen questions her scumread here.

While I appreciate it, how is that towny though?

[Skellen]

bugspray:

Back to Null. Also, I hadn't realized you double-voted.

this is something you have previously acknowledged iirc

Is that read of RN on you the only thing you have something to say about?

[Skellen]

I think FL is more likely town because it doesn't have SvS vibes, but FL is good at scum so it's not a strong read. As for what gives me bad vibes, it's just... it felt very forced to me. That's about it. D1 I mostly rely on my gut.

Null on THS.

Hmm. I don''t like the clause about FL. Overall I can get what you mean though. What felt forced from Gandhi?

Also didn't you want to vote yesterday? You forgot it.

[Skellen]

Since 2/3 of my townreads have Kitty as town and considering how the game is rn I don't expect there much to happen. So...

VOTE: Nuclear Gandhi

[Skellen]

Dawn's case was basically "hmm, doing TOO MANY town things here"

Like God, I'm scum read for knowing what I need to do to win the game.

I think it was more that you look like doing too many town things instead of actually doing. Which has been my issue with you as well to an extent.

Like when you thought that Gandhi-FL might have been TvT you concluded scum might been among those who have not been around (you mentioned some names you wanted to hear from). Yet you never really followed up on that. Like as example, I think you had me within your names there and I just dropped a naked vote on a wagon on someone you considered town and you didn't really seem to care. Next time you were around you clashed with FL over a imo harmless comment, where I am still processing how it became such an argument.

Can you tell me where you have your head now in this matter? Or did you dismiss your original thought because of FL?

[Skellen]

Kitty: 191 I didn’t get forced vibes from Nuke. Not much to say about this slot but I’d look carefully at them if Nuke / Enchant flips town.

This feels like its going nowhere. I'm tempted to just hammer Enchant and see what happens. At least we'd get plenty of information from the flip.

I will just pick these quotes as example, because they describe well what is bothering me. I am kind of missing the active intention to hunt for scum, besides that clash with FL, which was more of a reactive nature.

You were more leaning on TvT on Gandhi-FL and doubled down on town!Gandhi in 195 when the wagon got up to three votes. Of course, then the whole thing with FL happened, who you seem to be suspecting now or at least still are sceptical of as I assume. It didn't seem your stance on Gandhi/Enchant slot has changed, so I find your willingness to hammer a slot you are leaning town without trying anything else kind of odd.

This adds up with you being wary of Kitty and him potentially lining up for D2 in case of a town flip of a slot you are rather leaning town on anyway. Maybe I am having some wrong expectations, however I miss some critical attitude here that I would expect from town with the lack of engagement with like Kitty here as example.

[Skellen]

Maybe your read on Gandhi/Enchant slot has changed, but it doesn't feel like so. Atm there are too many things around you, that feel odd to me.

VOTE: TheHoldSteady

[Skellen]

I understand where you're coming from. But why do you think scum me would push on Leaf instead of the many other options? Surely you realize he was only player until that point who was town reading me?

That was something I was also having as argument in your favour for it's not really the best fight to pick there as scum. Then again, while you were showing of being a bit sceptical towards FL, your 1v1 was rather started by FL reacting to one of your comments about him in 199. And you only really committed to the push with a vote when he already had turned on you (which also felt more natural), so it doesn't really look to me like that was necessarily intended to begin with.

[Skellen]

I think the only thing that has been bugging me about bugspray is how they seemed kind of aware what was going on in the game when they popped in, but only were concerned about things about themselves or the Mason claim. Felt on first sight a little bit scummy, but for all I know that could be how they prioritize things when they don't have much time. Has someone played with them before?

[Skellen]

i forgot to read

Not having pressured this slot is probably one of my D1 regrets.

[Skellen]

@Kitty if you are around:
What are your thoughts on the THS wagon?

[Skellen]

OK, so why exactly is THS getting run up?

No idea when you have been effectively around last time.

304, 311 and the whole 1v1 with FL starting with 199 would sum up the most of it I think.

[Skellen]

It feels like something is stalling here, but I am not sure what. Probably more coming from Kop slot and bugspray still being hardly readable.

The mod seems to be from my timezone, so I think I can be around for the last hours if a vote will be needed somewhere. Although I am not sure what people will expect from the last 20 hours. If people can't compromise on THS only bugspray looks for me viable. Got some town pings from Enchant, even if just weak ones, and I was scumleaning that slot only for a particular post by Gandhi anyway.

[Skellen]

I do see Skellen shading THS on more than one occasion.

Can you clarify what exactly you mean with shading and why you think it's rather coming from scum?

[Skellen]

Very well, if you don't want to go for THS I don't see this going through.

VOTE: bugspray

[Skellen]

Not a super strong read since Kop wasn't fully caught up, but 460 looks like Kop is setting up to be able to vote any of {bugspray, THS, Enchant} depending on what people go towards.

Yes, exactly! Kop's catch-up at the end of D1 felt like... nothing, no vibes, but the focus on these three is pretty noticeable and odd. Why the focus on these three? It felt a bit artificial like he was gearing up to place his vote there, but always making sure to remain on the fence. He said he disliked some things or something feeling weird, but all these statements kind of lacked... impact.

I kind of want him to explain his progression on THS. He disliked him at first for his willingness to hammer so early, yet thought he made 1-2 townie posts that wouldn't redeem his earlier play (he never explained more here besides the hammer thing), just to take a chop at ND herself and her case on THS. like, it doesn't really feel he belived in a THS scumread that he kind of implied.

Why the particular focus on ND btw?

[Skellen]

Flavor Leaf as mafia posts many, but value of these is low in attempt to dominate thread, not provide and further game. There's like how many designated letters that i am town yet it's seriously considering to vote me. Out of everyone (yes it's why me in disguise, laugh). He doesn't pressure anything, he just posts. He only voted me in response that i voted him.

This is what he did with your predecessor and THS as well though? Well, minus them voting first. If I remember it correctly (it's been a while) that's how he often handles his 1v1s. How is he not providing/furthering the game? I don't really agree with that.

[Skellen]

The whole argument between FL and Enchant is a bit difficult to understand as it feels most of it is founding on previous experiences. Personally I am not really believing in scum!FL, I think he would have chosen other choices in this game by dayplay, also with the nk. As for Enchant, I thought their reaction to RN's vote at the end of D1 felt townie. Gandhi however felt more scummy. I will check the two games FL mentioned though.

@FL:
How does town!Enchant usually approach you or would you expect them to do so?

[Skellen]

@RN:
Can you still respond to 459 and 461 please?

[Skellen]

For the nk, THS seems kind of as odd choice, also because it means that scum weren't really gunning for the other pr. Probably.

I don't think anyone else on the THS wagon kills THS, not even FL for THS scumreading him, we saw on D1 how that went. He usually aims for players that can actually threat his thread control iirc.

I can see scum thinking that THS isn't a viable mislim option anymore after D1, which I am suspecting the most atm. Which would solidify my townread on ND further at least. Alternatively it's an attempt to shade those who pushed for THS as all three of us (me/ND/FL) were townreading each other and scum kind of has to break this apart if all three are town. By what I see only RN and Enchant have done so as the latter would imply.

[Skellen]

RN feels the scummiest to me tbh. I didn't really like his vote on me at the end of D1. Less for voting me, more for how it was less than 24 hours before deadline and it was just a pretty half-hearted push. Made it look like an alibi vote. The vote on me would have been kind of consistent as he was suggesting the idea of a team of me and ND to FL, however that was all. He never really went further there.

I am still hard town on ND and FL. I also think Kitty is town with his strong stance on THS on D1, which didn't felt bullshitty to me. Would like to hear more from Kitty though.

Have talked about Kop already and have to read stuff for Enchant.

Atm at a poe of Enchant/Kop/RN.

[Skellen]

This is such a weird game.

[Skellen]

This game has so weird kills. My secret take was everyone who genuinely bought into Enchant's fake Mason claim might have slipped being VT (if town), yet scum targeted exactly in these. It's not that Kitty was that hard to vote out, I think only FL and later me had him as town? So maybe low info kill and scum doesn't want to risk to reveal too much hitting elsewhere? Anyway, the kill choices seem to come from a defensive mindset imo.

Funnily I was about to go hard against FL if he would have claimed a pr for reasons above, however his claim is actually... quite good I think. It looks pretty plausible to me and it goes well hand in hand with Kitty reinforcing that he is sheeping FL on Enchant next day. Thinking about it, ironically scum might have interpreted that as Kitty having an inno on FL. That scenario might as well reinforce the plausibility of FL's claim.

I think the only question that comes up for me why did you target Kitty? Weren't you townreading him on D1 anyway?

[Skellen]

Needless to say, I am just VT.

[Skellen]

@Kop:

I kind of want him to explain his progression on THS. He disliked him at first for his willingness to hammer so early, yet thought he made 1-2 townie posts that wouldn't redeem his earlier play (he never explained more here besides the hammer thing), just to take a chop at ND herself and her case on THS. like, it doesn't really feel he belived in a THS scumread that he kind of implied.

Why the particular focus on ND btw?

Well, D2 was a bit rushed, but I still would like to hear from you about this.

[Skellen]

Kop or ND, at least one of them being scum here is entirely apparent, if not both. The kills were smart. The dayplay has been smooth for them. Either of them can be teamed with RN instead of each other, but it's clear it's at least one of them, which really takes Skellen out of the running almost always here.

I can follow your train of thoughts about most things you said, what takes me out here though? I mean, I get your townread, but why makes it unlikely for me to be teamed with Kop/RN?

[Skellen]

RN/Kop seems like the most likely solve to me on first sight. It feels so strange, because it would basically mean scum were pretty passive through the whole game while town simply killed each other.

I was hard town on ND for the simple reason that my personal rule of thumb is if another player has independent of yourself often the same observations or is triggered by the same things then this person is simply just as well town. Also no real motive for killing THS, that Enchant would turn so strongly against FL next day wasn't really a thing to expect. I feel I need to review her, because elo and due to the Enchant elimination happening so fast. It really didn't helped, that town selfhammered here so early.

[Skellen]

I just reread RN’s ISO, and I actually thought it was a lot scummier than it was, but really only the read on THS pinged me, but I can see them doing that as town too, so I don’t think it’s enough for me to really say they’re scum for sure here.

Yeah, that was pretty much the only post that gave me negative vibes as well. Both the handling of THS and starting a half-hearted push on me in less than 24 hours before deadline. To be fair his suspicion of me/ND has been consistent.

Atm I am more leaning on Kop being the scummiest, their catch-up felt pretty agenda-y, like he knew to what to pay attention to.

[Skellen]

@Skellen - both Kop and ND cleared you yesterday and pushed towards an Enchant/RN mindset.

True, ND left the backdoor open to review on you and me in case of a Enchant town flip though, which makes me a bit paranoid (still mostly because how quick Enchant went through), although her conclusion is legit as well. Don't really think this is scummy in a fency way though.

[Skellen]

I am a Town Lazy Roleblocker, and I targeted Skellen on both Nights.

Now three town prs in a 9p game are unlikely, at least such strong roles. And tbh two protectives as well.

I can get why you targeted me in N1, why me again in N2 though? By 489 you were thinking of solves that all had Kop in it. Why not him in N2?

[Skellen]

Ugh, everytime I have delved too much into setup spec things went south for me. I am more leaning on keeping it simple here, that it is as pretty much most 9p setups one with just two town prs. The only flipped role is an ungated Doctor and that is a pretty strong role for itself.
The FN can confirm two townies in best case and the Doc as well with one lucky safe. That's already third of the playerlist in a best case scenario. Add a Roleblocker to it with the right target and I can't even imagine what kind of power scum could possibly wield here.

Not too much of a fan of being the target for both nights either, but I have my thoughts so I would just like to hear.

[Skellen]

I have just been skimming, because I am at work and will look further into detail later, however my suspicion is pretty much unchanged.

I just don't buy that RN blocks me for two nights, and while the kills still happening isn't clearing for me obviously, he just continues to tunnel on me, not even considering he might even have been wrong.

He isn't really questioning FL's claim either, which should be the natural reaction from town. Like I don't think three town prs in a 9p is that common. He isn't even trying to sort FL, just some alibi paranoia ( because it's FL, not that he literally is another pr claim and should be the very first priority to sort from his point of view. Instead just some manipulative talking to FL to butter him up for a me/ND/anyone team.

The whole massclaim thing from D2 aside, that was already covered by FL/ND, RN also the fact that he didn't tried blocking ND, when the first block on me was already having no effect to the nk. Or Kop, who was even both his solves at D2. I was already mostly townread and in a safe spot at N1. When I am not performing the nk in that position and instead let my partner do it why would you assume it would be a different outcome in N2?

[Skellen]

It could be that you me and Kop are Town and Skellen and ND are just hunkered bacck in their bunker salivating for one of us to vote the other.

Like this is never a natural townie approach. He went from Skellen/ND, Kop/ND, Kop/Skellen on D2 to probably RN/FL/Kop as town, abandoning any suspicion on Kop for no reason and completely dismissing any potential suspicion towards FL despite the claim situation.

[Skellen]

Not liking Kop either in this exchange.

First he positioned himself like distrusting RN's claim in 620 when the state of the thread was tending to distrusting RN's claim and once RN started talking to FL he softens up to RN's narrative. It doesn't feel organic starting from his first D3 post. The whole exchange gives manipulative vibes imo.

[Skellen]

For me it's a FL vs RN situation and if FL's claim is the fake one here it's a really good one, since very well prepared. He would also have been born lucky with Kitty making that sheeping comment on D2, because it adds up too well to not be true.

If it's FL/ND I am going to be honest, I would never vote both out. Maybe one, and that would even hurt, but never two. I am kind of willing to die on that hill and then props to ND for getting it really well done to get me into her pocket.

[Skellen]

So yeah, apologies if I mess it up here, but I don't see me voting FL out over RN.

Might as well raise the stakes and put it to a test.

VOTE: Random Nurse

[Skellen]

To emphasize on the RN/Kop team (where I am like 99% sure it's simply that) I think the end of D1 is pretty telling.

When it seemed like the THS wagon would go through both were positioning themselves for the next day already in case of a THS town flip. Remember that me, FL and ND have all been townreading each other and if we are all town there would have been the threat of a solid town core forming. Voting THS out would have lead to raise suspicion on those who voted him (exactly us three). Both were gearing up for that: RN with his push on me (453) and Kop with taking a chop on ND's case on THS (465), which seemed kind of random anyway.

bugspray happened then of course, however they killed THS then anyway for the same effect. Although Kop wasn't saying anything about ND on D2 yet and was more on Enchant/RN (488). However with FL having RN as his top scumread at this point might imply they were preparing to distance each other (RN as well with his solves including Kop 489).

Kind of think that might have been the scum strategy with taking chops at the "weaker" links of us three and leaving FL the main work. The way RN were suggesting a team of me/ND to FL on D1 without going for the push gives this impression to me.

[Skellen]

Oh well, gg.

Very well played by both of you. The claim was good stuff. When I saw Kitty's comment I was instantly sold on it. Ugh.

Off to to my corner of shame and switching over to my Aureal account.