Mini Normal 2313: I am sitting in a room (game over)

[BlackStar]

Hi

VOTE: Shrek

You can’t trust ogres

[BlackStar]

Hey there, fellow Mafia enthusiasts!

Hi Charles! This post was really cute

vote Generic

This made me lol

Must be dog people

scoffs

~~~

VOTE: BlackStar

There can be only one black

There’s no need for black on black crime lol

[BlackStar]

Of course to be fair I must admit that I have been using ChatGPT to generate some posts. Sorry about that. It's just a tool that I use to help me with my writing skill.

I thought that your posts sounded a bit robotic but wondered if it would be rude to say that

[BlackStar]

lol I love how yall had the exact same reaction to that post as me, and by Charles not having it, and ignoring it completely, slightly sus of Charles for a partner

VOTE: AnimatedWiz

It doesn't seem THAT suspicious, but I'll keep an eye on them

[BlackStar]

What I don’t know about is the “don’t like Charles gpt post, not good!!” stuff followed by no votes there, like… no votes??

idk i’m on phone and have spent most of today sleeping

Thinking that the Chat GPT stuff is weird isn't the same thing as thinking that it's inherently scummy

dann’s playstyle this game seems too chill/laid back, I also don’t know what I think of it

bug’s early readslist is probably a good sign for bug, time shall tell, but that’s definitely not the kind of effort scum would likely give this slow paced game

Why do you think that this game is slow-paced? It seems like everyone is already firing on all syllables and trying to find anything to latch onto.

I agree that brrightbluebug's read list feels townie

[BlackStar]

bob feels town. I like his point re: Andante. Making associations this early kinda feels like they are trying to do too much? Like "hey I'm solving I'm so town"

I could see a Black and bob team tbh, bob is the only one Black has made a point to go "I think X is town BECAUSE of this reason" and then the 3rd is likely in shrek/gumi/afrayed or something like that

I agree with the post from Black that you quoted. You've been very active but your posting style seems like you're trying way too hard to look like you're trying to figure things out. Maybe you're being genuine, but the aggressiveness is rubbing me the wrong way

[BlackStar]

It's like you wanted to rush out of RVS the second it started and you're throwing shade at everyone who isn't trying to move as quickly as you

[BlackStar]

It's like you wanted to rush out of RVS the second it started and you're throwing shade at everyone who isn't trying to move as quickly as you

* I don't do rvs
* I'm just giving my thoughts on stuff as I read it, knowing full well I'm going to fall behind

like, I'm literally just trying my best here with what yall are giving me to work with, I'm off of work right now, thus I have the time to give this my all, thus I am here. not entirely sure the issue? If you wanna take charge/get people to start playing, be my guest!! but hey, I literally have to start somewhere to get reads, and as time moves on, my reads evolve

It just feels a bit unnatural to me as opposed to just letting things develop on their own

[BlackStar]

Most of the arguments with Andante seem more like a clash of playstyle than a clash of win condition to me. Her aggression is unusual, yes, but aggression itself isn't scummy.

You're right. I agree that this is mostly a difference of playstyles

[BlackStar]

Charles, do you scum read anyone at the moment?

[BlackStar]

VOTE: blackstar

What’s this about?

[quote=BlackStar post_id=13918111 post_num=142 time=<a href="tel:1695159095" style="color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">1695159095</a> user_id=26973]
Charles, do you scum read anyone at the moment?

Not really. It's still way too early
[/quote]
Fair. So everyone is still null to you?

[BlackStar]

I’m so bad at quoting

Charles, do you scum read anyone at the moment?

Not really. It's still way too early

So everyone is still null to you?

[BlackStar]

your ratio of posts to content is not great

you've made a lot of nothing comments and posts

the biggest stance you've taken is that brightbluebug's read list was townie

and then you come in after a bunch of discussion on adante, black, gumiguy, animatedwiz, and instead of engaging with any of that discussion, you shoot a question towards someone who has basically offered up no game content yet

you just seem little too afraid to rock the boat with your posting

Obviously I'm biased, but I completely disagree with your assessment of me lol

How was I not "rocking the boat" when I mentioned that I felt that Andante was being really aggressive and a bit unnatural with how they were trying to force the game to progress? That was me engaging with them

I asked Charles that question for the exact reason that you mentioned: he hasn't given his opinion on anything at all and I wanted to know what he was thinking.

[BlackStar]

ok so do you scum read adante?

I'm choosing to give them the benefit of the doubt for now and say that they're probably just overeager town. But there's a chance that they're scum trying to look busy. I guess I'll say that I'm 70% sure they're town right now

[BlackStar]

ok so do you scum read adante?

I'm choosing to give them the benefit of the doubt for now and say that they're probably just overeager town. But there's a chance that they're scum trying to look busy. I guess I'll say that I'm 70% sure they're town right now

How was anything I said “trying to look busy”??

For the most part, you’ve controlled the flow of the game so far more than anyone else. It’s easy to town read you because you seem to be serious about making things happen and figure people out.

But that’s also why it’s a great strategy for the scum team to take. You’re active and confrontational, so most people would doubt that you could be scum. That’s all I mean

[BlackStar]

At this point multiple people have said that Andante’s posts felt a bit unnatural but that they ultimately town read her. Which is the same thing that I said. I’m not sure what the problem is

[BlackStar]

At this point multiple people have said that Andante’s posts felt a bit unnatural but that they ultimately town read her. Which is the same thing that I said. I’m not sure what the problem is

I don't Town read her, but besides that. Your post kinda felt like you didn't want to take a stance. So in my point of view you look like partners

That doesn’t make sense to me. I took the stance that she’s most likely town. It wouldn’t really make much sense for a member of the scum team to say that they town read their partner but they’re also a little wary of them. It would be better to take a strong stance for or against them.

This is only my second game after not playing not at all for years, but I’m positive that I would just completely throw my partners under the bus if I was playing as scum lol. I know that me saying that probably isn’t worth much though

[BlackStar]

I don’t think I ever got an answer to this

Charles, do you scum read anyone at the moment?

Not really. It's still way too early

So everyone is still null to you?

[BlackStar]

At this point multiple people have said that Andante’s posts felt a bit unnatural but that they ultimately town read her. Which is the same thing that I said. I’m not sure what the problem is

its not much of an original thought. Its easy for scum to parrot the reads of town players if several town players have them

Only one person brought it up before me…

[BlackStar]

VOTE: Charles510

It feels strange that you haven’t really shared your thoughts on anything so far

[BlackStar]

This is where I'm at right now

Town

Generic- conf town

Andante- I initially didn’t like how “hyperactive” her vibe is, for lack of a better word. They seemed desperate for things to move at a breakneck pace and to force associations between people. But at this point I’m pretty sure that they’re just trying their best to figure people out and be proactive.

Town Lean

Black- She’s been questioning people and coming to conclusions on her own. I feel good about Black

Gumiguy- Hasn’t posted much but it doesn’t feel like they’re just following others. I’m not really sure why but I get the vibe that they’re probably town

Afrayed Knott- They haven’t posted that much, but they’ve asked good questions and seem to be trying to figure people out

Hu Tao- Even though I disagree with almost all of her reads, I think I believe that she believes them. But there’s also a part of me that doesn’t want to trust her since she’s saying that I’m likely scum and need to be limmed lol.

Null

Bob3141- I liked him questioning Andante about how sure they are about their scum reads in post 47and saying that it’s too soon to be sure about that stuff. I also agreed with his point about Charle’s wagon following vote on Wiz being bad in post 84. I didn’t like post 186 where he tried to say that I was just parroting even though I posted my opinion before the vast majority did. Not sure if it was an intentional misrep or if he just wasn’t following the convo closely

Shrek- I liked their post about the Bob/Charles interaction. But then they dropped off the face of the Earth

Brightbluebug- hasn’t really said shit since dropping their early read list and getting townie points from some of us

Scum Lean

Dannflor- Not sure if I buy his scum read of me. I really don’t think it’s fair to say that I’ve come across as scared to rock the boat. Then he posted his scum read list and only listed me and all the people who have barely posted and didn't give any reasons for why he was sure they were scum. It looked like he was just going for low-hanging fruit. But then I realized that I have brightbluebug and Shrek pretty low on my list too, so there is a small chance that he's just misguided or lazy town. If Dannflor flipped as town, then Hu Tao would immediately drop into my scum lean section because at least 1 person on the wagon right now has got to be scum and we can obviously exclude Generic from suspicion.

Scum

Charles- Unwilling to share any thoughts about anything. Nobody else finds it weird that he’s so closed off? This might just be me being paranoid, but I find it strange that every time I try to put a little pressure on him something happens to completely deflect the attention away from him.

AnimatedWiz- Has been very wishy washy throughout the game. Seems unwilling to make any moves on their own. They’ve just been going along with whatever popular idea is gaining momentum.

[BlackStar]

charles is the definition of low hanging fruit

And yet nobody else really seems bothered by him

[BlackStar]

charles is the definition of low hanging fruit

And yet nobody else really seems bothered by him

A lot of us have voted for him in the past, but he passed most people's vibe checks after that happened—trust me, several of us were bothered by him earlier.

That's what I mean. He hasn't done anything worthy of passing a vibe check, so I don't understand why everyone is so okay with him. Any discussion about him peters out almost immediately

Dannflor- Not sure if I buy his scum read of me.

If you were town you wouldn't buy it, regardless, so seems a strange sentence?

I've been keeping a reads list on my phone since the game started and updating it as things progress. I wasn't sure whether or not he seemed genuine to me at first and then later on I dropped him down to a scum lean and didn't delete that sentence

I really don’t think it’s fair to say that I’ve come across as scared to rock the boat

where was this said and by whom?

It was said by Dannflor when I originally asked why he voted for me. That was his reason

[BlackStar]

charles is the definition of low hanging fruit

And yet nobody else really seems bothered by him

A lot of us have voted for him in the past, but he passed most people's vibe checks after that happened—trust me, several of us were bothered by him earlier.

If he’s passed the vibe check and you’re not bothered by him anymore, why is your vote still parked on him?

[BlackStar]

VOTE: Animatedwhiz

[BlackStar]

VOTE: blackstar

I'd love to talk more with you about where you feel this game is at blackstar

I don't trust Charles and I don't trust AnimatedWhiz. I've been going back and forth in my head on whether I should leave my vote on Charles or move it to Whiz. They're both voting for each other but Charles only voted for Whiz because the person that you replaced did and Whiz doesn't seem to be too worried about Charles but won't move their vote.

I haven't seen anything that would give me a reason to town read Whiz. They don't commit to anything and don't seem to really believe in anything that say. Nobody else seems bothered by Charles

I've assumed that they're just scum partners bussing each other. But almost everyone else in the game thinks Charles is town. If my views are so different from everyone else, then I guess it's possible that I've been wrong about him. I don't have any doubts that Whiz is scum, so I'd rather go there than take the tiny chance of a mislim with Charles

[BlackStar]

charles is the definition of low hanging fruit

And yet nobody else really seems bothered by him

A lot of us have voted for him in the past, but he passed most people's vibe checks after that happened—trust me, several of us were bothered by him earlier.

That's what I mean. He hasn't done anything worthy of passing a vibe check, so I don't understand why everyone is so okay with him. Any discussion about him peters out almost immediately

Dannflor- Not sure if I buy his scum read of me.

If you were town you wouldn't buy it, regardless, so seems a strange sentence?

I've been keeping a reads list on my phone since the game started and updating it as things progress. I wasn't sure whether or not he seemed genuine to me at first and then later on I dropped him down to a scum lean and didn't delete that sentence

I really don’t think it’s fair to say that I’ve come across as scared to rock the boat

where was this said and by whom?

It was said by Dannflor when I originally asked why he voted for me. That was his reason

I’m not sure your response to my statement about Dann’s scrum read on you makes sense. Could you just clear up how you listing Dann as scum and then dropping him down that list, is connected to him having a scum read on you?

You said that sentence was weird. It was from when I had him in the null section. He scum read me, but I didn't know if I thought it was genuine or BS. I decided that I didn't believe that he believed what he was saying and moved him down to a scum lean and forgot to get rid of that sentence

[BlackStar]

I’d like to know more specifics about your afrayed knott read

Do you have a specific question?

[BlackStar]

I saw it posted but stopped at page 11 lol

Look for contradictions in logic.

but I find it strange that every time I try to put a little pressure on him something happens to completely deflect the attention away from him.

What do you mean? Shouldnt you feel like the people who are pulling attention away from charles are his scumbuddies? Where are your questions for them?

Every time that I mention him nobody really wants to get into it. I already questioned AnimatedWhiz about why they were still voting him after a post about how Charles passed everyone's vibe checks and they gave the excuse that they just meant that everyone thinks Charles is town, not her.

[BlackStar]

I think I vibe with BlackStar town atm. He's really active and confrontational, which isn't inherently townie, but it's definitely not the ideal play for scum. He doesn't really seem to have any allies even though a lot of people are pushing him

I'm calling this right now. If Wiz flips scum then Dann is scum too

Thank you lol. You should hop on the Wiz wagon

[BlackStar]

I’d like to know more specifics about your afrayed knott read

Do you have a specific question?

Why do you town read him

Your read was very vague there

They’re questioning and analyzing people and it feels like they’re trying to figure them out.

After my first skim through, ( and that is what I did as there is so much there) my initial gut feeling is that Andante is pushy - is that a good think or bad thing not sure at the moment. I Acknowledge that she has a champion in her corner right now with Black stating they have played town together and initial thoughts from Black are that Andante is Town. But do we trust Black could be a bluff.

Blackstar also has a town read on Andante, or am I reading into that? I'm liking Blackstar atm.

Charles doesn't give me a good vibe right now. or in his AI generated parlance, he is not resonating with me.

Ani, well what to say, for someone who hasn't played much there is a deal of knowledge about Mafia lingo. And there is a lor of filler there, but I think that is probably because a lot of it was early doors when he was being "coached", no not coached "gentle advice" which if he was scum then surely that coaching might be happening in their thread? that is of course if his main advisor is mafia, but as they are declared as an innocent child then probably not. That or scum have thrown Ani to the town as a sacrifice. No I think Ani is Town atm.

Hu Tau... hmmmmmmmmm

Dann, well where to start, inquisitive and asking levelled questions, no read atm

Gumi, really hasn't said much that sticks out to me other than post 102. deflection?

Blue Bug. I get a null feel right now.

If I've missed anyone I shall catch up with you as we now progress. these are my first impressions, and based on which

VOTE: Hu Tau

They came in and shared their thoughts on the game quickly

Yeah Agree with Gen about the statement by Bob and any Protective in game 48,

Ani did you get a reply from Dann on this 61. you didn't. is it important, well surely you asked a question it wasn't answered. Did you loss track of it? probably as Black actually picked it up for you and asked Dann for you...?

Bob is looking town to me right now, but after a second read my scumdar has moved with regard Dann. questions statements, but no answers. and the whole convo with Black about that question... seems a little contrite to me

My word Shrek, you don't say much do you, I know I am a fine one to talk, it takes me to D4 IRL to actually get going, but hey.

They continued to do that and ask questions for more clarification. Their ISO is mostly stuff like that

[BlackStar]

Whoa, hold up, wait. Let me read and come up with some things.

that doesn't come from new scum??

UNVOTE:

I kind of expected a different response from Charles here if he's a new player that rolled scum. I feel like it's more likely he would ask for advice in the scum PT rather than quickly posting that he'll read and "come up with some stuff"

Thank you for that. I'm pretty new to mafia and don't know what to say.

and that too??

I agree about not seeing why those posts would be considered townie

[BlackStar]

That’s rather possible, but I think Shrek is the most suspicious out of that group. Their only “real” posts (43 and 95) seem to have analysis, but ultimately both just say certain people

could

be town and

in doing so try to take heat off certain people (me, Andante, Charles, and Bob).

It comes off as rather weak and wishy-washy, even in my opinion.

VOTE: Shrek

Something about the bolded part feels weird to me and I’m not sure what it is. The quick unvote after that where Wiz doesn’t even consider that Shrek could’ve been scum who popped up again because they knew they were about to get prodded also feels wrong.

[BlackStar]

after a quick skim

VOTE: brightbluebug

really hasnt done anythign since their read wall. A read wall doesnt match with the level of activity they have as you usualy expect more reads to go around it. But their case the read wall has every mention of a read in it

Also dont like their last post.

Always a bit of flag when some ask about a player but doesnt give any extra on that slot

Bright what is your read on blackstar?

Lol

[BlackStar]

I just thought it was funny that you said "It's a red flag when people ask about someone without giving their own opinion. By the way, what do you think of this person I haven't given my read on?"

[BlackStar]

Bob what is your read on BlackStar?

I'm interested to hear his reads on everyone

[BlackStar]

I just thought it was funny that you said "It's a red flag when people ask about someone without giving their own opinion. By the way, what do you think of this person I haven't given my read on?"

I see you havent realised your mistake as i never said that. i said "give any extra" not reads.

What do you mean by any extra?

[BlackStar]

I just thought it was funny that you said "It's a red flag when people ask about someone without giving their own opinion. By the way, what do you think of this person I haven't given my read on?"

I see you havent realised your mistake as i never said that. i said "give any extra" not reads.

What do you mean by any extra?

VOTE: Blackstar

your question is classic case of scum asking pointless questions. classic example of a sealioning question.

Like what was this meant to achieve. any extra/anything extra is kind of self explanatory.

You didn't share your own thoughts. I would think that would be "anything extra" but you said that I made a mistake, so I just wanted to know what you meant

[BlackStar]

I barely even want to play anymore because apparently anything that I say is scummy

[BlackStar]

Merlyn is town

No I don’t think so.

Why is that?

[BlackStar]

Hmm we need to come to consensus soon..

Hm, as much time as four days seems right now, I think you're right—with how slow we've all been to build truly sizeable wagons, we might find ourselves having to suddenly hammer someone a few hours before the end of Day 1 if we're not careful.

As much as I like not being up for elimination, I'm curious as to why Bob and Afrayed are now claiming to believe both me and Blackstar are town? With how long it's taken to get to just 4-5 votes on each wagon, I suppose the logic about scum being hesitant/split could make sense, but at the same I would think it more likely they'd be more active in trying to consolidate their votes to get rid of someone who was town—I guess what I'm saying is, it feels more likely to me that the Blackstar or I is scum and the scumteam is trying to not have to bus a teammate this early.

I suppose that train of thought would mean that Bob and Afrayed could be scum, and I guess Blackstar or I (or even both) would be as well. I definitely trust Bob the most out of the three, so I think it would more likely be Afrayed and Blackstar in opinion.

Again, this logic might not be the case, and I would love to hear what they say about my theory.

But, uh, acting on that logic (and to avoid a panic vote in the final hours of Day 1), VOTE: Blackstar.

There are a few things about this post that are bothering me but for now I’ll just focus on the biggest thing, which I bolded. Neither Bob or Afrayed are on either of our wagons right now. If you were just talking about the scum team being split on our wagons, then why would you leap to the conclusion that those guys must be scum?

[BlackStar]

There are a few things about this post that are bothering me but for now I’ll just focus on the biggest thing, which I bolded. Neither Bob or Afrayed are on either of our wagons right now. If you were just talking about the scum team being split on our wagons, then why would you leap to the conclusion that those guys must be scum?

I think you misunderstood me. Specifically, I’m saying their argument about scum being split on our wagons

doesn’t

seem likely to me—it wouldn’t really make sense for scum to be split on our wagons if we were both town.

I instead feel it’s more likely that you or I are scum, and that the scumteam is trying to avoid voting to prevent a teammate from being eliminated—even voting the other person could still put heat on the other if they flip as town.

Again, this is not the only possibility, but I feel it’s one of the most plausible.

Okay, I get what you meant.

But I don’t think there would ever be a downside to bussing a teammate, especially on Day One. It would earn you townie points for helping to get rid of one of the scum. If anything, people would be more suspicious of anyone who was resisting the wagon and finding reasons to vote elsewhere.

The timing of your vote just feels like you thought Hu Tao gave you a good opening to finally jump on my wagon.

[BlackStar]

bob's interactions with bug feel very partnery

Would someone really advise their teammate in front of the town like that?

[BlackStar]

Charles510, Gumiguy, BlackStar, Black why the vote on Ani/Wiz?

and

Dannflor, Hu Tao, pisskop, AnimatedWiz why the vote on Blackstar?

I just don’t get the feeling that Wiz’s posts are sincere. They’ve been fence sitting a lot and not really taking a strong stance on anything

[BlackStar]

After rereading Annie I think my vote was kind of an Oh My God You Suck reaction to him voting for me. I don’t know what to think about him anymore so I’m just going to

Unvote

for now.

You voted for Wiz waaaaaay before they voted for you, so this explanation doesn’t make sense

[BlackStar]

Maybe I missed it but did you say why you don’t think Merlyn is scum, Afrayed?

[BlackStar]

Sorry, I meant town

[BlackStar]

I think bug can very easily flip scum but it's not as high confidence as I would like and

the flip gives us less information than Blackstar

Good point

VOTE: Blackstar

That should be E-2, right?

[BlackStar]

so are you just giving up or...

If me dying helps the town to come together and narrow down who the scum team is, then maybe it's a valid option. I've pushed Wiz and Charles but I've started to doubt my scum reads of them a little bit. I think Afrayed is town and the arguments for Bug haven't been that strong. Sof if we HAVE to lim someone, I guess I'm a decent choice because it would force you all to analyze everyone's reasons for joining the wagon. I would prefer to stay alive though

[BlackStar]

My top scum read right now is Hu Tao, but I don't think you'll agree to lim them

[BlackStar]

so are you just giving up or...

If me dying helps the town to come together and narrow down who the scum team is, then maybe it's a valid option. I've pushed Wiz and Charles but I've started to doubt my scum reads of them a little bit. I think Afrayed is town and the arguments for Bug haven't been that strong. Sof if we HAVE to lim someone, I guess I'm a decent choice because it would force you all to analyze everyone's reasons for joining the wagon. I would prefer to stay alive though

My top scum read right now is Hu Tao, but I don't think you'll agree to lim them

Yeah, I think you're probably town. If you're writing this as scum, like bravo but I don't think you are.

We have some opposing reads- why do you think Afrayed is town and Hu Tao is scum?

The main people who have been on my wagon are Dannflor, Hu Tao, and Generic/Pisskop. Wiz also joined later on. Pisskop is conf town and stuff like Dannflor's most recent post chain has made me feel like he's town and legitimately trying to sort everything out. If he was scum, there wouldn't be any reason to back off after my self-vote. Wiz has been pretty flip-floppy and I saw that as being opportunistic before, but now I think they're just really unsure about everyone.

At least one person on my wagon has to be scum, and Hu Tao is the only person left based on the process of elimination. Also, she doesn't really offer much to the conversation other than saying that she thinks I'm scum and getting happy whenever someone talks about limming me. For the most part, she's just been hanging in the shadows.

As for why I town read Afrayed, I've already mentioned a couple of times that it just feels like he's probing people and trying to get answers

[BlackStar]

Sure I can do this

VOTE: afrayed

You've said this whole game that you weren't sure about him being scum, so why are you so ready to lim him now?

[BlackStar]

VOTE: Hu Tao

[BlackStar]

i suppose that's a confidence issue then. i just dont trust myself to do anything accurately.

So do it inaccurately. Just try

[BlackStar]

It’s definitely hypocritical of me to say this but I’m not loving Afrayed’s self vote. I’m not sure what he wanted it to accomplish

[BlackStar]

VOTE: Andante

[BlackStar]

UNVOTE:

Sorry, I thought that would be funny

[BlackStar]

Afrayed Knott be warned i might end up hammering if your still self voting by the end of teh day

I'm still on this, even though it was a town flip, it's like, this post feels SO SCUMMY

Why is it scummy? I’m not defending him, but wouldn’t it be easy as scum to just make up a BS reason and go for the hammer instead of announcing that you’re giving someone a lot of time before you’ll hammer them?

[BlackStar]

VOTE: Hu Tao

VOTE: Hu Tao

If Hu Tao flips scum I think Dann might flip scum too

What makes you say that?

[BlackStar]

brightbluebug, gumiguy, and bob3141

there's genuinely no way that is the entire team... I'd only believe it if I saw it

Why is this so hard to believe?

I've never seen a team of just the lhf like that before, like bob is scared scum right now, he doesn't know what to post, so I understand that one, the other 2? just doing nothing?? there's like always a scum partner that'll like take charge or whatever. and of that trio, I'm not seeing a leader.

bug is likely just town, that partner interaction with afrayed thing... ehh probably just means town, and like I was talking about before I yeeted afrayed, we are in trouble because we have town doing absolutely nothing/not caring...

I want to yeet bob first because I know this is scum!bob

I really don't think it's fair that you keep saying that you're the only person who's doing anything. People might not be jumping to agree with every idea you have, but that doesn't mean we're just sitting on our asses. Everybody has their own way of doing things.

Right now I still think that Hu Tao is the most likely person to be scum, but I think it's possible that Bug is her partner

[BlackStar]

Something that I noticed on day one was that Hu Tao kept saying that she was unsure about Bug. And when the push started for a bug wagon late on Day One, instead of commenting on that she completely ignored that it was happening. I thought that was interesting

[BlackStar]

Everybody has their own way of doing things.

you don't actually seem mad afrayed flipped town there...

Running around saying "I told you so!" wouldn't be very helpful.

VOTE: blackstar

[BlackStar]

Why is Bob "conf scum"?

[BlackStar]

bob. is. scum.

says the guy who hammered an obvous townie. Even if they might have been a liability with that tantrum after they got run up,

How can you call Afrayed an obvious townie now if you were willing to hammer him?

[BlackStar]

I really am townreading you, Andante, but I feel like you’re barking up the wrong tree again. Sure, Bob had some scummy stuff going on at the end of D1, but I don’t feel like the evidence is as damming for him as it is for other people.

Are we still going to ignore that fact that multiple people flip-flopped on their votes immediately on D2? I feel like Blackstar is still the better elimination here due to both that and D1.

VOTE: Blackstar

is the point here that people flip flopping means that scum were looking for an excuse to get off of blackstar? because i think scum would be way more likely to stay on blackstar if they were planning a D1 bus

He's talking about the beginning of D2 when everyone voted Andante without explaining and then I voted for her too and unvoted 30 seconds later

[BlackStar]

UNVOTE:

It didn't look like Black was role fishing at all. I would never have thought that you were a cop based on that post before you got angry at Black and accused her of that.

[BlackStar]

VOTE: Brightbluebug

[BlackStar]

and then bob is one

I 100% missed this one.

Where?

He claimed to be the cop

[BlackStar]

Hey, I’ll be real honest—I think I might have missed something about the case on Merlyn?

From what I understand, she was early on the Afrayed train and has been weird and attacking who we now know are likely Townies, right?

Is there anything else here that I’m missing aside from that? I want to make sure I’m fully updated before I cast my vote—information is key, after all.

whats your opinion on them though?

cant tell if your trying to diffuse/defend meryl or angle onto the wagon

D1, I was rather keen about her, since she came in and starting talking a lot more than her predecessor and made good points in general, which in hindsight isn’t the most pressing evidence.

D2, not as much—she was major leader on the Afrayed train, and was rather antagonistic towards you before your identity as a Town Cop came out. I wouldn’t scumread her more than BlackStar, but at this point she’s a light scumread. It seems like a lot of people are scumreading her far more, and I’m not sure why—that’s why I asked, because I feel like I’m missing something that would cause that intensification.

Pisskop is conf town. Black and Hu Tao have been potentially cleared as town. Bob claimed cop. Andante and Dannflor have acted very townie.

So that leaves Merlyn, Bug, Gumiguy, Charles, and you as people who could be scum.

Out of the potential candidates for scum, only you and Merlyn were on Afrayed's wagon when it got hammered, so that's one of the reasons why people are focused on her right now.

[BlackStar]

VOTE: bob

I just realized that this is Bug’s first vote of the entire game. How did we not notice that before?

[BlackStar]

I know that you pointed out how he had Bob as a town read and then voted for him when the attention shifted to him. But I meant that we should've noticed sooner that he'd gone all this time without placing a single vote.

[BlackStar]

I think we should lim Bug today

[BlackStar]

Did everyone get around to reading through everything?

[BlackStar]

I mean, you sure could call the IC out for coaching the scum team if you were in the mood

[BlackStar]

Here’s the post where Afrayed was eliminated. You can look at that page and the one before it to see who was here

[BlackStar]

I like how much effort Jackson has put into getting caught up and showing us their thoughts throughout the process. It seems towny to me because I doubt that a member of the scum team would go this far.

I’m town so all the conspiracy theory stuff you’ve said about me is wrong and I’m happy to clear anything up.

As for what Black asked about why my read on Dannflor changed, I already mentioned it in this post. He’s been willing to remain open minded about people and seems to be working hard to solve things. It doesn’t feel like he’s being manipulative or just following the crowd, so I think he’s probably town.

Hu Tao has been potentially cleared and I town read Andante, so the only person from my D1 wagon who I’m still unsure about is Wiz

[BlackStar]

I like how much effort Jackson has put into getting caught up and showing us their thoughts throughout the process. It seems towny to me because I doubt that a member of the scum team would go this far.

I’m town so all the conspiracy theory stuff you’ve said about me is wrong and I’m happy to clear anything up.

As for what Black asked about why my read on Dannflor changed, I already mentioned it in this post. He’s been willing to remain open minded about people and seems to be working hard to solve things. It doesn’t feel like he’s being manipulative or just following the crowd, so I think he’s probably town.

Hu Tao has been potentially cleared and I town read Andante, so the only person from my D1 wagon who I’m still unsure about is Wiz

Did you read all of what I said?

Yeah

[BlackStar]

Are you sure? I directly asked you something in the midst of it

Do you mean the part about Wiz? I started off scum reading him because he seemed to not take a stand on anything and just follow the crowd. Then I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he was just an unsure townie. But almost every post that he makes rubs me the wrong way and just feels like he's leaving the door open to jump on any wagon in the future, so I think I'm still leaning scum on him

[BlackStar]

I don't think your reasons for town!Dann are good enough to remove him from your PoE all together. It doesn't really feel believable. To me it seems like you both scumread each other to distance and then came up with ways to remove each other from your PoEs

If he was scum, there wouldn't be any reason to back off after my self-vote

I can think of a couple reasons he would do that as scum if you're town. But he would have more reason to back off if you're both scum

I know that I’m town, so I’m not sure what to tell you

[BlackStar]

I know that I’m town, so I’m not sure what to tell you

Why is your first thought here "I need to reiterate I'm town" instead of wondering why scum!Dann would back off of town!you? You said there wouldn't be any reason for him to do that as scum. I'm saying there are a couple reasons he would, but you're not questioning that. Is that something you actually believe? I don't get the vibe that you're actually trying to sort Dannflor this game

I assumed that you meant he was trying to pocket me. But I don't see how that would be the best option for him when everyone was on board with limming me then. It would make much more sense for him to just keep on trying to lim me.

Is there some other reason that you were thinking of?

[BlackStar]

like actually why does it make any sense for blackstar to get upset and selfvote if it was a planned distancing thing

The self vote may have been a genuine frustration moment for him. I don't think your distancing plan included that

If him starting a wagon on me was part of a plan, then why would I feel any frustration?

[BlackStar]

like actually why does it make any sense for blackstar to get upset and selfvote if it was a planned distancing thing

The self vote may have been a genuine frustration moment for him. I don't think your distancing plan included that

If him starting a wagon on me was part of a plan, then why would I feel any frustration?

If there was a plan then I don't think it would have included hard bussing and fading you. You had a decent amount of support throughout D1 (myself included) so I can see frustration brewing from that support falling apart and your wagon gaining real steam

I know that saying this means nothing, but the only thing that frustrates me when I play is being scum read when I’m town. If I’m playing as scum then it doesn’t really bother me that much to be scum read because you’re right. Pushing for my lim as town instead of going after scum is what bothers me

[BlackStar]

I know that saying this means nothing, but the only thing that frustrates me when I play is being scum read when I’m town. If I’m playing as scum then it doesn’t really bother me that much to be scum read because you’re right. Pushing for my lim as town instead of going after scum is what bothers me

Sure I'm down for some self-meta. Do you not get frustrated as scum? Do you have any completed scum games on the site?

This is only my second game after not playing since 2018, so I'm mostly going off of my memory. I just know that people scum read me a lot as town and that I always had more fun playing as scum. I'll try to find old scum games

[BlackStar]

@Black

Here are some of my scum games:

viewtopic.php?t=67932
viewtopic.php?t=71628
viewtopic.php?t=64831

[BlackStar]

That being said, I'm actually not confident blue is a wolf. I have them pretty low in my reads but like my gut is telling me that it isn't them, and if I were to try and put logic behind that feeling I'd say because it's been easy to push all game? But I'm aware that's mostly NAI by it's lonesome so I'll try and put some extra thought into that

Most people have said that they're suspicious of Bug but the wagon has stalled out and we keep moving off in other directions instead.

[BlackStar]

That being said, I'm actually not confident blue is a wolf. I have them pretty low in my reads but like my gut is telling me that it isn't them, and if I were to try and put logic behind that feeling I'd say because it's been easy to push all game? But I'm aware that's mostly NAI by it's lonesome so I'll try and put some extra thought into that

Most people have said that they're suspicious of Bug but the wagon has stalled out and we keep moving off in other directions instead.

Are you insinuating this is resistance because they're a wolf?

Maybe. All I know is that they don't seem to be as easy to push as you said

[BlackStar]

That being said, I'm actually not confident blue is a wolf. I have them pretty low in my reads but like my gut is telling me that it isn't them, and if I were to try and put logic behind that feeling I'd say because it's been easy to push all game? But I'm aware that's mostly NAI by it's lonesome so I'll try and put some extra thought into that

Most people have said that they're suspicious of Bug but the wagon has stalled out and we keep moving off in other directions instead.

Are you insinuating this is resistance because they're a wolf?

Maybe. All I know is that they don't seem to be as easy to push as you said

I should be more specific, they're easy to argue they're wolf.

Oh okay, gotcha. But if it's easy to argue that they're scum then isn't that a good reason to press them?

[BlackStar]

VC 1.22 /// FINAL

Afrayed Knott

(7):

Merlyn

, Black,

Dannflor

, AnimatedWiz, Hu Tao, Afrayed Knott, Andante

BlackStar

(1): pisskop

AnimatedWiz

(1):

Gumiguy

Hu Tao

(1):

BlackStar

Not Voting

(3):

brightbluebug

, bob3141, Charles510

With 13 alive, it took 7 votes to scuttle a player. Day 1 has ended (countdown: (expired on 2023-09-28 06:30:00)).

mod notes: Tussling, failing

This is the final D1 vote count—here we can see two of Jackson’s scumreads on Afrayed’s wagon, and 3 not.

I feel like out of those 5, Merlyn is the most likely scum on the wagon, with BlackStar the most likely off the wagon.

Based on what?

[BlackStar]

VC 1.22 /// FINAL

Afrayed Knott

(7):

Merlyn

, Black,

Dannflor

, AnimatedWiz, Hu Tao, Afrayed Knott, Andante

BlackStar

(1): pisskop

AnimatedWiz

(1):

Gumiguy

Hu Tao

(1):

BlackStar

Not Voting

(3):

brightbluebug

, bob3141, Charles510

With 13 alive, it took 7 votes to scuttle a player. Day 1 has ended (countdown: (expired on 2023-09-28 06:30:00)).

mod notes: Tussling, failing

This is the final D1 vote count—here we can see two of Jackson’s scumreads on Afrayed’s wagon, and 3 not.

I feel like out of those 5, Merlyn is the most likely scum on the wagon, with BlackStar the most likely off the wagon.

Based on what?

Merlyn is the one I trust least on that wagon—I townread Dann, Hu Tao, Andante, and Black (in that order), and Afrayed is obviously town, so that leaves Merlyn as the only person on that wagon I really scumread. You made the same point earlier in D2.

For you, it’s the same reasons as before—I can go into detail later if you’d like.

Hu Tao and Black have already been potentially cleared, so why do you have them below Damn and Andante in your town reads?

[BlackStar]

BlackStar do you have an updated readslist you wouldn't mind sharing?

Here

Town
Pisskop- conf town
Black- IC clear?
Bob3141- cop?
Hu Tao- cop clear?
Andante
Dannflor

Null
JacksonVirgo/Charles510
Merlyn
gob/Gumiguy

Scum
AnimatedWiz
Brightbluebug

[BlackStar]

Do you have one, Black?

[BlackStar]

Oh huh, thought you had me Town

You’ve been very active and seem to be working hard to solve things. But you’re pushing hard for me to get eliminated, so I can’t be sure if you’re town or not yet

If Wiz was a wolf, would they not know that Black is soft-cleared?

I feel like a member of the town would definitely remember which people have been removed from the pool of potential scum

[BlackStar]

You’ve been very active and seem to be working hard to solve things. But you’re pushing hard for me to get eliminated, so I can’t be sure if you’re town or not yet

If you're Town, are you saying being wrong is something that's scummy enough to take from that initial read? That makes little sense, there's the IC and a soft-cleared person pushing you too this feels disingenuous, I don't care about the read itself but the logic behind it is bad

I’m saying that I know that I’m town and you want me gone. Like you said, the IC and a soft cleared person are also pushing me, but you haven’t been cleared. So there’s no reason at this point for me to be certain that you’re a misguided townie instead of scum going for a mislim

[BlackStar]

Yes, but that being a reason to put me in null feels disingenuous

What’s disingenuous about it? Your questioning feels townie. But you’re also pushing for me to die. I want to trust you based on the effort you’ve put in but wanting me dead is a point against you. You haven’t done enough that I could confidently say “this guy is town”. All the people below you are also uncleared and have done stuff throughout the game that I didn’t love.

So to sum it up, I don’t like that you’re pushing hard for my mislim but your overall vibe seems pretty townie. That’s why you’re null

[BlackStar]

I’m just saying that it would be ridiculous to blindly put him down as town and ignore the fact that he’s trying to get rid of me. I never said that only scum would push me

[BlackStar]

I’m just saying that it would be ridiculous to blindly put him down as town and ignore the fact that he’s trying to get rid of me. I never said that only scum would push me

I don't think it's ridiculous to put someone you get town vibes from in your "town lean" pile. What I do find ridiculous is

not

doing that because your town lean is pushing you. You're acting like he's scummy just for pushing you, as if you don't think a townie would push you. But you think I'm town and I'm pushing you, so what do you really believe?

Again, you’re not understanding me. I never said that only scum would push me. All I said is that him pushing against me is enough for me to have him as null. I think that you’re town because I’ve been town reading you the entire game and you’ve been soft cleared

[BlackStar]

blackstar incase JV is town adn your just omgusing

Tell us about your main 2 scum reads, as thats a better way to show us your town ig your town

I’ve already mentioned all the reasons why I don’t trust Bug and Wiz. Nothing has changed

[BlackStar]

Do you think JV pushing you is scummy or not?

I don’t know. That’s why he’s null

[BlackStar]

Black what's your read on Dann

Was asking BlackStar, I hate that you're both Black

You can call me Star if that’s less confusing for you. And I just answered why I townread Damn a couple of pages ago. Look in my iso for it

Also do you consider yourself experienced

Idk kinda, but not really. I haven’t played in 5 years and I wasn’t amazing before the break. I did use 2 alts back then in addition to this account

[BlackStar]

But you said he feels townie. So if you're not sure if him pushing you is alignment indicative, wouldn't you still lean town there? Would you have listed him as a town lean if he were pushing Wiz instead of you?

It would depend on why he was pushing Wiz

[BlackStar]

I feel like a member of the town would definitely remember which people have been removed from the pool of potential scum

Um actually I want to go back to this because this also feels disingenous and just a statement to reject the pathway of "clearing" Wiz. Scum would know

THEIR KILL

was blocked, and would be hyperaware of the claimed protective why do you even remotely come back with this response if not to just keep your options open?

Because I didn’t think of that. Good point

[BlackStar]

But you said he feels townie. So if you're not sure if him pushing you is alignment indicative, wouldn't you still lean town there? Would you have listed him as a town lean if he were pushing Wiz instead of you?

It would depend on why he was pushing Wiz

Ok so what is it about his push on you that makes you think there's ill intent here?

You keep acting as if I’m saying that he’s scummy. All that I’ve said is that I don’t know if there’s ill intent or not. I’d appreciate it if you would stop putting words in my mouth

[BlackStar]

I feel like a member of the town would definitely remember which people have been removed from the pool of potential scum

Um actually I want to go back to this because this also feels disingenous and just a statement to reject the pathway of "clearing" Wiz. Scum would know

THEIR KILL

was blocked, and would be hyperaware of the claimed protective why do you even remotely come back with this response if not to just keep your options open?

Because I didn’t think of that. Good point

What did you think I was saying?

I didn’t remember how Hu Tao was cleared, just that she was cleared. So I thought it was possible that Wiz as scum could’ve forgotten about Hu Tao being cleared.

My bad lol

[BlackStar]

It’s not a joke. You’re just piling a lot on me and it’s hard to keep track of everything. I meant Black

[BlackStar]

Alright, I won't be considering that a dumb-tell because it's already been used once but you say it was a good point, how does that affect your Wiz read?

It doesn’t affect how I feel about Wiz. I was scum reading him way before that

[BlackStar]

But you said he feels townie. So if you're not sure if him pushing you is alignment indicative, wouldn't you still lean town there? Would you have listed him as a town lean if he were pushing Wiz instead of you?

It would depend on why he was pushing Wiz

Ok so what is it about his push on you that makes you think there's ill intent here?

You keep acting as if I’m saying that he’s scummy. All that I’ve said is that I don’t know if there’s ill intent or not. I’d appreciate it if you would stop putting words in my mouth

Sorry for the miscommunication. Hopefully you can understand how I'm reading your replies here. JV has pinged you as town, but he's in your null category because you're not sure if his push on you is scummy or not. When I asked you if JV pushing Wiz would've caused you to list JV as a town lean, you said that would depend on why JV was pushing Wiz. So that implies that you think there is an issue with why JV is pushing you. What is it about JV's push that makes you think it could be scum motivated?

We’re just going in circles lol. I’m town. He’s pushing for me to be eliminated. He could be misguided town or he could be scum. I don’t know which it is, so I have him as null.

Why is this something that we need to keep going back and forth on?

[BlackStar]

It doesn't really matter how far back you're scum-reading him, why does it not affect how you feel about Wiz

His posts just feel scummy to me. And isn’t it possible that a different member of the scum could have tried to carry out the kill and gotten roleblocked? If that’s the case then he still could have forgotten about the clear

[BlackStar]

You've simply disregarded everything regarding a counter-argument around Wiz, you don't hear it out and I've tested this repeatedly. You say you do but you don't, you just rehash "just feels scummy" over and over ad nauseam, I don't get the feeling that read is anywhere near genuine and feels in its entirety as a scum agenda.

I spent a huge chunk of D1 saying why I think Wiz is scummy. And when you asked me earlier I told you why again. You asked me a third time and this is is a fourth so of course I'm not going to feel like explaining myself and saying the same thing again.

[BlackStar]

I've directly countered why they would traditionally feel like you claim they do, even before catching up. I then explain logic that possibly derp-clears them in which you said was a good point but then immediately threw it all in the trash. It doesn't feel like genuine solving

And this feels like a confirmation bias tunnel.

[BlackStar]

Thanks for strawmanning everything I just said

What

[BlackStar]

Gob do you think Dann is misguided town or scum pushing you?

If they keep pushing the same way then they're scum.

Right now I lean misguided town though.

They basically just do not want to understand a different way of solving.

It seems to me like that describes your interactions with Dannflor

Actually Black is right

VOTE: BlackStar

Can you elaborate?

BlackStar had 5 votes day 1 and then the wagon ultimately failed.

Bluebug is scummy but I was tunneling around the not-voting thing a bit too much.

Fundamentally there isn't much of a difference between not-voting and being off the main wagon.

I feel like there's a pretty big difference between one person voting for people they're suspicious of and another person refusing to vote at all for the entire first day.

[BlackStar]

Sorry. Busy work week. I'll catch up soon.

Just out of curiosity, how much catching up do you have to do? You've been saying that you'll catch up for a few days now

[BlackStar]

Sorry. Busy work week. I'll catch up soon.

Just out of curiosity, how much catching up do you have to do? You've been saying that you'll catch up for a few days now

What is the point of this post?

To find out when she'll weigh in on the game? I thought that was self-explanatory

[BlackStar]

I apologize for saying it was self-explanatory. There was no need for me to be snarky about it

[BlackStar]

If BlackStar flips green the team is probably Annie/Dannflor/Andante or something

What makes you say that? If Andante is somehow scum then she deserves an Oscar lol.

[BlackStar]

And also what does the momentum have to do with it? What I mean is, are you saying you wouldn't be voting for them if momentum hadn't shifted their way or do you mean it some other way?

Wiz doesn’t make any move unless other people have already endorsed it

[BlackStar]

And also what does the momentum have to do with it? What I mean is, are you saying you wouldn't be voting for them if momentum hadn't shifted their way or do you mean it some other way?

I voted for BlackStar because I thought he was scummy. I didn't want to move that vote to Dann because I want to fade scum and I didn't think I would be able to fade Dann today

If you want to fade scum then you should be on Bug or Gob

[BlackStar]

Here’s my case against gob

In Post 1177 he says that either Merlyn or Bug are scum before he even reads the game. That does not seem like the actions of someone who’s town.

In post 1779 he adds my name to the end of Afrayed’s wagon for some reason even though I never voted for him. Andante was the hammer, so where did that even come from? He proceeds to vote for Merlyn and say it’s PoE without explaining how.

Then he makes this weird post about the IC being hypocritical.

In post 1237 he quotes the VC from when Afrayed was lynched but asks a couple of us if we were there around the time of the hammer. He was obviously just looking at those pages of the game, so there’s no point in asking us this. It comes across as a phony attempt to look like he’s trying to figure things out.

Post 1580 was baffling to me. How could not placing a single vote all Day 1 and voting for someone besides the mis-limed townie be equal actions in his eyes? It just seemed like a lazy excuse to join the wagon.

[BlackStar]

Here’s my case against gob

In Post 1177 he says that either Merlyn or Bug are scum before he even reads the game. That does not seem like the actions of someone who’s town.

In post 1779 he adds my name to the end of Afrayed’s wagon for some reason even though I never voted for him. Andante was the hammer, so where did that even come from? He proceeds to vote for Merlyn and say it’s PoE without explaining how.

Then he makes this weird post about the IC being hypocritical.

In post 1237 he quotes the VC from when Afrayed was lynched but asks a couple of us if we were there around the time of the hammer. He was obviously just looking at those pages of the game, so there’s no point in asking us this. It comes across as a phony attempt to look like he’s trying to figure things out.

Post 1580 was baffling to me. How could not placing a single vote all Day 1 and voting for someone besides the mis-limed townie be equal actions in his eyes? It just seemed like a lazy excuse to join the wagon.

This entire case could be explained by gob being bad at playing townie lol

Anyway I don't think Gob is scum and I'm starting to really doubt my read on you BlackStar. Care to join me on an Annie wagon?

VOTE: AnimatedWiz

I'd rather lim either Bug or Gob today. Even though I'm suspicious of Annie, the thing that Jackson said earlier about Annie forgetting about your clear makes me not want to go after him right now

Wait why are you casing gob but voting for bug?

I can scum read more than one person

[BlackStar]

I can scum read more than one person

You seem more confident in your Gob scumread so why not vote there?

Idk, Bug put the bare minimum amount of effort into playing and I didn’t see any reason to trust him. But since he’s getting replaced now, I might as well give his replacement a chance.

VOTE: gob

[BlackStar]

Yeah this wagon comp and speed is awful

I agree that it was really fast but the only suspicious person on the Merlyn wagon is Wiz

[BlackStar]

From where I'm standing I don't know why people are so convinced on Annie as town. When pressed they basically admitted they're just moving to whatever wagon is most likely to lim. That's not town thinking.

I mean, I'm convinced that BlackStar is just textbook wolf here.

Can you explain what I'm missing here? Is it for the same reasons Black has? Or point me to a post explaining the case if I missed it.

I don't get why people think Annie is town either. I've brought up that same point multiple times but most people don't seem to care.

The case against me seems to be that Dannflor and I town read each other so we must be scum buddies

[BlackStar]

From where I'm standing I don't know why people are so convinced on Annie as town. When pressed they basically admitted they're just moving to whatever wagon is most likely to lim. That's not town thinking.

I think you’re misunderstanding me—I have two major scumreads (you and BlackStar), and I am trying to get one of y’all eliminated. If the wagon I am currently parked on is not looking like a feasible elimination for the day, I will happily switch to the other, because regardless of which one of you goes first we still get rid of scum.

And I definitely don’t scumread Dannflor—my scumread of BlackStar is based on all the other evidence against him.

Remind us all what that evidence is again?

[BlackStar]

The case against me seems to be that Dannflor and I town read each other so we must be scum buddies

Reducing the votes on you to this is disingenuous. I'm pretty sure I'm the only one that believes this theory

gob's reason for voting me was that I wasn't on the wagon to lim afrayed. I don't even know what pisskop thinks I'm scum because he's had his vote parked on me the entire time and barely says anything.

[BlackStar]

Remind us all what that evidence is again?

You have few scumreads—almost always, you have just one that you repeatedly try to eliminate (Andante, Charles, Bug, then me), and these are almost always wagons that already exist. As soon as public opinion mostly turns against that scumread, you jump ship and try to find someone else to shift attention to.

Additionally, you seem to mainly vote based on whoever will prolong your survival, and not based on any followable logic aside from OMGUS—you admit to OMGUS being a main consideration in your reads in 1425 and then slowly try to backtrack from that as soon as other people realize how scummy that sounds. Actually, whenever anyone counters you, you immediately try to downplay and shift the meaning of what you said.

Also, your scum games from 2018 aren’t the best reason to townread you, since it’s literally been 5 years with no games since then—even if you didn’t intend to, you likely play very different from then due to exposure to new experiences and theories. Plus, you linked them yourself, which could mean you chose ones that are explicitly different from your current playstyle.

Finally, Merlyn has been defending you since D2, like in 664. I don’t think it’s irrational to see one scummy person working with another and have it compound the suspicion on both. You both seem to have found a shared target to try to push your own wagons onto, after all.

I never tried to eliminate Andante. All i said was that they were really aggressive right off the bat and I wasn;t sure what to make of that. Then people kept asking me a million times if I scum read her and I said no every time. I've scum read you since day one, so you trying to pretend that I just magically decide to pay attention to you now is BS. I still don't like Bug's slot but his replacement isn't here yet, so I'm not sure how you think I could keep pushing him. The Charles wagon existed because I created it, so once again you're distorting facts.

I explain my logic every step of the way. What you said about post 1425 is inaccurate because I've been consistent about that this entire time. I don't see why it's scummy to not trust someone who is pushing for you to die.

I posted my games because Black asked for them. I didn't read through them, I just picked whatever scum games I could find. I don't see them as evidence as anything, I'm just giving Black what they wanted.

I'm not really sure what your point about Merlyn is. I don't think I've ever defended Merlyn and I'm not voting you so how exactly are we working together?

[BlackStar]

I've scum read you since day one, so you trying to pretend that I just magically decide to pay attention to you now is BS. I still don't like Bug's slot but his replacement isn't here yet, so I'm not sure how you think I could keep pushing him.

I never said you don’t lay out foundations for future wagons—you just made far more of a push for me once the other options weren’t going to be received well. And your Bug push stopped as soon as the replacement happened because everyone else also wanted to wait on pushing Titus since the main evidence against Bug was just inactivity.

I explain my logic every step of the way. What you said about post 1425 is inaccurate because I've been consistent about that this entire time. I don't see why it's scummy to not trust someone who is pushing for you to die.

It’s scummy because it’s

only

a survival tactic—it doesn’t lead to accurate reads for the town and just reduces the town’s trust in each other. When the town subscribes to the idea of every player for themself, they lose.

Also, you spent like the next 3 posts trying to make your admission of OMGUS seem less damning and less clear. You weren’t consistent, even if you honestly thought you were.

I posted my games because Black asked for them. I didn't read through them, I just picked whatever scum games I could find. I don't see them as evidence as anything, I'm just giving Black what they wanted.

I suppose I can’t really mechanically confirm or deny this statement, just state my theory on the possibility of you cherry-picking games.

I'm not really sure what your point about Merlyn is. I don't think I've ever defended Merlyn and I'm not voting you so how exactly are we working together?

This is almost certainly because people kept on harping on you and Dann working together—before that was called out, Merlyn was already working to rehabilitate your image, and therefore couldn’t really stop helping you without it seeming like she was backing off due to the accusation alone. However, since you hadn’t helped her yet, you likely decided to not try to support her to not arouse any more suspicion for yourself.

Your point about Bug makes no sense. If that slot isn't here then how am I supposed to be pushing them? I've always scum read you and never stopped mentioning that I scum read you. It's not a new push for you.

What you said about OMGUS is wrong because it's the exact same situation as what happened early D1 with Andante. I said "I'm not sure about this person" and then you somehow take that to mean that I'm calling them scum. I didn't try to "make it seem less" damning. I've consistently said that I'm not sure about him one way or the other and yet you want to act like I've said otherwise.

Your last point is completely devoid of any evidence to back it up. You seem to just be inventing new reasons to call me scum.

The biggest issue with what you're saying right now is that you've claimed to be suspicious of me since D1 and yet all of your points are recent things that have happened after you claimed to scum read me.

[BlackStar]

I think there is a chance I’m wrong on Blackstar but much less of a chance that I am wrong on AnimatedWiz

If I am wrong I would like to not obstruct a scum elimination

I think AnimatedWiz is making some decent points and comes off as pretty towny in this 1v1

I also thought brightbluebug had a glimmer of towniness so I’m considering a BlackStar/gob/merlyn world instead of a Titus/gob/merlyn world

I also was curious what type of reactions I’d get from voting there

, I think Animated’s was towny

Anyway UNVOTE:

I would like Titus to get involved before end of day because I think I can read her

thought it would be funny

And i don’t believe in BlackStar town 100% anymore

Why did your answer change?

[BlackStar]

If someone has a way of confirming that bob is really the cop then that would be great. I think we should believe him for now

If you're Titus then I'm Tidus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H47ow4_Cmk0

[BlackStar]

@gob

Who do you scum read right now?

[BlackStar]

Your analysis of Bob is looking based on his mechanics. I'd like to see his play. Also was Hu Tao largely townread at the time of the check?

They wernt really. You had the odd player claiming a town read for one reason or another but that never stops a scum motivated misexecution going through

I scum read Hu Tao towards the end of D1, but most people definitely said that they town read her

[BlackStar]

Also baclstar why havnt you claimed yet

Because I'm at E-3 and have no reason to

[BlackStar]

Sorry. Busy work week. I'll catch up soon.

Just out of curiosity, how much catching up do you have to do? You've been saying that you'll catch up for a few days now

What is the point of this post?

To find out when she'll weigh in on the game? I thought that was self-explanatory

Aren't I conf town anyway?

You won't be conf town unless bob dies and flips town

Is there a list of claims?

Nobody else has claimed since you got soft cleared

[BlackStar]

@gob

Who do you scum read right now?

You, Jackson, i still would like to get bug too. I'll know more tomorrow though.

What are your reasons?

[BlackStar]

And what will you know tomorrow?

[BlackStar]

bug didnt like their eod1, same with jackson/charlie. Charlie i also found their opening weird, not really readable though frankly.

You, I think your voting day 1 makes no sense. You were self-voting and then jumped on someone totally inconsequential in Blackstar. It's just clear you didnt want to vote a towny with TMI. i also agree with black's logic, you were the c-wagon that failed and have resistance on your wagon.

What specifically did you not like about Bug and Charlie’s end of D1? This is like pulling teeth lol

After my self vote, I voted for Hu Tao. She was one of the main people who pushed for my wagon to go through at that point, so how could you call her inconsequential?

[BlackStar]

gob and blackstar what are your raeds on each other?

I am null on BlackStar, basically.

[BlackStar, brightbluebug, bob3141, JacksonVirgo]

I think this is a pretty rock solid PoE from the Day 1 wagon. I've explained why before but if people need another explanation I can do it again.

Brightbluebug and Jackson/Charlie were the most recent to post and be off any wagon entirely.

Charlie/Jackson I gave that slot a pass before, but they actually posted the most recent of any of the non-voters. It was only one post though.

Between the two though BBB was way more active so VOTE: brightbluebug

So this is it?

[BlackStar]

That just feels so weak.

[BlackStar]

One more question. I was the leading wagon and you were voting for me. Why would you leave that wagon to vote for Titus, who had no votes if you claim to be scum reading me? It makes no sense

[BlackStar]

gob and blackstar what are your raeds on each other?

I am null on BlackStar, basically.

[BlackStar, brightbluebug, bob3141, JacksonVirgo]

I think this is a pretty rock solid PoE from the Day 1 wagon. I've explained why before but if people need another explanation I can do it again.

Brightbluebug and Jackson/Charlie were the most recent to post and be off any wagon entirely.

Charlie/Jackson I gave that slot a pass before, but they actually posted the most recent of any of the non-voters. It was only one post though.

Between the two though BBB was way more active so VOTE: brightbluebug

So this is it?

Lol, why are you downplaying it?

Why would you think that nobody from the scum team was on the Afrayed wagon?

[BlackStar]

Everyone needs to serously ask themselves why the meryl wagon keeps failing to get traction, Whereas there are now 3 wagons pressing higher

I think it’s mostly because she’s barely around to question so people forget about her

[BlackStar]

Readwall BlackStar?

Town

Pisskop
Black
Bob3141
Hu Tao
Andante

Town Lean

JacksonVirgo

Null

Dannflor
Titus

Scum Lean

Merlyn
AnimatedWiz

Scum

gob

[BlackStar]

Vanilla Townie

[BlackStar]

Was that actually a hammer?

[BlackStar]

Everyone needs to serously ask themselves why the meryl wagon keeps failing to get traction, Whereas there are now 3 wagons pressing higher

I think it’s mostly because she’s barely around to question so people forget about her

thats how scum slip through the net

I hope you guys put her under heavier scrutiny going forward

blackstar your at e-1

Thanks

[BlackStar]

we have 12 players 3 scum. 7 to execute

So thats 2 spare townies. The question everyone needs to ask themselves, who is scum on the wagon?

whether town or scum a pure 7 town execution almsot never happens when 2 out of 9 are known to be off wagon

You making a post like this before I even flip is making me paranoid.

[BlackStar]

You seem too sure about the result

[BlackStar]

gob and blackstar what are your raeds on each other?

I am null on BlackStar, basically.

[BlackStar, brightbluebug, bob3141, JacksonVirgo]

I think this is a pretty rock solid PoE from the Day 1 wagon. I've explained why before but if people need another explanation I can do it again.

Brightbluebug and Jackson/Charlie were the most recent to post and be off any wagon entirely.

Charlie/Jackson I gave that slot a pass before, but they actually posted the most recent of any of the non-voters. It was only one post though.

Between the two though BBB was way more active so VOTE: brightbluebug

So this is it?

Lol, why are you downplaying it?

Why would you think that nobody from the scum team was on the Afrayed wagon?

[BlackStar]

even better, I haven't looked at the VCA around afraid, but I bet that's going to be pretty juicy

Dannflor and Wiz are on both mislims

[BlackStar]

if we operate under the assumption that Bob is a cop, then this game is basically already solved

I get this, but I

can't

. Based on your information, I would. :/

Can you stop with this "oh but I have secret information" nonsense. I don't care for it, claim when needed and otherwise shut up

I don’t like when people hint about stuff like this either, but you don’t need to be so harsh about it

[BlackStar]

I was town

[BlackStar]

Ok, here are some final thoughts before Night 2 starts

If you focus on Wiz, gob, and Merlyn, you’re guaranteed to hit scum. Seriously, reevaluate your feelings about Wiz. And don’t forget to continue grilling gob about why he “believed” nobody on Afrayed’s wagon was scum. Also, everyone should try to focus on people that they think are scum independent of any potential associations. Forcing associations before flips hasn’t been working out too well.

After a while I started wondering if Dannflor was actually scum that pocketed me and wanted points for defending me before my flip. Black’s paranoia towards him rubbed off on me a bit lol. Merlyn also made a couple of posts defending me that gave me a similar feeling.

That’s all I have to say. Good luck, town!

[BlackStar]

Good game, everyone

[BlackStar]

I felt like your posts came across as disingenuous, Wiz. It just seemed like you were trying way too hard to come across as concerned and level-headed at all moments in time, which most members of the town aren't able to manage. But you did a great job of adapting to the situation and trying to offer up other targets of suspicion.