Mini 698 - Georgetown Mafia - Game over

[Apothecary]

/Confirm.

[Apothecary]

Sorry for not being here for a while.
Are we past random voting?

[Apothecary]

Sorry I've been off for too long.
Are we past Random Voting, or are we working with tangible evidence?

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It kinda sucks that we're arguing over whether or not we should be allowed to post in pictures rather than words. When we're playing mafia!

just to get discussion moving

Vote: Corvuus

[Apothecary]

I simply chose Corvuus because it was a random vote. There was no malicious intent intended. But I'm a little confused about Primate's Vendiagram. Does the fact I'm in a seperate bubble mean my allegiance is undecided?

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I did find it kind of odd SC didn't try to defend himself from Primate's accusations. But I don't know if that's a sign of a passive scum or a passive townie.

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Sometimes it's difficult to post anything worthwhile. But I'll try.
It is difficult, yet not impossible, to interpret what Primate says. This, some would argue, is tantamount to withholding information, thoughts etc. However, he has outlined his suspects.
I haven't really posted much about my suspicions, but I think that Corvuus now is either scum trying to rile up people against townies who don't post much, or an extremist townie.

[Apothecary]

Sorry I haven't been posting much recently. I have been a bit busy.
I see how I appear a bit scummy, I haven't been posting much of consequence.
I can't really say much that Llamafluff has already said, but I think perhaps Corvuus is scummy. He does seem to try and get people to bandwagon Primate. Yes, it is annoying that he posts in images all the time, but it's a little silly that we should lynch him for that...
But pretty much I'm just repeating what people are saying already.

[Apothecary]

Ythill, why am I being called RX now?
Just out of interest, I would like to know how I appear scummy to other players. Just so I can defend myself, and help the town out later.

[Apothecary]

Okay, thank you Ythill for explaining that.
I personally called Corvuus out because he was in favour of voting someone because they were being annoying and, I admit, a little anti town. I thought he looked scummy then, and personally I think you are using posts later on in the game where he's appearing more town as a comparison.
And I actually asked if we were working with tangible evidence, not asking people to present to me.
When I said I wanted discussion to get moving, it was because we were stuck with people arguing over the pictures, and the game had stagnated.
Personally, now, I think Corvuus is town, a little extremist, but still town.

Unvote

[Apothecary]

Wait, what?
I've responded to your case! In the final few posts of the previous page!
What purpose does your vote serve when I've already answered?

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Personally, after reading through that post, I do believe that SC is scum. I don't want to basically reiterate what you've already said, as that seems a little pointless. You outline good arguements on everyone.

Macavity has been doing a lot of discussion since the beginning of the game, so I believe he's townie. He picks up on a lot of points and gets people talking. I think he's been doing a lot of scum hunting.

I do think Zeppo is breathing a little much into SC coming to MM's defense. But he's just searching for any tells that might help further the game. He's also quite analytical of posts at times.

Also, I still think that Cephrir is scum. Especially if you read page 3.

[Apothecary]

Well, on page 3 he tried to pull a quicklynch on Evilgorrilaz (when he was playing), and when prompted to give a reason, he simply said "later". Personally, I believe that's a little stupid. I believe (when you're pas the random voting stage) that you have to give your reasons to vote on someone. Keeping them concealed and not telling pretty much leaves most others (like me) thinking there is no reasoning behind it, or it might be a scum at work, trying to scrape a quick kill.
He then backs behind a shield of "I did it to get reactions" and "to get us out of the random voting stage".
That's just a little suspect for me. Or maybe I'm just overly paranoid.

[Apothecary]

Ythill, are these votes to pressure Atlas, or to actually lynch him?

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Wait, for people claiming Doctor, is there actually a doctor role to claim?
I'm confused as at the beginning, it doesn't specifically if there are any special roles in this game.

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Personally, I think all doctor claims are to be viewed with UTMOST suspicion. If that person lives thorugh the night, and there was a kill, I'd be a bit suspicious...

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Of course, we'd never know if there was a doctor in this set up unless the doctor died, or if there was a cop in the setup.

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Alright then. I don't believe SC's claim. But I don't believe he's a scum either, but a townie hoping that the claim will shield him from the lynch.

I am however concerned with Ythill concentrating on Atlas. It just seems to be a bit odd how he wants more people to vote him, when I believe there are people who need more pressure.

[Apothecary]

No, I'm just trying to show an objective view point. Yes, I view claims with suspicion, but I can choose what I believe that person might be. To Ythill, I wasn't asking you to change your vote. I was just suggesting that there may be scummier people out there and that you shouldn't try to start a bandwagon. But I'm quite suspicious of the quick swing to voting me as a response to my feelings.

[Apothecary]

Alright then. I personally believe he was just shielding himself from the pressure and decided that it was in his best interests to avoid an immediate lynch. Of course, that is also a defense for scum players, and now I see how that was a bit stupid to suggest that. I apologize, if that's what you want.

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It is kind of ironic that SC says apologies don't change anything, then apologizes in the same post.
I thought those things because I want to have, as I said before, an objective and pragmatic viewpoint. I suppose that clouded my judgement a bit.

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There was nothing that suggested anything. I was just offering various views of the same thing.

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I simply offered an alternate viewpoint. I don't see why this is arousing this much angst and suspicion. If we all jumped on someone when they offered an alternate view, we'd never get past day 1. I just passed a comment that may or may not have shown others that there isn't a rigid set of scumtells. I thought that was part of the game, to suggest things.

[Apothecary]

Ha! I'm bankrupting my credibility! Most of us have done that already in this game! Right now you lot are just grasping at straws for quicklynches! That's pretty self destructive in itself.

[Apothecary]

Okay. Thanks for explaining why I'm getting a little attention. I simply changed my mind. Perhaps I felt a little differently for him on my third post on the matter. I felt a little pity for him, because I thought he might, just might, have actually been a townie. But perhaps I was right with my first idea.

[Apothecary]

When I made that statement about grasping straws, I was saying that you're going for an easy way out of today. I wasn't making any reference to, ah, "Strawmen". I was merely being a little bit defiant and angry. I think if you breathe to much into that SC, then I think that's a sign of desperation, trying to keep me as the prime suspect.

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Okay. After reading the wiki article, I would just like to say I was not "Strawmanning". I said you were grasping at straws. In other words, looking for any, no matter how small, tells or give aways. Basically, you've just been a gigantic idiot, SC.

[Apothecary]

But that's just it! When I posted my suspicion, I was offering an alternative viewpoint! Most other people are making this seem like a massive deal. I never made anyone else's arguments seem any less valid!

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Elmo, reasons on what?

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Elmo, I explained this! It was merely another viewpoint that I incorrectly structured.

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What I meant was is that it is believable he could be townie. I didn't make a lot of sense there, and that's probably where all this drama came from.

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Now, I currently believe he is scum due to his attitude towards me and saying claiming "vanilla townie is suicide". This does seem a little scummy, as it made him look as if he was just claiming a power role to protect himself when it's pretty obvious he can't back it up.

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Just out of interest Jazzmyn, what is your scale out of?
I still stand by what I said, SC. If I was at L-1 and I was a townie or scum, I'd still claim townie. Claiming a power role to survive immediatly will bring nothing but trouble later on for defending yourself.
You know what I'm really surprised about? I'm still only on L-3. This probably means that both the scum have decided to vote me, and one overly exurberant townie is joining the party. Does that seem difficult to believe? Why don't we go one for five pages of needless crap debating if this is newb townie or a frakking scumtell? Sounds like one hell of a game to me!

[Apothecary]

With this number of people, I assumed that there'd only be two.
But a power role should keep himself concealed. To reveal yourself at Day one is just like signing your own death warrant. You've practically doomed yourself, regardless of whether or not you are a power role!

And if you are the power role, then congrats. You just reduced your value for the town. You'll have to choose whether to protect yourself at night, or to risk your life for someone else. If you had remained secret, you would have been a damn sight more useful.

[Apothecary]

So three scum is the common number in this set up.
Thank you for informing me.

[Apothecary]

Why did I think the scum were the ones voting me?
I thought others would see it as an easy lynch, and so just follow it up.
Hell, I thought I was an easy lynch!

[Apothecary]

Looks like the wagon on me is still rolling after all.

Corvuus, I didn't vote you for being extremist against Primate. I was voting because I thought we needed to move the game on. You're making look like I was calling you out on it. And if I recall, I said it was difficult but not impossible to interpret primate's posting. I can see what you mean by it, as I said I was trying to get a reaction from you. But most votes are used to get reactions. I never attacked you for offering an alternate viewpoint. I offered my views on you in post 227. I also said it was "silly to lynch" you over such a trivial thing.
Also, that particular suspicion was already noted by LlamaFluff in 275. I later came to the conclusion that you were a townie.

I'll post my two suspects when I get back.

[Apothecary]

So you're saying that a random vote can't also be a vote that gets a reaction? I chose someone that I wanted to get a a response out of. It wouldn't have been any different if I had chosen others like Macavity.
What kind of reaction did I want? I wanted to see if you would react with an OMGUS countervote, or if you would calmly dismiss it.

I never said it was hard for me to choose my top 2 scum. I just said I'd do it when I got back, as I had to leave at that minute. But now I'm really going to look through my suspects, and carefully choose.

Personally I suspect:
Ythill: There's definitly something odd in the way he's dragged out the discussion between him and LF. He
And Stranger Coug. He wanted people to believe that I was accusing him of Strawman arguments. And he claimed a power role on Day one. I'm not buying that. He also brought up Kokusho's gambit, which is a load of crap in a situation like this.

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I'm not satisfied with your attitude, Ythill. I'd rather go for no lynch at day one than lynch a townie. But hey, that's your choice.

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Oh yeah Ythill, cause two townies dead in one day is certainly better!
But of course you wouldn't care about that, because you're scum.

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When did I say two people were scum?
And as to what I'll claim: Townie.
And when you do lynch me, you'll see your mistake.

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Well, I would, but everyone's pretty damn convinced. But I am at L-1 Ythill.
Personally, I still believe you're scum, but I'm probaly reacting badly from your methods. I'll still claim my real role: Townie.
I'm not going to claim a power role.
I'll defend myself by saying that perhaps I haven't been the clearest or easiest player to follow in this game, and that certainly hasn't helped me one bit. Perhaps a lynch on Day one is more pragmatic. And if that lynch is me, then so be it. It at least removes one suspect.
So yeah, I'm pretty resigned to what's going to follow. I don't want it to happen, but knowing how badly I've played and argued it's going to happen.
If I survive today, then wow.
And I never said a Day one lynch is anti town. But having an extra townie alive next day could help.

[Apothecary]

Okay then. I'll fight. But I would like to see the cases against me, sort of condensed down. I would like to keep playing, and if you guys want me to keep going, then I will.

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Alright. I admit to all three of your reasons.
When I misrepresented "claiming vanilla townie is suicide" I thought you meant at anytime. I did not read the part about "At L-1". That's me simply screwing up, and also trying to discredit you. Claiming a power role is a good defense, but can cause problems later on.

As for a no Lynch day 1, I admit that does sound a little weak. I just don't like the idea of sacrificing two people a day to get anywhere, when if we could lose one person that would be much preferable, with the extra voting power. But I also realise that having a lynch also has a possibilty of catching a scum, and many people would take that chance. It's probably the more pragmatic option. I also said that, cause I'm the one up for the lynch.

I actually don't understand the last one. Is that where I wrote about role claiming "making it practically impossible to use it effectivly" or something else. Please elaborate.

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Wait. Where I said that I that I'd be suspicious of someone claiming the doctor role, and that I'd be very suspicious of a doctor surving two days after the claim. That's just my paranoia.

I don't want to lynch you, as if you really are the doctor, that'd be pretty bad for us.

[Apothecary]

In the beginning I didn't feel commited to the game and didn't really get into it, just watching it for a while, and not posting. This was lurking and I should have made an effort to be more a part of this game. (Points 1, 4 & 2)

My fence sitting of SC in the beginning was because I, again, didn't really take part in the game, and I didn't want to commit at that point. Plus the way it was worded did make it look a lot weaker.
I meant he could've been a confident that the accusations wouldn't lead up to a lynch. (point 3)

I often feel really threatened in these sorts of games when people press me. But 176 was a post because people asked why I voted for Corvuus. (Point 5)

Post 227, where I was defending Primate was because I didn't like the idea that we should get rid of him for his odd posting style. I also thought that Corvuus was also making an attack against me for not posting more. (point 6)

As for my "ingenious suspicions" I never posted anything agaisnt you. I was just concerned that you were barking up the wrong tree. But that statement about SC being a vanilla fakeclaiming was a pile of crap, I know. That was a stupid belief I had, and I just feeling a little pity for him, because he could've been town. (point 7 & 8).

As for my illogical defences, I am not exactly a veteran player at this, so I am not very good creating an argument to defend myself (as evidenced now). I also failt to read fully throught some posts, and this causes problems. (points 9 & 10)

The argument for a no-lynch is just me being a conservative. I would prefer to only lose one town player, than lose two in one day. But I do understand that it is the more pragmatic approach to win the game. I'm still rather naive in this game so I often go for a no lynch instead of a townie lynch (ie, me).

I hope this is enough, but if not, okay then, fire away.

[Apothecary]

Sorry everyone for the delay. A lot of time consuming things have been going on.
To Ythill, I didn't really feel involved with the game, I just saw it as something to do when I felt like it. At first I didn't, and I just really didn't feel like posting.

As to your second point, where did I admit that I was reading? I said I didn't like being pressured, and that 176 was a response to my actions.

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To Ythill: I didn't want to commit an opinion on SC because I didn't want to be put under pressure, as I said earlier and I didn't want to commit properly.

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There really is no excuse or reason I can give to cover that.
To Ythill, I was just lazy and didn't read before hand.

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Just out of interest qwints, how would you defend yourself in a situation like this?

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Yeah, I'm kind of confused here as well. Not that I'm complaining or anything.
To Llamafluff, I'm a little cautious when it comes to waving accusations now. I still suspicious of SC, but he's untouchable for now, since his power claim. As for a possible second... I'm going to carefully weigh up some people's actions.

Mac, which wagon are you refering to now.

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Wait, Ceph, I thought you wanted to lynch me? I mean, you seemed pretty content with all of it.

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This is quite an astonishing turn of events, in the couple of days I've been gone. It appears that everyone seems to have been swung rather quickly over to SC's bandwagon. Why is this? He's claimed doctor, so we should be a little more careful about our lynch here.

To qwints, why did you vote me after a single day had gone by where I failed to post? That seemed pretty odd. Was it just because we were nearing the deadline?

Where's Corvuus?

[Apothecary]

What role do you think tracker meant?
I'm a little confused about Mac's suspicions of me. Could you explain why you believe that?

[Apothecary]

It seems that we're pushing the Cephrir case along very quickly. Shouldn't we give him alittle more time to try and defend himself.

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I can see that people are pretty convinced about the arguments against him. I'm a little paranoid that this happened a little quickly though. The case on OMGL seemes a little less convincing. As to Macavity's vote on me, I don't know what to think. I think the case isn't the wisest one here.

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When is a better time to be motivated, Ceph?

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/Checks in.

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Honestly, I don't like how fast the Cephrir case has gone. It just seemed to start up right at the beginning of the day, and it's been running ever since. I can't say I particularly like him, but I'm apprehensive about lynching him so fast. One thing I will complain about is his lack of defense now. Same sort of thing happened to me yesterday though...

Llamafluff seems to be town. He's been constantly hunting, so that could be a good sign.

Corvuus I would imagine is town. He's been posting consistently, projecting his suspicions and backing them up.

Elmo... He's been a strong pusher for the Ceph wagon. I don't think he's scum, but I strongly disliked the wagon.

Don't know about Qwints or Jazz, and I feel that OMGL has pushed two wagons very well. He could be a townie who's just made connections we haven't seen.

As for you. I find it interesting that you still persist with the Wagon against me. I don't find it scummy, but I don't like it. One thing that niggled me was the long post you made drawing connections between me and SC, and posted afterwards exclaiming you wouldn't do the same on Ceph. That seemed very.... Interesting.

[Apothecary]

It jsut shows where you stand on certain issues more clearly. But it looked to me (biased viewpoint, of course) that you were attacking me, and keeping the focus on me, rather than post on Cephrir as well.

I never said anything about building a case, or defending him. Just showing us where you stood at that point. You certainly showed where you stand on me. It'd be nice to see that clarity on the main suspect of most people.

[Apothecary]

Woah, I've been off a little too long!
I don't think a self hammer would help anyone.
Ceph has said that we should keep an eye on OMGL and qwints, but I'd definitley like to know why he suspects qwints.

[Apothecary]

Okay, so is that another power role we lost?

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I'm simply wondering, ML. Afterall, what am I meant to post at the beginning of the day?

What did the scum players stand to gain from this? Did they see him as a major threat, since he did seem to get people rallied together on a suspect and get them lynched pretty quickly.

Going to have a quick look back over the previous few pages, and I'll post later.

[Apothecary]

So essentially, you and Mac are going after me because I don't have anything to contribute at this time.
Great. I'm personally seeing you as scum at the moment. You voted me when I hadn't posted for a day in post 656, when you wanted me to defend myself. I personally think you NK'ed Ythill, after he began a "Smear Campaign" against you at the end of day one.
so

Vote qwints

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Vote for someone you think is scum, not someone who has very little to contribute.

[Apothecary]

I don't frakking care you're on L-1.
Your little line of reasoning in your previous post is so flawed, and if you can't see that, you're beyond all hope.

And I'm so sorry I've been busy recently. I guess I should stop being a student then.

[Apothecary]

Actually, I was referring to your first line about "active lurking". Don't try and misinterpret what I said.
I apologise if the amount of work I get fluctuates. I guess nearing examination time has left me little time to do much else.

I did watch BSG, but I haven't seen it recently. Certain mannerisms seem to stick with me.

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Actually, sorry ML. I thought you voted me.
Jazzmyn, who are you suspicious of?

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I know. But it just felt like you were suspecting me because I didn't post much, or contribute greatly.
I'll try and change that.

[Apothecary]

Why hasn't Jazzmyn posted? It's been a days, and we all want to hear what she has to say.

[Apothecary]

I'll have to

Unvote

. We pushed a little close when we lynched SC, and I don't want to lynch you and find out that you're the real deal.

[Apothecary]

I'm not entirely sure of qwints' claim. But I don't want to mislynch a possible doctor.
Jazz, who do you think is scum?

I don't know who to suspect at this moment, aside from qwints. But he's claimed at the moment, so we can't touch him.

[Apothecary]

MOD

I will not be here from thursday (12th) till Sunday (15th) due to unforeseen circumstances.
Apologies.

Noted.

[Apothecary]

I'm not liking how qwints is eqauting "Not information" with "someone being scummy". No I'm not refering to the point you made about me acting scummy. It's your attitude when dealing with people who post sparsely.

I don't like the reasoning that bussing a partner would win over people to think you are town. It's risky, and it would rely on the any surviving scum to not slip up, and screw up their chances of victory. And no-one seemed to respond favourably to SC anyway.

I'm inclined to agree with Corvuus on you. I don't like your claim and , as I said, I don't like your attitiude. So:

Vote: qwints

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As for the others:
Jazzmyn: Posts rarely, but when she does, it's quite insightful. I'm leaning towards Town with her.

Macavity Lock: I think his suspicions of me are misplaced, but he seems to be a Town. Not as much as I believe Jazzmyn is, but probably town.

Llamafluff: I'm interested in the fact he doesn't believe two scum would choose the same role. He could be right of, course, but I'm still suspicious of you. Probably town.

Corvuus: He's made his points against you. I don't know what to make of him, but I hope he's town.

Elmo: A little quiet as of late, but generally I think he's town.

I normally only suspect one person at a time. I don't like to draw connections while my prime suspect hasn't been lynched. I still suspect you but if you flip town, I'll definitly have to reevaluate my beliefs.

[Apothecary]

I said I was never sure, and I said your attitude set me against you. That's why I voted. I am oppurtunistic. To be honest, everyone here is.

[Apothecary]

Sorry I've been away so long. I got back late last night.
TO Qwints: I'm attacking you because I think you're the scummiest player. I may be interpreting you incorrectly, but that's the vibe I'm getting.

I, like you, would have no viable suspects for Day 2's lynch. I'm looking at other people now but...

[Apothecary]

Qwints, I'm not liking how you seem to be jumping from person to person. First off, you put a lot of pressure on me and then, seemingly out of nowhere, jump onto MacavityLock. After less than a page later, you switch your vote to LlamaFluff. I know you claimed you would push a wagon on him if there was support, but jeez... Right now, I feel my vote is vindicated.

[Apothecary]

Apologies for being offline for a while.
Been very busy for a while, and might not be able to continue the game. If so I'll request a replacement.

[Apothecary]

Apologies everyone, but I have to call in a replacement. Life has become rather busy. It was fun playing with you all.