Mini 2307 | Songs from Glee! | Endgame

[PenguinPower]

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: kittytacky

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pls no wallpost

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Ooh, deflecting.

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true sheeping is skill/confidence based, not ai.

[PenguinPower]

true sheeping is skill/confidence based, not ai.

In your opinion what exactly IS AI in Mafia?

I think it's entirely player/context dependent and you can't just say "scum do this" and "town do this."

Game would be on auto if that was the case.

Look at the votes, how wagons are built, think about motivations for the way they rise and fall, and the circumstances around the elimination.

[PenguinPower]

How do you best navigate Day 1? I'm sure you know my main and that I struggle with Day 1 in general.

I think it's common to struggle/hate D1.

I like to play around wagons since votes are the only impactful thing, especially in 9p since scum are disincentivized from bussing.

[PenguinPower]

want to setup solve someone? I'm clearly incapable of doing it on a kindle

How do you expect to “setup solve” a closed setup with zero info?

Also, why is this what you want to focus on?

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there's probably at least one vanilla townie

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I'm just trying to do something that's useful for d1 because you guys are just chatting for now while I'm actually trying to solve

You have done zero solving.

Solve the players not the setup.

[PenguinPower]

Oh yay. Substantive pagetop.

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Is RN new?

How do you best navigate Day 1? I'm sure you know my main and that I struggle with Day 1 in general.

[PenguinPower]

sideeyeing PP because it felt like they were just throwing easy shade at iavh but they havent voted there. PP, are you scumreading iavh or just trying to push them to be more productive?

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VOTE: kkfc

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hmm....skygazer could actually be scum...interesting

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well - unless you're skitter or pooky you probably shouldn't meta read me

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but feel free to expand on your n=1 reasoning

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i feel like IAVH is just dropping tons of "traditionally scummy behavior" and i feel like an april join date is that sweet spot where people generally know better than to drop obvious scum tells. they also havent really adjusted to pressure which reads as not-nervous.

do you think i'm wrong that if IAVH is town then scum would jump on them?

scum could also be whiteknighting them!

[PenguinPower]

i mean - the answer is no, scum could jump on them as an easy push....but, early D1 wagons almost never lead to an elim so now seems like a weird time to do that.

conversely, iavh is someone that scum could come in and do exactly what you're doing now! that has a bit more benefit given my early d1 wagon comment above + buddying + attempted townpoints

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and like you sideeyed me and asked me a question but them seemingly did nothing with it and certainly didn't engage with me on it so that just seems like a nothing question to throw shade

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should i just keep posting so this whole page is an animated gif of a penguin working out on the tokyo rail system?

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I think people are being too hard on IAVH. It's 6 pages in and he has a quite jocular/trollish playstyle, and being a :troll: is NAI.

The site throws an error when you try to make a message with the troll emoji btw.

If he's Town he's not doing himself any favors.

why are you still voting kt then?

[PenguinPower]

Why Delta?

143 feels like a scum post. 123 also looks kinda LAMIST. At the moment I'm perceiving IAVH as an "easy target" so I don't like Delta's vote there. And Delta's getting back from V/LA today so I thought it'd be a good time to drop some pressure

why you ignore your bestie's question about oopsie?

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well you ruined my page but i guess that's on me for quoting you

[PenguinPower]

While OopsieDaisy looks back at KatyKimFanClub's last game there were similar vibes in which kkfc was scum
what places them near top

While OopsieDaisy looks back at KatyKimFanClub's last game there were similar vibes in which kkfc was scum
what places them near top

at top not near top sorry

[PenguinPower]

*looks at title*

I converse in memes. Doesn’t mean it’s dismissive.

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you can certainly try to

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i feel like IAVH is just dropping tons of "traditionally scummy behavior" and i feel like an april join date is that sweet spot where people generally know better than to drop obvious scum tells. they also havent really adjusted to pressure which reads as not-nervous.

do you think i'm wrong that if IAVH is town then scum would jump on them?

i mean i literally brought the subject up again here

that addresses why you don't find them scummy - it doesn't address my answer to your question unless you want to reach

(i also started our convo backup...if you actually cared about my response why didn't you respond directly)

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oopsie can be town

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oh, i guess not...missed the first post

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VOTE: kkfc

hmm....skygazer could actually be scum...interesting

@PP is there a correlation between these two posts?

do you think there's one?

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If I'm following your logic, you think Skygazer and I are the scumteam then?

nope

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there's no correlation

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if anything i would pair sky with iavh, but think sky is less likely scum than i did when i posted that

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who is setting you up and how?

[PenguinPower]

UNVOTE:

don't want an errant hammer whilst talking

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: KKFC

because of 202 or....?

[PenguinPower]

Unrelated to game ---

Sometimes I see posts made to the thread between the time I started writing a post and when I submit and sometimes I don't. Is there a known reason for this? Like if I have multiple tabs of the same thread open or?

it's called a preview edit (p-edit) and it's intentional so you don't actually hammer if you don't mean to or need to address something that was posted while you were writing

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202 prompted me to reread their iso and it wasnt as fine as i remembered

what wasn't so fine?

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Intent to hammer

UNVOTE: KKFC

As much as KKFC is my strongest scum read right now, I like seeing how a day develops and it wouldn't surprise me if El actually hammered.

P-edit: Ohh someone else unvoted for me, I'm fine staying on the wagon now.

VOTE: KKFC

[PenguinPower]

as of right now i think scum is in kkfc/random nurse/IAVH/Delta

[PenguinPower]

but I don't really see what giving my reads this early would really do.

allow us to ask why and....advance the gamestate.

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Wasn't that the point of the wagon in the first place? to force me to react?

no

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well - i should say "not entirely"

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who said i did?

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Wasn't that the point of the wagon in the first place? to force me to react?

no

If you're not voting me for a reaction then you're voting me because you think I'm scum, right?

or possibly to see other reactions to your wagon and how it builds vs your competing wagon

...possibly

[PenguinPower]

what if it's not a timing tell but based on the content that was expressed

what if...

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i'm getting more and more okay with a katy yeet

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I'm saying you should have the same conclusion for timing tells between two players right?

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katy, if you were forced to vote right now who would you vote?

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so why aren't you voting?

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tbh your defensiveness is fairly scummy

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i'm not sure why you think everything i say is a "gotcha" but that comes across as nervousness

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yes, and i am greener so i win

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i'm actually looking forward to not accidentally seeing information that compromises a game or accidentally posting in a locked thread or accidentally banning someone

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perhaps i am saying too much

it's ok...you weren't thinking when you made that post

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VOTE: katy

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Why'd you want to change it?

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KKFC gives me more null pings than IAVH but no actual scum pings. IAVH town tho.

Why? I really disagree they're doing anything in the town interest right now so to see someone outright labelling them town is weird to me.

Agree with this pretty much. I could see a nullread on IAVH but it's hard for me to give evidence or imagine a reason for him to be town at this point in the game.

Not Voting

- Deltabreedy,

KatyKimFanClub

p-edit

yeah...

[PenguinPower]

you ever gonna vote?

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it's like oopsie is my twin

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would super love more vote counts and participation from some players

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is iavh at 3 votes now?

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VOTE: iavh

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that's e-1 to be clear

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well - now you can hammer

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so much twilight analysis

can we not just troll?

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no - everyone

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except elements and those who haven't posted

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so not everyone

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I guess I'll stop talking now

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the worst pizza ive ever had was something my work catered; it was squash, broccoli and red onion, no tomato sauce, only cheddar cheese, and the dough was both under and overcooked with random pockets of extreme sugar

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mod still has 11 hours until he's due for a prod

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as if people ever listen to the reads of the dead

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words of wisdom to come post game

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if only we had devices with which to input information that could be saved and revisited at later dates

if only...

[PenguinPower]

should have used penguins

[PenguinPower]

I received Delta's message last night. Don't think there's any downside in not sharing since it's just a green flip's reads and it gives Delta a death speech of sorts.

"I believe we're the same alignment, and I think we should be incredibly cautious of PP.
I think there is a decent chance that KKFC is town despite what I said yesterday, which is mostly vibes.
I plan on looking hard within my null pile tomorrow, and I hope that I can trust in your support on that.
If I'm unsure, then I do trust that I can sheep you. If I'm wrong on THAT then idk gg I guess

Verstappen leads tomorrow by lap 8, btw."

I'm not sure how much I'll be around today but I wanna ISO PP, he was my biggest townread yesterday but when I look at my reasoning it mostly just amounts to vibes so I need to develop my read there, especially with what Delta's saying here.

lol - delta's whole reason for scum me was "vibes" so i guess you decided you lost the vibes battle?

[PenguinPower]

PP killing the one person most sus of him would be pretty on the nose but idk

lol - yes, i only take the most obvious courses of action point to me. it works out well.

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kitty - what's your favorite type of ice cream

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i'm somewhat annoyed there were only five votecounts yesterday

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Probably best to stop talking about it.

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i kinda want random nurse to do stuff today...very underwhelming iso and vote record.

VOTE: random nurse

[PenguinPower]

Honestly though I think I'm drawn to suspecting PP more than others because he is experienced as playing Scum. Paranoia is making me wary of him.

So vote me?

Why don't you vote?

[PenguinPower]

it's your lack of taking a hard stance this game that's making me vote you tbh

[PenguinPower]

kitty - what's your favorite type of ice cream

There's that kind of packaged ice cream that is a sort of... mix of vanilla and chocolate with some very tasty chunks inside, with chocolate poured over it and also nuts.

that's more vanilla than I like...what's it called?

[PenguinPower]

I mean - I expect you to vote in a game that revolves around voting.

Yes.

[PenguinPower]

Cool - just realize that you are actively harming the game state similar to the person that you lambasted yesterday.

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You expect me to have a hard stance in a game of less than 700 posts?

This warrant further exploration though since you've used it as a metric....how many posts do you think the average 9p game has in it?

[PenguinPower]

In the interest of being a little more decisive, I'm going to make a few assumptions to help me try to solve the game from there. This isn't really something I've tried before but in a smaller game it might be helpful?

Assumptions:
1) There was at least one scum on my wagon.
2) There was at least one scum on IAVH wagon.
3) Between the two wagons, it was more likely for scum to be on my wagon since it was earlier and the IAVH wagon seemed more likely to happen (maybe circular logic but still)
4) The scumteam was not on both wagons.

People on my wagon: Daisy, iavh, Skygazer, PP
People on IAVH wagon: Delta, KKFC, Elements, PP, Daisy

I think I can throw out a Daisy/PP team, but I might be suspect of one of them individually.
Does a Skygazer/Elements team make sense so far? Going to think about that overnight.

Sorry - was this referring to the eod vc or...what?

Because if you are saying there was zero scum on both wagons all day I'm going to just laugh...if I could review the wagons.

tbc - I am irritated at the lack of vote counts specifically because it hinders doing stuff like this, but I appreciate it.

[PenguinPower]

Cool - just realize that you are actively harming the game state similar to the person that you lambasted yesterday.

I think if you were Town you would know better.

What do you mean by this, RN?

He's shading me as scum but I'm not technically scum so he can keep his options open because one day and 700 posts is a ridiculously low amount of content to do absolutely anything with.

[PenguinPower]

That both makes more sense and is more likely.

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elements isn't voting kitty

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oh...ok

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Kitty is such a blah vote.

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bless you

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not as helpful as I thought. strongly doubt the iavh wagon is pure, but I guess there exists that possibility.

probably one on, one off. happy staying on RN now.

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kitty is a bad vote

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shocking you scum read the two people on your wagon with no further comment

simply shocking

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you said you'd be back to read through and answer questions, not provide further explanation so....no twisting of words needed!

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mmmm

no

no lol no

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i like to think i'm pretty good at detecting the subtleties of scum!KT play after misreading town!him as scum multiple times before...I don't think scum!KT ever makes that post about iavh being +town d1, and i think, despite limited activity, the actual content kt is producing is more than he would have as scum.

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so in the end you still have nothing more than "gut" despite me "twisting your words."

where's my wall of text...I feel so left out.

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how am I trying to control the game?

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so trying to get people to take action to support their stances, of which I did not comment or try to influence, is controlling the game and not just...trying to get them to take action to support THEIR stated stances...

got it.

[PenguinPower]

scum!PP does neither of those things which in the case doesn't really matter because I am doing neither of those things

uh oh, I must be scum

[PenguinPower]

I think you're scum due to a combination of your lack of doing anything yesterday, being off the iavh wagon, keeping your options as open as possible until you were voted and then snap calling both of those players scum with no backing beyond gut, and being extremely defensive.

you thinking I'm trying to control/manipulate the game is a very small part of why I think you're scum

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not your activity - you not doing anything when you were here

and yes, as I have previously stated, I think one scum was on and one scum was off and of the off I think you're the most likely followed by skygazer.

we're not on day 1 anymore but you continue to be "gut"

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this is likely an unproductive exercise but imma keep talking with you anyway

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Why is asking people to vote scum indicative?

I feel like it's manipulative, like you're trying to get them to DO something they're otherwise unsure about. Especially so when the person you're asking struggles bad during Day 1.

You seem to be a lot more concerned about PP being scum for doing this over me, when I was very much employing the same tactic of getting the people who were hesistant about voting to vote. Why do I get a free pass for this but PP doesn't?

cuz you aren't voting him

[PenguinPower]

were both scum on wagon yesterday or do you think one was off?

[PenguinPower]

well, then it's down to rn, sky, and kitty.

it is 99% not kitty.

so it's rn or sky.

[PenguinPower]

So who do you want to vote?

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UNVOTE:

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I really would like kitty and oopsie to take stance here

kkfc, why did you come in voting kitty when you have oopsie and rn as scum reads at the end of yesterday?

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I meant vote, but thanks

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K. I kind wanna hammer rn so kitty can you vote there?

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mmm....help me understand

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kkfc, why did you come in voting kitty when you have oopsie and rn as scum reads at the end of yesterday?

Don't want to hammer RN while he's on V/LA

this doesn't answer my question. I meant at the beginning of Day 2.

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sure would be nice to have an official vote count with 12 hours remaining....

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mmm....help me understand

The wallposts when pressured made actual sense even if they attacked me. Like they felt solvy or at least question y. And RN doesn't have any major sins to me.

so why oopsie?

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would be great if rn could check in before deadline...I'll hammer in about 4 hours unless he decides to pop in and chat

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alright - I'm going to bed and it doesn't seem like anyone is going to do anything to change the gamestate.

VOTE: rn

[PenguinPower]

gg and thanks for modding RH (and implosion).

Wouldn’t have crumbed so obviously if I had known that my role was known to be in the game!