Open 99: Mayo Clinic (Game Over!) before 703
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Wall-E Mafia Scum
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Then whatever order we claim in D1, we do the opposite D2, and then find a third lineup for D3...Kiro wrote:
Maybe... my first impression however, is that the scum can wait to see who claimed doing what first, and thus make an appropriate lie that incriminates them less or shifts blame onto someone else. Knowing that there will be liars in that group will just lead Town on a wild goose chase.Wall-E wrote:I think players should be forced to claim targets each day starting tomorrow morning. Thoughts?
Gonna think about it some more.
This might take too much coordination.
Why the vote on Kiro?[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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Wall-E Mafia Scum
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Scenario: The vigs claim. We townie docs all divide our protects over them secretly and randomly (coinflips work), a doc dies that night, the vigs have a pool of 10, of which three are scum, to vig from amongst. The mafia doc is protecting one of those, so the odds are 2/9 to kill a mafia (since one of the scum will be invulnerable: addendum: there is the chance both vigs target the same player and beat the protect, but that's longshot territory). 2/9 odds are fairly good, imo.
I dunno. What says a math person? Anyone here a math person?[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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EBWOP: 2/8 chance to hit a mafia (-1 dead town doc, -3 mafia, one of whom is near unkillable)
1/4 chance to hit mafia is pretty good. Better than 1/11, in a normal scenario with no vig claims.
There might be a gamebreaking strategy buried in this setup. I'm open to conjecture.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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I have to play devil's advocate here and point out that we are discussing asking the only non-vanilla docs in the game to claim, a provably scummy desire in most setups. I'd like to hear from someone against this idea with a well reasoned case for why it's a bad one.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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I can see that, Nameless. I'll withold judgement until more have chimed in. Someone might come up with something else.
Is scumhunting at a crawl with this setup/planning discussion? Or is this part of our scumhunt? There's no way to know (and I like it).[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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Comedic timing is ruined by now, but...
ARE YOU KIDDING ME STALLONE?!GnKoichi wrote:Sorry 66% chance to kill one of our own. Still not good odds.
Those are AMAZING odds! Those are odds with tits and beer on tap!
Shit, buster, on those odds I'd whip out an uzi and mow over half the town D1, giggling while I did it, just trying to randomly win ON ACCIDENT! I would strap a chainsaw on each arm and leg and CARTWHEEL OF DEATH through EVERY. SINGLE. ONE of you, randomly chopping off heads, arms, and peckers on the OFF CHANCE I'd win with those spectacufuckinglar odds.
I'm trying to say no, but you already know you're a newbie, so there's no call for such HOLY CRAP I WOULD MARRY THOSE ODDS admonishments.
Now, back to something we're all not focused on: Scumhunting.
I read Gonk town and Plum town... I didn't like how doublePuta chastized Plum's participation. It felt like stretching for something to attack.
Stef: I think your case on Gonk is based more upon a moment of bad logic on his part than strictly scummy logic. Just my impression.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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Can everyone take some time away from harrassing the newb (not that I disapprove) to scumhunt? Or do you all want to lynch the newb and train him up for the next game he's in?
MK's last post consisted of , sardonic comments about everyone else's comments, and generally added nothing valuable to the discussion (possible exception: I agree with MK that we're not scumhunting right this second, and the two comments about my own comments were spot-on). MK: Do you have a suspect for scum aside from Gonk?[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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I think the situation was this:Kmd4390 wrote:What did you do to "act as a smoke screen" following his posts. You voted no lynch. If you think he was trying to mislead us, you are blaming him for your no lynch vote.
What charter was trying to say: We're not likely to see death for a while, given the high number of docs.
What Gonk heard: We shouldn't promote deaths for a while.
Gonk: Then let's no lynch!
Everyone: GET THAT TALKING GUY[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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I disagree with this idea. True, we'll be randomly shooting in the dark, but four innocent deaths on N1 after a mislynch could = lylo.Kiro wrote:I wouldn't say either charter's or GnK's comments about how many NKs there may be is misleading... just useless conjecture. There are a ton of possibilities in regards to how many NKs occur and how various actions determine them.
I have an interesting proposal to share and would like some input. Doctors are not compulsive this game, so tell all Doctors not to protect at all on Night 1. Here are some reasons why:
1) Town Doctors might block a good hit on the scum/SK.
2) The Mafia Doctor will almost certainly go against Town's wishes and still protect one of his buddies. If someone calls out that they have a failed kill on Day 2, we might have a direct lead on scum.
Obviously, there's an inherent risk that we're gonna see up to 4 Townies die, but that was possible even if all the Doctors protect anyways. In this scenario, the Mafia are guaranteed a successful kill, but at the same time, they will be exposed to both Town Vigs and the SK. Without any real clue as to alignment this early in the game, I think it is a reasonable tradeoff for the chance to drop scum early. Also, on Day 2 if people have to claim who they acted upon on Night 1, you're gonna see some crazy WIFOM like, "why did you think this person was worth protecting, etc. etc." when there's probably no basis other than just gut or coinflip. This strategy would only apply on Night 1 of course. Comments?
Let's all use our own best judgement and let the game develop more naturally, says I.
I am not no-lynching, and I am not not using my doc protect. As ofthis postI consider non-scumhunting to be attack worthy. We've talked the setup to death, and it's time to move on.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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I think charter's point, though, may be that the scum and town are all going to choose targets based on what's said in this thread. It's likely the mafia will pick their targets based on criteria that the docs will also be able to follow, and so the kills might be reduced by way of mass suggestion or subtle posting habits leading to everyone targeting Gonk.
But I also like GnKoichi's assertion that math > WIFOM. He's totally right.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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Nameless wrote:That's not exactly an encouraging response there, Wall-E.Nameless, paraphrased wrote:You've done something scummy.
@ Tony: [sarcasm]That's ... nice? I guess it's a pretty accurate representation too. And very useful towards our scumhunting! [/sarcasm]Wall-E, paraphrased wrote:Nice scumhunting!
FOS: Wall-E, Tony
I can encourage good behavior without agreeing with the specific action.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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I admit to a bit of hypocrisy there. Still, calling for it is better than doing absolutely nothing, I'd think.Wall-E is saying, everyone, be like Nameless and scumhunt, and then doesn't provide any of his own cases to pursue. A bit hypocritical there. Arguing against setup discussion is fine, but once we're down to the scumhunting aspect, I don't see anything from you.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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Your accusation is that I've been friendly with GnKoichi. I can't deny that.
If you want, I'll tell you that we aren't scumbuddies...
...but your point is valid and the only thing I can offer is, "Nuh uh."
Hence the lack of commentary.
Sorta wanting you to try harder, too.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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Sure.Explain that vote and following statement.
The vote is because I think charter's scum.
The statement is to aggrivate charter and exacerbate the situation.
Thanks for ruining it...
BUT!
GnKoichi has yet again pwned charter in post 148. I'm liking this situation. I'm going to keep doing what I do.
Feel free to get pissed and vote me for it![url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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I've been suspicious of omni and charter for some time now. Now that omni has forced my hand, relieving the pressure on charter, I'm opening this can of worms.
charter and omni have been buddy-buddy scumfriends all day. Viewing their posts in isolation, they double-team people, defend themselves, and for the space of one post omni even pretended to attack charter.
SUPRISE scumlords![url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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Plum: Your first paragraph: I did all that to get a reaction from charter. Then omni jumped in. I'd already been suspicious of their partnership, and now I'm going to reveal my case against them both. You'll have to give me some time, I'm eating dinner.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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EBWOP: Nameless and charter have been defending each other, taking pressure off each other, attacking each other's targets and attackers. Obviously there's nothing scummy about defending oneself. That was a typo due to fast typing.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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charter's 2nd post: Starts a huge debate over setup to avoid having to appear to be scumhunting.charter wrote:vote nameless
Guys, I found the first scum. Being serious here.
charter's 3rd post: Owns up to the fact that this setup is clearly impossible to break and makes a non-issue out of MK's random vote. "Is this serious?"To what purpose did you ask the question of MK in this post, charter?
charter's 4th post: Denounces the discussion he'd started to appear to be town trying to get things back on track, despite being the derailer wut lol.
charter's 5th post: Testing the waters on a vig claim wth?
charter's 6th post: Again, trying to appear town by shooting down his own suggestion, still not scumhunting.
charter's 7th post: More getting-the-town-back-on-track from his own derailment.
charter's 8th post: Denounces a massclaim but advocates a night action claim in the same post. What's the difference between the two?
charter's 9th post: Fence-sitting on the massclaim issue to promote people into possibly agreeing to it. Also conjectures about whether or not there will be nightkills. Still nearly zero scumhunting, and now he's inspiring a third derailment from scumhunting.
charter's 10th post: A question of GnKoichi, "Is this serious?" That's his second passing attempt to appear to be scumhunting. It would be a policy FoS at best, which is far from a scumtell.
charter's 11th post: More conjecture about the setup.
charter's 12th post: Votes GnKoichi. Reasons: Doesn't like how GnKoichi answers questions and asserts that GnKoichi "gave a poor explaination of his accusation." OMGUS.
charter's 13th post: Defense without providing evidence.
charter's 14th post: Shifting the burden of proof. YOU, charter, asserted that there were not likely to be many deaths at night. Your 14th post then says "Prove there are no WMDs in Iraq!!" You can't prove the lack of something, you have to prove it exists, or at the very least, offer evidence that it does.
charter's 15th post: Baseless assertion with no evidence backing his claim. Again. Again.
charter's 16th post: Applies some subtle psychological pressure, saying that if any townie claims to have used dice to choose their night protect he'll call them scum. Scaaaary, charter. For the record, this declaration is clearly bullying and the assertion that using random dice is scummy is flat wrong.
charter's 17th post: "I'm not scum!"
charter's 18th post: "There's some scummy logic being hurled around!" No backup, no citation, an ambiguous blanket statement that he can later claim applied to anyone he wants to handpick.
Nameless PBPA shortly, followed by scumpairing PBPA.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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"Sure, yeah, whatever, I'm a doc... why not? Get off my back, mom!"charter wrote:
I'm a doc, sure.Nameless wrote:I really hope you plan on answering my question too, Charter. And explaining why you'll consider GK scum if somebody ELSE claims they randomly protected.
I will consider anyone scum that says the randomly acted last night. I think you misheard me about GK being scum. Whoever says they randomly acted I will view as scum.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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@Plum: Except I know I'm town, and the rest of my case points strongly at charter and Nameless as scum, imo.
Please keep in mind that I use the most biased possible language when attacking. I'm never 100% sure of a case. In this case, I'm roughly 70% sure charter and Nameless are scumbuds.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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I see the problem here.
I'll tell you this:
I'm a hypocrite.
I was born a hypocrite. I hold other people to a different standard than I do myself. I understand myself, and I am not my enemy, and so I don't worry about following the moral strictures to which I believe that my fellow man should apply himself, and so long as I am not detracting from the enjoyment of the game of another player (excessively), I will do as my higher brain functions allow (they're a bit drugged up at the moment, but rest assured I am thinking clearly, if slowly.
In other words, my ethics are completely nonexistent in regards to how I play this game.
So if you want something important, you have to ask for it, and be really clear, so I'm sure to understand you completely.
Otherwise, I'm not going to respond much, mostly because it is hard for me to read some of the posts.
And if I miss a question, don't be mad.
Sometimes I miss bits of conversation due to windows tabs shenanigans.
Otherwise... wait, what are you asking me, specifically?
My case on Nameless and charter, scumlords:
Nameless: random votes charter.Nameless wrote:Vote: Charter, for wishful thinking.
Second post: Engages charter's banter, distancing a bit by taking a groundless stance on some inane setup debate, the two of them having the lamest and weakest possible riposte throughout.
Puta Puta agrees with me on this: Nameless' side of the banter felt fake.
They wagoned Kiro together, Nameless for lurking, charter for policy something I can't recall. I'll check back after I post.
I'd also like to note how charter pre-empted my case by bringing this up. Guilty conscience. He knew I'd include this, yet I never alluded to my intent to do so. Do you deny that?
Nameless comes to charter's rescue, a white knight attacking my attack as if charter needed to defend against a nearly baseless vote. "Lol pwnd by the Noob." or something, right? I forget now.
Strange how Nameless felt the need to defend against literally nothing.
All the while, Nameless is also ravenously defending charter, like a lapdog. Perhaps we kill charter, no?
GnKoichi agrees with me on this: Nameless was behaving oddly in favor of charter's goodwill with the town.
Nameless finds a roundabout explanation of a very complex emotion the newb was having (by pulling several teeth) and simplifies it to what he/she consciously knew was the truth, the proverbial purloined letter, the too-obvious clue left in plain sight to convince those who read it of some inherent ridiculousness of notion it was:
Nameless wrote the following, in the voice of roleplaying GnKoichi: "Just your willingness to join the attack against me and to defend charter, and you took things I said purposefully out of context to make me look worse."
Nameless: Why did you feel the need to build a case on yourself like that with zero provocation?
At this moment in the game's flow, I inject my first attack on charter, a real attack, one meant to wound deep like the spear of a warrior, thrust through flesh and against bone, leaving a dark, red hole.
So I tried to do that.
And that, roughly, brings us up to date.
Can you show me how I'm wrong, Nameless?
Can you, charter?[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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Upon review of your defense, it's ad hom. and bewildered sarcasm with very little content. I think you failed to address several of my important bits. The only things I was willing to demand you do in self-defense was answer/address the bolded bits of the attack, so you're off the hook for now. Suffice to say, charter's my pick at the moment.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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Wall-E wrote:Nameless finds a roundabout explanation of a very complex emotion the newb was having (by pulling several teeth) and simplifies it to what he/she consciously knew was the truth, the proverbial purloined letter, the too-obvious clue left in plain sight to convince those who read it of some inherent ridiculousness of notion it was:
Nameless wrote the following, in the voice of roleplaying GnKoichi: "Just your willingness to join the attack against me and to defend charter, and you took things I said purposefully out of context to make me look worse."
Nameless: Why did you feel the need to build a case on yourself like that with zero provocation?Nameless wrote:Yes, that was an example of what GK could have posted to answer the question presented to him while still retaining all the same relevant points - posted in response to GK asking how he could have done so without the sniping at Charter re: the NK speculation. I didn't say I agreed with him (either of them). What's your point?
My point is in the first quote in this post. You acting like I didn't state the point originally is noted.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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I haven't dropped the case on Nameless, I'm just going to be less vocal about it for now.
The loquacious post was the result of my medication, most likely.
Kiro: What does it matter if TM doesn't change his random vote for a while?[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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animorpherv1: At the time, we were discussing that option amongst others. I stand by the question, as setup discussion in a mini like this is par for the course.
@everyone: Don't lynch me for doing what everyone else should be doing (scumhunting/building cases).
Don't quicklynch me under any circumstance. Only warning.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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Are there subtle things being said about me? Are they bad? Explain more serious.Kmd4390 wrote:Wall-E wrote:I'm going to hang back and see what else develops.Wall-E wrote: Don't lynch me for doing what everyone else should be doing (scumhunting/building cases).[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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I assure you that the gaps in information in the quoted selections are making my snippets there appear self-conflicting. Nothing more. If you'd like to prove otherwise, be my guest. It's your case. I'll defend against anything you feel the urge to put into words.Nameless wrote:Are you addressing Kmd or I in the above post?
In any case, regarding #254, what I'm pointing out is that you yourself seem unsure whether your case (which you never clarified, I might remind) is BS or not. The obvious implications are that is IS and that you appear moreso scummy for wavering back and forth about it.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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you guys aresmurfsi'm not doing any of the things you suggested
i'm going to keep on playing this game and you can just cry over me not liking my ownsmurfingcase anymore
or if you don't like that, pull your lower lip over your head and swallow
play nice please. while the words i replaced werent that bad, i would prefer if y'all laid off the name calling, thank you.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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