Mini Normal 2304: Conway's Game Of Life [GAME OVER!]

[Espeonage]

The concept of mafia was a human invention. Bob has claimed human.

vote: bob

[Espeonage]

Also completely aside from everything. I haven't talked to you in fkn years Bella, how the hell have you been.

[Espeonage]

hi hello

why

do we have a wagon forming this early

Do you think page 1 *wagons* are serious?

What I do wonder is why you appear concerned for humaneatingmonkey.

Can you get an avvie pls. Makes it far easier to read the thread with the visual cue

[Espeonage]

hi hello

why

do we have a wagon forming this early

Do you think page 1 *wagons* are serious?

What I do wonder is why you appear concerned for humaneatingmonkey.

the man-eater is fine. it is odd to see a wagon form on page one though, and particularly odd that you took that so personally so quickly. why is your immediate response an attempt to discredit me and then deflect my point by misinterpreting it?

This is aggressive, I'm gonna need you to say sike right now.

[Espeonage]

Gonna go and say I'm soul reading owl as town here. Feels like someone that doesn't play forum much, but plays irl or something and isn't used to shit hitting l-1 before they even post in the thread bc it's fucking funny.

[Espeonage]

Nurse has good measured probe. Either town or good scum posturing. A+

[Espeonage]

I see a book I read the cover.

[Espeonage]

Thanks for not changing over all these years NM

[Espeonage]

Did you not read the mason thread, I told you not to tell anyone?

[Espeonage]

Yeah I don't have one. All I have is vibes and pizazz.

[Espeonage]

But to be more specific.

People who aggro easily are usually in my experience bullheaded town that are too inexperienced to realise that town needs to be townread too to do their job. (need to be townread to be believed and theres such a drop off of belief in dead people because mafia players are narcissists)

Of course Mafia get defensive, but the main focus of a mafia, especially a new mafia is to not make waves. So the vibe check says dumb town.

[Espeonage]

Am in a surrealist performance piece?

[Espeonage]

"attempting to discredit you" did not like the tone of "Do you think page 1 *wagons* are serious?". seemed more like "hey this post is 100% definitely silly and irrelevant, trust me and ignore it immediately" to me rather than "this is a flawed and suspicious assumption". the first is a lot more scum-typical.

[Espeonage]

you assume he believes he wont be townread by the post he made? he really seemed like he was GUARDING THE TOWN from STUPID EARLY WAGONS and SCUMHUNTING.

You may be right after whatever the fact that was just now. We'll find out.

[Espeonage]

Why did I manage to have fuck autocorrect to fact

[Espeonage]

and yet no votes from you after the acknowledgement that I may be right and the heckling of Quiet Owl's posts.

Espeonage... you are not *gasp*... you are not partners with Quiet owl are you?

Bro if you think heckling is scumreading NM is gonna give you an aneurysm. But nah, reacting to such a small subset of the playerlist is asking for TvTs, I'm chill with waiting.

[Espeonage]

Monkey's eagerness to control the game feels scum-motivated. And this is only exacerbated by the fact that they have really gone hard on the proverbial low hanging fruit.

The lining up of lynches is also always something I am watchful of. In both cases, if owl is town, monkey is just being negligent if town, and if owl is scum it's a very aggressive theater strat. The common thread being that monkey lining up lynches is poo poo.

vote: humaneatingmonkey

[Espeonage]

Monkey's eagerness to control the game feels scum-motivated. And this is only exacerbated by the fact that they have really gone hard on the proverbial low hanging fruit.

The lining up of lynches is also always something I am watchful of. In both cases, if owl is town, monkey is just being negligent if town, and if owl is scum it's a very aggressive theater strat. The common thread being that monkey lining up lynches is poo poo.

vote: humaneatingmonkey

Remember, the L-word is a no no.

Right, what's the vernacular now? Sorry I haven't played in the better part of five years.

[Espeonage]

What do you mean by eagerness to control the game?

It's like a pace setting thing. Especially like last night's posting. I touched on this with the going aggressive on reads early, especially when so little of the game has gotten to play yet as a potential pitfall, I believe I said that it can lead to TvTs bc we might all be arguing without a single mafia player around.

Add to that how they were posturing around the owl narrative and trying to coax votes out. I see that as trying to take a town leading stance which is a nice spot for experienced scum players.

[Espeonage]

I might be wrong but don't the two halves of espe's post contradict? Aggression is good but also bad? Leading town is town-y so scum want to do it?

You might be misunderstanding.
Espe's post describes me as a pacesetter, a narrative controller, and a boogeyman mastermind experienced scum trying to influence everyone to agree with my Night Owl observations so early in the game when we're still trying to have fun and be silly. Therefore scum.

pretty much this but without the adhom, yes.

To respond to Bella as well. There's nothing wrong with leading the town, but there is something wrong with trying to forcibly establish it. I don't think anyone should be 'leading town' regardless, but monkey's lines of question and aggressive tone choice read to me like someone trying to fight their way to such a position. And that's the bit that's scummy.

[Espeonage]

What do you mean by eagerness to control the game?

It's like a pace setting thing. Especially like last night's posting. I touched on this with the going aggressive on reads early, especially when so little of the game has gotten to play yet as a potential pitfall, I believe I said that it can lead to TvTs bc we might all be arguing without a single mafia player around.

Add to that how they were posturing around the owl narrative and trying to coax votes out. I see that as trying to take a town leading stance which is a nice spot for experienced scum players.

here's the thing: i was uncharacteristically aggressive really early on in the game, but apparently that makes me look towny, instead of fairly obvious alternatives such as whiteknighting, or planned theatre with a scumpartner.

meanwhile monkey's aggression is read by you as scummy. going to need some elaboration here

I don't read your aggression is town because it's aggression, I'm reading you as town because the V part of VI.

[Espeonage]

can u explain those more? I think theyre weird

Owl is over eager town.

Esp wants to control the game, but is projecting it onto Monkey.

Hu is too eager to sheep Esp......Thinking actually they cannot be scum together, but high equity one of them is.

Bella was just happy to throw out some town reads(this one is definitely a more snap read, just pinged me in all the wrong places).

I feel like there is a tonal difference. But also I feel like there's narcissism in the "Only you can prevent forest fires" kind of way where I really don't want people listening to monkey when I scumreading them.

[Espeonage]

oh wait yeah meh I found it, HEM calls espeonage a potential partner to owl

I feel really good about Owl being town.

There is AT LEAST one scum in Esp/Hu

Bella is the wildcard, feel like they are informed.

This is also setting up elims as well by the way. Don't fuck everything up if this is just stubborn tvt.

[Espeonage]

no idea how anyone could read Hu either way. they have exactly two posts: a hello, and sheeping espeon. these don't strike me as alignment indicative

I am guessing they meant monkey and mistyped HEM or did the same sort of typing slip as bella. Otherwise that post makes no sense.

[Espeonage]

You ain't no bogeyman. You're just scummy. Don't discredit discourse bc you're offended.

[Espeonage]

Been real out of it with a cold.

Been lurking though. Want to address because it was missed, that the reason I was so adamant to stop monkey from having any power in the town was a ego thing bc I don't trust any town that is in a stable position because that is when the most sheeping happens and I certainly wouldn't want that from someone who I have yet to build respect for. Basically, people who aren't proven good players shouldn't be writing with authority, and doing so is kinda showboaty and usually (in my experience) cocky scum. I hope that makes it clear as mud.

sheep seems like bad town. Not really contributed anything but not in a hiding in the shadows way.

Something rubs me wrong about Drew but I can't put my finger on it yet. I think its that I'm particularly wary of people throwing town reads on me with dubious reasoning and I didn't like the bob vote bc I really don't see it. I think there might be an element of over-justification without pressure.

[Espeonage]

nvm take that back I imagined it weird af

[Espeonage]

I can't remember who it was, in my mind it was you lol

[Espeonage]

Sheep, you asked. You haven't really been saying much with your posts. There's no meat.

[Espeonage]

You aren't posting from an afraid of being around viewpoint so town.

[Espeonage]

No real read of peregrine atm. They are in the town pile tho.

[Espeonage]

NM isn't being disruptive enough though. Lean scum.

[Espeonage]

The more owl posts the more I think I may have been wrong on the VI read and the more I think they are SI.

[Espeonage]

Nothing AI. They posted cases that are fine but could come from other. Benefit of the numbers says town pile.

[Espeonage]

Also I would ask that we not call other people’s play bad or poor!! There’s no need to do that even if it’s a strategy, and I think there are better ways to approach talking about someone!!!!!

I agree. I also read the situation as scum!Espe calling the players on his wagon bad as a strategy. Perhaps to discredit.

First, I'm not sure it's believable to be calling sheep bad town here. sheep should be suspicious in his eyes for his position in Espe's wagon -- sheep actually generates new ideas to fuel Espe's doom.

Heck, I feel suspicious about sheep's place in Espe's wagon. Scum has historically gathered behind me to push me into eliminating town. But I'm not sure that's what's happening here.

I also find his reframing of his push as unbelievable. He went from describing me as experienced scum pace setter and narrative controller... to a bad player that he doesn't want anyone to listen to because of ego? So does that mean he sees me - his primary vote and suspect - as town now? Help me here, as I'm not sure why he'd reframe his position otherwise. Does it mean he doesn't really see me as scum?

Nevertheless, I will not remove my vote. At this point, I heard enough. I will give the town a favor by not continuing to cross-examine Espe as that might be endless spam and will make an environment where scum can cover up easily. Although I hope those who disagree with me will try their best to dissuade me and those who agree with me to vote with me.

I didn't reframe you as a bad player. I reframed it as me having no respect for players I haven't seen be amazing.

[Espeonage]

I know this wasn't directed to me but why expect this? Cause you're both the top scumreads?

Do you feel I'm the top scumread? Espe is the top wagon, I don't feel like I'm the top scumread.
Why do you scumread me?

See this is the kind of post that perfectly shows why I think you're trying to control narrative in a scummy way.

The three leading scumreads of the game (and minis usually have three) are very clearly Myself, Owl, and you. And yet this is the point you choose to dispute because it doesn't fit your narrative of how you should be read.

[Espeonage]

Like this is exactly why I am scumreading you so hard. That isn't a town post. It doesn't push any town agenda in the game, it pushes a selfish one.

People really like to throw around omgus, but in reality, this is the situation where it is scummy because this has the motivation of narrative controlling against the truth.

[Espeonage]

I don't dispute it. I'm asking for a demonstration.

Come on man, the subtext of that post is that you certainly do dispute it.

[Espeonage]

Well, it's better than asking you in one post: What did you expect from Hu Tao's catch-up that pinged his defensiveness as scum? Were you expecting something else?
But now you also have my two cents.

I didn't say they were scum.....

I really don't like Hu's catch up here.

Very defensive and discrediting.

What's the point of saying this then?

Like this is you on the other side of the coin, but in a far less concrete way from Drew. You are certainly capable of reading between the lines. You have the comprehension skills.

[Espeonage]

Sure. Lots of huff and puff about me controlling the narrative. Control it yourself then. Show us why I'm scum. It's been days of you on the back foot and not much interaction with the other slots. Show me why I'm wrong.

I did say I have been sick as all hell.

[Espeonage]

If you want some analysis not based around you, then I guess now is a good time to say that sheep has actually been doing some good questioning and showing poise and restraint wrt to reads. I like that.

[Espeonage]

See the difference is that drew said scum lean. Look I'm not sure happy with Drew's one either, but, yours is the more egregious of the two.

[Espeonage]

I know this wasn't directed to me but why expect this? Cause you're both the top scumreads?

Do you feel I'm the top scumread? Espe is the top wagon, I don't feel like I'm the top scumread.
Why do you scumread me?

See this is the kind of post that perfectly shows why I think you're trying to control narrative in a scummy way.

The three leading scumreads of the game (and minis usually have three) are very clearly Myself, Owl, and you. And yet this is the point you choose to dispute because it doesn't fit your narrative of how you should be read.

[Espeonage]

You know, Espionage has ignored my posts directed towards him twice now.

...

.
.
.

ignored is incorrect, skimmed past.

[Espeonage]

Of course Mafia get defensive, but the main focus of a mafia, especially a new mafia is to not make waves. So the vibe check says dumb town.

On this point do you read Quiet Owl as being defensive in our interactions?

yes

[Espeonage]

Such a profound and game defining question from so not long ago. I sure hope this allows you to game solve in a way previously unavailable.

[Espeonage]

Such a profound and game defining question from so not long ago. I sure hope this allows you to game solve in a way previously unavailable.

You shouldn't be so resistant in answering one of my three posts, Espeonage.

I literally ISO'd you.

[Espeonage]

Of course Mafia get defensive, but the main focus of a mafia, especially a new mafia is to not make waves. So the vibe check says dumb town.

On this point do you read Quiet Owl as being defensive in our interactions?

Yes

Monkey's eagerness to control the game feels scum-motivated. And this is only exacerbated by the fact that they have really gone hard on the proverbial low hanging fruit.

The lining up of lynches is also always something I am watchful of. In both cases, if owl is town, monkey is just being negligent if town, and if owl is scum it's a very aggressive theater strat. The common thread being that monkey lining up lynches is poo poo.

vote: humaneatingmonkey

IIRC HEM had 3 votes at this time.

Could it be reaching for low-hanging fruit adding a fourth vote at this time?

Surely this is rhetorical.

You ain't no bogeyman. You're just scummy.

Don't discredit discourse bc you're offended.

The brief tonal shift strikes me as odd.

This is a statement sir

[Espeonage]

This game is now the ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer thread. Can we get this moved to Mish Mash?

[Espeonage]

I don't appreciate your defensiveness. Your recent posts come off as frustrated, short, and lashing out.

You weren't like this earlier.

And I thought I was hiding it so well.

[Espeonage]

The vibes in this thread are gnarly in a bad way!!

I will catch up tonight or tomorrow (it shouldn’t take long!) but as a sneak peek I see Espeonage as mafia still, and they are coming across poorly in their interaction with HEM!

I’m unsure if it is personality or not at this point, if I am honest but Espe keeps choosing to take the worst faith interpretations and assumptions!

I take umbrage with this because I feel like I am giving back what I am getting from the thread. I think why I am so frustrated by this game right now is that there is so much rhetoric for the sake of posting, and it is so stagnating.

So I don't think I am taking worst faith, I am taking logical subtext. Like contrast the iso of someone like sheep vs someone like monkey and tell me with a straight face that you think monkey isnt being obtuse on purpose.

[Espeonage]

Slight watch on std, probably some amount of paranoia, but the very obvious "I'm townreading espe" without any meat behind it to create a competing wagon is nice scumtactic to get cred if I do get elimmed today.

Not a scumread, but defs wariness from me.

[Espeonage]

I'd be voting drew in that scenario. Nurses rhetoric being scum l AI only really makes sense as a partner to you so I'm not convinced there.

[Espeonage]

My very surface level gamesolve of reads is probably monkey, drew, std. Just based on the spread of things but obv we have bellaslot, bob who I haven't been inspired to read, dunn who I have no real read on which does strike as odd.

[Espeonage]

Oh and obv NM who is same as bella

[Espeonage]

There's a chance that the scum is just bella, NM, and like one of hu or nurse in which case we've been yelling at each other in an unreadable game of just town.

Pedit: it's not like I don't have other reads. But I'm not going to go after vibes reads when there's still a shot at momentum in my near certain read.

[Espeonage]

Like the chance that one or more scum are literally unreadable because of how fresh the game is and the number of disengaged slots is so high that not going after you monkey is the bit that wouldn't doing my job as town.

[Espeonage]

We're the top two posters by far, we can chill for a bit as well.

[Espeonage]

Like the chance that one or more scum are literally unreadable because of how fresh the game is and the number of disengaged slots is so high that not going after you monkey is the bit that wouldn't doing my job as town.

The first part of your sentence is why you should be reconsidering if you have the right perspective. You've been going after me. You scumread me. Fine. Go after the other slots as well because they're disengaged and unreadable.

I.. I. What?!?

[Espeonage]

Would you mind if we speak in a more civil manner from now on? I feel like the frustration isn't even warranted when I'm extending a lot of goodwill toward you. If I am not clear in my speech, ask for a clarification.

This is textbook narcissistic gaslighting, and I really hope you are scum and this is not a personal trait.

@Mod: Please replace me, all goodwill is gone.