Normal 2302: Magical Girls | GAME OVER

[towwl]

Some true facts: I’m sitting on a wooden bench swing right now. This is my first second game on mafiascum. I’m alone in Atlanta this week for work. I rolled town this game. An Olympic gold medalist taught me how to ski when I was 5. I like long walks on the beach. I read large normal 243 last weekend. This vote is random.

VOTE: Merlyn

[towwl]

How viable is this strategy?: the last two players to claim town are evil

[towwl]

Some true facts: I’m sitting on a wooden bench swing right now. This is my first second game on mafiascum. I’m alone in Atlanta this week for work. I rolled town this game. An Olympic gold medalist taught me how to ski when I was 5. I like long walks on the beach. I read large normal 243 last weekend. This vote is random.

VOTE: Merlyn

I'm going to guess enjoying long walks on the beach is the lie. You prefer colder climates (skiing)

That's undercut by the Atlanta statement though so maybe not

This isn't two truths and a lie, actually, is it. this is just all truths. Is it? Why'd you write this like seven truths and a lie though. Or eight truths.

anything interesting happen in Large 243?

There is only truth! No lies at all. The "long walks on the beach" one is a bit misleading, I suppose, as I don't particularly care for the beach itself. The walk is the part I enjoy the most. Here's another truth: I'd really rather not be in Atlanta right now; I'm looking forward to driving back home Friday.

curiouskarmadog and Hu Tao both had a lot of people scumreading them in large 243 and both were town. Also the on-again-off-again relationship between Andante and Flavor Leaf on D1/D2 was fun to read but that's not quite as relevant here.

[towwl]

geraintm is villagery

I agree but I don't really know why.

[towwl]

curiouskarmadog and Hu Tao both had a lot of people scumreading them in large 243 and both were town. Also the on-again-off-again relationship between Andante and Flavor Leaf on D1/D2 was fun to read but that's not quite as relevant here.

How far into the game were they incorrectly scum read? And what were the reasons?

ckd was one of the first wagons on D1 because of an early case made against them by scum, vaguely claimed a negative utility pr due to being a prominent wagon and needing to go V/LA for a bit, then was on a lot of people's lists for the rest of the game until they were killed N5 and flipped as an ascetic townie. I think most of their heat came from scum though iirc. They were pretty clearly town to me when I read the thread!

I don't really remember why Hu Tao was SRd though. People just think they have scummy vibes or something. I think activity levels was an argument. D1 went on forever and they were a competing wagon there for a good bit of it. They survived to the end.

I hope I get a good grade on my large normal 243 quiz

[towwl]

also why are we talking about another game?

I like this post because ckd seems annoyed by a conversation where I provide a bit of shielding for them. I think scum would just let that conversation happen.

@Towwl, did you think the scumreads of Hu Tao/CKD in that game were unwarranted, and do you feel your reading of that game has impacted how you're approaching them in this one?

I dunno if they were really "unwarranted", I think pretty much any wagon in this game can be "warranted", especially Day 1

I wrote up a pretty detailed answer to this question but I didn't think it would be productive to give my exact thoughts in the thread here so I backspaced it and I'm just going to drop this for now. I'd rather talk about the current game, anyways.

also sorry el but i think i slightly scumread you now. it is incredibly funny to turn the attempt to get me talking about activity into a joke about you trying to get me to read you as town, but i do think there is definitely truth in that joke somewhat and that worries me a tiny bit (and yes you would be this open about it as mafia i know youuu)

I think this was a good catch and I townread you for it

lmao, I'm surprised this is the first time anyones noticed

This is a terrible response to being caught lying!

I asked you about your motivations. You lied.

My day 1 play is to get things to happen. If I say my motivation for doing X is to get things to happen it stops getting things to happen in the same way. So of course I lied, just so happened that this was a provable lie

This seems like a lousy strategy tbh, but I'm still pretty new so what do I know. Do you get a lot of town wins with this?

This post is good enough to shake off my RVS vote.

UNVOTE: Merlyn
VOTE: Elements

Is there normally 3 scum in a 13 player?

dumbtell denied

Morning Tweet (I feel sneaky agenda vibes in the posts)

I kinda felt that too

Mental note, don’t attempt humour.

curious why?

Because my rvs with a little joke attached is the one that got the piley-on despite there being a few others to start the game off.

Tweet already asked you about this (85) but you didn't really answer. It sounds like you think there's more promising targets to pursue than [post]43[/vote]. What are they?

[towwl]

Tweet already asked you about this (85) but you didn't really answer. It sounds like you think there's more promising targets to pursue than 43. What are they?

ebwop

[towwl]

wrt

lmao, I'm surprised this is the first time anyones noticed

This is a terrible response to being caught lying!

Why?

It reads to me as you laughing it off while saying "well actually I MEANT to do that" which is very slippery

[towwl]

I am free from Atlanta. Unfortunately they are taking me back to Atlanta sometime next month probably if I'm not fired by then. Regardless, I have more time now to obsess over this game. I just read through the thread again and here's a rough readslist for now

just think they are town

:
curiouskarmadog
OopsieDaisy

town enough for now

:
geraintm
Morning Tweet

could easily go either way

:
Save The Dragons
Merlyn
sheepsaysmeep
Hu Tao

am sus of

DrippingGoofball
bristep123
Emperor flippyNips
Elements

[towwl]

can you talk about goofball? all I remember is seeing you agree with something controversial they said which seems like it should make you like them a little

Very lackluster game input so far. Hu Tao's 190 resonated with me, and I didn't really like 204 or the reason for scumreading Hu Tao then in 213.

The controversial thing I agreed with was calling Morning Tweet's posts vaguely agenda-y, which did strike me as a bit of a mindmeld. I'm not really sure how AI it is of Morning Tweet though at this point and I'm also not really sure how AI it is of Goofball that both her and I both felt like that about Tweet's posts.

Definitely closer to null than my other susses just due to a lack of content, but still sus imo

[towwl]

Ok I gave the thread a closer read and actually took notes after a good nights rest so here's where my head is at now on everybody

i just think they're town

:
OopsieDaisy
Pretty much everybody townreads her and I agree with her reads. 251 is a really good post that shows her internal debate as to her strongest reads and how that interacts with the best way to progress the thread. Easy townread.

towny enough for now

:
Morning Tweet
Seems well enough engaged with the thread, is asking good questions, I agree with most of what she's saying and doing. Her progression on bristep seems really genuine/natural, like somebody who is trying to solve the game. I agreed with DGB's observation that Tweet seems vaguely agenda-y as I had a faint feeling that Tweet's contributions to the thread could come from a seasoned scum player carefully shaping the direction of the game, particularly in her light interrogation of Elements's meta without ever actually pushing or scumreading them. But that's mostly just paranoia. I pretty much have zero interest in a push on Tweet right now.

sheepsaysmeep
He's making good reads and is open with his thoughts and reasons why he leans in certain directions. Reading back today I'm unsure why I even had sheep as null a few posts ago. I suppose catching the slight inconsistency in my reads in 281 was a good observation which made me townread him more, but even his content before that is quite towny to me now. He just has good posts!

townish

:
curiouskarmadog
I like their posts. I'm mainly townreading ckd for 73. However, interestingly enough though ckd has not given reads on any slot except for Elements, who they feel very strongly about. It could be a simple scum tactic of just tunneling somebody D1 and not having to worry about associations with any other slot. Alternatively, they might just not want to be distracted from a strong scumread. It would be nice to at least have some townreads from ckd though. I originally had ckd at the top of my list as I was writing this post but the realization about their tunnel gave me enough pause to move them down a good bit.

geraintm
I'm realizing my townread of gera is mostly based on vibes. His posts just seem very cool. It's the best way I can put it. He's too cool to be scum. Of course since this is mainly based on vibes it can't be that strong of a townread. But it's still a townread.

Hu Tao
A lackluster slot right now so I can see why there's a wagon here, but I don't really disagree with anything they've said so far. Their ISO looks fine to me. It's interesting that so many people have scumread Hu Tao at this point, basically nobody is defending them. I'll go against the grain here and say I'm leaning towards Hu Tao being town.

Save The Dragons
Just barely on the town side of null for me right now. I think 260 is pretty good, even if I'm not totally sold on the argument there quite yet.

pretty much null

:
Merlyn
Basically the closest to null you can get. 243 is the most interesting post from her and I think it's a good post, but in the context of it being most of her input in this game so far it just kinda falls flat and I can't really think much of it. 179 is fine too and I said as much earlier, but it doesn't really do much to establish Merlyn's position in the game.

scummy side of null

:
DrippingGoofball
I still pretty much agree with what I said last night in 282, even after a reread. Additionally to that I find myself disagreeing with her more than most others so far (bristep town, elements town, ckd scum). I feel like Morning Tweet has prepared us a bit for how offbeat DrippingGoofball can be though (78, 189), so I'm concerned I might just be going for mislim bait by going further here.

Elements
At this point I don't think I'm very interested in an Elements wagon. I feel pretty conflicted about them. I agree pretty concretely with OopsieDaisy's 251 where she's concerned about Elements but sees them as too useful for generating content to yeet them already. I think sheep also gives a pretty compelling argument in 257 that Elements' timeline-fucking (called out by ckd in 150) isn't necessarily scum indicative. But still, it's a blatant lie, and I still really don't like 152.

scummy

:
bristep123
I don't like the deflection given in 82, saying there were other things to start a wagon on that weren't bristep's 43, but not elaborating on what the juicier targets may be, even after being asked by Morning Tweet (85) and then later by me (214). The rest of their posts also just aren't very interesting and don't really seem like they necessarily should come from a town POV. Also the wagon seems pretty pure to me.

Emperor flippyNips
I'm glad you asked, nips. 196 pinged me as easily coming from scum trying to dumbtell. While sheep said the shamelessness of 66 is towny (97), I don't really agree. I think it's an easier post to make as scum than it is as town. We also even see that the shamelessness doesn't really extend that far. In 236 Emperor makes a jokey "tl;dr" post but backtracks shortly after in 239, which betrays the idea that he doesn't care about optics. He shades Goofball in 234 and even says "Let's kill 'em!" in 237 but immediately goes to nullreading basically everybody but Daisy in 242, which is one of the easier townreads. There's also just a lot of posts that feel empty/don't really go anywhere (195, 197, 201, 268).

The bristep123 wagon is fine, and quite tempting, given a lot of my townreads are on it. My heart wants to vote Emperor though. So...

VOTE: Emperor flippyNips

[towwl]

I mean i was asking why they were being voted cos I actually wanted to know. Then no one answered me but element saying cos they are or something like that. Wtf is there for me to go on there

Spoiler: Daisy's case

VOTE: Oopsiedaisy

Doing pre-work before the game? Puts us all to shame.

Ok reading between the lines here tells me Bristep is maybe a lil intimidated by the fact that I've read that game and thus have a slight advantage over them in terms of meta knowledge. This pings slightly scummy to me, so I'm gonna persue this read.

UNVOTE: Elements
VOTE: Bristep

And you can be scum number 1

If you think Bristep is currently scum number 1, why haven't you voted there?

I agree with you on that (not exactly a OMGUS but paraphrasing) although it pinged me as slightly scummy that your first reaction was "my post was a joke, I'll try not to joke anymore" as opposed to anything else

Why alter your play because someone found you suspicious? Plus like, you weren't really responding to what oopsy said more so much as reacting dejectedly, maybe to change oopsy's mind. Admittedly what oopsy was arguing was a stretch but i think it would have been relatively easy to argue against

Tweet put it better than I could, my read on Bristar is getting gradually worse. I also feel like they're reacting differently then the stoic town Bristar I remember from reading 2300. It seemed like an emotionally motivated move to throw out the "Oh I can't joke now?" post and Bri in 2300 was one of the least emotional players in the game iirc. Again I'm basing this read off of a thread I skimmed through for funsies so if Gera thinks I'm mischaracterising here let me know, but from what I remember this is weird.

Daisy is what set the wagon off in the first place. Really all of the reasoning for the wagon lies in Daisy's ISO. geraintm, sheep, Elements, and Morning Tweet all jumped on this wagon without much reasoning worth highlighting (though Tweet did try to engage with bristar in 84 and 85). Then later STD and I posted walls that included reasons for scumreading bristar:

Spoiler: Save The Dragons's case

bristep

i guess 47 kind of feels a little stilted

Oopsie, I’ll take stoic, because I feel I’ve been more considered and quiet because I’m not sure of my skill as a player. I get more comfortable in later days where there is more evidence and trails to follow. I would also note that I’ve come back from a long long gap and the 4 games I’ve completed were as town, I’ve yet to roll scum so there isn’t really a game for you to get a real tell on whether I would play any differently.

this is fine

Karma (I think) - I’ve no strong feelings on the wagon on me yet but it has been noted and I will keep it in consideration later.

im a little hesitant to believe there's no strong feelings or any feelings worth sharing

As much as weak hop-ons ping me I’m also curious about those who have town read me without any real explanation as well because that could easily be setting up for the town flip if I’m eliminated -‘see, I was right’.

who are are you wary of town reading you

Spoiler: My case

bristep123
I don't like the deflection given in 82, saying there were other things to start a wagon on that weren't bristep's 43, but not elaborating on what the juicier targets may be, even after being asked by Morning Tweet (85) and then later by me (214). The rest of their posts also just aren't very interesting and don't really seem like they necessarily should come from a town POV. Also the wagon seems pretty pure to me.

Now that I've compiled a history of the bristar wagon for you, what do you think, Emperor?

[towwl]

I guess I'll also clarify, in the interest of not misrepping anybody, that it's a bit of a stretch to call STD's analysis a scum case on bristar, though he does end up leaning scum on bri.

[towwl]

285, Towwl vote EFN....going with heart over Bris (who is the leading wagon)), Element who actually lied....I dont like this vote, it is very "cover my bases". You get credit for not likely people, but dont vote them when it could matter.

What does an EFN vote do at this point?

Simple: I think he's the most likely to be scum, so I voted for him. I did a bit of a meta dive on nips as well and it didn't do much to alleviate my concerns about his slot. Maybe if I really like his response to 290 I'll reconsider rejoining the Elements wagon or joining the bristar wagon but for now this is where I stay, and the people unvoting right now are more than welcome to join me.

[towwl]

@curiouskarmadog, do you have any townreads you'd like to share?

[towwl]

@karmadog

You are rightness had no good reason to vote them. I checked if I had a reason not to vote them,but as I didn't have one I joined everyone else

that was awhile ago, thoughts now? who is scum?

I have nonidea who is scum. How would I know who it is on day 1?

Do you have any idea who might be town?

[towwl]

give me the case, Ill change my vote if you can sale me. Dont say, "look at my post Y", give me your case a new. I want to see that people ACTUALLY believe in their vote.

Regarding EFN, look at my post 285

Anyways I just see him posting nothing. The most he's done so far is ask DGB a question then note that he never got a response, but then didn't do anything about that. Everything else just seems like posturing to me, particularly the contrast between him painting himself as somebody who doesn't care in 66 and 236 but then obviously caring showing himself to care about optics in 239.

I did a bit of a meta dive on him since posting 285 and I didn't really find anything to tell me that this is his town game. He even says in the scum PT of mini normal 2299 that his "playstyle changes drastically" (link), and I am inclined to believe that we're seeing the scum playstyle right now.

[towwl]

Hu Tao, what do you think of Emperor and Elements?

[towwl]

Hu Tao, what do you think of Emperor and Elements?

Naughty point for you
Don't ask others their opinions like that

What do you think of Emperor and Elements?

[towwl]

okay, fair enough, now that we have some real content I'll get some reads going tonight when I get back home.

Hello?

[towwl]

I'm not reading 294

Did you read 285?

[towwl]

I like your EFN reasonsing too, I'll hop on that if the wagon grows

Everybody is saying the EFN wagon is viable but refusing to hop on. Feeling very lonely

[towwl]

The Emperor wagon is fine, I'm not gonna be offended if it happens cause Emperor isn't giving us much in the way of activity at all and I read the slot null, but that flip is gonna tell us a lot less than an Erinys or Elements one imo.

Bristar hasn't given us much in the way of activity either; in fact, even less. I'm not convinced that a bri/hpe flip necessarily tells us any more than an Emperor flip. IMO there's more texture to the reads that people have given to Emperor. hpe's slot has been basically just SR'd by everybody the whole game. There's not a lot to go off of there. (Though I do agree with DGB that hpe has felt scummy).


There's a lot to work from with an Elements flip as Elements has commented on basically everybody and basically everybody has commented on Elements, but at the same time I feel like I've seen more arguments from you as to why Elements is town rather than scum lately, particularly in 372. Also your reasoning for your current push on Elements has been mainly focused on game progression rather than a strong belief that Elements is scum (326). I'm not convinced that you're convinced of the Elements wagon.

[towwl]

I’m the only person to actually give HT a town read, and everybody who’s voted HT so far has a history of scum reading that slot. I don’t really see this wagon as being that suspect.

That said I still think there are better targets than HT. It seems like there’s too much resistance to an Emperor wagon (which I still don’t quite understand because it seems people generally see him as scummy) so I guess it’s time for me to switch.

Bri/HPE is an even better target now that we have activity from HPE and it’s very scummy and has done nothing to alleviate my concerns about scum!bristar.

VOTE: HPE

[towwl]

Also since we're gonna be getting near the point soon, could we announce intents to hammer before we do so the players have a chance to claim? Or is that not something people are a fan of?

That’s standard procedure

[towwl]

Hu Tao was wrongly voted out

Just to be clear, Hu Tao wasn't voted out in that game, they survived to the end.

[towwl]

pagebottom

[towwl]

My big gripe right now is that people seem to be allergic to elaborating on their reads/making cases in any way because this one is apparently the uberscum but no one will really fucking tell me or anyone else

why

.

Phoneposting in the office rn. I’ll write up a case once I’m home

[towwl]

My big gripe right now is that people seem to be allergic to elaborating on their reads/making cases in any way because this one is apparently the uberscum but no one will really fucking tell me or anyone else

why

.

Phoneposting in the office rn. I’ll write up a case once I’m home

I think town would more easily brush off making a post like 374. Honestly I didn't even find the post that "bad", I just didn't really understand it. But instead of just letting it go, HPE further digs a hole in 375 and 376 in a weird "haha silly me" act that I'm interpreting more as self-imposed flailing in a strange overabundance of caution, rather than town embarrassed by a bad post. It's a really bad entrance.


380 pings me as a weird distancing from the slot's previous inhabitant. I don't even really find it that bad when somebody agrees with reasoning for scumreading them and I never really took to that part of Daisy's case, but HPE takes that part at face value and postures as being baffled by bri's agreement. It feels performative, as there really isn't anything to be baffled by, but 380 makes it out to be a much bigger deal than it is.


417 and 444 are kind of interesting, as we see a scumread on DGB building up, but in 444 we see HPE is "displeased" to see that we can't necessarily scumread DGB for her strange playstyle, as that's just the way she is. At first I found this kind of towny as I find meta dives kind of towny, but on the other hand this contradicts with 376 where HPE says "this one doesn't put much stock into meta it has not directly played with". So then why the disappointment at a meta dive invalidating a possible scum push? It just doesn't add up for me.

Also I can pretty easily see bristar just being flakey scum.

[towwl]

I think town would more easily brush off making a post like 374. Honestly I didn't even find the post that "bad", I just didn't really understand it. But instead of just letting it go, HPE further digs a hole in 375 and 376 in a weird "haha silly me" act that I'm interpreting more as self-imposed flailing in a strange overabundance of caution, rather than town embarrassed by a bad post. It's a really bad entrance.

This one literally just read the post wrong after sleeping horridly late, waking up and having to deal with my idiot grandpa's shit which isn't appropriate to talk about here. Which it also mentions in that chain of posts. If you wanna read some weird scum defense strategy or whatever from this one talking about that at length like that, sure go ahead! Just know you're kinda missing the entire deal with my first day.

This doesn't really alleviate my worries unfortunately. Sorry your grandpa sucks and RL is less than ideal, but that doesn't really change how I read 374-376.

380 pings me as a weird distancing from the slot's previous inhabitant. I don't even really find it that bad when somebody agrees with reasoning for scumreading them and I never really took to that part of Daisy's case, but HPE takes that part at face value and postures as being baffled by bri's agreement. It feels performative, as there really isn't anything to be baffled by, but 380 makes it out to be a much bigger deal than it is.

Correct! It's kind of minor, even discounting differences in if you think it's weird or not to agree with scumreads, because this one is now aware that it's basically just "hey you're alot more sensitive this game compared to the last" "yea", but this one was again, kind of having a bad day and was skimming at best.

Yeah, that's fair enough.

417 and 444 are kind of interesting, as we see a scumread on DGB building up, but in 444 we see HPE is "displeased" to see that we can't necessarily scumread DGB for her strange playstyle, as that's just the way she is. At first I found this kind of towny as I find meta dives kind of towny, but on the other hand this contradicts with 376 where HPE says "this one doesn't put much stock into meta it has not directly played with". So then why the disappointment at a meta dive invalidating a possible scum push? It just doesn't add up for me.

It's a really basic metadive to make and one that doesn't really infringe on my already not like

hard

rule of meta this one has observed being the main meta it cares about. Like, go ahead and read some of her games yourself, you'll pretty quickly find her posts are usually in the same laconic "X is Town." fashion as this game. This one isn't going to erroneously push a slot it literally fucking knows is Just Like That even if it wanted to prior, because it has no reason to keep that scumread at all.

Yeah, I guess that's fair enough. I'm still pinged a little bit about being disappointed at losing a scumread, but this at least clears up my perception of a contradiction.

Conclusion: damn dude. thats some industrial grade assumption of scum intentions. ouch.

Don't like this at all though!

[towwl]

Still leaning scum on HPE but @Morning Tweet if you want to fire up the Emperor wagon again I'm all aboard

[towwl]

I’ll be a min

It has been 379 minutes

[towwl]

I’ll be a min

It has been 379 minutes

I found the engineer.

[towwl]

(I guess bar Erinys but my sus read on that slot is way more based on Bri anyways)

What do you think of Erinys so far? Has it changed your read on the slot at all?

[towwl]

VOTE: hpe

I think HPE might be at E-1 with this?

[towwl]

VOTE: hpe

I think HPE might be at E-1 with this?

NVM it's at E-2, I forgot gera moved to DGB

[towwl]

I’ll be a min

It has been 379 minutes

I found the engineer.

how many minutes has it been now

1158

[towwl]

Ok, here's a question. If Hu Tao is scum, who are the buddies?

First let's go through who has only SR'd/voted HT:
HPE, Elements, DGB, STD, Firebringer, Morning Tweet. I'm reluctant to say a partner is in here because I really don't think HT is that good of a Day1 bus target when there are so many viable alternative wagons. I guess if HPE/HT is scum/scum then a self-pres bus vote makes sense. Maybe Firebringer would bus here because I just can't read that slot at all right now. The rest I don't see a pairing.

Emperor/HT has basically no interaction, but then again Emperor basically has no interaction with anybody. Could be possible.

gera has just rvs voted HT, not much interaction there, maybe that's a partner. I just don't think gera is scum!


sheep SRs HT in 257, kinda TRs HT in 472, then says a HT wagon is fine in the very next post. Could be a partner. But also sheep is just feel very town. Idk.

Daisy consistently scumreads HT but pushes against the wagon because she thinks it's a bad wagon. Kinda sus, could be a partner, but I also find it hard to see Daisy being scum.


ckd and HT don't have much interaction other than what's seen in 426. I suppose I could see it being scum theater, but it's kinda misplaced in hindsight as HT has gotten a lot of heat for the whole "180" remark. I also townread ckd

I'm one of the only players to say I think HT is town, but I can't be the partner because I'm town.

It's easiest for me to see HT buddies in HPE and Emperor and I suppose that could be possible. When I started on this post I thought I would come to the conclusion that HT is town because I can't find a partner but I guess I didn't get there. Whatever! HT is a fine wagon. Would like to know what other people think.

[towwl]

It's easiest for me to see HT buddies in HPE and Emperor and I suppose that could be possible

Hm, I don't think scum!HPE would even mention scum!Emperor in 556 though. Certainly that could happen, but it's so much easier to just omit your partners in a post like that I don't see much of a reason not to. So assuming scum!HT and 3 scum, I think the solve would be somewhere in HT/{HPE, Emperor}/{Firebringer, gera, sheep, Daisy, ckd}. Maybe a bit wild to be doing speculation like this D1. Just trying to see how this is possible.

[towwl]

This is some +town speculaiton form towwl

Unfortunately it's mostly bunk because I still think HT is more likely to flip green ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[towwl]

good morning everybody

[towwl]

I Wanna try but my energy level for this game has been so low

I am currently sending you lots of energy via the astral plane so you shouldn't have any excuse now

[towwl]

We're coming near the end of the day people!!! What's made the game so slow? Is it that every time somebody is pushed their activity plummets? Is it that we're just going after town so scum is calm? Are we all just busy? Tired? Do we just not really disagree with each other enough? I don't know. Somebody else should tell me what to think and then maybe I'll have an opinion, because at least then we'll have a bit more activity.

Anyways I don't really have many thoughts when nobody is posting so here I'll just dump my spreadsheet for people to look at and maybe they can draw conclusions from it to share. There's basically no analysis in here as I'm trying to keep it as pure of a snapshot of people's reads of each other as I can so I have a good reference when thinking about the game. but obviously I'm going to miss things or misread things.

Here I'm just noting where people lean one way or the other or explicitly nullread each other, not many other kinds of interactions are noted.



pedit: sudden burst of activity from HT as I write this. Maybe I'm a little sus of OD that she's on top of new activity the instant there's something interesting happening but also I guess I can't sus her that much since I'm doing the exact same thing. Whatever. I'm still posting this mess.

[towwl]

pedit: sudden burst of activity from HT as I write this. Maybe I'm a little sus of OD that she's on top of new activity the instant there's something interesting happening but also I guess I can't sus her that much since I'm doing the exact same thing. Whatever. I'm still posting this mess.

What's suspicious about being on top of new activity? Haven't I been doing that the entire game lol

With how quiet things have been we've all been doing it. Really it's easiest to just let the thread simmer, and I think just correct to do that when you're largely townread and town is slated to be voted out. But I shouldn't even be making this observation because it also applies very well to me lol

[towwl]

UNVOTE:

[towwl]

Need time to think and I don't like HPE being at E-2 with a claim from the counterwagon at this hour

[towwl]

Well let me try to pick back up where I left off. If that starts to drain me maybe I’ll just hang out from here

VOTE: Emperor I'll go back here for now

Spoiler:

[towwl]

or maybe VOTE: Elements

[towwl]

I don't really know mech stuff so somebody help me understand why it would ever be correct to yeet HT tonight. Aren't they just the NK? If they're scum we'll pretty easily figure that out between surviving too many nights and giving bunk results. I don't get why HPE/Tweet are both still pushing HT

[towwl]

Wdym by correct to let the thread simmer when you're townread and town is slated to be voted out

I could just be totally wrong since i'm inexperienced, but I think in a situation where A. you're scum, B. you're townread, C. the wagons are all town, and D. nobody is posting, it's best to join everybody and continue to not post and just actively lurk. Like just don't rock the boat.

In my experience scum does not kill players who claim PR on X-2

he'll be roleblocked or claim to be roleblocked and then you're at step one

I'm willing to wait though to see if that happens first but i dont think theres a scenario where hu tao ends up getting cleared for us

I forgot roleblocking was a thing >_>

[towwl]

i get that its vague so you can cchange your claim later but scum would want to be more precise = more honest = more towny

If Hu Tao is scum, it's a great strategy to smoke out town investigative roles of every kind for counterclaiming.

People would counterclaim here?

[towwl]

Cos you’re town

TMI? hmmmmm?????

[towwl]

I find it interesting that Hu Tao's PR claim seems to have caused HPE to get a flurry of townreads.

MT has gone from a lot of varied noncommittal reads on HPE's slot (229, 263, 324, 413, 496, 499, 504) to seeing it as just towny/a bad vote (599, 612)


DGB has gone from scum (385, 441) to town (610)

Daisy has gone from HPE being her "#1 let's get this one outta here go! go! go!" target (288, 378, 462, 516) to "let's try something else" (616, 633, 635)

Firebringer has said they won't vote HPE since the claim (617) but they were indicating as much earlier (406). Still worth bringing up though I think.

At the very least, the argument that HPE is a bad vote due to only being scumread is dead at this point. We're getting more texture to the reads directed to that slot once it matters.

I'd like to know why HPE's been seen as particularly towny since 580 because I don't see anything really that's worth this kind of sea change.

[towwl]

@OopsieDaisy what do you think of Elements at the moment?

[towwl]

With the core of the wagon being you/me/ckd I think it's very possible for us to rally 4 more votes on Elements before the day ends.

Emperor is also a fine choice though of course. As is HPE.

[towwl]

Ok yeah you convinced me
VOTE: Emperor

[towwl]

If I'm now reading Erinys/HT/Emperor all as bad[...]

Here check out this beautiful table

HPE	EFN	HT	Verdict
town	town	town	if this is the case, well done so far scum
town	town	scum	assuming 3 scum i dont think HT has 2 partners outside of HPE/EFN (i say as much in 558), also i really think there's 1 scum in HPE/EFN
town	scum	town	very possible
town	scum	scum	very possible
scum	town	town	i think HPE is unpaired with EFN/HT, so for me this makes the most sense for scum!HPE
scum	town	scum	Idk why HPE/HT would do page 24 the way they did if they were both scum. hard for me to see
scum	scum	town	this perhaps lines up well with my reads but also I just think this is a tough sell because i dont think HPE/EFN are paired
scum	scum	scum	this is both too easy of a solve (theyve been the most sussed so far) and also too difficult of a solve (difficult pairings)

Idk how useful this is but I've spent too much time getting the bbcode to work to just not post this

[towwl]

If it’s emperor today and he flips green I’m probably going to want HPE out the most d2. I wish I could just obliterate these 2 slots

[towwl]

Intent to hammer whatever gets to e1

This seems fairly antitown even with just like 10 hours left

[towwl]

bruh this is the most shittest eod

what makes this eod particularly shitty? Asking as a newbie

[towwl]

VOTE: HPE

[towwl]

hu tao's activity patterns indicate he wont fucking come back lmao

Well I'm not voting a claimed Rolecop or Vig soooo wcyd

VOTE: Elements

[towwl]

I don't think both HPE and HT are green PRs. Not sure if we resolve that with a vote today though

[towwl]

I would switch to elements if it was enough, I would also kill hpe in order to get a lim today, rolecop doesn’t compare to vig in variety of ways

I'll sheep you at the very end if there's still no hammer

[towwl]

VOTE: elements

I would ask where we are at. I assume if that wasnt a hammer he is at -1?

towwl/daisy/ckd/hpe/sheep on elements right now

[towwl]

VOTE: Save The Dragons

First thought upon seeing who died

[towwl]

My town core right now is {me, ckd, emperor, oopsie}. Leaning town on {gera, sheep}.

Going to iso {DGB, STD, Firebringer, Tweet} and see what I think

[towwl]

VOTE: Save The Dragons

First thought upon seeing who died

Why’s that?

Mainly how wishy-washy STD in particular has been about Elements. "Wary" early on (174), nullish/noncommittal (335, 359, 368), then settling on probably just trolly town (368). Oopsie was wary of this pairing earlier as well (446)

[towwl]

Also as I'm reading through things I just need to note how funny it is that HPE/HT/Emperor are all town

[towwl]

Roughly zero percent chance they're all telling the truth

The liar was vt!Hu Tao

[towwl]

hey elements would u tell me if ur scum.
Can tell me in our secret pt no one knows about

HA, ha, ha

I claim deathproof cop with a n0 guilty on
Hu Tao
OopsieDaisy
and curiouskarmadog

these were my n0 cop checks
no where does it say ur innocent elements

I'll claim in our super secret chat then

aahahhaaha

[towwl]

List of things to scratch your chin to, from my D1 ISO of {Elements, DGB, STD, Firebringer/Merlyn, Tweet}

Spoiler:

74, 86, 182, 183: Tweet prods at Elements a bit for being flakey scum, ends up townreading her. I think this progression more or less makes sense, and it doesn't really seem like a scum/scum interaction.
178: Merlyn goes after CKD for his push on Elements
179: Merlyn says Elements' strategy is "lousy"
200: DGB's third post is a strong TR of Elements. Elements likes it (211)
286: STD collapses the "meh"-taverse, but leaves Elements as "i'm not sure".
313: I think this post from MT is really towny
324: But this readslist from MT is bad with Elements near the top and bri/HT/Emp at the bottom. But to be fair, these three were at the bottom of a lot of people's lists. Still worth noting I think.
359: STD says Elements is not careful enough to be scum, proposes "Merlyn/FB, hu tao, and bristep. maybe efn too".
368: STD says Elements is most likely to just be trolling town
395, 396: STD asks about Elements' early readslists/CKD read, and notes Elements' change in energy from start-of-day. I don't like either of these posts at all.
401: Firebringer claims scum and votes CKD
427: Tweet begins the HT wagon over HT being pinged by MT's Emp vote
433: DGB votes HT
434: Elements votes HT
443: STD votes HT
492: Elements votes DGB. This vote seems very much like a comedy vote. Not really sure how to read into it.
496, 499, 500, 503, 504: String of solve-y posts from MT. I think I like these posts a good bit.
507: FB jokey vote on Elements for Elements jokey vote on DGB. Imagine if the team is Elements/DGB/FB. That would be very funny.
523: STD votes HPE
525: Elements votes HPE
544: DGB says "The simple explanation is that Hu Tao is scum"
546: FB votes HT, in agreement with DGB. Further making the Ele/DGB/FB team very funny. Probably too funny to be true at this point.
577: Elements votes HT
594: MT unvotes HT
610: DGB will not vote HPE
612: MT doesn't like an HPE vote, Emp is a "shot in the dark", wants more from HT. Seems pretty unsure about all the leading wagons at this point.
617: Firebringer won't vote HPE (in accordance with DGB)
656: MT votes Emperor
660: DGB willing to vote Emperor
668: DGB goes "back and forth on HPE"
680: Elements declares "Intent to hammer whatever gets to e1"
687: DGB Really wants HT out
688: DGB says Elements isn't looking good
725: STD is ready to barrel through claims (near EoD, kinda justifiable I guess)
765: STD votes HPE
812: MT unvotes Emperor
815: MT votes HT (voted the liar, which is a plus I guess)
850, 851, 853: Firebringer is bored.
863: Firebringer thinks liar!HT is not alignment indicative
866, 868, 870: Firebringer very vaguely argues in favor of town!Elements and bringing her far into the game. Looks pretty bad
872: STD votes HT
891: FB claims PT with Elements. WTF?
905: FB will award town points to STD for scum!HT flip. I think this is indicative of something, but I'm not sure what of.
924: Elements claims PT with Firebringer

Feeling better about Morning Tweet after this, she feels very townie to me right now. Still don't really know what to think about DGB, maybe she's on the town side of null? Firebringer I feel a lot worse about. I still feel bad about STD.

[towwl]

178: Merlyn goes after CKD for his push on Elements

This one probably also deserves a

[towwl]

Who wants post 1000?

[towwl]

Not really a fan of the “who would kill HPE” discourse. It just feels like such a meaningless thread to pursue.

[towwl]

VOTE: Save The Dragons

First thought upon seeing who died

why STD?
and i was expecting more from you than this honestly, i assumed you would have a long post ready to go

I kind of did, but it was all under the assumption that HPE wouldn’t die and flip green >_>

[towwl]

hey elements would u tell me if ur scum.
Can tell me in our secret pt no one knows about

HA, ha, ha

I claim deathproof cop with a n0 guilty on
Hu Tao
OopsieDaisy
and curiouskarmadog

these were my n0 cop checks
no where does it say ur innocent elements

I'll claim in our super secret chat then

aahahhaaha

What do we think of this? Elements and Firebringer feel like the kinds of players that would do this together as scum

[towwl]

I'd rather my town core did not 1v1

[towwl]

i tr every other slot pretty much so i'm wrong

Who do you tr the least

[towwl]

i still kinda want to vote for dripping goofball

What's stopping you?

[towwl]

What does game lock mode mean

[towwl]

Lots of noise this page grumble grumble

[towwl]

my money would be Tweet and StD tbh

I'm curious to hear why your money's on Tweet in particular. I townlean her right now but I still have some paranoia there.

[towwl]

pagetop 3 streak

[towwl]

Go for it

[towwl]

I don't really have any thoughts right now so I'll try to squeeze some ramblings from my brain.

From what Emp is saying (that it's STD/FB right now) and the top wagon being STD, I feel like SoD3 we're going to be minus STD, FB, and Emperor. I get the feeling that we're all thinking something similar which makes it hard to get excited about filling the day with activity when that's the current understanding of how things are going to turn out, even if I'm not so sure what exactly the flips are going to be (I'm still feeling fairly confident at least one of them is flipping red though, STD a bit more so). Maybe somebody can tell me why my prediction here is wrong.

I'm thinking ckd and gera each arriving at the conclusion that oopsie is suspicious is enough to take her out of my town core. I still townread her but I'm not at the 100% I was at earlier anyways. Some paranoia is burgeoning towards that slot for me.

I would like to hear reasons for suspecting Morning Tweet, because she has appeared quite towny to me in the way she has been talking about the game; I go over her in my multi-iso (991) and just kinda find her posts to read as coming from a town POV. Oopsie says she needs to look into MT (955), ckd says he needs to look into MT (1145), gera says MT is naughty too (1131), and Firebringer's money is on the pair being STD/MT (1082). I'd really like to know what the results of your investigations are/reasons for scumreading her.

I'd like to know what sheep thinks about the game right now because he's been pretty quiet so far this day. @sheep who are your scumreads right now?

And also still waiting on STD's thoughts, which he's promised will be coming soon a few times (1009, 1047, 1096). Is he just in antispew right now?

Ok maybe I lied when I said I have no thoughts. That's a good amount of thoughts. Thoughts?

[towwl]

Oopsie have you found anything you'd like to share about Morning Tweet?

[towwl]

Ok maybe I lied when I said I have no thoughts. That's a good amount of thoughts. Thoughts?

i told u the game is in the bag so all the extra work people do is just

Give me some and tell me why I should vote MT

[towwl]

Actually my paranoia regarding OopsieDaisy is gone. She is town. Goodnight folks

[towwl]

I approve of e-1ifying

[towwl]

I don't think I mind too much if std gets hammered before a claim. Partially because I'm a bit impatient and partially because of what Firebringer has already said.

[towwl]

UNVOTE:

[towwl]

That claim was basically what I was anticipating as the worst case scenario

[towwl]

I don't believe STD but at the same time I don't want to vote him out today, I think we can look elsewhere.

Basically I'm thinking is doc!STD should just protect Emperor and die tonight, giving us another vig shot from Emperor. And then we figure out what to do Day 3 if STD is still alive. In the meantime we can look more into MT, DGB, or FB

[towwl]

That claim was basically what I was anticipating as the worst case scenario

How so?

I think Doc is particularly very valuable right now since we have an outted vig. So it's a very convenient claim for scum to make to survive one more day, but also I really really really do not want to risk voting out a doctor when the claim is there.

[towwl]

Like I feel like most other roles I would be fine with just barreling right through despite a claim. Doc was the only one I was anticipating to give me pause about voting out STD. scum!STD probably knows this and is why doc was the claim.

But at the same time I think even scum!STD fakeclaiming doctor gives us more of a chance for Emp to survive N2. So maybe this is not that bad. It's not like scum!STD surviving d2 means he wins the game.

[towwl]

Ugh unless roleblocking fucks things up? Like say Emp dies N2 and STD survives and says he was roleblocked. I don't think I'd believe him. I feel like Emp getting a shot off last night indicates scum doesn't have a roleblock. Or at least they didn't have a roleblock N1. aargh

[towwl]

Yeah I think we just vote out STD on D3 if Emp dies N2.

VOTE: Firebringer

[towwl]

poke is good

[towwl]

Anyways a quick review of why I think fb is scum:

1. Merlyn questioning CKD during CKD's early push on Elements (178)
2. Firebringer very vaguely arguing in favor of not killing Elements (866)
3. Firebringer and Elements openwolfing together (891, 924)
4. Firebringer arguing against scumhunting d2 (1080, 1158)

As far as point 4 though I was kind of feeling similar vibes with how the game was going at the time. That being said though now that we're not going after STD and D2/N2 doesn't seem like as sure of a thing as it did before, I'd like FB to tell us why we should vote for MT instead of FB.

[towwl]

Well shit. Now I don’t get to shoot fire tonight

Eh, maybe

[towwl]

When I first read FB's nka in 962-968 I first was thinking it was pretty townie, but reading it again now I'm pinged by the short amount of time between the posts, particularly saying he's going to investigate who Emp was going to kill in 964 and then doing that analysis and coming to a conclusion 2 minutes later in 966. At the very least, I'm not capable of thinking that fast. Makes me think premeditation is involved and the thought process isn't so natural.

[towwl]

You don't even need to try to convince me about anything. I'd just like to know what pings you about Tweet

[towwl]

Ok thank you ty thanks

[towwl]

As lose as Fire is playing, Wouldnt FireScum have hammer STDtown?

Not necessarily. I think scum would easily be able to wait for town to hammer a green std.

They also could be scum together no?

[towwl]

As much as I'd rather not vote STD out tonight for reasons I've already said, I'd still rather vote out STD than Oopsie.

[towwl]

As lose as Fire is playing, Wouldnt FireScum have hammer STDtown?

Not necessarily. I think scum would easily be able to wait for town to hammer a green std.

They also could be scum together no?

Okay counter argument time because i think this is obvious:
Emperoer says gonna shoot me tonight anyways, so what lose does scum me have from just hammering StD if i knew i was going to die

counter counter argument to my original argument:
What if im trying to secretly convince Emperor to not shoot me so im holding out for that townie to hammer std for me to look clean and avoid getting shot.

hm maybe I believe counter argument enough to believe std/fb are unpaired

[towwl]

Ugh I'm sorry.

Been busy with survivor meet prepping and work is hectic as well so I can't do what I normally do which is play at work

I'm a novice doctor.

I also dont believe he has been busy...

between his last post (before the above)

i tr every other slot pretty much so i'm wrong

Who do you tr the least

firebringer i guess? im gonna try to look at some isos though probably tomorrow at work to see if i can come up with something i feel more confident in

he posted 14 times and 5 different times.

there hasnt been much action in here during that time.

more likely than not, they decided in their scum thread for him to back off here, and crafted this WAY TOO convenient claim.

my vote stays.

This is really compelling

[towwl]

Adding my last two posts together, FB ought to be town then. Hm.

UNVOTE: Firebringer
VOTE: DrippingGoofball

Even if I think it's like a 90% chance of STD being scum right now, I really don't want to live in that 10% universe and vote him out today. I think our time is better spent gunning for a partner. I'm split between DGB and MT right now so I'm getting DGB on the board here.

[towwl]

the façade slips, revealing he does, in fact, care

[towwl]

OK here's a readslist

townie af:
towwl
Emperor flippyNips
curiouskarmadog
OopsieDaisy
sheepsaysmeep (this is the only slot where I'm worried about a possible deepwolf getting by)

probably town:
geraintm

idk lol:
Firebringer

sus (kinda ordered but they're all about the same to me as I write this):
Morning Tweet
DrippingGoofball

scum:
Save The Dragons

The POE right now is really quite narrow and I think getting 2 more vig shots basically locks the game for us, so that's what I'm aiming for. I really think letting STD live today raises our chance of getting another vig shot which is ++EV, as it forces the POE further up into a very large town core. Getting 2 vig shots is basically lights out for scum even if there is a deep wolf and I only really see 2 vig shots coming when we don't yeet STD today. Like if by SoD4 {fb, mt, dgb, std} are all dead with only two town core gone and town somehow still hasn't won, we'd be in a final 4 with probably {towwl/ckd, oopsie, sheep, gera} and it should be pretty easy from there I think. Would be even easier if I was in that final 4.

Basically I'm thinking:
STD is scum, we vote STD today: -1 scum, -1 vig (NK) by SoD (probably 1 vig shot, basically neutral)
STD is scum, we don't vote STD today: Maybe scum gambits by letting Emp live another day, getting us another vig shot. (2 vig shots) Maybe we hit scum outside of STD. As far as -EV here maybe STD is investigative scum and is able to get vital info from town, but I think scum already has the most vital info they could possibly have which is that Emp is vig. Worst case STD has a roleblock tonight and is able to stop Emp tonight where he couldn't day1 or if he was dead, giving us 0 vig shots. Hm worst case is really bad. I think it's fairly unlikely though? also it might just be the case that the other scum is the RBer here anyways.
STD is town, we vote STD today: -1 doc, -1 vig (probably 1 vig shot, feels really bad even if it's low% chance of happening)
STD is town, we don't vote STD today: vig is safe, we get one more vig shot (probably 2 vig shots). STD dies at night or scum gambits by letting STD live for big brain reasons (not bad at all)

But then again I guess maybe there is a town doc that isn't STD and isn't bothering to counterclaim because of how likely it is that STD is scum anyways and that gives us probably even more than 2 vig shots. Not like that doc can't do anything if STD lives another day though. Roleblocking shenanigans of course mess up everything but I still think it's fairly unlikely scum has a roleblock since Emp was able to get a shot off last night.

It's also funny for us to drag along basically confscum for another day I think.

Anyways sorry for the rambling mechthoughts wall. I'll do some scumhunting within {dgb, mt} later today as that's where my mind is at right now.

[towwl]

As lose as Fire is playing, Wouldnt FireScum have hammer STDtown?

Not necessarily. I think scum would easily be able to wait for town to hammer a green std.

They also could be scum together no?

Okay counter argument time because i think this is obvious:
Emperoer says gonna shoot me tonight anyways, so what lose does scum me have from just hammering StD if i knew i was going to die

counter counter argument to my original argument:
What if im trying to secretly convince Emperor to not shoot me so im holding out for that townie to hammer std for me to look clean and avoid getting shot.

hm maybe I believe counter argument enough to believe std/fb are unpaired

wait what's wrong with a scum!fb/scum!StD world am i missing something

Basically STD is going to die either today or tomorrow so FB locking himself in Emp's crosshairs is just completely game losing for scum if they're both red. Maybe there's reverse reverse reverse psychology going on but that's too deep for me. I'm just assuming 1 is green between the two for now. I expect them both to be dead by D4 anyways.

[towwl]

Anyways tldr my preferences for the yeet today as I write this comment is DGB, then MT, then STD, which is weird because STD is the highest % chance to be scum right now but I still stand by that.

I really have to get work done though and even if it's tempting to just play mafia while sitting in an empty office I came here specifically so that I'd be able to blitz through my work for this week without the distractions of my home office so I'm going to try my best to go quiet for the next 8 hours and actually be productive IRL. peace

[towwl]

why do people value a vig shot so highly?

this is a time though where others are better at this game than me and i just dont get the common wisdom

scum kill the towniest players, town kills the scummiest players, so if we make it to Elo we'll be left with the three most so-so players. A vig shot lets us kill more scummy players than scum can kill townie players, so the chance of us even making it to Elo is lower and if even we do make it to Elo there's a greater chance of their being basically conftown people still alive, making Elo much easier for town to make it through.

Basically vig shots are generally good even if they hit green because they accelerate how fast we narrow down the PoE, which scum kills don't really do because they target people towny people.

[towwl]

well a DGB kill gets us little to no information (other than me not thinking we should kill her). an STD flip (either way) provides a ton of information.

What does a green STD flip give us other than -1 doctor? A red flip doesn't even give us that much because I feel like we're basically operating under the understanding that STD is most likely to flip red regardless of what happens in these next couple of days. A red flip on STD wouldn't really change how I view the game anyways. DGB is a wildcard right now and the buildup of her wagon and her flip I think would be more valuable.

towwl, your thoughts on OD and sheep deferring to you?

OD I don't mind too much because we've been on a similar wavelength most of this game and she's been contributing plenty this D2. Sheep on the other hand I'd like to see more from other than just agreeing with me. No real urgency there though since he's VLA and I'm not interested in sheep becoming the center of attention today. Worth putting a pin in for now at the very least.

If I'm going to be town leader today though I will direct my subjects to convince the rest of town to vote for one of DGB, MT, or FB today so I don't need to put in that much work, thank you.

[towwl]

MY case on DGB really just boils down to PoE at this point. I'm town, emp is town, ckd has gotta be town, oopsies surely town, sheep seems very town, I feel like gera is town. STD is probably scum, but I'm giving him a pass for now, so then there's at least 1 more in FB/DGB/MT. Firebringer is probably going to die N2 anyways, so then we look at MT and DGB and MT just has a lot of posts that make me think she is town, so I feel best putting a vote down on DGB since I have the least reason to townread her over anybody else I'd be interested in being the yeet today.

[towwl]

MY case on DGB really just boils down to PoE at this point. I'm town, emp is town, ckd has gotta be town, oopsies surely town, sheep seems very town, I feel like gera is town. STD is probably scum, but I'm giving him a pass for now, so then there's at least 1 more in FB/DGB/MT. Firebringer is probably going to die N2 anyways, so then we look at MT and DGB and MT just has a lot of posts that make me think she is town, so I feel best putting a vote down on DGB since I have the least reason to townread her over anybody else I'd be interested in being the yeet today.

as long as Firebringer is the agreed Vig, then i will follow the plan to DGB

So that's me and Daisy on DGB right now, sheep says he'll sheep me today, you are open to DGB, and I feel like Emperor would join us(?). That's 5, need one more.

Firebringer won't vote DGB. Our sixth would need to be from either Tweet or ckd. @Tweet,ckd, is this doable today or a non-starter?

[towwl]

Or maybe STD could even join us, how about it STD?

[towwl]

or we can kill scum versus trying to work with them.

If you were open to a DGB vote there'd be no need for it!

[towwl]

We are in total agreement that STD is most likely to flip scum. I just don't think we should vote for him today.

And to be clear I'd still be fine with an STD yeet at the end of the day if we're not able to get a majority on DGB. I think either way town is on a pretty likely path to victory, I just think we have a higher % chance if we yeet DGB today instead.

[towwl]

That’s what I meant

ping

[towwl]

I'm also open to the plan of voting not-STD out today (probably DGB) and letting Emperor shoot STD tonight

[towwl]

I guess if he is a doc I’m protected again tonight. But if he’s gonna die anyway let’s get it over with. Why wait.

The whole idea behind not voting him out today is to minimize the chance that you die N2. I don't think there's any rush in voting out STD specifically.

[towwl]

I'm also open to the plan of voting not-STD out today (probably DGB) and letting Emperor shoot STD tonight

We could always leave it ambiguous? If StD is lying about doctor and scum kill is mandatory (@mod is this the case or not?), scum will have to try and sink a kill tonight to give StD's claim legitimacy, and thus will have to try and follow Emperor's vig shot. Muddying the waters on who Emperor is shooting might help us out an StD lie.

Thankfully I'm not deciding who Emp shoots :P

[towwl]

That’s E-1. I’m not gonna hammer because I still think my plan is preferable

[towwl]

It's a good plan

[towwl]

UNVOTE: DrippingGoofball
VOTE: Morning Tweet

We can try this wagon out I suppose.

[towwl]

It's a pattern from the beginning of the game, it's not recent.

Errmmmm, actually

Spoiler: chart

Day1 MT avg posts/day: 5.8
Day2 MT avg posts/day: 1.8

[towwl]

Thanks

[towwl]

I now understand what you were saying

[towwl]

MT is missing many opportunities to sheep the prevailing winds and help hasten a wagon.

Anyways I don't think this is a good reason to townread MT. 819 can definitely be read as an opportunistic vote. After HPE's vote (816) Elements had {towwl, oopsie, ckd, hpe} and HT had {dgb, fb, ele}. MT tied the wagons at a pretty key moment with 819.

[towwl]

My preferences for the lim is still DGB -> MT -> STD. The wagon is on MT right now because it might be the case that getting her wagon through is easier than DGB. Either lim I'm happy with though and I'm always willing to switch my vote to the more viable of the two.

[towwl]

It would be pretty cool & awesome of you gera if you voted MT regardless :)

[towwl]

My preferences for the lim is still DGB -> MT -> STD. The wagon is on MT right now because it might be the case that getting her wagon through is easier than DGB. Either lim I'm happy with though and I'm always willing to switch my vote to the more viable of the two.

That's pretty opportunistic LOL

So basically you think MT is mah bud'?

I don't think your paired. I mean I guess it's not impossible that you're paired but that's not what I'm thinking right now.


Basically I think STD is scum but I don't want to vote him out today (1286). Instead I'm looking for STD's partner and I've got horse blinders on for everybody but you and Morning Tweet. I'd hammer you or MT in a heartbeat so I'm just trying to get one of these two wagons over the line and I don't

really

care which one it is in particular even if I find you a bit scummier.

[towwl]

Yea

[towwl]

I personally disagree with towwl on dgb

like obviously dgb doesnt do anything insanely villagery that exits poe

but I think wolves are in a pretty bad position. and I think a wolf!dgb in a bad position would be playing differently. might seem like a wifomy read, but he doesnt look like he's trying to appear villager or influence things. he's just flopping around but still not explaining stuff very much and trying to convince people; just saying what he thinks. gut is very confident that it's villager lol would rather kill other people today

This is enough to make me not want to vote DGB today. I also buy the argument from DGB that she'd be a lot quicker to vote out not-STD given the doc claim if she was scum.

[towwl]

Happy father's day

Morning Tweet is at E-1 right now. If somebody moves off her wagon before a hammer comes in idk if this wagon has the gas to get through in the end. MAYBE if I am even more annoying about this whole thing it could reignite but I'd be quite happy if somebody came along and hammered MT before the opportunity goes away so I don't have to be annoying about it.

[towwl]

Pretty much, yeah

[towwl]

I'm assuming as much. Nobody has indicated that they don't think STD is scum.

[towwl]

well at least maf vigs aren’t normal

[towwl]

VOTE: morjjng tweet

I am going with the lead of others I think are town and believe in their plan

Thanks for coming around. You won't regret it!! The plan(tm) is foolproof

[towwl]

This might be a long twilight lol

[towwl]

My favorite post in this game occurred in the neighborhood.

Also on the wiki it says being a neighbor is kind of useless in the hands of an unskilled player. Which is unfortunate

<3