Mini Normal 2300: THIS GAME HAS A VIG [game over]

[Greeting]

Checking in!

wait greeting is a player and not a typo oh my god

lol

[Greeting]

{Invisibility}
{patchwork, Black}
{Not Known 15}
{geraintm, Venmar, T3, Greeting}
{Malakittens, bristep123}

This readslist smells like bs.

VOTE: Umlaut

[Greeting]

I think

Malakittens

deserves a townlean for the time being.

Reasons being:

- her meta in this game so far matches her usual town meta;
- she was put at E-1 in the first few pages of RVS, which I don't think is likely to happen for a scum member.

VC 1.03

Malakittens

(5): Venmar, Black, Umlaut, geraintm, Not Known 15

This wagon has got to have at least one scum in it, and I don't think that a scum team would want to put their teammate in danger.

[Greeting]

y'know what I don't like Bris. Their posts are either not moving the game forward or are just reiterating a point stated by someone else but with less confidence.

VOTE: Bristep

I re-read their ISO and I get where your impression comes from. But this could very well be talkative town. I say this player needs to be evaluated later.

[Greeting]

I didn't like how Greeting just said that "this readlist smells like bs" without explanation.

Do you think that readslist can be defended?

[Greeting]

framing his read on Mala like it was something bigger than it actually is

wdym by this?

I didn't like how Greeting didn't get straight to the point with his read. It seemed like he used a lot of words to express what is basically a statement of fact.

So you didn't like it when I explained my

Malakittens

read, but when I didn't explain my

Umlaut

read you also didn't like it?

[Greeting]

I didn't like how Greeting just said that "this readlist smells like bs" without explanation.

Do you think that readslist can be defended?

I think it can, and I also don't see how that's relevant to the discussion at hand.

Not really, the people saying it was BS were at least partially right in that I just sort of threw that together without thinking too hard about it.

[Greeting]

Greeting, do you think Umlaut is scum?

I think this wagon is worth pursuing, but it's not my only scumread as of now.

[Greeting]

Not really, the people saying it was BS were at least partially right in that I just sort of threw that together without thinking too hard about it. Something about Mala's posts thru 69 or so felt like writing a lot and acting engaged without really saying anything. It was and is a weak reason for a vote and I'm happy to move from it but didn't really have any better ideas

i don't feel like mafia would admit this

Yeah, I thought

Umlaut

could get a town point for admitting it. But still, I honestly don't like the reads. I mean, putting

Not Known 15

above null? I just don't really see it as warranted or justfiable. I also completely disagree with his evaluation of

Mala

.

Also, I really dislike how the wagon on me appeared suddenly only when

Umlaut

reached E-2. Feels like a distraction.

[Greeting]

I don't remember playing with Invisibility before, I don't remember thr picture.

I checked their profile and it says they are 18. Is this hyperactive posting normal for them? I would say it gives me weird vibes, but vibes are not something anyone should be using to find scum. That should just be down to any investigators.

What vibes are you getting from them specifically?

[Greeting]

Hot take, the entire scum team is in this pool of players: {

Umlaut

,

T3

,

Not Known 15

and

bristep123

}.

The rest all give varying degrees of town vibes.

[Greeting]

Spoiler:

Black's #256 bothered me because a chunk of the wall is irrelevant comments ("Hi patch", "Cant believe we won death note", etc), a lot of it is just empty commentary to me ("not following these reads by Umlaut", "this feels a little fence-sitty from bris", etc) that feels like Black trying to find a reason to be productive and useful as !scum, like trying to fill a quota, rather than being a townie trying to focus on something and scumhunting, and a lot of the reads are just pretty non-committal and fencesitty in of themselves (see the comments to 153, 233, 120, etc) despite her criticizing others for the same.

Minimizing my catch-up post to "empty commentary" is pretty disingenuous. Did I solve the game? No, but I gave thoughts on most everything I felt was worthy of talking about. There's more content in that one post than you've provided all game. Even if it was empty it would still be better than no content at all

Her reasons for voting me are then also pretty poor since idk how she spends much of the post throwing shade at other players, some more than me like Umlaut, and then decided to single me out because I accidentally wrote down Greeting twice in my reads post and because I jokingly told people to sheep me with no context on Umlaut. Former reason is just bogus and the latter feels like manufactured outrage.

This reads as "Black's reasons to vote me are poor because those reasons could apply to other people so it doesn't make sense for them to vote for me"

What kind of opinion is this? Maybe if I had 3 votes I could spread them around to all the lurkers I think could be scum, but I don't. So you are my choice. There's nothing poor about that reasoning at all

It definitely feels like Black is really reaching and making a mountain out of a molehill by focusing on stuff like that

and taking advantage of the fact that I've decided to play passive

and have provided no context for me vibe reads which is a really easy playstyle to just blindly attack as scum with not much effort.

Yeah? Where have you stated that you made a conscious decision to play passive this game? To me this just sounds like an excuse for your lurking behavior. "Oh I decided to play passive this game". Yeah, wolves do that too. We're going to need stuff from you that shows us you're town if you're town

1. I was giving my opinion on your play. I don't think it was minimizing, your wall post wasn't particularly fat in content to begin with, it was mostly one sentence observations and many of them weren't very impressive unfortunately. I find that scum are more likely to appear active and "react" to content rather than generate content themselves or scumhunt actively, and the former is what your wall post looked like.

2. This is a weak response to my criticism, you basically admit that I am right that I'm not doing much else different from other "lurkers" (even though I dont think Ive lurked this game) and throw up your hands that you don't have 3 votes to vote them all. You make no attempt really to justify why me putting someone twice on my reads list twice or joking about people sheeping me was worthy for you to single me out. Nor do you address the fact that I feel like you shaded certain people like Umlaut more than me in that wall post.

3. This is a lot of nothing. I don't need to announce how I'm going to play, I just decided to play off vibes and as a playstyle thing I feel like it was the actual reason you pushed me since it made me an easy target. There's a lot of confirmation bias here too, "Yeah Scum like to be passive too", isn't really something that rings true to anyone but you because you want it to with regards to me.

"We're going to need stuff from you that shows us you're town if you're town" is also such a nothing statement and it irritates me usually when people say it, I always just interpret it as someone trying to deflect attention from themselves and put the onus of being townie and active on others rather than do these things themselves. Being townie comes naturally to those who are town, going out of your way to tell someone that they have to actively do it feels like scum telling people to give them reasons to TR them or to do things to pick at. I'd rather people just do whatever and pick at them good or bad for that.

Like, someone tell me that this isn't two townies arguing with each other about irrelevant stuff.

Black

's contributions are just written in a specific way. Some players like to organise and write their thoughts about the game going post by post and it's valid.

Venmar

did put me in twice at that list, but I don't see it as a grave mistake given that the margin of error was me being a townread or a null-townlean.

[Greeting]

I don't remember playing with Invisibility before, I don't remember thr picture.

I checked their profile and it says they are 18. Is this hyperactive posting normal for them? I would say it gives me weird vibes, but vibes are not something anyone should be using to find scum. That should just be down to any investigators.

What vibes are you getting from them specifically?

too excited player because they rolled scum and just want to keep on posting.

I'm really not seeing it. I feel like this kind of excitement is usually a sign of towniness. Excessive posting from scum usually looks like shitposting.

[Greeting]

Hot take, the entire scum team is in this pool of players: {

Umlaut

,

T3

,

Not Known 15

and

bristep123

}.

The rest all give varying degrees of town vibes.

This is a pretty spicy take but I don't have any issues with it atm. I'm curious what your thoughts are on T3

I'm kind of torn on this slot at the moment. I'm not townreading him, but he's also not my first choice for elimination today, and not even second. Maybe third or fourth.

I don't like the fact that he's not taking a proactive approach in this game, as I feel like this is how his meta usually looks like. I remember a game where I was scum and he was town, and I literally had to fight him off me as he was onto me for like most of Day 1. In this game, he's mostly hiding in the background and doing a good job avoiding any attention.

I disagree with his scumreads entirely, and his argumentation is, at times, inconsistent (394).

Nonetheless, there are some good things about this slot, most notably I like that he's continuing my train of thought on

Invisibility

(460), which is clearly calculated on exposing

geraintm

's thought patterns on this obviously town slot.

[Greeting]

Black

's contributions are just written in a specific way. Some players like to organise and write their thoughts about the game going post by post and it's valid.

I might have missed this, but how is that relevant in the quotes above and how does that change your read on Black?

My read of

Black

has not changed in any way and she is a townlean for me, most notably because of her interactions with

Venmar

. My focus today lies elsewhere.

[Greeting]

Kind of curious how nobody has asked me to claim yet lol

There's definitely scum on my wagon the question is are they both on it.

Don't claim unless someone announces intent to hammer.

[Greeting]

things uttered in the year 2300

"i'm thinking about booking a trip to the island of france this year"

Lmao

[Greeting]

Bizarre nightkill.

VOTE: Not Known 15

E-1

[Greeting]

VC 1.19

Umlaut

(6): Greeting, Black, Venmar, patchwork, Malakittens, Not Known 15

Venmar

(3):

bristep123

,

Umlaut

,

T

3

Not Known 15

(1): Invisibility

Invisibility

(1): geraintm

If we are to assume that the scums spread their votes, then I would suggest going after

bristep123

next.

The kill of Night 1 suggests either inexperience or an unconventional approach, which, in my opinion, fits into the

N K 15

/

bristep123

scumteam.

Oh, and please do not hammer before announcing intent to do so.

[Greeting]

Why is NK your vote? Do you think a scum like bristep parked on me while the Umlaut wagon was all town until NK came in with a scummy hammer?

I am not getting any town vibes from

Not Known 15

and I would be fine with him being eliminated today. He was in my original limpool and still is there.

[Greeting]

also it's a little suprising that more people don't scumread me
like where did limbait patch go
am i just good this game????

I've already played with you and based on that meta you're not acting any differently.

[Greeting]

what about the NK makes you suspect Greeting? Also do you mean that the NK makes you suspect Mala also

echoign venmar's night kill analysis: i think the t3 kill was done to either silence him (his top scumreads were greeting and mala) or to frame his scumreads (greeting and mala). at the moment i think it could be either, but i think the former is more likely. mostly because other players like bri also had scumreads on, say, greeting (correct me if i'm wrong, memory is fuzzy) and they weren't the subject of the nk.
man idk how to explain this
but it's like
t3 only
everyone else who scumread them wasn't (e.g me with my null-scum read on mala that hasn't gotten better, all the other ppl who scumread greeting)
and i think iut's because t3 wasn't really that voted on? like they were towny in my eyes and they were the only one who couldn't be eliminated by a hang in my eyes i jus tdon't think it wouldn't go through

Why would I kill someone who was in my limpool and, on top of that, suspected me the most out of all players?

Hot take, the entire scum team is in this pool of players: {

Umlaut

,

T3

,

Not Known 15

and

bristep123

}.

The rest all give varying degrees of town vibes.

[Greeting]

VC 2.05

Malakittens

(2): Venmar, patchwork

Greeting

(2): bristep123, Invisibility

Venmar

(2): Not Known 15, Malakittens

Not Known 15

(1): Greeting

Not Voting

(2): geraintm, Black

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to put a player on the blocking chop. Day 2 ends in (expired on 2023-05-16 09:40:00).

mod notes: spooky post number

Not really keen on any of the top wagons, so I will be keeping my vote where it is for now.

I'm not exactly sure why the wagon disappeared in the first place. I've been asked why did I put

Not Known 15

on E-1, but maybe the question should be reversed. Why shouldn't

N K 15

be eliminated today?

My townleans of

Black

and

Malakittens

were probably premature. But I still think that

Venmar

,

patchwork

and

Invisibility

are all town.

[Greeting]

UNVOTE:

We're not limming before I analyze this

So, have you analysed it yet?

[Greeting]

what about the NK makes you suspect Greeting? Also do you mean that the NK makes you suspect Mala also

echoign venmar's night kill analysis: i think the t3 kill was done to either silence him (his top scumreads were greeting and mala) or to frame his scumreads (greeting and mala). at the moment i think it could be either, but i think the former is more likely. mostly because other players like bri also had scumreads on, say, greeting (correct me if i'm wrong, memory is fuzzy) and they weren't the subject of the nk.
man idk how to explain this
but it's like
t3 only
everyone else who scumread them wasn't (e.g me with my null-scum read on mala that hasn't gotten better, all the other ppl who scumread greeting)
and i think iut's because t3 wasn't really that voted on? like they were towny in my eyes and they were the only one who couldn't be eliminated by a hang in my eyes i jus tdon't think it wouldn't go through

Why would I kill someone who was in my limpool and, on top of that, suspected me the most out of all players?

Hot take, the entire scum team is in this pool of players: {

Umlaut

,

T3

,

Not Known 15

and

bristep123

}.

The rest all give varying degrees of town vibes.

Hot take, killing t3 would allow you to make this exact argument. That’s a reason to kill him.

VOTE: bristep123

[Greeting]

Can we talk about Mala's vote for Umlaut btw?

Many players just cast

meh

votes on the most popular wagon if they find the choice acceptable. I've done it in the past as well. It doesn't necessarily point towards the player in question being scum.

And I'm saying this while I re-read

Malakittens

' ISO and I still don't believe that this is scum!

Mala

.

[Greeting]

Why would I kill someone who was in my limpool and, on top of that, suspected me the most out of all players?

you ask me that like i know

Rhetorical question.

[Greeting]

Prod dodge, still uphold my scumreads.

[Greeting]

Even then i know better than putting ppl at E-1

that is respectable I am respecting that

Putting anyone at E-1 is not really a big deal unless we have Not_Mafia in the game or it's ELo.

[Greeting]

Here is where I stand with my reads as of right now:

Greeting

patchwork
Venmar

Invisibility
Malakittens

geraintm

Black

Enchant
bristep123

[Greeting]

Yeah, I am townreading a lot of players, but honestly I tried reevaluating my reads and still came to similar conclusions. If the scum team is not

Enchant

/

bristep123

, then I would go after

Black

, who, upon re-reading isn't as towny as I previously thought.

Patchwork

has no reason to come after me if he is scum, because I will flip town and they would know it. Which is why I think they're town.

[Greeting]

I have this thought at the back of my head that I might be totally underestimating someone, and townreading them due to confbias. The problem is I don't know who that could be as of this moment.

[Greeting]

@

patchwork

, why are you scumreading me?

[Greeting]

greeting, the reason i scumread you is because you feel mostly non-commital and you feel like you're just pulling stuff out of your ass to look like you're doing things. i'm echoing venmar's NK analysis, because a kill on t3 definitely points to you. on top of that, i'm getting the same vibes here that i got from your scumgame

That's just the way I play mafia in general though?

I'm sorry if you disagree with my reads. If I am the choice of lim for today, I am upholding them.

VOTE: Enchant

[Greeting]

@

Black

,

Invisibility

, will respond to you later.

[Greeting]

Can you explain your Invisibility read? What makes her less townie than patch and Venmar?

I'm sort of torn on this slot actually.

Invisibility

posts a lot of content with a towny tone, but I can also see a lot of hesitation and indecisiveness. Lots of thinking out loud and posting theories which didn't really contribute to scumhunting in the game and could very well be content fillers. One time it's me and

Enchant

that are the scumteam, now it's me and

patchwork

. Last pages it seemed like she's just jumping on whichever wagon is popular at the moment. The vote shifts, however, are usually justified, and while the justifications are bad, they do seem like they might be coming from a townie.

I have felt pretty consistently about

patchwork

and

Venmar

throughout the whole game so far, and it hasn't really changed.

[Greeting]

Patchwork

has no reason to come after me if he is scum, because I will flip town and they would know it. Which is why I think they're town.

who's "he"

I meant they, was referring to

patchwork

.

[Greeting]

Was this because i called you mafia

No, it was because the predecessor of your slot was suspicious and you have done absolutely nothing to change it.

[Greeting]

Black is scum because:

- I've scumread Black pretty consistently this day because I feel like she's been around but hasn't actually contributed or engaged in actual concrete scumhunting herself, she just seems "present" and asking people questions or hopping wagons without doing much. STINKY

I agree with that, hence why

Black

fell down my readslist so bad. She's kinda like

Invisibility

, with regards to jumping around, except it doesn't seem like any of her votes had any justification at all. And there isn't a lot of consistent scumhunting patterns.

I read her analysis of

Mala

's ISO in 782, but it feels like she put in a lot of effort and nothing really came out of it. It's not uncommon for scums to make high-effort contributions like that just for the sake of being townread. And, quite honestly, I don't agree with the main premise, that

Malakittens

is hard to read at all.

[Greeting]

Can we just elim the

Enchant

slot today? Or can maybe someone convince me why we shouldn't?

[Greeting]

I claim VT.

[Greeting]

Looks like I’ll be a compromise lim. Sadly, they are almost always town.

Hopefully you guys can get

Enchant

tomorrow.

[Greeting]

sigh
i mean that was expected but enchant this really doesn't look good for you

Really? It seemed to me like you wanted this.

[Greeting]

Anyway, yeah I was town. Please kill

Enchant

and

bristep123

, if you read their ISOs you will find that they contributed very little whatsoever.

[Greeting]

i didn't want a hammer now.... i wanted to at least spend more time discussing
greeting, assuming you're town, what's your reads? who do you think we should lim tomorrow
and if you're scum i'll just do the exact opposite of what you say

...did you not read the posts where I outlined my reads or the post where I said that I am upholding them?

[Greeting]

As for

Mala

, proceed with caution with regard to that slot. I know I had put her in as a townread, but I'm more inclined to move her to null... Her tone reads as townie, but she hasn't really done a lot. A possibility of

Enchant

/

Malakittens

team should be explored.

[Greeting]

Feels like the quality of play has plummetted since Day 1 overall. I think

patchwork

is town, just has poor reads. I would trust

Venmar

the most out of all the players left. I wouldn't trust my scumreads nor

Black

at all. I generally uphold the rest of my reads.

[Greeting]

As a last word, kinda sucks that town would pick to eliminate me over an obviously anti-town clown, but it is what is. Good luck.

[Greeting]

Congratulations to the mafia, you guys played well.

Thank you for modding, Skygazer!