Mini 712 - Capital of the World! - (Game over!)

[Sun Tzu]

affirmative

[Sun Tzu]

Oh hey.

I'm in this game.

[Sun Tzu]

vote Porkens

That's way too many smilies.

[Sun Tzu]

I'm leaving my vote on Porkens. This nonsense isn't helping and it's getting old.

[Sun Tzu]

Now what?

[Sun Tzu]

I'm not sure if we're getting anywhere, but this is fun so far.

[Sun Tzu]

Porkens, you should sub into game #104.

[Sun Tzu]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9939

[Sun Tzu]

I'll replace you. PM me your role.

[Sun Tzu]

The odds of him choosing the same person as Alvin by choosing randomly are 1/11, not 1/121.

[Sun Tzu]

Show your work.

This is pretty simple.

There are 11 possibilities. One of them is the same as the other person.

1/11

[Sun Tzu]

Here's an outside reference, too (4 second google search)
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_ ... h_two_dice

Question: What are the odds of rolling doubles with two dice?

[Sun Tzu]

3. The chance that

both

of you roll a 4 is 1/16: 1 out of 16 possible combinations:

1 1

2 1 3 1 4 1
1 2

2 2

3 2 4 2
1 3 2 3

3 3

4 3
1 4 2 4 3 4

4 4

4. Just change the 1d4 to a 1d11 situation (like we have) and there you go; 121 possible 2-roll combinations, only

1 of those where both of you come up with the same result.

Are you saying they don't get the same result when they both roll 1, 2, or 3?

[Sun Tzu]

Another question:

There are 12 players in a game. The first 11 all vote for different people so no one has more than one vote. When the 12th player votes randomly, what are the odds he doesn't vote someone with a vote already?


Last question:

There are 23 people in a room. What are the odds that at least 2 of them have the same birthday?

[Sun Tzu]

If I knew more maths, I would be able to come up with the formula to find the probability of doubles on any X-sided dice

It's 1/x.

Whatever the first roll is, the other one has a 1 in x chance of being the same.

You can also think of it as there being x different ways of rolling doubles out of x² possibilities.

I'm not going to comment on the rest since I think we're on the same page.


As an aside, I wonder if superrandomdude gets more than his fair share of "random" votes in games due to his name.

[Sun Tzu]

Kuribo, you're not answering the questions you are being asked.

[Sun Tzu]

what

do

you think of MafiaPlayer?

He doesn't seem particularly scummy to me. I think the whole math conversation was pretty pointless.

The daykill thing was funny, but I haven't played with him to know if that is more likely as town or scum.

[Sun Tzu]

Are you blind? He asked me what are the odds of two dice coming up sixes, and I said "1/6."


THAT'S AN ANSWER TO THE QUESTION.

Ok, it's a wrong answer. That's the odds of 1 die coming up 6.

[Sun Tzu]

And how does the result of one die coming up 6 affect the odds of the other die coming up 6?

It doesn't. What are you talking about?

[Sun Tzu]

also, way to imply that I wasn't answering a question just because you don't like the answer

Apparently, I was giving you more credit than you deserve.

[Sun Tzu]

And how does the result of one die coming up 6 affect the odds of the other die coming up 6?

It doesn't. What are you talking about?

I'm talking about the probability for a die to come up 6 is 1/6, right?

So the probability of two dice coming up 6 is 1/6 for each die, since they do not influence one another.

Same goes for three, four, or five dice.

Flip a coin ten times, and no matter how many heads in a row you get, each flip has a 50% chance of coming up heads.

Right, each has an independent probability. The probability of them occurring together is the product of their individual probabilities.

[Sun Tzu]

There's no paradox there.

[Sun Tzu]

Of course there is.

Roll six die, individually.
There is a 1/6 chance on each roll that it will come up 6.
However, odds are that all of them won't come up 6.

That's the paradox.

How is that a paradox?

[Sun Tzu]

Maybe you just don't know what a paradox is.

[Sun Tzu]

I refuse.

[Sun Tzu]

We already moved on. Get with the program.

[Sun Tzu]

Good explanation though. Nice chart.

[Sun Tzu]

Also, this whole dance really makes me:
1.) Want a game where we dont get a mess of lurkers for once.
2.) Question why Kuribo takes an argumentative stance on everything thats happened yet hasn't said anything about the people playing the game aside from his join post (where he places minimal suspicion on both Porkens AND Mafiaplayer).
3.) Want delicious ham sandwiches.

I agree with these points, especially #3.

[Sun Tzu]

I haven't posted anything lately because I don't have anything to say. I don't see much happening.

The math stuff was pointless and didn't lead anywhere. Now we're arguing about who's playing mafia.

[Sun Tzu]

I haven't posted anything lately because I don't have anything to say. I don't see much happening.

The math stuff was pointless and didn't lead anywhere. Now we're arguing about who's playing mafia.

Why are you voting for me?

You said you agreed to the case on Mafiaplayer, and you haven't presented one on me, so explain your vote.

It was a joke vote. I just haven't moved it yet.

I'm going to take a nap and then reread the thread and cast a serious vote.

[Sun Tzu]

Ok. I slept longer than I planned. Then I went to work. I just read the whole thread.

I've got nothing.

[Sun Tzu]

vote Mafiaplayer

[Sun Tzu]

I'm obviously town.

[Sun Tzu]

I'm obviously town.

[Sun Tzu]

I promise I'm town.

[Sun Tzu]

How is proving that I'm town asking to be hung?

[Sun Tzu]

how is stating "i'm obviously town" and "i promise i'm town" proving that you're town?

I wouldn't promise I'm town if I wasn't.

[Sun Tzu]

An empty promise is not proving.

If you are to prove, prove now.

I'm not going to postmy role PM. What kind of proof do you want?

[Sun Tzu]

Why are you ignoring my question, Spyrex?

[Sun Tzu]

Well, there's no point in arguing. If I don't get lynched, I'll get night-killed.

I'll

vote TAX

.

Don't assume everyone involved in MP's lynch is town.

Good luck town. Merry Christmas everyone.

[Sun Tzu]

I don't think my wagon is scum-driven. I think you guys just suck at this game.

I'll defend myself when I know what the charges are.

Right now people seem to be saying I need to prove I'm town. That's ridiculous.

[Sun Tzu]

hey sun tzu, quitcher bitchin'

and sun tzu did literally nothing yesterday but engage in inane side conversations, aka textbook active lurking, and then hop on the mafiaplayer wagon late when it was clear mp was going down in flames, aka textbook bussing

So the case against me is that I engaged in inane conversations started by other people?

That's a pretty weak reason to lynch a townie.

[Sun Tzu]

Hey, roflcopter, I haven't seen your proof that you are town.

[Sun Tzu]

Maybe Perardua is scum and doesn't want to be associated with lynching a cleared townie.

[Sun Tzu]

So the case against me is that I engaged in inane conversations started by other people?

That's a pretty weak reason to lynch a townie.

nice strawman and appeal to emotion

That's not a strawman. It's what you said.

It's not an appeal to emotion. Please explain how you can interpert it that way.

Hey, roflcopter, I haven't seen your proof that you are town.

nice deflection

If I'm guilty until proven innocent, so is everyone else. I've never played a mafia game were people were expected to prove their innocence, especially on day 2. No one else can prove their innocence either.

ote="sun tzu"]I'll defend myself when I know what the charges are.

well, apparently that was a lie, because i just highlighted the charges against you, which you blatantly ignored the first time around, and instead of even trying to defend yourself when you had to acknowledge them, you stall and deflect.

I'm not stalling or deflecting.

I admitted to the math talk. It doesn't make me more likely to be scum.

The "bussing" argument is circular. Bussing is scum voting for scum. It's stupid to say I'm scum because I voted for scum. A lot of people did.

In fact, if I were scum, I would have voted him a lot sooner.

need more votes here. looking at you perardua, it should be obvious at this point we're not going to get a real response from him, so your excuse to not be voting looks like a lot of contrived bullshit.

Your case looks like a lot of contrived bullshit.

Instead of adressing my points or making logical arguments, you are just throwing terminology around. You haven't given any rational reason to think I am scum.

I could say, "it should be obvious at this point I'm not going to get a real response from roflcopter", but I'm not an asshole and I don't claim to be able to predict the future.

By the way, what does the town learn when I get lynched and come up town?

[Sun Tzu]

Don't assume everyone involved in MP's lynch is town.

remember when you said this? now you look like a hypocrite.

How do I look like a hypocrite?

[Sun Tzu]

By the way, what does the town learn when I get lynched and come up town?

if that happens, we've learned that you don't know the first thing about playing the game of mafia.

lol

[Sun Tzu]

I could say, "it should be obvious at this point I'm not going to get a real response from roflcopter", but I'm not an asshole and I don't claim to be able to predict the future.

i am an asshole, but i'm an asshole who caught scum with his thumb up his ass

No, I am obvious town. If you think I seem scummy, it's you who has no clue how to play this game.

I've played with you before though and I know how bad you are. You're a mislynch specialist as any role. Your batting average on finding scum is probably worse than rand().

[Sun Tzu]

spyrex, we should use your kill as a second lynch. you should kill the person most likely to be lynched the following day, to either a) bag a scum or b) save us the mislynch so we can move on to finding more scum

Here's an example of a contentless fluff post.

at this point, i think it would be wise to for you to vig: perardua

That would probably be a good choice. Roflcopter would be a good alternative.

[Sun Tzu]

read the wiki

Do you really think there is a list of reliable scum tells that scum obediently follow in order for you to catch them with a checklist?

The way to read someone is to try to understand why they do what they do and why they say what they say.

[Sun Tzu]

If I'm guilty until proven innocent, so is everyone else. I've never played a mafia game were people were expected to prove their innocence, especially on day 2. No one else can prove their innocence either.

what? whaaat? what the fuck do you do on day two then? sit around and play fucking duck duck goose? somebody gets lynched every day.

What are you talking about? What does this have to do with what I said?

[Sun Tzu]

You're not going to respond to any of my points?

[Sun Tzu]

At least tell me how I am a hypocrite.

[Sun Tzu]

First you say I'm not going to defend myself, then when I address your points, you just insult me and refuse to respond. That's not very pro-town.

[Sun Tzu]

I'm removing this thread from watched topics.

Good luck town.

[Sun Tzu]

You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

[Sun Tzu]

At least my death won't be in vain.

All you have to do is go through the list people who voted me and figure out which are scum and which are morons.

[Sun Tzu]

in this thread sun tzu takes his ball and goes home

you are a hypocrite because:

Don't assume everyone involved in MP's lynch is town.

The "bussing" argument is circular. Bussing is scum voting for scum. It's stupid to say I'm scum because I voted for scum. A lot of people did.

What is hypocritical about that? Do you know what "hypocritical" means?

The statements are consistent.

[Sun Tzu]

ps-

and i use "if you're town" in the most vastly loose sense of the word, in the sense that monkeys may also fly out of my butt one day

If you're town, you are the worst townie ever.

Unlike you, however, I am going to give a reason. You are saying you are certain I am scum when you have no reason to think so.

If you're town and you are surprised when my role is revealed, you should think about the reliability of your "tells". I would have made those same posts (about he math) as any role, so it is a null-tell that says nothing about my role. Your certainty that I am scum, is either fake (i.e. you are scum and just preparing for my role reveal, or evidence of poor mafia skills. There is little reason to think I am more likely to be scum than chance, let alone to think you're certain.

That's a pretty good scum tell, by the way. Look at rofl and Kuribo after I'm gone.

Neither has addressed my points and they both claim to be sure I am scum.

If they are so sure, put their asses on the line.

Kuribo, are you confident enough in your read of me that you are willing to be lynched or vig-killed when I come up town, or are you full of shit?

[Sun Tzu]

most clear players: spyrex, porkens

Spyrex is practically confirmed as vig. Soveliss makes no sense as a scum kill. It's possible that he is actually sk, but that seems unlikely and that's not worth worrying about unless he doesn't get killed for a while.

Porkens started the case against MP and got him lynched.

CF Riot seems ok so far. I liked his one post.

scummy: kuribo

His tone seems scummy to me and he is saying a lot of stuff that makes no sense. I haven't played with him before so i don't know for sure. I guess he could just be stupid and obnoxious. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he's scum.

unvote; vote kuribo

TAX seems odd and needs to post more.

I don't like PerArdua's post about my wagon taking off too fast. That seems like the kind of thing scum might say to keep their hands clean from a mislynch. It's extra scummy to vote for me while saying that.

I'm torn on roflcopter. I have played with him before and his scum and town games are similar. In both roles he pushes townies hard for stupid reasons.

[Sun Tzu]

I don't like PerArdua's post about my wagon taking off too fast. That seems like the kind of thing scum might say to keep their hands clean from a mislynch. It's extra scummy to vote for me while saying that.

you know, this is actually a legitimate point, and if you could quit it with your whole martyr complex and the "i'm obviously town so back the fuck off" thing i might actually be able to take you seriously.

I don't have a martyr complex and I'm not telling people to back off. I'm telling people to make actual logical arguments.

I'm obvously town only if you accept that I wouldn't promise that I'm town if I wasn't. You guys don't know me so you don't know that. That's fine. However, even disregarding that, I'm not better than a random lynch. The reasons people have given for thinking I am scum are just plain bad and there's no way around that.

but you should probably accept that you're the lynch today. so if you're town, please continue to make contributions such as what i just quoted, and if you're scum, feel free to just keep bitching at us until we kill you.

I've accepted that I'm getting lynched today. That doesn't mean I'm not going to do what I can to help win the game. I don't have to survive to win.

I'm going to call a spade a spade and a moron a moron. Bad arguments don't help the town. Mislynches don't help the town. Lynching a good scumhunter doesn't help the town. Maybe I can't do anything to prevent my lynch today, but I can still help find scum. Everyone can read my posts again later.

also, if you've got something other than vanilla to claim, i'd say now is the time to do it.

No, I don't have anything to claim.

[Sun Tzu]

I'd bet my right god damned testicle you're scum.

liar

[Sun Tzu]

I'm obvously town only if you accept that I wouldn't promise that I'm town if I wasn't.

how in the blue hell do you play scum then?

As scum I try to get townies lynched and try to keep scum from getting lynched unless I think they need to be bussed. In other words, I try to win. I guess I don't understand your question.

[Sun Tzu]

His tone seems scummy to me and he is saying a lot of stuff that makes no sense. I haven't played with him before so i don't know for sure. I guess he could just be stupid and obnoxious.

this OMGUS vote is the pot calling the kettle black


ps- i may be stupid, but at least i can get some higher learning to fix that. there ain't no cure for retarded, unfortunately for you

Calling my vote OMGUS doesn't make it true. Just keep digging that hole deeper and deeper.

Also, education doesn't cure stupidity.

[Sun Tzu]

After I get lynched, kuribo needs to post a picture showing that he's castrated himself or get lynched as a liar.

[Sun Tzu]

nice strawman

[Sun Tzu]

ugh, i just can't help myself

However, even disregarding that, I'm not better than a random lynch. The reasons people have given for thinking I am scum are just plain bad and there's no way around that.

thats just plain wrong and there's no way around that

No. I am town so anyone who says that I can't possibly be town is wrong. If someone says they think I could be scum or even that I'm likely to be scum, I disagree, but that's debatable.

Anyone who says it's 100% certain that I am scum is lying. That's not debatable. It's a fact.

Lynching a good scumhunter doesn't help the town.

lol. a good scumhunter, huh? aside from one insightful comment about perardua (which you didn't even follow up on) i haven't actually seen you scumhunt.

You are conflating scumhunting with pushing someone. Scum push people too. I like to be fairly confident of my reads before I push hard. Getting townies lynched, like you are trying to do is not pro-town.

thats the biggest issue with you, and why i started voting you in the first place. your vote for kuribo is utterly ridiculous. your reasoning is, and i quote, "You are saying you are certain I am scum when you have no reason to think so." four people seem to have reason to think so, including the two you've labeled the most pro town.

Are all 4 of those people saying they are 100% certain I am scum? Are they all saying they would bet a testicle that I am?

You guys are all wrong, so obviously your reasoning is not valid.

I repeat, my reason for thinking kuribo is scum is because he is lying, not because he thinks I could be scum.

you must be doing something horribly, horribly wrong for that to happen, so voting kuribo for saying he thinks you're scum is just plain

stupid

.

That's not why I'm voting him, moron.

You all must be doing something horribly, horribly wrong if you are so certain a townie is scum. After i die, at least admit it then.

saying you think two people who are voting you for the exact same reasons as kuribo are obvtown and then voting kuribo for voting you is infantile.

Ok, I guess I agree with that, but it's irrelevant since that's not why I'm voting for him.

you are proving conclusively that you are not a good scumhunter.

not if I'm right

You are proving conclusively that you aren't.

I didn't say I'm a good scumhunter because of this game. This game just started. Even if I am wrong about kuribo, my reasoning is valid (he is lying). Note that this is the second time in this game that he has said it was more likely for monkeys to fly out of his butt than for something to be true that has turned out to be true.

Calling my vote OMGUS doesn't make it true

you obviously don't have a clear conception of what an OMGUS vote is. i have never, ever seen a vote that is more clearly OMGUS than your vote right now.

No. I'm not saying he's scum because he thinks I'm scum. A bunch of people seem to think I'm scum. He is saying he would bet his right nut that I am scum. Even if you assume that the "tells" given are valid, and it is more likely that I am scum becuase I got involved in that math discussion, etc., there is no way a villager can logically come to the conclusion that I couldn't possibly be a townie here. That's absurd.

[Sun Tzu]

Calling my vote OMGUS doesn't make it true. Just keep digging that hole deeper and deeper.

I'm not the one with the shovel, genius.

Calling yourself a good scumhunter doesn't make it true, either.

No, but consistently calling scum scum does.

I can link you to games if you want.

[Sun Tzu]

jesus.

ok, i'm done arguing with sun tzu, his ego and complete lack of understanding of how the game of mafia works is just getting ridiculous. i'll be back when he's been lynched.

What do you think I don't understand?

[Sun Tzu]

I changed my mind about not following this game after I die.

I want to know which of you guys arethe scum and which are the retards.

[Sun Tzu]

2. I guess I see the angle Sun Tzu is trying to take, but it doesn't fly for me, at all. This whole LAL case against Kuribo because he said he would bet his nut (which is obviously meant figuratively) might be called a fallacy (loooooool).

No, you obviously don't see what I'm saying. If any of you are actually going to be surprised that I am town, that should tell you something about your ability to play this game. I mean, I guess I can understand someone voting for me because they think that it's about 50/50 that I'm scum. That's reasonable at least. There isn't always an abvious scum player to lynch so you can't expect to get them all right. However, when you think you "know" something that isn't true, you obviously need to reexamine your thinking.

3. Hammertime IMHO.

Good idea. It's not like you guys are going to decide to start making sense or respond to what I've actually said.

[Sun Tzu]

Note that roflcopter still hasn't answered my question about my supposed hypocrisy.

[Sun Tzu]

No, I agree with you that the hypocrisy point is flimsy. And, like I said, I

see

what you are saying about the 'knowing' and the flaw in a town saying that.

Again, though, just like Mafiaplayer, you're not presenting a reasonable defense. 'promise' meta and attacking your accuser for the semantic difference between "strongly suspect" and "know,"

no matter how true you believe them to be

, read as desperate scum, to me.

You just seem to be purposefully inflammatory.

While I'm not on board with calling kuribo or SpyreX obvtown, I'll let that play out as it will, for now they're certainly

protown

.

I also have kind of a Newbie question; Where I come from, Serial Killers

must

kill every night. Is the same true, generally, here?

I don't know what you expect for a "reasonable defense". The math discussion is a null-tell. I would make those same posts as any role.

I can see the argument about "active lurking" since many of my posts were basically fluff, but that argument is flawed too. As scum, I would be pushing some case against someone and trying to look helpful. As town, I'm not worried as much about how I look and I'm more concerned with finding scum. I didn't have any strong reads so I didn't push. That's how I play. Sometimes it takes a couple days to get a feel for people, especially when you're playing with people you've never played with before. You guys also have to admit this game started off pretty weird.

I'm not going to act like I've found scum while I'm still looking.

That's why roflcopter and especially kuribo seem shady to me. They seem to be going for the easy lynch, which is scummy, rather than actually thinking. They're also ignoring my points and strawmanning my arguments.

It's not just a semantic difference between "know" and "strongly suspect". There is no reason for a townie to even be reasonably certain that I am scum. Kuribo used the monkeys flying out of his butt thing about your case against MP too.

I wouldn't say Spyrex is obvtown. I think he's more likely town than scum and more likely sk than mafia, but that's irrelevant. My point is that if he is town he'll get killed soon anyway so that will sort itself out.

[Sun Tzu]

You just seem to be purposefully inflammatory.

Why would I be purposefully inflammatory if I was scum?

I fully expect to get lynched and some people are going to look like idiots. Everything I've said is true. You can look at it tomorrow.

I'm pretty sure some of the people voting for me are town, but at least one or two have to be scum.

After I'm dead, the town players can analyze what happened.

My other hope is that the town players who lynch me learn something from this and improve their game.

[Sun Tzu]

Someday, I'll have to read one of your other games and see how they play Mafia on your planet.

They respond to people's points rather than just making insults.

[Sun Tzu]

Sun Tzu, let me tell you why your "defenses" hold no weight

You say:

1) "If I were scum, I wouldn't say I was town." That's flat-out wrong, or else you're the worst scum partner ever. FOR OBVIOUS REASONS.

I never said that.

2) "If I were scum, why would I act this way?" So you can then say, "Hey, I wouldn't act this way as scum." The fact that YOU'RE the one pointing it out makes it all the more useless as a defense. The fact that you're aware enough of your behavior to try and use it as a town-tell makes pointing it out a scumtell.

I agree with that. You seem to be misunderstanding what I said. My point isn't to say those things mean I am town, but to deny that they make me scum. There's a difference.

"A does not mean B" does not imply "A means not B". It's simple logic.

3) "You're scum, you're trying to get a townie lynched."

I'm not making that argument either. Please use the quote feature and quote what I actually said instead of making shit up and acting like I said it. That's a scum tactic.

Uh, no. I don't know your alignment for certain, but I do know that you're the scummiest person in town right now. So, your statement is partially right--- I'm trying to get you lynched. But I doubt you're a townie.

You're backtracking now.

Let me reiterate, lest there be confusion--- you are the most likely person in this town right now to be scum. I base this conclusion on your behavior, as well as your completely insane reaction to a handful of votes. There was never any intention of quicklynching you, but your reaction grows more erratic over time. Don't get me wrong, I HATE the "you're overreacting" argument, but there's a fine line between defending oneself and overreaction, and I believe you've crossed it. You're panicking now.

How am I being insane, overreacting or panicking? I'm making rational, logical arguments and you are ignoring them and strawmanning them.

Your behavior has been completely anti-town, your defenses have consisted solely of insults, bad logic, and minimizing the case against you, and you've claimed to be scum hunting when you're really not.

Do me a favor and point out where my logic is bad. You're lying again when you say I'm not scumhunting. I'm doing my best.

Then, you toss a vote on me just because I have the audacity to vote for someone? Please. I've seen people hanged for far less. Swing soon, scum.

No. I gave my reasons for voting you. Everyone can read them and see that you're making strawmen again. Why do you refuse to respond to anything I've actually said?

[Sun Tzu]

oh, I forgot to mention

4) "Don't lynch me, you're all gonna look stupid!" Blatant appeal to emotion.

I didn't say that either.

I'm actually saying, "lynch me, then look at what I've said tomorrow".

What I want to happen is for me to get lynched and then for you to go next after everyone's head asplodes when they learn that I'm town even though they think a townie would never be unsure on day 1 or that a townie would argue about math when people are saying stupid things.

Prepare for your worldview to be shattered.

Sometimes the easiest target really IS scum. (ie, MafiaPlayer yesterday)

Yeah, and sometimes the person pushing hard to lynch a townie using illogical arguments and strawmen really IS scum.

If the town is smart, you are next. I'm prepared to die. Are you?

[Sun Tzu]

Do you even know what a strawman is?

Yes. It's when you argue against a parody of an argument instead of the argument your opponent is making.

It's what you're doing.

[Sun Tzu]

I don't think you know what a strawman is, I think you just picked that word up from roflcopter the other day.
I didn't say that either.

lol

I post on philosophy forums.

I think you just learned the word "dog" the other day.

Stop trolling.

[Sun Tzu]

Now, read yourown post and tell me the difference between what you said I said and what I actually said.

It's not hard. You can do it.

[Sun Tzu]

Do you even know what a strawman is?

Yes. It's when you argue against a parody of an argument instead of the argument your opponent is making.

It's what you're doing.

No, and the fact that you're calling it that means you're either a very poor mafia player, or you just like using words that other people use in order to manipulate the language used against you.

No, you're consistently paraphrasing what I say and twisting it to look bad instead of adressing what I've actually said.

[Sun Tzu]

Kuribo, tell me what I've said that you think is illogical and why.

Don't waste my time by explaining why something I didn't say is illogical.

[Sun Tzu]

You're inferring things I didn't say or mean.

[Sun Tzu]

CF Riot, what makes me bad town?

[Sun Tzu]

How does it make sense to lynch me because you don't know if I am scum or town?

How many players can you not say that about?

How have PerArdua, TAX and Westbrook contributed or scumhunted more than I have?

Why am I the only consideration for lynch? No information is gained if there are no competing bandwagons. There will be nothing to analyze, just a dead townie that everyone voted for.

Shouldn't there be discussion about other players?

Even if I'm going to get lynched, shouldn't we discuss why?

You guys are hypocrites.

[Sun Tzu]

the day I see a "solid" case by any reasonable stretch of the imagination on Page 2 by a pro-town player, is the day monkeys fly out of my ass and knit me a fine scarf.

Yes, but Porkens doesn't get a free pass just because he says "Oh, that? Yeah, I was testing him, hurr."

Why is kuribo not getting any heat for his soft defense of MP?

He's addressing the joke case instead of the real case, even though the difference had already been pointed out by this point.

[Sun Tzu]

Why am I being accused of "active lurking" for the math discussion that I didn't start and other people were also involved in?

Why do people seem to consider said "active lurking" worse than the actual lurking of other players?

[Sun Tzu]

I may be missing something, but what has all the maths got to do with anything? The odds of something happening may be low, but that doesn't mean it can't happen, i'm just not paying attention to it, unless someone gives me a 1 or a 0.
For now i will just

Unvote

to get rid of my random vote, i don't think PerArdua is actually scum right now.
Also, I don't think MafiaPlayer is scum, he did get very defensive over his random vote, but i think that's him just reacting badly to the pressure Porkens put on him, but i'll keep an eye on him for now.

QFdefending scum

[Sun Tzu]

Sun Tzu is really starting to gather my suspicion.

He first mentioned how Porkens case on mafiaplayer was nonsense, however if you go back and look at his posts. Most of them due with the math. Even after it was clear that the math was not the important part, but that mafiaplayer's reaction to it was.

His posts mostly distract the current discussion and lead us on tangents. Therefore:

Vote: Sun Tzu

QFchainsaw

[Sun Tzu]

oops, he's dead

It's still a ridiculous case since I didn't lead any tangents and only corrected what people had said that was wrong.

[Sun Tzu]

My apologies, the time it takes to plan a brutal overthrow takes time. However, it has been completed.

All hail SpyreX, Emperor of Rome.

I have not forgotten you plebs - your total inactivity was paramount to my ability to overthrow those who would rather stare into the skies hoping for a command from God to lead us to victory.

Instead, I claim we must follow the rules of science. As such, I now have given Porkens the role of Commander of the Holy Armies, Lord of Mathematics. He shall lead us to the final goal - domination of all those who would dare harm the empire.

As such, the Senate has been found lacking. There is no room for discussion, only action. It has been decided by Royal and Divine decree that mafiaplayer is to be hung in three days time.

Be guaranteed that of those who would dare disobey this edict that one WILL DIE by my hand once the sun sets. This is not a joke, this is not a threat. This is truth. Fear the tools of justice if you would name yourself an enemy of my state.

Join me, and be protected. All prior crimes shall be forgiven. You shall be given sword and shield and the fire of righteousness as we clear the rabble from our ranks.

Cheer for your new emperor, or dig your own grave.

I still don't understand why a town vig would role-claim on day 1. I don't understand why an sk or mafia would either though so this is just weird.

[Sun Tzu]

Unvote Vote: SpyreX

I'm growing tired of your games. This is going no where and you certainly are not helping that.

If I read SpyreX's silly posts right, he's claiming a killing role, and says anyone who doesn't vote for MafiaPlayer is in danger of getting shot. I think that has a mid-to fair chance of getting the game going. Don't you?

Right a killing role, thats why I voted for him. If he was a townie with some kind of killing role and wanted mafiaplayer killed so badly, then why not just do it himself instead playing his stupid game. He is distracting us and need to be taken care of.

and now he's dead

[Sun Tzu]

Been a while since a vote count

Unofficial vote count
Mafiaplayer (6) - Porkens, SpyreX, kuribo, PerArdua, TAX, Sun Tzu
SpyreX (2) - Soveliss, Mafiaplayer
super random dude (1) - alvinz95

Not voting - super random dude, EdwardElric, Westbrook_Owns_U

7 to lynch, so Mafiaplayer is L-1

I would vote for mafiaplayer, but won't right now because it will hammer him, so i will wait until he posts again, possibly a claim as Soveliss said.

This is what I would consider active lurking, or trying to look helpful without contributing anything or commenting on anything.

[Sun Tzu]

I think the fact we are true Patriots of the Empire (as I must be as Emperor) is due to our ousting of the villain - assuming that the voices he heard were lies and he is not, in fact, a death miller (which I highly doubt).

However, the night still intrigues me. There are three courses of action I could see having happened.

1.) Both I and the villains targeted the same target.
2.) The scourge of the Empire, weakened by our prowess, cowered in fear and sent no action in.
3.) Their target was interfered with in some manner.

Now, with the Divine Knowledge I possess as Emperor I know that I am, in fact, our Emperor and not a scoundrel (which would be the secret 4th.) I bussed a fellow villain and am now trying to oust power roles through deduction).

2 is highly improbable.
1 doesn't make sense - Slov was going to be a source of discussion for sitting on me / playing poorly day 1. Why murder someone who would be easily hung?
Which leaves us with 3. Now, exploring this fully is somewhat a fearful endeavor as IF it were cases 1 or 2 (or the secret 4th) we would only be sending our brightest sons and daughters to the slaughter. However, if 3 is what happened then we can further reduce the field of potential villains and perhaps summarily end this rebellion in record time.

Again, there are a few theories I have already in my head about this:
1.) The villainous target was protected by one of those who follow Hippocrates.
2.) The villainous target was protected by his or her's own mettle with the sword.

So, again, we run into issues - if #1 is what occured and I was the villianous target then we will only oust the doctor for minimal gain. If #2 is what occured we have no simple method to tell if it is true or not without, in fact, slaying the one who protected themselves. However... if it is #1 AND the target protected was in fact not I, Porkens or even Kuribo (to a lesser degree, but still) then I think we will crush this rebellion by sheer numbers.

In the meantime, I shall raise my sword high and charge forth.

Vote: Sun Tzu

I agree with the assessment brought forth enough that I would endorse this at this juncture.

Also, to help disprove some other theories, tonight I will not shed blood.

The only person who died was the person who suspected you.

Now you're saying you're not going to kill tonight, so again there will be no evidence that there even is a vigilante.

Something smells fishy.

unvote; vote SpyreX

[Sun Tzu]

Sun Tzu's most recent posts are nothing more than desperate pleas not to lynch.

"Wait! Ignore my behavior! What about kuribo?! Lynch him! Or that other guy! They're all scum but me, I tell you!"*


* not his actual words, but my interpretation of his inconsistent activity, but the fact that it's not an actual quote would be clear to anyone who isn't a complete retard

I don't want you to ignpre my behavior.

I'm still begging for someone to explain how I've done anything anti-town or why they think I am scum.

[Sun Tzu]

Actually, on reread, kuribo looks town to me. I think he honestly doesn't understand what I'm saying.

[Sun Tzu]

the day I see a "solid" case by any reasonable stretch of the imagination on Page 2 by a pro-town player, is the day monkeys fly out of my ass and knit me a fine scarf.

Yes, but Porkens doesn't get a free pass just because he says "Oh, that? Yeah, I was testing him, hurr."

Why is kuribo not getting any heat for his soft defense of MP?

He's addressing the joke case instead of the real case, even though the difference had already been pointed out by this point.

Because I wasn't defending him, scum.

I said that cases aren't solid on page 2--- which is true.

I didn't say he wasn't scum. In fact, I later said he WAS playing to his scum meta.

The fact that you're trying to make "There's no such thing as a solid case on Page 2" look like a defense of MP just points more to you being scum.

Stop calling me scum.

I'm town and you have no reason to think otherwise.

[Sun Tzu]

Saying I'm acting scummy doesn't answer my question.

What did I do that's scummy?

[Sun Tzu]

Kuribo, why did you ignore all my other posts to say you think I'm scum? We all know that. Post 386 is in the same vein.

How about contributing to the game a little?

How about answering some of my questions.

[Sun Tzu]

Sun Tzu's most recent posts are nothing more than desperate pleas not to lynch.

"Wait! Ignore my behavior! What about kuribo?! Lynch him! Or that other guy! They're all scum but me, I tell you!"*


* not his actual words, but my interpretation of his inconsistent activity, but the fact that it's not an actual quote would be clear to anyone who isn't a complete retard

You still haven't addressed the misquotes that matter.

Why do you ignore everything I say?

[Sun Tzu]

I'm not trying to make a case against anyone. I'm just pointing out things that seem strange or scummy and trying to get some discussion going. What good is it going to do if everyone votes for me and no one talks about anyone else all day? Tomorrow, you just go, "oops" and have nothing to work with or analyze. I've said several times I expect to get lynched. I'm trying to do as much as I can to help the town win while I can. I don't claim to have a good lynch candidate. It's disingenuous at best to say you do, especially when you admit the case against me is weak. You guys should stop calling me anti-town when I'm the only one trying to figure out what's going on.

[Sun Tzu]

Even if I was scum, it's not protown to act like there's nothing to discuss.

As for the idea that I'm desperately trying to avoid getting lynched, that's not true. I don't want to spend weeks defending myself. Let's lynch me (or nk me), but let's try to find some scum in the meantime. If this is my last day to analyze, let me make the most of it. Let's just all assume my lynch is a foregone conclusion and talk about other players. Consider it my dying wish.

[Sun Tzu]

Maybe you can't read. I'm the lynch today.

Let's talk about what happens next. Pretend I'm already dead and revealed as town. Let's catch some scum.

[Sun Tzu]

Fwiw, one-shot vig makes sense to me. I buy it.

unvote

[Sun Tzu]

I'm not going to vote for myself on general principle, but I don't want to hear any nonsense about lynching someone else today. Let's talk about who we should lynch tomorrow.

[Sun Tzu]

Let's talk about super random dude.

I may be missing something, but what has all the maths got to do with anything? The odds of something happening may be low, but that doesn't mean it can't happen, i'm just not paying attention to it, unless someone gives me a 1 or a 0.
For now i will just

Unvote

to get rid of my random vote, i don't think PerArdua is actually scum right now.
Also, I don't think MafiaPlayer is scum, he did get very defensive over his random vote, but i think that's him just reacting badly to the pressure Porkens put on him, but i'll keep an eye on him for now.

QFdefending scum

Been a while since a vote count

Unofficial vote count
Mafiaplayer (6) - Porkens, SpyreX, kuribo, PerArdua, TAX, Sun Tzu
SpyreX (2) - Soveliss, Mafiaplayer
super random dude (1) - alvinz95

Not voting - super random dude, EdwardElric, Westbrook_Owns_U

7 to lynch, so Mafiaplayer is L-1

I would vote for mafiaplayer, but won't right now because it will hammer him, so i will wait until he posts again, possibly a claim as Soveliss said.

This is what I would consider active lurking, or trying to look helpful without contributing anything or commenting on anything.

[Sun Tzu]

Kuribo, stop talking about dead people.

What do you think about anything else?

What are you going to talk about on day 3?

If you want to talk about how far your misinterpretations are from anything I said, send me a PM after the game. It's irrelevant to the game now. I believe you that you don't get it. Get over it.

[Sun Tzu]

Let me reiterate: I never attempted to pass them off as quotes by you, nor did I ever claim such, and your attempt to dismiss them as such IS ALSO SCUMMY.

I never said you did.

Your flip-flopping on the subject of whether I'm town or not FOR NO APPARENT REASON--- that's ALSO SCUMMY.

No. Since I don't know your role, I have to think about it. You're not making any sense but I don't think you're doing it on purpose. I think you're just thoroughly confused and have poor reading comprehension. For example, you say I said you were claiming those quotes were my words. That's not what I said. I said they weren't what I was saying. You said they were a paraphrase. I said they were misinterpretation. Of course, each of those misinterpretations is another example.

Your attempt to push the whole thing about my comment regarding a "solid case on Page 2" is ALSO SCUMMY.

I'm not pushing it. I think that's consistent with you honestly misunderstanding everything. It started with the math. I don't think it's a scum ploy. I think it's legitimate confusion.

I'd continue, but I'm going to bed.

Get some rest and when you get back, drop it. I don't care what you thought I said.

[Sun Tzu]

I can't believe that you feel indignant.

Fwiw, I don't feel indignant.

It's annoying when people misrepresent what I say and ignore my arguments, but I don't take it personally. Don't take it personally that that makes me consider you a poor player.

I respect rational arguments and I hate bullshit.

[Sun Tzu]

In that other game, I got lynched for making a joke.

Notice people were making illogical arguments there too. Even if I had made the mistake they said I made, that's a null-tell at best.

Also notice that I didn't promise I was town in that game.

[Sun Tzu]

lol @ "playstyle"

You don't know shit about my "playstyle".

[Sun Tzu]

Also notice that I didn't promise I was town in that game.

Why do you think this is worth town-points?

Why do you think that I think this is worth town-points?

You don't know shit about my "playstyle".

I'm getting frustrated with you. Why do you say things like this? It's really,

really

unpleasant.

Why do you say things like my playstyle is bad? That's unpleasant. What do you think my playstyle is?

I already know you're pissed at me. I'm getting lynched for being a meanie. You guys are pissed that I called you on your bullshit and I'm not afraid to call you stupid for it.

[Sun Tzu]

It's annoying when people misrepresent what I say and ignore my arguments, but I don't take it personally. Don't take it personally that that makes me consider you a poor player.

Either you're high, or a really shitty mafia player.

We can call each other bad players forever. It's not productive. Are you ready to set the insults aside and make a logical argument?

Interpreting what people say is the crux of this game, since no one is going to make a post that says "Oh, hay, I'm scum."

Right, but saying someone said something they didn't say isn't a good way to make a case.

For example:

Oh, hay, I'm scum.

Interpretation is one thing. Gross misrepresentation is another.

sun, you have ignored every rational argument

No, it's not that he's ignored it, it's that he thinks he can dismiss every rational argument with a sweep of his hand and then say that it's illogical. Even when it's not.

No I don't.

He also thinks that attacking your attacker is the best way of scumhunting / getting heat off yourself.

No I don't. You're not a good mind reader. Do you really think this is a good form of argument? You are saying I think think things I don't think. That's not even fair.

He also thinks that after he dismisses the argument against him, it no longer bears merit, even if he's done nothing to dispute it.

This is more of the same. This is not true. If you think I have ignored a logical argument, please let me know what it was. You've gone from misrepresenting my words to misrepresenting my thoughts. Now you not only think I said things I didn't say, but you're trying to tell me what I think. Can we get back to the logical arguments, please?

Please let me know what logical argument you feel I have ignored. I didn't mean to.

[Sun Tzu]

This bi-polar acceptance of death / flinging mud at all who would dare question this play is bothersome.

Further, it makes me feel as though he, indeed, is not a true Son of the Empire.

It reeks of someone playing every angle to keep their head from the noose.

it also makes me want to reach through my monitor and strangle him dead

Yet you don't want to respond to anything I say. You're not even trying to discuss anything.

[Sun Tzu]

This bi-polar acceptance of death / flinging mud at all who would dare question this play is bothersome.

Further, it makes me feel as though he, indeed, is not a true Son of the Empire.

It reeks of someone playing every angle to keep their head from the noose.

There's nothing bi-polar about accepting my death and wanting to discuss the game.

I'm not flinging mud at anyone who would question my play. I would love for someone to actually question my play. Simply saying my play is scummy without giving reasons doesn't cut it.

I told you not to mention the idea of not lynching me. That's not an option. I am the lynch today. Don't accuse me of trying to escape the lynch.

[Sun Tzu]

Why do you think that I think this is worth town-points?

Is that a serious question?

Hang this man; this day is cancer.

Yes, it was a serious question. Why do you refuse to answer my questions?

[Sun Tzu]

We'll be lynching me but let's get some discussion in first. I don't see what your hurry is. That's not pro-town.

[Sun Tzu]

Do any of you have any integrity?

[Sun Tzu]

Yes, it was a serious question. Why do you refuse to answer my questions?

hypocrite.

How am I a hypocrite? If you think I'm refusing to answer something, let me know what you want me to answer. If you mean something else, let me know. I don't think I'm being hypocritical. I'm trying to discuss the game in good faith. Your stubborn refusal to cooperate is not pro-town.

I don't see what your hurry is. That's not pro-town.

Do any of you have any integrity?

I just can't take the multi-posting, insults, and illogical non-arguments. You kick up so much dust with your posts, I'm not even enjoying the game anymore. Once you are dead, and can't post anymore, real discussion can happen.

I'm trying to have a real discussion. I don't see why we can't have a real discussion now.

You evade every question I ask. You say I'm being illogical but won't explain how. I'll stop with the insults. I would appreciate it if you would too, but that's not even necessary. Insult me as much as you want as long as you include real content as well.

[Sun Tzu]

Porkens, I don't think that's worth town points. I thought I made that obvious when I asked why you thought I thought it was.

Kuribo, I will respond to your post in detail and make a list.

Spyrex, thanks for being willing to have a discussion. I will post my questions later. (I'm on my phone now).

[Sun Tzu]

Kuribo, this is the main thing you haven't addressed:

Kuribo, tell me what I've said that you think is illogical and why.

Don't waste my time by explaining why something I didn't say is illogical.

Everything else you have evaded has been related to that. Specifically, you ignore the fact that I never made these arguments:

1) "If I were scum, I wouldn't say I was town." That's flat-out wrong, or else you're the worst scum partner ever. FOR OBVIOUS REASONS.

I didn't say that. That would be absurd.

2) "If I were scum, why would I act this way?" So you can then say, "Hey, I wouldn't act this way as scum." The fact that YOU'RE the one pointing it out makes it all the more useless as a defense. The fact that you're aware enough of your behavior to try and use it as a town-tell makes pointing it out a scumtell.

I did I ask why I would do that as scum. The point is not that that means that action is a town tell. It means it's a null-tell, or player specific. It's best to ignore any "tells" that are heavily subject to WIFOM.

3) "You're scum, you're trying to get a townie lynched."

I haven't made that argument. I have said that I thought you were scum (I don't think you are now, but I'm not betting any testicles), but I didn't say it was because you thought I was scum.


Everything that has been given as an example of me being illogical has been based on misrepresenting or misunderstanding what I said.

[Sun Tzu]

Here's what I perceive to be the biggest difference between my approach to the game and yours.

You guys look at specific actions and consider them universally town or scummy.

I don't think it's that simple. I try to look at the thought process behind an action to determine if it's more likely to be town or scummy.

It's easy for scum to act like town if they know what people consider to be scum tells and town tells. It's also easy for scum to push villagers safely by pushing them for violating "the rules" and exhibiting supposed scum tells.

Maybe your approach is more practical than mine here since most games are played with a lot of strangers. I'm used to playing with the same people a lot. It's a lot different when you are familiar with how people play and can compare them from game to game.

Some examples of "tells" that vary from player to player and may be scum-tells, town-tells or null-tells: aggressiveness, defesiveness, OMGUS, off-topic posting, helpfulness, voting for scum (i.e. tendency to bus), etc.

Now, when you say "X is a scum tell" and I say, "well, actually, I don't do that as scum, but I do it as town", I'm not saying you should consider it a town-tell just because I said that. What I am saying is you are wrong that X makes me more likely to be scum, or at least you have no idea what it means, if anything. If the wiki said typing in all caps was a scum tell, most people would avoid typing in all caps. The only people who would do it would generally be newbies and they would usually be town.

Another problem I'm seeing is the problem of there being no competing bandwagon. This shouldn't happen unless a confirmed cop has peeked mafia. If everyone votes for the same person, no information is gained from bandwagon analysis later on.

I'm sorry for coming off as arrogant and confrontational. It's how I react to poor arguments and a condescending tone. You guys haven't exactly been friendly or humble either.

Now, at this point I don't think it's worth trying to avoid my lynch, since if I don't get lynched today, I'll be getting heat for the rest of the game and it would be a distraction. I think my lynch is protown at this point. Basically, we have to waste a mislynch, lose a skilled player and gain no useful information from the bandwagons or from my role. This sucks but I don't see an alternative.

It's all good if it opens just one player's eyes.

We can't save me. We can't even get another bandwagon. That doesn't mean we can't have a productive discussion and do some scumhunting.

[Sun Tzu]

If I had to choose someone to lynch or vig, I would be choosing from PerArdua, TAX and Westbrook. I don't have a strong read on any of them, but they haven't been contributing so it's impossible to get a read on them.

Currently I consider Spyrex basically cleared. Porkens looks good too.

I guess I'm neutral on roflcopter and slight town on kuribo and you.

[Sun Tzu]

Kuribo, this is the main thing you haven't addressed:

Kuribo, tell me what I've said that you think is illogical and why.

Don't waste my time by explaining why something I didn't say is illogical.

Everything else you have evaded has been related to that. Specifically, you ignore the fact that I never made these arguments:

1) "If I were scum, I wouldn't say I was town." That's flat-out wrong, or else you're the worst scum partner ever. FOR OBVIOUS REASONS.

I didn't say that. That would be absurd.

2) "If I were scum, why would I act this way?" So you can then say, "Hey, I wouldn't act this way as scum." The fact that YOU'RE the one pointing it out makes it all the more useless as a defense. The fact that you're aware enough of your behavior to try and use it as a town-tell makes pointing it out a scumtell.

I did I ask why I would do that as scum. The point is not that that means that action is a town tell. It means it's a null-tell, or player specific. It's best to ignore any "tells" that are heavily subject to WIFOM.

3) "You're scum, you're trying to get a townie lynched."

I haven't made that argument. I have said that I thought you were scum (I don't think you are now, but I'm not betting any testicles), but I didn't say it was because you thought I was scum.


Everything that has been given as an example of me being illogical has been based on misrepresenting or misunderstanding what I said.

I HAVE ADDRESSED THOSE THINGS THAT YOU'VE SAID THAT ARE ILLOGICAL.

YOU'VE QUOTED THEM.


IN THIS

VERY.

POST!

I have quoted you misquoting me. My question is about my statements, not your bizarro-retarded parodies of them.

"I wouldn't promise I was town if I weren't."

THAT IS ILLOGICAL BECAUSE IT HELPS US IN NO WAY WHATSOEVER.

Actually, it proves I'm town unless you assume I would lie about that, which is a faulty assumption.

This is the first time you've addressed it, so even if you disagree, which I can understand, you still can't honestly claim to have addressed it before.

YOUR ARGUMENT THAT I'M NOT ALLOWED TO INFER YOUR MEANING FROM YOUR POSTS, THAT'S ILLOGICAL.

I'm not making that argument either. Damn, you're retarded. I bet they give you tons of shit on SA.

You're allowed to infer meaning from my posts, but it's not useful if it's not what I meant or said.

[Sun Tzu]

I'm sorry for coming off as arrogant and confrontational. It's how I react to poor arguments and a condescending tone. You guys haven't exactly been friendly or humble either.

It's all good if it opens just one player's eyes.

We can't save me. We can't even get another bandwagon. That doesn't mean we can't have a productive discussion and do some scumhunting.

You apologize for being arrogant, then in the same post call the argument against you condescending and comment that you want to "open our eyes." Guess what, (insult regarding your butt), that's condescending.

Oh, and you know what else is scummy? Your sudden flip-flop about my alignment and SpyreX's.

I didn't call an argument condescending. That doesn't even make sense. At this point you're just making noise and posting for the sake of posting..

[Sun Tzu]

You DID call it condescending when you called the tone condescending.

And I'm not making noise for the sake of posting (that's you), I've caught me a scum and now I'm waiting for you to get strung up.

YOU FLAMING ASSMASTER.

Go back to SA for your trolling. Take it to FYAD or whatever.

[Sun Tzu]

Happy birthday, Porkens.

[Sun Tzu]

Yeah, I think this day has gone on long enough.

I don't think we need to argue about any metagame stuff.

Go ahead and lynch me now unless anyone has any more questions or something.

[Sun Tzu]

Is anyone going to be mad if I hammer?

[Sun Tzu]

Ok. Someone else can get their hands dirty. :p

[Sun Tzu]

Just got back from vaction, let me read the thread over and get back to the game at hand. One thing that I want Sun to answer is why did you avoid post 452 by porkens.

I didn't avoid it.

"???" has no answer.

I'm happy to answer any question Porkens (or anyone else) wants to ask.

[Sun Tzu]

I didn't post the first post you quoted, so I don't need to explain any inconsistency between your quotes.

If you're town, please formulate your question into a coherent sentence.

[Sun Tzu]

It would be reasonable to believe me. It is not unreasonable to assume I could be lying. You don't know enough about me to know I can't be. That's why I said let's not argue about meta, especially about a dead player's meta.

I have a question for you though. How could anything I could have said be "worth town points"? I'm asking about the general principle, but feel free to use examples. Anyone else is welcome to answer too.

[Sun Tzu]

Haven't you guys figured out yet that everytime Sun is confronted with his behavior, he simply decries it as illogical and attempts to move on?

What are you talking about?

[Sun Tzu]

I've had enough of his ducking and weaving shadow games crap.

What are you talking about?

If you have nothing to contribute, why don't you take a seat while the adults have a discussion.

[Sun Tzu]

I have to agree with kuribo, an example is the post I mentioned earlier by Porkens. Its not that hard to figure out what he was pointing out. He pointing out the contridiction in the two post, and the question marks were refearing to why do you think that it was worth town points.

I already responded to this.

[Sun Tzu]

^ when.

475

[Sun Tzu]

yes but you did say

Why do you think that I think this is worth town-points?

so lets get one things clear do you think its worth town points.

I already answered this too. No, I do not think saying I am town is worth town points.

[Sun Tzu]

Kuribo, what makes you look bad is not the insults but the fact that you aren't posting anything else. You have tons of posts but have said basically nothing for most of the game. From what I've seen of your other games, I know you're capable of contributing. If you're still butthurt about me calling you stupid, how about trying to be smart instead of being such a baby?

[Sun Tzu]

What do you think is a contradiction?

Also, please answer my question since it relates to this issue. What kind of thing is worth town points?

Another question, leading us to the same place: if someone makes a post that they would never make as scum, is it reasonable to assume they are town? If someone makes a post that they would never make as town, is it reasonable to assume they are scum?

[Sun Tzu]

Kuribo, what makes you look bad is not the insults but the fact that you aren't posting anything else.

It's hard to post anything else when you're basically like this game's version of Chad "Ocho Cinco" Johnson doing whatever he can to make the game focus on you, all the while answering questions with more questions.

What are you, the freakin' Riddler?

I'm not trying to make the game about me. Feel free to bring up something else. Feel free to post reads on other players. I'm the lynch today. We all get that you're happy about that. If I've missed any questions you asked, it was an oversight. Please ask them again. I'm not trying to evade anything.

[Sun Tzu]

Another question

Riddle me this, Batman!

Another contentless post from Kuribo.

You're the one evading. Stop cluttering the thread if you're not going to contribute.

[Sun Tzu]

so what is it when I accuse you of something and you respond by doing exactly what you were accused of?

You're accusing me of evading questions. I'm clearly not doing that.

You're accusing me of answering questions with questions. I'm only doing that to unclear questions.

If I've missed something or you want clarification on something, that's what I'm here for. Ask away.

[Sun Tzu]

TAX, I never said that saying I'm town is worth town points.

I said that when I posted "I promise I'm town", I proved that I'm town since I wouldn't make that post as scum ever. I've already acknowledged that you would have to know me to know that.

I don't see any contradiction or mystery here.

Can we discuss something else yet?

Like I said, there's no point in arguing about the meta of dead players.

[Sun Tzu]

TAX, that's a good answer. Tells are player specific. That's why you have to try to figure out players' thought processes. For example, most of the generic tells (OMGUS, bandwagonning, defensiveness, etc.) are essentially worthless. The people carefully avoiding those "tells" are scum. Believe me, it's not hard to look protown when you know what your opponents are looking for. Town players don't care as much about how things look. Scum also tend to avoid drawing attention to themselves or piss too many people off. Any advanced player would look at my play and say I'm obvious town for those reasons. Of course, advanced scum can use that to their advantage but the meta for that doesn't seem to exist on this site, and certainly not with unknown players.

That said, the fact that I pointed these things out makes them worthless for reading me this game since I'm aware of them, so just keep these tips in mind for later and for other games.

Town are trying to figure things out and find scum. Scum are just trying to get someone lynched. Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between scum who use bad reasoning because they are faking (i.e. not really reasoning) and people who are just stupid. That's why I still think Kuribo might be town. I'll let you guys figure that out.

I'm tired of waiting for the lurkers and replacements and I don't think we're getting anywhere so I'll end this here.

vote Sun Tzu