Mini Normal 2298 - Game Over!

[Andante]

Maybe we should actually lim today I don't feel like having town-andante in a situation where one misvote ends the game is like ideal (no offense)

lmao hey!! maybe scum will kill me tonight

[Andante]

its something incredibly insane like brian/norwee/?????

that's why MT flipped, she is good at reading these guys

It's possible I've played with MT in the past, but in all honesty, I don't remember them at all.

And I feel as though the vast majority of players on this site have no clue how to read me.

Oh it was Gimli.

VOTE: Gimli

so Gimli was talking about the MT kill, that's why norwee wants to vote gimli, I see the gimli wagon was growing soon after, but then stopped growing and flipped to NM having NM go over, and like all gimli pressure stopped in that time? almost to ensure NM went over

[Andante]

Andante, what's your read on Gimli?

Brian tried to revive the Gimli push before NM happened... brian is dead now. and was yeeted by gimli before marquis could come in and give a potential cop check...
VOTE: Gimli

Like, norwee is 100% bussing Gimli, but I'll take it, I definitely am sold on gimli scum

[Andante]

norwee's posting is brutally scummy this gameday but let's take it easy with it i guess

only norwee's posts today are bad? not the whole push on dragons/ethel for being neighbors?

like my think I'm torn on with norwee, which is why I'm more confident on gimli scum, why would norwee kill a neighbor if that was his angle this game you know?
like, "I'm tunneling the neighbors!!" but, scum killed 1, ethel vigged other. that doesn't give norwee the win here mislimming dragons

[Andante]

Why are you even assuming Marquis is a cop? He’s just an afk guy.

I mean, we have no idea, I'm just saying, what if he's had red checks, but unable to share? although.. that would suck today lol

[Andante]

finee, consider my vote on gimli though
UNVOTE:

[Andante]

Andante, what's your read on Gimli?

Brian tried to revive the Gimli push before NM happened... brian is dead now. and was yeeted by gimli before marquis could come in and give a potential cop check...
VOTE: Gimli

Like, norwee is 100% bussing Gimli, but I'll take it, I definitely am sold on gimli scum

can you unvote me for the weekend please? I can't play rn, I want to solve and fortunately the game is long enough that I can do that over the week, this is elo, don't be silly as fuck, thank you

only day 1 is long.. day 3 was barely a page...

[Andante]

norwee's posting is brutally scummy this gameday but let's take it easy with it i guess

only norwee's posts today are bad? not the whole push on dragons/ethel for being neighbors?

like my think I'm torn on with norwee, which is why I'm more confident on gimli scum, why would norwee kill a neighbor if that was his angle this game you know?
like, "I'm tunneling the neighbors!!" but, scum killed 1, ethel vigged other. that doesn't give norwee the win here mislimming dragons

ok so back to this thought, cause yes, like sure norwee is playing like defeated scum right now, but I'm kinda on the kill, like, I've been tunneling ethel all game, surprise!! town! so if norwee was scum why not leave ethel be, you know I'll 100% vote ethel here. but then again, partner could've been like "I'm in good shape, let's do this!" this game is hard. gimli is one, that's easy. MArquis does need to talk.... but norwee is still very likely the other

[Andante]

Btw StD seemed to not suspect me to the end in the hood which is kinda cute.

which would be why dragons only died cause ethel shot him?

[Andante]

hmm, I need more voices to talk. no one hammer the no lim... we need to talk, and this might work better if I shut up for a second and hear others thoughts, also we need to hear from marquis before a hammer of any sort happens

[Andante]

i... what

well im lost

im busy hanging my head in despair and confusion ok

i see, they removed ethel so i would lose my mind

lol reading that reminded me of back with MT's death XD I mean, I can kinda relate, I was deadset on ethel being scum, I hated gimli's "intent to hammer brian" as soon as d3 started, like, rushing the day that fast... when marquis missed d2? actually was marquis even there or just missed the end? yall this game is a blur


YOOOO MARQUIS'S LAST POST IS AN ACTUAL SCUM CLAIM?? MAYBE... lmaoo

Im still delirious lol but I intend to come back this weekend I hope
Do I have to officially say V/LA

Like, this is that "oh haha I'm here... prod dodging...

like, the "most recent" scum team we got was "scumteam is Norwegian, ballpointpen, Ceph"
ballpoint was MT, hmm, marquis really hasn't been here since d1? lmaoo oh this freaking sucks, the iso is not amazing to look back on...

MARQUISSSS WHERE ARE YOU WE MISS YOU

[Andante]

but yeah, I don't ever tr the "I intend to come back..." followed by never returning... that's like, lock scum in my books, but I guess this game is a little different, I know day 3 was stupid fast, but d2? I feel like there was time to return... yall idk.

[Andante]

but marquis... last post was april 14, day 2 ended april 16.. day 2 we seemed to be between gimli and NM, and if the team is marquis + gimli + nm, it would make sense why marquis just opted to wait as long as possible

(I know I said I'd shut up, but I'm waiting for friend to come over and am bored so I'm trying to use brainpower I might now have)

[Andante]

hmm I don't like the silence... like, Elpis? hello? thoughts here?

Marquis.. your post feels like scum trying to pocket me here like, obviously we know it doesn't take much to shift my reads, but "andante town is my 1 confident read" great... how does that help me read you/others? Cause if we're being real the 6 of us seem to be in 2 camps right now.
Me/Ceph/Norwee and Marquis/Elpis/Gimli

3 of us actually putting in some effort here, and 3 not doing much.. like sure gimli is v/la but it's just like, how are we supposed to accomplish anything if we only have 3 voices..

on another note, I hope you're feeling better now Marquis <3

like, I have doubts on norwee being scum, cause yes, scummy as heck, but like, that would say scum!norwee still killed a neighbor when the "plan" was pushing neighbors, and norwee is putting in some effort here, which like, yeah I'm not voting out norwee today/tomorrow (whenever we lim)
I like Ceph being here, could ceph be scum? sure, but compared to my other options, I'd rather lim in marquis/elpis/gimli, elpis seems towny this game, I just played with scum elpis, this feels different I think, I could go back and check, but not now (I'm about to hang out with friend all day )

and then that leaves me at gimli and marquis.

gimli is genuinely scummy as heck, I HATED the rush to lim brian but also gimli was really pushing the "MT died for her reads" narrative, like, there wasn't a whole lot of reason/a case with her reads so ehhh

marquis is trying to pocket me, and I don't tr anything about marquis, and looking at that ISO with hindsight, not sure I love it.

Alright, I'm out for the day, not like anything has changed game-wise since I was last here, but typed up all my thoughts anyways. that's where my brain is at. I'd love to come back to more thoughts from the trio, or if ceph/norwee have new findings... LEGGOOOOO

[Andante]

Alright, fully caught up. Here are my thoughts:

We eliminate someone--
33.3% we eliminate scum, then lose a town, which puts us at 3 town, 1 scum. We would likely be able to learn a lot about who scum 2 would be as a result of learning scum 1. This would be a good outcome, but heavily unlikely I think.
66.6% chance we eliminate town, and instantly lose. This is already awful, but how does it compare to not eliminating...

We DON'T eliminate someone--
We immediately lose a town, and maybe, (unlikely, considering the current pattern) we learn more about who it is based on the result. If we have any power roles, I might suggest letting us know either today or tomorrow, unless the benefit comes from being completely innocuous, of course. I only say this because if they ARE rolecopping, maybe some roles could be helpful? If i'm completely honest, no roles come to mind that I know of that would be helpful since i'm uneducated about them, so this could just all be wrong. If norwe or gimli got eliminated I would actually perish (figuratively), but I don't really expect that because I think they're probably scum. We then have two scum we have to eliminate back to back, or lose.

This seems like we're fucked either way, but at least the RANDOM odds of voting scum out goes up if we don't elim tonight, right? Tomorrow it'd be a 40%, and then if we get it right, it goes down to a 33%, I think? Math is not always my strong suit.

end of the day, we're gonna no lim, but we need marquis and gimli to do stuff first

[Andante]

Marquis, is there a reason you want to vote over no limming? Do you feel confident about Norwe being scum?

didn’t you just have a post going “we could lim here or no lim… math!”
and I said we’re gonna no lim, marquis said lim, and now you’re like “how dare you wanna lim??”

that seem weird to anyone else? or just me? ahhhh this feels like I’m about to take a 1 way ticket to a loss. can’t trust anyone!! paranoid of everyone!!

good night idk anymore

[Andante]

I wanted more from Marquis before going in to night tbh,
I'm currently conflicted on the Gimli slot, I was SRing Gimli a lot, and now Merlyn is like, kinda good but like I'm unsure lol cause the amount of effort is like "woah..." scum that's like "tr me!!!"?? or town that's like "I gotta fix this slot"
I'm so lost on where scum is.
Hey Merlyn, what are your thoughts on Marquis at this point?

[Andante]

YOOOO the neighbors were all town? wtf?? I've literally never even had 2 town neighbors in a game, that's crazy

[Andante]

so I'm alive which means I'm probably wrong on a gimli/marquis solve, so that's real fun

[Andante]

I know it's you elpis

I'll never be able to prove it, but I know it

Cephy I was so sure you were town but now I'm having severe doubts because why else would you shift blame to me immediately when it seems so clear that one of them has to be scum between Andante or Merlyn, or MAYBE Marquis but I'd feel a bit cheated if that were the case honestly.

No, seriously, let's do the klick strategy. Cephrir, elpis, , are you in?

I will trust Cephy's judgement, if that is the best route to town victory, but I am nervous about it.

So you go from doubting Cephrir to saying you'll just sheep Ceph no questions asked? the 2nd post Merlyn was just asking if yall agreed with the idea and you're like "yeah ceph cool!!" like what? we have to lim scum here or we lose...

[Andante]

we need this marquis replacement asap... like, there's literally no point in doing anything till that slot can show up, cause assuming that's the read I'm wrong on, if town, that replacement misvoting causes us to instantly lose, and if scum we're getting 0 interactions to go from

[Andante]

like, sorry not sorry yall, I'm losing interest in this real fast, I know I'm town, I was pretty set on ethel, they flipped town, I was pretty set on a gimli/marquis team yesterday, I'm alive now, so I know that ain't right, unless it is and scum wants me to second guess it, ahhhh

[Andante]

I don't care if yall want to do this "klick thing" or whatever, but I'm voting who I want, I hate how we just started the day and merlyn/elpis are basically like "let's give ceph our votes!!" and that's that... like yall?? more concerned about tossing your vote to someone else than voicing your actual reads?

[Andante]

I'm vt

[Andante]

I genuinely don't feel like doing anything till Marquis 2.0 shows up, I'm wishing ethel vigged that slot over dragons right now

[Andante]

I'm not even sold on ceph being town, but I don't think merlyn/elpis are partnered with ceph, so if ceph is scum it's with marquis, and that fits with what I recall of ceph calling marquis town earlier, and "being so lost" with kills. but merlyn and elpis had TERRIBLE starts here on d5, I'm not entirely sold both them are town. ughhh Marquis... this situation freaking sucks

[Andante]

@Merlyn/Elpis
rather than "I wanna give my vote to X" do yall have any actual thoughts here or nah?

@Ceph, can you remind me what your early TR on Marquis was for?

[Andante]

I don't care if yall want to do this "klick thing" or whatever, but I'm voting who I want, I hate how we just started the day and merlyn/elpis are basically like "let's give ceph our votes!!" and that's that... like yall?? more concerned about tossing your vote to someone else than voicing your actual reads?

Please consider that if two players do decide to give their votes to me then the only thing you can possibly accomplish by voting elsewhere is losing the game if you're town

Yes I understand that, but I hate how they were both like “yeah! ceph has my vote!!” and like, that was that… no concern whatsoever here??? like obviously I’ll listen to who people want to vote/not vote whoever I want right now.. but I hate this idea of throwing hands up like “not my problem!!!” like, if we’re right today, we literally still have tomorrow, and if this is just “we voted scum out cause ceph said so” we have nothing to go on tomorrow

[Andante]

honestly 1938 makes me want to lock ceph in as town, the saves make sense, and why would scum!ceph claim this after 2 people already went “ceph has my vote!!! byeeee”
brings me right back to this marquis issue…

[Andante]

actually… I don’t think merlyn and elpis are partnered, cause of how they entered the day, seems bold if both scum, by default that makes marquis scum, and if I’m alive for bad reads it’s gonna be elpis + marquis I think… I need to reread elpis, all I’m really recalling right now is this d5 start with “It might be ceph!!” then like 10 posts later “I give ceph my vote”

so then merlyn/gimli would be town, but why would town!gimli like instantly yeet brian??

[Andante]

But I need to reevaluate the whole game

lol yeah I feel... the best part of this is that this week is my final week of classes, finals next week lol and like this MArquis replacement... is deadline just going down down down? like, I'd rather it be frozen till replacement shows up

[Andante]

I don't care if yall want to do this "klick thing" or whatever, but I'm voting who I want, I hate how we just started the day and merlyn/elpis are basically like "let's give ceph our votes!!" and that's that... like yall?? more concerned about tossing your vote to someone else than voicing your actual reads?

Yes I understand that, but I hate how they were both like “yeah! ceph has my vote!!” and like, that was that… no concern whatsoever here??? like obviously I’ll listen to who people want to vote/not vote whoever I want right now.. but I hate this idea of throwing hands up like “not my problem!!!” like, if we’re right today, we literally still have tomorrow, and if this is just “we voted scum out cause ceph said so” we have nothing to go on tomorrow

If only there was a a thread explaining the 'klick' thing that you could read called and someone linked for you, they might have answered some of these questions!

Let me give you a small spoiler from it: the people most likely to squirm at this are scum. I think that Elpis knows that, which is why he agreed but registered great reluctance. And now here you are.

If you are town, Andante, you could at least learn what the idea you plan to shoot down is instead of starting to shout about WHY WOULD ANYONE GIVE UP THEIR VOTES. Like, the thread is called 'When to give up your vote'.

like, sorry not sorry yall, I'm losing interest in this real fast, I know I'm town, I was pretty set on ethel, they flipped town, I was pretty set on a gimli/marquis team yesterday, I'm alive now, so I know that ain't right, unless it is and scum wants me to second guess it, ahhhh

I genuinely don't feel like doing anything till Marquis 2.0 shows up

This kind of stuff does not give me confidence I should walk away from the idea because you don't like it, you know?

So I read this, and I'm like, so you think I'm scum for hating the idea if closing my eyes and giving away my vote? like, hello nice to meet you, I'm andante.. someone who changes her vote every 2 seconds on day 1.. yeah I skimmed the klick thread, legit don't see how you and elpis going "ceph has my vote!!" then leaving ever helps town here? I'd rather have a sit down conversation and say why I agree/disagree with what's happening

But anyways your next posts feel like you know I flip town, and I'm not sure I love this feeling of "ANDANTE MAF!! But like, she town" that's the vibe I get from these posts, so makes me wonder if you thought I was an easy pocket, which is why I didn't die last night...

[Andante]

I have a readslist, but I don't want to share it if we're no eliming- I'm hoping that one of two people I just can't see being partners will end up biting it.

I support a no elim- we're in dire straights here, and one less person to pick from benefits town.

VOTE: no elimination

This post, Can I hear more on these 2 people?

[Andante]

cause I don't think you've revisited this thought since day 5 started

[Andante]

I think you're probably town and that's what irritating me about you blowing off the idea.

I mean, I'm not exactly blowing it off, I'm just not comfortable in this game going "I am 100% confident X is town" I was 100% confident ethel was scum, 100% confident scum in neighbors, we see how that turned out, so like, sorry not sorry?? not sure what's confusing about why I hate the idea of "here have my vote" "ok byeee I don't care to make reads any more!!"

Okay, so the theory here is that if town is in must lim or lose situation and there's not strong consensus about who scum is, town can band together and let one person who is the most believed town vote. Why? Because you at least know that they're not going to intentionally mislead town like scum will. Even better if someone agrees and backs out- only scum really have motivation for doing that. And if they go along with it, they're forced to vote even if we catch their partner. And that is how it helps a desperate town that that doesn't already have a good idea of where to go. But it's useless if we all don't agree.

I mean, you're saying you want me to follow in yours and elpis's footsteps? "Ok ceph! you have my vote! this is all on you! byeeee" yeah no. dude, if we're right here, we still have to do this all over again tomorrow. if we all go "hey ceph, pick!" he picks right, then we're in this situation tomorrow with dead!ceph and no information to go off of since we all sheeped. sorry not sorry, I hate the idea. never have I done it in my 11 years of mafia, and I don't plan to start now

annnnd that's all I say on this klick method stuff, it's just this massive waste of time to talk about it

[Andante]

I have a readslist, but I don't want to share it if we're no eliming- I'm hoping that one of two people I just can't see being partners will end up biting it.

I support a no elim- we're in dire straights here, and one less person to pick from benefits town.

VOTE: no elimination

This post, Can I hear more on these 2 people?

Yeah, I can't see Elpis and Cephrir being partners.

what? this feels like a really odd read, what about them made you think that?
also the whole "if we're no limming" like, what? it was 6 alive, we had no clue whatsoever, in what world would we lim there? we were waiting for Marquis to do something...

[Andante]

I have a readslist, but I don't want to share it if we're no eliming- I'm hoping that one of two people I just can't see being partners will end up biting it.

I support a no elim- we're in dire straights here, and one less person to pick from benefits town.

VOTE: no elimination

This post, Can I hear more on these 2 people?

Yeah, I can't see Elpis and Cephrir being partners.

what? this feels like a really odd read, what about them made you think that?
also the whole "if we're no limming" like, what? it was 6 alive, we had no clue whatsoever, in what world would we lim there? we were waiting for Marquis to do something...

cause we sped through the past 2 lims... cough cough... your slot

[Andante]

It would tell me who was definitely town, and then I'd have a better clue to what I think about the survivor.

wanna know who is DEFINITELY town? the dead people. Honestly, I know I had this confidence to my SRs earlier, but like, seeing stuff like this just really annoys me right now, like, where does this confidence in your reads even come from?? sure would be easy for scum to have all the confidence in the world right now, as all you need to do is lim 1 town and it's game...

So ceph/elpis dies, and you said they're not partnered.. which makes the dead one the confirmed town? idk where you're going with this

[Andante]

My thinking was if elpis died then I was looking at this game completely wrong and I would have suspected you more as someone who had been fooling elpis. And if you died I would have rethought my position on elpis because that would have been a poor choice for him, since you've been a supporter.

I still don't understand this thought process lol, you definitely made it seem like you had this solid plan going on

[Andante]

I wonder if there's any merit to trying to solve the whole game at once here

I hate doing that (preflipping) but perhaps it makes sense in the situation

Doesn't really work as well if one scum is marquis but

I mean, I feel like that makes the most sense, like, confident in a team here. but yeah MArquis slot makes that not really work. and like deadline for the day is just counting down as we wait for this replacement??

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I'm over this game, not gonna lie yall, I almost just went "yolo" and voted this marquis slot earlier, but was like, no... wait for this replacement.... this game is frustrating beyond belief

[Andante]

I wonder if there's any merit to trying to solve the whole game at once here

I hate doing that (preflipping) but perhaps it makes sense in the situation

Doesn't really work as well if one scum is marquis but

Also, with 5 it's like really easy to just go TR here, "X and Y are not partnered" Z must be scum, but again. MArquis slot makes this not work super well.

[Andante]

idk, people saying "if we no lim" feels like hinting towards "I'm ok if we lim!!" which will encourage people like me to go "yeah!!! let's do it!!!" and make me ignore all logic and yeah

[Andante]

Merlyn, if we limmed yesterday, who would you have been good with limming?

[Andante]

I wonder if there's any merit to trying to solve the whole game at once here

I hate doing that (preflipping) but perhaps it makes sense in the situation

Doesn't really work as well if one scum is marquis but

I mean, I feel like that makes the most sense, like, confident in a team here. but yeah MArquis slot makes that not really work. and like deadline for the day is just counting down as we wait for this replacement??

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I'm over this game, not gonna lie yall, I almost just went "yolo" and voted this marquis slot earlier, but was like, no... wait for this replacement.... this game is frustrating beyond belief

I honestly find this part the most exciting though, like when there's a chance to pull it back from the brink?

ehhh if this game had played out differently I'd probably be more hyped here, now it's like "not this again... dead thread don't be yelling at me please if im wrong" I hate this situation so much, cause I know I'm alive tomorrow too, so I essentially have to be right both times. and if I'm wrong, no pressure... it's only losing the game, and all I want to do right now is vote out marquis, taking everything in me to not throw my vote there. deadass I was walking home from the bus today like "I better wait for this replacement to do something" but then it was like "I really don't think this replacement can change my mind" and I think back to like d2 where everyone was all "I expected marquis to die?? sus" but then there was 0 marquis talk and we raced through some lims, and here we are.

[Andante]

You are not on to something here, it was really just a statement. I promise you did not catch me being scum with the word 'if' lol.

mhmm we shall see XD plus if I say it now, looks so much cooler if true, then post game I go "TOLD YALL!!!" hahahaha

Elpis. How about you?

I would've yeeted Marquis I think lol. ooh so elpis is your strongest sr? except it's really not feeling like that to me lol

[Andante]

I just don't get why we can't talk out reads here, see where people feel best about going, and go from there? like, it's essentially the same thing as this "1 person calls the shots" method yall seem to love, except here everyone is giving input... but again, 1/5 of the players are non existent right now..

[Andante]

I mean the entire marquis case is essentially "done nothing all game"

[Andante]

Really? Because I'm pretty sure most of my posts are related to them in some way. who did you think was my strongest scumread?

mehh feels like you've just been talking about everyone, like "gotta leave my options open!!" I haven't felt you going in any one way particularly

[Andante]

I just don't get why we can't talk out reads here, see where people feel best about going, and go from there? like, it's essentially the same thing as this "1 person calls the shots" method yall seem to love, except here everyone is giving input... but again, 1/5 of the players are non existent right now..

yo, who's stopping you? I literally just asked for your read on Marquis.

pretty sure I've already given it at some point? it's definitely with my "gimli is scum" stuff

also, idk how valid this is, but NM might have been helpful, the "scum talk about how scummy their slot is when they replace in" thing he tried to use on me, Merlyn has like talked nonstop about how scummy Gimli was, even the "probably repped out from embarrassment" like, Gimli was V/LA before repping out, probably didn't have time to deal with the SRs going his way, idk, that's a common theme I've been... not loving here, the "Gimli was scummy!!! but I'm town!!" like, am I just supposed to ignore the entirety of this slot? Gimli is the reason Brian instantly died, that day was maybe 12 hours.. I can't recall anything else from Gimli would have to reread, but I'm kinda back to thinking about all this "my slot was scummy you should sr me" and like, from the moment you repped in it was like "HERE IS MAXIMUM EFFORT" and today is all "I HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THIS STRAT" like, you say elpis is your top SR, you know Ceph TRs Elpis, and you give Ceph your vote???

[Andante]

idk, the more I think about this game the more my brain hurts

[Andante]

lol 4 days and we don't even have a replacement yet, the odds are in our favor!

I mean, Marquis being scum would make a lot of sense with this, I just would love to hear from that slot before actually voting there though

[Andante]

also, idk how valid this is, but NM might have been helpful, the "scum talk about how scummy their slot is when they replace in" thing he tried to use on me, Merlyn has like talked nonstop about how scummy Gimli was, even the "probably repped out from embarrassment" like, Gimli was V/LA before repping out, probably didn't have time to deal with the SRs going his way, idk, that's a common theme I've been... not loving here, the "Gimli was scummy!!! but I'm town!!" like, am I just supposed to ignore the entirety of this slot? Gimli is the reason Brian instantly died, that day was maybe 12 hours.. I can't recall anything else from Gimli would have to reread, but I'm kinda back to thinking about all this "my slot was scummy you should sr me" and like, from the moment you repped in it was like "HERE IS MAXIMUM EFFORT" and today is all "I HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THIS STRAT" like, you say elpis is your top SR, you know Ceph TRs Elpis, and you give Ceph your vote???

Are you saying...you're taking advice from the confirmed scum on how to hunt his fellow scum? Follow your own logic here for a second. You're saying that you're town, and NM was wrong to try and use the 'scum talk about how scummy their slot is when they replace in'. You, however, will be right to try and use the same argument against me.

It would be insane for me not not acknowledge how bad gimli made our slot look. Every time I have acknowledged it is because someone was commenting on it and I don't know how ignoring it makes me look more town.

I'm here to play, I think it's fun, I put in maximum effort in every game I do. The idea that I would be more tr by you if I had come in and been a little quieter doesn't sound true to me. Gimil looked bad, so with that lens you're viewing everything I say tainted by that. That's why you're trying to argue with me about what the word 'if' meant when I said it.

I mean yeah obviously I'm viewing you from that scum sided lens, like don't get me wrong, I look at these posts and go "wow! so much effort!" but I've been told time after time "effort does not equal town" and like your 2 person thing that felt like you had some solid case behind it or whatever, seems like a weaker thought you had, but at the time you seemed to have all this confidence in it, like "IF THE DEATH IS IN 2 PEOPLE I GOT THIS!!" and like now it's all "ehh didn't happen, whatever" and your "elpis is my strongest sr" like, yeah I genuinely couldn't tell who your top SR was from your posts, it just seems like you're all "town and scum reasons for all!"

so yeah, I look at you like "wow.. so many words... lots of effort" but then when I really look at them it's like, ehhh probably not as towny as it first looked,

ahhhh it's so late right now, I keep telling myself time away will help me see this differently, but ehh not sure that's really the case right now

[Andante]

Days
- 14 day deadlines.

There's no way we have a 4 day deadline right now

[Andante]

ah yes, I can give analysis on scummy gimli stuff, that gimli can't explain, and merlyn will sit here and go " ah yes! so scummy, but gimli was town"

[Andante]

whelp, if there's questions for me, let me know! I'll be back late tomorrow, I'm not even entirely sold on merlyn!scum, I meant to look into elpis, that shall be a later thing though

[Andante]

VC 4.03

With 6 players, it takes 4 to make a decision. Day 4 ends in (expired on 2023-05-06 00:30:00).

VC

NorwegianboyEE [1]:

Marquis [1814]

No elimination [1]:

Elpis [1813]

Not voting [4]:

Andante [1747], Merlyn, Cephrir [1749], NorwegianboyEE

Mod Notes

• Joint Mod ISO

Flavor

Spoiler: Frankfurt

Not sure if this was like a townslip or some attempt to dumbtell? cause I'm not sure how you think this is the most recent VC, says day 4, Norwee (who is dead) is the top wagon

[Andante]

also this made me notice, marquis voting norwee? norwee died, and marquis is gone.. hmmm there's so much to this game, but based on how merlyn has been playing, I don't think I believe Merlyn genuinely thought this was the "most recent vc" like, you trying to rush us into voting??

like yeah, I was looking at that "vc lol" chilling on the top of a recent page like "how long is day", but then went to page 1... so ehhh

[Andante]

I wanna vote merlyn right now... not gonna lieeeeee

[Andante]

I also want new marquis to join us asap

[Andante]

up to p3 I'm pretty sure marquis managed to spew themselves town and I'm townreading FBer's #72 on why he is pushing NSG.

2nd post in the gimli iso. hmmm

[Andante]

of course elpis is also a townie

lol nice

[Andante]

the problem with nsg wagon is...its very easy to hop on without actually saying much about it. And I feel some people on it are like not commenting or examining anyone else which makes me hesitant to add anymore votes on it.

whereas andante. I don't see as town right now or scummy
I could also hop on not mafia but the problem there is i don't think hoping on that will make not mafia magically readable and or help sort anyone else who hops on. So I am left with wanting to push my nulls.

glimli is andante town then for u if this wagon is ass

yeah its

I played with scum andante and she was quite reactionary like she is being here but I feel like here she replaced into a not-scummy-slot and her posting hasn't been awkward and rn the strength of how much she believes in herself seems like things andante might have trouble replicating as mafia

attempt to pocket me?

[Andante]

StD doesn't obvtown. He is more like silent town with eventually decent good takes on day 2 and onwards that goes unappreciated

so true

I have stronger tr on firebringer by the time of this post

norwee can prob be town too

I think nsg is a townie? seems self aware in a way that's too incredible to come from scum.

but feels like trying to pocket fire more

[Andante]

nsg scumreads are really dumb

Wagoning N_M is just so dull but i also want them resolved.

where did that strong NM scumread came from?

Brian Skies - idk

Andante - town

northsidegal - town

Marquis - town

Not_Mafia - idk

Gimli - the gim
Cephrir - idk

Ethel - town

Elpis - town

Save The Dragons - idk town?
NorwegianboyEE - idk town?
ballpointpen - scum?
Firebringer - town

I didn't realiz all this "TR TR TR!!!" stuff, and like, coloring it by the flips, I don't love this list lol

[Andante]

and what I think is interesting is that NM thing, like Gimli is just over there judging reads, whatever, but you say you have NM as "idk" but 577 feels a little defensive for someone you don't have a read on

[Andante]

I can flip NM

I think this take seems decent though. but I get that it's good in a more likely than not to be tmi

and then "yeah I'm cool flipping NM"

[Andante]

like, 10 posts from "where did that sr come from?" to "I can flip NM"

the more I read the scummier I find this slot lol, but I hate this kind of reading cause merlyn here is just gonna go "wasn't me!!"

[Andante]

Marquis is clearly playing seriously by [post]111[/[post], which is just a vote with no explanation yet- but for some reason a bunch of posts happen and no one asks why, or tries to get serious with him. I see there are some dead townies in there, but I’m wondering if there was also scum trying to prolong the silly fun times.

I give up on Gimli stuff, after that reads list... I don't TR anything I'm reading lmao
figured I'd look aback at merlyn's entrance
This is right as Merlyn is catching up, this feels like scum repping in going "I'm gonna bus my partner who isn't doing anything, and carry the team!!" like, I want to say I was throwing around Gimli and Marquis's names around that time too? -not certain, but I do think Merlyn knew Marquis wasn't a TR, and thus made this post, feels like an odd post for "catching up"

[Andante]

I mean I'm aware I'm being a stick in the mud but I do think scum appreciate being able to hop in with random talk the past 12 pages like most of town have been. I guess scum could coast like NSG but don't think anything about this demoralizes scum

Yup, that’s my thinking too, I think scum has no problem prolonging the randomness and funniness of the game so far.

HE ALWAYS HAMMERS EVERYTHING UNVOTE NOW

Okay, that’s pretty darn town.

What a wild situation! Two now conf town almost threw a hammer to a now conf scum. I’ll be honest, I’d be scumreading NSG/Brian right then if I’d been in game.

No free outs. You have to suffer like the rest of us.

Y’all

Not gonna lie, the catch up posts like this, sure at first they look great, but I'm sitting here reading it now like, there's nothing to it other than random commentary, like, fire being fire is pretty darn town?

[Andante]

So my slot essentially caused the D1 mislim, sucks to be me

Ppl on the Enchant wagon that aren't conf town: Cephrir, Elpis, NorwegianboyEE. I think there has to be scum there. The idea that it was an all-town wagon is too much for me.

Okay, have to take a break but will start again tomorrow

So we just drop the idea that Ceph is in this pool that "must contain scum" and give him our vote here? ah yes! klick strat is flawless!!

(ok, gotta go to class, I'll be back to reading tonight!)

the more I read this slot the more tunneled on merlyn/gimli I get, like, there's no way this is town

[Andante]

uhh I looked back, went "this looks bad" and yeah. you suggested I look into Gimli, yeah.
anyways, change of plans, prof just sent out the review for finals and it's kinda a lot so I'm just gonna focus on finishing this semester for the next week, might show up this weekend, but Tues/Wed of next week I'm going all in and solving this game.

@TOWN - if you are town, PLEASE do not vote anyone in the next 7 days

@Whoever cares, I'm going V/LA for the next week - I need to focus on finals (I literally failed an entire semester because of mafia before and that got me an extra year... I'm supposed to graduate in 2 weeks!!! finals timeeee )
(I promise I'm delivering on content/walls of reads when I'm back! I have no doubts there)

[Andante]

Elpis, who are you thinking is scum here? cause how you’re posting feels like you just tr everyone/aren’t really trying to figure out scum

[Andante]

I’m kinda liking this new Marquis… hahahahahaha this game, is it just cause Marquis 2.0 agrees with me?

I’m legit just sitting here like “Is it just Ceph??” hahahahaha I don’t have much time before class, but this game…

[Andante]

I still stand by, please do not vote any earlier than wednesday of next week, I still have stuff I want to look into

[Andante]

I mean the more you’re like “I’m clear cause my role” the more I’m like, it honestly could make sense for scum to have bg, town running around with vigs, scum likely have some sort of protection themselves, and that could explain the ethel death pretty well… ethel shoots scum protected by bg, ethel died, scum killed dragons, just saying.

Like, I don’t even fully believe you’re scum yet, but you seem to have this mindset of “I’m clear BECAUSE i’m bg” and like no one is questioning it? seems odd to me

[Andante]

I mean the more you’re like “I’m clear cause my role”

you say this like it's a claim i've made more than literally just once just now

well you just made this claim, and you aren't doing much, so yeah it feels like that

[Andante]

Andante is a wild card

hahahaha I'll take that as a compliment

[Andante]

lol this feels like you set off on the mission that I was scum then tried to find whatever to prove it... I know I'll do that sometimes when I get tunneld, but bruhhh half that "case" is literally just SRing me for being me? if you're going that much at me for how I play, you might just want to go skim past games of mine

[Andante]

like, it feels like Peregrine was backed into a corner and was forced to make a move, and went "oh! andante is so easy to push"
like dude, sorry you weren't here but this game has not been anywhere near as simple as you seem to think it was.

[Andante]

when fber is SUPER DUPER TOWNIE thats when he is town got it

you think he’s SUPER TOWN right now?
SUPER TOWN cause of the meme post?

I also am making this post as a personal bookmark in case I do not get to everything I want but! I have thoughts!!

Maybe I should use notes somewhere at some point but I am going to build off of this bookmark with a scrap of a thought! There is a consistent shift in Andante's reads regarding Gimli, which begins with their interactions feeling as if there's not a lot of solving from Andante's end when Gimli had a townread on her. But then she does shift to suspicion at said townread! And then to "I don't know but I wanna flip these other people before I dig in!" To... wanting to sheep him! (I have posts for these that I am not adding in to not clog the thread, but I can pull these if needed!) To a bit scummy again, and in the endgame (where I think it is most necessary to hedge your bets against a partner!) a scumread that does wavers at times but seems to be far more... rational, I suppose! Than the Ethel read was at the beginning!

Which I do not know what that says about Andante, the difference between a tunnel and a more fleshed out reasoning! I do know it is easier to scumread a partner as you know exactly what they're doing wrong, but I do not want to discredit the chance Andante could be right without additional information!

I really don't understand why the Ethel tunneling was a thing...

you don't understand? you were literally someone who was here in the moment yet you never wanted to ask me for clarification on that wagon? yeah I was convinced ethel was scum

[Andante]

Just making sure-- the takeaway here is that norwe was killed because scum was under the impression that they would not be able to get them voted out?

Scum knew I wasn't going to vote norwee (true or not? idk, I say a lot of things in the moment) so rather than kill someone else, leave someone I was "never voting" alive, I'm guessing they killed norwee to better their chances of a town lim

[Andante]

im not sure i love how quickly you two seem to have arrived on the same page!

That was my exact same reaction... like, it takes Peregrine forcing a scum team of me + merlyn to work, which reading that case, I just go "lol that's so bad" and elpis is all "yes!!! andante + merlyn!!"

[Andante]

Us arriving at the same page isn't something that should be odd.

Right, when your entire ISO seems to just be you agreeing with everyone, "not odd at all"

[Andante]

I mean, I tried telling you ethel seemed scummy yesterday, then that turned into "ANDANTE LIES!!" or whatever lol

Another example of the discrediting!

Like, I don't even think I want to bother responding to any of this case, you're 100% missing the context I had behind my post, it sure is easy to walk in here and go "lol yall were so bad!!" when literally all you have to do here is survive 1 lim

[Andante]

Not gonna lie, I hate that "case" so much I legit just wanna vote Peregrine. however, I shall wait for merlyn to return, cause also, you just conveniently pick the 2 of us who aren't around to defend ourselves? like no thanks. Also, what you failed to account for in your "case" was
1- my playstyle
2- gimli and I are friends, so obviously I'll just write him off as town, deal with others, then return

my current solve is peregrine + elpis, but I also think it's cause I hate the "case" and I hate the "yeah! good case!!" crap. wooo. good morning! time for coffee lol

[Andante]

I think that Andante's reaction continues the pattern of dismissing people who suspect her in an illogical way!

how about instead of tunneling me for how I play you put half as much effort into tunneling my partner here, cause I'm scum yes? you sure seem to be ignoring that partner of mine, main focus is tunneling me. which let me say, is real original

[Andante]

That being said, despite my current feelings if you are town

please

engage with me in a different way - I do not know how to work with a response this reactive! You have jumped immediately to disparaging my thoughts with responses I cannot work with, either, as they are not grounded from my perspective in actual content! I need to better understand your thoughts and actions than what you are doing now.

What am I supposed to engage with? you say this as if you've asked me questions you want answers to. you haven't. you've just gone "there's no way andante is town" you are only pushing me for garbage reasons, I'm fairly certain you don't want my thoughts on every comment you have to say about me here.

Not gonna lie, the lack of you pushing merlyn is really feeling like scum team is you + merlyn here

[Andante]

I find it! Rather comforting to type like this, but if it is annoying I will try to stop!

Nope, now that I know you're not yelling it doesn't bother me.

The thing is, though, this is how Andante plays regardless of alignment (you don't have to take my word for it, read/skim some of her other games) . Any scumcase you make on her gamestyle isn't going to be a compelling one to me.

the fact that I think that his play this game would venture into absurdity if he was a mafia for the amount of mafia-siding he would have had to do with his pushes

This is a good point, and I think something similar- I noticed it when I started making notes of who was on what wagon.

I currently feel as if Elpis has not pushed much, if any, of an agenda this game and interfaced with Norwee in a way that made me feel as if they would not choose to kill him

Can you give me a concrete example of this? I'm asking because I have a very different take on that.

to me this feels like partners interacting, I'm honestly so ready to full send it on Marquis/Marquis 2.0 and Merlyn as the solve

[Andante]

Nah I'm definitely fine full sending it here with a vote.
I feel confident with this, going here.

VOTE: Peregrine

[Andante]

I guess I don't have a choice of what I do anymore!!

lol but wasn't I your #1 scum read? and aparantly the only scumread, cause you couldn't case anyone else

[Andante]

you're making me have doubts lol but me unvoting does nothing since you're voting me

[Andante]

UNVOTE:

MOM IM SCARED

[Andante]

ok fine, or don't unvote me...

[Andante]

VOTE: Peregrine

MOM IM COMITTED

[Andante]

UNVOTE:

[Andante]

I kinda think I wanna go Merlyn here, I'm having doubts on you lol like serious doubts

[Andante]

and in the event we were were just T/T we got lucky from the other 3 not being around lol

[Andante]

but idk, as much as I'm not a major fan of how you can like only case me/whatever, this live interaction:

[Andante]

I guess I don't have a choice of what I do anymore!! I've accepted this is going to be a loss based on everyone who I think is town's posting so, good game everyone!! I don't really know what else I could say at this point to convince anyone to go elsewhere if it's not even based on my actions anymore!!

VOTE: Andante

like, I'm not sure I wanna send it with a vote on you here tbh

[Andante]

there's a part of me that's just like "that seems towny"

[Andante]

ehhh even if I get revoted by peregrine, I shall now send it on my new top scum read: Merlyn

VOTE: Merlyn

like, this slot has just been all "gimli was so scummy yeah!!!" it's like, yeah I think it's merlyn/peregrine, but that reaction? honestly I don't wanna yeet peregrine now, I'm going to the other, and we can deal with a final 3 later!

[Andante]

I am!! Thinking about the ramifications of this right now! There is some part of me that does not trust this change of heart but I believe that a town you might see that I am also town and respond like this, so!!

I mean, hey, you're definitely allowed to just wait it out and see what happens, I'm not saying you must join this vote lol but yeah, I just genuinely think that was this towny reaction to my vote

[Andante]

which means us being in final 3 will be a fun one lol but we can deal with that tomorrow XD

[Andante]

ooh

[Andante]

ceph + elpis + peregrine all are around

[Andante]

none yall are quickhammering? LETS GOOOOOO

[Andante]

ooh lol I was like "this means I'm not wrong!!!"

[Andante]

UNVOTE:

[Andante]

I scared. How confident are you in that ceph?

[Andante]

like, I wanna say if peregrine was scum and not with merlyn, they'd have stuck around

hahaha facts XD I unvote fast

[Andante]

Look I'm no mafia god if this is what you want to roll with them... At least I can stop stressing about the game if we're wrong

yeah, I'm gonna roll with this, cause my other "possible team" was honestly you + elpis, but yall didn't hammer merlyn.

YOLO DONT HATE ME IF WRONG
VOTE: Merlyn

[Andante]

Also my GOODNESS guys i'm on my phone am I gonna need to move to desktop just to be caught up? Terrifying

I mean, start of day, didn't you say you were just gonna vote whoever ceph voted?

[Andante]

how would that be terrifying?

[Andante]

UNVOTE:

[Andante]

lmaoo ceph... I'm scared. both elpis and peregrine are like "I'm here on phone!!" like what??

[Andante]

Ah shit, knowing Cephy is town, and I'm town means that one of either Peregrine or Andante is scum

you know ceph is town? lol

[Andante]

I don't understand what is happening!! people showing up on their phones when I vote is like, why??

[Andante]

lmaoo ceph... I'm scared. both elpis and peregrine are like "I'm here on phone!!" like what??

I know I'm scared too

You're not tryina keep me in your pocket by matching my emotions right :v

Nah

hahahaha I wish, nah I'm just confused. Like, I'm voting merlyn, haven't gotten blitzed, but elpis is like "im gonna need to hop on a computer" and "I know ceph town" and peregrine originally went to bed, but is back now?? yolo I'm back to sending it, if anyone is gonna try and blitz, go for it. we settle this now

VOTE: Merlyn

[Andante]

hmmm

[Andante]

yeah cool, I'm keeping this. have fun! my job here is done

[Andante]

With everyone aroudn but Merlyn Ithink that it means Merlyn has to be mafia to not be dead unless there is trouble coordinating but I don't think that is the case!!

lol you mean "there is a confirmed scum in Andante/Merlyn"

[Andante]

With everyone aroudn but Merlyn Ithink that it means Merlyn has to be mafia to not be dead unless there is trouble coordinating but I don't think that is the case!!

lol you mean "there is a confirmed scum in Andante/Merlyn"

and if I recall, Antante was your top SR...

[Andante]

I'm honestly sending it on peregrine the second day starts tomorrow

[Andante]

Should we just try it? Or is it wiser to wait and give it more consideration? I kind of feel the latter but I am very unsure because I do feel like maybe Merlyn should be dead right now

try what? lol

[Andante]

Cephies be malding

oh just wait till day 6, I'm setting alarms for the second day starts and INSTA yeeting peregrine lmao

[Andante]

oooh merlyn is now e-1 0.0

[Andante]

Sorry if I seem whiny but!! I really don't like having tofight a battle I cannot win, it just makes me upset to have put in effort that doesn't matter in the end!!!

shhhh I might be planning on autovoting someone else... either way, I am AUTOvoting if alive tomorrow lmao

[Andante]

I'm not sure that makes any sense to say and now I'm just conflicted. I really don't want to vote actually

what do you mean?

[Andante]

peregrine and ceph have had plenty of time to hammer that, why are you now all "I'm so unsure??"

[Andante]

Sorry if I seem whiny but!! I really don't like having tofight a battle I cannot win, it just makes me upset to have put in effort that doesn't matter in the end!!!

shhhh I might be planning on autovoting someone else... either way, I am AUTOvoting if alive tomorrow lmao

what is autovoting?

voting the second day starts?

[Andante]

I'm not sure that makes any sense to say and now I'm just conflicted. I really don't want to vote actually

what do you mean?

What Peregrine said about voting them out to save a kill tomorrow or something? If they're town that makes no sense and if they're scum it ALSO feels like it doesn't make sense

ok but, merlyn is confirmed scum right now. like, there is no way for merlyn to be town unless the scum team is exactly you and me based on the votes. do you see that?

[Andante]

VOTE: merlyn

Good luck tomorrow

pshhh we both know scum fear me more! have fun tomorrow Cephrir!!

[Andante]

VOTE: Merlyn
I am voting merlyn right?

[Andante]

VOTE: Merlyn
I am voting merlyn right?

cause hahahaha that would be funny if I wasn't

[Andante]

gg <3

[Andante]

GG all!! I honestly had so much fun!!
Was laughing at all the "why that kill??" cause I was like "yeah X is the best kill here!!" then town was all "what?? makes 0 sense"

but yeah, so much fun with yall!!

[Andante]

Good game sorry friends

I was just never getting andante in ten thousand years and clearly the scumteam took advantage of that

<3

[Andante]

Wait till yall learn the scum roles were 3 goons... versus all yalls PRs lol

[Andante]

I definitely panicked at the marquis and gimli replacements lol, I was like "ELPIS... WE'RE DOOMED" merlyn, peregrine, yall did great!! definitely tough to rep in at the end like that

[Andante]

Elpis! You are great, and I hope we get to play together again!!

P-Edit: I think you played it beautifully, perfect answers really!

Aww, thank you, I really appreciate it! It's been really funky because I've only done two games now and both have been on scum side-- I genuine think playing town is gonna be incredibly difficult and I will be lost, haha

i
Nah you'll be good at town!!! You got this!! I believe in you!!

[Andante]

I definitely panicked at the marquis and gimli replacements lol, I was like "ELPIS... WE'RE DOOMED" merlyn, peregrine, yall did great!! definitely tough to rep in at the end like that

Andante, you were a force to be reckoned with!! Your gameplay as scum or town is exactly the same, that's incredible.

Thank you!!!