Open 100 - F + E x 2 + TOG OVER! before 712
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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I reread HP's post and I think that he was asking if we would know who would be responsible for a certain nightkill. If we get a distinction between the nightkills of Wolves and Mafia, we probably have an easier time finding associations later on.
(In other words, I didn't get Wall-E's point. Wouldn't distancing between the Mafia and victim for example, happen during day?)Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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- Joined: November 19, 2008
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1438
- Joined: November 19, 2008
- Location: California, USA
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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- Posts: 1438
- Joined: November 19, 2008
- Location: California, USA
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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- Joined: November 19, 2008
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We all know that.Doc wrote:
I acknowledged that his stance on the MO question made sense to me, even though I hold that it was marginally indicative of pro-town intentions.Tenchi wrote:
Hi Doc!Doc wrote:Fair enough.
May I ask what you "understood"/saw as "fair enough" from Wall-E's post?
Obviously my brain could not understand what Wall-E meant and I was hoping that you could actually explain what Wall-E was trying to say, given that you agreed with him.
So, what did you understand from what Wall-E said?Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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Does this also mean you agree with Wall-E that HP is scummy and "is a good choice" for a vote?
vote count
popsofctown (3): doc, budja, peter?
doc (2): seraphim, zazier
hp [leaves] (1): wall-e
peter? (1): popsofctown
not voting: everyone else
note - the person who is in line to be lynched will always be at the top, and the rest will be in descending order.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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- Posts: 1438
- Joined: November 19, 2008
- Location: California, USA
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1438
- Joined: November 19, 2008
- Location: California, USA
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1438
- Joined: November 19, 2008
- Location: California, USA
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1438
- Joined: November 19, 2008
- Location: California, USA
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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Well I apologize if I thought that timelines in Mafiascum are faster than they really were.
(Well unless he posts something, or something else comes up, I'm keeping my vote on him)
So yeah, vote me for asking legitimate questions and trying to keep my mouth shut when I have nothing useful to say because it has been already said by someone. I talk too much in most of my games, when in fact I actually try to be helpful which ends up with me being lynched or first killed LOL
*Keeps mouth shut*Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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It's there scattered in the thread but if you ask nicely I can summarize it for you:
I initially thought it was slightly pro-town.
Wall-E disagreed and then Doc seconded it. What really poked my curiosity was how easy it was for Doc to drop defense for HP, since I shared the same opinion as he did. With that, I decided to ask him a few questions, hoping he can make me understand what Wall-E's point was and hoping I'd get information on what he really thinks on the issue. I think I succeeded on that. And what I think about it? I think it was a dissociation from HP. But I'm not really sure, that's why I didn't even put an FoS on Doc and just let the issue be. I didn't think it was THAT big, that's why I didn't even bother to say anything about it. Why am I saying it now, because I don't see any reason to keep that suspicion to myself. At least you guys know where I stand, though at the same time I try not to rock the boat unnecessarily.
Now, I now think THE CONTENT OF THE POST it's a null-tell because Wall-E's and Doc's original argument just counter each other. Both scum and town have reasons to ask the question. Now for the argument of BH that scum would be more cautious and would ask via PM instead of posting is WIFOM, especially that it was said that HP was a seasoned player (according to BH that is). Look how good it's working.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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Wall-E said it first: In the event that the MO is not revealed, all scum can can distance themselves from their group kill easily as compared to when they have mafia/warewolf tracks all over it.ZazieR wrote:It was a random vote. Afterwards I read the whole game again and started to make this part of the discussion. Your's and Doc's responces about hp post stood out.
And why would the mafia or the wolfes want to know this?Soveliss wrote:As town it is our task to lynch those that are killing so it makes no difference if its a mafia kill or wolf kill.
Now that I think about it, I can't seem to think of an easy example for this argument... although I still think it is a valid counter to my initial reaction.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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Are you reading everything?Soveliss wrote:
I dont know what the motives for the mafia or wolves would be for knowing this, but what would town find useful from knowing this?ZazieR wrote:
And why would the mafia or the wolfes want to know this?
[/quote]
Tenchi's vote on HP comes off strange to me. Seems he is trying to park his vote on the easiest target he can find. HP has been the prime discussion thus far and was a easy target.[/b]
Who says I was targetting him? Parking yes, starting an inquisition on him no. And besides, if I took my vote off him, then people would ask me why, and I really have no reason to unvote him since I see no other suspicious behavior, only certain associations.
No. You're the one who's bandwagonning. Or at least I think so. I'm obviously somebody who can't keep his mouth shut making me an easy lynch.Vote Tenchi
For trying to start a bandwagon on a easy target.
Vote: SovelissYes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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True, you didn't share the same opinion as he did. I forgot about the part where you answered my question. However, you DID quickly drop your defense against HP.Doc wrote:unvote, vote: Tenchi
Fail. Read what I say a little more thoroughly next time. Please point out where I say that I share Wall-E's opinion on the matter? Considering it a valid stance isn't the same as agreeing with it. I don't like misreps.Tenchi wrote:Wall-E disagreed and then Doc seconded it. What really poked my curiosity was how easy it was for Doc to drop defense for HP, since I shared the same opinion as he did.
Not contrived. It was incomplete. I didn't have any conclusions to make. As you said, it was very weak.
Your lack of any mention of this implies to me that your suspicion is contrived.But I'm not really sure, that's why I didn't even put an FoS on Doc and just let the issue be. I didn't think it was THAT big, that's why I didn't even bother to say anything about it.
"I try not to rock the boat unnecessarily" isn't a very pro-town play early game. Nor ever. Perhaps you don't want to stand out of the crowd with your mad scumhunting skillz?Why am I saying it now, because I don't see any reason to keep that suspicion to myself. At least you guys know where I stand, though at the same time I try not to rock the boat unnecessarily.
[/quote]
Actually, kinda yes. I usually become scum at most of my games and I am very good at it. When I become town, I get lynched first day or first night most of the time. I went to MafiaScum to hopefully improve my "mad scumhunting skillz".Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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Thanks. I sincerely appreciate that.Budja wrote:Well you are doing a good job at attracting suspicion so far.
Don't claim you seem scummy because you always do. That holds no water. Defend yourself properly.
FOS Tenchi
Well If I clarify my answer about "not being protown with not rocking the boat unnecessarily":
Well, if there was one thing I wanted to learn here in MafiaScum was the thing about trying to not get in the way (which was what I interpreted as "not rocking the boat unnecessarily"), I have never really learned how to do that in a long term game because I'm "impatient" (because I'm so used at being aggressive at my quicker games). If I am to help you guys, I'd rather stand a bit back because, my scumdar needs a LOT of polishing (i.e. half-baked suspicion on Doc). Hopefully I improve as this game goes along.
Well at least I saw a voting pattern on Soveliss through that whole thing.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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(That post kinda comes off as a bit rude, sorry)ZazieR wrote:
Why are you asking this to Soveliss?Tenchi wrote:Are you reading everything?
I was annoyed. There has been like a couple of posts explaining why a revelation of the MO would be helpful for town, including that other Wiki-like summary I made. It makes me think he's not reading everything... or maybe he's just selectively reading. He was updated with my status as an "easy lynch/bandwagon" but he wasn't updated on the issue of why the MO would be helpful for town.
That combined with his jumping on me (yep, slight OMGUS), led to my vote. Most suspicious thing I've seen so far.
That was about me unvoting HP. Please read it in context of what I was answering. I found something suspicious on Soveliss, hence my change of vote (see reason above).
Should the bolded matter?Tenchi wrote:Who says I was targetting him? Parking yes, starting an inquisition on him no. And besides,if I took my vote off him, then people would ask me why,and I really have no reason to unvote him since I see, only certain associations.no other suspicious behavior
If you don't see any suspicious behaviour, then why did you change your vote?
See the underlined part, explain the 'other'.
If my lynch would help town if I turn up townie, sure!
So if you survive this day and night, you're scum ?Tenchi wrote:Actually, kinda yes. I usually become scum at most of my games and I am very good at it. When I become town, I get lynched first day or first night most of the time. I went to MafiaScum to hopefully improve my "mad scumhunting skillz".
I don't know yet, but at least I have to do something. Nobody is going to defend me except myself. I know I am a mislynch, so that's the best way I can help -- prevent that.What can the town do with your self-protect posts if you turn up town?Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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I also find the statement a bit odd. He lays out some of my "scummy actions" then he says something that sounds like a quick washing of hands in case I get lynched, laying an excuse to say "OMG LOL I told you "I wasn't totally sure he was the right lynch!"". The way the post was made was totally contradictory, if not ironic.Doc wrote:
What purpose does it serve to be even talking about a lynch? No-one mentioned him being the right lynch, therefore your comment that he may not be is suspect because you had no reason to say it. Unless, of course, you were trying to subconsciously plant the thought that people should be thinking about who to lynch right about... now.pops wrote:Alright, now for the other side of the coin. While i do think there are definitely some real reasons to be suspicious of Tenchi, I'm not totally sure he's the right lynch.
Also, why are you pre-emptively defending your previous action to get a rise out of Tenchi? Your whole post feels contrived and cautious to me, while your previous actions didn't imply that you were intending to be cautious.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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- Joined: November 19, 2008
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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- Posts: 1438
- Joined: November 19, 2008
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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Look, I'm gonna do you guys a favor. I'm just gonna STFU and let you guys decide whether to lynch me or not. I will enjoy my day rather than overthinking things again and just making a huge mess.
Confirm Vote: SovelissYes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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OK CAN YOIU GUYS PLEASE GET OVER THE HP THING ALREADY!???!!!???
I can see Soveliss/Pops/Peter as scum. Who's paired with who I do not know. WHY? Because they keep bringing back the conversation to my vote to HP to which it is highly irrelevant.
TIMELINE:
1. I VOTED HP FOR
A. Not being present in the thread.
B. Having no other reason to vote for other people. (This usally happens at start game right?)
2. I DIDNT CHANGE MY VOTE. "PARKED ON HP" because
A. I DONT HAVE ANY OTHER SUSPECTS
B. SINCE I WANTED HP TO SAY SOMETHING/REACT BECAUSE HE DIDNT REACT TO MY CHALLENGE OF BEING MORE VISIBLE ON THE THREAD.
C. Yes I misread the timeline, but dropping my vote won't do anything helpful. I'd rather do something with my vote, so keep it there.
3. I CHANGED IT TO SOVELISS
A. HP is obviously absent
B. OK fine he needs a life?
C. Soveliss jumped on my bandwagon
D Soveliss is obviously selectively reading the thread?
E. Soveliss seems well informed on my case, but not on the issue "why would scum/town would need to know about the Modus Operandi"
Everything I've said in my previous posts. Please stop making me do summaries. Argh. Now can we stop using my vote on HP as an excuse to lynch me?
NEXT THING:
Pops made a comment on me being a mason. I feel its like scum group A sending a message to scum group B. For what purpose, I don't know. But I feel that it's VERY NOT TOWNIE to expose who is mason and who isn't.
Next, using Peter's weak argument of me using IF instead of WHEN is so scummy to me. Attack my actions, not parsing every single word I say.
Huge FoS: PopsYes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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I thought I dealt with this already? That's why I said "(Well unless he posts something, or something else comes up, I'm keeping my vote on him) "Peter? wrote:
What? You are not being brought up for asking questions, you are being brought up (Quite validly) on being impatient. One post per day is a reasonable amount, but for a lot of people any more is ludicrous, and can't be expected. You also have to make exceptions for lapses, as some people are just too busy at certain points in the game to post. Mafia games can go for months, and you cannot expect anyone to go for that long with access to a computer every single day.Tenchi wrote:Well I apologize if I thought that timelines in Mafiascum are faster than they really were.
(Well unless he posts something, or something else comes up, I'm keeping my vote on him)
So yeah, vote me for asking legitimate questions and trying to keep my mouth shut when I have nothing useful to say because it has been already said by someone. I talk too much in most of my games, when in fact I actually try to be helpful which ends up with me being lynched or first killed LOL
READ THE THREAD
WHY...?Tenchi wrote:
YES.popsofctown wrote:You admit that your vote is a mistake based on your misperception of Mafiascum timelines.
Yet you are keeping it?
unvote
vote: tenchi
PARAPHRASING: The initial case was whether HP was more townie or more scummy by asking that question. Now, BH's argument was HP is more townie for asking the question in the thread because he thinks scum would ask via PM (being more cautious). Given that HP is a seasoned player, HP could be aware of that fact hence using it as WIFOM.
Could you please explain what this means? I understand the argument, I brought it up myself, I just don't see what your point is. You pretty much said it again told us to look at how well something is working. I may have just misunderstood, but why repeat something without giving some form of opinion on it?Tenchi wrote:Now for the argument of BH that scum would be more cautious and would ask via PM instead of posting is WIFOM, especially that it was said that HP was a seasoned player (according to BH that is). Look how good it's working.
Good question. I wanted to put pressure on HP to participate more on the thread. That was my original goal.
Why do you constantly try to fly under the radar? A vote should be cast to put weight behind your arguments, get scum lynched and generally show where your suspicions lie. If you have no suspicion of hp, or anyone else for that matter, then why not just unvote without revoting?Tenchi wrote:if I took my vote off him, then people would ask me why, and I really have no reason to unvote him since I see no other suspicious behavior, only certain associations.
My power is to use my vote right? There are other ways to use it besides lynching so yeah, there.
I'll get better as we go along. Hopefully.
Appeals to emotion are terrible play regardless of your alignment. Please refrain from ever using them again.Tenchi wrote:I'm obviously somebody who can't keep his mouth shut making me an easy lynch.Ever.
That's why I'm here!
How is this a favour? If you're not here then if you are lynched eventually, then we can't get any information from your lynch.Tenchi wrote:Look, I'm gonna do you guys a favor. I'm just gonna STFU and let you guys decide whether to lynch me or not. I will enjoy my day rather than overthinking things again and just making a huge mess.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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Please don't cite older games. Irrelevant (even if it is to my defense supposedly). KTHXBYE.blueheaven wrote: I still don't like how we are pushing for a lynch based on tenchi's voting pattern. In my last game, there is one newbie who weveryone thought was extremely scummy, somewhat same playstyle as tenchi but he turned up town. Feel free to go to that game and look. I have only one other game before and it has ended already.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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IS THIS BETTER?
EBWOP:
Pops made a comment on me beingNOTa mason. I feel its like scum group A sending a message to scum group B. For what purpose, I don't know. But I feel that it's VERY NOT TOWNIE to expose who is mason and who isn't.
Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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Some notes and answers because I'm tired of quoting too many things:
+ I will lay off the CAPS LOCK. But I will use it once in a while. It's in my DNA.
+ REGARDING PETER: He made a similar mistake Soveliss did -- he was updated on my case but was not updated on other issues this time on the Mod's response. Although I still feel Soveliss made a graver mistake by missing 2-3 posts regarding why town/scum would want to know why a reveal in MO would be advantageous or not.
+ MORE REGARDING PETER: He posted this huge case against me when I said I was going to STFU. Could be coincidence or could be scum hoping I'd be absent so that no one would defend me.
+ REGARDING POPS: He's ready to leave his "masonism" "up in the air" but is ready to speculate on mine.
+ REGARDING ZAZIER's QUESTION ON POST 116: SEE TIMELINE HERE. I saw no other suspicious behavior except from HP missing from the thread AT THAT MOMENT. Then Soveliss came along...
+ REGARDING IF/WHEN: It was confusing I admit. I mean that if their suspicions was hinged on me being townie, then yes my lynch would be ok. But if you guys think I'm scum and you have no other leads aside from thatif I turn up scumthen that would be useless. But since I'm town I shouldn't have used the word IF. I just creates more confusion on my alignment. So it was a stupid mistake/assumption on my part.
+ REGARDING LYNCHING ON MY BIRTHDAY: I was actually having fun in my posts for the first time in this game.
+ REGARDING POST 124: You need to let me have a life on my birthday. :-p And I did! Regardless, I was still back to write some good stuff later that day.
+ REGARDING BUDJA: I wish he'd share more of his suspicions more. If he wants us to look at other players, then he should have seen/supported cases on other players by now.
+ DOC ON HP BEING SEASONED: Point made. I'd rather not go there as HP's post is just full of circular logic. Not to mention we have more interesting discussions now.
+ QUESTION FOR DOC: Why is a playstyle argument relevant? What do you mean by that?
+ REGARDING USING METAS: It is against my better judgement. There is a lot more going on a single thread with lots of information. I'd rather rely on that than using cases that look similar but involve different people/playstyles and personalities. (Or maybe it is just a bias on my part.) Not to mention mafia is originally played without metas, so I'd rather keep it that way. Unless metas are acceptable here in mafiascum culture, then go ahead and use it. But it's not going to have too much weight (if any at all) on my book.
+ FINALLY QUOTES:
Tenchi wrote:Look, I'm gonna do you guys a favor. I'm just gonna STFU and let you guys decide whether to lynch me or not. I will enjoy my day rather than overthinking things again and just making a huge mess.
Confirm Vote: Soveliss
And then:
For blowing out of proportion my messagepopsofctown wrote:unvote
Vote: Tenchi
....
All of his other actions are very scummy. "Can you not lynch me while i refuse to defend myself KTHXBYE". At this point, the only reason i can doubt that he's scum is that he seems like his daytalk friend would be able to coach him into better action than that.
...on taking a break from the game and having fun in my birthdayintobeing unhelpful by refusing to defend myself. I NEVER SAID I WILL STOP DEFENDING MYSELF. AND I NEVER DID.
+ ON POPS REMOVING HIS TUNNEL VISION: OMG FINALLY!Huge FoS still on POPSVote: Pops
(At this point I'm voting Pops or Soveliss.)Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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Soveliss soveliss soveliss
1. I NEVER REFUSED TO DEFEND MYSELF. This thread is peppered with me defending me.
2. Me shutting up means A. I'm taking a break and B. Actually not overposting in the thread by repeating the same explanation over and over again. C. Letting you guys discuss among yourslves instead of me getting into the middle of everything.
3. LOL You "dug up" a quote, which I quoted and you should have obviously read. How ridiculous is that. Don't make us think you are doing work when in fact you aren't.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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FLAW:
Someone who is not posting is not defending themselves.
Tenchi said he would no longer be posting. [see above quote]<--- Is this really what I meant? Or is this what you want to see? What did I actually do Pops? And what was my explanation for saying the quote?
Therefore, Tenchi said he would no longer be defending himself.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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I'm not new to the game. I'm just new to this board-only games. Most of these games are apparently more serious and very critical when it comes to every word I say. Most of the games on I have played on the other hand rely on quick instinct (lots of deadlines) and emotion (we roleplay, and it is generally accepted), sometimes even memory, since we don't usually have a huge transcript of what everybody is saying.
Also, my other games allow me to have private conversations with individuals, which is absent from this game -- another deviation from what I usually do. Individual conversations add a layer of information gathering for townies (and scum) since you get to ask who suspects who without exposing it to the whole crowd.
Also to note: I have never been successful as townie, only in smaller games when I was the cop. So, being exposed in a board only game, practically blind to everything else, while being attacked by different people, while having no second opinion on what I should say or do is new for me. What I'm missing from my old games now is a means to ask somebody I trust privately and get an opinion on how should I defend myself (which is the same reason why I really appreciated it when Budja said "defend yourself properly" to me, even if he laid an FoS on me.)Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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+ REGARDING 167: That's why I used Spoiler tags. The whole spolered thing is irrelvant but I feel like sharing. Or maybe I should have spoilered more stuff. But all I wanted to say that I know Mafia but come from a different background.
+ REGARDING PHRASING MYSELF BADLY: I have on numerous ocassions and I feel stupid for them. But I have to explain and say that I meant something else, and I have to get the real meaning of what I said across (not some ill percieved definition of what my post sounds like, especially if I feel scum is manipulating the words I say.)
+ REGARDING BIRTHDAY LYNCH: It was several things A. Having the most votes in the game by the time my birthday started B. Added by Wall-Es vote on me C. Me finally trying to just relax by inserting the fact that its my birthday. D. I actually got to be myself for a bit, I roleplayed (although Wall-E was a bit hard to hug... he had this huge... metallic... arm.)! All in all it was all fun. I just would find it ironic if it happened. Not to mention I don't know what's going to happen in the next 24 hours. It could have happened!
+ ON ZAZIER REQUESTING MY 3 SUSPECTS: I have mentioned my three suspects in various points of the thread, and most of them prettty clearly why:
1. Pops
1. Soveliss (yes both of them are at number 1)
3. Peter (although I don't have a strong case because most of the stuff I have on him could be coincidence or human error)
Here's a summary on some of my other more current suspicions:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 71#1377271
Zazier: Please read the stuff I post carefully. THX!
Also Zazie (our IC in my other game! ) or anyone: Is there a way to search for all the posts of a specific person in a specific thread? Right now I can search for a specific person's post in a specific forum.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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I had a reply but realized in part that I was answering for Soveliss so I will post it later.
SUMMARY: Drop the "who is mason" talk. But discuss who is speculating masonry and why it is bad at this point in time.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Doc! Can you clarify this quickly for me? I asked about this in my other post.Doc wrote:
Note blueheaven's defense of Tenchi based on a playstyle argument.blueheaven wrote:Pops, in what way does tenchi implies that he is not mason? And i doubt tenchi's if and when statement shouldn't be a case by itself.
I still don't like how we are pushing for a lynch based on tenchi's voting pattern. In my last game, there is one newbie who weveryone thought was extremely scummy, somewhat same playstyle as tenchi but he turned up town. Feel free to go to that game and look. I have only one other game before and it has ended already.
And wall-e, whats the reason for your vote on tenchi, first just to see what it does, and then the confirm vote?Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Speculation gives clues for both Town and Anti-Town. I think for the wolf/mafia side to win, the idea of when to kill the best mason suspects vs killing their mafia suspects vs killing the best vanillas would help them tremendously in setting up their endgame.hp [leaves] wrote:sekinj wrote: Techni, why is it bad to speculate masonry at the time being?
By withholding this bit of information until endgame, we actually try to give less clues for scum in making their strategies. Possibly confusing them in the process, hopefully keeping both masons alive, which in the end makes the endgame for town easier.
We speculate masons, but we do that later. (Actually, the masons might just claim come endgame then maybe they pick between two people. Who knows what could happen?)
@Pops: "You said you would "STFU". That is what you said you would do. That sounded to me to be "not posting". If everyone else in this thread will tell me that "STFU" does not mean "not posting", then I will self-vote. Seriously. It's not what i wanted to see. It's there in plain language. "
I know it's not what you wanted to see but you forgot to underline and address one of my other questions. What did I DO Pops in the long run?
I'll react to some other posts tomorrow.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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What Pops said.Wall-E wrote: If that's all you've got on pops you're stretching way too much for my taste.
(I still owe you guys one big post. Haven't read page 8 too much yet )
You make a point here.popsofctown wrote:@Peter- ...
Also, why don't you tell us what your alt is? Revealing an alt only makes a player more readable, am i correct? So if you are town, we'll be able to tell better that you are town, if you are scum, we'll be able to tell better you are scum.. right? So as a townie who wants to win, wouldn't you be happy to share? As far as i can see, refusing to tell us only plays towards one win condition...
However, I have to think of reasons why town would otherwise do so:
1. To reuse some town gambits he has used before.
2. To mask the possibility of having some role.
Sorry but I just feel that using metas should not be done. If you want to incriminate Peter, press him on the issues we have on this thread -- he has not reacted much on the issues recently, or have posted anything that discusses other issues (other than my case or HP's initial post) , or add new issues that he may have noticed.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Why would you bank on ME not being familiar with some logic mumbo jumbo just to support your argument? We're you expecting something else (READ: Praying I was dumber?)?popsofctown wrote:
I thought Tenchi might actually not be familiar with it, so i wanted to make it clear that there is no point in debating the third statement.K man wrote:
Hey look, appeal to authority. Why do you feel the need to reinforce otherwise perfectly valid logic by slapping on a big name?pops wrote:(the third statement is the Law of Syllogism itself, that is proven by Socrates)
...
REMINDER TO SELF: Wall-E Said discussed M Word, despite it being clear on what to do with that kind of discussion.FoS: Wall-E.
BIGGER REMINDER ABOUT POPS:
Sneaky scum.popsofctown wrote:
Yeah, I'm concerned maybe he's village idiot town. It's a possibility, not a prediction. But i think mitigating that risk is:ZazieR wrote: When looking through your posts, I also came across the part about Tenchi not being a mason. It seems more like a 'if he's town, it doesn't matter if he's lynched as he's not a mason' comment. This combined with this:
Gives me the impression that you think he'll turn up town.Pops wrote:I'm just concerned that maybe I'm hunting village idiots and not scum.B. If we left him alive as town, i think he'd be hard to read the whole game, because he's so newbie.A. he's probably not a ... power role of any... sort
(That's just my first good pass on Page 8. I'll post more notes some other time. I'm getting really busy)Yes. That same Tenchi.
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I didn't need YOU to say it. It was pretty obvious on Page 6-7 that doing so is NOT helpful, yet you still did it.Wall-E wrote:Tenchi: Where did I discuss M word after saying I'd drop it?
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 82#1376082
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 88#1376788
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 83#1376983
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 26#1378226
Pops was persecuted for doing it once, why do it again?
(I even skipped some posts which quoted the information on those posts)
Either you selectively read, forgot, or one sneaky scum.Bigger FoS: Wall-Efor trying to weasel your way out of it.
You did it. Admit that you did something wrong and possibly scummy. And admit it that it does deserve suspicion at least.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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I know I'm not the smartest person here Wall-E but that doesn't mean you have to dismiss everything I say, especially if it is against you. Ignore it if you will, but I'm hope some other people get what I mean.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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I have been busy these past few days. My point was this: "Either you selectively read, forgot, or one sneaky scum."Tenchi wrote:
I didn't need YOU to say it. It was pretty obvious on Page 6-7 that doing so is NOT helpful, yet you still did it.Wall-E wrote:Tenchi: Where did I discuss M word after saying I'd drop it?
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 82#1376082
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 88#1376788
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 83#1376983
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 26#1378226
Pops was persecuted for doing it once, why do it again?
(I even skipped some posts which quoted the information on those posts)
Either you selectively read, forgot, or one sneaky scum.Bigger FoS: Wall-Efor trying to weasel your way out of it.
You did it. Admit that you did something wrong and possibly scummy. And admit it that it does deserve suspicion at least.
I outlined four posts in which we discussed that discussing or speculating who is mason at this point in time is not helpful. Those were written in pages 6-7, and I skipped over some other posts who quoted those posts. You speculated about Pops being mason at page 8.
This means that you, as one of the active players couldn't and shouldn't have missed the point of speculating mason thingies is bad for town.
So again, "Either you selectively read, forgot, or one sneaky scum."Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Two things:
1.popsofctown wrote:Skip argument ad hominem Doc. True or false, it helps the town if we keep this game long and continue examining all players?What's ad hominem?An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. The process of proving or disproving the claim is thereby subverted, and the argumentum ad hominem works to change the subject. - Wikipedia
2. Next, I don't get Pops' question. I mean it has an obvious answer, so why ask it?
Oh yeah another thing, if Pops feels or is subdued by the fact that he seems to be lynched, why can't you (pops) give a list of suspicions now considering you are active and have been reading most of these posts? If he was town trying to change our mind, he needs the time to let the town decide properly whether to finally lynch him vs the cases he is putting up, instead of leaving it to the last minute (i.e. "wait until the deadline"). If you are doing it Pops, give your suspicions now (which will probably include me).popsofctown wrote:It looks likely i'll be the days lynch, so i think i'll do the best i can and try to flag some scum before i go down. Please, hopefully, wait until the deadline or close so i can reread and analyze as much as i can, try to find some suspicious people. Remember folks, even if i were 100% scum, there wouldstillbe benefit to looking around town before making the lynch, because we can flag people that are suspicious so opposing scum factions can nightkill eachother.
Also, if you turn up scum, your final suspicions will be full of WIFOM. And will probably include cr*p that will protect your partner. I'm wary of that.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Is this question directed at me? I answered HP's question AFAIK.ZazieR wrote:
Why is it good to speculate masonry?hp wrote:Techni, why is it bad to speculate masonry at the time being?
I also want to hear what a Budja replacement will say.(MOD: Can we push the deadline back a bit because of the recent replacements?)
Pops: can you state your main arguments why I should be lynched instead? (Just to remind everyone.)
HP: Seriously, who are you voting for and why?
Blueheaven: Doc prodded you and I will too. You need to commit to a vote and state your reasons for doing so. While your at it, I think you owe us your three most suspicious players.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Four of you can jump on me right now but I'm not giving up.
Let me address your points Wall-E:
"There is nothing to show he wasn't simply reading the thread for a
decently WIFOM-rich attack to piggyback on."
Nope. I was actually the first to bring up the fact he was discussing who was mason or not. The additional points people brought up (like he jumped on vote bandwagons) just added reason to why others voted for him. AFAIK I was one of the first few people who voted for him (although it was initially born out of OMGUS). Not to mention his failure to actually provide alternative suspects if he is town(which was the thing I also noticed). He did provide Budja as one and like many others, I'm still waiting for what a Budja replacement will say.
REGARDING TARGETING HP: I didn't. I just parked my vote to pressure him to contribute to the thread.
"Too self-assured. Why park your vote on someone and NOT ask a question when you do? Better yet, ask a question FIRST, gauge the reaction, THEN vote if you still feel sure. "
Good question. Honestly, I don't know what to ask. I just wanted him to participate more since all that initial discussion came from his question.
"This kind of self-meta is never acceptable in my book. You're too scummy to be scum now? I think not. "
Good point, but that's what I'm thinking. I'm looking scummy in all three of my games right now and I can't seem to figure out how to deal with this self-scumminess. :-p I'll learn.
"* It's not scummy to attack someone, regardless of if they've claimed they'll be STFUing or not. "
My concern was the fact that Peter, after a LOOOOOOONG absence makes this huge post against me when I "claimed" I will be away. I personally find the timing suspicious. But since you are thinking I'm scum, then that really doesn't matter to you.
"This was the initial reason I unvoted and stopped pursuing Tenchi right here. It's still a good point, I think, but in light of pops' flip I'm downgrading the significance. Even scum can make pro-town points."
That's unfair. It's like saying "Let's all nullify Tenchi's good points because he's scum.". I don't even see anything else that makes me scum aside from the fact that I voted for Pops.
"This bit is a very verbose way of continuing meta discussion (or meta-meta discussion, if that's not redundant) while simultaneously denouncing meta."
I just said an opinion about an issue in the thread. Many people don't know me where I stand regarding that issue and apparently many people also don't share my POV on that issue. I feel there was a need for me to state my case on why I decide to hold that POV. Again, I feel its unfair for you to attack me because I shared an opinion on what I consider as part of a valid case.
Vote: Wall-E
I think your points are out of hand.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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I think it would be stupid for one of the masons to come out right now, especially if Doc suspected you.Wall-E wrote:
I'm supremely upset that Doc didn't share his thoughts on me BEFORE
night fell, given that he was not an investigator (the only reason I can see
for witholding the info: Possibly trying to confirm my role before dropping
some kind of bomb on me), so double boner points for that. Luckily we
have a backup mason who is now a member of that mason team, so the
information is (hopefully) still in the game, but it's hardly worth a claim
for the info to become available today. Suffice to say I will ask any
claimed mason for this information.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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I hope we don't become deadlined because of lack of activity. I hope we get replacements before we get a new deadline.
Now Wall-E:
"You jumped onboard the HP wagon for an arguably weaker reason. "
Nope. There's no "wagon" on him. I was actually the only second one to vote for him after a VERY LONG DISCUSSION.
There were two sides to the discussion you quoted: one thinks his question was scummy, the other thinks his question was pro-town. It was generally concluded that it was a null-tell. I was voting him for not a weaker reason, but foranother one-- his absence during the discussion of his own words.It's like he's letting townies munch over some null-tell statement hoping that one of the townies slip up. He should've got in there and clarified what he meant and gave his opinion instead of just watching us go at it.I forgot he's Townie. But that's what I thought when I gave him my vote.
"Pre-empting Peter?'s case with, "I'm going to STFU now" doesn't erase or invalidate his points in ANY WAY."
It doesn't. That's why I addressed his points already in this page.
Now, his timing and weak suspicion of me gives me reason to vote for him.
"I'm 60% sure you're scum, Tenchi, and that's way more than enough for me to keep my vote on you."
I'll take it. I've made a couple of unclear statements and I know I have to answer to them. However, you should try to not only bank your arguments on the assumption that I am scum. But I guess, that's where the 40% is, right? :\
My gut tells me toUNVOTE.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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EBWOP: Now, his (Peter?'s) timing and weak suspicion of me gives me reason to SUSPECT him.
Now that I think about it more, that series of events tells me something...
Vote: Peter?
I reserve the right to hold my reason until Peter posts and actually contributes some more, or remove it if something else comes up. (Think of this as a public sticky note)Yes. That same Tenchi.
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I wish you said it this clear before.ZazieR wrote:
He FoSed Tenchi. He also admitted that Tenchi was suspicious to him. If that's the case, then why would you call his actions errors? It gives me the impression that he knows Tenchi's allignment. And I don't see why it's funny.zazie wrote:-His comments about 'Tenchi making errors all over the place'.
It's something I want to change in the New Year.ZazieR wrote: Is it me, or does Tenchi like voting players who make a case against him?
(Same thing I felt, hence I unvoted Wall-E. But I still think there's something up with Peter. I want him/his replacement to post their reactions to what has happened so far. Same with Budja.)Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Coug, I suggest you rethink your reasons for voting Wall-E.
Uhm... I don't understand how this is the same asSCoug wrote: Not seeing the case on somebody ≠ denying the case's existence either.
Please clarify.Tenchi, not seeing the case on somebody ≠ defending that person per se.
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SCoug's first question above though is valid (although I could think of a reason why he did it.). Wall-E, please answer.
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I don't :\ But he says he's living the highschool life that I was giving him a free pass on that. But there shouldn't be any school right now right?Zazie wrote: Am I the only one who 'likes' Seraphim's contribution so far?Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Wall-E tried to do something that was not blatantly stating that Pops was a bad lynch (although not as well presented as his campaign on mine :\).
This post was somewhere with Pops at L-2/3 before he said the "verbotem" statement. (Which has me thinking he was resolved to a Pops lynch at that time and the only way to save Pops was to claim mason on behalf of him, which Wall-E doesn't want to get in trouble with)
Wall-E wrote:My best lead right now is Budja. His call for a "cease-fire" without offering alternate targets still bothers me. I could be convinced to vote for pops or ZazieR if one of them does something scummy worth noting and can't explain it, so I'm waiting on further debate between those two before picking a more serious target.
The debate between them is healthy, but atm I'm getting a town read off pops and a lesser town read off Z.
I missed this question earlier: