Mini Normal 2291: Greentexts | Mafia Wins!

[Kowahbunga]

VOTE: dragoneater70

[Kowahbunga]

hi everyone

@herta - i suppose i can't get your alignment wrong this game.

[Kowahbunga]

VOTE: Kowabungah

If I had to choose any slots so far which are +AI for scum then I'd choose this one.

9 and 12 pinged me too, I think that's just paranoia though.

Help me with the +AI thing

[Kowahbunga]

VOTE: Kowabungah

If I had to choose any slots so far which are +AI for scum then I'd choose this one.

9 and 12 pinged me too, I think that's just paranoia though.

Help me with the +AI thing

On a less speculative note I've observed variations of "hey x, this is a reference to that game where you and I were both Town" are more likely to come from scum at the beginning of the game. I'm not exactly reading into it much yet though it might also matter that herta is IC. On a highly speculative note I imagined that you sounded a little downbeat in your first 2 posts, which makes me think you drew a scum PM. At this point in the game, while you are my first "serious" suspect, it's relatively easy for you to get me to flip my read on you just by performing some scum hunting.

Why bother having a scum read on me if you're going to tell me how to remove it?

[Kowahbunga]

Frog's posts to me are coming off as forced currently. However, I want to give them the benefit of the doubt because they've done a great job at ending RVS and I'm always okay with that.

[Kowahbunga]

i think you're reading too much into things

This is a scum mindset.

VOTE: Cephir

Frog's issues with my post could also be deemed "reading too much into things" but you agree enough with him to vote me for the same reason. Yet you want to tell someone else they're reading too much into things? This is made even more interesting that you find it okay to agree with Frog's reach but don't like someone that you claim is reaching, reaching against Frog.

[Kowahbunga]

-crescent's post delves multiple layers deep into a post that's literally just a joke
-frog explicitly says he's not reading that much into it,

and i'm not either

- just happy with that spot for my vote on page 2, although this reaction certainly doesn't make me feel worse about it

You're not reading that much into it, but enough to put a vote for it? This is too careless to be a town POV.

[Kowahbunga]

@bianco I don't think it's disingenuous, he is new and probably doesn't know that

I know that I feel your posts are not a town POV. At this stage of the game that will be all I have to play with.

I played mafia off and on starting in 2008. I've played consistently since 2014. There's nothing new about me other than this account or my way of playing.

[Kowahbunga]

@bianco I don't think it's disingenuous, he is new and probably doesn't know that

I know that I feel your posts are not a town POV. At this stage of the game that will be all I have to play with.

I played mafia off and on starting in 2008. I've played consistently since 2014. There's nothing new about me other than this account or my way of playing.

and you've never seen someone throw a vote around on minimal basis on page 2?????

My issue is not with the vote being minimal or not. My issue is that you used the same reason to vote for me as you used to discredit someone else's opinion.

You told that someone they're "reading too much into something" which is 100% a scum POV thing to say because any one that is town here should be reading everything with a fine tooth comb. Whether it was on page 2 or 200 doesn't matter.

[Kowahbunga]

Good night, biancospino, and thank you for writing 111. I should have my questions up by tomorrow morning.

All I really said was post 27 townpinged me because it feels like something scum generally doesn't do early, but that feeling is diminished a bit if there's scum among people in the small affected radius.

I thought you were pretty clear, FWIW, that analysis was the main reason I Town leaned you. Have you been able to discern anything about Kowabunga or redFF's alignment?

I have effectively nothing to say about Red. His type annoys me, but I'm also used to it. I assumed he had a reason to vote Gera when he did, and... Apparently he didn't, which makes all 10 of his posts deliberately meaningless. He doesn't done anything AI to me yet and I already think getting a read on him is going to be painful.

There is some scum equity with Kow. I was alright with his response to you early in the game, because as stated earlier, I found it sounding more "annoyed" than scummy. Kow's countervote didn't bug me because it kind of felt like a he had a line of logic he was probing for a response on, but in re-reading it I'm confused. I at no point ever "reached" anything against FK, so I want to know where this idea came from.

The thing that nags at me here is the progression. Kow hasn't really done anything but respond to you and Cephir voting for him. I feel like the 4 posts following Cephir voting him (#45, #47, #59, and #63) are virtually identical, and he has essentially ignored everyone else in the game. It took a little bit to put how I feel into words, but his effort so far feels like it's some kind of mirage.

On a sidebar I have nothing to say about JV not being here. My only experience with JV was when they were a day 2 replacement in the first game I played on this site.

I never said you reached. Cephir said you were reading too much into things. Which I believe to be an anti-town statement to tell someone.

[Kowahbunga]

ooh I have some catching up to do. I'm in my slower part of work so I'll start making my way through what I've missed.

[Kowahbunga]

Can you recognize a remote possibility that I find it protown to suggest that a possibly town aligned player not get too invested in something I don't think is alignment indicative

No, sorry, I can't. It's never protown to ignore something or look into something less.

This is a game of information at it's very core. Scum start with more information, town's goal is to surpass the amount of information scum have. It should be up to the individual town person to decide when information is no longer useful. It will forever be scummy to me if anyone says "don't read too much into that".

[Kowahbunga]

@

Kowahbunga

I meant to ask you a question earlier though I probably forgot. I was wondering if you think it's fair for me to draw analogies between your Andante read in the Mini Normal you just completed and your Cephrir read in this one?

While I can't stop you from comparing games, I personally don't. I think there's a way to put me in the same situation for the posts and reads I made from one game to the next. My reactions in this game will inherently be different than my reactions in a previous game because they're two completely different games. I will see different things from game to game and respond in different ways. I don't expect to ever play two games the same and I go into each game imagining the same of everyone else. I will never use a previous game of someone's to make a decision in this game about them. I can understand why people rely on it more in D1 and it's a common topic. I just think it's poor logic though.

[Kowahbunga]

I'm not loving 129.

Too much certainty for my tastes. Could be play style tho.

This tiny post actually pushes me more to town!Cephir because I like the mindset and it's also something I look for.

[Kowahbunga]

Herta, you going to do anything with your town clear, or just happy to have narrowed the possible scum down a bit?

[Kowahbunga]

I believe Crescent should have voted me by now, the excessive analyzation and a delay to vote comes off as

Mafia

. Their posts tend to indicate that they know I'm not actually

Mafia

(as they are

Mafia

)

Something like this always pings me a bit. Because I know we're playing a game on "mafia" scum - and generally the opposing team to town is "mafia" but Mod never mentioned "mafia" in their opening posts. They referred to the opposing faction as "scum".

The first person to mention "mafia" this game? Well that was me, but in reference to the name of the game.

Others have also mentioned "mafia" in reference to the game.

Clone though, they have actually used the term "mafia" like there are mafia in the game. Likelihood of that being the case? I assume pretty good. But this is something that sticks out to me.

[Kowahbunga]

I believe Crescent should have voted me by now, the excessive analyzation and a delay to vote comes off as

Mafia

. Their posts tend to indicate that they know I'm not actually

Mafia

(as they are

Mafia

)

Something like this always pings me a bit. Because I know we're playing a game on "mafia" scum - and generally the opposing team to town is "mafia" but Mod never mentioned "mafia" in their opening posts. They referred to the opposing faction as "scum".

The first person to mention "mafia" this game? Well that was me, but in reference to the name of the game.

Others have also mentioned "mafia" in reference to the game.

Clone though, they have actually used the term "mafia" like there are mafia in the game. Likelihood of that being the case? I assume pretty good. But this is something that sticks out to me.

Also, it's not like they've been doing this the whole game. They are mostly referring to scum as scum. Except in this long post.

[Kowahbunga]

@BBT

Not important to the game.

I'm sat here wearing a red hoodie that I bet you would just love.

[Kowahbunga]

VC 1.5
Clone (2): BlueBloodedToffee, redFF, geraintm
Cephrir (1): Kowahbunga
Elements (1): Cephrir
Kowahbunga (1): biancospino
Crescent (1): Elements
JacksonVirgo (1): Frogsterking
Not voting (5): nepenthe, JacksonVirgo, Herta, Crescent, Clone
Day 1 will end in (expired on 2023-02-26 21:03:00)

Is this VC correct?

[Kowahbunga]

Clone, where do you feel like Frog was setting up to vote you?

Kowah, tell me more!!

I'm guessing based on your name and location you're an Everton supporter?

[Kowahbunga]

It shows 3 people on Clone but Clone having only two votes, but I believe it is correct otherwise.

Well would probably be worth a discussion if one of those three can't have their vote counted or something.

[Kowahbunga]

Oh and to further the point about #177 and #178, perspective slips don't really exist when it comes to nouns and pronouns. I once saw a town throw a game at lylo because someone accidentally referred to the scum team as "we" and was voted off strictly for that.

Couldn't care less that there's four interchangeable terms for not-town and he decided to use the one that people generally haven't been using this game so far.

It actually kind of bugs me a bit that FK didn't call this out because I believe he's a player that should know how meaningless the argument was.

It just pings me. Cool with your input on it and happy if it doesn't ping others. Just sticks out to me because subconscious slips are a thing. They've happened before, they'll happen again. Just because you can mention one game where it was wrong to follow this logic, doesn't mean all games and situations will always be just like that.

Your last bit means more to me than your opinion on my opinions though. You thinking Frog is off for not calling out something you think he should. Do you think Frog is trying to buddy me then?

[Kowahbunga]

I believe Crescent should have voted me by now, the excessive analyzation and a delay to vote comes off as

Mafia

. Their posts tend to indicate that they know I'm not actually

Mafia

(as they are

Mafia

)

Something like this always pings me a bit. Because I know we're playing a game on "mafia" scum - and generally the opposing team to town is "mafia" but Mod never mentioned "mafia" in their opening posts. They referred to the opposing faction as "scum".

The first person to mention "mafia" this game? Well that was me, but in reference to the name of the game.

Others have also mentioned "mafia" in reference to the game.

Clone though, they have actually used the term "mafia" like there are mafia in the game. Likelihood of that being the case? I assume pretty good. But this is something that sticks out to me.

Lmfao WHAT is this post

Call it scum or call it town or just sit there and wait for everyone else to do it for you I guess?

[Kowahbunga]

i'd like to send Element to trial. I want them to give their analisis on the game so far and provide a few reads. They've said pap multiple times and have provided nothing else of value.

Pap

What is pap?

[Kowahbunga]

i think you're reading too much into things

This is a scum mindset.

VOTE: Cephir

Frog's issues with my post could also be deemed "reading too much into things" but you agree enough with him to vote me for the same reason. Yet you want to tell someone else they're reading too much into things? This is made even more interesting that you find it okay to agree with Frog's reach but don't like someone that you claim is reaching, reaching against Frog.

i don't really get the focus on kow's vote tbh...

also don't think andante's response to it was scum indicative rather than just andante indicative though

Regarding Kow, my thoughts...

1. Why does town need to plan what they are going to do for RVS in the pregame?

2.

That’s entirely fair
I just had the idea in pregame so I figured I’d vocalize it immediately.

VOTE: andante

hi everyone

Yeah, actually, what specifically makes you park your rvs vote on me... could pick gamer, haschel, gamma, or penguin
yet you opted to join the vote on me. Please share why

I decided pre-game I would vote the first person voted, I'm not sorry it was you.

I think the justification of his RVS vote being "i decided pre-game" could have easily just been stolen from Gamma saying that she decided pregame to ask everyone to post a reads list. sort of "i'm getting pushed on my RVS vote, how do I explain it, i'll just say what Gamma said..."This is a bit of a reach but it did seem weird to me and worth pointing out.

Does this mean you also scum read Gamma for planning pregame or just me for doing it?

i feel like there are an immense amount of similarities between Kow's play in either game. I didn't bother to write them up earlier. I was curious if I could find anything now or I just imagined it, so I went back and within a few seconds I saw the above quote from the other game. You can see an example of just one way Kow is being consistent in the methods that he scum hunts from the above. I associate this same tell, which Kow is pointing out in two different games, with a user here named FrozenAngel. It's a legitimate way of scumhunting. If Kow is scum then they're doing a better job replicating Town than they need to IMO.

I'm not completely sold on Kow being Town, I have an entire tinfoil team solve which includes Kow, it's just my tinfoil team solve though. If there is evidence in the thread that I got tricked or emotionally manipulated by Kow then that's one thing. Barring that, my intuition is that Kow is Town, and I trust my intuition...to an extent.

The key difference I saw immediately was Kow felt more proactive that game instead of just snapping at specific people who were pressuring him early. He's also felt less fluid in this game. As I stated earlier, he made four consecutive posts that are effectively identical, all addressed to the same person, while other people were posting. I read his first 25 or so posts of that game and it doesn't feel similar like you're making it out to be. It doesn't mean he has to be scum, but I did want you to provide your reasoning.

I really think people should play this game rather than last game. I know you're only answering the questions being asked of you, and this is also directed at Frog.

It's hard enough for people to answer for their posts and positions in THIS game, to have to think back to the last game of why I made this decision or acted this way, I'm past it. I can't answer for it. I don't remember. Everything is always so "how i feel in the moment" - I have a general idea of what I'm looking for (ie stupid minute details that people always want to disregard but i want to latch on to because i have this feeling i'll catch someone slipping every time i read a post) but what I can't control is how confident I feel from one game or the next.

Like I feel I was too timid last game looking back at it but it was more just a lack of confidence and a desire not to be fooled that lead me to being much more cautious with posting.

After last game, and being right about Andante and I'd say I was ready for someone to question Firebringer and unfortunately that person should have been me. So I'm feeling like I caught 2 of the 3 and just didn't force my hand enough.

So this game I'm playing with a confidence I didn't have the previous game. So it's no wonder people may see it and think I'm playing different. The point is though, people worrying about it is just going to confuse themselves moving forward in this game.

So let's all just try to be here. Because this is the game we need to solve.

[Kowahbunga]

Oh and to further the point about #177 and #178, perspective slips don't really exist when it comes to nouns and pronouns. I once saw a town throw a game at lylo because someone accidentally referred to the scum team as "we" and was voted off strictly for that.

Couldn't care less that there's four interchangeable terms for not-town and he decided to use the one that people generally haven't been using this game so far.

It actually kind of bugs me a bit that FK didn't call this out because I believe he's a player that should know how meaningless the argument was.

It just pings me. Cool with your input on it and happy if it doesn't ping others. Just sticks out to me because subconscious slips are a thing. They've happened before, they'll happen again. Just because you can mention one game where it was wrong to follow this logic, doesn't mean all games and situations will always be just like that.

Your last bit means more to me than your opinion on my opinions though. You thinking Frog is off for not calling out something you think he should. Do you think Frog is trying to buddy me then?

FYI since this is a Normal game it's almost 100% guaranteed the scum are called mafia

Where I normally play is a sports forum that has a group of about 20 people that rotate in and out and a few who like to mod and they just do crazy stuff. So I'm a bit more programmed to notice something like what the scum team is called or a vote not being counted. I didn't realize the rules were that strict and I always assumed that faction names are just flavour and scum could be called anything the mod wants them to be.

The reason I felt that way is that the mod specifically says "scum" in their opening post. Why wouldn't the mod say "mafia" if it's always mafia in Normal games?

[Kowahbunga]

231 to 234

I think from this exchange, if you said "hey one of these are scum and one of these are town" I would go frog scum ceph town.

My biggest issue right now is that Frog seems to have dove so much down my rabbit hole that it feels almost on purpose he left out the fact I Ceph voted me before I responded. Like he wanted Ceph to bring it up so he could create his doubt post.

UNVOTE:

I'm starting to doubt my read on Ceph. While I think the reason I voted them ("don't read/look too much into it" can't remember the exact terminology, but this is the gist) is definitely a scummy thing to say, when I look back at the response Ceph gave on it, like they never tried to defend what they said or anything. They attacked my logic on it instead. Also other posts since then have screamed town at me. So I'm off this wagon today.

[Kowahbunga]

I believe Crescent should have voted me by now, the excessive analyzation and a delay to vote comes off as

Mafia

. Their posts tend to indicate that they know I'm not actually

Mafia

(as they are

Mafia

)

Something like this always pings me a bit. Because I know we're playing a game on "mafia" scum - and generally the opposing team to town is "mafia" but Mod never mentioned "mafia" in their opening posts. They referred to the opposing faction as "scum".

The first person to mention "mafia" this game? Well that was me, but in reference to the name of the game.

Others have also mentioned "mafia" in reference to the game.

Clone though, they have actually used the term "mafia" like there are mafia in the game. Likelihood of that being the case? I assume pretty good. But this is something that sticks out to me.

Is this a real post or written by a bad ai?

100% real and 100% how I will read the game.

[Kowahbunga]

I feel like I got really stumped in this game all of a sudden.

I'm sorry, but it's D1 - if you're town how are you not stumped? We literally start the game stumped. Did you honestly feel like you had the whole game figured out?

[Kowahbunga]

In fact, idk if a scum!Kow would even invent such a '''slip''' in the first place, I don't really think a scum would see that word and think it's pingy enough to fruitfully latch onto it.
UNVOTE:
@Kow, do you agree with Crescent reading of clone's opening? In all cases, if your take wrt. the slip is genuine, you should be eyeng Clone, which would tie to that.

I'm not sure what WRT means - I feel like I've seen that before but it's not registering with me what it means and I can't find a guess with the context. And when you say "clone's opening" are you talking about their very first post, or the post that was huge and that i initially mentioned the mafia thing about?

[Kowahbunga]

Hopefully I'll be able to catch-up tomorrow evening
VOTE: clone

This post is bad.

100% found scum

It shows 3 people on Clone but Clone having only two votes, but I believe it is correct otherwise.

Well would probably be worth a discussion if one of those three can't have their vote counted or something.

This is definitely the most forced day 1 post I have ever seen.
100% sure I have found a player who is trying you hard.

100%

I don't even know how to respond to either of these. They're just words. With not content. Can you explain what's bad about Element's post? Can you explain what's forced about my post?

[Kowahbunga]

Wagons is the only way to play D1.

How do you look at wagons from D1 to find information?

[Kowahbunga]

my mafia brain is not functioning right now

Mafia brain?

Not town brain?

110% found scum here

I feel like I'm being trolled now.

[Kowahbunga]

my mafia brain is not functioning right now

Mafia brain?

Not town brain?

110% found scum here

You are voting for clone.

c'mon, 'tis was a joke, don't read too much into it.

But in seriousness, @geraintm, were your

others

100%'s also jokes or should they be read in good faith? Specifically 245, that you also bolded

I'm really being trolled now.

[Kowahbunga]

In fact, idk if a scum!Kow would even invent such a '''slip''' in the first place, I don't really think a scum would see that word and think it's pingy enough to fruitfully latch onto it.
UNVOTE:
@Kow, do you agree with Crescent reading of clone's opening? In all cases, if your take wrt. the slip is genuine, you should be eyeng Clone, which would tie to that.

I'm not sure what WRT means - I feel like I've seen that before but it's not registering with me what it means and I can't find a guess with the context. And when you say "clone's opening" are you talking about their very first post, or the post that was huge and that i initially mentioned the mafia thing about?

Yeah, "with respect to" as FK said.
Anyway, I meant the very first posts; the ones that Crescent did initially read on in 29

I'm a little confused then. Because it appears Crescent was talking about Clone's actual 1st and 2nd post, and my post regarding "mafia" is from their third post. I think Clone's initial 2nd post is nothing indicative of either alignment as it seemed more just jokingly responding to RVS and if anything Crescent trying to analyze those two posts comes across as wanting to say something to say something.

I would more scum read the third post Clone made (again the one with "mafia") more if anything just for the amount of "content" forced into it. Like it just seems like so much to have so many opinions on different people by post 127.

[Kowahbunga]

VOTE: geraint
Sure whatever

Uh this is a -1 vote already someone should probably be getting off

Why? Shouldn't the first step be for a claim from Geraint?

[Kowahbunga]

I'll claim intent to hammer if I don't like Geraint's claim.

[Kowahbunga]

Geraint, I'd like a role claim please.

[Kowahbunga]

Intent to hammer after I get off this phone call, take a shower, and get back to work.

[Kowahbunga]

All right then

VOTE: geraint

[Kowahbunga]

I will read and catch up in about 3-ish hours when work slows down for me.

[Kowahbunga]

First order of major business, we are eliminating between Kowhabunga (sp?) And Crescent toDay right?

I'm excited to see why!

[Kowahbunga]

Drew why do you think I was town leader or trying to be? I don't really find it in my nature to be a leader and don't think I posted with that kind of intent either. I mean, I hammered Geraint. That's not exactly leading?

Your entry to the game seems very "I'm here to lead" so are you scum reading yourself for that?

No one else wants to bring it up but Herta is still alive. Not suggesting they might not be town or anything. But seems like a decent conversation to have with everyone today. Why didn't scum NK the confirmed townie?

Not voting (4): nepenthe, JacksonVirgo, Herta, Crescent

What if Herta wasn't NK because all the scum somehow weren't on the wagon and they didn't want to bring attention to it? Even though Herta is obviously town, maybe they just felt like it would be too noticeable. Instead the killed someone on the middle of the wagon for another town player. So if scum were on the geraint wagon, I don't feel like they would want town flips from the wagon. Let's make this the conversation now. I want everyone's opinion.

[Kowahbunga]

He's basically playing exactly how he played in our last game. He is actively solving and seems genuinely interested in it. I think he believes what he argues and I don't think his intent in what he says is to persuade people into townreading him. Kowah is my strongest townread

Ok fair enough, have you played in a scum game with him?

Kow, have you been scum here in a game?

I have not had a scum game on here yet.

[Kowahbunga]

Kow is easy ml bait. Comfortable with my vote

Kow is easy ml bait. Comfortable with my vote

So you think Kow is just bad at mafia?

I didnt say that? He had good reads last time we played

After a bit of thought. I don't like these two posts from red. They make me feel weird.

[Kowahbunga]

Mostly. Kinda sad when I ISOed the previous person in my slot the word count was less then 200 words. I'd vote them if I was here for that shenaniganry. Luckily I know I'm town so I won't do that.

It's weird entering a game later for me,

so I hope I don't screw this up

. You seem null/town rn Drew from what I read so I'll take any reads from you into consideration

I find this phrasing to be odd. I haven't voted today yet, and this seems like a nice place to start.

VOTE: elsa

[Kowahbunga]

4 replacements and the mod just prodded 4 others. This is going to be a long game and not because of activity.

[Kowahbunga]

VOTE: Crescent

[Kowahbunga]

VOTE: Clone

Why are you voting Clone?

[Kowahbunga]

Is there like a naked vote post restriction in this game?

I am growing more fine over time with a BBT lim.

Like I'm beginning to wonder if this game would be better off with us only being able to post a vote and nothing else. There's about the same amount of content. Let's start lynching the people with the fewest posts in the game and see which three people start posting more than they were up to this point.

[Kowahbunga]

Is there like a naked vote post restriction in this game?

I am growing more fine over time with a BBT lim.

Like I'm beginning to wonder if this game would be better off with us only being able to post a vote and nothing else. There's about the same amount of content. Let's start lynching the people with the fewest posts in the game and see which three people start posting more than they were up to this point.

Remember, don't use the L-word.

Only problem with this logic is the IC would be elim'ed.

Oh my bad, I've been trying to break myself of that habit.

Also, we obviously wouldn't lim the IC. I just don't know what else to do or how else to start a conversation about anything.

[Kowahbunga]

VOTE: BBT

Let's see what happens.

[Kowahbunga]

VOTE: Marashu

I like this

Why?

[Kowahbunga]

Of the four slots that haven't been replaced, only three are even still alive at this point.

[Kowahbunga]

Oh wait I'm way off in my count, 6 haven't been replaced, 1 is ded.

[Kowahbunga]

Gonna do a readslist now, do you guys want townreads?

I'd gladly pay you Tuesday for any content you wish to offer today.

[Kowahbunga]

VC 2.5
BlueBloodedToffee (3): Marashu, Doctor Drew, Kowahbunga
Elsa Jay (1): Cephrir
Crescent (1): Clone
Doctor Drew (1): redFF
Clone (1): BlueBloodedToffee
Marashu (1): Klick
Not voting (3): Herta, Crescent, Elsa Jay
Day 2 will end in (expired on 2023-03-05 17:35:00). With 11 alive, it takes 6 to eliminate.

VOTE: Marashu

Why Marashu over Red? In your previous post you put red at the very bottom. To me, based on how your reads progressed down like they did, Red is your biggest scum read?

I think his two posts regarding me when responding to Drew were suspicious and it made me feel like he knows my alignment. I wanted to keep it quiet because maybe he is a town PR and figured it out that way. But then his most recent post asked Herta to tell him who to vote for, so if I was also cleared to him, why didn't I get asked the same question?

The last reason is a personal preference of mine where I feel one of the most likely places a scum hide on the wagon is putting someone L1. Which they did to Geraint.

VOTE: red

[Kowahbunga]

Marashu and redFF are both scumreads for me and Marashu already had a vote.

So I'm wrong that Red being last on your list doesn't make them more scum read than Marashu?

[Kowahbunga]

Yes, you're wrong.

Can you explain what it was about the VC that made you vote Marashu? Just because they already had a vote? Is that it?

[Kowahbunga]

Yes^

So if Red had a vote, you would have just voted them? Why didn't you want to start a wagon on Red?

[Kowahbunga]

Furtiveglance is town. Thanks for making that easy

Are you sure?

[Kowahbunga]

No, but that didn't look like the scum game I just played with him at all

So you're just going to use that previous game to read them in this game?

[Kowahbunga]

No, but that didn't look like the scum game I just played with him at all

Let's also hope he isn't a PR lol (he will get it)

Also, I can't avoid Furt, I think he is stalking me.

Kow, I don't really understand your push on Furt here.

Well to be honest, I think they're lying about the reads they have. Because that looks exactly like an order of town to scum and the bottom one would obviously be their most scumread player. But they ignored voting either of the bottom two, then just quoted a VC and put a vote on Marashu for what I also believe to be a bit of a BS reason. Nothing there makes sense that a town player would choose to join a wagon than create one. I would have had an easier time believing someone that they're list wasn't in any order if it wasn't for the fact they needed to be sure to remind us who the IC was at the very top, and the fact they needed to color code it all the way down.

You mean to tell me this person who went through the trouble of formatting they're post also magically didn't have enough attention to detail to list their scum reads from most town to most scum?

My opinion right now is that Red is scum for the reasons I'm mentioning. I've been scum reading them since they made those two posts and was just waiting to see what other information I could get and this whole thing by Furt has given me something to chase. I think Furt is scum and tossed their scum read on Red to distance, then joined Klick on Marashu to finish their buddying of Klick who they had at the top (although being at the top apparently means nothing, right?) of their town reads.

The other thing I didn't like about Furt was asking out loud if we wanted town reads. Why does anyone with a Town POV think "let me see how much information the other town people actually want from me.." like town POV should always be "Let me tell you everything I think and know.

[Kowahbunga]

No, but that didn't look like the scum game I just played with him at all

So you're just going to use that previous game to read them in this game?

Not just that but it's a significant factor

Since I was his partner in that game I feel it gave me some real insight to how he approaches the alignment

I normally hate using previous games, but this one scenario makes a bit of sense because you see the true them the whole time as their partner and in the scum thread with them. So I can appreciate that, but I think you're wrong.

[Kowahbunga]

Kow, Furt is gonna Furt.

That being said, have only seen his town game so far.

I'm never going to consider someone's play in a previous game as a way to decipher their role in this game. So if you have an actual reason they're not scum in this game other than "well that's not what they did in another game" I'm happy to hear it.

[Kowahbunga]

Unless you can see viable partners for him, I don't see as much relevance there right now? If he's your top scumread at least see if you can find his partners too. Perhaps you think Drew is hard defending it with weak excuses?

Burden of proof usually relies on the accuser, you know. If you find the entire team and give a decent reason why you think it's them that'll help. Even something like scumone/scumtwo/lurker would help you out there.

So did you not read where I think the reason they voted Marashu over Red is because they scum read Red to distance from their partner?

[Kowahbunga]

Unless you can see viable partners for him, I don't see as much relevance there right now? If he's your top scumread at least see if you can find his partners too. Perhaps you think Drew is hard defending it with weak excuses?

Burden of proof usually relies on the accuser, you know. If you find the entire team and give a decent reason why you think it's them that'll help. Even something like scumone/scumtwo/lurker would help you out there.

And are you legit saying I shouldn't bother accusing anyone of anything until I have the entire scum team figured out? And you want me to just throw a name out there to satisfy you? Am I the only one supposed to find the entire team?

I have no idea what you're trying to tell me here. But it's like you're just trying to discredit my opinion on someone because I didn't lay out the entire game for you.

[Kowahbunga]

dead gaem

Do you think there are any players that benefit from the game being so quiet?

[Kowahbunga]

Personally I thought the self vote was what got Clone the scum read, but that's just me.

I can agree with this about Clone and the self vote. It always seems very "if i was scum would i do this?!" type of thing to me.

[Kowahbunga]

VOTE: Clone

[Kowahbunga]

I'm not sure the VC but I hope when I see it we have managed to consolidate to two wagons that we can debate and decide on because this game just needs progress at this point.

[Kowahbunga]

I really don't think it's Clone, though? Like, it's not a good look that my two biggest scumreads (BBT and Drew) are on there.

If you had to pick Red or Elsa for scum, who would you pick?

[Kowahbunga]

I really don't think it's Clone, though? Like, it's not a good look that my two biggest scumreads (BBT and Drew) are on there.

If you had to pick Red or Elsa for scum, who would you pick?

Why does it have to be either/or? I have red for town, I didn't mind Element's tone (even though content left something to be desired), and Elsa seems fine? You'll note that my vote isn't on either of them.

I dunno, maybe I'm just not seeing what other people are seeing in this game? I also don't think furtive is as towny as people are making that slot out to be.

It was just a question for you to answer. If you want to know why I chose those two, it's because your vote on either of them would break that tie, and give us two wagons in the lead between Clone and that person you chose.

Whether you're scum or town, 7 town players have all consolidated their votes onto either Clone, Red, or Elsa. We have 3 days to come to an agreement and this game has not, at any point, felt like it's fast enough to switch just because you aren't finding the three competing wagons your cup of tea. While it certainly doesn't come down to your vote, your vote stands out currently.

I now feel a bit like you're probably scum realizing "there are three wagons with 3 days to go, all of them are town, a lim is going to happen and i don't need to be part of it, so let's get some town reads to show that i was right while pushing people no one else is voting" - maybe it's a stretch, but i have nothing else to go on so I like letting my imagination run wild sometimes to see where it takes me.

[Kowahbunga]

I mean I was truthful in saying I just woke up and didn't reread the pagetop until it was mentioned. But if it's true, clearly Clone didn't do a good enough job of being good to deserve leniency. A lapse in judgement is a thing.

That's why keeping people 2 votes from death is better.

Makes accidents like this not happen.

Why would you consider it an accident? If you voted them, it means you wanted them eliminated. You got what you wanted. You saying it was an accident makes me think you know what Clone is flipping. Wouldn't town!elsa only vote if they were scum? Which means this "accident" as you called it, should have a good result until proven otherwise.

[Kowahbunga]

Probably full claim day.

[Kowahbunga]

VT

Cephrir

[Kowahbunga]

I think someone is lying out of the VT claims.

[Kowahbunga]

Marashu VT
Klick VT
furtiveglance VT
Cephrir VT
BlueBloodedToffee VT
Doctor Drew Vig
redFF VT
Kowahbunga VT

[Kowahbunga]

I don't think a no lim is going to matter based on what I'm predicting to happen if we do.

I think the team is Red, Ceph, and BBT. But it's a complete guess at this point and I'm already pretty sure we are losing this game.

VOTE: no lim

[Kowahbunga]

Im fine giving my vote to Drew.

[Kowahbunga]

I am good with this.

So much pressure on me though lol

I wont blame you for being wrong if you are. This game has been a mess for town.

[Kowahbunga]

So should everyone just give their reads and such?

I feel like I should stay kinda silent about all this, I don't want to offer up any info what way I would vote.

Judge, jury, executioner.....scum prepare to meet thy fate.

Or I lose game for town lol.

Either way, this is exciting.

Red would be my choice. I think he made some posts that seem like he knows my alignment which now we know with his VT claim, he shouldn't know.

Ceph is my second because it was my initial gut reaction in D1 and I want to trust myself.

BBT because I think they did the least (which is really saying something in this game) of the remaining people.

[Kowahbunga]

Also how do we coordinate voting so no tomfoolery happens?

UNVOTE: no lim

I'm just waiting for you to give a name.

[Kowahbunga]

So should everyone just give their reads and such?

I feel like I should stay kinda silent about all this, I don't want to offer up any info what way I would vote.

Judge, jury, executioner.....scum prepare to meet thy fate.

Or I lose game for town lol.

Either way, this is exciting.

Red would be my choice. I think he made some posts that seem like he knows my alignment which now we know with his VT claim, he shouldn't know.

Ceph is my second because it was my initial gut reaction in D1 and I want to trust myself.

BBT because I think they did the least (which is really saying something in this game) of the remaining people.

These are my reads

[Kowahbunga]

Drew, at this point I think you're just doing everyone a favour picking a name.

[Kowahbunga]

VOTE: mara

[Kowahbunga]

I felt very detached from this game because of the replacements. Was tough to figure out. But thank you to all the replacements that did step up to help us finish the game.