Mini Normal 2288: Reposting Same Picture As Flavor Are Lame

[Shirou]

I don't feel like me claiming klick visiting me was at all alignment indicative btw
I killed klick because (A) didn't think he was getting elimmed (B) thought people listen to him (C) he was onto andante

maybe not but you definitely had much bigger odds of dying there as town rather than klick i think

but i thought herta/geraintm always had scum here and andante was always town so my read on you by the end didn't matter i guess

[Shirou]

when i say i'll ignore all meta can i point out to this game as an example?

i'm not sure how much i said it but i literally stopped reading andante posts after a certain point because i was just looking for how much she was posting

i was like "andante has some really weird logic at certain points but like, she can't possibly be this excited to play as scum right? right...? she posted a few lines in her other scum games"

[Shirou]

I don't know how ninja was easily believed i even said in PT that i didn't like going with this true claim that freedom wanted because just admitting u went to the person who died place is like.....ballsy.

i assumed that to balance hider we had to have a non useless town PR

hider can die on d1 and leave town with 3 lims only

it's so degenerate that not even i would run such a swingy setup i think, you do not make it possible for town to only have 3 lims and at the same time give no strong town PR to balance it out i think...? IC isn't enough

[Shirou]

i also thought taly rep out was +scum by disinterest as i said before the final vote but i definitely had much more conviction on herta always flipping scum and the setup spec in my head pointed out to us having at least one non semi useless town PR to balance out the Hider (so one of you/freedom was town in my mind)

i'm actually not sure i want to play a normal rather than an open next time...?

[Shirou]

i think this setup would be kinda...fine as long as they removed the hider for something else

i really have an issue with hider here i think but i've not thought too much about the setup with herta being town

[Shirou]

i thought hider was a good-ish role before but i agree with you that it's kinda trash if you were being honest there

:thonking:

[Shirou]

Klick had the best role for the town

and klick literally told scum that he was JOAT...

even if you didn't kill him for that i felt like it was funny that one of our strongest PRs literally told "pls night kill me" if he targeted mafia

[Shirou]

welp, gg

i was secret fourth mafia traitor

[Shirou]

Do you consider Bulletproof to be a Protective? I guess I was kind of thinking of Hider like Bulletproof.

erm

hider isn't anything like bulletproof imo because it basically can have a massive negative utility by giving scum one less mislim to win by a double death

bulletproof can't possibly have negative town utility

[Shirou]

Or you can not use it.

Like vigilante you know.

hider a role soo good its +town utility TO NOT USE

Yeah.

Like vigilante.

vigilante is conftown even if it gives a double death, and it also presumably kills a common suspect rather than needing to correctly guess town in the sketchiest pool (the not super town read people that can be nightkilled but neither the scummy people that can be scum)

i'm not really complaining about the setup we would have lost anyway

i just really have come to understand how hider is a pretty bad role in most closed setups and a bulletproof or doctor would have been better here, just my 2 cents

[Shirou]

I'd still love to know why Shirou replaced themselves. Just curious really. But if I'll never know, I'm fine with that too.

because it's an easy way to catch people attention and then do something with that attention

usually the thing being starting to effort more in the game and clear myself through that

but alas, it didn't quite work although i still wasn't mislimmed

[Shirou]

I'm curious what you think once you've had more time to think about it. FMPOV based on what I've heard/seen then the only thing I would change is the Hider into a BP.

hmm i'm gonna try to reply this and what you asked about my reads at some point tomorrow or so yep

too sleepy rn

[Shirou]

I don't know how ninja was easily believed i even said in PT that i didn't like going with this true claim that freedom wanted because just admitting u went to the person who died place is like.....ballsy.

TBH I was surprised that most people didn't publicly question if I made up Ninja. It was the first reasonable thing that I thought of that made sense with a Town Watcher.

i thought herta was "for sure" scum and we had at least one more town PR, so that made one of you/fire telling the truth. i thought ninja made some sense then and thought it was a rather bold thing of you to completely fakeclaim if scum given you had multitasking and could easily theoretically target elsewhere of klick even if you had nightkilled him

i just thought the ninja thing was likely true even if you were scum

[Shirou]

andante laughing this much at me should be illegal

only premium members on my patreon should be allowed to enjoy my clowning this much, i'm trying to make a honest living here as internet jester

pls support me in the official channels

[Shirou]

i think i said i would reply frog on what i think of the setup and hm i didn't think that much about it but my 2 cents on it is

(disclaimer: we (town) wouldn't have won at all no matter the changes so i'm not trying to say the setup was at fault or anything)

if the hider was added for some protection from NKs rather than as an investigative, i think bulletproof would have been less risky/swingy yeah

and then if it was just a BP townie rather than hider, i would have dropped the novice on the follower, town had PRs like motion detector and voyeur but i don't think they were that useful in a multitasking setup where scum can easily (and are even incentivized) to trueclaim. i would rather give town a non-nerfed follower than to give a voyeur here i think? motion detector sounds better to CC scum fakeclaiming VT but only one of the scum could be caught like that as well since Fire couldn't claim anything other than PR

basically i think that motion detector and voyeur here made much more sense as investigative scum roles and it did mislead me a bit into tunneling herta/geraintm harder but definitely would have hardtunneled they either way

i think i would also have dropped the roaming for watcher though if watcher had to be scum, as a scum watcher in this setup full of louds/announcing, i would rather just watch my partners and i wouldn't be able to do that with a roaming modifier, so...i think scum watcher here is a bit forced to play roleplay a town watcher that goes around watching different people. it would take me time to full explain my reasoning but i think a watcher for scum here is kinda awkward to use as a PR hunting tool

so tl;dr:

i would turn hider into BP (the unique part that really matters actually, the others are mostly details imo)

drop town voyeur entirely or give it to scum

drop novice modifier on follower or trade watcher/motion detector role alignments (making it a town roaming watcher and a scum roaming motion detector)

i think the setup was...kinda a confusing kind of fun though, i don't dislike it, but do also think that the PRs didn't help much either scum or town

[Shirou]

I think i would do something like (not typing all the loud/announcing modifiers but i thought they were super fun and would maintain them):

Town BP
Town Lazy JOAT (Motion-finder, Watcher-finder, Cop-finder, etc)
Town Novice Follower (retaining novice for giving town a nerfed watcher )
Town Roaming Watcher
6x Town VTs
Town Day 4 IC

vs

Mafia Motion Detector
Mafia Voyeur
Mafia Goon

The Joat having a BUNCH of PR-finders, including ones that DONT exist on the setup sounds hilarious rather than a tracker/neapolitan given he was both loud and announcing, it would both be helpful to town if he confirmed someone as a certain role/not a certain role, but also good to scum if they wanted to fakeclaim something that he had a false investigative for? like, joat would be the clown town PR in that scenario

the IC being Day 4 also sounds funny because even if he's supposedly an IC it's a huge nerf that may end up making town miseliminate them anyway or scum nightkill them early

but uh, this is just my 2 cents on how to maximize lots of confusing PRs but also make they useful for each team

[Shirou]

maybe town BP could get the compulsive visitor role that also does nothing yeah

[Shirou]

the game sort of functioned as mountainous if u really think about it.
almost all town prs added almost no info
i was only one giving town info and obviously i was lying so.
everything else didn't help town except i guess innocent child.

i should have been cop so that i can check andante and after getting a guilty obviously conclude that the game is bastard bc assuming andante is town for old meta literally cannot go tits up

[Shirou]

Town Day 4 IC

a day 4 IC is so troll

i would in truth remove the IC entirely i think bc it doesn't vibe with the theme of a game where almost everyone visit others but i wanted to include all the roles so i was cute on hard nerfing the IC

[Shirou]

well either way thanks for modding enchant and i think town always lose this even if you add a cop somehow

[Shirou]

well either way thanks for modding enchant and i think town always lose this even if you add a cop somehow

to be clear because we played badly