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[biancospino]

Damnit there goes my plan to ask him what dragons taste like.

Even if the answer is probably just "chicken".

More like pork.

Anyway, I've just skimmed, but I think I like Frog, he's solvey and all, thou I'm not sure I agree with the specific tell.

VOTE: geraintm

RedFF it would be great if you have some follow up to that naked vote because I'm getting major scum pings from you already.

Youve caight me i am scum

the fact is. i made one RVS vote and frog said he's getting "major scum pings" from me. it's a laughable accusation so i responded in kind.

Yeah, the accusation was not because you made a RVS vote, it was because of its form. And I get why, it seems atypical; it very much looked like you had a reason to cast it, so you should be able to expand on what pinged you about 19 right?

-crescent's post delves multiple layers deep into a post that's literally just a joke
-frog explicitly says he's not reading that much into it,

and i'm not either

- just happy with that spot for my vote on page 2, although this reaction certainly doesn't make me feel worse about it

You're not reading that much into it, but enough to put a vote for it? This is too careless to be a town POV.

This seems disingenuous, it's not like much is warranted to a vote so early in the game.
VOTE: Kow

[biancospino]

Yeah, the accusation was not because you made a RVS vote, it was because of its form. And I get why, it seems atypical; it very much looked like you had a reason to cast it, so you should be able to expand on what pinged you about 19 right?

nope it was just an rvs vote

geraint had just posted so i didnt have to scroll up to look at the playerlist i just voted him

Eh, fine. I still think that just naked voting like that is bound to give the impression that the voter was pinged by something, but whatever.

@bianco I don't think it's disingenuous, he is new and probably doesn't know that

I know that I feel your posts are not a town POV. At this stage of the game that will be all I have to play with.

I played mafia off and on starting in 2008. I've played consistently since 2014. There's nothing new about me other than this account or my way of playing.

and you've never seen someone throw a vote around on minimal basis on page 2?????

My issue is not with the vote being minimal or not. My issue is that you used the same reason to vote for me as you used to discredit someone else's opinion.

You told that someone they're "reading too much into something" which is 100% a scum POV thing to say because any one that is town here should be reading everything with a fine tooth comb. Whether it was on page 2 or 200 doesn't matter.

So he told Crescent that he disagreed on her read on Clone; and I don't had the impression that he implied that Crescent was scummy for it. He hasn't said that one should not read everything finely, just that he didn't think the specific case was fruitful

[biancospino]

-crescent's post delves multiple layers deep into a post that's literally just a joke
-frog explicitly says he's not reading that much into it, and i'm not either - just happy with that spot for my vote on page 2, although this reaction certainly doesn't make me feel worse about it

On break for a moment, I'll read the next page later.

That post was 7 minutes after he got voted, he has provided no content to speak of the first ~24 hours of the game, and he doesn't have a post since then. It feels like a weak defense to just dismiss it as a joke - I want to see something from him of substance.

Wrt the timing, are you implying that he's just keeping an eye on the thread while lurking and only posted out of perceived necessity for self-preservation, or that it was coordinated?

[biancospino]

@bianco I don't think it's disingenuous, he is new and probably doesn't know that

I know that I feel your posts are not a town POV. At this stage of the game that will be all I have to play with.

I played mafia off and on starting in 2008. I've played consistently since 2014. There's nothing new about me other than this account or my way of playing.

and you've never seen someone throw a vote around on minimal basis on page 2?????

I hate this but think it's town
VOTE: BBT

i would still like and answer to my question

I won't be giving one for I cannot remember

I am getting somewhat lost tbh. What question? If it's the one in the quote then Elenents' answer doesn't parse, so I presume it must be the one in 55?

[biancospino]

RedFF it would be great if you have some follow up to that naked vote because I'm getting major scum pings from you already.

VOTE: geraintm

Side note: After giving it some thought, this post obviously trolling a legitimate inquiry from FK so early actually kinda townpings me. It's something you don't often see scum do, though I don't know the specific player. I would say the scum equity is higher if at least one of Gera or Red are scum.

if you don't think this is a joke then you probably didn't get the joke

maybe im just confused as to what you're referring to tbh, you're so deep in layers that i don't even understand what you're talking about in this post and the followup to it x3

This feels very fake. The entire argument is "posting a deflecting joke immediately after being voted for, then peacing out of the game for a long time, is scum AI. I wish to see more posts from him." This is pretty cut and dry.

You seem to be going out of your way to drastically conflate what I'm actually saying with all this nonsense talk about "layers". It feels like a very hard deflection relative to a minimal amount of pressure being put on him.

@ceph, What is "this post" exactly? The post you quoted directly is from yourself, so I presume the Crescent post quoted therein (33)?

if you don't think this is a joke then you probably didn't get the joke

This responds to 33, which does not talk about Clone, and instead talks about Elements' naked vote. Are you saying that vote was an obvious joke?

Or maybe the quoting is messed up in some way?

[biancospino]

@

bianco

@

JacksonVirgo

can you give me second opinions on the BBT and Clone interaction?

I'm conflicted actually. I can see Clone as either alignment just slightly panicking after being voted and just slapping something toghether to disempasse, if this is actually his first game as it seems. If that's not the case, I'd say that's fishier.

@BBT didn't actually do much, but I'm interested on whether their distaste for ceph's defense of clone comes from the fact they sus clone themselves, or from the fact they dislike ceph's arguments specifically

[biancospino]

@

bianco

@

JacksonVirgo

can you give me second opinions on the BBT and Clone interaction?

#nullwars

Ehi, no need to spam :/

[biancospino]

I'm also going to sleep btw, so if you need to ask anything else you'll probably have to wait 'till morning

[biancospino]

@ceph, on #91. I don't think 33 is related to clone, however Crescent response to your response was (

The entire argument is "posting a deflecting joke immediately after being voted for, then peacing out of the game for a long time, is scum AI. I wish to see more posts from him." This is pretty cut and dry

) so I'm confused here, there must have been some miscommunication along the way.

[biancospino]

I'll be up for a little while still, yes

[biancospino]

Lol what.
I just though much of the quote labyrinth didn't really make sense, and tried to ask ceph to help me make sense of it. And apparently it just didn't so there's that.

Btw, I'm still unsatisfied on something. @Crescent responding as she did to the response to 33 is just out of parse.

[biancospino]

Wait, wait. So, @ceph, in 46 wrt. Crescent, you

wasn't

talking about her read of Clone? That... would necessitate quite a shift in understanding of the game

[biancospino]

First, can you clarify what/why/how you and Cephrir were just communicating about? It looked like you were both holograms who glitched out for a second and it's a little creepy ngl.

When the game is over, I'm stealing this for my sig btw

[biancospino]

Let's try again.

I did find chep's 74 (and his own quotes therein) to not parse toghether with the response it got in 76, specifically because he quoted 33, which clearly talked about Elements' vote, and 76 (by Crescent) clearly talks about Elements. Now, since I also believed that chep's objection to Crescent was due to her read on clone, as that was the way I read 46, and since I also believed that 72 would have made at least as much sense if it talked about clone's joke in response to BBT rather than to Ele's vote, I concluded that it was entirely possible that the quoting in 72, and so 74, could have been messed up. So I asked.
As it turns out, cephs says he intented 46 to be read in a way that is different from what I did read.

As per Crescent, her response in 76 makes no sense standing the quotes as they are, since it's not a valid retort to a retort to 33 since the subject matter is wrong. However, it would work if both Crescent and Ceph ended up somehow mutual miscommunicating about what they were talking about, which is apparently what happened

[biancospino]

and 76 (by Crescent) clearly talks about Elements

EBWOP 76 clearly talks about clone.
That's what happens when I try to post this sort of stuff while sleepy

[biancospino]

What did you think those bits are talking about exactly?

[biancospino]

G'night.

[biancospino]

Alright, I will need to look at this quotewall. Stuff in blue is my commentary.

Alright, currently reading through the thread. ill write up my responses to the stuff targeted at me. I'll also try to give an analysis on a few things. I won't spend too long discussing stuff that has phased out

It would help me a bit to see a response to Clone from BBT.

"no no no no, its one of my many clones that could be scum you are looking for. Mr 23563"
Nah, I think it's this one.

The Mr 23563 was a dig at how many posts he has as (conspiracy) veteran players always get power roles, often evil.

I feel like BBT was trying to act normal and was making a very natural vote against me. Clearly, it was because of my "I just came to say, hello" post. And yes that was my reply to BBT. Dismissive yes, because I felt like his vote didnt have any value to it, so didn't warrant a valid response.

and I'd like to hear how you differentiated BBT from trying to look normal from being so.

#30 Clone's first posts feel worse. First one feels a little unnatural, but the second one gives me some ping. It's a dismissive, useless post 7 minutes after he gets voted. I feel like that post only exists because someone voted him, and he felt he had to respond with something, but had nothing of substance to respond with.

#76This feels very fake. The entire argument is "posting a deflecting joke immediately after being voted for, then peacing out of the game for a long time, is scum AI. I wish to see more posts from him." This is pretty cut and dry.

You seem to be going out of your way to drastically conflate what I'm actually saying with all this nonsense talk about "layers". It feels like a very hard deflection relative to a minimal amount of pressure being put on him.

You're right I had nothing to respond with as it was the first page and there was nothing of value to respond to. I also took his vote as a natural way of getting the game started and didn't think much of it. Accusing someone of being scum at the start of the game for saying "hello" is a shit-take on things.

this is... excessive concern for a D1 vote frankly. I don't think one such vote should be conflated with a sr. It's true that BBT stated they do sr clone, but much later. As we're here, @BBT, was you already sring clone when you first voted him?

7 minutes, don't really see how that's relevant? This game has no external notifications, so I was obviously online at the time. As if I'm gonna be lurking around here for hours on end. At the time of your post that accuses me of peacing out for a long time. A long time was 12 hours at the time of your post. 8 hours sleep, 2 hours of relaxation and another 2 hours at-least to do things during the day, which is a Saturday for me. My post that was 7 minutes after getting voted was around 11pm on a quiet, rainy Friday night, hence why I was more likely to be online. If your post was made right now, it would be more relevant.

well that's false, the site has external notifications with mails. But frankly they work for someone but don't work for me looking at the Bug thread, so I'll let this slide. The timing otherwise makes sense

Crescent seems like scum that is trying to take advantage of a vote that had a shitty scum-like post to it, as they don't believe i'll have anything valid to say.

I believe Crescent should have voted me by now, the excessive analyzation and a delay to vote comes off as Mafia. Their posts tend to indicate that they know I'm not actually Mafia (as they are Mafia)

Clone's two posts give vibes like he's trying too hard, by forcing himself to post when he feels he has to post *something*, because he doesn't know what to say.

Scum often find it hard to transition into a game, and I find early game awkwardness to have a fair amount of scum AI. (I'm interested to see what Ceph and especially Gera's second posts look like, for example).

Yip, did not know what to say lol. But I'm not gonna say nothing when I've been voted.

yeah, this doesn't really stand. Again, it's displaying excessive concern with that one vote, which shouldn]'t really force to do anything.

]

People seem like they act the same way on day 1 whether or not they are scum. Vanilla roles and inexperience players have just as much early game awkwardness

no. D1 lims are not random, and suggesting this is +scum

Anyway, a few shit-takes.

I believe redFF is most likely town. He's staying down-low but tends to be actively curious and is asking

BlueBloodedToffee - "Don't particularly like Ceph's defence of Clone." only relevant thing that he has said, since his vote on me. I believe the vote was just a natural vote to get things rolling. What I don't like is him going silence while a discussion about me being scum was in progress and only made 1 shit-take post whilst that was going on. I don't believe BBT has any coordination with anyone, but wouldn't be surprised if Crescent was making the push because of how his team mate voted.

Crescent I would bet on being team mates with BBT. I'd like to him to give his analyze on him as they are one of the few that has been skipped by Crescent.

Cephiri we are team mates, jks. Idk if he is Ma...town than we are team mates.

biancospino, making consistent replies and asking valid questions. Doesn't particular seem like hes siding with anyone. I'd tend to believe that he is a villager. Their questions seem that they are actually trying to get information out of people and aren't just asking them to push.

yeah, suggesting that Crescent is on clone because she felt the need to keep pushing where her partner first voted on page1 is frankly absurd. Again, this give that vote excessive value.

Better content later, now I'm on a bus

[biancospino]

You're right I had nothing to respond with as it was the first page and there was nothing of value to respond to. I also took his vote as a natural way of getting the game started and didn't think much of it. Accusing someone of being scum at the start of the game for saying "hello" is a shit-take on things.
...

Yip, did not know what to say lol. But I'm not gonna say nothing when I've been voted.

@clone, don't misrep me please. I said you attributed excessive value on that vote in your successive commentary, not that your little joke in itself was excessive. If you just go and admit you felt obligated to say something, that's not a good look

[biancospino]

I'm not loving 129.

Too much certainty for my tastes. Could be play style tho.

Are you disagreeing with the merit of the matter or just the form?

And I am not certain of anything, but I see no reason to muddle my words if I see something fishy

[biancospino]

I believe Crescent should have voted me by now, the excessive analyzation and a delay to vote comes off as

Mafia

. Their posts tend to indicate that they know I'm not actually

Mafia

(as they are

Mafia

)

Something like this always pings me a bit. Because I know we're playing a game on "mafia" scum - and generally the opposing team to town is "mafia" but Mod never mentioned "mafia" in their opening posts. They referred to the opposing faction as "scum".

The first person to mention "mafia" this game? Well that was me, but in reference to the name of the game.

Others have also mentioned "mafia" in reference to the game.

Clone though, they have actually used the term "mafia" like there are mafia in the game. Likelihood of that being the case? I assume pretty good. But this is something that sticks out to me.

This is indeed not an appealing argument at all, however I think it migth have been in good faith, it's true scum are almost always called Mafia in Normals but also Kow may not entirely know the normal guidelines, as demonstrated here:

It shows 3 people on Clone but Clone having only two votes, but I believe it is correct otherwise.

Well would probably be worth a discussion if one of those three can't have their vote counted or something.

In fact, idk if a scum!Kow would even invent such a '''slip''' in the first place, I don't really think a scum would see that word and think it's pingy enough to fruitfully latch onto it.
UNVOTE:
@Kow, do you agree with Crescent reading of clone's opening? In all cases, if your take wrt. the slip is genuine, you should be eyeng Clone, which would tie to that.

Let's look for a sec at FK. He burrowed Kow in his towncore, and then quickly dropped them from it as soon as 43 was pointed out; now, this would be somewhat of a hat-trick for scum!FK in a world were Kow is town, as it would actually end up blurring Kow's cred further while not appearing to be shady. I trust FK to be good at noticing stuff, so I can see the fact he put forth a towncase that would stop working after noticing 43 to be a deliberate trap, especially since the "proactive" post from Kow was 45, near on the same page

[biancospino]

I feel like I got really stumped in this game all of a sudden.

You ninja'd me, but that is really the reason I don't know what to think of you anymore. Like, I want to TR you, but for some reason I'm being paranoid you're lying there

[biancospino]

Getting stumped indicates a lack of TMI so if you believe that I'm telling the truth about being stumped then that should not be something which is causing you paranoia. Normally someone would experience paranoia over being unsure whether or not I am actually stumped, for example.

Yes, but the thing is I don't 100% believe you.

And also yes, "perceptiveness" is apt, but eh, I can totally believe I don't know how people work.

[biancospino]

It shows 3 people on Clone but Clone having only two votes, but I believe it is correct otherwise.

Well would probably be worth a discussion if one of those three can't have their vote counted or something.

This is definitely the most forced day 1 post I have ever seen.
100% sure I have found a player who is trying you hard.

100%

This (the Kow's quote) is someone one shan't say unless they don't really know normal guidelines. There is some merit I can see in feigning that thou

[biancospino]

my mafia brain is not functioning right now

Mafia brain?

Not town brain?

110% found scum here

You are voting for clone.

c'mon, 'tis was a joke, don't read too much into it.

But in seriousness, @geraintm, were your

others

100%'s also jokes or should they be read in good faith? Specifically 245, that you also bolded

[biancospino]

VOTE: geraintm

The shtick is getting irksome. It's just obfuscating at this point. Again, yes or no, was you actually confident in your

bolded 100%

claim?

[biancospino]

In fact, idk if a scum!Kow would even invent such a '''slip''' in the first place, I don't really think a scum would see that word and think it's pingy enough to fruitfully latch onto it.
UNVOTE:
@Kow, do you agree with Crescent reading of clone's opening? In all cases, if your take wrt. the slip is genuine, you should be eyeng Clone, which would tie to that.

I'm not sure what WRT means - I feel like I've seen that before but it's not registering with me what it means and I can't find a guess with the context. And when you say "clone's opening" are you talking about their very first post, or the post that was huge and that i initially mentioned the mafia thing about?

Yeah, "with respect to" as FK said.
Anyway, I meant the very first posts; the ones that Crescent did initially read on in 29

[biancospino]

You are voting for clone.

^

@Gera, since you keep not answering straight, I will take your "bold means squared", and your "100 I would never dare to troll you" to mean you mean your sr on Kow. Just tell us, is clone found scum? Is Kow found scum? Is Elements found scum?
And drop the %'s. Just answer straight.

[biancospino]

i think you're reading too much into things

This is a scum mindset.

@Kow, re: 292, I was actually thinking about this. Just to clarify if you just have a problem with Ceph for being dismissive of Crescent wrt. Clone, or if you actually also found Crescent case appealing

[biancospino]

@FK: Yes. It's no mistery I'm not sold on that slot.

However, I won't remove my FoS on Gera. If you need me to move my vote for shenanigans, already assume my intent to hammer if he gets to e-1 without me

And, btw, @Gera, the fact you are already voting there doesn't mean you'll be fine with them being flashed to a wagon.

[biancospino]

@

bianco

@

Crescent

@

geraintm

Would you three be open to flash wagoning Clone?

If this is happening right now, otherwise not until tomorrow