Mini Normal 2283 - Game Over!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

First?

VOTE: NM

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm V/LA for this weekend watching my mets lose to the padres but I think we'd be better off not voting N_M and just letting him do his normal lurk forever and never post anything of relevance shtick for a while, just for old times sakes.

Hopefully you're in for a surprise with NM. He did posting last time, but he was also scum.


So let's see.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Aisa

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Firebringer

Sounds like an excuse to not have reads.

Also I've found empirically that scum are more likely to deliberately avoid filling out my survey and act dismissive toward it.

Here you're talking about personality clashes being important to you but you're acting aloof toward filling out my survey which would verify or reject the idea that personality clashes are a legit thing here.

Hmm, this is bad. I don't know whether it's just bad in general or if it's bad because I think Fire is town. What I do know is that I refused to fill out a Frog survey in a recent game and he didn't make a sound about it. Frog, what's different?

I feel like this is +town for Grib, this is like the quintessential townie reaction to playing with me for the first time.

Feels like appeasement. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I scum read you in our recent game and you scum read me right back, no?

Above the Line
Firebringer
Frog
Grib
Bellaphant
The Line-------Eiralox, NM, Enchant, Firth, TSQ, BBT
HighPrincess
Aisa
Below the Line

So many bad reads - Talk about any of Frog, Bella, HighPrincess or Aisa?

I can also see town!Fire viewing Aisa as scummy even though I think the opposite and am

low

certain his read is wrong and Aisa is Town.

What makes you think town!Fire is scum reading town!Aisa as opposed to scum!Fire scum reading town!Aisa?

I was going to scum case Elements but I think they're reads are tracking. It's interesting that they chose to put Bella above null. I was feeling that earlier but I couldn't really rationalize it.

Town leans:
Fire
Grib
Aisa
Elements

How are their reads tracking? What does that even mean? You see a progression in them? They line up with your view? Explain?

Not fully caught up yet but this is much better than my current vote

VOTE: Frog

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hi Bella, you scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Actually no.

But I am town so you must be? That's how this works, right?

Do you have any thoughts on Frog?

I at least want to see BBT's catch-up before I resume vomiting onto the thread.

Are you OK?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I was going to say you're towny, too, but scratch that, I guess ;3

This is probably the real point to towneead them though because they're trying to sort you here I think

I read that as a joke from Aisa? Aisa, can you confirm?

You think I'm wrong Town binning Aisa? Can you meta them?

On what basis are you town binning them?

The problems I have with that vote are

1) it was waaay too early to accuse Firebringer of not wanting to have reads.
2) it was also too early to accuse scum of not wanting to fill out your survey - barely half the game had posted at that time.
3) you didn't explain why scum would or would not interact with your quiz.
4) I purposefully ignored your quiz to see what you would do about it, and you didn't react at all, which makes me think that 2 was complete bull.
5) you townreading me right after that felt appease-y.

Good posting

VOTE: Aisa

This disappoints me.

What was wrong with it? I thought it was a great vote.

I ideally would have held it longer but Frog is being way too scummy to ignore him.

Literally, if it hadn't been for that vote, I think I would be townreading him here. There's too many red flags for me to give him the BOTD, but the phase is young.

Town reading him based on what?

Not leaving it there however, as this one is going to VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee, as it's not particularly a fan of silently joining a bandwagon then disappearing entirely.

Do tell how one 'silently' joins a bandwagon? Does a naked vote draw more attention than a vote accompanied with words? I would say so.

Yeah I mean fire is probably scum

I don't see how the post you quoted makes Fire scum? Help me?

Shea scared I'm gonna catch him if he posts more than 3 times every 48 hours

First decent post you have made. Significant enough for me to mention, too.

I'm moving Princess back up to null:

Town lean:
Elements
Aisa
Grib

Null:
Princess

Scum:
Fire

Fire spewed Aisa as Town.

Princess moved because?

Your scum read/not town reads are really weird. You seem desperate to town bin Aisa and I can't work out why.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

why even are ya'll on Asia? Solway Firth is a sagacious wagon, like they havent even posted yet. Element coming in putting Asia under some line, and fire being like..... ultra focused on finding 'the bunny'......

while Asia has felt pretty much wholly green to me after a few one-liners exchanged.

this whole frogster/fire thing is cluttering up this early imo, it all seemed mostly to be i nterpersonal meta and as eira dont meta eira dont read.... much at least. I mean of the two i'd say i'd ay i feel worse on fire..... pretty much for abhorrent mood page 1. then again fire adores n_m so there's hope i gues >.>

SO meh today is a lazy day for me imma play monster train and endless legend. I think my vote's in a pretty good spot tbh........ firth's gotta pitch at least, and enchant. I'll trust Asia for now, no strong feelings on others buuut maybe..... Grib doees feel a bit more green than the mass? Like viewing things with an open yet uninformed mind. So yeah like way later gators

This post is bad.

You feel strongly enough that Aisa is town that you're willing to go and bat for them? Can you talk about why Aisa is this shining beacon of towniness?

Element wasn't 'ultra focused' on finding the bunny. Fire was. Fire's page 1 was very, very town and I would be extremely surprised if that came from scum. Like, why does abhorrent mood = scum?

PEdit - OK, if you were joking, why did you not pick up Frog for townreading you with the reasoning that you were sorting players?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Nine pages of nonsense!i don't think it's massively ia for fire, I think grim might be town and I'm biased into reading frog as town. If you are all town , please stop.

Aisa is fine and I've found them fairly easy to read as both alignments.

Bella can be town for Today.

@bbt, I was really into this player list and really hope to be actually town with you. I think this is town Ish for frog, but I am aware I'm easily swayed by them as a player.

Elemis is the player that's pinged me the most.

Talk about both of these please Bella?

Yeah let's just vote me off

NM, please play like last game? It was really enjoyable and you're actually a decent player when you try

Firebringer, do you like playing as scum?

This question is awful and looks like Solway isn't even reading the game.

I'm reading though and can't think of anything useful to say.

I literally asked you about 4 of your reads

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I did register that Frog's interpretation was incorrect, but townies get stuff wrong all the time, no?

Sure, but you accepted a town read based on a false premise is what I am getting at...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

i mean I don't know who made you the grand arbiter of post rating, like is that some sorta accolade comes with a crown? and joking? about what? Fire liking NM? And when did frogster TR me for sorting..... i didn't really sort jack skwat thus far, only got my Asia feel, said i feel greenish on grib, and then later the iffy vibes i got from bella and elements, which isn't much tbh, i think bella is a ghost so meh and elements.... tbh hard to read for me atm.

And then you go on to say i said Elements i chasing the bunny?> after I said, in the post you kwouted, that Fire said that?
And fire did say that, and by that allusion i meant fire's numerous callouts and early focus on Asia.... which pinged me tbh, this early it's just weird, some actions perk me up like a gopher out a hole and that's one of 'em. I mentioned elements having Asia beneath the line, which again, pinged me cos what did Asia do that's scummy when elements posted that list?

So i mean i don't mind if u think my post is bad, whatever, i wasn't amalgamated to impress u, Asia feels town and that's that. This early I like to trust my gut, so i'm a happy sheep >.>

Defensive much?

I can give my opinion on whether a post is bad or not and your post was pretty bad. I did misread some of the post though, I missed where you mentioned Fire being focused on Aisa right after you spoke about Elements. This wasn't as much a defence of Elements as it was an accusation of you not reading the game closely (ironically)

Despite all those words you just posted, you also still haven't explained why you feel so strongly that Aisa is town.

The PEdit was not a reference to you, it was a reference to the post that popped up before I posted. That's pretty clear.

@bbt, I find frog to be charismatic without being patronising, plus I can generally follow their thoughts when town: we've played together a fair bit recently, although I actually don't think they've been scum (they might have been scum once, I'm tired). Elemis, I basically haven't liked any posts at all, their reads were weird and justifying their read on me, when I think I'd posted like twice and one was a likert scale, they weren't able to do, just shrug. Like, even saying 'vibes' would've not bothered me as much.

Alright, you're telling me you've been able to follow Frog so far this game? He has felt pretty chaotic to me so far. I agree with Elements, their reads list pinged and I don't think they have responded to me to explain a single one of them yet...

this is a scum post. poking at things that are surface level and look weird but at their core don't have any particular reason why scum would do them rather than town.

I think the whole song and dance that grib did wrt me and frogster falls into the same category of just performative nonsense.

I don't think you think any of this actually helps you find scum.

VOTE: grib

Realistic attempts to sorts don't look like this, generally, this is what scum posts when they want to look involved in the thread but don't have anything real to push on.

I don't think I like this attack on Grib but I do like following posts coming up so I'm a little conflicted here.

Enchant isn't doing anything they're probably scum.

+1

Scum team is like grib enchant frogsterking or something.

I like 2 of these for scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm pretty sure this is a scum slot.

Low

certainty.

Quoted this for these two sentences. Literally spat my drink out...

Town leans

Bella
Elements
Aisa
Grib
Fire

Null

NM
Enchant

Scum leans

Erinys
Maybe Shea

__

I'll have to look at the rest later

I'm amazed I don't exist in your world given how many of your posts I have quoted and how many times I have tried to engage you. Your reads are bad.

VOTE: BBT

Not a scumread, but vague feeling that he's trying to lie low. Poke poke.

I'm not sure I'm 'lying low', I'm posting when I can at the moment. I keep getting elimmed because I'm not active enough and I've never really had this problem before.

PEdit - Hey Elements, I asked you a question earlier, would you mind going back and answering it?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Aisa

Talk about this?

PEdit - Is that aimed at me TSQ?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

PEdit - Hey Elements, I asked you a question earlier, would you mind going back and answering it?

which one?

ISO me?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think you have your answer.

I didn't even say the defensiveness was AI and anyone who has played games with me will know that I don't think defensiveness is a scum tell whatsoever. I was just surprised that the whole tone of the post was as defensive as it was.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I didn't even use the buzzword of 'overdefensive' that you keep referencing. I said 'Defensive much'. This isn't even a big thing and is certainly not the bulk of what was my response to Eira so why are you focusing on that?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, can you explain why they ping you?

Cheeky scum? I like it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I hate "overdefensive" as a thing that people say in mafia games.

It's a buzzword that means nothing. Townies defend themselves. Sometimes excessively. Overdefensiveness is not alignment indicative in literally any way.

That definitely isn't what you did.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

And clearly my questioning of why you were focusing on such a non aspect of my post was me questioning your alignment.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yes, it is.

Ok, can you answer me this then. If you're not saying that its alignment indicative, what is your point in pointing it out using a buzz word like "overdefensive" which is frequently associated with scumminess? If you're not saying its scummy it seems an awful lot like well poisoning to me.

What are you trying to accomplish in your questions with Eirolox? Because it seems to me a lot like you're grandstanding with no particular purpose towards discerning alignment.

No, it isn't.

Again, the bulk, the first and the main point of this post is the overdefensiveness and that is clearly the aspect of the conversation that I was engaged in.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Is this that thing where no matter what I post I'm flailing? Flapping? Scrambling? etc etc.

This isn't a newbie.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Whether you said overdefensive or defensive much was completely irrelevant to my questions. And yet it was the only thing you chose to respond to in order to try to win the argument.

Because you clearly posted about it numerous times and continued with that line of questioning that was clearly bad.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm now discrediting you? You're throwing out all the buzzwords here. There is no way this is a genuine push.

Let's do this.

VOTE: TSQ

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Even though I get that TSQ is the one who brought up the point first so why wouldn't BBT reply to it etc.

My questioning of Eira was based on him not reading the game closely and asking him why his town read on you was so strong that he was willing to go bat for you even though he said it was based on vibes/gut. That was the bulk of my post which TSQ conveniently ignored.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I didn't call it out and I certainly didn't use it as a way to discern his alignment. Like, you're implying that I would have some sort of problem saying 'Hey you're being super defensive which is scummy' and you're still talking about defensiveness as well even though this new argument you have is based on how defensiveness was never a thing but now it is again.

I was wondering why Eira was so into hard defending Aisa despite the read not being strong and to wonder whether he was a) pocketing a potential townie by defending someone under pressure or b) looking to white knight someone who could potentially get elimmed

Like, that seems super obvious?

What dismissiveness are you referring to?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I see, if that's the case you have made some bad assumptions about both my play and about me as a player.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

My whole point is that you're not using it to discern their alignment and therefore mentioning it serves no purpose other than a) dismissing them and b) poisoning the well. I am asking why you're mentioning it if you're NOT saying its something that gives you insight into alignment. Generally people have a point for what they say in games of mafia. So when you start with "defensive much" it sets the tone for the whole post, given that "defensive" is generally used as an attack in mafia.

To the second point what about your post would actually help you discern that information? It seemed like an attempt to provoke a response that would be emotionally charged and not that relevant. Did you expect Eirolox to be like "oh yeah I'm trying to white knight someone" or something? Did you actually think the question would lead to information about Eirolox's alignment?

Mentioning defensiveness has gotten a ton of responses from players in the past that has helped me gain a read one way or the other. This doesn't work though if somebody starts prodding and poking before said player can even respond. I think if you are scum then Eira has a pretty high possibility of flipping scum too. I think there is a term for this but I can't remember it for the life of me.

The more disagreeable someone is the more they will try to win a pointless argument and the less conscientious someone is the less effort they will put into addressing every aspect of a person's argument *in general.* BBT has never filled out my survey and based on my experience with them I can easily see them being low conscientiousness and high disagreeable. In fact I think both Shea and BBT are probably low conscientiousness and high disagreeable.

BBT is lim bait from my experience and if Shea flips Town they can eat crow for putting themselves on a pedestal for rational townplay. If you two complete my survey I might be able to shed some additional light here.

Pedit

My first thoughts reading Shea's posts were "no that's wrong" and "looks like TvT"

I don't know if this is a defence of me or just theory talk. I take offence to being called lim bait as well.

I can see what bbt was saying though? Tsq kinda jumped on a thing and then was like 'haha you did a thing' when he responded. It felt like siblings more than s v s or s v t. I don't think tsq is scummy for what they did and I feel they believe in it, I still think it's lame and weird.

If you're scum, consider me pocketed. Again.

[quote='In post 421, Aisa"]

[...]
I'm also not crazy about the voteswap to TSQ, since it came pretty closely after BBT was leaning into a soft townread on that slot, but that feeling is pretty weak.

I think that's fairly standard for BBT, I wouldn't read much into it. [/quote]
This makes me uncomfortable, I'm not sure we've played together enough for you to be able to say that?

Definitely don't like how BBT went about that argument (esp. the OMGUS) but this one does also see it as potentially being not very AI. Pretty half and half on if it's scummy or not overall. As for Aisa, this one will probably need to ISO her posts and try and draw a conclusion itself.

What did you dislike? Why do you think it's not AI?

I mean honestly I don't think i defended Asia that hard, i only wondered why ppl were on Asia, cos from the get go i've gotten green vibes. so no, i mean it might be gut read but that doesn't mean it ain't strong.

i don't really see how I came off as defensive, snarky maybe, cos i mean if someone says my post is bad this early i can get prickly, i'd prefer if it if you were just direct and judged me on my actions, like 'i think eira's defense of Asia is bad'. Cos i gave other takes in that post that didn't have have anything to do with Asia or elements/fire so meh you saying the entire thing is iffy just rubbed me wrong. I mean i sorta get the sus on why I feel Asia is town, so i'll try to provide more than 'mah gut'

I disagree. You first asked why everyone was on Aisa (kind of a soft defend) and you then went on to say she feels 'wholly green' to you, which I think is a pretty strong read. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Idk I thought I laid out a pretty strong argument for why BBT is engaging with the game in a disingenuous way, and they have disappeared since that interaction.

Disappeared? I'm sorry, I post when I can. Sometimes it's once a day, sometimes more. Sometimes I get prodded, sometimes I post 25 times a day. Depends on how busy I am and through the week I'm usually pretty busy.

TSQ is attempting to paint every little thing I do as scummy. There is no way this is a genuine push.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can someone talk to me about Fire?

I think Fire is very likely to be town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Nah, just when you do scummy stuff.

Like going to work?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Fire's first 3 posts feel extrenely genuine and I have a hard time seeing them coming from scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Eira, you still haven't explained your Aisa read

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Aisa, is there a spot in your reads for the person who continues to hard town read you with no real reason for it?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Will be getting to this tonight at some point. If not, for sure over the weekend

[BlueBloodedToffee]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: HPE

Just skimming, but 517 is a take I agree with, which I touched lightly on in an earlier post.

I haven’t posted a list yet because I’d probably waffle too much. I’ll post one when I can sit down and take in the thread as a whole.

I could get behind this.

Actually, I changed my mind. I’ll be V/LA for the weekend. Got a lot of plans, but also I want to obsess over the Dead by Daylight event.

Will probably do my reread Sunday or Monday.

TSQ, if you could at least help me understand the HPE townread? Or point to where you talked about it, if you did.

DBD player? We're gonna have to talk post-game!

Reading through the BBT/Shea fight, BBT’s reaction to Shea seems very avoidant of the actual questions Shea’s asking him. I also like the way Shea presents the case, his tone gives off legitimate charisma and annoyance meanwhile BBT comes off as more forced.

BBT's answers to Shea are focused on what was a very poor initial reason for pushing me. As soon as I read that, I didn't bother reading anything else in the post because the first part was so bad.

Why would I bother to engage further when the premise of the post is so far off-base?

I don’t understand BBT strong townread on Bella. Bella’s ISO is some posts complaining about the game state and a bit fairly good content. I don’t see anything that jumps out as a shining beacon of towniness, Bella’s tone seems neither towny nor scummy and her analysis isn’t very deep.

My town read on Bella comes from playing with Bella an awful lot. She was to the point with early reads and I think this is much more likely to come from town!Bella.

Town addresses my questions. Town doesn't spend their whole post harping on whether they said "defensive much" or "over defensive" while ignoring the rest of the post.

It's not 100% because scum tells never are but I think its more than enough for a day 1 wagon.

Town get annoyed at people making bad pushes. Town get annoyed when people twist what they say or misrep it completely, too.

But also, uh, you're right, maybe I'm being a bit too conservative. I don't know if this does anything since maybe I have killed any pretense of pressure with this post and my previous one, but have this as a show of good faith:
VOTE: BBT

I guess BBT said he'll be looking at the game soon, so let's say that I will commit to seeing what he comes up with and decide whether to leave my vote here or not based on what he says ^^

P-edit: oh dear you guys are prolific

You can take your vote off now, thanks.

VOTE: solway

Solway is low posting scum writing longer catchup posts to try and get Townread.

Low

certainty.

This is a bad vote.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

If anyone wants to talk, I'm here.

A little tired, and a little drunk, but reckon I can hold a conversation!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I am fully caught up. My most confident scumread right now is BBT.

Umm, what?

Don't like that

Talk about your scum read on me, would you?

So the argument can be represented syllogistically like this

1) Scum are more likely to focus on winning the argument than discerning alignment.
2) In a post with multiple points to answer scum will be more likely to focus on the easiest points to dismiss in an attempt to discredit.
3) Town will tend to do the opposite.
4) BBT didn't address the rest of my points at all and focused exclusively on the deliberately weak one
5) Therefore BBT is more likely to be scum.

Which of those points do you disagree with, exaclty?

1. Town can just as easily be focused on winning an argument - it's the whole point of this game.
2. Town will focus on the part of a post that they consider the worst. If the whole premise of the post is off-base, why engage the rest?
3. Not true
4. BBT focused on the point that was flat out false.
5. Therefore you can't discern the difference between play-style and AI posting.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

If you don't think those posts are you pushing me then I don't know what to say...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

If you think "please explain your reasoning for this because I don't like it and I don't like your tone" is pushing then honestly I question if you've ever played mafia before.

If you don't think that not liking a post and not liking someone's tone doesn't equal a scum read then I have to ask if you ever have played Mafia before?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Again, that's not what I said.

You keep doing that

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm voting you for a horrific push on me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Bella and Fire are town. Grib and Solway probably, too.

Frog and HPE probably scum

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Like, in what world do town go 'Hey, they guy is using really bad reasoning to scum read me so he must be town'

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah but then after my flip you die so

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Reasoning for what?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah but then after my flip you die so

So then why would I be doing this as scum, again? You're not so good at logic, are you?

You don't expect to die, obviously. But you're in so deep now that you can't back out

[BlueBloodedToffee]

literally any of your reads.

I have done. Are you reading the game?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You must not be reading.

Nice buzzowrds. You do that a lot, too.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

When this push is looked on in hindsight with the information of my flip, there is no way you survive.

Everyone is wrapped up in this because there is very little else going on so 'fuck it, lim BBT'. It's happening a lot lately, it's cool. But you've dug so deep that you don't survive on my flip.

Why would I repost what I have already posted to someone who is a) scum reading me and b) not the least bit interested in what I have to say?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It's also funny how you keep trying to parrot back things I've said about your posting to you to try to score cheap points or make me mad or something but you don't really seem to know what any of them mean so it just reads like you're speaking gibberish when you do it.

It's a riot.

I have no idea what this means

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I have done

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hey Grib, how are you?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Again, you wouldn't expect to die, you would expect the lim to go through but your reasoning be strong enough (which is what you believe, right?) that all would be forgiven and you could go on to drive another mislim. You feel em?

PEdit - You're right, Grib. It is fun though. Do you want something from me?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Aw man, I'm playing it right now! 1.5m bloodpoints to spend, then going to bed!

I like your read on HPE. We should do something with that

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I should have, I kind of want my vote on TSQ though for ego reasons incase I get elimmed, you know?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Its fine we'll end up doing the stupid thing that always happens where everyone waffles around for 6 days and then panics and lims a lurker.

I agree with this.

Bad strategy and way too often days are dragged on for longer than they need to be.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'll help you but I don't want to wagon myself.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Frog is a lurker?

God damn. That's a hot take.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I can explain scum reads, no problem. I just don't explain town reads very often because I see very little point.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Who are they?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I can't really get a handle on Aisa.

She feels very waffley, kind of reminds me of when Bella is scum. But her tone doesn't come across as scummy so I just throw my hands in the air and say I'll sort her later

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I have no interest in killing off a lurker Day 1, as much as I'd like to be rid of them.

BBT is probably going to be the consensus, and

there's a reasonable chance he's scum

. I'm nowhere near as confident as you seem to be.

Fuck. That was a kick to the ball sack.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Again, I agree. I just felt like jumping in thread and having some fun with TSQ. He is very much Mr. Serious and I enjoyed playing on it. Didn't really serve any ither purpose than for my own enjoyment.

My bad.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'll put some proper thoughts in thread tomorrow when it's not 4am and I can think straight.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Umm, 14 out of 21 people scum read me in a recent large (I had 0 town reads) and I was town.

Just saying.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I've never claimed to be a good player.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Shea and BBT's arguments are alot to unravel in terms of where logic begins and personality ends, but the core of the matter is that BBT is just, yeah kinda scummy. So here's to less flopping around like fish and more pushing votes and wagons.

Talk about what I've done that makes me scum? Interesting that your vote finally comes after I start looking to potentially vote you.

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

Scum. Opportunistic votes are opportunistic.

Also I was in that lost game, I'd rather not elim bbt day one

What does this mean, Bella? Can you expand a little?

It's a bit hard to understand some of this post but, basically: Only a handful of the players are particularly active, and they all did not particularly agree with eachother on a wagon at the time (this has sorta changed since). So this one, in the interest of actually getting something pushed today, something it agrees with already, votes BBT. Frogster is still high in it's scumleans, and it intends to push that letter tomorrow as it wants to stick with the BBT wagon, to both actually get a wagon going and because it does sus BBT. That's it's logic there.

This is scummy - a great way to absolve responsibility for being on a wagon. Again, this vote came after my brief conversation with Grib regarding voting HPE. I'm not sure if both Eira and HPE can be scum though because they were pretty close together when piling on my wagon and that seems less likely to come from two scum slots.

I don’t understand BBT strong townread on Bella. Bella’s ISO is some posts complaining about the game state and a bit fairly good content. I don’t see anything that jumps out as a shining beacon of towniness, Bella’s tone seems neither towny nor scummy and her analysis isn’t very deep.

My town read on Bella comes from playing with Bella an awful lot. She was to the point with early reads and I think this is much more likely to come from town!Bella.

Understood. I’ll sheep this read with low certainty.

Like, in what world do town go 'Hey, they guy is using really bad reasoning to scum read me so he must be town'

I really don’t think you’re engaging with TSQ’s actual reasons for voting you? TSQ just isn’t voting you because of your overdefensive post, he’s voting you because of your bad reaction to his pointing out that overdefensive is a bad scumreading tool.
VOTE: BBT
I’m not fully caught up but I’m willing to vote here for now.

These two posts one after the other have blown my mind and makes me want to reeval my town read of Solway. What is going on here?

I don't need to engage with TSQ because the premise of his push was awful and he knew that. If you push someone for bad reasons, you should expect push back. TSQ tried to set me up with some 'gotcha' moment, it's standard scum play.

What I really want to know is why BBT’s read on Bella meta-based.

I know, I kind of hate it but it is what it is. I have played with Bella a fair bit and I suppose some meta creeps in whether I want it to or not. I find Bella quite fence-sitty as scum and a lot more to the point as town. She could easily use this knowledge against me to fool me (which is why I don't like meta) but I'm good with that read for D1 at least. I should also emphasise that I have 0 confidence in being able to read Bella, I don't know whether that's because she always seems to be scum and I instinctively want to town read her, or what, but yeah.

Eiralox could be scum. #hottake

Yup

Bella isn't as fence sitting as i originally thought reading that last post. I don't like how few reads she seems to have any committed to but i think thats a problem with a general lack of not being as engaged to read the thread and me seeing "the game is unreadable" and getting a little annoyed reading that.

Anyways would also support the HPE wagon right now.

How do you find Eira? I find almost every single post of his to be like 'could be this, could be that and I don't really know'. He doesn't actually commit to anything, outside of Aisa being unshakeably town which he still hasn't explained.

Ok why? I've already questioned sol's and grib's logic on 517, so idk why u think their reasons re: Erynis there are solid?

Because I don't have a particularly solid read on the slot and some pressure might help with that. Since then, I really don't like their recent posting regarding voting me and their reasoning for it.

From the start this has been about my response, and your reaction to it. I admitted that yeah i cAMe off as bit defensive there, so your initial sorta sarcastic reply i can chalk up to a knee-jerk to my... cockiness, acerbism, i guess? So one of the few places i've felt in line with bella, excepting their defense of Asia, is when they said you and the status quo sorta feel like siblings fighting, but i'm not even gonna consider classing such thread clutter as TvT tho. Where i've tried to follow the tsq/toffee chaos my brain started feeling gooey, so meh. I think the one thing that stands out to me is you calling Eira/Quo, cos i never got the feel that they defended me and i don't think you adressed this when i asked you about it.

They defending you by attacking me.

there are a whole lota meta reads this game, guess i'll have to get used to it.... hopefully things even out later once folk come to grip with each other but whatever, to each their own I guess. Basically you and bella have been townreading each other pretty strongly thus far, and i'm not sure how i feel about it. I'm pretty much on board with sol that bella's posts don't feel particularly towny or scummy to me, early on they felt sussy but they've made a few points that have some logic behind 'em so eh. I think in terms of engagement i'll definitely place them above N_M and Enchant, but town?

I get you've asked me to explain on Asia, i'm coming to that, but what i'm looking for here is some expansion on bella, not merely 'meta and early reads' but recent Bella as well

As I said earlier, my read on Bella isn't super strong but it's good enough for D1. Now, Aisa please?

Bbt i've had a few moments we're i've felt they were being sincere under pressure, i struggled to follow what they're saying at times but I guess that goes for TSQ as well, but on general tsq carries on in a more methodical and town-seeming manner. I think the main thing on toffee is that strange tsq/eira pairing, and maybe strange vibes from asking me to talk about asia? which im coming to hopefully so meh. I earlier had a hunch on bbt/elements when they defended you(or i thought they did) so that's a pairing i won;t discount rn.

You're really struggling to explain this town read, huh?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: HPE

[BlueBloodedToffee]

HPE, in both 426 and 469 you're far from decisive in your read.

In 426, you say 'but this one does also see it as potentially being not very AI. Pretty half and half on if it's scummy or not overall.'

In 469, you say 'Mostly think that TSQ has something of a point. Not a decisive one, but something of one' as well as 'Your actual defense, to this one, feels like it could be either a town or scum defense, so it doesn't think this adds up to too much in it's book, for now.'

Is there something that happened to significantly increase the certainty of your read?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Right, and I asked why your read had developed into a vote and you linked posts from 14 pages ago as if that somehow correlates to how your read developed. You haven't answered my question.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Right, OK. But 'How' did I look bad and why is it bad = scum and not bad = town? Like, what specifically makes me scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Aisa is town because Eira is scum if anyone is interested

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Solway

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Right, OK. But 'How' did I look bad and why is it bad = scum and not bad = town? Like, what specifically makes me scum?

Tone, reaction, vibes, etcetera. This one simply thinks you're acting like scum in it's eyes based on the what it's seen from your bouts with TSQ. If you wanna argue against that, go ahead, but it probably ain't really gonna change this one's opinion on you and the situation.

This is just more buzzwords, you're very clearly struggling to explain this read.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

And I have repeatedly said I know WHAT I did but I want you to explain WHY that makes me scum...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Because i don't think Solway is mafia.

Who do you think is Mafia?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Snowing you?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Oh shit, I'm not down with the kids.

I feel like you should know I'm town by now? The pattern is BBT is town read, he is scum. BBT is scum read, he is town. You know how the game goes.

I feel OK that you're town as you have been a lot more direct than in our recent games in terms of engaging people and stating reads

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I disagree

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That's not what I'm talking about though.

Progression on reads is a completely different thing to explaining why a read exists.

I agree with pretty much everything you just said

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can you talk about why you so strongly town read Aisa in the early game as opposed to posts that literally came hundreds of posts after you stated your read?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I will have time for this during the weekend. Also, got a week off work now so will be much more active over the next week or so.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Welp, was vaguely hoping the scum read on TSQ would dissuade a shot there. That sucks.

This isn't a great entry post. Why did you think your one read on TSQ would make a difference? Why would your scum read on TSQ make any more of an impact than mine?

BBT, can you tell me why you think Eira is scum?

Sure, I don't see him taking any real stances. I have scum read him pretty much from the get go and nothing has changed. Almost all of his posts are like 'Could be this, could be that, no conclusion'. I also found his early town read of your slot weird, and unless I am missing it, he still hasn't explained it. As well as this, I find myself wondering why Fire doesn't have a problem with Eira's posting considering he is accusing Bella of being wishy-washy when I think Bella has been more straight forward with her reads this game than she has previously.

Kind of paranoid that BBT has been buddying her.

Talk about this more?

Welp, my reads are trash. I didn't want to think all of the people pinging me day one were town but yeah. My reads aren't normally that bad.

This isn't a great post Bella. I don't know if you have on future pages, but if not, could you explain where you're currently at in terms of reads?

Ill just go with enchant/aisa/grib are townie for reactions/posts after flips.
No need to think hard this early day 2.

Talk about how Grib's reaction gives you a town read?

However, I do think we might've flubbed it hard by not killing BBT.

VOTE: BBT

Umm, reasons?

Actually, I'll try an experiment.

BBT, would you be able to link your most recent towngame where you gave a read that was mostly, if not entirely, based on meta? Bonus points if someone scumread you for it. Extra bonus points if that someone was scum.

I would imagine that there have been a couple of games lately where I have made a read on Bella specifically using meta. Honestly though, I really can't be bothered to go trolling through all my recent posts to find it.

there was deffo scum inElements/ hpe/tsq/frog/n_m/maybe fire.

I want to look again at

eir

, who was another slot I wavered on.

You just named half the playerlist, Bella.

Let's vote Eira?

VOTE: BBT
This is scum and I don't think anyone can convince me otherwise

Reasons?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

felt scum, voted. i have no idea what you're trying to say about Bellaphant's not hammer btw. You going after their 'quintessential scum' post? Where they say they had shitty reads?

And you being irked by bella's not hammer.... what the dune is up with that? thru the nigh i looked at that and really didn't see why scum! Bella would be posting it at all. I'm starting to really want to know what you think about N_M and Enchant end of day as well, cos I really don't get u digging your fangs into someone who wasn;t even on Sol. Your above post bout Bella to me is just a mishmash of weak, tenious logic and i'm not even sure why you raised these point tbh.

Eira finally takes a stance. Although, I don't remember Eira town reading Bella so this defence of her comes from nowhere.

The read is 3 fold. Terrible reaction to TSQ's test (and you cannot argue it wasn't bad because it was), the night kills, and wagonomics.
At least half of the wagon on bbt was town at all points. With N_M and enchant in the game it was effectively 6 to lim. Me, Grib, Aisa, and Eiralox were all on the E-1 wagon with 2 confirmed town. The scum team is not Grib, Eiralox, Aisa. I think there was a max of 1 scum on that wagon. At the end of the day there were at least 4 town willing to vote BBT. Scum push that. That's easy momentum to push a mis-lim.

I also think there were at least 2 scum on the SF wagon at the end.

Why was the reaction bad to TSQ? And if it was bad, what makes it scummy. Because bad and scummy are two different things. Can't argue against TSQ kill, that obviously looks bad for me and I think NKA is vastly underrated so whatever, kind of annoying but is what it is.

Wagon analysis is basic - all town on a wagon does not equal scum being wagoned. Not to mention that Grib/Eira could easily be two scum on my wagon. As could you. Who are the 4 town you're referring to who were willing to vote me?

Like, for my wagon, the only person I am confident on being town is Aisa. I'm equally confident that Eira is scum, too.

I might be wrong about bbt, but I have also seen him mis limmed as town a lot recently. I did feel like his engagement with me was genuine, but his lack of content today is worrying. I think Eir is town because of our chat about the game being 'unreadable': I said it, they took exception, they said something actually similar, I explained my actual position and we came to a consensus.

My lack of content? I hadn't had any time to post, you have played a lot with me recently Bella, I feel like you should know what my current activity levels are like? That feels shady, especially as it looks like there are a few people lining up on me Today. Can we talk about Eira? What do you think about my posts on them being wishy-washy and not really taking any stances? And their defence of you and attack on Fire?

#1072 looks like a post I would write as scum.

And that makes Aisa scum because?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

#209 seems to be a meta question then a survey.... what's ` pocketty` bout that? I admit 556 pinged me a bit at the time but I was very emphatic with 458 so what exactly are you trying to say here? Not seeing it.

556 pinged me (could be this), but I was emphatic with 458 (could be that) so end with a random question that doesn't really achieve much...

So many of your posts look like this.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm reasonably confident that scum are in Eira/Frog/Grib/Elements. I can't say I am confident in Enchant being town but they feel town and I don't have a clue how to read NM.

Fire, Aisa and Bella are reasonably strong town reads, in that order.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Because you have conclusions and Eira doesn't.

Also, you're town because he is scum. He TMI'd with his read on you and was unable to explain it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hey NM,

Can you play like last game please and engage?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I guess I actually have to do this...

why even are ya'll on Asia?

while Asia has felt pretty much wholly green to me after a few one-liners exchanged.

Early defence of Aisa, strong enough town read to question the wagon and go to bat for her. 'Wholly green' further implies this is a somewhat of a strong read.

I question this in 246 and from there we have;

only got my Asia feel

Asia feels town and that's that. This early I like to trust my gut, so i'm a happy sheep >.>

No explanation. Gut read, a gut read that was so strong you were willing to question her wagon and defend her. Why is this read so strong? Where did it come from?

i don't care what you think about my posts. when i got reads i wanna expand on, ill expand on 'em, and i'll do so for Asia as a start.

This is you not explaining the Aisa read.

447 - Somehow messed the quote up so linked the post. Here you say that you don't think you defended Aisa that hard which I kind of agree with. But you did defend her, against a sizeable wagon and that seems too strong for that point of the game for a simple gut read. You then continue to go on and say that, actually, your Aisa read is a strong read despite only being gut and that you understand me questioning the read so you will try to expand further. Note: read still not explained.

as i said earlier, i get that i haven't really yet posted aboout why i feel Asia is town.

but i'll try to go over their latest posts after i've gotten to expanding bout Asia.

Still not explained it.

Eira, you still haven't explained your Aisa read

yeah i said i'll go over it. i don;t rush these things so don;t rush me, anyway, i'll be trying to get into it tonight cos like with enchant's recent stunner of a post, your sus and fire camping on Asia i definitely will substantiate my feels, but right now imma take a break.

Same again. You're so reluctant to explain what is apparently a strong read of yours.

I get you've asked me to explain on Asia, i'm coming to that

We're now up to post 760 and still no explanation. I questioned you in 246. Why is this read taking so long?

Then comes 879, the explanation for the Aisa read but there is a major, major problem with this. I questioned your town read in 246, which means that you cannot use posts 499, 504 and 587 to explain this read because these posts did not exist at the time of questioning.

I want to know why you were so strongly town reading Aisa that you were willing to defend them against a wagon and question the validity of it. You did this defence in 192 which means I need posts from before 192 to explain the read.

I'll wait.

VOTE: Eira

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Aisa, you've been pocketed.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

[
Yeah im tired discussing my feel on you with toffee, what I said d1 still stands so where at first I humored them, now im just going to flat out ignore them if they keep tunneling into me like this.

Theyve been like hyper focused on it d1 and now going all out with the manure barrage that im faking it. In general if someone wants to talk in circles with me I wont oblige them, if bbt isnt satisfied that im sticking with my gutread, too bad. I just havent felt you approaching things with any ulterior motive at all, so idk if this is scum toffee or town toffee pushing me and pushing me on this but imo i've already said my say.

I feel pretty close to locktowning you, so the only reason I see for me to be talking bout my read is if it changes and I really don't feel like thats gonna happen.

I think you can say I'm tunneling you atm, sure. But to say I was 'hyper-focused' on it D1 is a huge stretch. I was, and still am, discussing and engaging multiple things with multiple players so you spewing 'omg stop tunneling me' is absolutely not a thing.

You said yourself you would answer it. Why the change of heart? If people can't see the repositioning from Eira here then I don't know what else I can say.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I see.

If it helps, I town read Bella after she was tracked to a kill. And then defended her. I have a tendency to just town read her for some reason.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think you're finding something scummy in anything I do and I just don't think I want to deal with that.

Do you disagree that Eira has shifted his position?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

He didn't just question the wagon - he stated he had a town read on you and then proceeded to question it. My whole problem is a) where did this read come from, b) why was it so strong and now c) why is it so damn difficult for him to explain?

You may not need a strong read to question a wagon - but Eira himself said that his read was strong so I would like some justification for such a strong early game read given his actions of wanting to push back on the wagon.

If wagons are so fickle, why did he feel the need to defend you? You have made what I feel is a stretch of an assumption in that you think Eira was talking about later information gathered. Why would I care about that? I am specifically asking about an early game read - I don't care what got posted 15 pages after the fact.

The posts quoted are not just showing Eira not explaining the read, but the fact he keeps saying that he will explain the read and doesn't do it. Constant dodging. He also says he understands the suspicion (appeasement?) so I'm a little confused as to how you're not seeing it.

My case is this;

Eira town reads you based on gut (and says the read is strong)
I ask him to explain this read
He refuses to explain it but says he will get to it eventually before continually dodging
When he does finally get around to it he tries to use later posts that didn't exist to justify an early read and that's not how it works
Then he finally gives up because he can't explain it and refuses to engage

[BlueBloodedToffee]

He said he would explain the early town read on you.
He hasn't.
He has now refused to explain it.

How is that not a change in his position?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Elements, wanna vote Frog?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I also have outstanding questions addressed to you

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can you expand a little on your Eira and Grib reads?

I don't think I have liked any of Frog's posting this game, especially D1. There is plenty in my ISO.

Aisa is town because Eira is scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Frog

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can you link to what you're specifically talking about with regards to Eira?

I think Aisa's flip-flopping on me is quite townie. I think it's a genuine attempt to read me and the only part that pinged me was the 'I'll never be able to read BBT' as I don't think we have played together all that much and so I'm not sure where that would come from. Felt like she was leaving the door open to vote me at any point which was a little icky.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think it makes Frog less likely scum and you more likely scum

Why?

Aisa, can you talk about those partner equities? Also, why doesn't Scum!Elements back track a scum read on Scum!Frog when a wagon picks up and why do you think it's more likely for Frog to be bussed if he is scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Sure.

Assume you and Frog are scum: you're both in an iffy spot today, it's fairly likely the elim will be between the two of you. In a situation like this I think it's quite natural for scum to bus, your jump onto Frog is perfectly timed to be just that. You were both on the Solway wagon.

You and Bella: if Bella is scum I think she is softly" trying to mess with that townblock I was talking about by saying she feels iffy about me, Grib, Eira, etc. and you're "enabling" her big time. Also, you are kind of a meme and it would be neat if you two were the same alignment.

I disagree that Frog and myself were/are in iffy spots today. I think Frog is *now* in an iffy spot and my vote is a good part of the reason for that. Can you tell me how the timing of my vote is more likely to be a bus? Can you also tell me how both of us being on the Solway wagon makes us have higher scum equity as well? You're saying a lot of things that don't really make sense here.

I can't even make sense of the Bella stuff - how am I enabling her? I'm kind of a meme?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Meh, my town read on Aisa is kind of dying.

I'm starting to wonder if that early town read from Eira on Aisa is scum/scum but that seems absolutely wild.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

On the subject of Eira, if anyone can tell me a single stance he has this game outside of his town read on Aisa I'll be impressed.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Who do you think would have been a likely elim had you not voted Frog? I can't see any other wagon as likely to go through, but I suppose I may be biased.

Assuming you and Frog were in an iffy spot, the timing for your vote would have been a typical bus because you would have tested a couple other wagons (me, Eira) first, seen they weren't gaining traction, then resigned yourself to bussing for the towncred.

The Day is still young, I think it's a bit premature to say the Day was destined to go this way or that.

I tested your wagon? I'm pretty sure I was town reading you and fairly heavily at that as well so that's just not true? Do you think the Frog wagon was inevitable when he had two votes alongside both myself and Bella? Because that's when I voted him.

That may just be a me thing, whenever I think about Solway I get this vision of you and Frog plotting the mislim in the scum PT, can't explain it better than that.

Yeah, this does nothing for me at all.

You talk to each other and ask each other for opinions, which makes it look like you may be giving each other a platform and working together to achieve miselims.

*You two* are kind of a meme because you often talk about each other. This isn't a serious point, it would be wholesome if you were scum together, but the RNG speaketh not in those terms.

OK, I kind of get that. I think I speak with Bella differently to almost any other player on this site because we have played together an awful lot and go back a fair few years. I think Bella speaks similarly to a lot of other people in the same way she does with me though so, meh, not sure on that side.

They supported the Solway wagon.

VOTE: Solway

** This is -1 **

Yeah I'm not feeling this VT claim, something major is off in Sol's tone these past few posts. I'll be trying my best to be back in 5 hours, hectic morning here.

Can you show me his support before he joined the wagon with this post?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

BBT ur read change on aisa is pretty jarring

In what way?

The quotes above just look like desperate scum flailing (1113 and 1114 especially) and then looking for an easy target to pull down with him. BBT tries harder than I've ever seen them try as Town with their Eira case and then apparently gives up instantly and starts shopping for a Frog wagon instead (1118.) Out of all the player's voting me, BBT looks the least like they actually believe I'm scum. It also looks like it was receiving support from Bella (1122) which caused BBT to vote me so that's making me lean Town on Bella off a BBT scum flip.

Umm, what? Firstly, what about my posting is 'desperate' and 'flailing' and secondly why are you acting like I'm in some sort of desperate situation? The whole wording of that sentence is nasty.

You were in the LOST game, you definitely saw me casing numerous people throughout so again, that's just flat out false. Am I supposed to continue pushing Eira when not a single person agrees with what I have to say about him? I'm just wasting my time. Your wagon had momentum with Bella voting on it and I have been fairly critical of you from pretty much the start of the game so why would I not join? I think you'll find I was one of the first people in this game to start scumreading you so for you to say that my vote is the least believable is laughable. You showed 0 interest in engaging with me on D1 despite my numerous questions/quoting of your posts.

Also, there is like nothing about me inBBT's iso but he says something like "you can read it all in my iso" (1123.) I just checked his iso to verify and there's nothing about his frog case there and his pivot onto me in 1118 looks as opportunistic on a reread as it did at first glance.

202 is where it starts.
Continues in 244
In 270 you say 'Good questions BBT, I'll get back you later'...I've seen this somewhere before...
I try to engage you again in 345 even though despite your heavy post count you still didn't address any of my previous issues
After this, I get heavily sidetracked by TSQ and you literally respond to nothing that I have posted to you
635 I again state my disliking for your play (a vote on Solway)
648 Incase it wasn't clear, I flat out call you scum.
Then D1 concludes. So like, what the fuck?

Yeah I think BBT is scum with like

moderate

certainty now and I think you're scum with

low

certainty.

I would love for you to expand on this read because you have literally said jack shit about me or engaged with me the entire game. Aside from my post regarding Eira, you have barely even acknowledged my existence in the game despite me quoting/trying to engage with you on multiple occasions.

No, because admittedly I don't remember them offering much prior support. You wondered about any stances Eira had except their town read of me and I told you about one, that's all. I'm not going to argue it's not an

opportunistic

stance, because it could be.

Because they didn't. They opportunistically hopped on a wagon with almost 0 reasoning until the actual post that they voted and prior to that didn't have much of an opinion on Solway at all. You don't see a problem with that?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why have you unvoted Frog?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

On the subject of Eira, if anyone can tell me a single stance he has this game outside of his town read on Aisa I'll be impressed.

Bellaphant town

As far as I can see, he said she had made 1 'town indicative post'. Given he had an earlier scum read on the slot I'm not sure that one post would equal a town read?

Happy to be proven wrong if you can find more than I did in his ISO.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You planning on answering a single thing I have asked you?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

If you want to sort me talk to me, not about me.

Scum struggling to engage with the game without someone providing an angle for them...

Just incase anyone was wondering.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yet another player who refuses to engage.

Not really sure what to do this game.

Frog, Eira, Elements all refusing to engage/discuss anything with me. If that's the scum team it would be simultaneously hilarious but also absolutely infuriating.

Everyone else seems cool with what is happening though so I guess I just die quietly and then wait to see all the reevals on D3?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Enchant are you town reading Frog?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I know, that's why I asked for clarity.

Is there a reason you didn't 'hammer'?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I see, can you give me your thoughts on Eira real quick?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Wait, you think I am scum with Eira?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Umm, OK.

That's kind of worrying

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I was only VT anyway so no harm done.

Reads haven't changed since last stated, good luck town!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Not really sure why I was elimmed either but it seems to be happening a lot lately.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Damnnnnn, Frog and Eira coasted!

Good work and GGs everyone!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

He is a Doc tbf

[BlueBloodedToffee]

If y'all had of listened to me we could have elimmed Eira!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Onto important things though, you play DBD Grib... Survivor, killer or both?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ah OK, not been playing too long then?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Aisa, you've been pocketed.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

This was such a weird game

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Paranoid of Eira for all of time now haha

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I wouldn't put too much blame on yourself. For various reasons, Eira seemed pretty widely town read in the game so it's not on you by any means

[BlueBloodedToffee]

FWIW, we were saying in scum PT that town were super sharp. So many people were on the money and it didn't look good for us.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ah nice man, I love DBD. I actually got it free on the PS and it's prob the best free game I have ever played.