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[geraintm]

'Ello 'ello 'ello.....

God this game took ages to start, i was observing the Queue for ages waiting.

i think i recognise most of the people's names. i would suggest (from past experience) that if there is a cop type role in the game that Crescent gets checked night 1, they cannot be allowed as scum to get too far into the game.

I'll check in during the day, as I can. Just expect more from me at night!

Vampire confirmed, gotcha

Anyways, here we have gone from the 2nd to a 3rd

[geraintm]

'Ello 'ello 'ello.....

God this game took ages to start, i was observing the Queue for ages waiting.

i think i recognise most of the people's names. i would suggest (from past experience) that if there is a cop type role in the game that Crescent gets checked night 1, they cannot be allowed as scum to get too far into the game.

Why? Are they deepwolf type player?

I'll check in during the day, as I can. Just expect more from me at night!

Vampire confirmed, gotcha

Anyways, here we have gone from the 2nd to a 3rd

If I remember right, vampire isn’t a normal role?

that pink is an awful colour to read.

i've only played with them as town, and so far they have been a competent player (i was scared of them when mafia) but their posting style tends to dominate the game if left unchecked, they post long posts that are usually well formed and if they are scum and they are not checked by night action they will be very hard to vote off late in the game. i cannot think of a time they were ever noticeably under pressure of being voted out, so if there is someone around who can check their alignment it would be one of the first places to go - certainly what i would be doing

[geraintm]

What do you mean by dominate the game. I've played with them and yes you're right about the posting style but I don't know that they dominate.

if they wantt o, then they can heavily dictate the shape of a day, and they are really hard to go up against. in the games ive played with them, if they were scum i think late game they would be hard to vote off, so i'd like them sorted earlier than that if possible.
just my suggestion....

and that colour is much better. i have some sort of light blue as the backdrop

[geraintm]

Nightmare scenario would be geraintm/crscent/malcom

This gets a vote
VOTE: galron

[geraintm]

What do you mean by dominate the game. I've played with them and yes you're right about the posting style but I don't know that they dominate.

if they wantt o, then they can heavily dictate the shape of a day, and they are really hard to go up against. in the games ive played with them, if they were scum i think late game they would be hard to vote off, so i'd like them sorted earlier than that if possible.
just my suggestion....

and that colour is much better. i have some sort of light blue as the backdrop

So you're pushing for their flip early on. Is that what you mean by sorted? Why not try to read them?

I don't want them dead. If they are town they will be useful. But I want someone to check them at night so we don't have to worry about them

[geraintm]

Nightmare scenario would be geraintm/crscent/malcom

This gets a vote
VOTE: galron

I don't particularly like that post either. It feels like it's intending to be solvey by putting a sort of grand, almost conspiratorial idea out there but it's also not saying much at the same time. I feel like I have a tendency to scumread Galron a lot early game though - maybe a style thing, but will keep an eye on their play.

Nah, it was a good post. If scum was me and Crescent and A N Other I think we would walk this game.

But you brown nosing my vote....VOTE: malcolm tucker

[geraintm]

I don't particularly like that post either. It feels like it's intending to be solvey by putting a sort of grand, almost conspiratorial idea out there but it's also not saying much at the same time. I feel like I have a tendency to scumread Galron a lot early game though - maybe a style thing, but will keep an eye on their play.

I misread this the first time. My mind replaced post with vote.

I didn't care for the vote, you were saying you didn't like Galron's post. I don't think this changes anythinmg for me though.

What exactly about my vote did you not like?
You didn't care for it....I want to know why.

[geraintm]

I don't particularly like that post either. It feels like it's intending to be solvey by putting a sort of grand, almost conspiratorial idea out there but it's also not saying much at the same time. I feel like I have a tendency to scumread Galron a lot early game though - maybe a style thing, but will keep an eye on their play.

I misread this the first time. My mind replaced post with vote.

I didn't care for the vote, you were saying you didn't like Galron's post. I don't think this changes anythinmg for me though.

What exactly about my vote did you not like?
You didn't care for it....I want to know why.

[geraintm]

How so?

LOL, okay, so what's your plan to solve this game?

I REALLY don’t like this.

VOTE: NJAC

Naughty point for the Prof.
fake outrage

[geraintm]

What exactly about my vote did you not like?
You didn't care for it....I want to know why.

I don't know any history here, but what makes someone speculating about their "nightmare scum team" scum?

nothing at all. and who says i think they are scum?

[geraintm]

How so?

LOL, okay, so what's your plan to solve this game?

I REALLY don’t like this.

VOTE: NJAC

I also don’t like

Prokens

's posts. For a player who joined 2008, they're asking some obvious type of questions. I see it as

playing dumb card as scum

.

Recently

NJAC

,

Kitty

and I completed a newbie game (Newbie-2100) where scum!

Kitty

was playing dumb townie and

NJAC

caught him for that.

VOTE: Prokens

i dont follow what the quoted post has to do with the rest of it?

[geraintm]

Nightmare scenario would be geraintm/crscent/malcom

This gets a vote
VOTE: galron

Why?

i have vaguely stated my reasons in my first post why this deserved a vote

[geraintm]

Nightmare scenario would be geraintm/crscent/malcom

This gets a vote
VOTE: galron

I don't particularly like that post either. It feels like it's intending to be solvey by putting a sort of grand, almost conspiratorial idea out there but it's also not saying much at the same time. I feel like I have a tendency to scumread Galron a lot early game though - maybe a style thing, but will keep an eye on their play.

Nah, it was a good post. If scum was me and Crescent and A N Other I think we would walk this game.

But you brown nosing my vote....VOTE: malcolm tucker

Don't understand your vote here, I like

Malcolm

's pov though...

i realise now i am not sure if Malcolm Tucker was saying "I don't like this post" about mine or Galron. when i first posted, i thought they were agreeing with me that Galron's was a poor post. I'm not so sure they meant that now.

so i voted Malcolm because i thought they were apparently joining me in saying Galron's post was poor.

[geraintm]

Nightmare scenario would be geraintm/crscent/malcom

This gets a vote
VOTE: galron

I don't particularly like that post either. It feels like it's intending to be solvey by putting a sort of grand, almost conspiratorial idea out there but it's also not saying much at the same time. I feel like I have a tendency to scumread Galron a lot early game though - maybe a style thing, but will keep an eye on their play.

Nah, it was a good post. If scum was me and Crescent and A N Other I think we would walk this game.

But you brown nosing my vote....VOTE: malcolm tucker

Don't understand your vote here, I like

Malcolm

's pov though...

i realise now i am not sure if Malcolm Tucker was saying "I don't like this post" about mine or Galron. when i first posted, i thought they were agreeing with me that Galron's was a poor post. I'm not so sure they meant that now.

so i voted Malcolm because i thought they were apparently joining me in saying Galron's post was poor.

I was saying I didn't particularly like Galron's post, you are correct there.

Sure, it'd be a nightmare scenario if the three of us were all scum together, but it seems very unlikely from early posting - certainly I feel like the way you/Crescent have played so far means you are unlikely to be aligned. "We should be careful of this player," without an actual scumread could hint at alignment but I don't think you'd be urging for a proper check if Crescent was a teammate.

I think you're town though. Your vote for me is misguided but it shows you're not just wanting to necessarily get town players onside when they're agreeing with you (or when they think they are at least).

then i am happy with my vote on you.

me and crescent can certainly be the same alignment - we can both be town. i know we are not both scum, and there is the chance that they could be scum - hence me wanting someone to check them over.

whilst i am thinking about it, i wouldnt mind being checked out too. no one ever does and so i always get to the end game with question marks over me.

[geraintm]

I'm not sure I get what geraintm is doing.

its ok, i knew what i was doing....

[geraintm]

Yeah I'm not real sure what trap geraintm was trying to set but he seems to have had something in mind.

anyone who decided to pipe up after my vote on you and said they found you sus, well, i just have that down as weird sucking up and i dont like it. not one bit

[geraintm]

I don't want them dead. If they are town they will be useful. But I want someone to check them at night so we don't have to worry about them

This makes sense so okay.

But let me ask this geraintm are there any others you feel this way about?[/quote]

nope, just been in alot of games with them lately so that is why they come to mind

[geraintm]

I'm not sure I get what geraintm is doing -- I think the vote on me was a reaction test not for me but for others? Regardless there seems to be a process there and even if I don't understand it I can respect it. So that's worth an early town read.

I also see some kind of process with njac, although less substantive I guess. But I think it's slightly townie.

I played 2 games with them before and couldn’t read them in both of the games.... either they're in my null list or POE or I sheeped others read (who I think is/are town) on them.

is this about me?
no one ever thinks i'm scum

[geraintm]

Yeah I'm not real sure what trap geraintm was trying to set but he seems to have had something in mind.

anyone who decided to pipe up after my vote on you and said they found you sus, well, i just have that down as weird sucking up and i dont like it. not one bit

So, you don’t have any suspicion about

Galron

, the vote on them was a trap?

None at all, it was a random vote, 23 or whatever after my 1st.
I never expected anyone to say anything about it except huh, but to have someone go "I agree" was deeply weird

[geraintm]

@wayward son - that game was weird. I voted off my two partners mod game and then I should have been pretty much toast in the end game but town blew the solve.
I am super easy to read as scum - at least I think so - but no one ever prioritises me. Town never ever check me early game, town just needs to do that and then I am fine. Do that this game, please, make my life simpler

[geraintm]

Ger's mind is a lovely enigma to me but my early townread of him holds up. I'm eh on the Malcolm push since I don't see the SPRUNG TRAP as interesting. Galron's 48 is neutral to me, making up scumteams and voicing them is fun and good for producing reactions.

it wasnt atrap. it was literally my random vote as in every game. it was their post which was weird

[geraintm]

Spoiler: lol

Compared to yesterday, Malcolm and Salsa are also invited to the cookout atm everyone else must stew in FOMO for now!! xo

Please include the T in my name, it is only the M which can be dropped

[geraintm]

I mean if mafia kills me and then the actual doctor, we have a very low chance of winning so as I said watch carefully on how people treat me.

.

i have no idea what this post is, but i dont like it.

[geraintm]

Lol
Don’t read anyone who votes against me for anything, I'm an obvious town ML here my flip doesn’t mean Jack shit.

But here’s what you do need to look at, see if anyone 180’s on me during my last moments or says “actually he could be town”
Wolves tend to do that more often then town cause wolves don’t want to look bad after a town flip.

You have

two

votes on you, and the majority of the game has not actually called you scum at any point.

Again, this is a completely out of touch stance to take. It feels like grandstanding. There's no attempt to solve here.

That’s false, everyone has wolf read me.

*cough* everyone?

[geraintm]

Oh and side note with the point about Gera, I don't think he

can

really change his very lategame meta in that regard. He's not lurking by design, he's lurking because the game has tired him out and he's lost the capacity to really fake any arguments.

lurking? i didnt think i had been lurking?
but you ar eright, i dont hink i can change my playstyle. i have always said i think i am very obvious when i am scum. not my fault town doesnt collectively realise this.

[geraintm]

@salsa

I random voted someone

Malcolm comes in shortly after, not realising it was random, and start going "good point, I too found them sus"

Buddying up like that I don't like

[geraintm]

I mean if mafia kills me and then the actual doctor, we have a very low chance of winning so as I said watch carefully on how people treat me.

.

i have no idea what this post is, but i dont like it.

But your not gonna state you wolf read it just that you don’t like it?

I have no idea what you mean by wolf Read.
I've never met any more into wolves than you except that guy down the market whose entire stall in nothing but pics of them howling at the moon....

[geraintm]

Do you think Galron clears Wayward upon wolf flip?
That would be handy.
Thoughts?

wo is this aimed at?
what is a wolf flip?

[geraintm]

@salsa

I random voted someone

Malcolm comes in shortly after, not realising it was random, and start going "good point, I too found them sus"

Buddying up like that I don't like

The fact I didn't realise it was random is why I thought it was a good point - I didn't like the post from Galron and was simply agreeing with you.

yeah, i aint chaning my opinion of you. i think your joining me reeks and framing it like this doesn't put you in any better light.
VOTE: malcolm

[geraintm]

The fact I didn't realise it was random is why I thought it was a good point - I didn't like the post from Galron and was simply agreeing with you.

I know I touched on this earlier with Geraint, and in the one post where I misunderstood your point. What is wrong with expressing a nightmare scenario? You say you don't like it, can you express why?

i can't see a problem either, and i confess the team listed would be hard for town to beat.

[geraintm]

@ Malcolm I made that post after doing a dual ISO of Professor and Porkens. What makes you think Porkens can be Town? I'm not seeing anything.

Kitty is another player who like Wayward Son I'd like to see more from going forward and if PD isn't scum they're a candidate for a possible opportunistic vote. Relatively quiet so far and PD is a relatively obvious target at the moment where the reasoning sort of presents itself.

Personally I don't like these kinds of posts. You want to hear

more

from me? Do you have any questions?

@ Malcolm I get the feeling you know I'm wrong on PD, and are throwing shade at the wagon while slightly supporting it. Town read sliding south.

I'm not sure scum comes in and loudly advertises how hopeless they are so early on to be honest. Scum want to blend in typically and Porkens' approach doesn't indicate seamlessly blending in. If they have doubts as to the game and how they should approach things they have a scum thread where they can ask those questions. That they're not indicates they're probably thinking out loud to me. As a result your PD/Porkens solve felt a bit lazy to me, like you felt you needed to have reads beyond PD.

You've posted more now, fine, I was comparing Kitty to my initial read of you where neither player is overtly scummy but you're ISO reads like it could easily be early game cautious mafia trying to blend in without necessarily saying anything controversial.

I'm not trying to throw shade on you or necessarily move away from PD - I've said I think PD's play has been slightly scummy so far, it's just whether that play is actually coming from someone who is scum or if it is coming from someone who's just frustrated. My goal here is to think - would this player approach the game in this way if they were scum? I'm unsure that's the case with PD which is where my doubt is coming from, because their actual content so far has definitely been scummy, hence the initial read.

Malclm clearly never played with scum partners where you beg them not to do something in the scum chat and they do it anyways.

"I want to fake claim Day 1 that i am odd night tracker, even night cop and prime night hider, you think that is a good idea?"
"No"
"yeah, i'm a gonna do it anyways"

[geraintm]

If anyone has any questions aimed at me, ask them.

Wanna vote Galron with us?

Bad post.
Naughty point

[geraintm]

If anyone has any questions aimed at me, ask them.

Wanna vote Galron with us?

Very busy today, can't do details post but some particular things caught my eyes while skimming the posts:

1.

geraintm

's not understanding

wolf

term is not believable to me. This term was used/is using by a fair amount of players so, I found it a little bit of suspicious that they

literally

can't understand that.
Their

Malcolm

scumread either tunneling if they're town or forced/fake if they're scum.

2.

Iirr,

@Crescent

, you said you usually don’t vote up to 1st 4 days in D1, we have 3+ days left, whom do you think is/are scum(s)?

3.

Imo, we shouldn’t waste anymore time to sort

Professor

, it'll clear wheather they lied or not in D2.

@Professor

, now that

not everyone

are considering you scum, can you mention your reads?

4.

Galron

's "

Oh yeah I'm here just haven't felt like playing.

" (in 384) reminds me of scum!

Kitty

in Newbie-2100.

I worked it out later, but by then I couldn't be bothered to make another post about it.

[geraintm]

And why would I fake being confused about wolfing?

It mainly came from them saying earlier in the game that everyone was wolfing them, and the only way I know of its use is deep wolf and I was so confused

[geraintm]

And why would I fake being confused about wolfing?

It mainly came from them saying earlier in the game that everyone was wolfing them, and the only way I know of its use is deep wolf and I was so confused

[geraintm]

@geraintm:
Do you think that what you said in 365 could apply to ProfessorDrapion's claim?

I had to go back and find thr claim, I hadn't noticed it.


Note for self" professor has claimed some odd roll linked to Doc

But yeah....does have the feels of "clever as a bag of hammers scum claim"

[geraintm]

@geraintm:
Do you think that what you said in 365 could apply to ProfessorDrapion's claim?

I had to go back and find thr claim, I hadn't noticed it.


Note for self" professor has claimed some odd roll linked to Doc

But yeah....does have the feels of "clever as a bag of hammers scum claim"

So you're saying that you're not focused enough on the game to notice his claim?

What's your current read on Professor?

pretty much. i have a tendency when catching up overnight to skip most of the posts and look for my name. if others had made abigger deal of it at the time i woul dhave been more likely to notice

[geraintm]

@geraintm:
Do you think that what you said in 365 could apply to ProfessorDrapion's claim?

I had to go back and find thr claim, I hadn't noticed it.


Note for self" professor has claimed some odd roll linked to Doc

But yeah....does have the feels of "clever as a bag of hammers scum claim"

So you're saying that you're not focused enough on the game to notice his claim?

What's your current read on Professor?

pretty much. i have a tendency when catching up overnight to skip most of the posts and look for my name. if others had made abigger deal of it at the time i woul dhave been more likely to notice

Okay. Now please answer my second question.

i cant remember having any opinion on them

[geraintm]

I'm also interested in who is Crescent going to vote, btw.

they wont vote

[geraintm]

@geraintm I think your case on Malcolm is going nowhere, who else are you considering to vote?

does it matter if you dont think anyone else is going to join me?

[geraintm]

On a side note I already scumlean Gera. Based on my experiences with him, a specific thread of his behavior in this game is more likely to come from his scumgame. I'll go into details if people want me to.

you can't be right about me everytime you know
but please have me down as scum when i am begging to get checked out, because i know at some point later in the game my alignment is going to matter. scum will try and run me up and it will be helpful if they can get called out in the attempt

[geraintm]

Conftown: Professor (as no cc yet)

He claimed a backup Doctor, I don't see a cc coming. It sounds to me like an easy thing to fake claim.

Yeah, possible.... I usually get cold feet to eliminate someone who claim any role, in D1 specially. On the other hand, scum won't keep a TPR alive, so their claim will be cleared in D2 eventually.

Not necessarily D2!! but if it's a fakeclaim it could be disproved in multiple ways down the line so we table it for now

agree with this. early claims by scum just get exposed, they get trapped in their lies or else scum will get rid of them

[geraintm]

Also I just remembered the last time I saw someone voice suspicion of scum Gera day 1 they immediately got shot sooo....

Based on my experience with Gera, the way he has been loosely pushing on Malcolm for most of the day as the only vote on him feels like something that is more likely to come from his scum game. He's also voted the guy twice without even unvoting between those votes, which puts on full display just how long he's truly been at it. Heals hasn't contributed much outside of it.

This goes double if Galron or Wayward is scum, and it goes triple if Malcolm is town on top of that.

Scum Gera's favorite place is be is on a splinter vote that shows no signs of going anywhere, where he can nestle himself away and avoid the trains that actually matter. I called him out on this in 240 when I was zoning in on him, too.

have you played a game with me when i am not scum? what are my early game voting patterns like in those? i'd hazard they are awfully similar.
it is mid game where my scum votes come to the fore, not now

[geraintm]

Also I just remembered the last time I saw someone voice suspicion of scum Gera day 1 they immediately got shot sooo....

Based on my experience with Gera, the way he has been loosely pushing on Malcolm for most of the day as the only vote on him feels like something that is more likely to come from his scum game. He's also voted the guy twice without even unvoting between those votes, which puts on full display just how long he's truly been at it. Heals hasn't contributed much outside of it.

This goes double if Galron or Wayward is scum, and it goes triple if Malcolm is town on top of that.

Scum Gera's favorite place is be is on a splinter vote that shows no signs of going anywhere, where he can nestle himself away and avoid the trains that actually matter. I called him out on this in 240 when I was zoning in on him, too.

In that case will you consider

geraintm

signaling the scumteam to nk you in 25 as a traitor (if we consider we have a traitor in this 11 players game) or just signaling the scumteam as per wiki, scumteam don't know who is the traitor?

From wiki⇨

A Traitor is considered Normal on mafiascum.net, as long as it:

•is Mafia-aligned
•knows the identities of all of the Mafia team
•identity is not known by the Mafia team, although they should know a Traitor exists
•cannot be recruited to join the rest of the Mafia team, and (unless Bulletproof) is killed if shot
•is endgamed if all other Mafia are dead
•gives a "guilty" result to Cops, an "innocent" result to Gunsmiths, and a "Traitor" result to Role Cops

, because
you know i do this sort of thing semi regularly? any game i am in with not mafia i would want them solved as town night one too, because their continued existence for town in the game is just too problematic for town to deal with later?

as town, i would basically want myself to be checked out every single game for both selfish reasons and also because i know i can when town cause other town problems reading me.

after that i want people who if they stay in the game like not mafia to be sovled, because else you are just postponing when you do it.

after that, i would want players i would fear as storng potential scum to be solved.

[geraintm]

Maybe Malcolm and Gera are both town.
I mean if my current thoughts are accurate and solve then they are.

if your current thoughts are accurate then you are just damn straight lucky

[geraintm]

@geraintm I think your case on Malcolm is going nowhere, who else are you considering to vote?

does it matter if you dont think anyone else is going to join me?

It surely matters if you're going to sit on a wagon nobody else is interested in pursuing to make it look like a committed town read because as Crescent has suggested it's a way for scum to avoid having to make miseliminations. If your read on me was solid I'd at least understand it but your scumread is quite frankly not very good and I think it's right for other players to begin to wonder what angle you're pursuing it from if you have little interest in eliminating anyone else.

I'm not going to jump to a wagon unless I think they are more likely to be scum. Its day 1, I'm happy with no elimination

[geraintm]

@crescent

I am kinda pleased if I have somehow manged to post in a different style by accident in this game that has you unable to read me. It bodes well for future games when I am scum because you'll doubt yourself.

[geraintm]

I am amused that people are assigning scum motivation to all my actions. On day 1. Which I 99% think is useless. You arenjust lucky I didn't do "vote longest wagon" plan.
But I guess identifying people trying to push me out today will be useful later.

[geraintm]

Conftown: Professor (as no cc yet)

He claimed a backup Doctor, I don't see a cc coming. It sounds to me like an easy thing to fake claim.

Yeah, possible.... I usually get cold feet to eliminate someone who claim any role, in D1 specially. On the other hand, scum won't keep a TPR alive, so their claim will be cleared in D2 eventually.

Not necessarily D2!! but if it's a fakeclaim it could be disproved in multiple ways down the line so we table it for now

agree with this. early claims by scum just get exposed, they get trapped in their lies or else scum will get rid of them

@geraintm

, do you have any read other than

Malcolm

atm?

Honestly, right now I am on my phone and so no. I would need to iso people to remember who said what.

The person who claimed back up doc I have as either scum or bad town, but that would be sorted later so I'm happy to leave that slot. The rest of you....I haven't been paying enough attention to votes to see who I really think has been acting poorly. But it is day 1 and so nothing means anything until we get information overnight

[geraintm]

@geraintm I think your case on Malcolm is going nowhere, who else are you considering to vote?

does it matter if you dont think anyone else is going to join me?

It surely matters if you're going to sit on a wagon nobody else is interested in pursuing to make it look like a committed town read because as Crescent has suggested it's a way for scum to avoid having to make miseliminations. If your read on me was solid I'd at least understand it but your scumread is quite frankly not very good and I think it's right for other players to begin to wonder what angle you're pursuing it from if you have little interest in eliminating anyone else.

I'm not going to jump to a wagon unless I think they are more likely to be scum. Its day 1, I'm happy with no elimination

Wut?? Since when no elimination in D1 is good for town???

Day 1 eliminations are more than likely to end in thr death of town - scum should be able to easily direct the vote to someone they want. Why give scum a free death? Why allow them to get claims out townies they run up?

[geraintm]

If anyone has any questions aimed at me, ask them.

Wanna vote Galron with us?

After he answers my question.

Kitty if you're talking about a question you had previously posed I can't seem to find it. I feel I'm being gaslighted.

I meant the question I was about to ask.

Then ask, what are ypu waiting for?

I did, and he answered.

In fact, you just responded to his response.

Oh yeah I'm here just haven't felt like playing.

UNVOTE: wayward was rvs. Probably voting Drap or maybe Malcom today.

Why Malcolm?

I'm not really seeing a process there. And there's a whole lot of "well you seem like you could be town or scum" and that doesn't really sit well. There was a post or two wrt geraintm where he had expressed a hard town read and then rolled it back the more he got into the post.

They shows more thought process than you...

@geraintm I think your case on Malcolm is going nowhere, who else are you considering to vote?

does it matter if you dont think anyone else is going to join me?

It surely matters if you're going to sit on a wagon nobody else is interested in pursuing to make it look like a committed town read because as Crescent has suggested it's a way for scum to avoid having to make miseliminations. If your read on me was solid I'd at least understand it but your scumread is quite frankly not very good and I think it's right for other players to begin to wonder what angle you're pursuing it from if you have little interest in eliminating anyone else.

I'm not going to jump to a wagon unless I think they are more likely to be scum. Its day 1, I'm happy with no elimination

Wut?? Since when no elimination in D1 is good for town???

Day 1 eliminations are more than likely to end in thr death of town - scum should be able to easily direct the vote to someone they want. Why give scum a free death? Why allow them to get claims out townies they run up?

And go into day 2 basically blind? There's no guarantee we will have an investigative guilty day 2. A flip is needed to provide some concrete information to base a solve off of unless you are a god at this game.

Not blind. I cut think of a game where town doesn't get some info night 1.
Plus, we have one more town player! And scum haven't been given any info of players forced to claim. I think townnwould do better

[geraintm]

Those wanting me to move my vote. As I am town and reckon I am 90% likely to be on a town elimination if I do end up on a wagon somewhere, I'd rather one extra scum was on the wagon instead of me, get their hands dirty

[geraintm]

He showed favoritism towards day one no-votes in 2273, but as a single data point I wouldn't say it amounts to much. Consider curiosity sated, I guess.

i dont bring it up as much as i used to, just derails day 1s too much as people focus on it

[geraintm]

Like I'd rather self-hammer than allow a no-vote. .

i cannot see any circumstance as town why they would self vote. it goes 100% against your desire to win

[geraintm]

And for the record it has all the makings of scum getting pressure and then lurking to try to wait it out. Galron has had 3 votes for about 50 hours. In this span, he has just 8 posts. There's been some very light shade at Malcolm, and... Really nothing else. He has made zero attempt to do anything towards the train on him, just some "pst pst hey look at Malcolm" followed by nothing.

i would have expected more of an effort from their partners if they were scum to get another wagon going. i dont think they are going to flip red

[geraintm]

Yeah I'm not real sure what trap geraintm was trying to set but he seems to have had something in mind.

anyone who decided to pipe up after my vote on you and said they found you sus, well, i just have that down as weird sucking up and i dont like it. not one bit

Like this is really odd. Why is anyone who thinks Galron is scum after Gera votes for Galron therefore scummy? Especially when Gera otherwise believes it's hard to sort players on D1. The logic just isn't consistent.

i dont follow this post.

you know the reason why i think you are more likely to be scum than not is because you saw a vote and decided to follow up on it and agree to with its merits. it seemed....weird to me.

[geraintm]

I've seen Gera do this no elimination on D1 thing before but my issue at the moment is they weren't particularly bothered about it early on and appeared to be genuinely scumhunting, whereas now they seriously want to avoid us voting while we look to consolidate on Galron's wagon.

Given the short period of time we have left I think I'm content vote here. But town should obviously be careful as we'll be approaching hammer soon, think my vote is the 4th.

VOTE: Galron

i dont think you should consolodate on galron, i think it is going to end in a green flip.
i also think any sudden swing to another wagon right now is going to flail to another green flip.

it is kinda like i think any elimination today is just going to end up with us one down

[geraintm]

@ Professor Do you think everyone who's expressed suss at me is Town?

@ Geraint Are you sticking with Malcolm then? I don't think He'll flip red.

I see no reason to vote anyone else

[geraintm]

@ Professor Do you think everyone who's expressed suss at me is Town?

@ Geraint Are you sticking with Malcolm then? I don't think He'll flip red.

I've seen Gera do this no elimination on D1 thing before but my issue at the moment is they weren't particularly bothered about it early on and appeared to be genuinely scumhunting, whereas now they seriously want to avoid us voting while we look to consolidate on Galron's wagon.

Given the short period of time we have left I think I'm content vote here. But town should obviously be careful as we'll be approaching hammer soon, think my vote is the 4th.

VOTE: Galron

i dont think you should consolodate on galron, i think it is going to end in a green flip.
i also think any sudden swing to another wagon right now is going to flail to another green flip.

it is kinda like i think any elimination today is just going to end up with us one down

Eh it’s to the point we just need to hit the most optimal that can give us something from whichever way they flip and Galron gives us that.

What’s your read on Wayward?

I cannot for the life of me think of anything they have done.

[geraintm]

Wayward,.they have a very wishy washy vibe to them. Happy to vote out multiple people....but I'm never sure why. Just so happens to.end up on the galron wagon.
Lean scum

[geraintm]

So, that was a lot of posts overnight.

Much of it feels like flailing. Today isn't going to end in a red flip anyways.

I cannot be bothered to spend time against crescent-shaped case against me. One, Sunday so have less time. And two, arguing I am town against them when they are this sure is pointless, they will Bury me with walls of text that I cannot beat, because all I can do is say I'm town.

I confess, this is the oddest I've seen them play. They never stick their next out like this

[geraintm]

I will say that malcolm hasn't gone up in my estimation at all

[geraintm]

I don't know how to win. I say that I think day 1s are useless because they are more elikely than not to end in a town flip, and people say doesn't matter, a town flip is better than no flip.

So I say I think the wagon is going to end up on town, and I get called as scum because only a scum will know that.

I don't know that, yes town has caught scum day 1, just the odds are just not worth it, but I strongly believe day 1 flips will be of town.

What do people want me to say?
You all want me to change my opinion just to confirm?

[geraintm]

Popping in quickly.
Just to say you are not getting a claim from me if that was what you were hoping

[geraintm]

The only people who could do it are njac, you and kitty

[geraintm]

well, that is going to make things tougher.

[geraintm]

Yeah... Or you're just scum using WIFOM.

VOTE: geraintm

yep, could be.
i spent most of yesterday saying i thought that if they were town they would be very helpful for us, i wanted them checked over so that we wouldnt have to worry about them being scum and me and my team mates thought the best thing to do was to night kill the person who has stuck a huge target on me.
i don't know if they know who the scum team is in the dead thread, but Crescent it isn't me and i am sorry that whatever i did to get you to think i was scum is going to make today awkward.

[geraintm]

At least one scum was on

Wayward

's wagon & other scum is

geraintm

(not voted) if we have 2 scums.
But if we have 3 scums then I believe at least 2 scums were on the

Wayward

's wagon.

just realised both townies who died were on my wagon. that is also awkward

[geraintm]

VOTE: geraintm

I expect to see you stop being anti town from now on, btw.

i am not sure i follow this post.
you clearly think i am scum
you also think i am going to more pro town from now on?
surely that just means you expect me to fake it better from now on? because as scum i cannot ever actually...be pro town?

[geraintm]

And for the record it has all the makings of scum getting pressure and then lurking to try to wait it out. Galron has had 3 votes for about 50 hours. In this span, he has just 8 posts. There's been some very light shade at Malcolm, and... Really nothing else. He has made zero attempt to do anything towards the train on him, just some "pst pst hey look at Malcolm" followed by nothing.

i would have expected more of an effort from their partners if they were scum to get another wagon going. i dont think they are going to flip red

Gun to your head who do you think is scum in Galron's wagon?

Also why do you talk in plural, do you think there are more than two scum?

Galron (4): Salsabil Faria, NJAC, Shiidaji, MalcolmTucker

that was the wagon.

Wayward Son (5): Porkens, ProfessorDrapion, Galron, Shiidaji, Salsabil Faria, MalcolmTucker (Hammer)

that was the final wayward son wagon.

Salsabil is on both,
Malcolm tucker is
Shiidaji is

and you aren't but you think im scum.

would not be surprised if all 4 of you are.

And i kinda just assumed there was 3 scum. isnt that the case in games of this size?

[geraintm]

i meant all 4 could be scum, not that there are 4 scum

[geraintm]

Dude TF is NJAC’s post “oh do you think there isn’t 1 wolf in an 11 player game”
Dude if there was 1 wolf in an 11 player game I’d feel bad for the 1 wolf.

VOTE: NJAC

i think they are trying to get me to say if i think there are 2 or 3 scum in the game, and somehow thinking there are 3 is a scum slip?

[geraintm]

looking at the wagons from day 1, i can only see the 2 main ones on Galron and Wayward Son. There was a minor one later on on me that had 3 people on it - 2 of whom are dead and the other was NJAC

Galron (4): Salsabil Faria, NJAC, Shiidaji, MalcolmTucker
that was Galron's
Wayward Son (5): Porkens, ProfessorDrapion, Galron, Shiidaji, Salsabil Faria, MalcolmTucker (Hammer)
that was the hammer

All 4 on Galron either ended up on Watward Son - Town, or me - Also Town (yes yes, i knwo you lot don't know that but i do).

Those 4 would be where i would suggest there is a much higher chance of there being scum than not.

[geraintm]

My POE is

{

Professor

,

Porkens

,

Shiidaji

,

Galron

,

geraintm

}

(in no particular order) by creating the town-block including

{

NJAC

,

Malcolm

,

Kitty

}

#
you voted off a towie, you dont get to make town blocs

[geraintm]

Malcolm can you reply to my 732 wrt Crescent's case on Ger I'd really like that

Gera's play has been contradictory and at times reads as someone less playing from a townie POV and more someone who is informed trying to mask their scum motives.

Towards the end of D1 you had Gera regularly saying we definitely wouldn't hit scum. This felt less like a prediction and more like an attempt to seem like a townie with foresight that was overdone - despite acknowledging Wayward was town Ger made no attempt to formulate a viable alternative. This is sort of a hallmark of Ger's D1 play but the issue is they'd have happily eliminated me, so it wasn't consistent here; basically Ger essentially refused to participate in the wagon unless it was the one wagon Ger wanted.

And their push on me was rubbish and fabricated from very little too, read more like scum forcing a read on someone they knew wouldn't be limmed.

what is contradictory about me saying i wish we didn't eliminate anyone day 1, me saying i think day 1 wagons are way more likely to end on a townie than not, and me saying i hate day 1 because there is literally no info to go on. that all seems pretty much self contained.

you complain that i didnt jump up and down and try and get an alternative to wayward son - but that would have just be based on "gut feelings" and would have been as wrong as anyone else's.

[geraintm]

My POE is

{

Professor

,

Porkens

,

Shiidaji

,

Galron

,

geraintm

}

(in no particular order) by creating the town-block including

{

NJAC

,

Malcolm

,

Kitty

}

#
you voted off a towie, you dont get to make town blocs

Famously scum never distance themselves from a town elimination for towncred.

i dont understand this post.

and @ njac - my style is what it is. calling me names isnt going to get me to change.

[geraintm]

Ger, I get it's frustrating when you have a style and it maybe clashes with other players, but if you want people to townread you then you can't just automatically shade others for being on a town wagon (which clearly was not all scum) when you actively refused to leave a wagon on me you knew wasn't going to pass. It makes you look suspect and without meta I'd have my vote locked onto you here.

town blocs are groups of people that are cleared - or at least that is what it means to me. day 2, when a townie was voted off yesterday and as far as i know no extra info no one should be giving other players passes like that. certainly not someone who's "gut feelings" yesterday resulted in them voting off town. because if they were wrong about that then they really, really have no reason to be painting a bunch of players as green today

[geraintm]

Malcolm can you reply to my 732 wrt Crescent's case on Ger I'd really like that

Gera's play has been contradictory and at times reads as someone less playing from a townie POV and more someone who is informed trying to mask their scum motives.

Towards the end of D1 you had Gera regularly saying we definitely wouldn't hit scum. This felt less like a prediction and more like an attempt to seem like a townie with foresight that was overdone - despite acknowledging Wayward was town Ger made no attempt to formulate a viable alternative. This is sort of a hallmark of Ger's D1 play but the issue is they'd have happily eliminated me, so it wasn't consistent here; basically Ger essentially refused to participate in the wagon unless it was the one wagon Ger wanted.

And their push on me was rubbish and fabricated from very little too, read more like scum forcing a read on someone they knew wouldn't be limmed.

what is contradictory about me saying i wish we didn't eliminate anyone day 1

, me saying i think day 1 wagons are way more likely to end on a townie than not, and me saying i hate day 1 because there is literally no info to go on. that all seems pretty much self contained.

you complain that i didnt jump up and down and try and get an alternative to wayward son - but that would have just be based on "gut feelings" and would have been as wrong as anyone else's.

You did want an elimination D1 though, you wanted to eliminate me. That's my issue here. You dismissed the value of D1 when it suited you but pushed exclusively one vote at the same time, indeed you even voted for me twice without removing the first vote! You were clearly okay with an elimination provided it was exactly the one you wanted, lest you have to compromise at all. This is anti-town because it's a deliberate attempt from obscuring how others are able to read you D1, indeed your defence of your play here is that basically you don't like D1 when other players have repeatedly affirmed the value of it time and time again.

then i was in error yesterday for not just giving you a naughty point and actually placing a vote like i normally do

[geraintm]

looking at the wagons from day 1, i can only see the 2 main ones on Galron and Wayward Son. There was a minor one later on on me that had 3 people on it - 2 of whom are dead and the other was NJAC

Galron (4): Salsabil Faria, NJAC, Shiidaji, MalcolmTucker
that was Galron's
Wayward Son (5): Porkens, ProfessorDrapion, Galron, Shiidaji, Salsabil Faria, MalcolmTucker (Hammer)
that was the hammer

All 4 on Galron either ended up on Watward Son - Town, or me - Also Town (yes yes, i knwo you lot don't know that but i do).

Those 4 would be where i would suggest there is a much higher chance of there being scum than not.

Why? Do you think Galron is town? If so why?

i suppose i subconsciously assumed galron was town, but i shouldnt have. i think i assume everyone is town for too long until given evidence (excepting Malcolm of course)
you could make the argument that a long wagon that gets cast aside in favour of one that ends up on town (and another minor one that is also town [me]) could make that slot more likely to be scum.

i should go back and reread galron's posts.

[geraintm]

I think whoever steered the wagon away from Galron is scum with Galron.
VOTE: Galron

I'd argue Salsa and Shii were the two key switches onto Wayward which essentially killed off Galron's wagon. But I don't particularly scumread either of them and their reasoning were solid.

Myself and NJAC voted for Ger around that time too, which was the third possible wagon, but again our votes were reasonable based on what went before. Who specifically do you think is implicating from the Galron wagon withering away?

you can scum read people for their actions, even if they don't sound scummy.
need to check their votes on wayward (and others) and what their reasoning was and how badly their stink

[geraintm]

After reading from page 26, I'm having a scenario in my mind.
What if

Crescent

&

Wayward

are scums & scum!

Crescent

is trying to save their partner here by creating another counter wagon on town!

geraintm

. As town-flip on

Galron

will directly point towards scum!

Wayward

, scum!

Crescent

don't have choice to start another counter wagon on another one (a little tin foil theory:

Wayward

can be a scum PR). In this case town!

geraintm

is a safe option for them because other players aren’t sure about

geraintm

and their play style is quite similar as both alignment & scum!

Crescent

know this pretty well to fabricate the scumread on them +

geraintm

entered the game by drawing attention towards

Crescent

.

Another thing is bugging me for a while that how

Crescent

is very sure about

Professor

&

Porkens

's alignment which I find TMIing from scum!them because in my eyes, those two don't do enough things yet to declare them townie tbh. Like in 653, 655 and may be in 656,

Crescent

continuously said

Professor

and

Porkens

are town based on

geraintm

's scum flip, then again said later that scum-flip on

geraintm

will indicate town!

Galron

+ slightly town cleared

Wayward

.
Now do you guys see who are left in the

cleared

list for

Crescent

? Those who don't be pocketed easily or townreading

Crescent

blindly.

By saying all of these, I think

Wayward

is a good elimination for town. I also don’t mind

Galron

but scum!

Crescent

's stance around it making be believe town!

Galron

scenario.

VOTE: Wayward

that was the Salsabil vote on wayward, moving off Galron.

They were still happy to have voted galron, but this vote does feel like it effectivly killed the galron wagon.

and i havent a clue what the logic is.
they start from the theory that wayward and crescent are scum....and then use that theory to vote for wayward. if they had started from a view that wayward was not scum, i dont htink you end up in a posistion to vote them. the post even seems to make the stronger case that crescent is scum, again built from the point of view that crescent is scum.

it is just awful logic. these peopel are scum, and i worked that out by assuming they were scum.
remember, both these people turn up as town. and the other person they've tied into the logic is me, also town.

[geraintm]

Salsa you beat me to it I've been having Crescent-Wayward in the back of my mind as a potential team for a bit and I'm glad someone else might feel the same way. Though posts like 438 that show them interacting are what make me doubt it since I feel like scum wayward might not slot buddy Cres in as town there + Cres's questioning the TR feels town.

UNVOTE: Gal consider this a vote for wayward, I'll follow up in the morning since I don't know what the count's at rn

@Shiidaji

, vote

Wayward

Ya sure

oki xo sweet dreams VOTE: wayward

those were Shiidaji's vote on wayward, and some wrap around posts.
that is even less effort than Salsabil's

[geraintm]

In fact, nothing is changing now, best to just go for it. Sorry Wayward, but if you're town should hopefully help us solve going forward.

VOTE: Wayward Son

Agreed, should be informative D2 I think if Wayward is town.

these are malcolm's hammer vote on wayward.
that is low, low effort. if this is scum then it has the reluctant "i suppose i need to hammer but i think they are scum" vibes to it.
they hinted at if it was a green flip, then Day 2 would be intersting, but they (to me) seem to have just focussed on me for my day 1 actions.

[geraintm]

overall, i can see there being a high chance of scum in the grouping of Salsabil, shiidaji and malcolm, and GAlron potentially as the scum wagon that got derailed.
i dont think i'll be voting outside that group today

[geraintm]

@malcolm.

i dont want day 1 eliminations. i believe town is best served not killing anyone and starting the game only 1 player down and with whatever night info they have, rather than 2 down.
i think everyone's thoughts on day 1 are pointless.
but you can use the info gained from actual actions - votes - on day 1 during day 2.
i think during day 1 all but the few scum (and in there are townies with extra info) are just waffling out of their arses everytime they say someone is scummy (and yes, i include myself in that). during day 1 you can't do anything with what anyone says, it is just pointless. i sit there and give out naughty points as place holders for when i think someone has done something i dont like and want to make a note that later on they can be used as something to return to - (which is what i should have done with you instead of voting).

but once we have a flip then we can start to piece the game together.
and that is what i am trying to do.

you cannot use the defence of "i didnt really want to eliminate wayward, look i said it!" whilst then actually voting for them. that is an action and i can make reads based off your actions.
you cannot say that you only voted them off because it provides more information, and then vote for me for using the very information you have provided for my reads!

[geraintm]

Quick post
@galron

Yep, I couldn't. And town would go through day 2 not juch better than day 1, except a few players would have some night info. It shouldn't take much to make day 2 better than a naked day 1. Someone would see a wagon run up on someone they checked as clear. Someone would see someone else pushing wagons when they knew they were out last night.

I'd be happy to be able to wait until day 3 after a semi informed kill on day 2 and the extra town player, rather than randomly finding a townie to kill day 1

[geraintm]

Btw,

@Porkens

, in which post

geraintm

soft claimed?

im curious about this too. what tells do i have.

yesterday's posts about me feel very different, mainly because the people writing them havent done it from the point of view that i am scum. you get very different answers if you come at me from a different point of view.

i have this fear that this might be now setting me up to live because they think i might want to go after malcolm. i was first set up via crescent, and now other things? i dunno, maybe, getting paranoid now

[geraintm]

Btw,

@Porkens

, in which post

geraintm

soft claimed?

im curious about this too. what tells do i have.

yesterday's posts about me feel very different, mainly because the people writing them havent done it from the point of view that i am scum. you get very different answers if you come at me from a different point of view.

i have this fear that this might be now setting me up to live because they think i might want to go after malcolm. i was first set up via crescent, and now other things? i dunno, maybe, getting paranoid now

You deny you soft claimed in Your first post?

i am going to deny it, yes.
and if there was a claim that i have made that you have spotted, bringing it to the attention of everyone isn't smart.

[geraintm]

Where are you from @Porkens?

[geraintm]

I’m from the US

i thought you might have been UK too

[geraintm]

@Salsa - I get Ger killing Crescent could seem a bit obvious but it was noted at the start of the game Crescent's a capable and skilled player, and I don't think anyone was shocked to see they were the NK. I think that cover would be enough for Ger to consider going for it and getting rid of Crescent anyway. If they're scum it hasn't worked out too badly here, they're not definitely going to be voted out and they've got rid of someone vocally scumreading them who was a bit of a town leader in the process.

So, your thinking is, let me get this straight....for me to suggest that people check out Crescent, and then immediately night one either scum me or one of my partners go round their house. And risk someone else be there and spot us?

That is what you think my plan one. Days before Crescent suspect me, I was already setting them up to kill because I knew that it wouldn't come back on me because I knew from my first post that later kn Crescent was going to think me scum?

[geraintm]

VOTE: ProfessorDrapion

I’m losing WiM for this game tbh.

Pull yourself together

[geraintm]

@salsa

I have denied there is a soft claim.
Digging now into what they thought my claim was is not going to be helpful to town.

[geraintm]

@Salsa - I get Ger killing Crescent could seem a bit obvious but it was noted at the start of the game Crescent's a capable and skilled player, and I don't think anyone was shocked to see they were the NK. I think that cover would be enough for Ger to consider going for it and getting rid of Crescent anyway. If they're scum it hasn't worked out too badly here, they're not definitely going to be voted out and they've got rid of someone vocally scumreading them who was a bit of a town leader in the process.

I know..... I'm going with my gut feeling on this.... I can't read

geraintm

tbh...

Btw, do you notice 1073?

I didn't notice a soft-claim but I am horrendous at spotting or dishing out crumbs.

There was no soft claim for you to notice

[geraintm]

@Salsa - I get Ger killing Crescent could seem a bit obvious but it was noted at the start of the game Crescent's a capable and skilled player, and I don't think anyone was shocked to see they were the NK. I think that cover would be enough for Ger to consider going for it and getting rid of Crescent anyway. If they're scum it hasn't worked out too badly here, they're not definitely going to be voted out and they've got rid of someone vocally scumreading them who was a bit of a town leader in the process.

So, your thinking is, let me get this straight....for me to suggest that people check out Crescent, and then immediately night one either scum me or one of my partners go round their house. And risk someone else be there and spot us?

That is what you think my plan one. Days before Crescent suspect me, I was already setting them up to kill because I knew that it wouldn't come back on me because I knew from my first post that later kn Crescent was going to think me scum?

"for me to suggest that people check out Crescent, and then immediately night one either scum me or one of my partners go round their house. And risk someone else be there and spot us?"

Which role in normal can find who visited who? I can't remember this type of roel...

@salsa

I have denied there is a soft claim.
Digging now into what they thought my claim was is not going to be helpful to town.

@Salsa - I get Ger killing Crescent could seem a bit obvious but it was noted at the start of the game Crescent's a capable and skilled player, and I don't think anyone was shocked to see they were the NK. I think that cover would be enough for Ger to consider going for it and getting rid of Crescent anyway. If they're scum it hasn't worked out too badly here, they're not definitely going to be voted out and they've got rid of someone vocally scumreading them who was a bit of a town leader in the process.

I know..... I'm going with my gut feeling on this.... I can't read

geraintm

tbh...

Btw, do you notice 1073?

I didn't notice a soft-claim but I am horrendous at spotting or dishing out crumbs.

There was no soft claim for you to notice

What makes you think we were talking about you?

I am around to talk if anyone wants to pull up a chair my reads haven't changed much in the last page or two. Let's start talking consensus.

1059 (

"I want to respond to Salsa's post when I have time cuz something stuck out to me and I can't put it into words rn"

), 1082

Let's see
geraintm
pros: Eliminates a headache read for lil ol me
cons: I lean town rn
MalcolmTucker
pros: outside chance of malcolm being verbose scum, I trust salsa more
cons: i doubt it rn and I feel like he pushes conversation rn which we need
Porkens
pros: I'm fine with this
cons: none
KittyTacky
pros: doubt kitty gets limmed today, more pressure on him means more posting though which helps read a null-er slot
cons: leaning town rn
Galron
pros: lots of info gained on a red flip from the day1 focus
cons: none rn
ProfessorDrapion
pros: sweet release
cons: potential PR burn
NJAC
pros: I can see some posting come from scum perspective, I'm fine with this
cons: none rn
Salsabil Faria
pros: eh
cons: nah

Don't understand
Btw, I'm more confident in

Porkens

flipping scum, but I'm not against voting

NJAC

either.
I want your opinion about 1073 also.


So far, I can put scum!

NJAC

with scum!

Porkens

, scum!

Kitty

, scum!

Galron

where I find {scum!

Kitty

- scum!

Galron

} & {scum!

Kitty

- scum!

Porkens

} scenarios are unlikely (based on their conversations with each other).
But my gut feeling is saying

Kitty

is a town here, which leaves this pool: {

NJAC

,

Porkens

,

Galron

}
Now, if

Galron

really soft-claimed as a town, then it confirms

NJAC

/

Porkens

scrum team (if we have 2 scums only, but if there is a 3rd scum/traitor then I don't know.... yet, will consider

geraintm

may be).

Unvoting for now but my vote is on either

NJAC

or

Porkens

today....

UNVOTE: Galron

Post 1082 literally quote my posts looking for a claim from me?

Isn't there some sort of tracking role or watching role that can see who goes to a house at night?

[geraintm]

I don't wantnto vote porkens
I think I want to VOTE: malcolm

[geraintm]

I don't wantnto vote porkens
I think I want to VOTE: malcolm

Can you please summarize your updated case on Malcolm?

i didn't like them day 1.
day 2 they seem to have built a case on me that i know stinks.
they are scum reading people i really don't want to get voted off, i assume they are trying to steam role through 2 town slots at least.

it isn't a great case, but best ive got. it has a higher chance to be correct than the one he has made on me

[geraintm]

i am not touching porkens today ever.

[geraintm]

i said repeatedly i would love to be solved. i dont think killing me is the way to do it though

[geraintm]

i have ruled out a slot today, because if they thought they saw a crumbed claim or whatever and decided to not eliminate me last night, then i have them as strong town. that is my logic

[geraintm]

being pushed by someone because i am focused on one slot and don't want to go elsehwere..well i can't really do much about that because the person pushing me is the person i have as scum when i know i would flip green.
they helpfully dont mention that the wagon i am sitting on is them

[geraintm]

Why scum!them can't keep you alive to frame town!you with Crescent nk, @geraintm?

thats true.
but i dont think scum would have brought it up today if that was the case.
you dont set them up like that, and then let your target have an out.

so i am very definitely ruling them out of part of the scum team.

[geraintm]

i have ruled out a slot today, because if they thought they saw a crumbed claim or whatever and decided to not eliminate me last night, then i have them as strong town. that is my logic

being pushed by someone because i am focused on one slot and don't want to go elsehwere..well i can't really do much about that because the person pushing me is the person i have as scum when i know i would flip green.
they helpfully dont mention that the wagon i am sitting on is them

These are just so vague that I can't make anything of them. Why won't you use names and specifics?

Porkens is the person i town read because they think they saw a softclaim from me and let me live.

Malcolm is the person who is pushing me who i think is scum.

[geraintm]

Ger why are you not on NJAC?

i havent really looked at them much, they havent pinged me over the last few days so havent looked.

[geraintm]

Ger why are you not on NJAC?

i havent really looked at them much, they havent pinged me over the last few days so havent looked.

Would you describe yourself as a strong scum player? Anyone else can chime in here fyi

No. Never said that.
I am hard to get voted off normally, butbi don't solve games

[geraintm]

Ger why are you not on NJAC?

i havent really looked at them much, they havent pinged me over the last few days so havent looked.

Would you describe yourself as a strong scum player? Anyone else can chime in here fyi

That claim feels awfully like Scum needing to buy a day

[geraintm]

VOTE: njac

[geraintm]

I have an investigative role, used it on Kitty on N1, and didn't get any result.

Why would you do that?

[geraintm]

i was about to say, if NJAC wasnt killed today and it was me, then tomorrow tey have to be eliminated unless they came back with a guilty

[geraintm]

very quickly posting my notes i made overnight


I strongly town read Porkens from both their soft claim read on me and being 3rd on the NJAC wagon is highly town
I now strongly read Salsabil too, i think if they were scum they didn't need to hammer then.
Kitty is town (obv this was true as they ended up dead)

That leaves as potential scum

Professor Drapion
Shiidaji
Malcolm
Galron

i think it is in the last two.

not able to post more than this until later tonight.

[geraintm]

Howdy!! Bizarre kill that saves us some wine reading.

It was the obvious kill, Kitty was pretty much confirmed town with their claim.
They might have gone for someone else hunting for a non vanilla I guess, but Kitty was never going to get voted off

[geraintm]

Having a hard time seeing Porkens and Salsa as scum given their positioning on the NJAC wagon with Ger ripe for picking at day end. Drapion and Ger as well to a lesser extent. If Ger was a buddy they could have kept their MO and just stayed in park through the end of the day.

I think scum are going to have a hard time persuading people that any of the three of us are scum.
They can try with me I guess, that yesterday was scum vs scum. They are more than welcome to

[geraintm]

Drapion bussing his PR partner like that also feels unlikely though his inactivity towards day end means he could have missed his hop-off timing.

If there were any scum on that wagon early, they had plenty of chance of switching to me.
I've got a strong feeling the wagon was all town. No scum should have been on it.

[geraintm]

Nightmare scenario would be geraintm/crscent/malcom

What makes you say that? Based on vibes or anything you noticed?

Malcom has a verbose I guess you'd call it posting syle like crescent so a lot of both of their posts would probly get missed. And geraintm is pretty slippry and has already slim shaded crescent which would be a decent distancing tactic that I don't think many would think much of.

I believe the other 2 of this list are also towns. And '

And geraintm is pretty slippry and has already slim shaded crescent which would be a decent distancing tactic that I don't think many would think much of.

' explains the N1 kill. I also mentioned some scum!

Galron

points in 309 & 558 in D1.

Galron

is at E-1.

lol okay

That's fine but I'm not maf and you don't want to flip me

And

NJAC

thought

this was soft-claim from

Galron

& that's why they didn’t vote

Galron

in D1.

Galron

is at E-1.

lol okay

That's fine but I'm not maf and you don't want to flip me

@Galron: 314 and 535 were addressed to you. Please answer.

In case it's not clear I think Salsa is town now

Galron should really be voting Drapion right now

LEt's see where it goes. I get the impression Drapion is a gunslinger so I'll give some room.

What did you mean here with "gunslinger" and why did you say that?

I don't know why this is importatn but Prof seems to accuse/vote and then examine it. Like shoot first and ask questions later.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=83299&start=325

As a rep in it doesn't do much for early game analysis but I'm going to archive this for later on. Thanks!

@Galron: what insights did you get from that game about scum!Porkens' play?

I didn't get anything because porkens was a rep in and their part was late game.

These conversations seems avoiding associativity types.

I was talking about these D2 posts from

Galron

:

I'm at work I will look at njac's iso tonight. They really haven't gotten any pressure that I can recall. I don't see remember any conclusions being drawn from answers to questions they've asked. Like possible scum busy work.

Njac coming back at me a bit was kind of townie.

I've really soured on geraintm being town.

VOTE: gera

I'm at work I will look at njac's iso tonight. They really haven't gotten any pressure that I can recall. I don't see remember any conclusions being drawn from answers to questions they've asked. Like possible scum busy work.

Njac coming back at me a bit was kind of townie.

I've really soured on geraintm being town.

VOTE: gera

Hmm... what exactly NJAC did to change your read on them, @Galron?

It hasn't changed so much as they're bouncing from town to null and back and forth. I had some doubts yesterday morning but going through their iso and seeing them push back against people seems I guess not super townie but at the least not scummy.

I'd like to know the Prof's case though. He seems to be darting around it.

As

NJAC

was the other wagon against

geraintm

, pushing

geraintm

for saving their scum pr seems valid to me.

It was a weird push on me. Ive done nothing different this game to others, and getting so much early pressure was just weird. It coming because they needed a target besides scum makes more sense now.

[geraintm]

VOTE: Salsa

I am not going here today

[geraintm]

VOTE: Galron

Galron and malcolm are currently my top 2 most likely as scum.
I won't have much time this weekend to go through people's histories. Plan to do that Monday

[geraintm]

Welcome back all

[geraintm]

Salsa's hammer was still...bold, to say the least, but I'm not sure scum actually has to hammer there. Easier to try and ride out the claim (which I was ready to believe for the turn) since Salsa had some town-cred anyway.

It's probably Galron. Simplest solution here. Ger and Porkens look town now.

Agree with this.
If they are scum, they'll get found out soon enough

[geraintm]

Salsa votes ger and then says at 2 AM (3 hours left to go) that she can't be online for long.
1288 proves salsa at EOD understood no-elim was still a possibility. So scum salsa should be angling for NJAC to live another night to get at least one more investigation off.
ger in the same way E-2 votes NJAC at 3 AM, and Salsa follows, onto a claimed investigative that, had they been scum, they clearly were within their rights to say "nah I'd rather No-Elim than go for the investigative role today.
If it's scum ger and town salsa in this situation, ger should be lurking as well and not voting for NJAC here, especially after a claim.
If it's town ger and scum salsa in this situation, salsa is crazy lol. I don't buy it though.
I originally wanted to TR Malcolm's post-hammer reaction but the anger could also be channeling his actual feelings of his partner getting strung up after claiming.[/spoiler]
Main takeaways for me:
- I can see some part of the Salsa-Ger-NJAC link midway through Day 2 since Salsa and NJAC jumped on and off ger in succession. Given a few interactions and EOD2 though I'm not feeling it rn. The read really just helped me outline that the only possible situation I see Salsa as scum is if it's 3 scum with ger.
- Galron has motive to NK Kitty besides the Ascetic claim, since Kitty was a key opponent against him in D2
- I'm still more pleased in Porkens town, he had slotted NJAC in null in his 1027 list yet later joined pushing him to a lim despite having possible wagons on myself, Galron and Kitty available to him.

i really like this summary, and articulates much better why i don't have Salsa as scum. Scum Salsa did not need to be anywhere on that hammer and would have easily gone for me. if they are scum, then well played in throwing us off the scent.

i think the only way people can make sense of the end of yesterday is coming up with a scum team of me, salsa and NJAC but that just is impossible.

i read Shiidaju strongly for this summary. it just aligns so cloesly to what i think i just don't see scum spending all that time to do it and leave them in the small pool of possible scum.

Basically, i ain't touching Shiidaji, Porkens or Salsa today

I am only voting within Galron, Malcolm and Professor

Going to look over these 3 people's votes now, and see what i think of them

[geraintm]

Malcolm DAy 1

Very late vote, 1st onto Galron
Then Porkens <<< town
Then Me <<< town
Then the Hammer

Day 2

Me (along with Salsa and scum NJAC, salsa goes quickly)
and that is it

I don't see many votes there on players in my SCum pool, and lots on people i consider town

[geraintm]

Galron

Day 1

Opens with Wayward Son
Eventualy moves to no vote
back to wayward son and stays there until the eventual elimination (or a townie)

Day 2

Takes a while, but eventually votes for Me
stays there for the end of the day

They literally have not placed a vote that isn't on a townie (though that is only 2 votes)

[geraintm]

Professor

Day 1

1st onto NJAC <<< scum
then Wayward Son <<<< town
and stays there for the elimination

DAy 2

into Shiidaji <<< strongly town read
then onto NJAC (1st vote there) <<<< scum
stays there for the elimination

[geraintm]

Of the three, Professor has the best voting history. they were the initial vote on NJAC yesterday, and didn't take any opportunity to jump elsewhere - and they could have done so if they were scum with the claim. i have them a clear step below the other two.

So, i want to vote Galron and Malcolm. i am willing to hear suggestions from others in which order they should go.

[geraintm]

BTW, I can't risk no-elimination,

@Kitty

, vote with me...

VOTE: geraintm

Ger why are you not on NJAC?

i havent really looked at them much, they havent pinged me over the last few days so havent looked.

Would you describe yourself as a strong scum player? Anyone else can chime in here fyi

That claim feels awfully like Scum needing to buy a day

VOTE: njac

Hammering....

VOTE: NJAC

I just cannot see how Scum Salsa votes NJAC there, their partner. they could have easily used my vote for NJAC out of nowhere as a reason to go back onto my wagon and get others to join them. but they didn't

it only makes sense if Salsa was willing to sacrifice a partner instead of voting me off (which was the very likely thing that would have happened - Kitty would have switched to me 100% and i would have gone).
Or else all three of me, Salsa and NJAC are scum and we decided that we would get NJAC to spew out a claim with only hours to go and then both of us jump on them and the three of us hadnt been pushign elsewhere for days.

I am not voting Salsa

[geraintm]

wait and see what the others in my green pile think.

[geraintm]

wait and see what the others in my green pile think.

Galron

is basically lurking atm, iirr (from meta), it’s scum indicative for them.

Malcolm feels absent too

[geraintm]

I am not voting salsa. Will post more later

[geraintm]

VOTE: galron

[geraintm]

I am not voting salsa. Will post more later

You really should consider about eliminating me... I imagined all of the aspects (as much as I can) & eliminating me today is the best chance to win for town.

i consider you to be strongly likely to be town, i am not voting you

[geraintm]

Jazz hands

[geraintm]

I think this is rushing it.

do you see us eliminating outside galron/malcolm today?

[geraintm]

From reading some of Malcolm’s posts I am starting to lean them town as well.

Which then puts it to Gera, Shii and Salsa.

come end game, i am curious for you to explain properly your thinking here, because it is so at odds with everything i see

[geraintm]

There's a whole world of other scenarios. PR Drapion might get shot by F3 if it ever gets to that point. We have potential PR actions left to work with before then, plus prof can still technically be scum alol

yes to this ^^^^

[geraintm]

Scum salsa would have sat on me after my vote for their partner and got me eliminated. I ain't buying them as scum

[geraintm]

Today isn't helping, things getting mean.
People need to either vote galron or say why somewhere else, the professor excluded e

[geraintm]

That sounds like a concession

[geraintm]

So....yeah voting NJAC out was very lucky I guess.
I think the claim just stank too much of a late day claim by a scum. That it was a genuine claim made it all the more lucky we hammered, esp as the claim was effectively confirmed in twilight.

My vote was also partially self interest, as I knew I would be the wagon that went.

But why did Salsa hammer?

Can I ask, what was the softclaim that people thought I had? Porkens I think it was who mentioned it.

[geraintm]

'Ello 'ello 'ello.....

God this game took ages to start, i was observing the Queue for ages waiting.

i think i recognise most of the people's names. i would suggest (from past experience) that if there is a cop type role in the game that Crescent gets checked night 1, they cannot be allowed as scum to get too far into the game.

I'll check in during the day, as I can. Just expect more from me at night!

Vampire confirmed, gotcha

Anyways, here we have gone from the 2nd to a 3rd

I thought you were softing watcher

No.
But being read as having a roll and then jot being killed made me strongly read you as town.

Scum - was the plan with killing Crescent to set me up, curious?

[geraintm]

Game seemed balanced, town got lucky and rolled it up from there, but by no means unwinnable for scum which is what I want for a game, a fair shot for both sides

[geraintm]

Crescent - what made you scum read me so much this game?