Mini Normal 2275: Roguelikes - Day 3: Endgame!

[Eiralox]

Starting with this will finish whenever.

[Eiralox]

sorry put this in wrong order

431 "Mala/Lowell/eiralox is a team I'd lock in rn gth

Its probably wrong but i am confident of at least 2"

[Eiralox]

437
"Well I'm confident enough in lowell that I'd veto anyone i believe is spewed town off him, and i even actively townread loft off meta and malcom as well. Kenny i refuse to comment on because he did fool me recently in a somewhat embarassing way."

^Here. Loft was townread early on(no reason given, and then townread again because 'scumclaimed' lowell. Then townread here for third time for 'meta'. So.... yeah.


438 "I think Lowells reaction to a wagon starting on him however should be indicative enough that he isn't solving the game and is self pressing in a scummy way"

^ This isn't a case. Anyone would be defending themselves. Still feeling scum! cw going after lower posters(and assumed easier targets) with the exception of Shoshin, and the greening of Loft.

461: The Eira vote. I won't be commenting on me/cw, what a fucking mess, but read over it and come to your own conclusions. Note the desperation for having the mala/lowell/eiera team confirmed despite ancillary evidence, basically only my reaction is used to to push a team of three.

488: "Jumping around wagon to wagon is not a scum behavior."

^^ I take this in context with Lowell/Eira push and how Lowell and Eira jumping wagons for 'self pres' are scummy.

490:

"with [Lowell/Eira/Mala] as the most likely team

and then as bonus PoE: [BBT/kennyk]

Every other player I feel a confident enough reason to townread them.
"

^^^^^ Loftwing and SHosh are green, basically. Loft who was acting null to scum, i dont get, shosh i was townreading so sure ill give benefit of doubt if it wASNT for later cw/shosh.

543

"I hope that satiates any concerns you have that my read is faulty based on reasoning you think could apply to you. I could go for a townblock including myself, Irrelephant, you(loftwing), CSF, Fredrick, and Fancy Pants

honorary members Shoshin and Malcom"

^^^ Loft was townread for meta according to cw, as well malcolm, but loft is higher here? I mean loft was having a wagon on them so scum would be pushing for loft as town above all else, yes?

635: "Where in the world are Lowell and Mala"

Shade on inactives, easy targets. Might be town but the fact that these are in cw's scumblock just reads like egging on other imo.

708

" also i fully think shoshin is town and never eliminate and the only reason their reads are so bonkers is because theyre both misclearing the most obvious scum and misreading an easily findable townie for what I believe are incorrect reasons to label someone as mafia."

^^^ What a rant. basically: Shoshin is my scum bud we wont be elimming there, and they arent going for the same targets as me. But theyre town despite disgreeing with me(While cw was happy to vote Fred for going easy on Eira and having contrary reads to CW? This post in the context of Fred only heightens the chances of cw scum 4 me.

[Eiralox]

710: "shoshin please cite a single thought from Eira you thought was towny. Because I guarantee you binned them town for posting a lot and being pushed by someone you are currently confbiasing into a scumteam for defending your top scumread."

^The first direct Shoshin interaction iirc. This can be town! CW actually, or mere mafia theatre. If shosh is scum with cw this can be an out-of-chat coordination, basically: Don't draw attention to me' Eh.

VOTE: Confidently Wrong

Ok I'm still going to read you town and carry anyways

If you want to be obtuse, I think you are town because your thoughts are obviously independent and I can trace how you reached conclusions.

I disagree with your conclusions, and think the process is wrong. But its a towny process.

If you want to play with your ego and get mad and vote me for disagreeing with you go ahead, but don't be surprised when it doesn't help win the game for town.

for visibility

This... this exhibitionism. Look: Shosh is town despite voting me! Im tabulating it here so that everyone can be sure Shosh is town! I mean... one of the posts most triggering 2 me, this.

I am at a point where I can call every one of these players town with confidence, if I am wrong about *any* of them it is at worst only 1 in my humble opinion.

Loftwing
MalcolmTucker
Shoshin
Fredrick A Campbell
Cat Scratch Fever
FancyPants
Irrelephant11

And then to add on to that, I would say Mala after her recent postings and Kenny, are both also townreads for me although I am not confident enough to lock them in. Mala is closer to townlocking than Kenny here in this case.

This leaves us with a trio of BBT/Lowell/Eiralox

Look at how high up Fred, Loft and Shoshin are here. BBT/Lowell/Eira locked in as main targets, kenny and mala left on the backburner to switch to later as easier targets(See this in D2)

[Eiralox]

VOTE: Lowell

Guy is completely disengaged from the game and just AtE'd hard.

I'm not advising this at all. My advice is DO NOT vote Lowell today, rather leave that slot for the night. I can't stress how much I'm going to be against a Lowell elim today. Why toffee? Dunn going nowhere? You afraid if it's not dunn you're going to be the target, with cw wagon going nowhere? Lowell is not a good elim, and I'll fight tooth and nail against it.

[Eiralox]

Lowell.... I mean i admit i'm not best gutreader but I have many reasons to be against that flip. I'll go into a Lowell ISO after CW if that is required, i dont really want to but rn im feeling strongly enough to defend there. I mean yeah it's a low effort low info slot but i still have my reasons. Mala was even lower effort and lower info and look where that kill got us after i hinted they're VT?

[Eiralox]

Yup, I'm aware of that. My feel is Lowell simply doesn't care, and is irked about engaging with cw(as am I tbh, it gets real messy real fast.) But i'm re-focusing on my cw shit rn, i might offer hard reasons for Lowell not being scum later on. I agree Lowell needs to talk more, but rn I believe they are town and they simply want to get shit over with(As do I.)

[Eiralox]

CW

#735

"No I think Shoshin or MalcomT is not that useful right now and I think they are town"

^^ Note the lumping in of Shoshin with Malcolm, before this Loftwing was lumped in with Malcom for 'meta' townread.

#787

"What signs do you see me being scum?

And why is Loftwing a good flip? Over Eira even?"

I mean.... anyone who paid honest attention to Loft wouldve seen them as an acceptable vote. Only Toffee and CW did not want that, and Eira with the unvote allowed Loft to escape.

#820

"Shoshin i will be extremely dissapointed if you help town lose this game because you think your solutions are the only correct ones."

Again a post in much the same vein as the other interactions with Shoshin, basically: Shosh, you're targets are wrong.

#821

"Loftwing i get the vibes thing on Fancy but im pretty sure they are town
I know you're trying your best to help people find you and I'm sorry there are stubborn townies this game being unfair to thay and intentionally ignoring it."

Much the same as 820, open sympathy to Loft(which I never saw from Toffee) and again much the same as Shoshin: Loftwing, change targets. This can be out-of-chat mafia cw.

It's hard to vote off Loftwing based on your input because your reasoning for him being Town is meta related, and when I did my dive (admittedly before I knew he was an alt) I didn't find the same.

As for your case on Eira I think I understand your jist but what I don't see is why "Eira is just wrong and bad at cases." is a worse explanation. Additionally it's partially supported by your surety of everyone else's alignment (you could only know Eira is making reads based on knowing everyone's alignment if you ALSO know everyone's alignment, I hope that makes sense).
I understand you could just be that sure of yourself, or at least pretending to be but it's kinda weird and difficult to just sheep.

I'm willing to compromise on Lowell as a "let's avoid loftwing vs eira" thing.

I'm not feeling Loftwing *at all* and I'm seeing their towngame here.

VOTE: Lowell

also BBT's last post being actually towny making me feel better about untownlocking irrelephant in my reads... because now I got a wild potential world of Irrelephant/Eira/Lowell

Eira is going nowhere, Loft is not an option, let's vote Lowell. Toffee suddenly moves up and Irell down.... not anything to do with toffee townreading Loftwing perchannce?

[Eiralox]

I'm so far behind in this game, only read properly up to page 11.

Loftwing wagon seems bad though, likely scum on that push. Gonna try my best to catch up today

this is the post that makes CW consider Irrel more scum than Toffee, for reference.

[Eiralox]

So... page 11, not caught up, Loftwing bad: CW sees this as town. The only plausible reason: Here is someone townreading Loftwing. Other CW targets (spes. Eira, Lowell and Irell) are openly hunting loftwing as scum at this point.

[Eiralox]

Let me sell you what I'm seeing in a way that you may see more clearly:

So you said earlier that you feel there's scum pushing Loftwing, no?

Well, if you look back, both Lowell and Eira switched their vote to Loftwing once a wagon on themselves started building.

My conclusion off that was that they were trying to self preserve by voting out Loftwing, rather than being a townie who organically found Loftwing scummy.

Again, it's ok for loftwing to be jumping wagons but Lowell and Eira(who actually found Loft scummy) are self pressing by voting for Loft?

If i die going into day 2, my number 1 legacy is eira scum
Yes shoshin that means you too should vote eira once you know i am town 100%

Lowell/irrelephant/eira is a team im heavily considering with BBT as backup PoE
Everyone else i feel have towntold to some capacity

Again a Shoshin goad. Lowell/irell/eira still seen as it, bbt reads loft green so no use in heavily pusing that slot from scum atm.

Cw,

why

am I town?

#945: Vote Eira

#946: Vote Lowell

I've not particularly SR'd Fredrick for most of the game (found the slot hard to read initially), but I think BBT is very much town, going to take a proper look at their case on Fredrick and see where I stand.

Lowell's posting hasn't screamed townie at me, but some of their recent responses don't indicate a scum player trying to stay on the good side of town either.

Fredrick is town, probably PR, we are NOT voting there.

he has clearly played in a non agenda way do not fucking counterwagon them last second.,

*sigh*

#966

i mean i also voted fred after saying i wont but my poss. of scum fred came from way early, even before toffee vote. CW basically reads fred pr, goes over toffee case, and votes.

Your case implies Irrelephant scum which is why I'm asking because I believe that slot is actually not as town as I first believed.

I admit I'm mostly scumreading Lowell for how they defend Eira in such a subtle yet overt manner.

Fredrick is also here defending Eira without explaination.

TBH

I feel a little less against it purely for the fact Fredrick has gone against my own reads so

here we go. Shoshin is going against cw reads but that's ok, shosh is tpown? loft goes for fancy and cw 'corrects' that? But here a player spewed town, spewed pr by CW, like very very recently, is suddenly ok to vote cos that can confirm Irrel as scum, after Ireel shifted down in reads co Toffee townread Loft? This.....

I mean i was null to scum on CW here, but even then something about this post didnt feel right. in retrospect its even worse.

fuck it
VOTE: Fredrick

I see it now.

I really had to fight the urge to unvote Fredrick here. It's a wonder I didn't, i decided ya'know cw can be town let's see cos after loft claim fred was the only place i culd really see scum D!, or enough to vote.

[Eiralox]

if this flips town pls turbo eira/lowell tho

i think BBT's reasoning on this was town motivated even if it leads to an incorrect conclusion

*sigh*

Even at the time i figured this was very very convenient for Scum! CW. Once fred flips green, we're back to Lowell/Eira. No mention of Irrel. And if even fred flips green, right, even tho BBT pushed so heavy on that wagon, BBT must be town, and Lowell and Eira is still it. Not anything 2 do with Toffee townreading Loftwing, no sir, move right along.

[Eiralox]

And also, forgot to mention about #1739 which I felt then but never mentioned: Just the certainty oozing out of CW in above words that Fred is indeed town.

[Eiralox]

about #971 sorry. I guess ill continue with this later?

[Eiralox]

It's hard to vote off Loftwing based on your input because your reasoning for him being Town is meta related, and when I did my dive (admittedly before I knew he was an alt) I didn't find the same.

As for your case on Eira I think I understand your jist but what I don't see is why "Eira is just wrong and bad at cases." is a worse explanation. Additionally it's partially supported by your surety of everyone else's alignment (you could only know Eira is making reads based on knowing everyone's alignment if you ALSO know everyone's alignment, I hope that makes sense).
I understand you could just be that sure of yourself, or at least pretending to be but it's kinda weird and difficult to just sheep.

I'm willing to compromise on Lowell as a "let's avoid loftwing vs eira" thing.

I'm not feeling Loftwing *at all* and I'm seeing their towngame here.

VOTE: Lowell

also BBT's last post being actually towny making me feel better about untownlocking irrelephant in my reads... because now I got a wild potential world of Irrelephant/Eira/Lowell

Eira is going nowhere, Loft is not an option, let's vote Lowell. Toffee suddenly moves up and Irell down.... not anything to do with toffee townreading Loftwing perchannce?

And what I'll add here, BBT was reading Lowell town, only other one to do so at the time D1 beside me iirc.

So here's the train of logic and one of my main points for scum! CW D1:

-Shoshin and Loftwing are ok when they don't agree with Confidently Wrong reads, CW won't vote them but publicly tells them to change their tune.

-Toffee gets downgraded to scum after many ppl townread Mala(making for a harder target), then toffee gets upgraded above Irrelephant directly after toffee townreads Loft but while Toffee is still townreading Lowell and to a lesser extent Eira

-Toffee case on Fred is go, CW first says no, Fred pr. Then the switch: Fred is going against CW reads, esp. regarding Eira, all this raises Irrel as scum above Toffee(While toffee is still townreading Lowell and Eira as well.....)

-Then the vote: CW votes with Eira, Toffee, Lowell, and Irrelpahnt(All who are being scumread by CW) and shoshin with the hammer.


I mean I don't think I have to say more about above post. I'll see if I can get back to doing these in order whenevr.

[Eiralox]

Loftwing what do you think about Confidently Wrong?

Currently they have little credibility in my eyes, and I don't trust a word that comes from their fingers. I would be willing to throw a vote down on them should the current wagons cease to prevail.

OK, so at the time of this post we had Lowell with 3 votes and Kenny with 2. They were the only real wagons being pushed discussed in thread.

Loft was on neither of these as he had recently unvoted Kenny. So why did he use the current wagons as an excuse to not vote for CW who he felt quite strongly about at that time?

I was also thinking this at the time RE: this post, the way Loft's words sound as if CW is scum but later actions loft treats CW as if they aint?

[Eiralox]

Why did Kenny saying “actually I wasn’t trying to offer you any reads in that early game longpost” satisfy you that he is town? The fact remained that he had written a bunch of words without advancing the game at all

Why does Eiralox’s confusing use of the word “null” still make him the scummiest player in your eyes? It seems like you’re choosing to be obtuse there as an excuse to keep a scumread, he’s obviously got reads and just doesn’t like to call them reads for some weird reason

Kenny clarified what his earlier post actually meant, becsuse we the people misinterpreted it. In light of his clarification, the post made more sense, so my objection was addressed.

Eiralox does have players outside of his nullbin, or at least I assume that's what they meant. So why not then seperate either kenny or cw from the nullbin then, is my current objection.

this post felt very weird to me, and now coming back to it i have on theory, don't know how it holds out: Scum team wanted to know who I judged more scummy between kenny and cw. At the time my instincts felt this sorta? I don't remember exactly but meh, i've adressed loftwing's weak push against me and.....

one of the central themes of loftwing push wasnt focused on my other null reads, but specifically on kenny/cw. Loft seemes very wound up about those specific two, perhaps(as ive said at multiple times D1 that im not scumreading cw) perhaps to make me place cw above kenny in estimation?

Perhaps this post wasn't a mere push on Eira and defence of kenny but had some ulterior purpose.... we'll see i guess

[Eiralox]

It was a way to extort a read out of CW, which reflects bad on anyone not wishing to do the same on someone else.

?

It was a way to extort a read out of CW, which reflects bad on anyone not wishing to do the same on someone else.

This assumes I'm not making a push to get a better read on BBT.

Were you making a push on BBT to get a read on them?

Now that you mention it, kenny hasn't said anything of substance despite saying many things.

VOTE: kennyk

quick hop onto kenny. would scum be pointing attention their partner's lack of substance?

UNVOTE: Kennyk

I like their recent posting, it feels a lot better than before.

Quick unhop. Might be off partner, might be to show hey loft is actively forming reads, and might be to later set up kenny.

Why are people voting Lowell? I don't see them being scum here. They haven't left much to be desired.

This defense of Lowell... might be Loft setting themselves up as town, if Lowell wagon gets a flip can say "Hey look they were town" while CW, as the main to push later on Lowell, does creates distance between scum partners.

A classic tactic for less experienced mafia is to try to mimic towniness by trying to loudly proclaim how unsure they are of people's alignments to LAMIST their way into seeming uninformed

Do you think this does not equally apply to me? If not, why not?

I think this is the other interaction besides Loftwing asking cw why they're town? This can be Loft asking town CW to confirm Loft further, or can be scum tactic to create distance while still having the facade of suspecting one another.

Before I jump ships again, this time from Mala to Eiralox, let me backread them.

Ok, so Loft comes back, CW has launched Eira wagon with flying colors. Loft says yeah imma vote Eira but let me get some reasons first, suggesting loft knew in scum chat that eira was the target.

Can I specifically get clarity from Kenny and Loftwing, exactly what they think of Eira and why, I know Loftwing gave reasoning when he voted, but can you clarify why her behaviour is scummy in your eyes.
Please don't say you have no opinion.

@Loftwing, nice Hamilton reference.

My reasoning for voting Eira is that they see CW, someone who they have fought and who they have said they think worsely of, and Kenny, who they have stated a greenlighting towards, are both equal in terms of scum equity, as that is what null means.

In other words, despite saying that they like Kenny and hate CW, they still say that they are equal and are both null.

here is the first mention of CW/Kenny in relation to my reads. Basically, I hate CW, like kenny, so why both null(both were null to me at the time iirc, with cw a bit more likely? Felt green on kenny for a bit early D1.

Anyway, this attack on me can very much be farmed as a soft defense of CW, or kenny maybe but i'm starting to move away from that.

Whoooopy ride man wtf is going on here. Ive felt better about kenny. Cw I wanted to expand. Theyve been one sentencing this game. Loftwing is my prob vote target atm. Ill go through what they did then come back with conclusion.

What I am saying is this:

Kenny is good to you. They are what you have considered to be greenlit.

CW is bad to you. They are what you have considered to be "worse and worse".

They are both null to you.

So, one would conclude that Kenny =/= CW for the first and second statements, but then would conclude that Kenny = CW at the third, which is a contradiction.

You both imply they are different yet state they are the same. Which is it, my good, honorable, and reasonable man?

So yeah I'm feeling it more here. Very close attention is paid to my reads of CW, what little i've said about kenny at this pouint is also taken very seriously. My other null reads and scumleans and whatever don't seem to be taken into account here, the cw/kenny focus is key.

Why are null reads scummy?

They aren't inherently scummy, even holding a royal estate of all 12 at once (of which I am now slightly kess sure of), but what troubles me is that they both equare Kenny and CW this way as null, yet also divide them in twain with Kenny being better than CW.

They are both different, and yet also the same.

Again, third time here. Loftwing seems bothered that I place Kenny above CW, maybe scum want an easy Kenny elim later on?

Why did Kenny saying “actually I wasn’t trying to offer you any reads in that early game longpost” satisfy you that he is town? The fact remained that he had written a bunch of words without advancing the game at all

Why does Eiralox’s confusing use of the word “null” still make him the scummiest player in your eyes? It seems like you’re choosing to be obtuse there as an excuse to keep a scumread, he’s obviously got reads and just doesn’t like to call them reads for some weird reason

Kenny clarified what his earlier post actually meant, becsuse we the people misinterpreted it. In light of his clarification, the post made more sense, so my objection was addressed.

Eiralox does have players outside of his nullbin, or at least I assume that's what they meant. So why not then seperate either kenny or cw from the nullbin then, is my current objection.

And here for the final time mention of cw/kenny in relation to Loft's push on me. Here is a more hard defense of kenny and this can sway me to kenny slot being scum. taken into the whole though, no not yet, my flip order is still cw>kenny slot(sorry i keep forgetting the name with a C ill remem it)

What're your reads, Loft?

Town

Fredrick A Campbell
Confidently Wrong
---
Cat Scratch Fever
BlueBloodedToffee
Lowell
Irrelephant11
MalcolmTucker
Shoshin
Malakittens
---
kennyk
FancyPants
Eiralox

Scum

So here we go. After all of that, CW is second from top and Kenny is third from bottom. At this point what would loft do? Would loft put a partner at the top or at the bottom? And here, throughout this thread, Loftwing has said how good they feel about kenny, how kenny has changed their tune and is now better, but here kenny is still scum.

CW, meanwhile, has been one question from Loftwing, and one post(the one BBT mentioned) where Loft really seems to dig into CW, but still offers no hard reason for it.

[Eiralox]

Dunn, dunnstral is Kenny, not a name with C xD fml.

Anyway right now I'm still feeling CW is the final scum, and if not, we flip Dunn. More analysis might be incoming later, eh.

[Eiralox]

If Lowell gets eliminated and flips green you’re getting bogged, you know that right CW?

don't flip lowell.

[Eiralox]

vigged*
lol autocorrect

oh lol XD XD I think i need to go relax

[Eiralox]

If Lowell gets eliminated and flips green you’re getting bogged, you know that right CW?

Irrel I really think right now CW uis the best flip, then Dunn/BBT before Lowell. As I said to toffee i'll defend Lowell if ya'll push that way, I mean ur choice but i'll make my case none the less.

[Eiralox]

Spoiler:

Literally just skimming to look for votes and I’ll join a Lowell or Fred wagon but I really don’t feel confident that enough players are around this weekend to do anything new

What's the vote count?

We got 12 hours.

Fred is on 3 votes, 5 if you two join the cause. 6 as Fancy will vote if needed towards deadline.

Only need one more.

And we're deciding between Loft and Fred?

Looks that way, not sure what Loft is on

Can you summarize your understanding of the game for me? I haven't been following this game too closely.

Wagons were loft eira llowel. You put loft at -1. Fred expressed intent to hammer. I unvote loft. Loft claims one shot neigbourizer and secret role. Loft votes lowell. I vote fred with toffe. Lowell votes fred. Cw votes eira then lowell. Pants votes lowell. Cw votes fred. I think that its shoshin. Im in moobile so wont do effort to backread n list who sus who n all that frivolry

I'm just gonna sheep Irrel today.

I'm just gonna sheep Irrel today.

i pray that my read on irrelephant is wrong because if irrelephant is scum i see you being tunneled in on that slot being town and being pocketed to no end.

asking you directly to make sure when you end up in limlo that you actually critically think about *why* you are there and why other people are there.

If I'm in limlo with Irrel, I'd vote him immediately without second thought.

ok based

Ditto. If we’re t/t we either win or one of us gets NK’d by then

Is Fred the loft alternative? Should fred claim or is that too much claiming?

Fred is the Loft alternative.

I think we let him claim but it shouldn't change too much.

Ditto. If we’re t/t we either win or one of us gets NK’d by then

Is Fred the loft alternative? Should fred claim or is that too much claiming?

Is this really the case? What about Lowell?

Idk I’m just checking in and skimming for votes. It’s a holiday weekend. I think loftwing is probscum regardless of PR claim but I haven’t read like 5 pages or so. Just waiting to be told to switch or for people to finish off loftwing

You don't think Neighbourizer is an awful fake claim? Like, even if I'm a scum Neighbourizer I come up with something better than that

I'm basically quoting an entire page here. Here's why I'll flip Toffe before I'll flip Lowell. I think Irrel has just moved into my townlocks with Lowell and Malcom.

[Eiralox]

Looking at this makes me worry about CW, he's on a wagon with his other 2 scum reads.
Surely in CW's mind that's not the scum trio.

Regardless it's too late for that. I'm going to stay up for about an hour but then I'm really pushing my bed time.

Exactly why I almost unvoted when CW voted Fred.

Kill Fred->Irrelephant->Eira on a loft town flip

irrelephant->eira->lowell on this flipping town

And here, after what Fancy said, we still see it in motion, and Irrell called out this post:

Here CW is voting Fred with Toffee, Eira, and Lowell, all who CW had scumread at various points(and being more green on toffee after loft townread). And later Irell also joins but CW stays on.

And yet... in 1008, while voting Fred with Tof, Eir, and Low, CW is saying Fred, Irrel and Eira must die if Loft flips town? The wagon is going full steam fred, so why consider a loft flip at all at this point? Why only hint that loft is flipping town.

Then comes 1052: An upgrade, if you will, for now the town flip being theorized(with such certainty, might I add) is Fred's, and yet the scum consideration still goes to Irrel-Eira-Lowell, all who voted Fred, two who voted Fred before CW did and... how convenient, D2 CW is still on Lowell/Eira at the beginning.

After my strong pushback comes CW's sudden and very exhibitionistic townbreading of me, with the focus shifting to Lowell/Kenny. Then end D2 ppl start saying we gonna flip kenny/cw with vote/vig. Lo and behold, D3 CW is suddenly against Kenny elim and only for Lowell, and now is sorta shifting to Toffee as well after Dunn's entrance(while at various points during D1 and D2 CW was for a kenny flip, now it is anathema, now that we want to flip dunn/cw?

[Eiralox]

yeah CW well played what a defense.was expecting more from u D3. again, end this shit. i might continue my case later or not we'll see. meanwhile im out

[Eiralox]

Loftwing saw me townread them and used that to hide behind me but no im scum with them

Town has never hard defended mafia in their life amirite. I guess that tracks with why you think lowell has to be town... you're hard defending them so.they cant be mafia!! Impossible! Would destroy your whole argument on me, if one ignores the fact that it would mean lowell scum and game over.

My case goes way deeper than this. The entire dynamic between Loft and you feels off, as it does with loft kenny but less so to me. Lowell was my top pick for a vote early D1. Since then I locked them town, and there they stay until D4, if both of us are alive and if D4 even comes at this point.

You expected more? No you are lying now. You had your mind set. You can say you're scumreading me, but dont fucking lie to me that you were open to townread me.

I really did. I truly did, like just I expected a more civil discourse at this point. I'm not cussing or insulting you like a dog, and I'm not gonna. That's why I'm wary of engaging with you. And yeah I expected more. If you are town, I really expected more. Right now, and through much of day two and three, I can't shake the feeling that you're scum salty cos their team lucked out with vig/tracker.

Your case is embarassingly filled with bias. It will look extemely clownish post game. My case on lowell is what a proper scumcase looks like that takes into account things you might see as town

Like I said, I don't care. It's you over Lowell right now and that ain't gonna change. And I am a clown, haven't u noticed ; )

Also eira you're not going to convince irrel or dunns for that matrer because they both know ive towntold out my ass because i can continue to produce content which is extemely towny for me. You've never played with me before, people like Enchant and Dunns have.

Good for them. If they can peg CW in a heartbeat, let 'em. Or they can go over what I said, what you said, and reach their conclusions. Im not going to push them either way, as I said earlier, the only hard push I'll make today is against anyone who wanna elim lowell.

'nuf said I guess, peace/

[Eiralox]

VOTE: kenny. It's him or CW and I'm tired of arguing with CW.

@KittyTacky I think Lowell is voting for Dunnstral?

[Eiralox]

Eira im going to be brutally honest. you are not a player who as far as I can tell is some sort of mafia prodigy who has way better reads than other people. If you're along on your island you are probably wrong. Just like how I was wrong alone on my island on Loftwing. You won't listen to that because it's coming from your super duper confident scumread of yours but its the fucking truth lmao and its extremely frustrating to argue with you because like i mentioned before you are both confbiasing your conclusion and working backwards and also refusing to acknowledge logic that opposes your view.

like whatever tbh appeal to authority. i'm scum hunting, plain and simple. step out of your panic room and actually approach me or stop whining about my methodology like a goblin with a stick. i'm done for now, ill build my case further and post it but i wont engage with you cos u toxic and that makes me toxic.

id rather have good vibes

And honestly even if im wrong idc. I'm pretty sure which three players scum are in, we have breathing room, so i won't she any tears for a cw mis-elim at this point unless you make some major claim, after the investigative roleclaim you made, which you then retracted. but have fun, and make sure to remind everyone how your irrel read shifted only because toffee townread loftwing ; ) Like i'm not engage with you because there's still D2 and D3, your entire 'case' on Lowell, for me to cover.

Hav fun tho.

[Eiralox]

Eira you expected me to not push Lowell and push Enchant. That is exactly what you wanted. You think that as town I will do exactly that. You are

PROJECTING

YOUR thought process onto ME. I am NOT YOU. I hate when people project onto me and it is obnoxious. We are not the same. We do not think the same. You are not going to get me to act like you when you're town. Because I dont act like you when I'm town. I act like this. This is town me. And I've been trying to get you to accept that for a while but hey.

remember how you almost shouted at me about how i vote wrong day one? welcome to the club bub.

[Eiralox]

Ok Eira - let's lay out the logic here so I can show how ridiculous you are in assuming it is only scummy:

Ok? No. I'm not engaging with you before you adress my various points re: loft, shoshin, fred, irrel, toffee, all the things i've said. That's where my case is, not in arguing semantics. so no im not takin this 2 seriosuly, i've said a bit about you D1/early D2 and that's where i'm at.

You townread someone really hard. like REALLY hard. They're townier than anyone else. You dont know their alignment though, theyre a scum who is fooling you at that very moment. This can be Player A.

Oooh a hypothetical! What fun. Rn I have my townreads. If we somehow get to D4, my townreads, and yes, my Lowell read, can change. I'm not gonna hop onto your desperation wagon, your earlier comments about me having a .... conf bias .... ? Ring especially true to me of you on the chance you are town, which rn i don't care about.

There is a player you scumread really hard for what you believe are good reasons to scumread someone, we can call that Player B. That person is being pushed currently by another one of your townreads, lets call that person Player C. You are sure that person is town but you've never played with them before so you're not quite sure what they're capable of if scum. Let's remind the reader that none of the alignments are known to you at this time.

yeah whatever I'm 100% on board with lowell that it's time to cut out the bullshit. i'm not gonna peddle maybes here but push that scum is in either cw/dunn/toffee and if D4 rolls by i'll recalculate. rn Irrel Malcom and Lowell remain my townlocks, deal with it.

So Player C shifts from player B to Player A in a way that you feel was possibly with intent to dismantle a wagon on scum, and that they were just distancing and got off when it was hot.

It would then be reasonable to think that Player C is potentially mafia with Player B and not be as sure of them as town.


I hope this very simple explaination makes sense to you because I'm reaching my limit.

tl;dr i said i don't care anymore. I'll adress your lowell fluff in my own time.

And just to be clear, i never said you should scumread kenny/dunn above lowell(u said enchant in way above post, which suggests your getting ur info off vc where kittytacky i think incorrectly said lowell votes enchant? cos dunn replaced kenny. anyway....

what I noted that there was that, after you heavy defense of gamma D2, D3 you shifted back to lowelll and.... no one. only now hopping onto toffee. after u voted kenny d2. anyway, long story short, basically you seemed to only consider lowell, as now is sort the case? like sheesh at least be a little uncertain and hunt for other scum cos we have vig? maybe your heart's not in it. but this time im really leaving, gonna spend my time elsewhile, for im getting mean again.

[Eiralox]

Well scratch the “easy alternative” part because I guess Lowell was the alternative? Which is one of CW’s points.

You know what nothing tried nothing gained VOTE: Lowell

unwise

[Eiralox]

10/10

[Eiralox]

Sorry been busy, will catch up on recent posts.

lovely hope to hear from u soon

[Eiralox]

The fact that Backup is compulsive doesh't mean original Vig is compulsive.

yeah when u first asked why we think there's vig and a little before that i also figured there might be other tk role and not compulsive vig? as a poss? the counter this why would mafia kill MalaKittens at all, while they where being sussed for low effort?

The mechanical case for Dunn/Kenny is that slot claimed vt. Scum going to have a nightmare time unless we eliminate some prs for them. Fancy/enchant slot is a problem, plus a vig, plus whatever prevented a kill last night. With me now being less certain on CW (and also lowkey starting to wonder about irrel), I’m good taking what to me is still the likeliest and also certainly the safest elim.

Like I agree with the logic here, rn i'm still mainly on cw/dunn/toffee flips as where the scum'll be. By your reasoning I'd say CW is also a good mechanical flip, they earlier claimed investigitave then retracted it so i don't think we're gonna hit something major with CW even if mis-elim.

===========
I've gone through last pages quickly last night and the one thing i noted(before Lowell now) was how everyone has focused attention off Dunn. I mean yeah Dunn's entrance can be town but still keep that slot in consideration honestly. I'll talk about what CW said later maybe? Anyway, if CW is scum, kudos, they're convincing some of ya'll to step off them.


We'll see how this all plays out I guess, I'll come back in like whenever and actually add something to the game.

[Eiralox]

But Mafia would think Mala is Vig.

Like whatever okay i guess.

ok fair I just thought about this after my above post. I mean poss... and then mafia have possible rolecop on team, so maybe mafia didn't kill to give themselves time to actually find the vig before the pool of suspects are narrowed down? keeping things as vague as possible and pushing for easy elims while hunting for the tk?

My other theory, which I stated earlier, is that Kenny/Dunn scum simply gave up start D2, before or after Fancy claim and Gamma wagon, and leaving the game without replacing out never sent in a NK? I mean that's still on my mind, can be that simple.

[Eiralox]

VOTE: Dunnstral

1. too silent
2. I have reasons to find the kenny slot scum, Dunn less so admittedly bet little to go on. My main point on Kenny is the utter hesitancy to jump onto loft.
3. Vig can sort either CW or Toffee at their own discretion
4. I'm willing to vote either Dunn or CW today, period. I can see scum in the toffee slot but not enough to vote today.

[Eiralox]

And D2 i sorta hinted at irrel scum? and earlier today i townlocked irrel? then i went through irrel iso.... like idk, i mean something feels off but i know myself well enough not to act or encourage action without due reason, this is a light gut feel but im saying cos i might forget. shosh/irrel can be scum setting up town, or it be be double bluff kinda 'look scum wouldnt be buddy buddy like this' strongest point for irrel is loft. worst point for toffee is loft, but maybe that's reverse? maybe irrel and shosh were setting up tof in that one page i quoted? but this is all cloud stuff, i mean i got no real reason not to townread irrel at this point. just sharing? eh.



but anyway here's my flip order an i'll say my read order: CW/Dunnstral>Toffee>Irrel/Lowell>Malcolm>Enchant.

I highly doubt Enchant/Fancy is playing a deep dive game where they gave up their scummy buddy for no reason D2, so 99% town on that for now.

The other slots i'll happily sort in different order if i'm alive D4 and new info rolls in.

[Eiralox]

well ok im lut for now. my gut says it's CW, my gut says at worst CW is gonna be vannila town, but if ya'll are afraid of going CW i'm willing to park my vote on DUnn with Lowell and ride this shit out .....


cos like ive tried to be a little patient here but rn i'm all outta steam tbh. i got my written and gut reasons for both slots at this point if im wrong so be it.

[Eiralox]

Fuck it.


VOTE: Confidently Wrong

@Dunnstral ........................................... like i'll be actively lurking. i'm willing to be very ambidextrous with my vote between these two slots..... so..... why are you silent, and who you wanna vote?

[Eiralox]

Shoshin push on Loft to revote Kenny prob makes them town as well?

i'd have to look this up but im not agreeing 100%? kenny wagon was a quick one early game so i think it would be safe for kenny/loft/shosh to play around with it. I mean when did shosh do this? before or after interest in kenny waned? cos kenny case was mostly a thing of tone and 'empty reads' (I found and still find the loftwwing/kenny interaction very sus) .... so this can be a way for kenny/loft/shosh to muddy the waters without much risk.


buuuuut im not gonna backread it rn and my memory regarding that spes. post is hazy so take what i theorize with a grain of salt. imma be a rat ;m out

[Eiralox]

eira just bc im vt doesn't mean im expendable. Thats fucking horrible

hey i mean i'll kepp an open mind(not in my reads but when it comes to changing my vote and dunnstral's...... coming? hopefully. So.... the reason my head went that way is Lowell's post RE: Dunnstral claiming VT, where it's safer to vote on VT than possible TRs at this point. so yeah. But wow ive been surfgin forums for way too mcuh now rn imma be rat 4 real

[Eiralox]

yeah im not vig here. will catch up when can.

[Eiralox]

ok im around. hear from me within the hour.


Scracthed into a troll's skull, it reads thus:

-.-.---;-


Confidently Wrong (3): Eiralox, MalcolmTucker
Dunnstral (1): Lowell, Confidently Wrong, Irrelephant, BlueBloodedToffee, [E-1]

Not Voting (2): Enchant, Dunnstral

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

---.l---;.---


Ok so there's where we at. I'm here to hammer, see no reason to do anything else. Imma lol if Dunn is scum, we coulda ended this way sooner. I'll give this 3-4 hours unless someone else wants to weigh in. I'll share where am it later on.

For now this is my suggested flip order, i'll talk about it maybe?

Dunnstral>Cw/Irrel>Lowell>Malcolm>Toffee/Enchant

With no cc, and with me not seeing scum being so bold as to claim vig here lol, Toffee and Enchant are my surety town for now.

[Eiralox]

Day 3 ends in 0 days, 4 hours, 54 minutes.

ok sooooooooo.... i'll hammer in 3-4 hours depending. out for now, i'll be around.

[Eiralox]

cool cool

[Eiralox]

Confidently Wrong (3): Eiralox, MalcolmTucker, Dunnstral [E-2]
Dunnstral (4): Lowell, Confidently Wrong, Irrelephant, BlueBloodedToffee, [E-1]

Not Voting (1): Enchant

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

[Eiralox]

Eira u townread dunn so hard i see

; )

CW u've been getting me wrong all game. See late D2/D3 me, i was happy to let Dunn hang at any time....... u were the only one who didnt wanna and, Malcolm didn't hammer. I wanted the CW/Kenny flip end D2 hard and was very dissapointed when Mala got hit. So no i don't townread Dunn at all, haven't since end D1, almost voted Kenny over Fredrick, voted kenny start D2, so like imma lol at this XD XD XD XD

Like the only reason i made that case against u at all was cos i was sure where i was with kenny, dunn seemed towny but way too low effort, you were starting that heavy Lowell push, and no one was fucking hammering Dunn, so ya'know if, not one, i'll push the other to get this shit over with?


Like I'll said I'll explain where I'm at later, I stated my intent to hammer and never changed that so your above conclusion of where I'm at is... wow salty, and desperate if you are scum? Sheesh wait for me to explain where I'm at at least(Like I said I wuld) before going full tin foil mode : p

Luv u CW ; 0

[Eiralox]

ok daddy

[Eiralox]

cool cool

[Eiralox]

imma drink coffee then post like my last post before hammering in 2-3 hrs

[Eiralox]

lol don't bounce too hard ; )

[Eiralox]

okm les go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCuubIKo7Ag

[Eiralox]

Dunnstral:

Pretty happy with a hammer here, as I was earlier D3 before the replace. Like if this isn't scum whatever but i'm glad whe've finally reached this point.

Confidently Wrong:

The towniest behavior from CW to me was now, late D3. See: The switch to Dunn BEFORE Toffee Vig reveal. Scum would be liking to leave Dunn alive rn imo(looking at u Malcom and to lesser extent Irrel). CW is obv! scum to me, and as some have stated that they are experienced, and also over-abundantly stated by CW, would such a player be obv scum in a scum team that was bussing? Here's my general philosophy: If something is too obvious I'll still go for it if the risk seems acceptable, it cleans the slate if you will for the more absurd considerations.

And honestly right now i'd like a CW elim just for the lulz :p But I'm still gonna hammer Dunn. So I don't think I need to say more about CW, there' s the name which, scum or town, is apt, looking at who was greened and who was pushed D1 and D2 Xd But I consider myself having an open mind, not a quick mind always but an open mind, so yes right now I can see CW as what they claim to be, VT. The invest claim and later retraction could be a rolecop setting up themselves as town inv but retracting it after things got hot, or it can be purely a town play by CW which I won't analyze in that case cos I don't see the point. Would CW be so bold as rolecop? Dubious but as I said I'm sometimes of a blunt persuasion. And CW not wanting an Irrel vig kill is good, can be theatre but no, I think scum would be happy with Irrel tk.

I think if I were vig I would sort CW rather than Irrel, cos that's how I feel in the end. But, despite Mala and Fred, I still trust Toffee's judgement at this point so I'm not suggesting anything. We're safe here still I think, so don't sweat it too much. My case against CW D3 is way more logical than CW put forth, but I won't lie when I say that, coupled with the Loft/gamma defense(and way more, im not a parrot), a component of my view regarding CW is emotional, as well as absurdism XD What I want to say here is that yes there was swearing and all that but, regardless of your alignment CW, I'm not a hater. I do play offensively, even rudely at times, because(depending) than can produce the results i want, or something more interesting. So nothing I said here should be taken against your person, I wish only the best for everyone out-of-game. I'm not usually so soppy but I think I need to tell you that? Idk why i'm doing it but yeah what I'm saying is never take me too personally XD

Irrel:

I've been town here. I have no case for scum Irrel other than gut feels early D2 and late D3 that they are scum, so while logic says Town! I'll humor Toffee's feel cos I sorta felt it?

Lowell:

One reason why I so strongly townread this slot against ya'll was because I thought it was vig. Now with the toffee claim Lowell is more open to me as a poss but still way way towny by actions alone.

Malcolm:

Not much to say at all, have been a solid townlean for me throughout the game with slight exception of late D3 but otherwise I see no reason to look here yet.

Toffee/Enchant:

yeah I'm done.


Sooo hammer in like an hour? Anyone who's even here ok with that?

------------------------------------


NVM Enchant got i lol


-------------------


Peace ya'll

[Eiralox]

VOTE: Dunnstral I mean let's goooooooooooooooo

[Eiralox]

lol

[Eiralox]

[Eiralox]

(((roguelikes)))

[Eiralox]

I had fun, thanks for host

[Eiralox]

Anyone who wants to try out a fun and beautiful Roguelite, check out Unexplored 2: The Wayfarer's legacy. Seems there's finally a full release now.