Night Watch Open 95 - Game Over before 703

[Crazy]

/confirm

[Crazy]

Umm, Jex, obviously you didn't know this, but this a a Night Start game...

And don't go blaming me for pointing that out, guys, if we're gonna play this game we better do it right.

[Crazy]

Hi, I got some kind of spyware on my computer. Not sure what the heck it's about.

Hey, bionic! I was wondering when I'd finally get to play another game with you.

Uh, yeah, the argument against me is crap, because...

1. I love Open Setups; I look at the Open Setup Nominations thread all the time. Adel proposed both this setup and Carbon-14 recently. (which is running as Open 96 right now) I joined this game because the watcher (WATCHA) is one of my favorite roles ever. And yeah, I join games that I find interesting; I don't go joining games randomly, and I was fully aware of this setup before I joined it, including the part about the night start.

If you want more evidence, you'll notice that I corrected farside on the Open Queue about this game... (she listed it as having 3 vanilla townies, while it has 5) I think this is an awesome setup which is why I joined it.

2. The role PMs are listed on the front page. There is nothing in the mafia PM that suggests a night start. Really, how could there be if the

mod

didn't even know it? Obviously I knew it was a night start from my own recollection.

Good enough, Xtoxm? Did you really think your attack would fly?

[Crazy]

Meh, I like afatchic's plan. The possibility of a double night-kill brings it down somewhat, but the possibility of confirming a mafia player makes it more useful.

And the hider PM is poorly worded. I always understood a hider to be immune from NKs unless if the person he hides behind is killed or unless if he hides behind a mafia. I definitely would like to hear mod clarification from this.

TCS's view is

very

one-sided, indeed.

[Crazy]

Yeah, definitely don't hide behind the same person twice.

I hid behind Panda Stomper (newbiest newbie, less likely to be NKed, duh) and I will hide behind TCS tonight.

[Crazy]

Whoops, I forgot about this game... I'm at school right now, so I can't exactly do anything, but later tonight I'll look into this game.

[Crazy]

(And yes, I was prodded.)

[Crazy]

In my previous game with bionic, he played like this. I firmly believe that his vote on TCS' wagon

was

for what he said it was, to gauge reactions. I don't see his vote on Iceman as OMGUS, either. So, yeah, Bionic's got a weird meta, and it's pretty close to mine when I'm actually active.

As for lurker wagons, OP isn't bad, and I wouldn't be a bad wagon either if you were going for that. The Panda Stomper Wagon is utter rubbish; anyone can see that he's off the site and needs to be replaced. I'll give a

Vote: Camn

and an

FoS: TCS

for that.

[Crazy]

Posting this message in Open 95 and Relative Chaos.

Sorry for the inactivity; I thought I'd get caught up tonight, but at this point it's almost 1 a.m. and I am leaving for a trip tomorrow. Unfortunately:

V/LA until Thursday

I still want to be in this game; don't replace me please.

[Crazy]

I'm back. Actually, I got back last night. I'll post tomorrow.

I'm certainly glad the deadline was changed from November 28th to December 5th.

[Crazy]

Okay, here's just some random quotes:

FOS StrangerCoug for choosing the same person both times.
If you ARE the Hider.. you WANT to hit scum. if You "know" penguin is town.. why choose him again?
If you ARE NOT the hider and are TOWN.... it shouldn't matter.
If you are NOT the hider and are SCUM.. then you want to give out as little info as possible in the event of your lynch... thus you sticking with the single choice.

Hmm, what? Didn't you do the same thing before this? How is this different than that? Certainly if SC was aware of how the hider role worked, he would have claimed correctly... it's not like he'd get away with "targetting" the same person twice, anyway?

Dialogue from Page 6:

SC: "I kind of understand your point here. It's an open setup, so to outguess the mod we'd have to guess who has the role, but role speculation does have the danger of someone slipping up and giving away their role. For example, it's my fault for making it obvious that I'm not the hider. Is it scummy that I made such obvious? That can be debated. The problem I see with your acknowledgement of the danger is that I get a slight rolefishing vibe from it. "

Ort: "You get a rolefishing vibe from me acknowledging the danger? Or you get a rolefishing vibe from me discussing the setup in the first place? "

SC: "From acknowledging the danger."

Ort: "How does acknowledging there's some potential danger of people revealing their roles reek of rolefishing in itself? That makes no sense to me."

SC: "I'll be damned if I know, but something's rotten in the state of

Denmark

my mind reading that. "

Anyone else find this funny/scummy? Essentially, it's:

SC: I get a rolefishing vibe from that.
Ort: From what?
SC: From acknowledging the danger.
Ort: How is that rolefishing?
SC: I dunno, but it is.

Hehe.

Look, Ort.. it was scummy.. but not THAT scummy.
however..Your intense, desperate defense is almost MORE scummy.

Oh, please, don't pull the overdefensive thing.

I think that the fact that panda stomper waited to go last is as good a reason as any to vote him. Between him and orangepenguin I think we have about a 50% chance of lynching scum.

unvote, vote: Panda Stomper 85

The post that started the mini-wagon. It's weird; but I see Xtoxm's point that it doesn't really sound scum-motivated, just uninformed.

Oh, by the way, the only scummy vote on that wagon was afatchic's. SC's vote was fine, and I completely buy that Bionic was hunting for reactions.

FoS: afatchic for mindlessly bandwagoning and HoS: bionicchop2 for OMGUS and not giving reasons for his last two votes.

ICEMAN + SC PARTNERS! Yes?

Omgus is

not

a scumtell.

Kyew Eff Tee!

Last page I implied that a scumteam of bio and afatchic was possible. In a quick reread I noticed that they were the two major proponents of the hypoclaim plan. I'm trying to think of a possible scum motivation for suggesting this plan. It is ostensibly protown, from what I can tell. However, they had N1 to discuss how they'd proceed. I will mull it over.

Also, bio's main priority in previous pages seemed to be discussing how the hider should proceed. Coupled with the fact that fat suggested the plan, with bio quickly agreeing with it and then starting it - I dunno, I'll have to watch these two in coming posts.

I've suggested a hypoclaim as an SK before. Remember, one scum motivation is to try to look pro-town.

It's because I hate lurkers more than I hate my own life. They wreck the game. I think in a Meta-sense it is totally worth it to lynch a few townie-lurkers in order to discourage lurking in general.
In TWO of my recent games the scum have lurked their way to victory because we have gotten SOFT!
RRR! Now I am all worked up!

VOTE PANDA STOMPER!!!

dieLurkersdie!!

Woah... Panda's not a lurker.

So all in all, we are nearly ten pages in and Orangepenguin has added no useful content to the game. i even asked him what his thoughts were, and he adds a one liner about not lynching lurkers.

OP who are your top three suspects and why?

UNVOTE VOTE Orangepenguin

Hey, I was way worse than OP. Apparently I was under the radar.

@crazy - really need more participation from you. I don't remember you being this inactive last time we played in the same game. For someone who really liked the setup, you don't seem to be paying attention to it.

My bad. I lost some of my interest in mafia. I'm behind in my other two games as well, and I'm not scum in

all

of them.


------


My thoughts on the players:

afatchic - Very well could be scum. His weak wagon vote on the TCS wagon is really what gets to me.

bionicchop2 - Everything he's done here fits with his town meta as I've seen it in Mini 614. Then again, I don't know his scum meta, but I don't feel him as scummy at all.

camn - I think she's scum. Everything she says just seems to stick out as scummy to me. Yeah, I know you can't defend from that, but if I feel I want to make a case on you, I can bring some stuff out that bothers me.

Crazy - I'm town.

icemanE - I always find iceman scummy, in whatever game I'm in. That includes this game. His argument with bionic in this game is pretty bad.

OP - Woah, okay, power role claim. I say don't lynch him; wait until he's either NKed or we hit lylo.

ortolan - His theory talk is a null-tell; he's done that before. Overall, he seems pretty town-looking.

Haschel - If I am the hider, as I hypo-claimed, then I know that Haschel is town. As far as I see it, Panda didn't really do anything substantial so that's a null-read, and Haschel is hitting my town-dar so far.

StrangerCoug - Pff, I'd be tempted to vote him for that dialogue with ortolan alone.

TCS - Mixed read, though his links with my other scum suspects make me think he's more likely to be town.

Xtoxm - Is it weird to say someone that posts mostly one-liners looks pro-town? Meh, I guess I like people with short, to-the-point posts.


For the lynch, I'd support camn, Fatty, Ice, and SC in that order.

[Crazy]

afatchic - Very well could be scum. His weak wagon vote on the TCS wagon is really what gets to me.

can you find anything else beside the vote scummy? and i really want you to explain what the problem is with the vote. at the time we had very little information, and very little activity. so i said i thought TCS was scum, and i thought we needed a wagon to get things moving, which it worked. then after the activity picked up i unvoted and moved on to OP, so whats the problem?

The problem with the vote is it was a bandwagon vote and you didn't really come up with reasons for it until later, and that was just about that narrowing down the choices for the deadline thing, nothing about the original post that started the wagon.

And what also strikes me is your position on the OP wagon. Why did you focus on OP and not mention me or say Xtoxm for the active lurking thing? I'm sure it could be applied to either of us.

[Crazy]

Pff, I didn't get what happened until I reread during the night-time. OP's the rolecop; TCS watched Kmd Night 0 and received the targets of OP and Panda Stomper, which is why he said the whole 50% thing.

Crazy is either a townie or a goon.

Why me? In the hypo-claim, I said I hid behind Panda Stomper. So if I was the hider, I'd be dead. So I was already confirmed to be either vanilla or a goon... so investigating me was rather pointless.

I think it's hard to read Post 472 as anything more than WIFOM

Even then, I'd actually be slightly more inclined to believe it's deliberately misleading i.e. the scum were the ones *not* voting for him

Could be. Anyway, it was a good thing I wasn't around at deadline... the first time I read the end of the day, I had no clue what was happening.

And we had no hider death, so we have a confirmed townie in the future... whenever the hider dies.

[Crazy]

Bionic did not claim hider. This is obvious because in his posts before he was

against

a hider claim, because of his bashing-OP-for-posting-his-night-action.

Seems to me like Xtoxm is fishing. What do you guys think?

I'd advise Bionic or the real hider if it's not Bionic to remain hidden.

[Crazy]

Dang, I missed a whole day of theory discussion? That's like my favorite part of mafia.

Afatchic, Iceman, and SC confirmed is awesome, especially since I found all of them suspicious in one way or another.

It looks like the town won, anyway. Lemme figure out the math.

Take out all confirmed townies and you have:

bionicchop2
camn
Crazy
ortolan
Xtoxm

And yes, out of those 5, I do think Xtoxm was the best. D1 I would have said camn, but I started getting a scum read from Xtoxm during D2. But even if he is town, it still looks like a win for us.

Afatchic chooses not to hide tonight. Tonight, one confirmed townie dies. Assume it's afatchic, since he's the only one with a role ability.

Leaving:

bionicchop2
camn
Crazy
icemanE
orangepenguin
ortolan
StrangerCoug

7 people. 4 unconfirmed (bionic, camn, myself, and ortolan), 2 of which are scum. 3 lynches left in the game. Which means we just have to find one pro-town player in that group of four, which is not that hard. Personally, I'm not quite sure, I need a reread. But that won't be too hard to figure out.

Afatchic, if you hide behind me, scum can just kill you and give out no information in regards to my alignment. Or they could kill me and we'd be in Lylo. So really, whichever happens, you have no gain. I'd say hide behind nobody, then we can't be in Lylo tomorrow.

[Crazy]

Oh, all that is assuming Xtoxm flips town. If he flips scum, it's a different story. I'd say hide behind a random non-confirmed (not necessarily me, since if scum know who you are hiding behind the whole thing becomes pointless). If you can pick right, then the game is won right there, I think.

[Crazy]

Meh, I haven't been around. I could try to dissuade the WIFOM-y logic here... but since even lynching me as town can't really

hurt

much, there's no use fighting it.

If camn just hammered me, fine. If not,

Vote: Crazy

to cut off discussion, etc.

Yeah, I'm scum. Good luck, final scum!

[Crazy]

Ah well. Sorry about my inactivity; it was not intentional and does not reflect my scum meta.

Not to say the town win wasn't deserved here, but I think the setup might be a little favored to the town here. I believe that a Watcher is stronger than a Doc, and a Hider is almost as strong as a Cop (it can just be used for confirming townies, although it is much harder to kill than a Cop). The Role Cop, admittedly, is pretty weak, except for confirming ability.

[Crazy]

i like that KMD was somehow notable enough to draw that much attention.

What was it that made you choose him?

He was the most random and UNNOTABLE person that I could find. I was going to role cop Crazy, actually, but I decided to go with somebody random, and KMD had an acronym name, which pushed me over the edge.

Really? More unnotable than Panda Stomper or ortolan, who were both pretty much raw newbies at that time?