Mini Normal 2268 Game Over

[MathBlade]

Hey hey catching up. Seven alive so one of NM/ Shadow are probably scum

Someone wanna catch me up on the cases?

[MathBlade]

Guiltylion was found dead this night.

Their role was

Town Mason

Day 2 has begun and will end in (expired on 2022-04-08 13:15:24)

Looking through VCs and deaths we likely have two conf town. One in a mason and one in a vig shot.

Can we block this and win?

[MathBlade]

Being a normal game vigs can’t be scum aligned
And masons can’t be scum aligned.

Mason and vig claim and talk it out. Then we win?

[MathBlade]

ok so here's a readslist with a small bit of explanation but I don't have a ton of energy for it

order within the groups does not matter at all, just tiers

town: {tictac, roden, marci}
probtown: {koba, dwlee, gamma}
fuck if I know: {HEM, chaos}
scummy: {NK15, shadowgirl}
scum: {meuh}

tictac feels like the most pure slot in the game, roden again just 0% chance of defending me like that as scum, marci's star maybe falling off a tiny bit as of late but I don't see her as aligned with Meuh and I still very much think Meuh is scum

I liked a lot of Dwlee's later posting the past few days and I'm also thinking I'd trust a town!Koba to sort them in the hood. Koba is only not highest town tier by virtue of general paranoia of their scumgame, they're easily the most take charge person in the game here and I don't really object to most of what they've said - they have the wrong conclusions on roden/GL dynamic but I don't fault them for how they reached those conclusions. gamma I am iffy on, I felt a more strong dislike of his posting around the time of E-1-gate but when I challenged myself today to evaluate their explanation/justifications in response to me and others I don't really see any scumtells there and I do think his vibes don't fit what I've felt from his scumgame vibewise

HEM, I see where Roden's coming from and it does feel like at times he's tweaked his story slightly to serve whatever his current agenda is, but it's not contradictory in a fully scummy way and his SR on me clicked a bit more when I understood that his real objections were to me parking a 'safe' vote on Dwlee, I don't think that's inherently wrong to be suspicious of. waiting on more from him though

Chaos I've liked what he's posted but he isn't posting enough of it for a real townread, and if I'm looking for scum on my wagon he's in the pool of potential candidates

NK15 I think has been pushing a lot of bullshit and doing it in this extremely obstinate/confident way that I think feels surface-level town in a "it seems like his beliefs are genuine!" sense but doesn't actually demonstrate an evolving/sorting mind. like his entire gamestate view has been oriented around me being scum from the very start and has not once significantly deviated nor reassessed (I know he very briefly voted Koba but I think that was for show), and I also think he's a smarter dude than to genuinely believe in assigning scumreads to everyone who townread me like he did in 586. no evidence in my mind of him not playing to suit an agenda. also I think the initial fixation on the traitor talk was odd and possibly informed of presence of a traitor in the game. would lim with no mercy

ShadowGirl is kind of a POE pick but I don't think she's actually done anything townie? like she's giving reasonable seeming Opinions on stuff but none of it has once struck me as something that would be out of range of being faked by a capable wolf. I'm least sure of this read but I got a lot of town vibes elsewhere and she hasn't felt townie enough herself to dislodge anyone else

Meuh just feels like scum to me. not all that engaged, surface level reads/analysis, 754 is a bizarre post like she's clearly sheeping tictac, why play the "I didn't

say

I agree with tictac!!" card in response to Koba's question??

[MathBlade]

I'm pretty sure we just win now, don't we? We have three conftowns: me, Koba, and whoever the Vig is. Idk why they didn't kill any claimed roles but uh, I'm gonna still try to win if you just keep me around.

So sounds like Roden is a mason.

Why is Koba conf?

[MathBlade]

I am truly shocked that neither of our two PR roles died?? I'm trying to understand what the play was.

shadow I did answer. you dont like the answer because it requires effort. I intentionally always do this when someone tries to push me to out reads list when i dont want to at the time.

read my ISO and my reads are fairly clear.

I can reply to this now that the Day was over; I did see that you put some reads information in your posts in that Day, I had purposely phrased my question to Dwlee in that way because I was hoping they might be inclined to answer it.

I'm pretty sure we just win now, don't we? We have three conftowns: me, Koba, and whoever the Vig is. Idk why they didn't kill any claimed roles but uh, I'm gonna still try to win if you just keep me around.

Is there any possibility of something wacky like a Serial Killer in place of the vig?

@DkKoba: did you get any significant results last night? Should we continue to massclaim?

The game should have at least one Mafia or Werewolf group (of at least two members). In mini games (at most 13 players), there must be exactly one such group, with no third parties. In large games (at least 14 players), a second anti-town group can be given a separate Mafia family name, or can be a Werewolf group, and there should be no more than two mafia/werewolf factions, and no more than one Serial Killer.

SK is not a thing per the wiki

[MathBlade]

Kinda surprised no vig claim yet unless I missed it.

[MathBlade]

I'm pretty sure we just win now, don't we? We have three conftowns: me, Koba, and whoever the Vig is. Idk why they didn't kill any claimed roles but uh, I'm gonna still try to win if you just keep me around.

So sounds like Roden is a mason.

Why is Koba conf?

Koba and Dwlee were neighbours. On D2, Koba claimed Rolecop and they got only a 'Neighbour' result on them and that Dwlee had claimed roaming doctor to them in the neighbourhood private thread. Dwlee was voted as mafia, so that indicates that Koba is town.

There is no one that has currently claimed vig.

So then Koba is very likely scum. A rolecop doesn’t check who already claimed when town unless given a reason to.

[MathBlade]

Massclaim time. Popcorn?

I'm cool with it.

Your probs scum too.

[MathBlade]

Koba's been ignoring me in neighborhood
VOTE: Koba

This is why it’s staged.
If Koba is called out as a liar Koba looks good but if Dwlee goes down Koba looks good.

I doubt Koba ignores a hood as town or scum.

They hyperpost a lot.

[MathBlade]

Btw koba predicted guiltylion mason in the hood which is probably why scum killed them

Koba can’t both be silent and predict GL mason lmao.

Such flimsiness.

[MathBlade]

will the other mason please standup

nvm please no one answer this

roden is pretty obv mason rofl

Town Koba doesn’t do this either.

I think Shadowgirl is best for today if you don’t trust me on Koba scum.

[MathBlade]

Consider me spiritually on Shadowgirl but vig should claim today so we don’t have to deal with a possible 1v1 tomorrow after Roden dies or scum might shoot the vig and give Roden an extra day to lead town.

[MathBlade]

this is why i outted you roden rofl
I have 0 patience for clears who play like you do when im busy fucking up scum
My legacy is tictac + chaos, if either are a miss, shadowgirl should be a hit.

Cool Koba traitor with Shadowgirl looks real legit due to Rule of 3

[MathBlade]

Just like IV and House were only T/T in a very specific world in my last mini normal.

(This is a crumb that is impossible to discern for now that ive explained to dwlee)

Can I have some context on this now that everything is a mess between ya'll lol

House fake claimed masons with IV but i scumread IV and IV ended up being scum rofl

I was in that game and none of this is relevant

I am gonna stop spamming but if I am a vig and lying saying I am not you’re dead

[MathBlade]

Just like IV and House were only T/T in a very specific world in my last mini normal.

(This is a crumb that is impossible to discern for now that ive explained to dwlee)

Okay last one. You don’t crumb privately to a scumread. Like ???

[MathBlade]

Koba's been ignoring me in neighborhood
VOTE: Koba

This is why it’s staged.
If Koba is called out as a liar Koba looks good but if Dwlee goes down Koba looks good.

I doubt Koba ignores a hood as town or scum.

They hyperpost a lot.

the funniest part of all this is quoting a flipped scum and believing what the scum is saying

Correct. It’s why it’s staged. Dwlee as scum has no reason to lie about the hood activity. If you’re town he doesn’t know about the guilty. This means it shows predisposition towards pushing you intentionally before claiming your guilty if you are truthtelling.

But a preprepared push means like a fake guilty

[MathBlade]

Koba's been ignoring me in neighborhood
VOTE: Koba

This is why it’s staged.
If Koba is called out as a liar Koba looks good but if Dwlee goes down Koba looks good.

I doubt Koba ignores a hood as town or scum.

They hyperpost a lot.

dwee flipped scum neighbor, and noone else claimed to be in that neighborhood.
so would have to be 2 scum actually in a neighborhood together 4 koba to be scum here.

shadowgirl been after notmaf-slot since day1. really don't think that pair is svs tho one of them certainly is.

i think enchant is just town here also.

there's not really room 4 u to be town also, tho i like that u brought a lot of life into the game.

Then you have to be wrong in your assumptions somewhere. Let’s go through them.

We all agree Roden is mason right?

We all agree a vig exists it’s lock town based on normal rules right?

[MathBlade]

And yes that’s why I think it’s a two scum hood likely Koba traitor

[MathBlade]

Like it is literally tantamount the vig claim today especially if I am right and traitor scum would make this possibly elo.

[MathBlade]

We all agree Roden is mason right?

We all agree a vig exists it’s lock town based on normal rules right?

i agree to these

Would you agree that anything after this point is based on reads and not confirmed?

[MathBlade]

two scum hood

doesn't seem to me a thing that might exist.
can u cite a game where one did?

I have to head to a dr appt but I repped into a game where I was traitor scum and had a hood with my buddy.

[MathBlade]

two scum hood

doesn't seem to me a thing that might exist.
can u cite a game where one did?

I have to head to a dr appt but I repped into a game where I was traitor scum and had a hood with my buddy.

i'm not in a hurry

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87284&user_select%5B%5D=32319

There you go

Like I am much more sure on Koba but will compromise to where Roden wants.

[MathBlade]

viewtopic.php?p=12964004#p12964004 This is the flip if you’re too lazy tictac

SvS hoods can and do exist.

You can disagree with my Koba read, fine let’s talk about it but in no way shape or form is Koba conf

[MathBlade]

I don't think it really makes sense to put two mafia together in a hood. If Koba is a Traitor then that was a throw tbh, but I still don't see a reason to put a Traitor in a hood with the scum team. Scum/Traitor hood is slightly more likely than a scum/scum hood, but overall still not particularly likely at all.

If for some reason Koba is a Traitor and actively chose to hard throw the game by bussing the only person who could communicate plans to the other scum buddy, they still lose if we just kill Dwlee's partner.

I think it was a poorly executed bus not a throw

However one of NM/Shadowgirl have to be scum due to lack of hammer

So imho the elim pool should be those three

And still awaiting a vig claim

[MathBlade]

Koba's been ignoring me in neighborhood
VOTE: Koba

This came first

[MathBlade]

You have your OOO wrong Roden

Dwlee claimed Koba ignoring then Koba claimed mason open in the thread

This gives scum kill cover and allows reaction testing for the second masons as evidenced by lack of mason death scum didnt know

[MathBlade]

will the other mason please standup

nvm please no one answer this

roden is pretty obv mason rofl

Yeah I'm Mason, now please self vote or vote Enchant

Double checking myself this seems to be first mason claim.

[MathBlade]

humaneatingmonkey and Not Known 15 was found dead this night.

humaneatingmonkey’s role was

Vanilla Townie

Not Known 15’s role was

Town Neighbour

Day 3 has begun and will end in (expired on 2022-04-15 04:25:15)

Hmmm not killing Roden is odd. Maybe PR hunting?

It’s likely vig shot NK15 because they didn’t post a thing in the hood.

[MathBlade]

HEM tell me, what is the easier claim - me saying there was content that led to a mech guilty from me, or dwlee pretending they said nothing.

dwlee pretending they say nothing actually

it's the same as you pretending there was activity when in fact there weren't any, and you not wanting to illustrate the story for us to folllow

also your ego attacks wont work on me, so just get to the point where you convince us more. right now, we're not very convinced. (same as roden)

don't you think it's on you to provide the burden of proof? not our fault you're so untrustworthy with your mind games

Oh nah it’s to protect Koba lmao.

[MathBlade]

I really gotta go but Koba seems like scum to me and they aren’t even all “Math you’re being ridiculous let me type a long read wall of how ridiculous you are”. They just went “ignore Math” lmao.

[MathBlade]

Mathblade, why are you hard softing vig?

Maybe I am the vig.

Maybe I am baiting the NK since vig isn’t claiming.

That sounds like a you problem.

[MathBlade]

I don't think it really makes sense to put two mafia together in a hood. If Koba is a Traitor then that was a throw tbh, but I still don't see a reason to put a Traitor in a hood with the scum team. Scum/Traitor hood is slightly more likely than a scum/scum hood, but overall still not particularly likely at all.

If for some reason Koba is a Traitor and actively chose to hard throw the game by bussing the only person who could communicate plans to the other scum buddy, they still lose if we just kill Dwlee's partner.

I think it was a poorly executed bus not a throw

However one of NM/Shadowgirl have to be scum due to lack of hammer

So imho the elim pool should be those three

And still awaiting a vig claim

I think it could be both of them, but I feel a little more strongly on Shadow.

Alrighty will vote Shadow when I get back from drs barring something special. I can push Koba tomorrow and you’re likely not gonna be alive tomorrow to push Shadow.

[MathBlade]

Mathblade, why are you hard softing vig?

Koba's been ignoring me in neighborhood
VOTE: Koba

This came first

You have your OOO wrong Roden

Dwlee claimed Koba ignoring then Koba claimed mason open in the thread

This gives scum kill cover and allows reaction testing for the second masons as evidenced by lack of mason death scum didnt know

Koba crumbed Day 1 that they had already discussed the possibility of me and GL being Masons.

Ahh then it’s me who has things OOO.

I still find Koba sus but it’s not as airtight as I thought.

[MathBlade]

this is why i outted you roden rofl
I have 0 patience for clears who play like you do when im busy fucking up scum
My legacy is tictac + chaos, if either are a miss, shadowgirl should be a hit.

Cool Koba traitor with Shadowgirl looks real legit due to Rule of 3

Is this the only link that you've made up? Do you actually have any case against me? Do you have any opinions on the other two players or only me, because I currently have votes?

two scum hood

doesn't seem to me a thing that might exist.
can u cite a game where one did?

I have to head to a dr appt but I repped into a game where I was traitor scum and had a hood with my buddy.

i'm not in a hurry

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87284&user_select%5B%5D=32319

There you go

Like I am much more sure on Koba but will compromise to where Roden wants.

I find it shady that you're trying to put all of the responsibility of the (mis)elimination choice on Roden so that your hands are clean.

No, it was to fake spew Dwlee as town. I faked a slip to draw attention away from my scum buddies and create fake associatives with town. I mainly did so because my slot was doomed even if I bussed Dwlee, but it wasn't true the other way around.

This isn't happening with you vs Dwlee because you both opened today attacking each other. If Dwlee is scum I think it's reasonable to think they would try to fake spew.

Meant to add: who would benefit from pushing Dwlee now?

Greeting pushed Dwlee based no actual read information. They could not give me any reasoning as to why they believed DkKoba's claim, as if they knew Dwlee was going to flip scum and could be certain of the town cred so they had no need to actually say anything.

There has been next to no productive content from the lurky Chaos/Greeting/NM slot. What has Greeting and NM contributed at all?

I am not sure what you’re talking about with “made up link”. I didn’t post any hyperlinks. I suspect Koba. Koba listed three people who could be scum. More often than not one of those three is scum. Is it foolproof, no? Is it a good place to start when I haven’t read? Yes.

I am not putting all responsibility on Roden. I am merely deferring to the person who is read and town. I don’t have a good reason you’re town and you’re a viable partner of Koba’s so compromising here makes sense until I can read the game especially when it might be elo.

[MathBlade]

Idk i am not on like people with long reads and reasonings why they vote, just for sake of kill of blatant maf.

This is actually why I'm currently pushing Shadow.

I am confused by this topic. Can someone eli5?

[MathBlade]

Mathblade, why are you hard softing vig?

Koba's been ignoring me in neighborhood
VOTE: Koba

This came first

You have your OOO wrong Roden

Dwlee claimed Koba ignoring then Koba claimed mason open in the thread

This gives scum kill cover and allows reaction testing for the second masons as evidenced by lack of mason death scum didnt know

Koba crumbed Day 1 that they had already discussed the possibility of me and GL being Masons.

Ahh then it’s me who has things OOO.

I still find Koba sus but it’s not as airtight as I thought.

I think if Koba is scum and Shadow flips town, then they still lose in ELO. We have too many clears for them to survive a vote at that point. Plus I don't see why Koba doesn't NK me if they're scum.

Can you elaborate the clears? I only know of you and the vig whoever they are.

From the POV of a Townie who is not the vig and if three scum we have to hit today or lose
From the POV of a Townie who is not the vig and two scum we have one miselim

From the POV of a Townie who is the vig you’re the only clear which means if it’s elo I vote with you no matter what or we lose.

Btw spiritual vote on Shadow until I see the VC

[MathBlade]

And I am afraid I can only theorize as to why you aren’t dead.

As it’s a normal could be scum were vig hunting or PR hunting or your reads end of yesterday were bad.

Koba scum is a wild card but I think if I am right and vig shot NK15 then HEM really points to Koba scum.

[MathBlade]

Intent to E-1 ShadowGirl

[MathBlade]

I am not voting Koba right now because the reason I scumread them would be they are a traitor mechanically more likely than group scum.

This if my theory is correct would also be elo. However my theory may not be correct so I want time to validate and see it.

Based on the vote spread and how neither of you are hammered it’s likely TVS / SVT or SVS

For those reasons I am not interested in a counter wagon.

I have my opinion but it’s not strong enough to rah rah tunnel.

[MathBlade]

I don’t have to rush and there’s time for me to catch up but and the same time leave impressions as to where I am. That way I can come at this in the best way possible.

[MathBlade]

This if my theory is correct would also be elo. However my theory may not be correct so I want time to validate and see it.

For today being ELO is the math that there's 1 traitor + 1 scum left and then if there's a mislim today and then the vig also shooting wrong in the night?

No it would require two more group scum and a traitor.

Mainly I am a bit confused if the wagons are TVT why you or NM are not hammered.

[MathBlade]

It is possible for that but unless the vig claims then we don’t know if or when they shoot.

[MathBlade]

No it would require two more group scum and a traitor.

Mainly I am a bit confused if the wagons are TVT why you or NM are not hammered.

So we would have 4 scum total in a 12 person game? I haven't played in a nearly a decade so I don't know if that is a set-up that is likely?

Because only NM got to 3 votes (and wasn't hammered). I've only ever been up to two votes.

I see your point. I just got done with a 5 in 19 and this is giving me similar vibes.

[MathBlade]

I might just be paranoid and wrong here but I would rather go slow in case I am not.

[MathBlade]

This might sound rather rude but I worry about NM no matter what because he just trolls/scums as any alignment.

Can you briefly say what NM has done to make you feel that way?

[MathBlade]

[6] Dwlee99: DkKoba, tictac, Not Known 15, Greeting, humaneatingmonkey, Enchant

[1] DkKoba: Dwlee99
[1] Enchant: Roden

[2] Not voting: ShadowGirl, marcistar

With 10 players alive, 6 votes are needed for an elimination.

D2: deadline: (expired on 2022-04-08 13:15:24)

Still have to read something came up. Still working off VCs.
I am kinda thinking that mainly Shadow might be town because she’s off the wagon.

If Dwlee knew he was being down it makes more sense to be frontloaded like Dwlee or TicTac.

I am not feeling Shadow scum anymore.

Could we just throw out my Koba read too and maybe it’s one of TicTac/NM or Shadow/Koba

I kinda feel those are the worlds.

TicTac+NM matches a lot more of a Dwlee knew they were going down than Shadow.

Oh well that’s enough ramblings from a sleep deprived man.

[MathBlade]

Front loaded like DkKoba* omg I can’t type either apparently

[MathBlade]

I don’t like how everyone got quiet….

[MathBlade]

Obviously?

Otherwise why he warning about INTENT TO PUT ON E-1

Intent to E-1 ShadowGirl

This might sound rather rude but I worry about NM no matter what because he just trolls/scums as any alignment.

Can you briefly say what NM has done to make you feel that way?

so u aware that NM gonna hammer anything that he can hammer, right?

Yes. I am aware of that. That’s why I stated intent and didn’t actually do it. Shadow girl’s responses seemed good so I revisited my assumptions.

It was intent but I haven’t actually voted her.

I am kinda tempted more to vote NM.

I find it odd that you decide to vote me when you have a likely guaranteed scum in Shadow/NM. Care to explain why you vote me instead?

Do you think NM and Shadow are both town?

[MathBlade]

I am kinda tempted more to vote NM.

I find it odd that you decide to vote me when you have a likely guaranteed scum in Shadow/NM. Care to explain why you vote me instead?

Do you think NM and Shadow are both town?

shadow been after NM-slot since day1. don't think the pair is svs.
has to be one scum in the pair tho cause has to be 2 scum left and they have to be somewhere.
and that's also why i voted 4 u. 50%chance in that pair 100%on u. (exaggerated probabilities obviously)

This doesn’t make sense though and doesn’t explain anything.

You say 50/50 in NM/Shadow

But then 100% on me.

This doesn’t explain how you get to that point when you’re assuming two scum yet neither has been hammered?

You’re skipping a few steps here.

The only innos are Roden and the vig whoever it is (maybe me maybe not). So I struggle to see how you’re getting to the wrong conclusion.

[MathBlade]

For example if you’re assuming 100% on me am I scum with NM and bussing?
Or am I scum with Shadow and stalling?

Where do you assume two scum left only? There could be three with the Koba theory?

Like I struggle to figure out your mindset here Tictac.

[MathBlade]

This is a very common scum tactic I use.

You’ve created a situation that benefits you to ignore answering the question asked.

Hell it may even be true Koba and Enchant are both town (it’s a world I am considering)

But even if I grant you incorrectly that I am scum you’re still not answering who with.

If I was actually PoE scum to you me claiming vig or not would not change your mind but here you say it would.

Therefore this tells me your vig hunting versus scum hunting and you + NM world is looking very spicy.

[MathBlade]

You’ve used the common opinions that Koba and Enchant are town

Then decided to use that to push me, then if you succeed and I flip town you “reevaluate” and still avoid the dichotomy between NM/SG or at the last moment eliminate the wrong one.

The real question is why you don’t want to take a stance on NM/SG?

[MathBlade]

I already said tictac is scum but no one wants to sheep lol

Koba I am trying to consider you town.

Please stop antagonizing me while I am catching up. K thx.

[MathBlade]

If I was actually PoE scum to you me claiming vig or not would not change your mind but here you say it would.

uncountered vig-claim would be conf.
obviously i don't value my reads oven mech-info.
it's like u confused about how poe works, and i doubt that can actually be the case.

Why would I be uncountered?

Why would I claim under no pressure?

It’s almost like you know I am town versus believing I am lock scum.

Why do you think I am lock vig and still pushing me?

[MathBlade]

You’re assuming I am going to be claiming vig?

Like none of that makes any sense.

[MathBlade]

Like if I am the vig then what? You literally are PoE’d out of any possible world?

[MathBlade]

And again what is your stance on NM/SG?

[MathBlade]

I already said tictac is scum but no one wants to sheep lol

scumreading u would be convenient.

pedit: noo. u not gonna actually claim vig and initiate a 1v1 (as scum). if u were actually one u might choose to (probs shouldn't) and obv that would have an effect.
doesn't really matter if i believe it rn or not, what can be destroyed by the truth should be.

Interesting why do you think I wouldn’t claim vig as scum?

And why do you think as town vig I would eat an elim instead of claiming?

Like no matter what from my POV I see the following options
As town not vig if runup I claim VT, eat the elim, scum don’t know who vig is, vig shoots on my wagon if possible
As town not vig if runup I claim VT, accurately pull the elim off of me, scum don’t know who the vig is, vig shoots whoever if possible
As town vig if runup I claim, we elim in a group of 4.

As scum i get runup, I claim vig, vig CCs and then I get elimmed but I know who to block at night
As scum I get runup I claim not vig and pray the situation changes

There’s no world in which what your proposing happens.

You’re not thinking you are forced to scumread me either because you are scum or have pigeonholed yourself incorrectly.

[MathBlade]

There is no way we don’t elim in SG/NM though
So again tictac what is your stance on SG/NM?

This is the third or fourth time I have asked.

[MathBlade]

So you’re saying you’re doing a scumtell but somehow I am scum? I don’t get this.

I am saying your logic is flawed and somehow that’s a “scum tell”?

What’s a miss marple tell?

Why do you keep dodging your opinion in NM/SG?

[MathBlade]

So you’re saying you’re doing a scumtell but somehow I am scum? I don’t get this.

I am saying your logic is flawed and somehow that’s a “scum tell”?

What’s a miss marple tell?

Why do you keep dodging your opinion in NM/SG?

u are using almost exactly the same argument scum previously tried to use to misyeet me and the sililarity between the posts is a scumtell. named after miss marple who used similar tells to catch murderers in detective fiction.

Just because a scum did something doesn’t mean it is a scumtell.

Almost every scum has written a post with the letter a.

That does not make pointing out your flawed logic a scumtell and it feels very fabricated.

You just happened to have that post and that argument?

No you know your argument is flawed.

[MathBlade]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... Marple-ing

This one works on newer and/or unknown players.

I am not new or unknown.

You’re stretching so hard Gumby would be proud.

[MathBlade]

It also works for detecting town not scum.

Like wtf?

[MathBlade]

“ There are stalls in almost every games. Sometimes the whole game starts out very slow, sometimes a late-Day is passing without any content for days. Even if it's undesired, it's normal.
On the other hand, sometimes the game gets stalled at strange points. A typical Unexpected Daystall situation is the following: it's Mid-game (eg. Day3), there are two strong wagons, both are close to lynch and suddenly the posts get infrequent, the votes are not moving at all. Even prods occur. It's very likely that in a situation like this none of the wagoned players are scum. The scums are in safety so they don't have to build counterwagons, nor pushing a wagon to mislynch – after all, they think being away from a mislynch earns them town-credit. (I know it's not true but many scums may think so!)
Caveat: an early-game stall or a LyLo-stall is never an Unexpected Stall. Also, sometimes a game can get stalled because the most active players are away. So, if you suspect that the game has slowed down only because the most talkative players are not posting anything useful, that's a null in most cases.”

From the same link:

What if it’s TicTac and Enchant?

What if I am wrong?

[MathBlade]

Just bcuz I do something as both alignments doesn’t make it so everyone else does.
Also, my style of referencing other games is different to what I said Roden was doing. My method is more of a “this thing happened in xyz game and makes me think yadayada”, it’s not a direct response to pressure, and instead is a pattern-recognition situation #justNDthings
@tictac

gamma mostly does miss-marples, and does rather well.

I am also neurodivergent and notice patterns? Your point?

[MathBlade]

You wanna go TicTac? You really wanna do this?

Because I am very clearly town.

[MathBlade]

Just bcuz I do something as both alignments doesn’t make it so everyone else does.
Also, my style of referencing other games is different to what I said Roden was doing. My method is more of a “this thing happened in xyz game and makes me think yadayada”, it’s not a direct response to pressure, and instead is a pattern-recognition situation #justNDthings
@tictac

gamma mostly does miss-marples, and does rather well.

Like Gamma is Enchant
Not me

Wtf?

[MathBlade]

Just bcuz I do something as both alignments doesn’t make it so everyone else does.
Also, my style of referencing other games is different to what I said Roden was doing. My method is more of a “this thing happened in xyz game and makes me think yadayada”, it’s not a direct response to pressure, and instead is a pattern-recognition situation #justNDthings
@tictac

gamma mostly does miss-marples, and does rather well.

I am also neurodivergent and notice patterns? Your point?

u were saying it's not a valid thing to do.
i'm saying it is.

i'm indifferent to if we "go" or not. i'm just trying to yeet u.

What exactly am I saying is an invalid thing to do?

[MathBlade]

I already said tictac is scum but no one wants to sheep lol

I hadn't seen the possibility of tictac scum before, but just looking through HEM's posts (assuming them to be the scum NK target, and seeing what their reads were) and feel like I had a possible galaxy brain moment (monkey make some primate noises in heaven for me if I'm on the right track):

can you help me read tictac better? i have townvibes, but i haven't seen anything town-indicative. but you seem to believe he's town enough to sheep his read.

so it's Meuh, ChaosOmega, NK15/tictac right?

i wonder how right this solve is

i wanna start with ChaosOmega regardless

Ok... HEM, what's your read on GuiltyLion, and tictac?

i have no clear read on tictac. they're in my PoE. i townread GL from their reaction to my wagon and how fast it built up and who was on his wagon.

i still think you could be scum, NK15. sorry.

i dont want to end this day without having any extended conversations with tictac, enchant, chaosomega, and NK15,

i also still believe tictac-enchant-dwlee tbh

i can live in both worlds

Although there was similarly as many things that also showed HEM scumreading Enchant too - but if scum!Enchant - given that Roden was doing the same on D2 and wanted to flip them, I feel like that Roden would have been the NK then given their confirmed town status since they were going after Enchant even harder? I'm still torn on the two possibilities between tictac or Enchant as last scum, but I can see a definite possibility of how it could possibly be tictac. Obviously from my point view Math could have put me at E-1 and had me hammered by NM by now if they were the scum team, so I am not inclined to believe Math to be scum.

I'm still of a mind the 1vs1 of me and NM should be resolved today rather than a third party, again if I get chosen today (and everyone will see me flip town) then the NM slot can be voted out the following day, rather than leaving this uncertain situation for ELO if someone else gets voted out today. For now, I'm just going to try and leave as many legacy posts as I can, to show what connections I've made in my thinking, so that can be of future help to town to comb through these interactions.

I am wondering if it’s a 1v1 at all though.

TicTac + Enchant aren’t elimming either
I know I am not scum
Koba + anyone isn’t taking the elims.

So I am a bit confused as to what scum are doing.

[MathBlade]

So you’re saying you’re doing a scumtell but somehow I am scum? I don’t get this.

I am saying your logic is flawed and somehow that’s a “scum tell”?

What’s a miss marple tell?

Why do you keep dodging your opinion in NM/SG?

u are using almost exactly the same argument scum previously tried to use to misyeet me and the sililarity between the posts is a scumtell. named after miss marple who used similar tells to catch murderers in detective fiction.

Just because a scum did something doesn’t mean it is a scumtell.

Almost every scum has written a post with the letter a.

That does not make pointing out your flawed logic a scumtell and it feels very fabricated.

You just happened to have that post and that argument?

No you know your argument is flawed.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... Marple-ing

This one works on newer and/or unknown players.

I am not new or unknown.

You’re stretching so hard Gumby would be proud

.

I said your posts are illogical and stretches.

I have not said invalid.

There is a difference

I am trying to figure out whether it’s town or scum and you seem more desperate to elim me rather than actually wanting to stand up for it.

[MathBlade]

Roden I’d love your thoughts?

[MathBlade]

I am wondering if it’s a 1v1 at all though.

TicTac + Enchant aren’t elimming either
I know I am not scum
Koba + anyone isn’t taking the elims.

So I am a bit confused as to what scum are doing.

So NM + tictac scum theory in my POV as to what could be happening, following the Day chronologically:
- tictac initially voted Greeting/(now NM slot) possibly as a bus, and I will also say that I have very much townread tictac all game so if NM did get voted out today, my vote likely would have gone on Enchant the following day as that was who I was scumreading aside from NM, so they do have some other incentive to possibly keep me.
- tictac was either baiting for me to fake hammer NM to so that I can look scummy and the gambit reads well on them OR when I didn't, they defended me which again, made me townread them even more or + if I get voted out today and flip town, they can show they were defending me.
- tictac is pushing an elimination on you, a third party to this 1vs1 (potential vig - it's basically between you and Enchant as choices for that in this scenario - and as tictac has the belief you've really been hard softing - so they can run you up and get a claim, and if you're townie, they know where the vig is then), if you!VT gets voted out, it leaves the me/NM vote to tomorrow, and considering whatever make-up of town there is, it's a heavy possibility it ends up being me the elimination, as Roden, DkKoba, and Enchant have all already voted for me today and none of whom have voted NM so far.
- Or if tictac genuinely believes you are the vig, then they just need to get 2 other people on the wagon and NM will hammer, who is already so scummy looking but at least they can potentially take out the vig today (even if it means NM gets voted out tomorrow), as currently of your reads you seem most likely to shoot either of them if you survive today (if you are the vig), or at least that's 2 out of 3 choices (DkKoba being who else you've scumread). And the other 2 people who get on the wagon also end up looking horrible the following day.

In general I just get super odd vibes that almost 50% of their total posting in this game has been on this day, and a lot of it is spent arguing with you/trying to get you voted out/bringing attention to you softing or not vig.

What about tictac and Enchant?

[MathBlade]

[6] GuiltyLion: Dwlee99, Not Known 15, humaneatingmonkey, DkKoba, ChaosOmega, Gamma Emerald
[3] Meuh: tictac, marcistar, GuiltyLion
[1] Dwlee99: Testarossa
[1] tictac: Meuh
[1] humaneatingmonkey: Roden

With 12 players alive, 7 votes are needed for an elimination.

D1: deadline: (expired on 2022-03-29 21:32:48)

[4] humaneatingmonkey: Not Known 15, Gamma Emerald, Roden, Meuh
[3] Meuh: marcistar, GuiltyLion, DkKoba
[2] ChaosOmega: tictac, ShadowGirl
[1] Not Known 15: humaneatingmonkey
[1] Gamma Emerald: ChaosOmega

[1] Not voting: Dwlee99

With 12 players alive, 7 votes are needed for an elimination.

D1: deadline: (expired on 2022-03-29 21:32:48)

pay attention

what I see here is a lot of slots avoiding a Meuh wagon. I don't think anyone who has voted Meuh in either of these VCs is scum looking to take advantage of her. and I think Gamma looks especially odd in this light, when did he develop a scumread on HEM and why? Like is it really just 862? And I don't buy the meme reason to avoid give Meuh a "d1 pass" either, and interactions between them are stilted as well

GL suspected Gamma (who is Enchant)
HEM suspected Koba.

Koba Enchant is also a possibility.

Brain is confused.

[MathBlade]

Because PR hunting or vig hunting or Roden didn’t suspect Koba because of the “clear”? Not sure

None of this adds up.

[MathBlade]

Why anyone would reveal self as Doctor, when Dwlee99 was blatant scum and dying like 99%

I am confused by your question. I did a search and Dwlee claimed simple doctor.

What are you referring to?

[MathBlade]

i want to lim in tictac or shadowgirl here

Why ShadowGirl? I am not seeing her as scummy.

[MathBlade]

i want to lim in tictac or shadowgirl here

Why ShadowGirl? I am not seeing her as scummy.

Why not?

Because she seems transparently Townie and one of the few people solving.

[MathBlade]

Why anyone would reveal self as Doctor, when Dwlee99 was blatant scum and dying like 99%

I am confused by your question. I did a search and Dwlee claimed simple doctor.

What are you referring to?

Shadow said that Doctor would CC Dwlee if existed.

But there's no point in that.

I will have to find this area and look at it.

[MathBlade]

i want to lim in tictac or shadowgirl here

Why ShadowGirl? I am not seeing her as scummy.

Why not?

Because she seems transparently Townie and one of the few people solving.

Of course, it's her head in risk of choping.

Who do you think makes sense with Shadowgirl?

[MathBlade]

i want to lim in tictac or shadowgirl here

Please explain. They don’t seem like a viable pairing.

[MathBlade]

If i knew, i would already vote.

Can you go into more detail about what you’re thinking on each viable partner then?

[MathBlade]

Why anyone would reveal self as Doctor, when Dwlee99 was blatant scum and dying like 99%

I feel like that's a misrep of early D2, as there was a point even you believed Dwlee could be telling the truth. Obviously in hindsight it feels easy to say it was a sure thing by the end of the day, but that's not what the vibe was in the beginning of the day. Anyways, that was a sub point of my post, in that I was trying to understand why Roden would still be alive today over HEM. Why do you think Roden is still alive today, then?

What’s a sub point?

[MathBlade]

Why anyone would reveal self as Doctor, when Dwlee99 was blatant scum and dying like 99%

I feel like that's a misrep of early D2, as there was a point even you believed Dwlee could be telling the truth. Obviously in hindsight it feels easy to say it was a sure thing by the end of the day, but that's not what the vibe was in the beginning of the day. Anyways, that was a sub point of my post, in that I was trying to understand why Roden would still be alive today over HEM. Why do you think Roden is still alive today, then?

I will get banned for that.

Confused why would you get banned for answering a question?

[MathBlade]

That is factually incorrect. Roden is very competent. He’s one of the few players that almost caught me deep wolfing in a prior game. I have not seen a Roden incompetent game.

[MathBlade]

Also about NM.

He mostly unvotes self if there's risk of elim or ELO.

And he didn't? So he must feel pretty safe (being scum) - and which if there were two scum on the wagon, then there would be every reason to think he wasn't at risk. Or that if he did flip, it would benefit who was on the wagon.

[3] Not_Mafia: ShadowGirl,

tictac, Not_Mafia

[2] ShadowGirl: Roden, Enchant
[1] tictac: DkKoba

[1] Not voting: marcistar

With 7 players alive, 4 votes are needed for an elimination.

D3: deadline: (expired on 2022-04-15 04:25:15)

Is this ShadowGirl telling on herself she’s scum with NM? I get that vibe. Not sure why I do.

[MathBlade]

That is factually incorrect. Roden is very competent. He’s one of the few players that almost caught me deep wolfing in a prior game. I have not seen a Roden incompetent game.

Then why we don't just sheep him.

Because great skill doesn’t always mean right.

Based on the reactions it’s no longer elo and likely only two scum alive.

[MathBlade]

That is factually incorrect. Roden is very competent. He’s one of the few players that almost caught me deep wolfing in a prior game. I have not seen a Roden incompetent game.

Then why we don't just sheep him.

Because great skill doesn’t always mean right.

Based on the reactions it’s no longer elo and likely only two scum alive.

What team in game then you thinking?

That’s what I am not sure of. Anytime I get close, something else pings me and makes me doubt my prior thoughts.

[MathBlade]

This is exactly what scum rb said in mini normal 2046.

I don't even remember that you offered to lynch january on day 1... was january your town read at that point?

well, I think 'follow the conftown' is a pretty commonsense strat so not surprising that other people have thought about it too.
and yes, I did tr january at the time.

this is possibly the scummiest thing you've said

okay. I still think it's a good strat tho.

VOTE: Zenith

pre-empting predictable response from shadow

I am confused?

[MathBlade]

That is factually incorrect. Roden is very competent. He’s one of the few players that almost caught me deep wolfing in a prior game. I have not seen a Roden incompetent game.

Then why we don't just sheep him.

^what i'm planning to do if i haven't managed to convince him about math by now.

I mean you have me as a scum vig since you said I would be an UnCC’d scum vig impossible in a normal so you’re either scum or irrational so like whatever?

[MathBlade]

Well look.

Roden conf.
Koba... Hell i know, Koba, let's assume conf for now.
Me is Me, of course.

So remains...
You
Not_Mafia
Tictac
Shadow

2/3 for you, 2/4 for me.

I don’t view Koba as conf. I don’t think they’re elim able today if they are scum though.

[MathBlade]

Math claimed Vig?

Well it easies a bit, then probably Shadow+NM?

I did not. I am explicit I did not claim anything. I said tictac considers me a vig and scum which is impossible based on normal rules

[MathBlade]

I kinda find Shadow here is probably town. I doubt she’s scum here

I think scum are nervous about potentially pushing a vig then having to be defensive which causes them to back off.

I think tictac is scummy for backing off and not pushing me hard when I asked him if he really wanted to do this.

So I kinda want to elim tictac here and I get it’s a major OMGUS but I think I am where Shadowgirl is if I had to pick a team it is tictac and NM.

[MathBlade]

Either that or Tictac and Koba but I am kinda settling into TicTac being scum here and he’s scum scared of if I will claim vig or not but he doesn’t want to spew so avoids content elsewhere hoping I spam the game into oblivion and annoy people into miselimming me

[MathBlade]

Math claimed Vig?

Well it easies a bit, then probably Shadow+NM?

I did not. I am explicit I did not claim anything. I said tictac considers me a vig and scum which is impossible based on normal rules

Then i don't understand why you was called scum vig.

Because tictac said if I claimed vig that would change things.

But if tictac was town and thought I was scum no matter what he’d be thinking I would be baiting a vig claim.

So he doesn’t make sense

[MathBlade]

So he actually doesn’t have a PoE at all and hasn’t bothered addressing the what if I am a vig case at all.

[MathBlade]

This is exactly what scum rb said in mini normal 2046.

I don't even remember that you offered to lynch january on day 1... was january your town read at that point?

well, I think 'follow the conftown' is a pretty commonsense strat so not surprising that other people have thought about it too.
and yes, I did tr january at the time.

this is possibly the scummiest thing you've said

okay. I still think it's a good strat tho.

VOTE: Zenith

pre-empting predictable response from shadow

I am confused?

I think it's a preemptive defense of that I'm probably going to say that it's shady to change his vote to me over NM only due to sheeping Roden and not actually having a reads change about me? So with the preemptive quote making it so that it's not valid for me to say that.

Why are you defending tictac here?

None of that makes any sense. Why is tictac preemptively defending against you when I don’t think these people are players. Should be just a simple “dude is talking about wrong game” why the defense? Did you read the post?

[MathBlade]

Why are you defending tictac here?

None of that makes any sense. Why is tictac preemptively defending against you when I don’t think these people are players. Should be just a simple “dude is talking about wrong game” why the defense? Did you read the post?

I'm not defending them, it's the opposite. I'm saying that he's likely trying to preemptively discredit me if I call them out for voting me on of the basis of sheeping Roden and no other reason because from what I understand of the quoted post, their point is that 'sheeping confirmed town is a totally valid strategy'.

Wait so why is sheeping conf town valid when tictac does it but bad if I do it?

[MathBlade]

Sorry I was gone for a bit, personal stuff came up and took all my attention.

Ok so, the reason I say that we have enough clears to just win this is because we have a Mason, a Rolecop, and a Vig. Further, and Shadow has actually already explained this, Enchant is spewed town by scum choosing to keep me alive. I was heavily tunneled on the slot since the second half of Day 1, and I'm conftown, so Enchant had multiple reasons to kill me if he was scum. And tbh, it wouldn't have looked bad for him at all to kill me since conftowns are expected to die. So I don't think it even makes sense as a gambit to try to fake spew himself as town by keeping me around.

Koba being alive as well only makes sense in two worlds. Either they're scum, or they were Roleblocked. And I really don't think they're scum, the Day 2 play is just flashy and unnecessary if it was a bus the whole time. Plus it was way too early, I think Koba knows that they need a reason to still be alive if they're scum, also I'm pretty sure they kill me instead of PR hunting. So I think they're just Roleblocked and that's why they don't have any results. If town, scum kind of does want to keep them around since it makes them look suspicious.

So, from my perspective, we have three cleared players: Koba, Enchant, and myself. If Enchant is not the Vig, then we have four cleared players and it's impossible for scum to win. I think it's better for the Vig to claim before ELO but that's just me.

I still want to vote Shadow, since she has essentially claimed VT by offering to get voted out to clear the 1v1 dispute between her and NM. I also think her flip would give us the most info, since there are associatives with other players there while NM has...literally nothing. Honestly I'm not really sure why they're competing wagons in the first place.

I get this and it’s where I started but I think there’s a dilemma you haven’t considered.

Assume Koba is town and you’re town. Assume Koba was roleblocked/interfered with.
Why is Koba not dead?

This would also have to imply that Koba’s reads are bad.

[MathBlade]

this is why i outted you roden rofl
I have 0 patience for clears who play like you do when im busy fucking up scum
My legacy is tictac + chaos, if either are a miss, shadowgirl should be a hit.

Their legacy reads are here.

[MathBlade]

So realistically I think strictly mechanically Dwlee claimed doctor in a setup with a known vig.

Dwlee is a competent scum player so they don’t claim doctor without a damn good reason to.

[MathBlade]

What’s really troublesome is that a vig hasn’t claimed so I am going to see if maybe there’s another way this death could happen if I am not a vig. If I am a vig please disregard this.

[MathBlade]

I made no posts between these two. Koba just made a joke about not listening to other people at all when I asked them to consider they could be wrong :^)

Do you mind giving me your current reads of the players (town/scum/null)?

@tictac: Do you mind giving me your thoughts on my other post to you, re: Meuh?

HEM/Gamma scum

NK/Marci/Koba one scum

Tic Tac and Koba looking mighty spicy

[MathBlade]

who cares abt claims

(raises hand in boomer)
I can see there's not one single mechplay thing we're gonna agree on lol

I don’t see why Shadowgirl takes this stance end of D1 as scum.

I kinda think we’re looking at Koba and TicTac.

TicTac pushes me to see if he can get a reaction Koba can analyze to get a claim or not from me.

TicTac and Koba are likely torn as to whether the vig is in me/Enchant/NM.

Roden was kept around not because Enchant read (but I agree Enchant is probably town) but because he’ll defend Koba.

This solve also matches the gamestall rule.

[MathBlade]

who cares abt claims

(raises hand in boomer)
I can see there's not one single mechplay thing we're gonna agree on lol

I don’t see why Shadowgirl takes this stance end of D1 as scum.

I kinda think we’re looking at Koba and TicTac.

TicTac pushes me to see if he can get a reaction Koba can analyze to get a claim or not from me.

TicTac and Koba are likely torn as to whether the vig is in me/Enchant/NM.

Roden was kept around not because Enchant read (but I agree Enchant is probably town) but because he’ll defend Koba.

This solve also matches the gamestall rule.

the issue with your theory is

that I know exactly who the vig is.

Maybe you do now. Maybe I played this wrong (and this is still not a claim).

But I think you didn’t at the point tictac pushed me. And that’s not something you can prove or deny.

[MathBlade]

Like you ping me so hard as scum Koba. In all worlds even where your reads are atrocious you should be dead.

The exception to that would be if a protective exists which would match Dwlee’s fake doctor claim

But then we’d have a rolecop protective vig and masons which is way too much power for a mini normal.

[MathBlade]

Masons + vig = 3 innos.

Assume no protective to make things simple and mass claim D1 and Roleblocker to be most beneficial to your case.
Assume scum gets a miselim every day.
Assume remaining town are all VTs.

12 alive
End of D1 11 alive
End of D2 9 alive
Start of D3 8 alive
End of D3 7 alive so if scum get a kill off they win. So D3 would be melo/elo with a guaranteed conf town no matter how you slice it.

Now if I am not generous and rolecop stays hidden then claims on D3 then town immediately wins unless every role is neighbor or goon for scum.

But yet a neighbor + goons how does that help find mason or vig?

I don’t think you can be town Koba.

[MathBlade]

lol did mathblade just slip in the same way in the last time they complained about "muh townsided setup"

No. Last time I was frustrated and off the walls.

Here if I was scum I would take whoever is not my partner(s) in SM/NM and call it a day.

There’d be no reason to push you or complain as through your pushing you’d win it for me.

I also don’t buy you know who the vig is either.

[MathBlade]

a) there's at least 1 unflipped scum, likely 2 -> you know whats likely?

scum gunsmith.

scum pt cop

your mech spec is unimaginative and aims to frame me as scum

just embarassing that i am good enough as scum that i have to bury 2 scum before anyone bothers to even breathe a townread in my direction

Both of which frame as guilties to you if you’re town which is my point in the mech spec claim that they all have to be goons to you. Two town invests (rolecop + whatever scum has) and two masons and a vig can’t exist

So any PR besides neighbor or goon you find would be a de facto guilty.

So it’s not limited creativity it’s that you don’t fit.

[MathBlade]

theories that dont fit will naturally have holes and I will happily expose them all now help me kill shadowgirl, the scum who thought I was going to just tunnel the same reads and would never flip onto her.

So now that I think you’re scum you’re abandoning your tictac read?

Now that when Roden sees the points I am making he’ll unlock town you?

[MathBlade]

what is so strong about town rolecop?

It means scum can’t have ANY PRs.

If scum had a single PR you’d see it.

A single PR of any kind against mason + vig gets instantly not gonna fit elimmed

And scum having no PRs against two masons and a vig and a rolecop doesn’t work.

[MathBlade]

There cannot be an investigative with the ability to confirm or deny in a game with three innos because a conf town would end up in elo or a scum elim happens. It just doesn’t.

[MathBlade]

i think you severely overrate the power that my role has

I think you underestimated the power of the role you fake claimed or didn’t realize there was a third inno when you did. It just doesn’t work.

[MathBlade]

sure, it probably means the rest of mafia are goons - but your idea of balance is not the same idea that the NRG nor RadiantCowbells has - and I even talked before this game with RC about game balance without knowing about this game - and he prefers roles that dont offer hard guilties but add to the game, etc.

so yeah

if my role wasnt able to get a single hard guilty that would suck, wouldnt it?

now - why do you think shadowgirl is town?

Okay now let’s assume for a moment the rest are mafia goons.

That means Dwlee was just a neighbor no power.

How does a powerless team find two masons and a vig?

They have to kill 2/3rds of that pairing to avoid being overwhelmed in elo.

I kinda don’t want to change the topic as I think going all over the place diminishes my case.

[MathBlade]

The moment you give scum an investigative town you gets a hard guilty because of the PRs that exist.

So either A> Scum have no way to find the masons / vig
Or B> They have the way to find masons/vig but then you’re a fourth that gets added to the must kill.
4 kills in 3 days means a conf town going to elo no matter what.

[MathBlade]

What you should have claimed was PT cop and got a second PT on Dwlee. But I don’t think that worked for your planned bus.

[MathBlade]

Oh wait ha that doesn’t work either because that’s not normal lmao

[MathBlade]

ok well I expected at most to only get 1 guilty on a potential traitor rofl

you realize the game started *at* 12 players?

Yes. That’s my point.

And no. You’d get 2 checks off unless you’re lying about being blocked.

[MathBlade]

theories that dont fit will naturally have holes and I will happily expose them all now help me kill shadowgirl, the scum who thought I was going to just tunnel the same reads and would never flip onto her.

What? We've been clashing all game. If I'm scum, why would I think that you're more likely to be on my side over HEM, who has been townreading me and I have gotten along with super well all game? I can't see what is logical about me as scum keeping you around over HEM.

So realistically I think strictly mechanically Dwlee claimed doctor in a setup with a known vig.

Dwlee is a competent scum player so they don’t claim doctor without a damn good reason to.

Broadly, there was no way for town to know there was a vig until today, since there was no second kill on N1. Does that mean scum might be "informed"? Or otherwise the only other way to find out roles is DkKoba with their rolecop ability.

I am going to wait until you catch up.

[MathBlade]

ok im just going to ignore mathblade's trolling

seeya later

So you have no good answer.

I have caught you.

[MathBlade]

I'm going to direct you to the shitfight you had with Ari the last time you replaced into a game as an indicator of what would happen if I engaged you and why I am disengaging.

I, despite popular belief, do not like being toxic and wish to not shit up the game and any feeling of superiority of you thinking I was caught, is simply trolling behavior to me as your solve is contingent on *you* being the setup designer rather than ignoring the reality that we are in where I will flip rolecop and it will not matter.

The problem is even if I am wrong and you flip rolecop we STILL win as we have two conf town. If my Wifom works then zero die and if not one dies. We have a conf town in elo tomorrow. Conf town drives elo.

So even if scum succeed today and get a miselim of me or someone

That conf town just votes and knocks out a scum tomorrow.

[MathBlade]

so frankly, after catching 1 scum already, and you having caught 0 this game - I will take my leave and try to keep the game in a better mood instead (:


seeya!

I haven’t even been in the game a single day.

This is meaningless.

You haven’t caught a scum. You did a planned bus.

[MathBlade]

ok well I expected at most to only get 1 guilty on a potential traitor rofl

you realize the game started *at* 12 players?

Yes. That’s my point.

And no. You’d get 2 checks off unless you’re lying about being blocked.

Did I miss something? Did DkKoba say they got blocked? I'm trying to catch up on what's happening with the set-up talk.

the way you are trying to twist the facts to fit this kind of theory is ngl pretty encouraging for me for finding you scum, thanks for that

You saying I would keep you around as scum because you'd never think me scummy is pretty illogical since there hasn't been any point in this game you've townread me so it's hard not to see it as something other than illogical pushing.

Iirc Roden said Koba was blocked or scum. So I was taking that as Koba was blocked.

[MathBlade]

Especially since they didn’t deny being blocked.

[MathBlade]

Sorry I was gone for a bit, personal stuff came up and took all my attention.

Ok so, the reason I say that we have enough clears to just win this is because we have a Mason, a Rolecop, and a Vig. Further, and Shadow has actually already explained this, Enchant is spewed town by scum choosing to keep me alive. I was heavily tunneled on the slot since the second half of Day 1, and I'm conftown, so Enchant had multiple reasons to kill me if he was scum. And tbh, it wouldn't have looked bad for him at all to kill me since conftowns are expected to die. So I don't think it even makes sense as a gambit to try to fake spew himself as town by keeping me around.

Koba being alive as well only makes sense in two worlds. Either they're scum, or they were Roleblocked. And I really don't think they're scum, the Day 2 play is just flashy and unnecessary if it was a bus the whole time. Plus it was way too early, I think Koba knows that they need a reason to still be alive if they're scum, also I'm pretty sure they kill me instead of PR hunting. So I think they're just Roleblocked and that's why they don't have any results. If town, scum kind of does want to keep them around since it makes them look suspicious.

So, from my perspective, we have three cleared players: Koba, Enchant, and myself. If Enchant is not the Vig, then we have four cleared players and it's impossible for scum to win. I think it's better for the Vig to claim before ELO but that's just me.

I still want to vote Shadow, since she has essentially claimed VT by offering to get voted out to clear the 1v1 dispute between her and NM. I also think her flip would give us the most info, since there are associatives with other players there while NM has...literally nothing. Honestly I'm not really sure why they're competing wagons in the first place.

Here

[MathBlade]

Iirc Roden said Koba was blocked or scum. So I was taking that as Koba was blocked.

I wonder if there's another possibility, like if there's any mechanics on the scum side that can possibly alter results? Or that somehow they can get a false clear? I am trying to think of why DkKoba as town would be alive and I wonder if scum want DkKoba to claim on them for some reason? I asked DkKoba at the beginning of the day if they had significant results (hoping we could catch another scum like on D2), and tictac pushed on DkKoba's response to me, like they really wanted them to share their results:

I'm not claiming anything mechanical until its relevant.

u gonna be nkd tho

There literally isn’t anything

I mean even odd night just pushes the problem down the road.

Koba if a town rolecop on a night that can act has one of three things happen
=> Gets a result of vanilla
=> Gets a result of any PR of neighbor or VT, instantly claims them as scum
=> Gets no result either from ascetic or blocked, which ends up with an FoS on them.

There’s no other mystical fourth option.

[MathBlade]

Any PR besides neighbor or VT*

[MathBlade]

I wondering why you checked me, aren't i was your townread.

Because they’re scum lmao.

Like it’s fuckin obvious.

[MathBlade]

I'm of a similar mind to agree with Roden in his post about his points as to DkKoba being town, which is that the D2 play felt early if scum (rather than why not do it D3, for instance?), and that I think it's a combination of that scum might be hoping town votes them out because of the paradox of "how can they be alive if they're town" and due to my thoughts in my longer previous posts about what their reads were on certain players and how scum likely wanted them around to push them those people. DkKoba as scum is not something that is entirely out of the realm of possibilities, but in general, I still prefer the resolution of the 1vs1 of me/NM to be done today rather than to be left for ELO, because that route feels safer for town rather than for instance potentially mislimming the town rolecop. And NM scum to me is something that I feel far more certain about than any other possibilities.

I fail to see how the day has any relevance. 2 masons a vig and a rolecop (ungated) vs any scum set up can’t exist
Vs
2 masons a vig vs rolecop makes for a mighty fine setup.

[MathBlade]

I'm going to direct you to the shitfight you had with Ari the last time you replaced into a game as an indicator of what would happen if I engaged you and why I am disengaging.

I, despite popular belief, do not like being toxic and wish to not shit up the game and any feeling of superiority of you thinking I was caught, is simply trolling behavior to me as your solve is contingent on *you* being the setup designer rather than ignoring the reality that we are in where I will flip rolecop and it will not matter.

And I would direct you to that game where every setup related conclusion was right just the target wrong.

In the 19P large normal every setup spec conclusion I had was correct. Granted we lost because I couldn’t have the scum I wanted in that PoE because all the town said no 3x in a row despite be being a mason so I had to put Galron as town despite not believing it.

I don’t think you think this is the bad thing you think it is.

Ari was in my scum POE because she refused to look at the reality and someone was a busser there (Andres) and refused to let me hunt there.

Here people disagree with me but they aren’t stopping me from saying you’re scum or I am a bad player for doing so. There’s a difference.

I may not be able to elim you today because people don’t see it, but I sure as hell will not join the Shadowgirl wagon you’re on.

Roden and Enchant are town.

This means the setups are
You+NM
You+Shadowgirl
You+Tictac

What happens next most likely is that because everyone mistakenly TRs you, Shadowgirl likely gets miselimmed. (But hey if you bus your partner I will take it)

Then it’s between you and NM and you and tictac the next day because a vig should never fire in that situation.

So then being outed after Shadowgirl flips town people will realize you have to be scum and you get voted out.

That’s how this plays out.

[MathBlade]

Vig is Anti-town role for shoting Masons and other PRs, while mafia laughs their asses.

Nope.

Novice isn’t anti town even if it misfires on N2.

Mason mason vig still has conf town in elo even if on N2 vig shoots a VT.

You’re welcome to plot it out.

[MathBlade]

viewtopic.php?p=13329652#p13329652

Here.

I had the right solve on D3 in that Titus was coaching Galron and he was fake.

In a 19P normal.

Please stop saying my spec is bad. It’s like not.

[MathBlade]

i had to watch you ruin an easy town win that i setup from the dead chat as you replaced so excuse me for not wanting to feed your bullshit math based theories that have 0 place in the *social* deduction game of mafia.

Again not bullshit and it’s not math theories and it’s setup spec.

And this doesn’t have any weight as there hasn’t been a night phase for me yet.

There’s no way for me to have demonstrated I caught you.

[MathBlade]

Let's just say that Koba role atleast IS real.

And it’s why they will never leave my scum pool.

VOTE: Koba

[MathBlade]

Waiting what Roden says, but even if Koba maf, it's benefiting to remove other maf first, so i can safely shred Koba with bullets at night. Idk if they have roleblocker or such.

Not opposing tho.

I think the other maf is TicTac but could be NM and Koba designed the bus play because their partner(s) believed they sucked.

I have no desire to try to guess which of NM/TicTac it is because I doubt it would go through. My hunch is tictac but I can’t prove it.

[MathBlade]

From where I stand the best way to convince you Koba is scum is to have them be on the wagon of whoever they flip.

They can either bus, which means I can take them out tomorrow, or they don’t. If the wagon is Koba, Enchanr, Roden, plus one then people find that plus one suspicious. When in reality it’s Koba they should find suspicious.

My guess is Shadowgirl gets elimmed with a pool of Roden, Enchant, Koba, tictac and flips green and it’s what you all need to elim Koba

[MathBlade]

Who the hell is Enchanr

It’s you. My r and t keys are close together on my iPhone.

[MathBlade]

I don’t know the why but I have made cases people agreed with the bus was preplanned

Dwlee KNEW he was going down.

Their fight was staged.

I can only answer to what is in thread but Dwlee took that bus and bussed so hard that Koba started a new bussing company KobaHound.

It stopped them from having to discuss hardly anyone else AND HEM saw through it and it’s why HEM died.

[MathBlade]

The only setup that would ever remotely have a shot of passing is 3 goons/neighbors versus this town power.

So then why does Dwlee claim doctor?

Answer: Scum are informed there is a vig from the freaking start so if Dwlee wins he looks to fit
And if he loses oh well.

Like I suck at the social explanations but Koba is absolutely scum.

Hell elim me over Shadowgirl to prove it.

I am a VT no loss there

[MathBlade]

Just in case anybody thought it was a joke, me and Not Known 15 are actually neighbors. I claimed kind of impulsively without them even sending anything at all in our neighbourhood. I'm aware neighbours means I can't 100% trust them, but I don't know how to play around this!! I need help and I figured you guys could help..? (since I can't 100% trust them yet maybe asking

them

for advice wouldn't have been a good idea?) Maybe Not Known 15 might end up hating me for claiming it, but whats the worse scum can do..? Kill us? At least town can work with this info in mind now though.

wait theres more than 1 hood?

i am actually in a hood with dwlee thats why i instant voted them and i claimed traitor to them and their reaction sucked ass


they claimed it was a joke but yeah

theres prob a traitor in the game if dwlee flips scum

Oh look bad setup spec from D1. Dwlee flipped scum.

There’s no traitor else scum would have quickhammered Shadowgirl or NM unless one of those two is traitor.

[MathBlade]

So I gotta work now but I won’t join a wagon with Koba and I want whoever Koba is on to flip.

Your move Koba.

[MathBlade]

From where I stand the best way to convince you Koba is scum is to have them be on the wagon of whoever they flip.

They can either bus, which means I can take them out tomorrow, or they don’t. If the wagon is Koba, Enchanr, Roden, plus one then people find that plus one suspicious. When in reality it’s Koba they should find suspicious.

My guess is Shadowgirl gets elimmed with a pool of Roden, Enchant, Koba, tictac and flips green and it’s what you all need to elim Koba

But when I go green isn't the safer play for town to go for NM as a surefire scum? I don't see how me and NM could be TvsT when I have basically staked my life on this flip. The easy route if NM was also town was for NM to get voted out and I nearly for certain would get voted out the following day. (Or vice versa of me getting voted out as town today, but it's a much a stronger case to leave me and vote me out the following day given how adamant I've been about NM's slot). I don't see how NM isn't in the scum team given the current stall of wagons. So even if you do think it's DkKoba in the scum team, it still is safer play as town to go after NM first (if I get voted out today).

You’ve staked your life on NM scum.
NM + Koba is possible yes.

But that doesn’t mean you are.
I believe NM is lock scum to you.

It’s just that Koba is 100% and on your town flip then NM is 50/50.

[MathBlade]

You’ve staked your life on NM scum.
NM + Koba is possible yes.

But that doesn’t mean you are.
I believe NM is lock scum to you.

It’s just that Koba is 100% and on your town flip then NM is 50/50.

Continuing the scenario of assuming me town (or just what it's in my head in my POV) and thinking of the game state and based on your two possibilities, then if NM isn't scum (it being 50/50 to you), then it's DkKoba+tictac, but that block of two could already have coordinated to vote out either me or NM already (again, the easy play is to vote NM out and I get voted out the following day because of my fervent position). Why wouldn't they have done that already? I think that's where I struggle in the scenario of imagining a DkKoba+tictac scumteam.

Because they don’t have to and the extra elim gets them out of the problem they were forced to create because they had to kill HEM.

[MathBlade]

Also if it's DkKoba+tictac, then DkKoba already knows where the vig is, so why does tictac go after you so hard due to potentially having bought into your fake softing, MathBlade, and to vote you and to hopefully get you to claim? DkKoba's role, whatever the alignment, is proven. So tictac+DkKoba scum team already knows where the vig is and doesn't need to go looking for it.

My guess is they want the extra kill from the no elim. That applies for NM or Tictac.

As to why the day play today I am not sure. I was under the impression originally vig hunting but other things have pinged me more in regards to Koba/tictac than Koba/NM.

But regardless none of my scumpool are viable elims with Koba and Roden a package unit on you and no one wants them and if I push them the game turns toxic because I disagree with the pocketed townies so I am at a loss other than pointing out what will happen.

[MathBlade]

So I gotta work now but I won’t join a wagon with Koba and I want whoever Koba is on to flip.

Your move Koba.

ok enjoy me carrying you then, i really don't mind.

I hate how smug you are right now.

I imagine you sitting there in your glorious enbie ness going “Ha math is the only one who suspects me and he’s such an easy discredit. All I have to do is keep reminding people I ‘caught’ Dwlee and Math hasn’t ‘caught’ anyone due to being a replace in”

It kills me how smug you’re being right now

[MathBlade]

Social argument for TicTac/Koba => Both wagons stalled meaning both are more than likely town.

This gets ignored with “But Koba can’t be bussing because…it was D2….which has no factual merit of bus.”

Setup spec argument => Cannot have 4 conf towns in a setup

This gets ignored with “But Koba can’t be bussing because Dwlee claimed doctor”

Which again has no relevance

Based on play argument => Demonstrate that it’s literally proscum and what will happen

Like I have explained Koba scum in every possible angle

I legit do not know what else to do here and it is infuriating.

[MathBlade]

So the only thing I can think of is Enchant being on the Shadow wagon then seeing who votes after Enchant.

[MathBlade]

Yet no one votes Shadowgirl proving my point…

[MathBlade]

I'm of a similar mind to agree with Roden in his post about his points as to DkKoba being town, which is that the D2 play felt early if scum (rather than why not do it D3, for instance?), and that I think it's a combination of that scum might be hoping town votes them out because of the paradox of "how can they be alive if they're town" and due to my thoughts in my longer previous posts about what their reads were on certain players and how scum likely wanted them around to push them those people. DkKoba as scum is not something that is entirely out of the realm of possibilities, but in general, I still prefer the resolution of the 1vs1 of me/NM to be done today rather than to be left for ELO, because that route feels safer for town rather than for instance potentially mislimming the town rolecop. And NM scum to me is something that I feel far more certain about than any other possibilities.

I fail to see how the day has any relevance. 2 masons a vig and a rolecop (ungated) vs any scum set up can’t exist
Vs
2 masons a vig vs rolecop makes for a mighty fine setup.

3 masons 3 goon is the balance in 13p, this is 12p.

So three confirmed town and no invest is 13P
So how do you figure 3 confirmed town + invest + death in 12P?

Are you listening to yourself? Oh wait you’re scum.

[MathBlade]

Shadow why are you so convinced NM is scum?

Math why are you so convinced Koba is scum?

These are the main reasons. Let me know if you want any more in depth as I have explained most if not all of these in depth.

1) Initial skims Koba pinged me for tone and meta usage while claiming a guilty on Dwlee.
2) It is my belief that whoever “won” D2 was staged in such a way that the “winner” would be locktown
3) Setup spec. 3 masons (read 3 conf town) and no scum power is known balance for 13P as mentioned by more than just myself. Therefore 3 conf town (2 masons + vig + invest) versus no group scum is unbalanced. If you add any PRs to scum then you end up with Koba turning into a cop if town which is even worse.
4) Vote mechanisms/challenges. It’s no coincidence that when I told Koba to put up or shut up Tic Tac voted Shadow. They don’t want Koba flipped so instead of going for a no elim to take you out then Enchant they have to push for an elim.

I specifically challenged Koba and noted the dilemma to force scum to act.

[MathBlade]

I'm of a similar mind to agree with Roden in his post about his points as to DkKoba being town, which is that the D2 play felt early if scum (rather than why not do it D3, for instance?), and that I think it's a combination of that scum might be hoping town votes them out because of the paradox of "how can they be alive if they're town" and due to my thoughts in my longer previous posts about what their reads were on certain players and how scum likely wanted them around to push them those people. DkKoba as scum is not something that is entirely out of the realm of possibilities, but in general, I still prefer the resolution of the 1vs1 of me/NM to be done today rather than to be left for ELO, because that route feels safer for town rather than for instance potentially mislimming the town rolecop. And NM scum to me is something that I feel far more certain about than any other possibilities.

I fail to see how the day has any relevance. 2 masons a vig and a rolecop (ungated) vs any scum set up can’t exist
Vs
2 masons a vig vs rolecop makes for a mighty fine setup.

3 masons 3 goon is the balance in 13p, this is 12p.

Assume for a moment I am scum, then if Tic Tac is town then TicTac is telling you the truth then that 3 masons is the balance for 13p. Which then go back to my prior point which is valid regardless of if I am scum or not.

The only way my setup spec would be invalid is if both I and tictac are scum together.

[MathBlade]

Now in regards to D2. Assume DkKoba flips scum instead.
Dwlee has an unverifiable doctor claim and having been pushed by Koba, Dwlee then kills one mason and claims “oops guarded the other”.

DkKoba winning that dilemma AND top scumspect dying and being able to get another check off to get Enchant’s modifier means scum wanted HEM dead.

[MathBlade]

Roden I really think Shadow is town. I disagree that the NM read should be so strong because TicTac seems more likely scum than NM.

I think Shadow is incorrect town but it’s possible Shadow is correct it’s DkKoba + NM and that explain the bus to get enough credibility in case NM gets policied. I would compromise on NM or Tictac but much prefer Koba.

[MathBlade]

Now in regards to D2. Assume DkKoba flips scum instead.
Dwlee has an unverifiable doctor claim and having been pushed by Koba, Dwlee then kills one mason and claims “oops guarded the other”.

DkKoba winning that dilemma AND top scumspect dying and being able to get another check off to get Enchant’s modifier means scum wanted HEM dead.

Because Roden also wanted Enchant and a pocketed mason means you don’t have to focus on defense. They will push your miselims for you. At this point Koba clearly didn’t know Enchant was a vig whatever their alignment hence the check. But Koba scum would know Enchant is town and therefore Roden would have wrong reads. HEM wouldn’t.

[MathBlade]

God damn it Roden, can someone concisely summarise this koba mech-clear/guilty please because I've seen both whilst skimming

Koba claimed a guilty on D2 who flipped scum
3 conf town exist without innos so it’s unlikely a town rolecop exists.

[MathBlade]

Without invests* my bad

[MathBlade]

God damn it Roden, can someone concisely summarise this koba mech-clear/guilty please because I've seen both whilst skimming

Koba claimed a guilty on D2 who flipped scum
3 conf town exist without invests so it’s unlikely a town rolecop exists.

@Not Mafia — Here is the short and sweet if you missed it

I have company over.

@Thread I am willing to consolidate on NM but want NM’s opinion on Koba first

[MathBlade]

I'm getting flashbacks to our scumgame together, where we just got trapped in the townsidedness of the set-up, to decide whether this is scum theatre or just bad balance I'd have to like, actually read and analyse and I have to draw the line somewhere

I think it’s scum theatre between Koba and Dwlee but that’s based on knowing them and RC.

[MathBlade]

2) I disagree here. Perceptions easily change the more we know. Somethings that seem good are bad and vice versa which is why I hate d1 scum elims most of the time.

3) Mech spec can be a tool like anything else. It loses games if unallowed to follow its conclusions. I agree rolecop isn’t conf on its own but with three natural confs scum would need an invest or blocker but that would be guiltied by Koba if town so Koba just doesn’t fit.

4) I do. It’s possible with Koba+NM here though.

And regarding your last question I don’t know. I have tried theorizing NM/TicTac or TicTac/Shadow or Shadow/NM but I always come back to Koba scum. If I have to pick one I would pick NM/TicTac because I feel Shadow is town.

[MathBlade]

If you think Tictac could be scum, then why haven't you voted them? Koba also thinks Tictac is scum.

Because Koba to me is lock scum where as Tic/NM are maybes

And the Koba wagon when I voted was protest.

Right now Koba is viable and I don’t want to break a viable wagon this close to deadline

[MathBlade]

Because Koba to me is lock scum where as Tic/NM are maybes

And the Koba wagon when I voted was protest.

Right now Koba is viable and I don’t want to break a viable wagon this close to deadline

But you'll change if there's another potential vote for NM or you would go to no elim? You were the one who originally brought up that no elim benefits scum most because they get a free NK.

@Thread I am willing to consolidate on NM but want NM’s opinion on Koba first

Also idk if you are going to pop up in the last hour of deadline, but your current vote is not helping avoiding no elim:

I'll vote NM if it forces an elimination + helps shed light on the gamestate better. I'd normally suggest we use enchant for an elim at night instead but I would prefer not to be blasted here

VOTE: Mathblade

Yes I would as previously stated change to NM to avoid no elim.

It’s 2 / 2 / 2

Changing my vote to NM right now doesn’t help as no one else seems to want NM.

So Koba seems most likely.

If someone else votes NM I will hammer

[MathBlade]

To be blunt I do not trust Koba to vote NM but they are more than welcome to prove me wrong.

[MathBlade]

Wait then Koba wins either way

VOTE: Not Mafia

We need an elim

[MathBlade]

[2] ShadowGirl: DkKoba, tictac
[2] Not_Mafia: ShadowGirl, Not_Mafia
[2] DkKoba: MathBlade, Enchant

[1] Not voting: Roden

With 7 players alive, 4 votes are needed for an elimination.

D3: deadline: (expired on 2022-04-15 04:25:15)

@Roden @Enchant @TicTac @Koba

We need one more for an elim please

[MathBlade]

Congratulations to town. I made a mistake replacing in at 60 something pages and could not fake any reads.

Gg Greeting and thanks for replacing in.

As a habitual replacer, it will come with practice.

[MathBlade]

Oh god, I'm so glad I stopped tunneling Shadow enough to unvote

Good Vig shot by Enchant, sorry for doubting the scum read on Koba so much

Thanks for modding Norwee and GG

Hey it happens. Koba did a really good job of a pocket.

I am just glad I managed to convince Enchant.

I was dreading the possibility of a me Koba you tomorrow where Koba just fake claims a guilty.

Gg everyone and I look forward to the threads.

[MathBlade]

Oh and no redactions

[MathBlade]

btw I completely guessed Enchant's modifier based on what I know about RC, my rolecop checks were on tictac and Mathblade slot(marci)

I almost said Night 2 Vigilante but then I remembered something about him saying he likes setups that would be entertaining to watch and not entertaining for him to play in - ergo Novice fits better.


Biggest mistake was killing HEM when it looked like he softed an investigative on ShadowGirl - I thought there was a town Gunsmith due to my role existing - and I thought that was the Gunsmith.

Yeah I think killing HEM kinda sealed it. Town won’t have an investigative if there’s masons with 12 alive. It creates an unwinnable situation for scum in elo.

Nice guess on the check though. I would have guessed even night tbh.

Yeah and replacements do swing things.

[MathBlade]

Also mathblade, a rolecop absolutely fits in the setup for town, starting off with 12 people as opposed to 13 is a huge shift in balance in favor of the mafia team with 3 mafia present, and rolecop adds very little value for the town other than being a named townie that can semi-prove their own role.

Agree to disagree.

The limit from 13 to 12 is a huge boon to town. The three confirmed roles means town almost certainly has a confirmed town in elo or a scum elim guaranteed. Scum that can’t control elo are inherently weaker.

[MathBlade]

every single replacement for town ruined a pocket I had previously established/added pressure onto my partner

also the dwlee bus was planned with the idea that Chaos wouldn't replace out, and would be able to post there. Greeting replacing in put focus on that slot right away and it was hard to recover + had to drag the slot along. If we got NM to quickhammer ShadowGirl when it was possible, the scum win was very possible, but unfortunate.

Gamma -> Enchant
marci -> Mathblade

mostly ruined the dynamics I tried to setup on day 1 and day 2

stop replacing out after day 1 >:(

Yeah sorry.

Carrying with NM can be hard.

I love NM as a person but the lack of posting is rough and requires creative solutions.

[MathBlade]

and thanks for modding Norwee!

Kinda glad I got limmed early lol, my reads would’ve been garbage and I think I had some significant partner equity with Dwlee so I probably would’ve been limmed sooner or later

Sorry for voting you out Meuh. I was wrong for the right reasons(?). I was sure of Chaos as scum and I had HEM as locktown, so you the D1 compromise vote for me... considering DkKoba was pushing you so hard if you flipped town I would have pretty sure of them as scum (but the D2 guilty scrambled my thoughts on them).
But I honoured your death with an avi. <3

Nonono dw! Limming me was very reasonable, and you had some of the best reads this game so that doesn’t mean much in the greater scheme of things
Scum!me fit well with the rest of your reads so it makes a whole lot of sense
Love the avi, thank you <3
and welcome back! You played really well for your first game in a long time, I’m impressed

Sorry we didn’t get to play together! You seem nice.

[MathBlade]

FWIW, I would have shot Mathblade and if they flipped town, I would have limmed Koba.

Lolz But we still woulda won so yay

[MathBlade]

I took over Enchant and vigged Koba jk. Thanks for trusting me Enchant.

And yeah it was fun bouncing ideas off.

Sorry I voted and disappeared and didn’t push NM more. I had the epiphany at midnight/1 am or something so I voted and crashed.

[MathBlade]

And lol yeah I am very good at fake crumbing and real crumbing.

I was hoping to take a bullet for Enchant if we elimmed town.

Then scum is forced to CC the vig to win.

[MathBlade]

I was mimicking the same mindset I hold as town.
I do indeed disregard mechanical stuff, if you look into my game history you'll see in games like Large 236 i ignore a friendly neighbor claim in favor of my personal reads - and flip a scum there.

I mean I agree with you doing this. On the surface this is correct, but to me you’re one of the better mech players out there so for you not to get what I was saying was pretty bad.

[MathBlade]

@Enchant: Thank you for not shooting me in the face if you were considering it and I think your choices were really good. Sorry I scumread you, as a lot of it was based on how I felt about Gamma, plus I never ever picked up on you being vig, and you were scumreading me, so out of the PoE you were a viable choice to me.

@HEM: I was gutted when you got shot because I thought we were vibing really well together and I liked playing with you.

@MathBlade:
Basically, I ended up initially townreading you due to giving me the benefit of the doubt, and then vigreading you due to the fact I townread you (also marci saying that she thought HEM was town, so I knew the vig shot was not HEM). So I was wildly wrong about the vig and hence why I kept scumreading Enchant because I didn't pick up on that at all. I will say that it's amazing that DkKoba guessed Novice trait. I don't have enough setup meta knowledge due to not having played in nearly ten years, so I didn't feel confident on scumreading based on that.

I can see that. That’s why I tried breaking it down in a way to understand.

Everyone should have the mathematical possibility of a fair shot in elo (meaning no conf towns)
Because Koba could confirm themselves by checking the vig or mason if town that means 4 conf towns.

That means scum need fire power or multiple kills to balance which isn’t possible.
So Koba = scum.