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[VP Baltar]

i get why me saying "a50 is most likely scum, if he's town then it's in vp/skitter" looks unfortunate if you're town and you have info on a50 being town. like, i get it. but look at everything else that points at me being town - i can go through each and every one of my scumgames on site to show why this isn't how i play around my partners. iv can vouch for the sheer level of planning i do as scum, especially when we're planning theatre. lapla fell apart, that doesn't happen if i'm there.

Iv, I'd like to hear your assessment on whether you think it is possible Datisi bussed lap.

[VP Baltar]

ari and andres have admittedly weak votes on lapla. but those weak votes make no sense as bussing votes. what do scum!andres or scum!ari gain by blindly sheeping me/rtp onto the wagon, and not even trying to divert any attention elsehwere?

they're not getting towncred for the vote,

they're not opening the door for any other yeet, they're not setting up shit, they're just gamethrowing.

Isn't this literally what you're doing right now?

I agree they are non-controlling of the wagon, but ari was always going to sheep you D1 as meta. If that sheep happens to go onto a weak buddy, that seems like something that is going to be considered town-indicative generally. I have a hard time imagining a world where Ari in particular comes out double barreled on D1 and people aren't asking questions about her meta, at least from what I saw last game with her. I find it somewhat weird you have no paranoia or suspicion of the Lap wagon having bus potential when he just straight spaghettied himself and then left the thread at the mildest pressure.

That reads a lot to me like you wanting to keep townies happy.

[VP Baltar]

I don't think VPB claimed PR if that's what you think he did

No, but he softed the shit out of it.

i really REALLY don't think baltar of either alignment goes from "kill a50" to "a50 is conftown" without some sort of mech info, and i don't think this is exactly rocket surgery for scum to figure out either, which is why i'm fine talking about it with this level of openness

Sure, let's be absolutely clear: i received information last night. A50 is town. I won't be discussing the way that information came to me because scum trying to actually figure it out is an exercise in futility. I chose to release said info to stop a wasted discussion about a50 and to completely flip the script on any narratives scum wanted to open today with.

The fact multiple people came out today with "let's sheep Koba, vote:vp!" shows scum could have easily come into today pushing a couple easy misyeets had I not turned that plan on its head.

[VP Baltar]

god this is stupid

if my scum plan is to flip a50, then once he flips green, turn that into a scumcase for vp and skitt, why the fuck do i say that plan outloud day 2 instead of pretending to reread the game "in light of green!a50" day 3 and come to that conclusion then

this just opens the door for me being accused of chaining, which is something i'm well aware as scum and wouldn't do it

even if i didn't get accused of it today, someone would've made the callback tomorrow once i started pushing vp and/or skitt

and i love how all of this completely ignores the preflip i did on a50 flipping red, yep sure definitely single minded here totally just put my scumplan out there and now i'm going shocked pikachu face for being pushed for things i know towns find scummy and that would actually be LESS EFFORT for scum me to NOT POST

BRILLIANT

Just going to say that "I would never do...." is not a convincing argument to me.

You can post it if you want, but that line of thought is mostly a waste for me. I don't think it's unreasonable for scum to speculate they could get a50/me flipped in either order with few questions from a town that is highly suggestable.

[VP Baltar]

WHO am i trying to keep happy here??

Ari and andres obv if they are town are part of the coalition I'd be trying to form if I was in your shoes. It is potentially a pocketing play to say "welp, nothing to see here, let's yeet this potential busser a50, and if that is wrong, the wagon of a weak ass scum is pure and we should turn to VP".

That's a pretty obvious strategy in a scum!datisi world.

[VP Baltar]

Sure, let's be absolutely clear: i received information last night. A50 is town.

Lol I was not being subtle at all and planned to be explicit today. Just didn't want to go full out while I was attempting to have a social life last night.

[VP Baltar]

the dude that is barely even playing, and someone whose only purpose in the game seems to be sheeping me ALREADY, both people that have next to none influence on the thread as a whole

You and I both know this is not true, especially in the long term. Both ari and andres are good players who DO influence the game, especially in later days.

@Math - I do see you think this fight is TvT, and you may be right, but I do think it is important to have. Giving Datisi a free pass is danger zone. His point of view needs to be thoroughly stress tested.

[VP Baltar]

I feel like there was someone on the scumteam who was highly in tune with the game and was basically telling Lap "you're dead, stop posting".

And this person was????

[VP Baltar]

And this person was????

I would have to do a lot of unpleasant reading to have a chance of answering this, but looking for people who jumped on the Lap wagon pretty early is probably a good start.

I'm afraid reading is going to be required at this point unfortunately

[VP Baltar]

s_s, have you done a single ai thing this game?

^real talk

[VP Baltar]

baltar, how do you feel about my skitter vote?

It's on the table for me. I want to reread skitt today and see how I feel about it independently

[VP Baltar]

I think VPB's posting today is bad

What is bad in your view?

[VP Baltar]

Did you mean to include the double negative so you don't think a50 wasn't the scum on the lap wagon, meaning a50 is a scum and you're looking at Datisi as a potential third?

That is not a double negative because those are independent clauses.

The big picture you are stating is correct though. A50 isn't scum, and I'm looking at datisi as a potential scumbag on the Lap wagon.

Normals include how many ways to obtain false reports?

Do you think I have no clue how to play this game?

[VP Baltar]

i am in the mood to argue with someone about nonsense that is the game of mafia, but i don't think i currently have anything to argue *about*

Your estimated best guess solve rn now is skitter and SS, right?

[VP Baltar]

@1615 Your Datisi push at the beginning of the day was really tinfoily and reachy. The "chain elim" argument is something I've seen from town before when they're paranoid about a slot and it's usually a bad argument since it's much more likely that the slot in question is just looking through potential associatives.

So let me ask if you agree with datisi it is unlikely the other two scum were on a Lap bus. You think both scum were off wagon?

[VP Baltar]

If it's scum!skitter + 1 busser maybe they weren't anticipating VP would claim and clear a50 in the process so they thought it would be safe to take out RTP because VP and a50 would still be on the PoE.

On what planet would anyone anticipate the play I made? That was the whole point of me making that play, it is very unpredictable.

[VP Baltar]

I think the most likely is one and one. Both would be a bit heavy handed and from what I have read didn’t seem like that.

This is my guess as well.

I don't have that much of a strong instinct for which of the folks on was it. I went into the night hoping it was A50 and this was easy, but that's just not the case.

I find it fairly unlikely neither remaining scum would want to be on the lap wagon when he was so underwater. That would seem like a POE risk to me if I was scum.

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, I'd agree that the other scum were likely off wagon.

Can you walk me through your reason for believing this?

[VP Baltar]

Ari, what are your thoughts on the on and off wagon split?

[VP Baltar]

Ari, what are your thoughts on the on and off wagon split?

I think probably 2 off-wagon.

What makes you feel this way?

[VP Baltar]

The case was good and then this interaction was a lot and looks TvT to me. UNVOTE: Ari

Unless someone comes in and says they've personally seen Ari play like this as scum I think Ari is town.

I don't think ari acting like this is AI fwiw.

[VP Baltar]

Datisi's push before Lap in 194 and 211 do not read as distancing to me and the same goes for his pushes later in the day

Be more specific. What about datisi's push indicates he is town?

As far as the "X would never kill RTP" argument, I find that completely silly. There are many reasons to kill RTP, including trying to smear me. It's very first order thinking to say scum only kill people who are actively pushing them. Is that a consideration? Sure! Is it the only reason to make a NK? Absolutely not.

The only other person besides me in RTP's solve, if you believe that logic, is IV. And even if you believe he is scum, who is the other scum? Clearly one of the scum did not have this direct motivation to kill RTP, so my point is proven true.

[VP Baltar]

You lost the other game because you are very rigid in how you expect a wagon to look.

You ignored the reads of the other town players in the game who were right about wagon composition and insisted you were right.

You make excuses about it being a unicorn wagon and highly atypical to excuse your close-mindedness.

Instead of learning from your mistake you are doubling down on the wagon must look a certain way therefore I am going to push according to it.

This passing contest is very boring. Can we move on?

[VP Baltar]

Pissing contest

[VP Baltar]

Scum would not need to kill RTP to push through a lim on you, especially since RTP seemed completely set on You/Skitter. That was my point, that if Skitter was town then scum would have no reason to kill RTP, since RTP would most likely drive through Skitter's mislim themselves.

I think regardless of anything, Skitter needs to get flipped today.

Man, listen to me: first, RTP is not someone I'd be afraid to go against if I was scum. They are a good player, but it is not that difficult to spin them up. Look how tilted they were getting yesterday at me asking very basic questions. I was not even trying to provoke them, which i would do as scum. Second, when I'm town, I'm never going to eat a misyeet. I will always fight tooth and claw because that's my win condition. I don't think this is a secret about me. Scum leaving RTP alive to fight me is a major gamble as scum because there is simply a nonzero chance that fight ends in people realizing I'm playing in my town meta. That's compared to RTP is dead and a gang of people start the day today saying "lol brain off, we do what RTP would have wanted! Vote: vp". Hell, some people continued to poke around it even after I softed I had clearing info on Math.

Third, as I stated before, there are all kinds of players in this game with histories with koba, and any number of reasons to want them out. They play a wildcard game, and that is never good if you are scum. Period.

Fourth, if the scum IS Datisi or Ari, who do you NK other than RTP? The masons are probably something you avoid because they are protection/watcher bait. You dont touch the people who are barely playing, and me/A50 were yeet bait to start the day. RTP is a logical kill spot to get out a decent player who could sideline your narrative and get super stubborn at any point.

[VP Baltar]

sure

Thank you, honestly. Not bagging on either of you. I just don't like games to get Toxic. I appreciate you letting it go.

[VP Baltar]

Also rtp's solve was lap/iv/vp ... i actually dont think scum-vp kills rtp if they're that right there tbh ...

Why focus on me instead of iv?

[VP Baltar]

This is kinda annoying because:
- not sure i believe this
- i want to vote a50/math

Believe it. Unless you believe the scum team is exactly me an A50, which....

[VP Baltar]

Skitter, do you think there was scum bussing on the Lap wagon?

[VP Baltar]

Tbf i was around enuf to see that he was going down and i would have proclaimed a firm scumread on him and gotten on that wagon as soon as it looked semi-inevitable

Why is this true for you and not generally anyone in this game?

That should give you a good idea if scum was most likely on the wagon, yeah?

[VP Baltar]

If that's at me, i also dont think andres is scum

Then who is the scum on the Lap wagon?

78% odds there is.

I answered this earlier, i said i thought it was your slot

Right, but it's not...

[VP Baltar]

my fucking god, this game gave me so much stress

the last day gave me so much STRESS

Two for two victories for you!

Gg all