Mini Normal 2252 | W;ildlife amd strange critters | Over!!

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: UglyDuck

I know you.

[Andresvmb]

Also, I am of the belief that people should just assume I’m Town at this point.

[Andresvmb]

I’m back tonight btw.

[Andresvmb]

Okay I really did expect to be back yesterday but I have some time now so I’ll be reading.

[Andresvmb]

Also the worst it’s good to see you’re in the game. It’s been a while.

[Andresvmb]

Have we actually found the Scum yet?

I am in the game! I just have not gotten around to posting much. It’s been hectic.

[Andresvmb]

I am Town though. So just relax and let me read.

[Andresvmb]

5 people think it's me. A different 5 think it's UD

Well, you’re good Scum so if you’re getting wagoned D1, it’s probably incorrect.

[Andresvmb]

I ISO’ed DW. I don’t think they’ve actively solved too intensely. At the same time, they sound like Town to me. Their argument with Natalya at the very least is not SvS. And if Natalya truly is making a bad case against them, then that needs to be scrutinized some more.

[Andresvmb]

5 people think it's me. A different 5 think it's UD

Well, you’re good Scum so if you’re getting wagoned D1, it’s probably incorrect.

Andres can I get a timeframe for when you're going to find scum

If I identify one Scum today do I get a cookie?

[Andresvmb]

I’ll have a Scum in the next 5 hours.

[Andresvmb]

This is turning out to be harder than I expected.

@DW, what do you make of theworst in this game? And if you’ve already commented there, just point me to the post.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Azaariah

[Andresvmb]

I think my entire POE right now is T3/andres/Scorp/Gamma. I suddenly feel a lot better about a lot of people being towny after my first reads list.

surely my overconfidence will not come back to haunt me

Your POE is bad. But I can’t really object to being included, since I haven’t had the time to play all that much.

[Andresvmb]

I’ll have a Scum in the next 5 hours.

I guess we can all sheep Andres when he's done catching a scum for us

I’m trying! My problem is that I read too slow. I am trying to catch all of the small things and form a full image in my head and write notes and it just takes too long.

[Andresvmb]

T3 wagon remains all town go us

This is the sort of stuff that pings me to be honest. T3 could very well be Scum (though frankly, how often do you see Scum question a Doctor claim?), but this just feels odd to me.

[Andresvmb]

Anyway, until I fully catch up, I’ll withhold a full solve. Not that it would be any good anyway.

[Andresvmb]

Also, my vote is based on the early part of the game, and what I think is just Scummy posting by Azaariah (particularly 211). But again, until I read everything, just take it with a grain of salt.

[Andresvmb]

I’m back in a bit. I’m finally on vacation so I can read.

[Andresvmb]

Can you all not execute someone in like 2 seconds? I’ll try and actually effort today. I was waiting on the flips so I wouldn’t have to readjust my view of the game.

[Andresvmb]

I’m back tonight btw.

Okay I really did expect to be back yesterday but I have some time now so I’ll be reading.

Have we actually found the Scum yet?

I am in the game! I just have not gotten around to posting much. It’s been hectic.

I am Town though. So just relax and let me read.

I’ll have a Scum in the next 5 hours.

I’ll have a Scum in the next 5 hours.

I guess we can all sheep Andres when he's done catching a scum for us

I’m trying! My problem is that I read too slow. I am trying to catch all of the small things and form a full image in my head and write notes and it just takes too long.

Anyway, until I fully catch up, I’ll withhold a full solve. Not that it would be any good anyway.

I’m back in a bit. I’m finally on vacation so I can read.

Can you all not execute someone in like 2 seconds? I’ll try and actually effort today. I was waiting on the flips so I wouldn’t have to readjust my view of the game.

Bruh. Saying that you'll catch up and read is literally half of your entire ISO.

Yeah it happens. Deal with it. As much as I like to play Mafia, sometimes life gets in the way.

[Andresvmb]

Also, you’ve been doing a bang up job of executing Town without me so it’s not like you desperately needed my contributions.

[Andresvmb]

Anyway, I’m going to be on a plane most of today. I’ll see you all on the other side.

[Andresvmb]

You've had two entire weeks to form basic reads and your excuse is that life gets in the way? Sure.

I did read most of the start. And I was trying to help. It’s not my fault I lost interest in trying super hard after you all executed someone yesterday extremely quickly. I had nothing to do with that debacle.

[Andresvmb]

@DW can you ISO fua and tell me if you think they’re Scum?

[Andresvmb]

Let's find out if he's scum then.

VOTE: scorpious

This is basically a Scum claim.

[Andresvmb]

Like, can you Unvote so people can process what’s happened? What are you doing?

[Andresvmb]

I’m VT.

Has anybody defended Scorpious?

[Andresvmb]

If I had to take a guess, I would say this game is lost. Scorpious is Town, and is probably going to get executed because it’s the easy thing to do. Retti and fua are probably aligned as Scum, and I doubt Galron is Scum (probably just doesn’t care).

[Andresvmb]

Look I tried going back and re-read this game and then I realized my motivation for this is totally shot since I am too far behind and not really interested. The other thing is I actually got to spend time with family over the holidays I hadn’t seen in 2 years because of the pandemic and so I haven’t really been all that invested in playing this game.

[Andresvmb]

Why is Scorpius town

Because no one cares to defend them. Scum is what, one mis-execution away from winning and no one even has tried to defend Scorpious much? Does that seem likely to you?

[Andresvmb]

Anyone who called Scorpious Town in the early part of the game if I recall correctly is dead.

[Andresvmb]

Could be bus

You think they’re getting bussed here? Why? The game is so close to lost and the Town in such disarray, I find that totally unlikely. And we even proceeded to shoot ourselves further in the foot by running through D2 and totally ruining any chance of figuring out what the hell was happening.

[Andresvmb]

And now that you're defending him and I find you likely to have finally rolled red here...

Assume for a minute that Scorpious is Scum, I’m Scum too, and both fua and Galron are Town. What do you think I am most likely to do?

[Andresvmb]

I haven’t really played the game right, no one TRs me, I don’t have any influence, and I haven’t even finished reading every post. Do you think I would try and stick my neck out for a Partner on the brink, or do you think I’m more likely to try and continue the pattern so far of not saying much, laying low, and perhaps hope that a Town member screws up and votes amongst those that have votes out and are Town? I guess you won’t know for sure until after the game is over, but my guess is that I would have hard bussed and try and get some credibility by making some sort of credible argument against Scorpious.

[Andresvmb]

Okay so Fua is scum, why can't Galron be partnered

Galron put a vote down with really flimsy logic and clearly doesn’t care. I think the majority of the Town left in this game don’t care. Galron fits that profile.

Hey, it’s a hunch.

[Andresvmb]

I would be trying to appear as Towny as possible and making arguments about people’s play and all that if I was Scum since the game really is almost over. Doesn’t fua not strike you like that? They also made a bit of a bad faith argument against me and left a sour taste in my mouth.

[Andresvmb]

There’s what 2 players in Natalya and Enchant that have publicly said that they would sheep you right? And I recall correctly, I put forth an argument that you were Town DW when you were facing some pressure. I’m such bad Scum that my only contribution to my Team is to diffuse an argument against a now confirmed Town? Well that’s some brilliant play.

[Andresvmb]

Anyway, I’m probably wrong since I haven’t paid all that much attention but I figured I would at least put forth a thought that crossed my mind as I read what’s happened today.

fua just seems too certain to me given how poorly the executions have gone.

[Andresvmb]

I'm town. Scorpious is blatant scum who's never managed to gain any real traction because everybody is giving him a free pass for his AtE floundering and OMGUS instead of him actually contributing new ideas to the field. Other two mafia are most likely within (Enchant/Andres/Galron).

Like this screams Scum on the verge of a victory.

[Andresvmb]

Emotion gets dismissed a lot as not alignment indicative, but honestly, that’s not true. T3 wrote that they thought Scorpious early floundering was NAI. I really strongly disagree. I think Scorpious reaction to being wagoned early in the game screams of Town. But what do I know.

[Andresvmb]

Retti might actually be efforting too much for Scum but in that case, I would argue that their read of Scorpious is too based on tone. There’s not enough strategic thinking here. Scorpious could be Scum I suppose but where is the heated argument? Why are two players saying they will sheep you DW and everyone else alive is basically shading the slot? Are you telling me both Enchant and Natalya are Scum with Scorpious and they’re trying to avoid scrutiny? I guess that’s possible?

[Andresvmb]

Just some questions I have. Anyway, I will try and keep reading after lunch and maybe some brilliant idea pops into my head. Or maybe not and I’m stuck with superficial thoughts and some musings.

[Andresvmb]

Just some questions I have. Anyway, I will try and keep reading after lunch and maybe some brilliant idea pops into my head. Or maybe not and I’m stuck with superficial thoughts and some musings.

[Andresvmb]

Forget that for a moment, fua can you tell me what your actual reads are right now? Just in a list, no reasoning.

Town:
Retti
Andante
Worst
Azaariah

Null:
Oman
Dwlee
Natalya

Scum:
Uglyduck
T3
Scorpious

Not playing:
Egix
Andres

Some of these are conditional, though. Bottom three isn’t a scumteam so much as ‘the three most likely to be scum’. Egix and Andres are unrankable because they aren’t actually in this game.

If this is the guy we’re listening to, then we’re surely going to lose. 2 of the Null have flipped Town or are Confirmed Town, and 2 of the Scum have flipped Town. Yet where is the reevaluation? Why such confidence that Scorpious is Scum? Fascinating isn’t it?

[Andresvmb]

Actually, on second thought, I feel like Azaariah’s flip will yield more information than T3’s even if I think they’re a little less likely to be scum.

VOTE: Azaariah

I feel like if they flip red, that makes Scorpious, Andres, and Gamma look a lot better than they do now. Worst case scenario this flip gives us a lot of insight into alignments through association and we get rid of a meat shield for scum to hide behind.

That’s E-1.

It’s also somewhat hilarious that the player they listed towards the top of the Town list is a player they voted for “information”.

Anyway, I wouldn’t trust fua for shit is I guess what I’m saying.

[Andresvmb]

Collectively btw, this is the worst Town game I’ve ever seen hahaha we’ve only built end of day wagons on Town. So wagon analysis is totally worthless since every important vote has been on Town.

[Andresvmb]

Btw DW how often do you see Scum get voted up by two Town, and they vote outside of the wagon that has formed on them? Clearly what you do there is try and argue forcefully that one of the people voting you is Scum, and then if you get executed they get NK’ed anyway since they’ve basically cleared themselves. Why is Scorpious voting for Retti of all people?

[Andresvmb]

It is absurdly suboptimal as Scum to vote outside of the wagon built on you in MElo. Only a Townie convinced of their own righteousness would do such a thing. That’s what I’m saying.

[Andresvmb]

And my argument is that both the game state and Scorpious’ early tone are making me think that they’re Town. Not to mention that I don’t trust fua for shit, and they’re on the wagon too.

[Andresvmb]

I haven’t really played the game right, no one TRs me, I don’t have any influence, and I haven’t even finished reading every post. Do you think I would try and stick my neck out for a Partner on the brink, or do you think I’m more likely to try and continue the pattern so far of not saying much, laying low, and perhaps hope that a Town member screws up and votes amongst those that have votes out and are Town? I guess you won’t know for sure until after the game is over, but my guess is that I would have hard bussed and try and get some credibility by making some sort of credible argument against Scorpious.

I mean the question is: do you actually think bussing scorpious now would actually give you any credit in a situation where you're scum with him, when other people have been beating the drum for him being scum for a much longer time, and are generally more townread than you?

Probably better than hard defending them and when they inevitably flip (which I’m almost sure they will here anyway) I go down immediately after.

[Andresvmb]

DW has hinted at them being Scum (and placed them top of the list for massclaim), you’re heavily shading the slot, and they have two votes already. As much as I like to think I’m convincing, I’m almost certain Scorpious is going to see the axe here.

[Andresvmb]

Yeah I mean not willing to commit to any Scum Reads when at the brink and people are asking for your contributions seems relatively silly, and not something Scum tend to do btw. This is the sort of thing people argue that I never understand. Hedging to leave your options open makes sense in the early part of the game - you don’t know how the game is going to shape up as Scum, the Town are trying to figure out what is what, and you’re better off keeping yourself open. Late in the game? Under severe stress? You’re much better off trying to bury one player and going down in flames if it doesn’t work. It’s far more likely to not result in your immediate death. And on top of that, Scorpious is totally failing to even point to one of two players currently on them? Nah, I’m not buying it. Seems totally idiotic. Even if they were bad Scum, the Team would be coaching them hard to argue forcefully against a player. Maybe even fua. Yet with 3 days to go, nothing. They’re defeated, and Scum in this position with so little information favoring Town is not likely to be acting defeated.

Anyway, this is my perception of the situation. I just want people to at least consider what could be happening here. I still very much expect Scorpious to get executed and we’ll see if the game doesn’t end right then and there.

[Andresvmb]

Can you go into why you think fua is scummy beyond "posts sound bad"?

They’re argument against me in the early part of today was a total discredit based on the fact that I posted several times that I would catch up and have not totally done it. But where are the highlights about me questioning the wagon on T3 (saying that I thought it was unlikely that Scum was questioning the Doctor claim), or defending DW? Nowhere right? That’s what’s called cherry-picking, and it was clearly done to sideline me when they can taste victory. Yeah I argued against Azaariah, which is what Andante did immediately after me with a long-ass post and a vote and they were obviously Town too. So we have all screwed up. But there was no balance there. It’s not like I haven’t posted at all. But they were happy to discredit me and not really try and consider my alignment. Interesting right?

[Andresvmb]

It’s that lack of balance and the total certainty that Scorpious is Scum that has me heavily leaning towards fua being Scum.

[Andresvmb]

In any case, I am just throwing shit at the wall and seeing if my argument makes any sense. I fully expect to lose and I really don’t think I have really helped make this any sort of a fight. Even if for some reason we do not execute Scorpious and we actually vote for fua and they flip Scum, that still leaves a tremendous amount of work. I just don’t see how we get out of this situation. But again, I’m very interested in at least seeing some discussion. If I’m overruled so be it.

[Andresvmb]

Btw Retti, everybody’s voting is suspect. We haven’t executed Scum, and we haven’t as far as I can tell as much as built a counter wagon on them. The largest three wagons D1 were all Town. So that’s a bad argument if I’ve ever seen one.

[Andresvmb]

T3(4) ~ Retti(101), the worst(81), fua(80), Dwlee99(162)
Dwlee99(4) ~ Oman(39), Natalya(88), Azaariah(38), T3(47)
Azaariah(4) ~ UglyDuck(31), Gamma Emerald(23), Andresvmb(18), Andante(142)
UglyDuck(1) ~ Scorpious(89)

How wonderful is this? Who could you possibly argue looks good from the votes exactly? T3, Azaariah and UglyDuck are all Town and DW is Confirmed Town. The argument that Scorpious’ voting history is suspect reeks of bad faith to me.

[Andresvmb]

fua’s vote on Azaariah was horribly opportunistic and had crappy reasoning. I fail to see how you can be so certain that between the two, Scorpious is surely the person that needs to get executed here.

[Andresvmb]

T3(4) ~ Retti(101), the worst(81), fua(80), Dwlee99(162)
Dwlee99(4) ~ Oman(39), Natalya(88), Azaariah(38), T3(47)
Azaariah(4) ~ UglyDuck(31), Gamma Emerald(23), Andresvmb(18), Andante(142)
UglyDuck(1) ~ Scorpious(89)

How wonderful is this? Who could you possibly argue looks good from the votes exactly? T3, Azaariah and UglyDuck are all Town and DW is Confirmed Town. The argument that Scorpious’ voting history is suspect reeks of bad faith to me.

I'm rather annoyed you're taking it this way but the point is not about right and wrong it's about whether he was making the votes because he actually believed in them or because they were convenient wagons. I don't think if you're arguing in good faith here that it should be hard to understand why I am saying that.

Ah now I’m possibly not arguing in good faith?

Whatever just vote Scorpious and let’s get this over and done with. It’s what you clearly want to do so I don’t know why you’re wasting so much of my time.

[Andresvmb]

Frustratingly, this is making me think you could be town because it's reminding me of how frantic I got the last time I was in ELO, it's just that you keep jumping to conclusions based on the stuff I say that is not at all what I'm intending and it's very annoying

I don’t think I’m jumping to conclusions based on much of what you’ve said. I think you’re wrong. I think if we execute Scorpious, we lose. So I’m arguing what you’re saying because I don’t think your points are convincing. But maybe I need to look closer and see if Scorpious’ voting history is as bad as you say. I just don’t understand the game state. If Scorpious is Scum, where is the rallying around them? Why the silly vote outside their own wagon? Scum in that position aren’t going to be trying to clear multiple players. It doesn’t make sense. Both fua and you Retti would be near certain Town if they flip Scum. With DW confirmed, it narrows their Partners dramatically. It’s not sensible. Not when they’re so close to winning.

[Andresvmb]

(I also think saying I'd be town if Scorpious is mafia is kind of superficial but I'm not going to scumcase myself, just saying that's weak process)

I am taking a shortcut only because I haven’t read super carefully and I find it unlikely that a Scum there votes for a Partner but you’re right it’s not super solid. They could be distancing when about to be executed and that’s possibly not a terrible idea. I don’t think that’s what’s happening but I don’t find it outlandish.

[Andresvmb]

Anyone who called Scorpious Town in the early part of the game if I recall correctly is dead.

...You mean the main priority scum had when killing the doctor and the cop was to frame Scorpious, with the person the vig shot being the last NK? That's totally why they killed UD and Oman and not for any other reason whatsoever. I can't think of a single reason for why scum would want to kill a doctor and a cop.

Why is Scorpius town

Because no one cares to defend them. Scum is what, one mis-execution away from winning and no one even has tried to defend Scorpious much? Does that seem likely to you?

Nobody has considered that they're scum besides me (And potentially Galron, but I don't know what his thought process is) either. If I were scum one mis-lim away from winning wouldn't I try to go for an easier target besides the person that people are so staunchly against eliminating for some reason? Not to mention that I've literally been trying to vote for Scorpious for the entire game and any wagon on him has conveniently dissolved anyways.

You've seen me be confident in my scumreads before. I don't know why being confident in a scumread for the past three phases is scum-indicative and it feels like you're completely ignoring the fact that I've wanted him limmed for weeks now.

Nobody? Are you sure about that? You might want to read a bit more carefully what people are saying today before posting clear nonsense. Potentially Galron? They put the second vote down on a wagon that if you and them are Town and wrong, it’s game over. But they have maybe considered it?

Scorpious is a reasonably easy target I think. There’s a reason they’re on the brink. Sure, maybe I’m an easier target here. Though to be honest, sometimes you do whatever you think will actually gather votes and doesn’t seem all that inconsistent with your prior thought process.

Here’s where it gets interesting, and part of what I’m arguing. You say in a later post that your reads were conditional on alignment, and you keep hammering at the fact that the reads list I quoted was “in the middle of D1” (somewhat convenient phrasing but sure). It’s now been shown that you’ve been horribly wrong on most of that list, which should give you pause. Yet you’re insisting on executing a player that you have wanted executed throughout, as you say. Why aren’t you wrong there?

[Andresvmb]

Also, did Oman ever claim before being NK’ed? Your sarcastic comment I think is actually factually incorrect. The reason Oman was shot seems to have been to frame DW. Isn’t that what Oman kept arguing? Natalya is probably Scum for that alone. But if they did claim I might have missed it. Someone can point that out for me if possible. If they crumbed and that got caught then surely that could be it too.

UglyDuck was NK’ed for their claim, sure. But my point was also a bit different. The confirmed Town voices that maybe felt Scorpious was Town have been eliminated. The only ones left are not particularly sympathetic towards Scorpious. Why are the voices left more trustworthy than the confirmed Town voices no longer in the game?

[Andresvmb]

^for fua

[Andresvmb]

I haven’t really played the game right, no one TRs me, I don’t have any influence, and I haven’t even finished reading every post. Do you think I would try and stick my neck out for a Partner on the brink, or do you think I’m more likely to try and continue the pattern so far of not saying much, laying low, and perhaps hope that a Town member screws up and votes amongst those that have votes out and are Town? I guess you won’t know for sure until after the game is over, but my guess is that I would have hard bussed and try and get some credibility by making some sort of credible argument against Scorpious.

Flawed argument. One mislim means scum wins as you said multiple times, and mislimming me means a scum win. Scorpious being eliminated and flipping scum would confirm the final two mafia anyway, so there's reason to protect and stick your neck out for him when you know he flips scum and that that would solve the rest of the game.

Are you trying to argue I’m Scum aligned with Scorpious now? If you are, please state it clearly. Because not only are you wrong, you clearly are doing it in an attempt at getting your preferred execution through. Which means I may not be all that wrong about what I’m arguing.

[Andresvmb]

Btw DW how often do you see Scum get voted up by two Town, and they vote outside of the wagon that has formed on them? Clearly what you do there is try and argue forcefully that one of the people voting you is Scum, and then if you get executed they get NK’ed anyway since they’ve basically cleared themselves. Why is Scorpious voting for Retti of all people?

Scorpious is trying to avoid being sussed by NOT doing what you've said and instead completely ignoring the arguments made against him in order to discredit them.

What the hell are you even saying here? Scorpious voted outside of the two people {Galron, you} that voted for them. As Scum, that’s very obviously suboptimal. How they voted, and how they’re reacting to pressure (by ignoring the arguments against them as you say), are entirely different things. I would also argue that Scum are FAR more likely to put a defense in this situation instead of “ignore arguments against them”. With victory so palpably close, I find it bizarre that you think Scum would just freeze and give up here.

[Andresvmb]

Your argument contradicts itself and makes zero sense. You didn’t even read the note that the reads were conditional based on alignment in the very post you quoted.

This absolutism only comes from Scum. Zero sense? So nothing I said is remotely possible? You haven’t been horribly wrong throughout, and are pushing the person at the bottom of your list D1 even though that list proved to be garbage? Your vote for Azaariah didn’t come after listing them as Town with little progression to get “information”? You really do think Scum are likely to vote outside of their own wagon and not for the Town they would surely NK if they lost the 1v1 in this scenario, only to then disappear and makes themselves even more likely to get executed? That last one is possible I suppose, but I find it bizarre that you wouldn’t even contemplate what I’m arguing. And outside of me, no one is defending Scorpious. You can clearly see that. And unless you can convince a few others that I’m actually Scum here, I think you’re going to have to contend with the fact that not everything I’m saying is totally irrational.

[Andresvmb]

Do you think I would try and stick my neck out for a Partner on the brink, or do you think I’m more likely to try and continue the pattern so far of not saying much, laying low, and perhaps hope that a Town member screws up and votes amongst those that have votes out and are Town?

Flawed argument. One mislim means scum wins as you said multiple times, and mislimming me means a scum win. Scorpious being eliminated and flipping scum would confirm the final two mafia anyway, so there's reason to protect and stick your neck out for him when you know he flips scum and that that would solve the rest of the game.

Are you trying to argue I’m Scum aligned with Scorpious now? If you are, please state it clearly. Because not only are you wrong, you clearly are doing it in an attempt at getting your preferred execution through. Which means I may not be all that wrong about what I’m arguing.

Unless I missed something your point was that you were positing a hypothetical where you and Scorpious are partnered, and stated that the optimal move would be to lay low and continue not commenting rather than stepping up to defend him like you are now. That's a flawed argument because you'd know if he gets limmed, then it would solve the rest of the game and town would win.

How is it flawed? Is Scorpious not the most likely person to get executed here? Do you disagree? Why would I not just hard bus them and avoid some of the scrutiny that is sure to follow?

[Andresvmb]

Btw DW how often do you see Scum get voted up by two Town, and they vote outside of the wagon that has formed on them? Clearly what you do there is try and argue forcefully that one of the people voting you is Scum, and then if you get executed they get NK’ed anyway since they’ve basically cleared themselves. Why is Scorpious voting for Retti of all people?

Scorpious is trying to avoid being sussed by NOT doing what you've said and instead completely ignoring the arguments made against him in order to discredit them.

What the hell are you even saying here? Scorpious voted outside of the two people {Galron, you} that voted for them. As Scum, that’s very obviously suboptimal. How they voted, and how they’re reacting to pressure (by ignoring the arguments against them as you say), are entirely different things. I would also argue that Scum are FAR more likely to put a defense in this situation instead of “ignore arguments against them”. With victory so palpably close, I find it bizarre that you think Scum would just freeze and give up here.

Scorpious has not exactly been playing optimally for the duration of the game regardless of his alignment (see: wanting to be hammered on D1), so it's strange that he would turn on a dime like that as well.

Scorpious’ partners would be screaming at them to make sure to vote for someone on the wagon and try and build a reasonably sounding case against them so that they can perhaps get a 1v1 that the other person loses. SURELY you think that Galron then (if not you) is an easy target for this. So why the vote for Retti? Do you not think that’s just plain silly?

[Andresvmb]

Ah now I’ve been lurking so everything I’m saying should just be ignored because it’s not convenient. And I didn’t form “any reads at all”. So I didn’t actually say anything about T3 or DW or Azaariah or Retti and I haven’t said anything about you? So I’m not trying to solve? And you’re “reevaluating” but I’m chainsaw defending Scum now?

@DW please tell the thread since you’re confirmed Town whether I’ve ever “lurked” as Town and whether I sound like Town or not. At the end of the day if you don’t think I’m Town here we’re probably doomed anyway.

[Andresvmb]

Now I’m not reading for context at all.

The problem you have when you argue is that you absolutely dismiss the other person’s POV even when others are clearly hinting that I’m not totally delusional. It makes you come across as Scummy as all shit.

I haven’t said I have read every post. I have already admitted that. My questioning began because you seem overly certain this wins the game, when you have no reason whatsoever to be confident in shit since your reads have been absolute garbage. And since I know I’m Town, the gamestate doesn’t make sense for Scorpious being Scum unless the Team is totally weak and Scorpious has accepted their execution. Which sure, maybe that’s what’s happening. But I at least wanted robust debate about it. Instead of trying to see whether what I was saying made any sense, you’ve continued to try and discredit my perspective with absolutisms. It really heavily hints at Scum I’m sorry to say.

[Andresvmb]

And not wins the game but is correct. We’re far from getting close to winning the game.

[Andresvmb]

Lol, it doesn't clear you, even if Scorpio flips maf.

Yeah, I don't agree with that. That's just what Andres said.

Not what I said. I didn’t say it cleared you. I said it made it very likely that you’re Town. Since you’ve made the loudest case against Scorpious here, sure you think that’s a sensible position yeah?

[Andresvmb]

You're telling me you had an inno on t3

I told you they didn’t give a shit.

[Andresvmb]

Kinda catching up. Early town read on Fua and leaning scum on Natalya but neither is super strong. Dwlee, with their pfp, looks frightening and inviting at the same time.

Why did you shade Natalya then?! When they haven’t tried to kill anyone? Talk about a low probability push.

[Andresvmb]

Kinda catching up. Early town read on Fua and leaning scum on Natalya but neither is super strong. Dwlee, with their pfp, looks frightening and inviting at the same time.

Why did you shade Natalya then?! When they haven’t tried to kill anyone? Talk about a low probability push.

Huh? I had a scumread on them and then I checked them that night. That was me.

I didn't have anything to do with T3 though.

You made the post I quoted today, D3. You’re saying that you put your early thoughts from reading the game into the thread while ignoring the actual result you received and you completely failed at mentioning that even though the game has been on the brink (and while DW voted Natalya too btw)? Is that what you’re saying?

[Andresvmb]

Btw Galron is always Town here. The sheer audacity to claim these results in the face of how the game has progressed seems too much for Scum. I would have surely claimed VT there.

[Andresvmb]

Like i didn't understand who had innocent result

Gamma had a result that said t3 either couldn't kill or had killed N1, and then voted t3 daystart (assuming galron town)

Do you think this is like an actual Scum slip? I really do think it’s way too in your face.

[Andresvmb]

A Psychologist in the hands of the Scum could be to help identify a Vigilante, but it’s a bit useless otherwise (and frankly, why? It’s a bit of a crappy role for Scum). The Detective? Also could be aimed at that in the hands of the Scum I guess, but at that point not only is it obvious there’s a Vigilante, they’ve probably claimed. It doesn’t seem all that useful, and then why claim it? It almost seems like the sort of role the Town would have in a game with a Vigilante.

[Andresvmb]

Unless Galron and Natalya are aligned, I’m inclined to believe it. But I do think we should check for associations there (mostly between Gamma and Natalya).

[Andresvmb]

Ugh is it something like Natalya/Retti/Fua?

This is my hero solve too. For what it’s worth.

[Andresvmb]

But Retti is the hardest one to really argue is Scum. That one you can probably replace with one of the slots saying they’ll sheep you.

[Andresvmb]

Wait that’s Enchant since Natalya is already on that list. Hm. Yeah I don’t know.

[Andresvmb]

If we vote for fua and we lose and Scorpious is Scum that would be even funnier. All that effort for nothing haha only to make it worse.

[Andresvmb]

andres and galron are mafia together, the immediate backing up of the claim is obvious

Hahaha what?!

[Andresvmb]

Like i didn't understand who had innocent result

Gamma had a result that said t3 either couldn't kill or had killed N1, and then voted t3 daystart (assuming galron town)

Do you think this is like an actual Scum slip? I really do think it’s way too in your face.

Here's what actually happened: he made a claim without actually checking to see if it made sense and you immediately moved to cover his ass for it

@DW, please tell me this is totally laughable for you too.

[Andresvmb]

Okay so... Hm lol

PLEASE tell me you’re not falling for this garbage.

[Andresvmb]

Retti doesn’t cop their Scum Reads? What kind of garbage statement is that?! So you don’t want to draw guilties, or save the Town from a misexecution?! If that’s actually how you play btw, stop doing that.

[Andresvmb]

A Psychologist in the hands of the Scum could be to help identify a Vigilante, but it’s a bit useless otherwise (and frankly, why? It’s a bit of a crappy role for Scum). The Detective? Also could be aimed at that in the hands of the Scum I guess, but at that point not only is it obvious there’s a Vigilante, they’ve probably claimed. It doesn’t seem all that useful, and then why claim it? It almost seems like the sort of role the Town would have in a game with a Vigilante.

Dude this is completely laughable and contrived reasoning - "he said he's those things so he must be real!"

T3 and Natalya are good checks. Enchant is not. Not sure why that’s hard to understand.

[Andresvmb]

Lack of critical thinking!

Okay I definitely touched a nerve today. Maybe I’m not that useless after all.

[Andresvmb]

A Psychologist in the hands of the Scum could be to help identify a Vigilante, but it’s a bit useless otherwise (and frankly, why? It’s a bit of a crappy role for Scum). The Detective? Also could be aimed at that in the hands of the Scum I guess, but at that point not only is it obvious there’s a Vigilante, they’ve probably claimed. It doesn’t seem all that useful, and then why claim it? It almost seems like the sort of role the Town would have in a game with a Vigilante.

Dude this is completely laughable and contrived reasoning - "he said he's those things so he must be real!"

T3 and Natalya are good checks. Enchant is not. Not sure why that’s hard to understand.

Why i am bad check

You replaced the worst yeah? Retti is claiming that you’re basically a player they had slotted as null, which is why they checked you, but I have a feeling that if I look back, Retti has probably stated that they think the worst is Town. Of course, they could have rescinded that read upon you entering the game (in which case, I would have to analyze that), so hold that thought for now.

[Andresvmb]

Let's find out if he's scum then.

VOTE: scorpious

This is basically a Scum claim.

If I had to take a guess, I would say this game is lost. Scorpious is Town, and is probably going to get executed because it’s the easy thing to do. Retti and fua are probably aligned as Scum, and I doubt Galron is Scum (probably just doesn’t care).

Lmao

So I can’t change my mind after further thinking about something? You just have to say Lmao but you haven’t questioned this until now? Why? It’s been out there for a while.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Galron

I think there's basically no chance there's 3 town investigative PRs in the same setup

So you think Galron is bussing Scorpious yeah? That’s basically what you’re concluding? So Galron decided to bus Scorpious with very little reasoning put out there, and I as the third member of the Team decided to hard defend Scorpious? So I go down as totally incompetent since my Partner is selling out the Partner I’m hard defending, in an attempt to set up who, Galron to win the game? Are you serious?

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Galron

I think there's basically no chance there's 3 town investigative PRs in the same setup

So you think Galron is bussing Scorpious yeah? That’s basically what you’re concluding? So Galron decided to bus Scorpious with very little reasoning put out there, and I as the third member of the Team decided to hard defend Scorpious? So I go down as totally incompetent since my Partner is selling out the Partner I’m hard defending, in an attempt to set up who, Galron to win the game? Are you serious?

That was my initial thought

though it occurs to me that maybe you were performatively distancing from the scorpious wagon in the hope it'd go through, because no one had any reason to trust you anyway

In which case maybe it's fua instead of scorpious or something, idk

Absurd. I am distancing from the wagon that WINS THE GAME FOR SCUM?! What kind of an idiot do you think I am?

[Andresvmb]

If Scorpious is Town and I’m Scum, I stay the fuck quiet. You’re supposedly Town and you’re shading Scorpious in alignment with fua and I do my very best to stop the wagon instead of just wait to win?! Never in a million fucking years unless I’m a total moron.

[Andresvmb]

@Galron can you please cross-vote?

[Andresvmb]

Actually hold that.

[Andresvmb]

For that vote to be game ending, the Team would have to be Enchant, fua and Natalya. But then Retti has incorrectly cleared Enchant and that’s not possible if they’re Town. Okay so if the Team from everyone else’s perspective is Natalya, fua and me, then Galron shouldn’t cross-vote but if anyone really wants to argue that by all means.

For me, Galron should cross-vote and we should decide between Retti and Galron. I want to actually finish reading if I’m going to put an actual meaningful vote down but I’m leaning Retti right now for obvious reasons.

[Andresvmb]

I'm just glad something is happening

You’re actually going to have to make a decision. I suspect Enchant is going to rely on you for their vote at the very least, and from the looks of it, that’s going to decide the game.

[Andresvmb]

i literally did not read aza's flip until now
VOTE: d w l e e

i want dwlee dead
i think they're scum
i think natalya is town

the way they keep brushing off my slot seems like scum trying to act too natural

Can we please yeet this

There is this to consider of course.

[Andresvmb]

@DW just vote between Retti and Galron and let’s get on with it. I’m almost certain we’re going to lose - trusting Pooky after what’s transpired makes no sense. Pooky is the one player that is more than willing to manipulate others as Scum by using emotion and appealing personally to people, and yet here we are listening to them (and them complaining that no one is listening to them!) after they’ve tunneled Town most of the game. Amazing.

[Andresvmb]

If Scorpious is Town and I’m Scum, I stay the fuck quiet. You’re supposedly Town and you’re shading Scorpious in alignment with fua and I do my very best to stop the wagon instead of just wait to win?! Never in a million fucking years unless I’m a total moron.

Dude I know how reverse psychology works I'm not an idiot

This is almost too dense for Town. Reverse psychology. Yeah, I actively pushed against the Scum win condition that you established because psychology. You can’t possibly be Town and argue such nonsense.

[Andresvmb]

I think I’m going to feel bad if we don’t execute Galron after potentially the worst claim in history, but if Retti is Scum I’m also going to be annoyed. There’s no winning here.

[Andresvmb]

im almost tempted to confscum scorp because the odds we get him to follow some plan if he's town is close to nill and it was kind of scummy as fuck when he was like "yo does that unvote actually count" like he's trying to see if he can quickhammer me or some bullshit

It’s funny - this could be true. Scorpious could very well have asked that question as Scum after their Partners are online and ready to hammer. But then why ask it in thread? It’s too brazen and you know it.

[Andresvmb]

Also, why are you putting that criticism exclusively toward me, and not toward Galron, fua? would've had just as much reason to out by your own terms but you have literally said nothing about his claim at all?

I agree with what Natalya has said about Galron, I’m just not pushing it because I think making posts just to echo another person and say ‘I agree’ is kind of lame. I don’t have anything new to say on the subject.

That sounds like a lot of bullshit. Why the fuck would you not care about making your opinion known on MELO? You're being selective in who you choose to vocalize opinions about

Okay. My opinion is that both you and Galron are full of crap and there was only one investigative in this game.

why the fuck would I CC my own partner

For what it’s worth I think it’s a 1v1 and the other player will be NK’ed if DW isn’t NK’ed.

[Andresvmb]

Look I’m having this issue - there’s some people that seem to be playing earnestly, but have lead us totally nowhere. So I’m having trouble trusting any of you. And instead of trying to establish a coherent case, we’re all just raging at each other.

I thought about it. Galron’s claim is highly suspect. There’s too strong of a contradiction between Gamma’s actions and the claim that Galron has issued. That vote for T3, which is a slot that was under heavy suspicion, when they checked to see if T3 had the ability to shoot, is egregious. I don’t think there’s any other way to look at it.

[Andresvmb]

I thought it was too in your face to be Scum. But Town have been doing nothing but shooting themselves in the foot all game. So it’s possible the Scum haven’t had to do much and got comfortable. But then, why not just claim VT? Are the Scum really trying to tease out a Gunsmith claim or something similar given the setup? I suppose if I find a way to clear myself, and {Enchant, DW, Retti} are all Confirmed Town, then you are left with a choice of 3 between {Galron, Scorpious, fua, Natalya}, with Galron confirmed Scum. That’s a tough spot to be in I guess, despite the fact that we’re in MElo. But then Natalya almost has to be Scum to me. Which is my struggle, and why I think this game is lost. Even if we succeed in choosing between Retti and Galron (Galron largely clears Natalya but not exactly, Retti is clearing Enchant), is fua Townier than Natalya? And is Scorpious Scum then? If that’s the case I’m probably going to get misexecuted and this is all a waste.

[Andresvmb]

I just have a hard time seeing why Galron fake claims there ever as Scum. Like why? What’s the point? It doesn’t stop the wagon against Scorpious, only clears Natalya, and then why do that?! There’s no need whatsoever unless they’re bussing and need to figure out if a Gunsmith might draw out a guilty that mechanically seals their fate? But was there even an indication of a Gunsmith in the game outside of a 1-Shot Vigilante? I don’t know, I just don’t know how to think about this situation and the fact that we really haven’t even gotten close to voting Scum is kind of disheartening.

[Andresvmb]

Galron largely clears Natalya

If you're talking about my result it was only that Natalya had not to that point killed or tried to kill anyone

Yeah I mean the entire Scum Team is alive so yeah Natalya doesn’t have to actually have made any kills and could still be Scum. That’s true. But it does lower the odds relatively speaking. And given how everyone has played and voted, that’s better than random in a game almost everyone in my mind has a random chance of being Scum with the exception of the 1v1 between you and Retti.

[Andresvmb]

Andres do you think pooky is scum here

I thought Natalya was surely Scum given the NK of Oman who was tunneled on you. Without your claim, you look suspicious as all shit and Natalya was arguing the same, and puts them in a wonderful position to push you, which is exactly how they started today. So yeah, I think all of that is still highly relevant.

[Andresvmb]

Eh the mods wouldn't put a godfather on an even-night gunsmith... Right?

If Retti is Town, I’m losing on Enchant Town absolutely every day of the week. That would be so absurd that it’s not worth thinking about. Not in a game this complicated.

[Andresvmb]

I've read back through those 20 pages, and honestly, I'm still hard on Dwlee for the same reasons. Especially insofar as the last two pages reinforce that. It's hard to consider Dwlee as "scumhunting" or "solving" when they're just so obsessed with who is voting them. Even seeing the "if i was a vig I'd vig you tonight" is such a damn frustrating thing to read because if you're scum it all tracks so hard, but if you're town it's so unhelpfully antagonistic.


A vote on Dwlee is -3, which I'm not sweating right now, but I am going to hold any vote past -3 until we see some more from the forgotten members of this game.

Oman was writing stuff like this and they got NK’ed, and I’m supposed to be certain it’s not a frame? C’mon now. They were setting you up for an option as a final execution to win the game.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: dwlee

you literally tunneled on t3 despite it being obvious he is not aligned with dwlee and dwlee being many times scummier and ignored everything i said about dwlee so im not sure how you think you are not responsible here

I mean, how are you ignoring this?

[Andresvmb]

Theoretically it could be scum setting up Natalya to push me but yea

If both Natalya and Oman are Town, and you’re Town, then there’s 0 need to shoot Oman, unless yeah they got wind that they were Rolecop and that’s the one huge caveat. They probably didn’t want to shoot there because then all they have to do is wait and that’s 2 Town practically convinced you’re Scum which wins them the game.

[Andresvmb]

So maybe Natalya has been bad and town and Scum was setting that up sure but was there a voice supporting that push? And do not for a second doubt that Pooky isn’t happy to set up a 1v1 there to win the game.

[Andresvmb]

I can’t trust fua, and I can’t trust Natalya, I think Galron’s claim is all kinds of terrible, and I can’t stop seeing Retti Scum with how they’re arguing against me. One of those players is Town, and that’s if you convince yourself that Enchant is Town (likely in my view), and Scorpious is Town (which is a spectacular assumption).

I just don’t see how we win haha to be totally honest so I’m happy shooting a shot and seeing if we have any chance to keep playing.

[Andresvmb]

The good thing is, the first decision is straight up Galron / Retti. Retti seems irritated, in genuine ways. This is hard to fake. And Galron does have the worst claim in history and very little content.

[Andresvmb]

it is not hard to fake being annoyed

You can do it well I know.

[Andresvmb]

And genuine emotion is hard to fake. You can somewhat tell if you read closely enough.

[Andresvmb]

I think Retti is just town, gamma had bad vibes Retti pointed out that I had noticed but not spoken about.

Okay so Galron first. I’m fine with this, as much as Retti is getting on my nerves assuming I’m a total idiot. Then fua has to be Scum. There’s a very interesting pivot today that happened I don’t know if you noticed the minute I started arguing forcefully for Retti Scum.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Galron

I think there's basically no chance there's 3 town investigative PRs in the same setup

So you think Galron is bussing Scorpious yeah? That’s basically what you’re concluding? So Galron decided to bus Scorpious with very little reasoning put out there, and I as the third member of the Team decided to hard defend Scorpious? So I go down as totally incompetent since my Partner is selling out the Partner I’m hard defending, in an attempt to set up who, Galron to win the game? Are you serious?

That was my initial thought

though it occurs to me that maybe you were performatively distancing from the scorpious wagon in the hope it'd go through, because no one had any reason to trust you anyway

In which case maybe it's fua instead of scorpious or something, idk

Absurd. I am distancing from the wagon that WINS THE GAME FOR SCUM?! What kind of an idiot do you think I am?

That’s actually a good point. Retti’s claim seems especially weird to me because there most likely won’t be a N4 to begin with. Why not put that out there at the start of the phase to narrow things down?

I might have honestly been tunneled to begin with. Andres I’ll consider your arguments and reevaluate if you consider mine.

Here.

[Andresvmb]

If executing Retti wins fua the game, and you want to push me towards that answer, then this is just brilliant.

[Andresvmb]

I think Retti is just town, gamma had bad vibes Retti pointed out that I had noticed but not spoken about.

Okay so Galron first. I’m fine with this, as much as Retti is getting on my nerves assuming I’m a total idiot. Then fua has to be Scum. There’s a very interesting pivot today that happened I don’t know if you noticed the minute I started arguing forcefully for Retti Scum.

So it's Galron/fua/retti? Is that what you're saying?

Clearly not. If you flip Scum, Retti I’m certain is Town. I think the third Scum is Natalya.

[Andresvmb]

I couldn’t make sense of the game state with Scorpious Scum but then who was voting Scorpious to start the day?

[Andresvmb]

2/3 of the Scum Team in fua/Galron? That’s bold.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: natalya

i cant even express how much i hate you all

This is not something I expect from Town in that position like ever btw. Only Scum that knows this doesn’t lead anywhere would place this vote with such confidence, since it’s a game losing vote if the Scum are active. This is also very blatant.

[Andresvmb]

It's only game losing when I add my vote and she sits in quickhammer for a nonzero amount of time

Yeah and the game didn’t end now did it? That’s the point. They were asked to Unvote and they took their time.

[Andresvmb]

just vote for me

town clearly doesnt want to win this game why waste our time

That claim by Natalya is almost too much of a blatant lie that I am actually laughing. When you Unvoted?! Unless you ignored every post after your self-vote, and the entire context of the game coming into today, how could you have not known until then? That’s obvious bullshit.

[Andresvmb]

I’m back tonight btw.

Wya

I wish I had posted more earlier. I would have clashed with Oman and definitely vibed with the worst, and it would have been fun. We would have gotten more out of the game I think.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Galron

[Andresvmb]

I didn’t quickhammer it as Scum relax.

[Andresvmb]

Yes I’m sure. DW put a vote down for Galron. I don’t need to sneakily try and quick hammer it to win the game if I’m Scum I just vote it and it’s over.

[Andresvmb]

Enchant just vote for Galron. This game has gone poorly enough - the last thing it needs is for you to try and act like a hero and go against the Confirmed Town voice for no good reason at all.

[Andresvmb]

Then don’t end it.

I’ll leave my vote. Let’s see if anything happens. Maybe that way I’ll clear myself to boot.

[Andresvmb]

Did I prove myself as not Galron’s Partner at least @Retti? That clear enough for you?

[Andresvmb]

DW I’m going to say this now because I like playing with you and I think we get along pretty well - there’s no chance in hell I would be doing this as Scum. None. Come back to this after the game is over and actually rely on it in other games when you suspect me. I am literally barreling forward in ways that should seriously indicate to you I’m not aligned with others. Do you really think I engage in that back and forth with Retti if we’re Partners? I am not nearly this confident as Scum to engage in such theater. You want a tell? That’s one.

I would understand if you perhaps think I’m bussing here. That’s the only reasonable conclusion I think there is if you really do believe I’m Scum. Because I did defend Galron only to go back on that hard. But Galron’s vote on me is a brilliant clue. That vote is pure tilt. Tell me I’m wrong.

[Andresvmb]

im kind of tempted to bet it on retti/fua/andres scum team

ngl it would be pretty funny if this was actually the solve

i'm kind of a moron so you shouldn't actually listen to me 95% of the time

Stop trying to act like you’re bad. You’re not.

[Andresvmb]

@Enchant @Retti, the Scum just gifted us the game. They basically claimed, thinking that the game was over, forgetting that the Vigilante correctly shooting one of them leaves them with 2 members and 5 still alive. So this game is won. The Team is {fua, Natalya, Scorpious}, and they outted thinking that the game was over. {fua, Scorpious} synchronized their votes in blatant fashion to hammer Galron at the end of D3, and Natalya posted GG two minutes after. This is incredible. The game went from totally lost to a certain victory due to hubris.

I don’t think there’s much to discuss, but if you do want to ask me any questions, please do so.

[Andresvmb]

At the very least the synchronization of the votes by fua and Scorpious is OBVIOUS. I don’t think that’s even debatable.

[Andresvmb]

... No way mafia so stupid. Even i predicted Dwlee99 could hide some shots, and i am degenerate.

Maybe i am overthinking things, idk, let's discuss before speedrunning.

The votes from fua and Scorpious came at exactly the same time. Explain that hammer of Town without it being discussed in thread and remember that DW had claimed to be a 1-Shot Vigilante.

[Andresvmb]

In the context of a game that was widely assumed to be in MElo.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Galron

Yolo

VOTE: Galron

GG.

GG

This is brutal. I don’t see how we ever ignore this. What was the GG for? Good game Town, we’re going to win? No, obviously not. And when was the last time you saw this from Town unless the deadline was incredibly pressing? Which it must be said, just wasn’t the case yesterday.

DW intended to bait a synchronized hammer. I think I didn’t properly understand the play until after it happened. And the Scum absolutely took the bait. It’s a game winning play. Let’s not squander it.

[Andresvmb]

Well, "some" players like pissed off townies could say GG to mafia.

Clearly not the case. There’s no ranting from Natalya there. They weren’t even defending Galron, though they were heavily shading Retti. Look at Retti’s reaction at the end of the day. Retti clearly understood that the synchronized hammer was coming from Scum and was complaining that the setup made it incredibly likely that the Gunsmith and the Psychologist / Detective would counterclaim thinking that they both couldn’t exist as Town.

[Andresvmb]

It’s hubris. The Scum assumed (and more often than not DW is telling the truth there) that nothing stood between the hammer and outright victory. They were wrong and if we don’t punish it, you are not going to hear the end of it post game.

[Andresvmb]

Absolutely happy to do that.

[Andresvmb]

Scorpious is the more guaranteed Scum. The synchronized votes are just undeniable.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Scorpious

[Andresvmb]

@Retti hammer it whenever you are ready.

[Andresvmb]

I guess we’re not worried that Retti claimed the flipped Scum’s role?

[Andresvmb]

UNVOTE:

[Andresvmb]

@Enchant just Unvote for a minute.

[Andresvmb]

Look thinking about it, I’m more certain Natalya is Scum. That GG is killer. If Scum were waiting on someone to vote and then just timed it perfectly, then it’s

possible

(though I really doubt it) that Scorpious is Town.

[Andresvmb]

It actually "Makes" sense...
I think...

Like, Gunsmith is Guilty for other Gunsmiths.

Ah that’s a good point.

Okay I’m fine either way.

[Andresvmb]

I just wanted to make sure that at least we considered that.

[Andresvmb]

I had no idea that was going to happen. I was just as shocked.

Like dude was waiting and it was weird.

For obvious reasons I don’t believe shit you say.

[Andresvmb]

@Enchant I would be more comfortable executing Natalya. I think Natalya is certain Scum.

[Andresvmb]

@Enchant I would be more comfortable executing Natalya. I think Natalya is certain Scum.

Actually makes me remember how you tried vote as well lol.

If you want to accuse me of being Scum when I heavily shaded the flipped Scum, by all means.

[Andresvmb]

Had it been up to me, fua would have been executed yesterday and I think that’s blatantly obvious.

[Andresvmb]

Does scum have day talk?

It’s not specified in the rules, but your blatant question to try and act Town is denied.

@Enchant, can you ask the Mod this? It should be properly set out in the rules.

[Andresvmb]

Look fua and Natalya don’t both post GG as Town haha back to back. And fua is guaranteed Scum. I’m certain Natalya is Scum. I am like 99% Scorpious is Scum, but I am not going to demand you have the same level of certainty. In my mind, Enchant you’re certain Town. Retti has a real outside chance of being Scum I suppose, but that would mean that his reaction to end the day was faked following what appear to be coordinated votes and do you really believe that? Just the overall record of the game points to Retti Town and I don’t think I’m ever voting away from that.

[Andresvmb]

If the last Scum was Retti and the other two Scum have posted GG, do you really think the third Scum has that reaction? There’s just no way. The Scum clearly believed the game was won. It’s super clear. That much is not up for debate.

[Andresvmb]

Does scum have day talk?

It’s not specified in the rules, but your blatant question to try and act Town is denied.

@Enchant, can you ask the Mod this? It should be properly set out in the rules.

I’m not “acting” town, I’m trying to figure out how someone could do that to me so
Precisely.

You don’t have to talk to me anymore my mind is absolutely firm on what I’m going to vote on.

[Andresvmb]

Natalya should be the vote today. I am convinced that’s the best course of action.

[Andresvmb]

I received "No by default".

Encryptor or something like that could allow them.

What is even that answer?

Well then the synchronized vote theory goes out the window. So Natalya is the much better vote.

[Andresvmb]

Huh well then. Natalya it is. I won’t dictate what Retti does, but I am now completely backing away from assuming Scorpious is Scum.

[Andresvmb]

Ah no wait let’s just flip Natalya and if they flip Encriptor or something then that’s fine we can assume they did coordinate that and we can execute Scorpious. Let’s hope we get lucky. I still can’t see how I vote for Retti anyway.

[Andresvmb]

@Enchant any complaints?

[Andresvmb]

I am not accusing, i just finding it ironic.

Let everyone speak i quess. Atleast i don't feel ready.

Sure. Take your time. I have made my points.

[Andresvmb]

It's just scorp/natalya yeah? was a coordinated quickhammer

The only question is whether they could actually coordinate it based on the fact that by default the Scum don’t have daytalk unless their PT has an Encryptor, but yeah it’s like 99%. Natalya for sure is Scum. The GG that followed fua’s is a total giveaway. Scorpious could have been played for a fool if you want to squint your eyes super hard and ignore logic completely but yeah I don’t see it.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Natalya

Alright let’s go.

[Andresvmb]

Not letting you pollute the thread. 1v1 here we go.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Scorpious

I’m voting you. C’mon now.

[Andresvmb]

The only question is whether they could actually coordinate it based on the fact that by default the Scum don’t have daytalk unless their PT has an Encryptor, but yeah it’s like 99%. Natalya for sure is Scum. The GG that followed fua’s is a total giveaway. Scorpious could have been played for a fool if you want to squint your eyes super hard and ignore logic completely but yeah I don’t see it.

how is it a giveaway?

two scumbags quickhammered and I thought we lost the game

why would I not say GG?

Bullshit.

[Andresvmb]

Bullshit.

explain

Nah I have already. We’re not going to talk until post-game. I understand you have to engage in this. I’m not going to speak to confirmed Scum.

[Andresvmb]

I do think Scorpious is Scum. Are you not reading?

[Andresvmb]

Okay Natalya.

@Retti, @Enchant, feel free to ask any questions you may have.

[Andresvmb]

Yep that’s the only knock against you. Absolutely.

[Andresvmb]

I’m not desperate at all. I am totally open to answer any questions. I think my efforts yesterday clearly opened up the game. I think that much should be clear. I also think I have clearly attacked Scum this game and should get some credit for that. I also think I’m the only viable option for a push for Natalya to win the game. I’m totally happy executing Scorpious since I voted there to begin with. If I had been so afraid as a Traitor about to lose the game or whatever nonsense Natalya is spewing, surely I act differently. But whatever.

[Andresvmb]

You keep insisting about me defending Scorpious today when in my first post I highlighted the coordinated nature of the votes. Doesn’t make too much sense that you keep saying I don’t think Scorpious is Scum when I have very clearly said so.

[Andresvmb]

What. I knew Scorpious was Scum you doofus.

[Andresvmb]

It doesn’t matter.

[Andresvmb]

We still needed to kill Retti and I was never going to win that 1v1.

[Andresvmb]

Obviously Retti comes in tomorrow claiming to have a guilty on me and I’m up against them with Enchant in the game. Or we have a 1v1 and we both vote each other.

[Andresvmb]

How are you obvTown?! Like fuck you.

[Andresvmb]

I MADE THE POINT FOR FUCKS SAKE.

[Andresvmb]

Alright that’s enough. This is crossing the line. I made an error and I apologize. I clearly screwed up and will not be playing around here anymore.

[Andresvmb]

I apologize to my fellow Town players for not realizing that the Gunsmith flip really was totally damning. I mentioned it to Enchant and perhaps we should have debated that. I got really excited about DW making a brilliant move and I ignored the obvious.

[Andresvmb]

I knew Scorpious was Scum I felt the coordinated votes made that clear but I think I would have still committed the error in the end of voting incorrectly while ignoring facts. So again, my sincere apologies. I try to play as well as I can. I would also like to apologize for lurking - I stated why and I don’t think I need to reiterate that. It was just the holidays and my travels back home for the first time in two years that distracted me from the game.

[Andresvmb]

I’m sorry Pooky. I think my playing history demonstrates that generally speaking I care about not doing stupid shit. I made a logical error. I should have realized that the Gunsmith flip really was horrendous. I take back anything negative I said about other players and I will take a break realizing that I need to improve. This is a great humbling experience, as most Mafia games really are.

This is a sad way to end a streak of 25 consecutive games as Town.

Well played Scum, and Retti in particular.