Mini Normal 2242 | Opossum Mafia | Game Over!
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T3 claimed under duress a role that should have had him catching a bullet.
He not only lived through the night, he refuses to out results.
My guess is, he doesn't want to wind up getting it wrong and having his "results" countered.-
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I have no doubt that he probably crumbed some bullshit to cookie but doesn't want it outed in case his guess is wrong.
I've been let off the hook quite a bit for TWTBAW. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.-
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It would be hard to justify targeting an outed hood.In post 1506, TheZenMan wrote:
Yeah, I said this before too that it was weird that T3 survived N1. Make no mistake he is very scummy to me right now and I could go for D2 elim of him.In post 1501, House wrote:T3 claimed under duress a role that should have had him catching a bullet.
He not only lived through the night, he refuses to out results.
My guess is, he doesn't want to wind up getting it wrong and having his "results" countered.
About the second point, shouldn't it be easy to fake result since the neighbourhood is outed?-
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And by hard, I mean impossible.-
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A50, who do you think redtea should target on a T3 red flip? Green flip?-
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Most likely the pronouns of cookie's main, if I have to guess.In post 1511, TheZenMan wrote:Sorry still not used to all abbreviations. What's fae and faer?-
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I highly doubt there is, which is why a positive result outside of the claimed hood would be damning.In post 1513, TheZenMan wrote:
Yeah probably, but I meant more that since the neighbourhood is outed already it is easy for T3 to make a fake check. Unless you think there is a second neighbourhood?In post 1508, House wrote:And by hard, I mean impossible.
When that "positive result" flipped green, T3 would die the next day.
If that "negative result" claimed a way to communicate, T3 would die the same day.-
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T3 is buddying cookie to make faer how town beard and simultaneously denying info to the rest of town.-
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In post 1515, House wrote:T3 is buddying cookie to make faer his* town beard and simultaneously denying info to the rest of town.-
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I still think I'm right, though.In post 1520, Almost50 wrote:
Actually the pronouns faer opted to list on this accountIn post 1512, House wrote:
Most likely the pronouns of cookie's main, if I have to guess.In post 1511, TheZenMan wrote:Sorry still not used to all abbreviations. What's fae and faer?-
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In post 1441, T3 wrote:JOh. You don't know?In post 1442, T3 wrote:Anyways, I'm don't think the neighbors are both town. Most of the games I've seen neighbors in they've been either s/s or t/s.In post 1443, T3 wrote:Combine this with the earlier thing and you should seeif you don't already.
Kay?In post 1445, T3 wrote:I might. I might not. Either way, cookie knows my result. So if one of us dies the other person will know to potentially box scum into a corner later.
Not quite.In post 1527, T3 wrote:the first letter of my first 2 posts were 'nr' then after cookie posted next i realized i forgot to crumb my target and the first letter of those 4 posts were 'jack'-
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Conveniently, he can't be confirmed or countered.
@T3: Why Jacket?-
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I can't read DotW.In post 1530, Almost50 wrote:@House: How do you feel about DotW? I think a redtea shot there is fine
I'd rather you not take a bullet to prove a point. Your play stands on its own merits.-
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Him either.In post 1533, Almost50 wrote:Man! I meant STD.. well.. the DRAGON in this game-
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@T3 why in the world would you assume that cookie would "know" you're town when you provided no information that is actually beneficial to town??-
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@A50: Since I'm pushing T3 right along with you, if T3 is somehow actually town here
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Might as well finish what he started on Three, IMHO.In post 1543, Almost50 wrote:OK.. bit that's IF T3 flips green. If he flips red though redtea should either holster, waste another shot on three, or shoot STD anyway.
Makes no sense to stop halfway through.-
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Let's work this out...
Claims so far are:
Gated vig
TA/NF
Bulletproof Neighbor
Neighbor
Informed Townie/Mailman
That's a lot of power against a bulletproof traitor and 2 group scum, ESPECIALLY if both group scum are also PR's which leaves all of the scum vulnerable to the gated vig (at some point, at any rate).
If at least one group scum is goon for vig immunity, the power balance gets even weirder.
There's definitely shenanigans going on in claimed roles.-
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This is all going way too fast and feeling way too easy.
UNVOTE:
I need to reconsider.-
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You really should.In post 1553, Almost50 wrote:@House: If I'm wrong I ESPECIALLY apologize to you. I know I'm being "unfriendly" to you with this accusation, and I should probably stop trying to read you in furture games.-
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We're barely into the day and you're at E-1, dude.-
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In post 1557, House wrote:We're barely into the day and T3's* at E-1, dude.-
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Wtf.In post 1553, Almost50 wrote:@STD: Your "I don't want to lim T3" was the final nail. I already started thinking of the situation when House volunteered to be shot instead of you, and again when he asserted redtea should shoot three again. It looked like a blatant attempt to deter the shot off you (and confirmed the team doesn't have a RB), but if you had voted T3 I probably would have thought it was too crazy to be true.
I don't want StD shot because he hasn't claimed, and if redtea says he's going to shoot there it could out even more power.
Where's your head?!
VOTE: A50-
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No.In post 1570, Almost50 wrote:
More power?? Do you think this is a ROLE MADNESS?In post 1564, House wrote:
Wtf.In post 1553, Almost50 wrote:@STD: Your "I don't want to lim T3" was the final nail. I already started thinking of the situation when House volunteered to be shot instead of you, and again when he asserted redtea should shoot three again. It looked like a blatant attempt to deter the shot off you (and confirmed the team doesn't have a RB), but if you had voted T3 I probably would have thought it was too crazy to be true.
I don't want StD shot because he hasn't claimed, and if redtea says he's going to shoot there it could out even more power.
Where's your head?!
VOTE: A50
I think there are shenanigans in the claimed power that already exists.
I'VE ALREADY SAID THIS.-
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In post 1573, Almost50 wrote:
So there are THREE Bulletproofs in the setup? because BOTH me and zen are 1-shot BP. (that's the part we decided he should leave out when he claimed)In post 1567, Jacket wrote:
This is actually close to what I was thinking. Except it makes more sense for cool cookie to be the traitor, since mailman returns a positive to a traffic analyst but a negative to a neighbor finder.In post 1553, Almost50 wrote:T3's role was designed for Scum to identify their Traitor in at least 2 steps, and the Mailman is their "Miller" (gives them a false +ve)-
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You don't see the problem with TWO players claiming identical roles AS TOWN?In post 1576, Almost50 wrote:
Well.. I could lowkey see your point, with both BP neighbors designed to be -ve utilities for both sides. Scum get failed NKs and Town gets falls +ve (Via COMPLEX VIG though, NOT the TA/Neighbor Finder)In post 1567, Jacket wrote:
This is actually close to what I was thinking. Except it makes more sense for cool cookie to be the traitor, since mailman returns a positive to a traffic analyst but a negative to a neighbor finder.In post 1553, Almost50 wrote:T3's role was designed for Scum to identify their Traitor in at least 2 steps, and the Mailman is their "Miller" (gives them a false +ve)
That... completely flies over your head?
No. Just fucking no.
If you were town, you'd be screaming CC at Zen all day long.-
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Can you link to a (completed) game that has 2 of the same roles where both are town-aligned that gives you that belief?In post 1585, TheZenMan wrote:
This is the part that actually made me trust A50 the most in the beginning. He had the same role as me, and disclosed his before I did. That's what made me trust him because I figured we have the exact same role. But I gues BP traitor neighbour would claim to be a BP neighbour. I also found it weird that A50 went straight to claiming BP instead of trying to bait a shot with claiming Vanlilla. Then later he regrets it...In post 1577, House wrote:
You don't see the problem with TWO players claiming identical roles AS TOWN?In post 1576, Almost50 wrote:
Well.. I could lowkey see your point, with both BP neighbors designed to be -ve utilities for both sides. Scum get failed NKs and Town gets falls +ve (Via COMPLEX VIG though, NOT the TA/Neighbor Finder)In post 1567, Jacket wrote:
This is actually close to what I was thinking. Except it makes more sense for cool cookie to be the traitor, since mailman returns a positive to a traffic analyst but a negative to a neighbor finder.In post 1553, Almost50 wrote:T3's role was designed for Scum to identify their Traitor in at least 2 steps, and the Mailman is their "Miller" (gives them a false +ve)
That... completely flies over your head?
No. Just fucking no.
If you were town, you'd be screaming CC at Zen all day long.
Last I knew, that doesn't happen BECAUSE it leads to town cc'ing town.-
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Counterclaiming is a thing because scum claim roles that town actually has.In post 1588, TheZenMan wrote:
I actually thought it was more likely we were both town because we had the same role. Like some strange mind games the designers were playing. I am not that familiar with setups here to know how plausible it was.In post 1586, House wrote:
Can you link to a (completed) game that has 2 of the same roles where both are town-aligned that gives you that belief?In post 1585, TheZenMan wrote:
This is the part that actually made me trust A50 the most in the beginning. He had the same role as me, and disclosed his before I did. That's what made me trust him because I figured we have the exact same role. But I gues BP traitor neighbour would claim to be a BP neighbour. I also found it weird that A50 went straight to claiming BP instead of trying to bait a shot with claiming Vanlilla. Then later he regrets it...In post 1577, House wrote:
You don't see the problem with TWO players claiming identical roles AS TOWN?In post 1576, Almost50 wrote:
Well.. I could lowkey see your point, with both BP neighbors designed to be -ve utilities for both sides. Scum get failed NKs and Town gets falls +ve (Via COMPLEX VIG though, NOT the TA/Neighbor Finder)In post 1567, Jacket wrote:
This is actually close to what I was thinking. Except it makes more sense for cool cookie to be the traitor, since mailman returns a positive to a traffic analyst but a negative to a neighbor finder.In post 1553, Almost50 wrote:T3's role was designed for Scum to identify their Traitor in at least 2 steps, and the Mailman is their "Miller" (gives them a false +ve)
That... completely flies over your head?
No. Just fucking no.
If you were town, you'd be screaming CC at Zen all day long.
Last I knew, that doesn't happen BECAUSE it leads to town cc'ing town.
If it came from both alignments, there would be zero utility in counterclaiming.-
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Funny how your "solve" flew out right after I got cold feet on the T3 wagon.In post 1590, Almost50 wrote:I would urge everybody to calm down and try to think things over from at least 2 different perspectives.
My proposed solve was originally mean to be a PM top the mod (I didn't think it was worth requesting a private personal thread, so was going to "vent it all out" for post-game bragging rights.
Then it hit me my solve -if correct- could actually end the game by tomorrow. We lim one scum today, shoot another by night and lim the third tomorrow. I rethought ot and it seemed plausible, so I decided I should post in the main thread instead.
But I think you're "my" traitor?
It is for to laugh.-
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How so?In post 1597, T3 wrote:
I recently played a mini normal with 2 cops. But this is different.In post 1586, House wrote:
Can you link to a (completed) game that has 2 of the same roles where both are town-aligned that gives you that belief?In post 1585, TheZenMan wrote:
This is the part that actually made me trust A50 the most in the beginning. He had the same role as me, and disclosed his before I did. That's what made me trust him because I figured we have the exact same role. But I gues BP traitor neighbour would claim to be a BP neighbour. I also found it weird that A50 went straight to claiming BP instead of trying to bait a shot with claiming Vanlilla. Then later he regrets it...In post 1577, House wrote:
You don't see the problem with TWO players claiming identical roles AS TOWN?In post 1576, Almost50 wrote:
Well.. I could lowkey see your point, with both BP neighbors designed to be -ve utilities for both sides. Scum get failed NKs and Town gets falls +ve (Via COMPLEX VIG though, NOT the TA/Neighbor Finder)In post 1567, Jacket wrote:
This is actually close to what I was thinking. Except it makes more sense for cool cookie to be the traitor, since mailman returns a positive to a traffic analyst but a negative to a neighbor finder.In post 1553, Almost50 wrote:T3's role was designed for Scum to identify their Traitor in at least 2 steps, and the Mailman is their "Miller" (gives them a false +ve)
That... completely flies over your head?
No. Just fucking no.
If you were town, you'd be screaming CC at Zen all day long.
Last I knew, that doesn't happen BECAUSE it leads to town cc'ing town.
Link?-
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That is not the same role.In post 1591, Jacket wrote:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87504In post 1586, House wrote:
Can you link to a (completed) game that has 2 of the same roles where both are town-aligned that gives you that belief?In post 1585, TheZenMan wrote:
This is the part that actually made me trust A50 the most in the beginning. He had the same role as me, and disclosed his before I did. That's what made me trust him because I figured we have the exact same role. But I gues BP traitor neighbour would claim to be a BP neighbour. I also found it weird that A50 went straight to claiming BP instead of trying to bait a shot with claiming Vanlilla. Then later he regrets it...In post 1577, House wrote:
You don't see the problem with TWO players claiming identical roles AS TOWN?In post 1576, Almost50 wrote:
Well.. I could lowkey see your point, with both BP neighbors designed to be -ve utilities for both sides. Scum get failed NKs and Town gets falls +ve (Via COMPLEX VIG though, NOT the TA/Neighbor Finder)In post 1567, Jacket wrote:
This is actually close to what I was thinking. Except it makes more sense for cool cookie to be the traitor, since mailman returns a positive to a traffic analyst but a negative to a neighbor finder.In post 1553, Almost50 wrote:T3's role was designed for Scum to identify their Traitor in at least 2 steps, and the Mailman is their "Miller" (gives them a false +ve)
That... completely flies over your head?
No. Just fucking no.
If you were town, you'd be screaming CC at Zen all day long.
Last I knew, that doesn't happen BECAUSE it leads to town cc'ing town.
This game had a 1-shot even night cop and a Night 2 Cop (effectively the same role). I think trying to outguess the mod is bad. (To be clear, I scumread T3 on play. Not just role spec stuff.)
Notice the different gates?
A50 adopted Zen's modifier.-
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If Zen was still townreading A50, I'd postulate that he was full bp and A50 was 1-shot in an attempt to WIFOM scum, but that's clearly not happening, here.-
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It's almost like there's more than 2 players in the game!In post 1606, Almost50 wrote:
What full BP? Who gives FULL BP in a game like this?? What's the Complex Vig for then??In post 1604, House wrote:If Zen was still townreading A50, I'd postulate that he was full bp and A50 was 1-shot in an attempt to WIFOM scum, but that's clearly not happening, here.-
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Aside from A50 not counterclaiming Zen for having his exact role and suddenly theorizing that I'm scum thinking he's my traitor after I got cold feet on an early day E-1 wagon?In post 1609, HawaiianPizza wrote:is there a case on someone
Nah.-
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They both claim 1-shot bp.In post 1611, HawaiianPizza wrote:
does this mean they both claim bulletproof?In post 1610, House wrote:
Aside from A50 not counterclaiming Zen for having his exact role and suddenly theorizing that I'm scum thinking he's my traitor after I got cold feet on an early day E-1 wagon?In post 1609, HawaiianPizza wrote:is there a case on someone
Nah.
well, after sautéing a braincell, i can say i do expect a wolf in the PR claims, and i was leaning towards it being in the neighbours, who are... apparently both bulletproof now?
i still trust cool cookie's claim fwiw, idk much about recent events-
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*raises hand*
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Considering that revelation never came to you...
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Ridiculous wall of nothing trying to look productive.In post 1621, Almost50 wrote:In post 1618, House wrote:Considering that revelation never came to you...Spoiler:
Why do I say this?
Because I can counter his entire wall with lists I'VE ALREADY MADE.
In post 1577, House wrote:
You don't see the problem with TWO players claiming identical roles AS TOWN?In post 1576, Almost50 wrote:
Well.. I could lowkey see your point, with both BP neighbors designed to be -ve utilities for both sides. Scum get failed NKs and Town gets falls +ve (Via COMPLEX VIG though, NOT the TA/Neighbor Finder)In post 1567, Jacket wrote:
This is actually close to what I was thinking. Except it makes more sense for cool cookie to be the traitor, since mailman returns a positive to a traffic analyst but a negative to a neighbor finder.In post 1553, Almost50 wrote:T3's role was designed for Scum to identify their Traitor in at least 2 steps, and the Mailman is their "Miller" (gives them a false +ve)
That... completely flies over your head?
No. Just fucking no.
If you were town, you'd be screaming CC at Zen all day long.In post 1547, House wrote:There's definitely shenanigans going on in claimed roles.In post 1572, House wrote:I think there are shenanigans in the claimed power that already exists.
I'VE ALREADY SAID THIS.-
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EBWOPIn post 1622, House wrote:
Ridiculous wall of nothing trying to look productive.In post 1621, Almost50 wrote:In post 1618, House wrote:Considering that revelation never came to you...Spoiler:
Why do I say this?
Because I can counter his entire wall with posts* I'VE ALREADY MADE.
In post 1577, House wrote:
You don't see the problem with TWO players claiming identical roles AS TOWN?In post 1576, Almost50 wrote:
Well.. I could lowkey see your point, with both BP neighbors designed to be -ve utilities for both sides. Scum get failed NKs and Town gets falls +ve (Via COMPLEX VIG though, NOT the TA/Neighbor Finder)In post 1567, Jacket wrote:
This is actually close to what I was thinking. Except it makes more sense for cool cookie to be the traitor, since mailman returns a positive to a traffic analyst but a negative to a neighbor finder.In post 1553, Almost50 wrote:T3's role was designed for Scum to identify their Traitor in at least 2 steps, and the Mailman is their "Miller" (gives them a false +ve)
That... completely flies over your head?
No. Just fucking no.
If you were town, you'd be screaming CC at Zen all day long.In post 1547, House wrote:There's definitely shenanigans going on in claimed roles.In post 1572, House wrote:I think there are shenanigans in the claimed power that already exists.
I'VE ALREADY SAID THIS.-
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Disagree.In post 1630, cool cookie wrote:interesting post.
He's just rehashing shit.
That's why my copypasta is a valid response to his post.-
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Yes.In post 1632, HawaiianPizza wrote:i'm reading that we don't even have to exterminate the traitor to win?
uh is this true?
They still count against town's majority, however.-
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So FYPOV scum!cookie messages scum!T3 to tell him how to crumb/fake a crumb to fae, then drops the ball on picking up the very information fae told him to put out?In post 1654, Jacket wrote:This whole thing where cool cookie is insisting we protect a dead-ass useless PR for multiple days makes no sense.-
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That's not the link I saw.In post 1659, Dwlee99 wrote:Did anyone think anything of the game I mentioned where there were two neighbors with the same roles and town (both ungated role cops in fact)
The game I was linked to had a n2 cop and an even night cop.
Not the same thing at all.-
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groupscum in the same hood with traitor isn't impossible, and would make T3 incredibly valuable had all these claims not been shit all over the place.-
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Where did this happen?In post 1669, TheZenMan wrote:Plus, I believe he tried to leave a breadcrumb for his scum partners that I was also BP when I had claimed VT and was trying to draw scum shot to me.-
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Now see, this is why I don't bother with crumb hunting.In post 1676, TheZenMan wrote:Where he says "In hindsight I should not have claimed my BP. That would have been risky because of the Complex Vig thing, but it would have been beneficial to draw the NK and take Scum by surprise." This was when he knew I was actually BP but was claiming VT in order to draw night shot from scum. To me it's a completely unnecessary comment, and only serves as a breadcrumb from a traitor to scum about me being BP.
I'd have never been able to do enough math to make that add up.-
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Do you townread both A50 & Zen independent of the existence of the hood?In post 1680, Save The Dragons wrote:my problem is that the neighborhood may or may not be influenced by past games and in a vacuum there's any possible combination of alignments in the neighborhood between {town, scum, traitor}
do you have any other thoughts dwlee-
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In post 1682, House wrote:
Do you townread both A50 & Zen independent of the existence of the hood?In post 1680, Save The Dragons wrote:my problem is that the neighborhood may or may not be influenced by past games and in a vacuum there's any possible combination of alignments in the neighborhood between {town, scum, traitor}
do you have any other thoughts dwlee
I did not expect this response.In post 1683, Save The Dragons wrote:no
I expected you to say yes, because "no" does not line up with
In post 1625, Save The Dragons wrote:i think it might be better to hunt outside the hood-
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Okay.In post 1685, Save The Dragons wrote:if people want A50 i'm willing to go there
What changed your mind?-
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I've never cared about those kinds of logical gymnastics.In post 1690, Save The Dragons wrote:
did you miss this post houseIn post 1664, Save The Dragons wrote:the only reason i'm not on A50 right now is because i think he's the traitor and i want to find scum
I'm a simple guy. Red is dead.
If a player reads as scum to me, I'm not going to wrack my brain trying to figure out which one. That's losing WIFOM, IMHO.-
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House Survivor
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Screw your order.In post 1770, Dwlee99 wrote:Jacket
HawaiianPizza
House
Save The Dragons
I can claim somewhere in here but preferably after jacket/Hawaiian. Others have claimed I think
I'm not claiming unless we popcorn.-
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House Survivor
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Neither do I, but I only participate in massclaims via popcorn method.In post 1775, Save The Dragons wrote:i have no problems claiming
It's policy.-
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House Survivor
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It's also more informational than some drummed up list.-
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Can somebody walk me through why we would not have a TA since redtea was a gated vig?
Weak/Loyal/Disloyal, I'd understand, but Complex just told him whether the player is PR/Vanilla.
Would 2 power roles that can both give false positives not be the rough equivalent of 1 actually useful investigational role?-
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House Survivor
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Why would a Mafia TA need a false positive (cool cookie)?-
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Oh, to offset the neighbors, perhaps?-
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PT Cop is a new role to me. It didn't exist when I was here last.In post 1784, Three wrote:
It certainly can be useful, but that's not the problem.In post 1779, House wrote:Can somebody walk me through why we would not have a TA since redtea was a gated vig?
Weak/Loyal/Disloyal, I'd understand, but Complex just told him whether the player is PR/Vanilla.
Would 2 power roles that can both give false positives not be the rough equivalent of 1 actually useful investigational role?
What use does Town have for being able to find Neighbors? TA can find scum, sure, but Neighbor Finder has no real town use, and the fact that both Neighbors are BP just seems more helpful for scum to find than town.
I am however willing to listen to a town case for a Neighbor Finder given the context of our Neighbors being BP in a set up that is confirmed to have a BP Traitor.
I don't know the intracacies and full utility of it.
A method of testing claims, perhaps? That doesn't confirm alignment, though. The other half of his role is more useful for that, if he's town.
IDK. :/-
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Because it's a dumb claim to make up?In post 1783, Dwlee99 wrote:
I mean I agree, but I'm not sure why you would assume that it's a real claim instead of made up.In post 1780, House wrote:Why would a Mafia TA need a false positive (cool cookie)?
If T3 had only claimed TA, then sure maybe it is made up, but PT Cop actually worksagainsthim.
I don't see why he would fake that.-
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Why would he claim blocked n2 but not n3 if he's lying when claiming to be blocked again n3 would be more believable?In post 1787, Three wrote:Also why wasn't T3 blocked? We already think he's fake claiming, but if he's town why would scum risk not blocking him in case he is actually fake claiming and has a more substantial PR?
To put it another way, if I was scum and T3 was town, I don't start randomly blocking other people. It's just such an unnecessary risk.
I recommend everyone else think through that hypothetical situation themselves. If you're scum and T3 is town, do you really risk not blocking him Night 2?
The fact it makes him look worse than maintaining a blocked claim actually gives it credibility, to me. *shrug*-
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Sorry, I misremembered.In post 1263, T3 wrote:
Odd Night Traffic Analyst Even Night Neighbor FinderIn post 1247, Almost50 wrote:@T3: I dunno if you're Town or Scum, but delaying your full claim any further is scummy as hell. It gives the impression you're faking and afraid to specify lest you be CC'd. IF you're Towm you're dead already, unless you can convince a protective to be on you, and I doubt anyone will be convinced by "I'm an investigative"
PT Cop, neighbor finder, they look the same to me because both roles are new to me.