Mini Normal 2238 | Game Over

[Almost50]

I will have to brainstorm on that. Usually PT cops see things TAs can’t.

Mailman & Friendly Neighbour don't have PTs but CAN communicate privately, so these give a positive result to a TA but negative results to a PT Cop

[Almost50]

If there is a cop,

Based on what I have gathered from my skim I very much doubt there's an Alignment Cop in play. The closest to one would probably be a Vanilla Cop (not even a Nea).

SO, I gather Titus is TA, Dragon is Mailman, Kyou is Informed, that in addition to Math, DGB, House and myself having all claimed previously. Did I miss anything?

[Almost50]

I'm a cop and Nero is town~

this is the most desperate move that someone can make but for some reason everyone believes PR claims

OK.. we need to eliminate Ythan still to verify his claim. If he's really a Cop Nero is confirmed. If Ythan flips SCUM I still doubt he clears his buddy, so Nero is confirmed.

I DO NOT BUY THE ALIGNMENT COP CLAIM. (Nothing personal, but WHY THE FREAK would ANYONE include a TRAFFIC ANALYST is the same setup with an ALIGNMENT COP? An how's that not unbalanced?)

[Almost50]

A50 for your benefit so you don't have to read

Ythan claimed cop
I am novice TA
Dragon claimed mailman.

Thanks.

[Almost50]

I'm not informed, I'm VT. I was Dragon's target last Night. I was being intentionally ambiguous because I wasn't sure if he wanted to claim yet. I was going to mention I was targeted by *an unnamed* mailman last Night, but thought DotW's snail mail crumb would be painfully obvious to any crumb hunters if I did that, so I just waited for him to claim if he wanted to.

Okie dokie. Thanks

[Almost50]

@Math: What's the alternative here? I mean, I could do me. That should at least

prove

some still thinking I could be scum must be cuckoo and should not be listened to. What other lims yield any info here?

[Almost50]

I volunteer! Go for it.

[Almost50]

How about we complete the massclaim already? Just confirm the remaining unclaimed slots are VTs

[Almost50]

VOTE: No Lim

I don't mind that either. I just want this endless day to be over and done with (but I'd still want Nero to confirm VT or not)

[Almost50]

5 all

you guys are killing me

I didn't ask. I somehow can understand you better than I can many others (not particularly others in this game)

[Almost50]

It's time for mass claim.

I thought we already did that on D2

[Almost50]

@Nero: Why are all VT claims confirmed again?

[Almost50]

Because if you jail a VT and a kill occurs, that person is conftown.

Who says? Why can't a VT claim be fake?

[Almost50]

Dragon is Town though. I say we go for the GOON. I mean, I agree with your first part that it's got to be a goon left because otherwise Math's role was designed to protect VTs and nothing more, and with a 1-shot Cop & 1-shot Rolecop I believe naming Math a Jailkeeper and not straight up Simple Doctor is very odd. I thus believe we lim in the VTs and Math goes on searching for that Goon if we miss.

VOTE: Kerset

[Almost50]

^@Titus

[Almost50]

Awesome sauce I like the vote but Andres is better but Kerset is my second choice

I kinda disagree strongly here. If it's in the VT claims it's either Kerset or Kyouko, and I TR the latter.

[Almost50]

If this is wrong I can jailkeep Andres.

I'm cool with this

[Almost50]

The last scum has to be math

THIS IS A SCUM CLAIM! THE REMAINING GOON IS TRYING TO GET RID OF THE ONE PR LEFT THAT COULD GUILTY THEM.

Kerset doesn't worry about House' check because House gets "Vanilla".

Kerset doesn't worry about Titus bc Kerset is the LAST SCUM so won't be guiltied by TA

Please sheep me on this one and you can do whatever if I miss (I won't)

[Almost50]

Or we can clear Kerset by jailing him and just win by limming DotW

DotW is bloody TOWN. I received a message from him last night with some details that I won't believe a Scum cares to mention

[Almost50]

Or we can clear Kerset by jailing him and just win by limming DotW

Ofc it is counterwagon to scum, who needs to be checked.

THIS IS DESPERATE SCUM! Like, WHO is counterwagoning whom? We ONLY HAVE ONE SCUM LEFT! Furthermore, I'm the one leading the charge here.

[Almost50]

Plus you want to lim my TR who was a counter to scum yesterday...

They were BOTH Scum. Didn't you notice Kerset never votes CSF until it was hammer? Of course Kerset did vote CSF on D1 for distancing, when there was no real danger for CSF to get eliminated. How come on D2 that vote never came until it was evidently clear CSF was going down?

[Almost50]

UNVOTE:

I dunno who is scum, but it ain't DotW

[Almost50]

You can't just say that.

I just did!

[Almost50]

you guys do realize that if im right and its a /5 setup then all Titus' plan does is kill confirmed town

Let's suppose you die because we're wrong about DotW.
Whoever Math jailed cannot be scum.
One conftown dies, another is made.

Scum then face this dilemma again.
Scum make their gamestate worse if they kill anyone but Math.

FGS!

NOBODY IS CONFIRMED BY MATH JAILING THEM ALONE. NOT EVERYONE WHO CLAIMS VT IS GUARANTEED TO BE VANILLA.

Only if ONE SCUM is left, and THAT SCUM IS A GOON does this become the case. Just because it's "likely so" doesn't mean "it

must

be so"

Like, I am not confirmed "because I was jailed last night". I am confirmed because I was jailed TWICE and there was a missing kill on N1 and a kill occurred on N2. No kill on N1 means I was either protected or I tried to kill AS A GOON. A kill occurring last night proves I could not have been "a goon who tried to kill on N1" because then I would have still been blocked on N2.

[Almost50]

Occam's Razor doesn't cut it for me when we have a BP Scum flipped with no Town killing role. One of the reviewers in "ChaosOmega", and while I dunno them I suspect the name says it all.

[Almost50]

Alien lizard men could rule our government. It's not likely true.

But it is!! (Isn't it?)

[Almost50]

I am useless at this point.. I think. I don't want to kill anyone (how anti-town behaviour that is)

[Almost50]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, DGB <3

[Almost50]

I think Math should always be sitting on me but eh

[Almost50]

@A50 - looking at the game state toDay, does my plan even make sense or add value? The only person remaining that might make sense would be 5?

I don't think it's worth the trouble anymore, but you may target 5 and ask them for their opinion too

[Almost50]

Remind me what your plan is again please?

It was in the message I received from him, so you wouldn't be privy to it

[Almost50]

How sure, exactly, are you that DotW is town?

As sure as a VT can ever be

[Almost50]

Like... without a mod-confirmation I can't be more sure

[Almost50]

OK.. sharing the plan without the code works for me..

He was mainly asking if it's worth giving each of us a code number (ex: #4 would be me) and then message the PRs with it (but wanted my feedback on who's Scum to avoid letting them in). PRs then would crumb their target using that code. That way -say- if Math died while he was supposedly blocking Kerset we know Kerset didn't do it.

The upside is Scum can't tell if Math was on them, so can't try a No-Kill gambit, nor can they avoid shooting Math's target. The downside is there's still a none-zero chance the last Scum isn't Vanilla, but has claimed to be, so Math's block isn't a guilty (but a lack of a NK is still likely an innocent check on the target)

And before anyone thinks "DotW is SCUM and wants to know who Math would be targeting to work around that" I ask you this: Why waste a night asking for a claimed VT advice before he messages Math?? And even assuming 2 Scums alive (very doubtful, but still a none-zero chance) why won't he message Titus before me?

So, the very fact that he decided to delay the plan and ask for advice from me clears him, because TODAY he still doesn't get any info, because none of the living PRs knows what number would be assigned to their target.

[Almost50]

That's what I said in 4906

[Almost50]

First: Happy Birthday to you

Second: I've laid out why it is a Town move. Wake only has his Neighborizer anility shot left. Titus can't catch Scum if only one is remaining, and DotW already has an alibi for a +ve on him. If he has malicious intentions he should have sent his PM to Mathblade if anyone. Scum want to know who Mathblade is targeting regardless of whether they're a Goon or not (If they're a Goon it doesn't really matter if Math was on them or on another VT because a NO KILL GAMBIT would have the same outcome).

If the last Scum isn't a Goon they don't even care who's targeting whom. Either way; Scum don't just come up with a plan like this and decide to PM a confirmed VT with it. Time is vital for them. They don't have much of it to waste.

[Almost50]

This game! *Sigh*

OK, I will try another approach. I will reset all my reads and pretend that I've just replaced in, do a double ISO of mod+each player one at a time, and see where that gets me

[Almost50]

First, I am doing a KERSET + Dwlee ISO. Note that I may still comment on other stuff I see on the VCs, such as this one:

Vote Count 1.01

ssbm_Kyouko (3)

- Gamma Emerald, Cat Scratch Fever, DrippingGoofball

Titus (1)

- Dragon of the West

Kerset (1)

- ssbm_Kyouko

Nero Cain (1)

- MathBlade

Mathblade (1)

- Nero Cain

Cat Scatching Fever (1)

- Titus

DrippingGoofball (1)

- House

Not voting (4)

: Wake88, Kerset, Andresvmb, Almost50

At this pont Kerset had yet to enter the game (had not posted). CSF is on kyouko. I doubt early bussing there, so I very much doubt Kyouko flips red. I also can't see TWO SCUMS on that wagon that ealr, so DGB is very likely cleared *Yes.. nothing "conclusive", but DGB & Kyouko at least earn Town points from this VC)

Its time to kill CSF

Not sure if Kerset distances from the start without giving a reason. It doesn't earn him/her anything the way he/she put it.

leave poor DBG alone you cruel animal, so many things happened

I don't if this is a pocket attempt. I mean, if Kerset is Scum it sure was, but from where I stand right now I can't tell.

539 does look like an attempt to analyze the situation. I'll give Kerset that.

Vote Count 1.05

Nero Cain (4)

- MathBlade, DrippingGoofball, House, Gamma Emerald

Gamma Emerald (3)

- Andresvmb, ssbm_Kyouko, Nero Cain

ssbm_Kyouko (1)

- Almost50

Cat Scatch Fever (1)

- Titus

Titus (1)

- Dragon of the West

Kerset (1)

- Cat Scratch Fever

Not voting (2)

: Wake88, Kerset

Again; is this distancing? Did they both decide to distance from each other with Wake inactive? Did they really want the Town to decide on it's own?

Kerset, why do you think DGB is town? Why am I scum pushing DGB?

Why would you be pushing DGB? There is no natural reason, just an excuse of claim thing.

Another "not so partenery behaviour" IMHO

Vote Count 1.10

Ythan (3)

- Andresvmb, ssbm_Kyouko, Nero Cain

Dragon of the West (3)

- Titus, House, MathBlade

Nero Cain (1)

- DrippingGoofball

Kerset (1)

- Cat Scratch Fever

ssbm_Kyouko (1)

- Almost50

MathBlade (1)

- Dragon of the West

Not voting (3)

: Wake88, Kerset, Ythan

If Kerset is Scum here it means both leading wagons were pure AND on Town. Maybe Scum didn't feel the need to intervene and decided to let Town implode on itself?

Of course, one could look from another angle and say scum was on either Ythan or DotW, which would mean Kerset is clear.

Another could argue Ythan was the Town wagon to Scum!DotW, but that begs the question: Why were all 3 Scums (including DotW himself) not voting there?

This IMHO is worth giving DotW a Town point as well.

Vote Count 1.12

Dragon of the West (E-2)

- Titus, House, MathBlade, Cat Scratch Fever, Almost50

Ythan (2)

- Andresvmb, Nero Cain

MathBlade (1)

- Dragon of the West

ssbm_Kyouko (1)

- DrippingGoofball

Titus (1)

- ssbm_Kyouko

Not voting (3)

: Wake88, Kerset, Ythan

An even more interesting VC that should clear DotW IMHO. Unless the scum strategy was "we

need

to sacrifice one of us on D1".

Dragon has just activity issues, no major reason to hunt.

And Kerset is soft defending him. Unless they're both Scum together this should clear Kesrset as well, but I'll keep on reading.

Then came this:

On other hand you got Cat, who has decent activity and doesn't care about anything that is going on. All that cat cares about is my SR.

VOTE: CSF

In what world does Scum!Kerset decide to try and defuse a wagon on Town!DotW and start one on Scum!CSF?

OK. In what world does Scum!Kerset try to save Scum!DotW by starting a wagon on on Scum!CSF?

Nero how does regular wake-house relation look like?

And setting up the other Scum too?? Kerset must be RC-level Scum if that's the case.

My generic take would be that wake and house staged an argue but those two players got a bond. It's hard to expect them to act in generic way to towards each other. Idk why do you expect that.

Again.. doesn't look like how you would treat a partner while you're voting the other while a wagon on TOWN is about to bear some fruit, and even less so if DotW is Scum with Kerset (i.e. 4 Scums). Not seeing it.

Vote Count 1.15

Dragon of the West (3)

- Titus, Cat Scratch Fever, Almost50

Titus (2)

- ssbm_Kyouko, Nero Cain

Ythan (1)

- Andresvmb

Almost50 (1)

- Wake88

MathBlade (1)

- Dragon of the West

Cat Scratch Fever (1)

- Kerset

ssbm_Kyouko (1)

- MathBlade

Nero Cain (1)

- House

Not voting (2)

: Ythan, DrippingGoofball

Vote Count 1.18

Dragon of the West (E-2)

- Titus, Cat Scratch Fever, Almost50, House, MathBlade

Titus (2)

- ssbm_Kyouko, Nero Cain

MathBlade (1)

- Ythan

Ythan (1)

- Andresvmb

Almost50 (1)

- Wake88

Cat Scratch Fever (1)

- Kerset

House (1)

- Dragon of the West

Not voting (1)

: DrippingGoofball

House and Math don't look great from these two VCs. The DotW was dissolving and the VC was flattening with CSF still wanting to get DotW, so it could be the case that another Scum decided to give that another try

Vote Count 1.19

Dragon of the West (4)

- Titus, Almost50, House, MathBlade

Titus (2)

- ssbm_Kyouko, Nero Cain

MathBlade (1)

- Ythan

Ythan (1)

- Andresvmb

Almost50 (1)

- Wake88

Cat Scratch Fever (1)

- Kerset

House (1)

- Dragon of the West

Andresvmb (1)

- DrippingGoofball

Wake88 (1)

- Cat Scratch Fever

Now here's a thing: WHy would CDF abandon the DotW wagon to start one of her partner Wake? If someone says that's similar to what Kerset did earlier (trying to defuse the wagon on DotW in favour of one on CSF) that'd be too much. Are you telling BOTH Scum (Kerset & CSF) have decided to distance from each other/Wake and let a mislim slip away?

A -much simpler- explanation is "another Scum had joined the wagon which Scum knew was flipping TOWN, so wanted only one of them on board". Either that or CSF felt Dragon's catch up looked really Town that his flip would make her look bad.

Again: DotW is TOWN anyway you slice it from this alone

Vote Count 1.22

Dragon of the West (3)

- Titus, Almost50, House

Titus (2)

- ssbm_Kyouko, DrippingGoofball

House (2)

- Dragon of the West, Nero Cain

MathBlade (1)

- Ythan

Ythan (1)

- Andresvmb

Almost50 (1)

- Wake88

Cat Scratch Fever (1)

- Kerset

Wake88 (1)

- Cat Scratch Fever

Not voting (1)

: MathBlade

If we go by a Kerset/CSF/Wake team; Wake is the only one voting a townie here. It doesn't make any sense that the Scum are avoiding all top wagons which should all be on TOWN. If we -hypothetically- assume House is Scum this VC makes much more sense.

Vote Count 1.24

Dragon of the West (2)

- Titus, Almost50

House (2)

- Dragon of the West, Nero Cain

Almost50 (2)

- Wake88, DrippingGoofball

Wake88 (2)

- Cat Scratch Fever, House

Titus (1)

- ssbm_Kyouko

MathBlade (1)

- Ythan

Cat Scratch Fever (1)

- Kerset

Nero Cain (1)

- Andresvmb

Not voting (1)

: MathBlade

And here, it does make that the 2 scums are on their 3rd who has not been doing good at all. It also explains why Wake was pissed.

Vote Count 1.26

Almost50 (4)

- Wake88, DrippingGoofball, ssbm_Kyouko, MathBlade

Wake88 (3)

- Cat Scratch Fever, House, Titus

House (2)

- Dragon of the West, Nero Cain

Dragon of the West (1)

- Almost50

MathBlade (1)

- Ythan

Cat Scratch Fever (1)

- Kerset

Nero Cain (1)

- Andresvmb

Not voting (0)

:

Math choosing me over Wake doesn't look good either. I'd have to check if that was before or after my "Watcher crumb" when I do Math's ISO

Are you still focused on an Andre lynch or no?

Yea

Vote Count 1.30

Andresvmb (4)

- Kerset, House, DrippingGoofball, Wake88

Wake88 (3)

- Titus, Almost50, MathBlade

House (3)

- Dragon of the West, Nero Cain, ssbm_Kyouko

MathBlade (1)

- Ythan

Nero Cain (1)

- Andresvmb

Kerset (1)

- Cat Scratch Fever

Not voting (0)

:

Why does Wake vote Andres here? Because Andres is TOWN! (It doesn't mean House must be Scum here, but just that Andres is TOWN).

ALSO, ANDRE IS TOWN BECAUSE OF [ONGOING]

and I'm 100% sure of it (as sure as if it was mod confirmed)

Vote Count 1.31

House (4)

- Dragon of the West, ssbm_Kyouko, MathBlade, Nero Cain

Andresvmb (3)

- Kerset, DrippingGoofball, Wake88

Wake88 (2)

- Titus, Almost50

MathBlade (1)

- Ythan

Nero Cain (1)

- Andresvmb

Catch Scratch Fever (1)

- House

Not voting (1)

: Cat Scratch Fever

Now this one is confusing even to my moon!logic. Assuming HOUSE/Wake/CSF Scum team, what are they doing exactly? Did House fear he was going to flip and decide to distance?? I mean, it doesn't work that way, does it?

Case in point:

I claim Town JoaT: 1x Neighborizer, 1x Jailkeeper, 1x Watcher

It's not true, but chances of counter are crazy slim.

so first this fakeclaim,
the actual one had Rolecop instead of Watcher

THIS! This, ladies and gentlemen. It made me interrupt my ISO of Kerset and go back to HOUSE' claim advancement. He started with JK & Watcher and ended up with RB & Rolecop instead.

Check this out:

Case in point:

I claim Town JoaT: 1x Neighborizer,

1x Jailkeeper

,

1x Watcher

It's not true, but chances of counter are crazy slim.

Thinks look hard (they’re not) ==> simple
Keep things in perspective ==>

jailkeeper

I feel like mechanically Math and House will sort themselves out. There's no way this is theatre so I'mma big dip on this
VOTE: Wake
Still down for Titus, Ythan, A50, but Wake actually has a wagon.

Less down for A50 because of the Watcher softs

. Now that we have 2 claims out I think it's good to voice this now rather than waiting until toMorrow which was originally what I'd planned. I think making sure that town!Math and town!House and the scumteam aware of the softs is good now because if all 3 are town it's going to make it difficult for scum to choose correctly.

House, why didn't we have a party? You said you wanted to get a shiny neighborhood with me.

Since I was outed, I figured I'd likely be the n1 kill so I targeted DGB in an effort to survive.

Wait, what's your claim? It's not roleblocker?

JoaT

Neighborizer

Complex Roleblocker

Lazy Rolecop

Add to this his alleged confusion between the RB & RC modifiers and you just know this was a fake claim from the very beginning. Here:

Hey House, how did you cop DGB when you're lazy?

Hey House, how did you cop DGB when you're lazy?

I had my modifiers backwards, lol.

Double-checked last night.

It doesn't make sense for House to double check only on N3 after he had been pushing for a SGB lim all day on D2 based on his choice to Roleblock a claimed Neighbor over using his Rolecop on Someone else. That's way too may "brain farts" in one lousy claim to be considered genuine.

I don't need to ISO anyone else at this time. HOUSE IS THE LAST SCUM

VOTE: House

[Almost50]

Geez! I should have spoilered this (or even better, just posted the last part as it is the main case now. Everything above is irrelevant because it's self-evident if we flip House today.

[Almost50]

Again.. blame it on me if this isn't the correct lim if the day/game

[Almost50]

Can you read??

[Almost50]

Good. Cuz I'm not eliminating a VT. They're ALL TOWN.

[Almost50]

To you, maybe. To me, 5 VTs is a good bet.

[Almost50]

Quick rare (read : uncooked) case for Town Kyouko:

Nero House DGB town I think is where I'm at as of catch-up completion

If we're looking for the last Scum alive, where's the rule of 3?

Also, why out my "crumb as a Watcher" in public when she had a SCUM PT to share with?

Kerset I did a long ass post detailing why s/he isn't Scum.

Andres is 100% Town because ONGOING

Nero & I are confirmed

That's the 5 VTs. ALL TOWN

Now I dunno if the last Scum is a PR or a Goon FAKING PR to escape your Simple Jailer thing. If they're faking it's either House or Titus, because You & DGB confirm each other and I confirm DotW, so 3 confirmed PRs (not alignments. Just that you 3 are not Goons)

I TR Titus and I even made my case on House.

Just because you want to eliminate a VT doesn't mean you're right and/or we're going to sheep you. If we sheeped you on Wake or CSF they'd both have been still alive.

So, please stop "thinking" because everything you think is plain wrong. The fact that you don't think all VT claimants are Town is evidence enough for me they are all Town. Thank you.

[Almost50]

GG all

Thanks for modding; Dwlee

Notes: Math

was indeed

a Simple DOCTOR with a different name. CSF had a BP for no reason at all.

[Almost50]

And the BP??