Mini Normal 2242 | Opossum Mafia | Game Over!

[Three]

VOTE: redtea

[Three]

quirkiness is towny for an average by-the-book player but for someone like me if im forcing a joke too hard it means im scum, very simple

hawaiian pizza kinda sus ngl
scumread by the entirety of reddit

VOTE: Osetr

[Three]

Also, frankly rude to tell someone new not to play again.

Anyone, for that matter

New or not.

His content is disturbing and disrespectful towards basically everyone here who's actually trying to play the game. I wouldn't say it if he was intentionally going out of his way to break the rules.

MU stopped using l-word (i think) so yeah, this makes sense.

no it depends on the host, some dont care some go liberal mode and disallow it

Yikes.

[Three]

VOTE: redtea

That's E-2.

[Three]

Let redtea at least claim first.

[Three]

Eghhhh
I kind of see where jacket is coming from with fua obv scum though

How so?

[Three]

Complex Vig means redtea can only shoot PRs, right?

[Three]

Ok. Then if we believe cookie and redtea, that means redtea is also effectively a pseudo cop. The scum team never has Goons in a 2 Mafia + Traitor scenario, so a failed kill should be considered a clear. Redtea can also verify VT claims if any get run up to E-1.

PE:

If this is a fake claim it'd be super easy to just say that they must have shot a VT. Especially if scum have a role cop or something like that. Or just guess that someone is a VT and then a PR has to be outed for us to lim redtea. We can give it a night but I don't wholesale believe it

Cya tomorrow

That's a fair point. It's a weird fake claim though if so.

[Three]

VOTE: T3

[Three]

The scum team never has Goons in a 2 Mafia + Traitor scenario, so a failed kill should be considered a clear.

I think making assumptions about setup composition based on what you think is balanced is a very bad idea.

Cool

[Three]

Redtea can't shoot goons, either.

They're considered vanilla scum.

A complex vig effectively makes a goon a PR.

I'm a little confused here.

[Three]

Ooooooh
Would 1 goon, 1 pr, and 1 traitor pr be balanced

That's my guess.

It would effectively make your role borderline negative utility.

Redtea can't shoot goons, either.

They're considered vanilla scum.

A complex vig effectively makes a goon a PR.

I'm a little confused here.

Quote the whole post.

That should erase your confusion.

Or...explain your point.

[Three]

Ooooooh
Would 1 goon, 1 pr, and 1 traitor pr be balanced

That's my guess.

It would effectively make your role borderline negative utility.

This is where I'm at.

If people genuinely believe that we have a Vig that can only kill minimum zero/maximum one scum that otherwise only kills town PRs, why exactly is this slot still breathing if some people don't even believe the claim?

[Three]

Ooooooh
Would 1 goon, 1 pr, and 1 traitor pr be balanced

That's my guess.

It would effectively make your role borderline negative utility.

This is where I'm at.

If people genuinely believe that we have a Vig that can only kill minimum zero/maximum one scum that otherwise only kills town PRs, why exactly is this slot still breathing if some people don't even believe the claim?

Especially if redtea can apparently gets false innocent results on Goons?

[Three]

I don't see how a false inno on a Goon effectively makes a Goon a PR if redtea can't shoot Goons but can shoot PRs.

[Three]

I don't see how a false inno on a Goon effectively makes a Goon a PR if redtea can't shoot Goons but can shoot PRs.

I'd say immunity to a PR's action and the potential to mislead town with a false Inno is pretty powerful.

Sigh. You're just arguing semantics then. And not even particularly useful semantics.

[Three]

Ooooooh
Would 1 goon, 1 pr, and 1 traitor pr be balanced

That's my guess.

It would effectively make your role borderline negative utility.

This is where I'm at.

If people genuinely believe that we have a Vig that can only kill minimum zero/maximum one scum that otherwise only kills town PRs, why exactly is this slot still breathing if some people don't even believe the claim?

jeez rude, I'm still a member of town and that has value.

Ooooooh
Would 1 goon, 1 pr, and 1 traitor pr be balanced

That's my guess.

It would effectively make your role borderline negative utility.

true. Does that point two 2 mafia prs then not counting the traitor, assuming the mod didn't have some odd idea then? And assuming I'm town ofc.

This was exactly my reasoning a few posts ago.

i'll post my queer flag collection asdkjfnladsknf would that clear me

Queer townbloc sounds good to me.

[Three]

I don't see how a false inno on a Goon effectively makes a Goon a PR if redtea can't shoot Goons but can shoot PRs.

I'd say immunity to a PR's action and the potential to mislead town with a false Inno is pretty powerful.

Sigh. You're just arguing semantics then. And not even particularly useful semantics.

I'm arguing UTILITY.

Staying to think you're not really misunderstanding me.

This shit is getting pretty blatant.

Please take a second to breathe. This is the first time you mentioned utility, you specifically said PR before this. I don't really care about winning a semantics argument, especially since we're apparently on the same page anyway. So maybe drop this pointless back and forth.

[Three]

I think three made the point that my role is borderline negative-utility

I did.

Three echoed.

Why are you so tilted?

[Three]

this is ridiculous
if this isn't tvt i'll eat this delicious brownie
does scum go this hard over mechanics

It's TvT and I'm annoyed.

[Three]

i'm ambivalent about the claim. an outted traitor doesn't serve much purpose for mafia, so there isn't anything we particularly lose by giving redtea a night to prove the claim. gut is i don't buy it though

Eghhhh
I kind of see where jacket is coming from with fua obv scum though

How so?

Fua's vote on george gut pinged me as really terrible.

I see.

VOTE: Fua

[Three]

VOTE: GeorgeBailey

Sure, I'll buy this and put some pressure here. I think trying to be quirky is weird too.

On reread, this does come off as really forced.

PE: Hoo boy.

[Three]

Fua, do you really believe I'm the only player in this game who insisted we shoot redtea?

[Three]

Fua, do you really believe I'm the only player in this game who insisted we shoot redtea?

Following the claim? You’ve definitely been the most insistent on it.

Show me.

[Three]

Ooooooh
Would 1 goon, 1 pr, and 1 traitor pr be balanced

That's my guess.

It would effectively make your role borderline negative utility.

This is where I'm at.

If people genuinely believe that we have a Vig that can only kill minimum zero/maximum one scum that otherwise only kills town PRs, why exactly is this slot still breathing if some people don't even believe the claim?

Questioning why a slot isn't dead =/= I want the slot.

But I'm sure you know you're reaching here.

[Three]

I think that post comes off as really insistent on ending the day early and voting out someone who claimed a PR before they have the chance to actually prove themselves. Beyond that you’ve really just been posting one-liners and arguing semantics with House.

One-liners are NAI.

I didn't argue semantics and in fact cut our conversation short when I saw it wasn't going anywhere.

[Three]

Yes it does.

Unfortunately for you, you're wrong.

It does ON DAY ONE.

Still tilted?

[Three]

"if peoppe genuinely believe" is what struck me

Exactly. I'm the one who suggested this was a zero Goon game in the first place.

Fua and House claiming that I want you dead after my set up speculation suggested how important you are just feels like mental gymnastics at this point.

[Three]

Fua, do you really believe I'm the only player in this game who insisted we shoot redtea?

I feel like Three’s own claim that he didn’t want redtea to die is a walkback from this post after I said that he was the one pushing for redtea to die the most.

I didn't walk back anything. I voted redtea then moved my vote. You seem to be under the impression I can place six votes on someone though.

[Three]

If this is a fake claim it'd be super easy to just say that they must have shot a VT. Especially if scum have a role cop or something like that. Or just guess that someone is a VT and then a PR has to be outed for us to lim redtea. We can give it a night but I don't wholesale believe it

Cya tomorrow

Interesting that this shade from Dwlee didn't ping Fua.

[Three]

I don't think House is scum either. He's just mad.

[Three]

Hope you feel better. Sorry if I annoyed you.

[Three]

Dwlee

[Three]

No.

[Three]

do the people that found oster scummy have opinions about dwlee

I voted Osetr because I didn't like them and because they would be a liability in ELo.

Dwlee so far is not that but also not much else either.

[Three]

because it was a random vote

Oh, I thought it was serious. I think three has been scummy

This is probably town since I'd expect scum to give an actual reason for their fake scum read.

[Three]

I don't trust meta reads that aren't accompanied by a five page single space size 12 Times New Roman essay with at least three credible sources.

[Three]

don't tell him that was actually a pretty terrible take on osetr.

As it isn't true, I won't tell him that.

I feel like voting for someone on Day 1 because we won’t be able to rely on them at the end of the game

is

really flimsy reasoning, to be honest. I definitely agree that he deserved to be limmed if he wasn’t replaced because I don’t tolerate that behavior on this site, but that post from Three feels like he’s trying to justify his vote a little bit too much.

I'm pretty sure we have similar reasoning and justifications for our votes on Osetr.

[Three]

don't tell him that was actually a pretty terrible take on osetr.

As it isn't true, I won't tell him that.

I feel like voting for someone on Day 1 because we won’t be able to rely on them at the end of the game

is

really flimsy reasoning, to be honest. I definitely agree that he deserved to be limmed if he wasn’t replaced because I don’t tolerate that behavior on this site, but that post from Three feels like he’s trying to justify his vote a little bit too much.

Actually. @Three I’m seriously suspicious of you, but I’m willing to give you the benefit of the doubt here if you’re willing to do the same with me. It’s in both of our best interests to work on a compromise for today— in case you are town, then scum is obviously going to look to keep our wagons as the main focuses so that the spotlight isn’t turned on them. Both of us

do

give out a lot of content that could be useful to find each other later, so why don’t we let each other keep talking and try to reach a conclusion on something else?

TL;DR: You trust me and take your vote off me, I’ll trust you and take my vote off you.

I don't think scum tries to call a truce with an opposing wagon, so sure, I'll trust you for now.

UNVOTE:

[Three]

If we're calling a truce then I need a new target, and I don't want to vote cookie. We've got three people who basically aren't playing, and the game state doesn't feel like it's had much scum influence, so I think we'd have a good chance hitting scum there. Between George/Zen/A50, I feel least good about George due to their awkward RVS posts. Zen's posts are whatever, and Wake/A50 never posted so I have nothing there. Maybe Wake dropped because they didn't want to play scum?

Otherwise, as far as our active posters go, any that are scum are likely just playing very safe/muted. Assuming the treaty with Fua is pure, I think cookie and redtea are telling the truth and are town. I feel good about House and Dwlee as well.

Which leaves Jacket/STD/T3/Pizza for basically my null reads. T3 is insistent STD is town though, so I could believe it if he gave a compelling enough reason.

For now I'm fine with voting George.

VOTE: George

PE: I could do a Jacket vote as well.

[Three]

If we're calling a truce then I need a new target, and I don't want to vote cookie. We've got three people who basically aren't playing, and the game state doesn't feel like it's had much scum influence, so I think we'd have a good chance hitting scum there. Between George/Zen/A50, I feel least good about George due to their awkward RVS posts. Zen's posts are whatever, and Wake/A50 never posted so I have nothing there. Maybe Wake dropped because they didn't want to play scum?

Otherwise, as far as our active posters go, any that are scum are likely just playing very safe/muted. Assuming the treaty with Fua is pure, I think cookie and redtea are telling the truth and are town. I feel good about House and Dwlee as well.

Which leaves Jacket/STD/T3/Pizza for basically my null reads. T3 is insistent STD is town though, so I could believe it if he gave a compelling enough reason.

For now I'm fine with voting George.

VOTE: George

PE: I could do a Jacket vote as well.

VOTE: Three
explain reads on house/dwlee/fua (other than that treaty)

House is town because we TvT'd earlier.

Dwlee is town because they literally weren't doing anything besides shading people, at least at the time I initially town read them.

Fua isn't a town read.

[Three]

In case it isn't clear, I don't think scum actively try to do scummy things Day 1. This is the only Day where you can feasibly get somebody voted out for looking at you weird, so why the hell would scum blatantly try to look scummy right now?

[Three]

I'm struggling to believe Dwlee's scum read on me is real at this point. They think it's scummy that I town read them despite getting scum read by them, but if OMGUS scum read them back I'm certain that I wouldn't get town read for that. I don't get why you're so set on miseliminating me since it seems like you are going to scum read me no matter what I say or do.

[Three]

Beginning of ISO: doesn't say much. Doesn't interact much. First time involved in actual conversation happens to be when the mech convo with the traitor stuff comes up. Since then, not much to impress me except maybe the truce thing from y'all but I feel like I shouldn't put a ton of stock into it. The townread on me kinda feels like he knows it's true which is why he believes it cause Occam's is just scummy -> scum and I don't think he has played with me to know my playstyle just kinda is this. I think people new to my playstyle tend to scumread me naturally so it's kind of weird for him to actually townread me for thinking I look scummy

Pretty sure this is Dwlee99 who posted this.

[Three]

I'd prefer if you just admitted you're death tunneling me, because because despite every single one of your concerns being addressed, you still scum read me.

[Three]

Alternatively, we could play Mafia and have a discussion instead.

[Three]

I'd prefer if you just admitted you're death tunneling me,

because despite every single one of your concerns being addressed

, you still scum read me.

See, Dwlee, I read what you wrote. Your other concerns already got talked about and dealt with, which I mention here. So what problem do you have exactly, that hasn't already been refuted?

[Three]

I'd prefer if you just admitted you're death tunneling me,

because despite every single one of your concerns being addressed

, you still scum read me.

See, Dwlee, I read what you wrote. Your other concerns already got talked about and dealt with, which I mention here. So what problem do you have exactly, that hasn't already been refuted?

How was my point about your entrance being empty until mech discussion "refuted?" You townreading me despite thinking I'm scummy has been given an explanation (but not really from you) but not debunked, and now you're angling to flip your read on me by framing me as unreasonable for scumreading you here. What should I be townreading from you?

My entrance was "empty" because it was RVS. I thought that was self-explanatory.

I never said you should town read me either. This isn't a game of absolutes. I'm saying your push on me doesn't feel real because at this point your only real reason to scum read me is that you didn't like my posts during RVS.

Also I don't have to know you to judge your playstyle. That feels like such a weirdly meta argument to make that I can only town read you off playstyle if I've played with you before.

[Three]

I don't think Dwlee is scum.

[Three]

We have two days left, we need to consolidate some votes.

[Three]

@redtea and @cookie:

If you had to pick someone else to vote besides each other, who would it be?

[Three]

I don't think Dwlee is scum.

I'm struggling to believe Dwlee's scum read on me is real at this point. They think it's scummy that I town read them despite getting scum read by them, but if OMGUS scum read them back I'm certain that I wouldn't get town read for that. I don't get why you're so set on miseliminating me since it seems like you are going to scum read me no matter what I say or do.

Seems like you were were implying it by suggesting their scumread on you didn't seem "real".

Somebody can tunnel and still be town.

[Three]

I don't know what that puts me at, but I assume we're wagoning me despite there being no legitimate case at this point. Real fun wasting my week on this game just to get miseliminated but whatever.

I'm VT.

[Three]

I don't know what that puts me at, but I assume we're wagoning me despite there being no legitimate case at this point. Real fun wasting my week on this game just to get miseliminated but whatever.

I'm VT.

alas that's often the way in mafia - the games where you put most effort in are the ones you get limmed early. that said, maybe a slightly premature claim at like 4 votes with emotional appeal to boot.

Yeah yeah AtE whatever, getting annoyed at getting eliminated Day 1 when you effort is NAI either way. I genuinely thought I was closer than E-3 though since last I checked I had three votes and I thought I saw three more come my way.

I would offer to just get shot by redtea to prove I'm VT, but I understand it could just mean I'm the BP Traitor, and even though I think redtea is telling the truth I understand that not everyone believes them either.

[Three]

Alright I give up on Hawaiian.


Unranked:
redtea


Town:
Jacket
House
Dwlee
fua
Almost50


Null:

T3
Three
Save The Dragons
cool cookie

HawaiianPizza

Scum:

TheZenMan



-RedTea. While I agree with Jacket 370 that RedTea's claimed felt very convenient, I think it's best to give it one night to see what happens. I also think RedTea acted pretty good under pressure

-Cookie being leading wagon is pretty interesting. Informed holding off info isn't really that scummy if it's info on another PR or something that could harm town. So I don't scumread cookie. Nothing faer have posted seems townie though. If Cookie flips green, scum is 100% on this wagon.

- Jacket and Fua gave me early townread vibes. I find myself agreeing to a lot of Jacket's reads. Still trying to find a way to make a "literally me" joke. Fua from their interactions with DwLee.

- Dwlee gave me lax town vibes early. Although the activity reads against a50 that are reachy which is why they're my weakest townread. And offering the hammer to other people for RedTea felt kinda scummy too.

- Almost50's catch up posts were pretty good. Although I really don't see the Jacket scumread. The defense against Dwlee in 929 was towny. His claim also feels the most believable, as I think it's riskier for scum to claim after 2 claims already.

-T3 has sooo much content and stuff feels towny but I don't feel comfortable townleaning him.. 417 Gives me townie vibes but the push on Jacket makes no sense to me.

- House is an epic top town read. Idk if he's in my pocket, or he just reads naturally townie. But I haven't been pinged by any of his posts.

- STD is Null. A lot of naked votes with not a lot of elaboration.

-Zen's recent shade on me feels like a misrep. Like, I was mad at being lumped in with both of you cause you/a50 had 2 and 0 posts. I also said I was scumreading three and townreading Jacket early on.

- I don't understand the townread on Hawaiian.

- Three: at the time I voted three he had three posts. Which was pretty cool. I was secretly hoping it was a gimmick account that made 3 posts a day or something. I initially scumread him because of the lack of anything +, bringing redtea to e-2. But I think his defense has been pretty solid recently, and my vote on him has very much overstayed it's welcome.


VOTE: Zenman

If Zen flips scum then the other scum was on the redtea wagon. I feel like scum would hop on a potential mis-elim wagon with their scum partner MIA for the first day or so.

Vote Count 1.02

redtea (6):

HawaiianPizza, cool cookie, House, redtea, Three, fua

(E-1)

So just one scumread and the other are all null/town? No one sees anything suspicious about this? The guy he goes for is also someone already scumreading him, so he loses nothing by putting me at the bottom there. I feel George is trying to stay on as many peoples good sides as possible.

I do have my vote there, STD did as well but he unvoted. I doubt it's happening at this point.

[Three]

I wouldn't say I'm emotionally invested, I'm just annoyed that I think I've defended myself well but it seems to keep getting ignored. A lot of naked votes keep coming my way, so I'm not exactly sure what I can do here, because if I argue against those naked votes it's just going to look like shade/OMGUS even though they're pretty objectively bad votes.

[Three]

(george stuff)

Vote Count 1.02

redtea (6):

HawaiianPizza, cool cookie, House, redtea, Three, fua

(E-1)

So just one scumread and the other are all null/town? No one sees anything suspicious about this? The guy he goes for is also someone already scumreading him, so he loses nothing by putting me at the bottom there. I feel George is trying to stay on as many peoples good sides as possible.

I do have my vote there, STD did as well but he unvoted. I doubt it's happening at this point.

I don't know what that puts me at, but I assume we're wagoning me despite there being no legitimate case at this point. Real fun wasting my week on this game just to get miseliminated but whatever.

I'm VT.

alas that's often the way in mafia - the games where you put most effort in are the ones you get limmed early. that said, maybe a slightly premature claim at like 4 votes with emotional appeal to boot.

Yeah yeah AtE whatever, getting annoyed at getting eliminated Day 1 when you effort is NAI either way. I genuinely thought I was closer than E-3 though since last I checked I had three votes and I thought I saw three more come my way.

I would offer to just get shot by redtea to prove I'm VT, but I understand it could just mean I'm the BP Traitor, and even though I think redtea is telling the truth I understand that not everyone believes them either.

I think you are getting a bit too emotionally invested in the game. Remember it's just a game at the end of the day.

I looked for a bit but still didn't see a case made on you. Your reaction however for me reads as town.

Partners?

Maybe if PT daytalk wasn't enabled.

Three rn but I'm supposed to "stop tunneling" and "do something else" smh

I mean, you'd have to be extremely confident that I'm scum for this to be a viable line of thought. I'm just not sure what you plan to do when I flip green since you haven't done anything else all game except tunnel me. Point being that you'll look awful Day 2 with my green flip, and seeing as I'm one of the few people actively defending and town reading you, you're going to be an easy target going forward.

This is another reason I town read you too, you're being way too short-sighted to be scum. Like there's really no reason not to vote you Day 2 once I flip green so I have no idea why you would play like this as scum. But if I'm wrong about my read on you I guess this works out.

What exactly do you plan to do tomorrow when I flip green?

[Three]

@T3:

Are you ever going to explain your meta reads? Because at some point or another you're going to get accused of TMI if you don't.

[Three]

I don't know what that puts me at, but I assume we're wagoning me despite there being no legitimate case at this point. Real fun wasting my week on this game just to get miseliminated but whatever.

I'm VT.

alas that's often the way in mafia - the games where you put most effort in are the ones you get limmed early. that said, maybe a slightly premature claim at like 4 votes with emotional appeal to boot.

Yeah yeah AtE whatever, getting annoyed at getting eliminated Day 1 when you effort is NAI either way. I genuinely thought I was closer than E-3 though since last I checked I had three votes and I thought I saw three more come my way.

I would offer to just get shot by redtea to prove I'm VT, but I understand it could just mean I'm the BP Traitor, and even though I think redtea is telling the truth I understand that not everyone believes them either.

I both like and hate this reaction.

This is a zero calorie statement.

[Three]

I mean, you'd have to be extremely confident that I'm scum for this to be a viable line of thought. I'm just not sure what you plan to do when I flip green since you haven't done anything else all game except tunnel me. Point being that you'll look awful Day 2 with my green flip, and seeing as I'm one of the few people actively defending and town reading you, you're going to be an easy target going forward.

This is another reason I town read you too, you're being way too short-sighted to be scum. Like there's really no reason not to vote you Day 2 once I flip green so I have no idea why you would play like this as scum. But if I'm wrong about my read on you I guess this works out.

What exactly do you plan to do tomorrow when I flip green?

If you flipped town I'd either keep going through my poe or reeval depending on NK. I don't like that you say I haven't done anything other than tunnel you because I've been narrowing down my poe and I feel like that's more important than catching scum immediately

Do you have a name? You've PoE'd around six people but you haven't really interacted with any of them.

[Three]

@T3:

Are you ever going to explain your meta reads? Because at some point or another you're going to get accused of TMI if you don't.

No

VOTE: T3

[Three]

@three do you think you'll stick with that t3 vote til the end? I'll join you if you really won't vote fua with me.

I don't think Fua is a good vote today. I think today's flip will be help figure out their alignment, they've interacted with a lot of people and the post-flip associations will be telling. If signs point to Fua being scum Day 2 and I'm still around, then I'd be willing to follow you on that vote.

Besides Fua, do you think there's a better elimination than T3? Because I'm not completely set on my vote.

[Three]

I don't really understand Fua's town read on T3 but I'm assuming it's meta that I don't know about. Being Neighbors with A50 doesn't even mean either are conftown unless there were Night 0 Loyal Neighborizer shenanigans, which I seriously doubt happened.

[Three]

@three do you think you'll stick with that t3 vote til the end? I'll join you if you really won't vote fua with me.

I don't think Fua is a good vote today. I think today's flip will be help figure out their alignment, they've interacted with a lot of people and the post-flip associations will be telling. If signs point to Fua being scum Day 2 and I'm still around, then I'd be willing to follow you on that vote.

Besides Fua, do you think there's a better elimination than T3? Because I'm not completely set on my vote.

nooooo

Sorry, I just have a gut feeling. I could be completely wrong about my gut feeling on Fua, and maybe even wrong about my town read on Dwlee, but if either or both are scum I don't think they're in a good enough spot to survive for long.

I don't really understand Fua's town read on T3 but I'm assuming it's meta that I don't know about. Being Neighbors with A50 doesn't even mean either are conftown unless there were Night 0 Loyal Neighborizer shenanigans, which I seriously doubt happened.

Fua's join date is September 24, 2021.
Did they say they've played together on another site?

this is their first game here even unless it's an alt

Possibly an alt but I don't want to alt fish.

[Three]

@T3:

Are you ever going to explain your meta reads? Because at some point or another you're going to get accused of TMI if you don't.

No

VOTE: T3

Dude
What
Why is that scummy

You don't think it's scummy to read people based on meta but then not explain what the meta is? If you're scum it's just TMI that you already know who's town and who's scum. If you're town, we have no idea what you're thinking or how accurate your meta reads actually are.

With STD for instance, you say he's town because of meta. When asked if it's something he did, you answer it's because of something he didn't do. That means nothing to anyone who doesn't know what you're talking about and could easily just come from scum since you don't have to justify that read.

17 hours
I hardclaim investigative
Unvote

Sigh.

What investigative?

[Three]

@T3:

Are you ever going to explain your meta reads? Because at some point or another you're going to get accused of TMI if you don't.

No

VOTE: T3

Dude
What
Why is that scummy

You don't think it's scummy to read people based on meta but then not explain what the meta is? If you're scum it's just TMI that you already know who's town and who's scum. If you're town, we have no idea what you're thinking or how accurate your meta reads actually are.

With STD for instance, you say he's town because of meta. When asked if it's something he did, you answer it's because of something he didn't do. That means nothing to anyone who doesn't know what you're talking about and could easily just come from scum since you don't have to justify that read.

17 hours
I hardclaim investigative
Unvote

Sigh.

What investigative?

I don't want to elaborate because it only benefits scum
Please trust me

Scum me almost never ever fakes reads and when I do it's almost always obvious

I'm not accusing you of faking reads, I'm accusing you of TMI.

It's hard to trust your claim because by all means, if you're town, you're most likely going to get night killed. With all the supposed Bulletproofs in the game it seems unlikely a protective role exists. So if you die tonight you'll flip and we learn your role anyway, or worse you potentially get role blocked and scum kills someone else to make you WIFOM bait.

Besides that, if we do trust you, who exactly do we vote? Because you were voting for me and I don't exactly want to get miseliminated.

[Three]

let's just fuckin' mass claim at this point

/s

There really have been a staggering amount of partial and full claims this game.

[Three]

@T3:

Are you ever going to explain your meta reads? Because at some point or another you're going to get accused of TMI if you don't.

No

VOTE: T3

Dude
What
Why is that scummy

You don't think it's scummy to read people based on meta but then not explain what the meta is? If you're scum it's just TMI that you already know who's town and who's scum. If you're town, we have no idea what you're thinking or how accurate your meta reads actually are.

With STD for instance, you say he's town because of meta. When asked if it's something he did, you answer it's because of something he didn't do. That means nothing to anyone who doesn't know what you're talking about and could easily just come from scum since you don't have to justify that read.

17 hours
I hardclaim investigative
Unvote

Sigh.

What investigative?

I don't want to elaborate because it only benefits scum
Please trust me

Scum me almost never ever fakes reads and when I do it's almost always obvious

I'm not accusing you of faking reads, I'm accusing you of TMI.

It's hard to trust your claim because by all means, if you're town, you're most likely going to get night killed. With all the supposed Bulletproofs in the game it seems unlikely a protective role exists. So if you die tonight you'll flip and we learn your role anyway, or worse you potentially get role blocked and scum kills someone else to make you WIFOM bait.

Besides that, if we do trust you, who exactly do we vote? Because you were voting for me and I don't exactly want to get miseliminated.

Maybe Zen or jacket

Why?

[Three]

@T3: I dunno if you're Town or Scum, but delaying your full claim any further is scummy as hell. It gives the impression you're faking and afraid to specify lest you be CC'd. IF you're Towm you're dead already, unless you can convince a protective to be on you, and I doubt anyone will be convinced by "I'm an investigative"

Odd Night Traffic Analyst Even Night Neighbor Finder

On Odd Nights I can check if someone is able to communicate with someone else, then on Even Nights I can check to see if someone is a Neighbor.

This strongly implies that there is
1. a traitor
2. a neighbor
That's why I was very quick to believe cookie and A50's claims, + the fact that the tells exist.

That...is a very odd role. Why does town need to find Neighbors? Either way I don't see how this tips scum off. Also why does it imply there's a Traitor? I don't think Traitors communicate with scum unless there's some kind of recruitment mechanic in play. So they shouldn't have day or night talk unless they're a Neighbor, though A50 strongly believes Zen is town and A50 himself is a consensus town read.

Assuming the strategy here is to scum hunt odd nights and confirm Neighbors even nights, you'll most likely be blocked tonight and we'll be essentially powerless. There would be too many town PRs if others existed otherwise, unless we have some fake claims.

Should we organize what everyone is doing? I'd be fine with redtea shooting me two nights in a row to confirm I'm not the Bulletproof Traitor. T3 could also target me to confirm I don't have night talk. We could argue just this means scum shoots me to "waste" their night actions but uhhhh if scum want to kill a scum read VT they're more than free to do so. And if a role block happens, well we won't be in any worse of a situation.

[Three]

Night 2 he should check one of the claimed Neighbors then.

[Three]

UNVOTE:

I understand the town case for T3, or at least why he shouldn't be today's vote. I think his reads are weird and the lack of explanations for them are weirder, but fine.

T3 is adamant about STD being town.

A50 is a town read and is vouching for Zen.

Cookie and redtea are off the table today as well.

I have a truce with Fua and I think Dwlee is town.

This leaves George, Pizza, House, Jacket, and myself. I originally had House as town but I feel like he's faded ever since I claimed we were TvT.

What are we doing here?

[Three]

Actually I take back what I said about House, his ISO isn't bad at all. We're just on page 53 on Day 1.

PE: That's fair about the activity drop, it's the same with me with my work schedule.

[Three]

VOTE: george

I guess we're back to this.

VOTE: George

[Three]

VOTE: george

I guess we're back to this.

VOTE: George

Is there a case on him?

Too many vouches and town reads for everyone else + his ISO isn't particularly good. There isn't much content and his reads list had exactly one scum read, and it was Zen. I can understand having a hard time scum reading people since no one's come off as overtly scummy, but it could also be that he's afraid to accuse anyone.

[Three]

UNVOTE:

I understand the town case for T3, or at least why he shouldn't be today's vote. I think his reads are weird and the lack of explanations for them are weirder, but fine.

T3 is adamant about STD being town.

A50 is a town read and is vouching for Zen.

Cookie and redtea are off the table today as well.

I have a truce with Fua and I think Dwlee is town.

This leaves George, Pizza, House, Jacket, and myself. I originally had House as town but I feel like he's faded ever since I claimed we were TvT.

What are we doing here?

My reads are unexplained.... like I get a gut reaction to a post when something feels off and it usually can be expressed in traditional mafia terms but idk what those are.

Do you have any bad gut feelings from people I put in the no lim zone? I know redtea disagrees with me about Fua and Dwlee.

[Three]

If Bogdan doesn't count it should be E-2.

[Three]

Told you this would happen Dwlee.

[Three]

Aaaaaaaa

I fucking knew it. That's why I took your truce so easily. You shouldn't have said anything.

[Three]

So, T3...result?

I will

not

out my result today.

Why? Didn't you check me?

[Three]

can someone please do a quick summary of claims for me? i need to catch up on the end of last day, and beginning of this - but likely wont be until tomorrow.

You claimed Informed town.

Redtea claimed Complex Vig.

T3 claimed Odd Night Traffic Analyst Even Night Neighbor Finder.

A50 claimed Bulletproof Neighbor.

Zen claimed to be a Neighbor with A50.

Fua soft claimed a PR but never actually claimed.

I claimed VT.

[Three]

...Are we all getting the same sinking feeling here, or is it just me?

[Three]

I don't know what any of this means. I don't understand why you can't just tell us if you have a guilty.

[Three]

I might. I might not. Either way, cookie knows my result. So if one of us dies the other person will know to potentially box scum into a corner later.

This is getting really dumb. It's no secret that I asked you and redtea to target me last night so that I could get cleared from both being scum and traitor. I know I'm neither, but the entire point was to get everyone to decide if I'm on the chopping block today, especially since I did play a part in George's miselimination. If you have a guilty or inno on me, just say it. There's no "boxing scum into a corner" here.

same a50

uh well I did but I didn't really keep who I was targeting a secret

Thank you for actually giving information.

PE: Uhhh what. Redtea was supposed to shoot me, not Dwlee. And shooting once doesn't clear anyone, redtea has to shoot twice to account for Bulletproof Traitor.

[Three]

I'd vote T3 right now but I'm afraid he might self hammer.

I didn't ask redtea to shoot me to redirect a bullet away from scum. I asked to get shot because redtea was told not to shoot anyone, and I offered myself so that he'd at least have something to do. Then with T3's claim we had a way to clear me of being neither Mafia nor Traitor. Instead, he...targets Jacket.

The problem is not only did he not follow the plan, he didn't feel the need to check me even though he supposedly scum read me almost the entirety of Day 1. All this does is put me in a spot where people already don't trust me and then amplify it, since T3 purposely chose to keep my alignment unknown. He had no legitimate reason to check Jacket, and scum had no real reason not to kill T3.

T3's just scum claiming at this point.

[Three]

Well this game is a mess.

[Three]

I was baffled at first about why cookie got shot but it might have actually been big brain. It stops cookie from getting miseliminated and now we know for sure that there is a Traitor.

Why is T3 still alive?

[Three]

Why weren't you blocked?

[Three]

Also isn't Zen a confirmed liar? He claimed A50 was lying about stuff that was said in their hood PT. But A50 flipped green. What motive would A50 have to lie and make Zen look bad? Granted, A50 never denied lying, but I feel like it got brushed over when I was reading over what happened yesterday and it's possible he just never thought to address it.

[Three]

Ok, that's true. It came up a few times but it looks like he just addressed it there. I can't say that's big proof that you're town though, all you did was claim 1-shot BP and we know the Traitor is exactly that. It would mean the set up puts two pseudo Millers in a hood and I just don't see the point of it.

If T3 is a mafia Traffic Analyst/Neighbor Finder, it could be to point the scum team in their direction, fire the bullet, and realize they hit their Traitor. The twist being they don't know which BP Neighbor is their Traitor and which is just town.

I don't know who is the final scum in this scenario but I'm going to be looking into vote counts.

[Three]

Ok, that's true. It came up a few times but it looks like he just addressed it there. I can't say that's big proof that you're town though, all you did was claim 1-shot BP and we know the Traitor is exactly that. It would mean the set up puts two pseudo Millers in a hood and I just don't see the point of it.

If T3 is a mafia Traffic Analyst/Neighbor Finder, it could be to point the scum team in their direction, fire the bullet, and realize they hit their Traitor. The twist being they don't know which BP Neighbor is their Traitor and which is just town.

I don't know who is the final scum in this scenario but I'm going to be looking into vote counts.

We only know that there is a BP traitor here, not that he is a 1-shot BP traitor. Else Cool cookie would surely have specified that.

The tone of your response here feels very "well

technically

..." and doesn't address the fact that even if the Traitor is ungated BP, you can also just fake claim 1-shot.

zenman what makes three town

I'd like to know too.

[Three]

If T3 is scum then he likely TMI'd that StD is town.

[Three]

Why weren't you blocked?

I have no idea.

Not even one idea?

If T3 is scum then he likely TMI'd that StD is town.

Nah I have a meta tell on STD.

You've also claimed to be honest with your meta tells regardless of alignment. Which means you can be confident in your meta analysis as scum. To town, it might as well be TMI.

[Three]

Can somebody walk me through why we would not have a TA since redtea was a gated vig?

Weak/Loyal/Disloyal, I'd understand, but Complex just told him whether the player is PR/Vanilla.

Would 2 power roles that can both give false positives not be the rough equivalent of 1 actually useful investigational role?

It certainly can be useful, but that's not the problem.

What use does Town have for being able to find Neighbors? TA can find scum, sure, but Neighbor Finder has no real town use, and the fact that both Neighbors are BP just seems more helpful for scum to find than town.

I am however willing to listen to a town case for a Neighbor Finder given the context of our Neighbors being BP in a set up that is confirmed to have a BP Traitor.

[Three]

Also why wasn't T3 blocked? We already think he's fake claiming, but if he's town why would scum risk not blocking him in case he is actually fake claiming and has a more substantial PR?

To put it another way, if I was scum and T3 was town, I don't start randomly blocking other people. It's just such an unnecessary risk.

I recommend everyone else think through that hypothetical situation themselves. If you're scum and T3 is town, do you really risk not blocking him Night 2?

[Three]

Neighbor finder sounds useless as either alignment to me. People claim that anyway

I don't disagree too much with this.

Can somebody walk me through why we would not have a TA since redtea was a gated vig?

Weak/Loyal/Disloyal, I'd understand, but Complex just told him whether the player is PR/Vanilla.

Would 2 power roles that can both give false positives not be the rough equivalent of 1 actually useful investigational role?

It certainly can be useful, but that's not the problem.

What use does Town have for being able to find Neighbors? TA can find scum, sure, but Neighbor Finder has no real town use, and the fact that both Neighbors are BP just seems more helpful for scum to find than town.

I am however willing to listen to a town case for a Neighbor Finder given the context of our Neighbors being BP in a set up that is confirmed to have a BP Traitor.

PT Cop is a new role to me. It didn't exist when I was here last.

I don't know the intracacies and full utility of it.

A method of testing claims, perhaps? That doesn't confirm alignment, though. The other half of his role is more useful for that, if he's town.

IDK. :/

That's kind of my point, it's only half useful for town if true.

[Three]

Also why wasn't T3 blocked? We already think he's fake claiming, but if he's town why would scum risk not blocking him in case he is actually fake claiming and has a more substantial PR?

To put it another way, if I was scum and T3 was town, I don't start randomly blocking other people. It's just such an unnecessary risk.

I recommend everyone else think through that hypothetical situation themselves. If you're scum and T3 is town, do you really risk not blocking him Night 2?

Roleblockers are rare and very strong so if there is one it might be gated

A scum team that has only has two mafia and a gated role blocker sounds odd. But I can't judge balance here.

[Three]

I've seen odd-night strongman and a traffic analyst with a traitor which is weaker to me than anything with a roleblocker

That's a fair point.

[Three]

I hadn't considered Ascetic Jacket. However, he claimed he got a message from cookie. What was the message, Jacket?

[Three]

Okay so using precedent that most of the time when I tunnel in a silly way D1 it's on town, let's say I assume three is town here (which I think also has ended up being consensusy)

Then we have
TheZenMan
House
Save The Dragons
T3
Jacket
HawaiianPizza

I think we need an investigative role which gives us

TheZenMan
House
Save The Dragons
Jacket
HawaiianPizza

Sheeping t3 on STD no matter how bad meta is would give us

TheZenMan
House
Jacket
HawaiianPizza

House has been townie and his interactions with Jacket look really good

TheZenMan
Jacket
HawaiianPizza

As the solve. HP being the traitor would make sense cause he could be signalling by angling towards voting me or t3 that he is the traitor

I'd like to add that Pizza has also been off wagon for both town lims. They were the lone vanity vote on me Day 1, and the lone vanity vote on Zen Day 2.

[Three]

Pizza's vote progression:

Spoiler:

(Translator's Note: gay means mafia-aligned)

gay => happy => positive => green

VOTE: redtea

suspicious translator's note

VOTE: House

so this game exists,

Vote fua

VOTE: fua

anyway, what do you think of
VOTE: Dwlee99

(still in the process of properly catching up and stuff)

because it was a random vote

Oh, I thought it was serious. I think three has been scummy

This is probably town since I'd expect scum to give an actual reason for their fake scum read.

VOTE: Three

don't tell him that was actually a pretty terrible take on osetr.

As it isn't true, I won't tell him that.

hfgkasjldfjlsfsfng i'm right you're wrong

yeah get your votes off of three already
i might get on the fua wagon if we really did catch scum tripping but I'll wait for them to come back round first

pedit speak of the devil

k

VOTE: Save The Dragons

If we're calling a truce then I need a new target, and I don't want to vote cookie. We've got three people who basically aren't playing, and the game state doesn't feel like it's had much scum influence, so I think we'd have a good chance hitting scum there. Between George/Zen/A50, I feel least good about George due to their awkward RVS posts. Zen's posts are whatever, and Wake/A50 never posted so I have nothing there. Maybe Wake dropped because they didn't want to play scum?

Otherwise, as far as our active posters go, any that are scum are likely just playing very safe/muted. Assuming the treaty with Fua is pure, I think cookie and redtea are telling the truth and are town. I feel good about House and Dwlee as well.

Which leaves Jacket/STD/T3/Pizza for basically my null reads. T3 is insistent STD is town though, so I could believe it if he gave a compelling enough reason.

For now I'm fine with voting George.

VOTE: George

PE: I could do a Jacket vote as well.

VOTE: Three
explain reads on house/dwlee/fua (other than that treaty)

UNVOTE: Three

quickhammers bad tbh

so anyway, not in danger of a quickhammer anymore unless i'm blind VOTE: Three
do we have to reach a majority for lunch or is plurality enabled

also dislike cookie/george wagons, i think

pineapple on pizza ruins the texture

VOTE: T3
how dare you. also explain on fua/three. .

oops... look, i get it, there are "better" options on the menu

fine

i bet most of you haven't even tasted me tho

People are really complaining about Hawaiian Pizza when there are people out there who don’t put any toppings or cheese on their pizza, while some even put

goat cheese

on theirs.

Pineapple is literally just a fruit. It’s fine on pizza. People should stop making a big deal about it and I will die on this hill.

i heard you ordering a margherita last night...

pineapple on pizza ruins the texture

VOTE: T3
how dare you. also explain on fua/three. .

I don't think scum would be so blatant about something like that.

i'm too lazy to go back and check
take "meh" as an answer for now

VOTE: Three host pls don't kill me

well, i would've been opposed to george's wagon, but i obviously came too late
i don't understand this kill either

meh

VOTE: Almost50

back in the oven

VOTE: TheZenMan

wait

VOTE: Almost50

omg he's still on the vc

[Three]

what does me being a vanity vote every day mean to you?

also @dwlee, why sheep t3 on std (some meta read they refuse to explain)? do you have a read on std otherwise?

I'd like to add that Pizza has also been off wagon for both town lims. They were the lone vanity vote on me Day 1, and the lone vanity vote on Zen Day 2.

What do you think that means?

At first I figured Pizza was just never around at EoD to change their vote, but going by how vote happy they've been all game it seems more like they not only wanted to stay off of mislim wagons, they wanted to stay off of wagons completely to give out as little info as possible and avoid receiving attention/being forced to take stances. Even looking at their vote progression, the only player they seemed to have a solid opinion on was me, which they've now flipped on.

[Three]

I hadn't considered Ascetic Jacket. However, he claimed he got a message from cookie. What was the message, Jacket?

Nothing really important. Stated it was cool cookie, they were a bit busy and confused, said that maybe we should do a mass claim tomorrow to clear the mech stuff up. Said we need some VCA and they don't know if they really trust anyone right now. Said that maybe scum kill them tonight which would be a decent result for town because at least it would confirm the existence of the traitor. Ends with "adios".

I believe this honestly, the little personal touch of "adios" seems genuine. Plus, no one else is claiming a message.

[Three]

but i was not around for EoD1?
and D2 quickhammer happened, i expected i would have enough time to deal with my zen/a50 reads after sleeping.
this is straight up false

lemme check my votes, maybe ill explain every vote i made

I did say you weren't around. Your EoD votes still give no info or stances though.

I agree that you should explain your votes, because I'm honestly not sure where you stood Days 1 and 2. I do think you could be town but I'm not getting much info from looking at your votes as is.

[Three]

Actually should we save that for tomorrow? If it makes you look townie then saving your vote explanations makes more sense so you don't get NK'd for your efforts.

[Three]

Just save your big post in a draft or a memo for tomorrow.

I'll just say that I don't necessarily scum read you Pizza, you're null PoE for me.

[Three]

I feel good about StD. I don't want to hard town read Dwlee, but they've seemed solvey today and I've liked their mech talk. I could be wrong about T3, if no invests speak up tomorrow then I guess he's just town. I'm back and forth on Jacket, but I don't like that he's saying he'll snap vote tomorrow since if him and his target are both town then it's an instant loss for town. Which could just be a scum slip since this isn't the newbie queue and he should know better. And House is probably town just based off of Day 1 vibes. He did volunteer to get meta'd by T3 and I still think T3 should follow through on that.

Zen is just the Traitor in my eyes. And if it gets confirmed it would change my read on House since he's been hard defending him.

[Three]

I'm back and forth on Jacket, but I don't like that he's saying he'll snap vote tomorrow since if him and his target are both town then it's an instant loss for town. Which could just be a scum slip since this isn't the newbie queue and he should know better.

No shit? Of course I know that.

The way I see it, I can sit on my hands and wait for someone else to mess up while scum do their best to influence people to vote wrong, or I can take destiny into my own hands and force a 1v1. I think I know one mafia, that's all I need.

Way I see it, there's a few people who are openly broadcasting that they want to vote me. I don't think they're all mafia. That means scum know what the best kill is and will be angling to vote me, so I don't really expect to die. If I do not make the vote I want, scum will try to maneuver to get the vote they want. So the best thing I can do is to not let that happen.

You're not making sense. The game always ends if someone votes wrong tomorrow, doesn't matter if it's 1 minute into the day or an hour before deadline. Do you think anyone who makes the first vote in ELO is mafia, since the vote could lose the game? I don't understand your thinking.

I don't understand the point of voting no elimination today if you're just going to immediately fire from the hip tomorrow anyway. I assume you don't expect your scum read to die tonight, so what's stopping you from voting?

[Three]

Because I could be wrong and my scumread dies anyway, and because even if that doesn't happen, someone dying in the night narrows things down. Because unless there's a clear, you always vote no elim on ELO+1. This isn't the newbie queue, so you should know that.

If you're town and you know you could be wrong and still want to instantly vote in ELo, then I'm sorry, but that's poor town play and you're just contradicting yourself.

The amount of scumreads being thrown around based on the idea of "This person does not confirm to my ideal procedures for playing Mafia, therefore they are scum" is absurd.

No one's saying you have to play in a certain ideal way. But do you really think the things you're saying don't read as scummy? Even a little bit?

[Three]

If you're town and you know you could be wrong and still want to instantly vote in ELo, then I'm sorry, but that's poor town play and you're just contradicting yourself.

How do you propose that I, as a VT, become 100% confident in a read? I don't think it's a contradictory notion at all. I have a scumread I want to go after. I don't really trust anyone else to make the right call. That may be hypocritical, seeing as it's not like I've been great this game. But I like the idea more than waiting for someone else to make a move.

Of course, that doesn't mean I'm ever going to be completely confident. That's just not how the game works. Unless you're a PR with mechanical info there's always going to be uncertainty.

No one's saying you have to play in a certain ideal way. But do you really think the things you're saying don't read as scummy? Even a little bit?

No, because the entire rationale you have given above is "If you do this thing, it is bad play if you are town. No town could ever think differently than I do, so you are scummy."

Which ignores the idea that I clearly don't view the game in the same weird terms you do, given that I can't even make sense of what you're demanding of me.

Just lay out what you think the model little townie is supposed to do, because clearly I don't understand how to play the game, at least in your eyes.

Then you're scum claiming and I'll be voting you tomorrow in the 1v1. Snap voting in ELo is always a bad idea and you're not going to be able to convince me that it's not. Why would you not wait for everyone to check in? Why would you not wait for people to claim invest results? Why would you not bother collaborating with town reads? Especially when you're not 100% confident with your read?

It's anti-town no matter how you want to spin it. The bar for town cooperation is so low as it is and you don't even want to approach it. You're even admitting your reads have been bad and you

still

want to be the sole factor for whether or not town wins.

[Three]

Not emotional, annoyed. If I was emotional I would've voted you. But nice gaslighting, definitely a pro town post.

What did I not answer?

[Three]

What did I not answer?

[Three]

Not emotional, annoyed. If I was emotional I would've voted you. But nice gaslighting, definitely a pro town post.

What did I not answer?

I would say "annoyed" is an emotion. I think accusing someone of "gaslighting" you and being anti-town for calling you emotional is a pretty emotional move.

I haven't even said what my read on you is or anything.

I asked: How am I supposed to be 100% confident in a read I vote on in ELO? You implied that voting when there's a possibility you could be wrong is "poor town play". So I took it as belief that the only time someone should vote is if they're completely confident.

I also asked you to "lay out what you think the model little townie is supposed to do". I really want to know, because it's clear you're not approaching the game the way I am and are becoming extremely agitated by a disagreement over procedure.

Why would you not wait for everyone to check in? Why would you not wait for people to claim invest results? Why would you not bother collaborating with town reads? Especially when you're not 100% confident with your read?

[Three]

Repeatedly telling someone they're being emotional when they're telling you that they're not is the most stereotypical form of gaslighting. I'm not here to convince you that you're doing what you know you're doing.

[Three]

This is going nowhere.

I'm over it.

VOTE: no lim

I agree but I don't want Three to accuse me of being scum for dodging questions or whatever.

You sound emotional.

[Three]

Repeatedly telling someone they're being emotional when they're telling you that they're not is the most stereotypical form of gaslighting. I'm not here to convince you that you're doing what you know you're doing.

You very clearly becoming agitated over this, and it's making you difficult to respond to.


The stuff you're saying is all wrapped up in personal feelings and not liking me. You're not bridging the gap between "This person acts in a way that displeases me" and "This person is taking actions that work toward a mafia win condition". I've tried to criticize this while explaining my point of view. But any disagreement with you over how to play is met with outright hostility and accusations of me being scummy.

Except this started with me saying snap voting is a bad idea and you responded by saying you're just going to do what you want. I tried talking it out and you just doubled down. I don't have a personal problem with you and I don't dislike you, but you're free to point out where I said the opposite.

[Three]

This is going nowhere.

I'm over it.

VOTE: no lim

I agree but I don't want Three to accuse me of being scum for dodging questions or whatever.

You sound emotional.

Hmm, do I? What emotion was I displaying there?

Self-victimization. You keep saying we don't like you and that we've been making it personal, but you're the only one who feels that way.

[Three]

GG, well played mafia team.