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[ChaosOmega]

VOTE: Mewtaph

[ChaosOmega]

What about your posting made you think you would get votes? If you thought this was likely, why make those posts?

[ChaosOmega]

Lol, page 1 just unloading the cannon.

I actually didn't like 10 more, I was voting for that before I was sniped. It reads like cautious scum, they want to make a vote to build a wagon and force pressure to look town but don't want to step on any toes, so they pull all the teeth from the vote saying it's for pressure and they're not sure what for.

[ChaosOmega]

Evidently I think you're more likely to be town than not because I don't think mafia!you steps on my toes as boldly as you have but I've been wrong before.

in what way does salsa's posts towards you make you think it's unlikely to be scum stepping on toes, that doesn't make you feel so from me/omega?

also, can was there a reason you picked her - taking a cursory glance at your topics, i don't see you've played together before?

It felt unnecessarily stand-offish. Scum can accomplish the same outcome (ie. reaching the conclusion of voting me) without navigating it the way that they did.

I chose her because of all places I could place my vote at the time, 1) this applied genuine pressure at the time, 2 votes being the largest wagon possible. This limited my options to a few people already. From there, I guess you could say it's a guessing game. I could be wrong about my read, as I have gotten similar reactions from both town and mafia. It depends on how things develop from here.

Placing a 2nd vote on someone on page 1 with the reason "Applying additional pressure here. Results of said pressure to be determined" does not apply "genuine pressure". Your last game I see, you were town and entered the game with a naked vote on a building wagon. That can actually build pressure. What you've done this game looks fake.

On an unrelated note Mewtaph, what do you think of Margot?

----

ssbm, what is your read on Mewtaph, and what are your thoughts on the iv wagon forming?

[ChaosOmega]

Evidently I think you're more likely to be town than not because I don't think mafia!you steps on my toes as boldly as you have but I've been wrong before.

in what way does salsa's posts towards you make you think it's unlikely to be scum stepping on toes, that doesn't make you feel so from me/omega?

also, can was there a reason you picked her - taking a cursory glance at your topics, i don't see you've played together before?

It felt unnecessarily stand-offish. Scum can accomplish the same outcome (ie. reaching the conclusion of voting me) without navigating it the way that they did.

I chose her because of all places I could place my vote at the time, 1) this applied genuine pressure at the time, 2 votes being the largest wagon possible. This limited my options to a few people already. From there, I guess you could say it's a guessing game. I could be wrong about my read, as I have gotten similar reactions from both town and mafia. It depends on how things develop from here.

Placing a 2nd vote on someone on page 1 with the reason "Applying additional pressure here. Results of said pressure to be determined" does not apply "genuine pressure". Your last game I see, you were town and entered the game with a naked vote on a building wagon. That can actually build pressure. What you've done this game looks fake.

On an unrelated note Mewtaph, what do you think of Margot?

----

ssbm, what is your read on Mewtaph, and what are your thoughts on the iv wagon forming?

I don't want to get stuck on something that happened on page 2-3. All I'll say is this: I think we're referring to different types of pressure here. I got what I wanted out of my vote, arguably more than I bargained for since we seemed to have moved out of RVS almost immediately after that post. If this causes others to scumread me then fine.

I like Margot's intention to do a dive and post a reads list. Do I actually like Margot as town is a different situation entirely and something I'm still going to have to decide on in the posts to come.

It's not ancient history, it was 10 pages ago. My problem with you is that I think you're lying and now waffling between pivoting to the utility of you making weird posts (it took us out of RVS, that's good, yay me) and still trying to justify your posting as good because it provided pressure and allowed your read on SF to be clearer. Please clarify what pressure you applied with your posting, and how this is different than pressure that I am referring to.

Oh, so it's a serious vote then. Alright.

There are a few players being cautious around locking in as town too early, T3 and Datisi. I think both are townier than not right now but that also just gives me pause.

I don't like ssbm_Kyouko's reasoning for their vote in their last post because trying to meta someone you haven't really played with doesn't really work. Or at least the meta read is going to be shallow as I know that it is wrong here. I know that you replaced into my scum slot but you haven't really engaged with me as players with me being scum and you being town so for you to call me on a scumtell is a little bit unsettling.

I don't understand Margot's scumread on me either. I wasn't exactly trying to do a galaxy brain play, just trying to move the game out of RVS. I'm not exactly sure what's to dislike about my posts directed to Salsabil Faria specifically. Is it because they come off as forced or something else entirely? I have no clue, just that they don't like my posts and that they don't like the AtE coming from my slot (which I don't really spot, but okay).

Of all the votes on me, ChaosOmega's vote makes the most sense to me and he has explained why he thinks my opening comes off poorly and I can see why. Overall though there's just not enough content in his ISO for me to feel comfortable giving him a solidified read. Similarly, Aristeia is in the same boat. Just not enough posts for me to feel comfortable giving a settled read on. Hopefully that changes by the end of the day.

Few things here:
- Why wouldn't you address Margot's read on you in her read list when I asked you about her in 271?
- How can you say here "I'm not exactly sure what's to dislike about my posts directed to Salsabil Faria specifically" when you said in 15/19 that you saw the possibility to receive votes for your post directed to Salsabil Faria?
- You criticize ssbm for using meta against you, but I also used meta against you in 271. Why push her and not me for it?

-----

I'm aware that I'm sort of tunneled here at this point, I don't have any other strong reads right now. I don't feel great about Dwlee, but it's more a vibe than anything, don't have a case to make (and also the last time I played with Dwlee they were town and I pushed them, so this might just be a bias I have against their posting style).

T3, has your read changed on Mewtaph since 118?

[ChaosOmega]

can you please condense this into one post? comments on like every post since page one is gonna be annoying as hell

I'll comment as I'm reading, then condense it into the longest quotewall ever.

[ChaosOmega]

UNVOTE:

At this point, I don't think the back and forth with Mew is helpful. I disagree with some things from his last response to me, but it's getting semantic and I'm feeling better about his slot.

Posting from my phone, I feel like crap. I need to look back over this game because I'm pretty lost right now in terms of reads, will do that tomorrow.

[ChaosOmega]

VOTE: datsi

I've re-read, but I still don't have a great bearing on things. Top scumreads are datsi, Dwlee, and iv. datsi's progression on Margot (from 203 to 267 to 269) reads weird, like you want to keep on Datisi's good side but didn't actually change the read at all. 289 also has a weird vibe, really just the "I am loathe to use it as the primary evidence for a push" part. The tone is weirdly cautious, and given the light push (492) and then defending the slot (711/714) later, it reads partner-y. The sequence 508/616/630/690/698, datsi drops the thread and doesn't mention Ari again, it doesn't read like datsi is trying to solve Ari's slot.

Dwlee, 66 gives them a reason not to be NK'd, a claim wasn't necessary there as part of the reaction test. It's already been commented on, but the early buddying with Datisi reads odd. It's so over the top to the point that it doesn't read as trying to pocket, but still odd. Speaking of lame reaction tests, they spend multiple posts on multiple people asking for opinions on Roden. Obviously a joke, but it's made in a way to look vaguely productive like they're doing a reaction test. 287 gives similar vibes to datsi's 269 earlier. If you think it makes him likelier to be scum, then push him and get something out of him, the hand-wringing here is weird.

Getting ready to eat dinner, will follow up on this later with iv.

[ChaosOmega]

Chaos nooo if you're town we can't do this again

Lol, I'm conscious of this. I'm not going to tunnel you again, my scumread is not as strong as the previous game.

[ChaosOmega]

If no one's interested in datsi, I'll make my vote useful.

VOTE: innocentvillager

I can't get a good read on T3 or N_M this game (or ever, really), so I'm fine going there as well. Not really into the Margot wagon.

[ChaosOmega]

Mewtaph having pressure against their slot lowered and then ghosting for almost 4 days is a bad look. They're not active on site at all, so could have just flaked.

with how lethargic this game has been, it kind of feels like scum are just fine with what's going on and t3 has been on the radar for quite a while now

This is kind of the feeling I have, although of the 4 wagons that are a thing right now, T3 is the one I most support that isn't the one I'm currently on.

[ChaosOmega]

Chaos, what happened to your suspicions on Dwlee? They seemed pretty consistent up to 942, then Dwlee makes 943 and you seem to drop it because he AtEs you. I thought this drop of the read was worse than it really was because I thought you made 1047

after

Datisi had just voted Dwlee (I was reading your ISO and recalled 1047 was made around the time that happened, but when I opened thread I saw Datisi voted in 1049).

Can you also go into your IV scumread? You said you'd follow up with it but didn't post the reasoning later on, just voted him

I still have suspicions of Dwlee, I'm just cognizant of previously misreading them and going off the rails (and you were in that game as well). Especially since they're not a viable option today, I'm tabling it for now.

True, let me go back through here. His opening, this is a minor point and I'm biased because I've seen scum do it twice now since I've been back, but his start where he's like livetweeting as he's reading supposedly to look town and give genuine reactions seems easy for scum to fake. I'm going to quote his read on Datisi from 694:

datisi - i honestly have no idea on datisi nothing he's done makes me think town or scum. push on me was bad but i can see it from scum him too.

This is also minor (which might be a trend), but this is a weird choice of wording to use. He scumread Datisi earlier in the game, the post has Datisi in null, so his read softened a bit it looks like, but wording it like this makes it seem like the bad push on his slot is most likely if Datisi is town, which he was arguing against earlier. This also seems like a weird backtrack to make on Datisi's slot, he scumread Datisi previously, but now none of his actions are AI to him. It reads like he got Datisi to suspect him less, then lessened his own read to disengage and get suspicion off himself. I also think his scumread and park on Margot is lazy, but this might be more of a playstyle difference and I understand why he would be more invested in the read.

[ChaosOmega]

I feel like if T3 was scum, he would have jumped on the iv wagon for towncred. It's possible both of the big wagons at the end of D1 were on scum, but not super likely I think.

VOTE: Aristeia

Top 2 scum reads are Ari and datsi, but I think it's fairly unlikely they're the last 2 scum given their interactions so far. Ari's pivot from iv to T3 on 1117 is not a great look given the timing and wagon sizes at that point.

[ChaosOmega]

UNVOTE:

Fine with the T3 lim here with what he's posted today. If T3 does flip scum, will need to go back through the game, my main assumption with the Ari read is T3 being town. I think datsi still makes sense as scum there, and 1270 has a weird overly defensive vibe, they were suspected but not being pushed.

[ChaosOmega]

VOTE: Aristeia

I feel like if T3 was scum, he would have jumped on the iv wagon for towncred. It's possible both of the big wagons at the end of D1 were on scum, but not super likely I think.

VOTE: Aristeia

Top 2 scum reads are Ari and datsi, but I think it's fairly unlikely they're the last 2 scum given their interactions so far. Ari's pivot from iv to T3 on 1117 is not a great look given the timing and wagon sizes at that point.

so T3 would've voted IV for towncred but me who spent most of my day talking about how IV is a scumbag using AtE to defend himself, I wouldn't vote him for towncred?

Do you actually read what you post before you post it?

VOTE: T3

T3 was on a vanity wagon by himself at the end of D1, you were on the leading counterwagon to iv, which we now know was on town. Do you think these are the same?

I'm getting repeatedly told by two different players that they refuse to talk to me, and imply I've done or said something genuinely damaging. Faking an emotional response, and claiming harm to one's emotional state, are just two completely different things and takes this game to a place that makes it impossible for me to actually play.

Genuinely, what am I supposed to do here?

I do not think either of them have claimed that they have been mentally harmed by your actions in this game.

I also don't think your actions would lead to mental harm of anyone, I don't think any of your actions have crossed that particular line.

Expressing suspicion of people is just how the game is played.

Claiming that someone's suspicion of you has caused you serious mental harm is not.

like if the IC is going to townread my partner for "emotional response reasons" why would I spend like 10 posts telling him NO NO NO this is wrong?

Are you asking me why as scum you would say something to look like you're town? Your posting didn't sway him to iv, he voted T3 in 1087 after your spiel and you followed along right after in 1117 voting T3 as well.

I brought up this vote previously because it looks extremely suspicious. T3 and iv both had 3 votes, with you voting for iv. iv gained a vote from N_M and T3 lost a vote from Dwlee. You then move off of iv to T3, making them even again. It screams trying to kill wagon momentum on iv, and you stayed on T3 until the end of the day.

[ChaosOmega]

Ari, are you just ignoring my 1369 because no one seems to give a shit about it?

datsi, how likely do you think it is both remaining scum were on the iv wagon D1?

[ChaosOmega]

Ari, are you just ignoring my 1369 because no one seems to give a shit about it?

datsi, how likely do you think it is both remaining scum were on the iv wagon D1?

I think it might still be possible but both enchant and dwlee were on IV and dwlee was kinda someone I thought might be sus on the wagon

Can you like ballpark the percentage chance that you think both remaining scum were on iv's wagon and the chance both remaining scum were on T3's wagon end of D1 (this should be less than 100%, I'm not interested in one scum on, one scum off)? Trying to get inside your head here.

[ChaosOmega]

if all you are looking at is the VC at end of day and not looking at how I shut down IV's emotional manipulation at every turn and talked our IC out of townbinning him for his bullshit emotional manipulation and ate then frankly you are just an incredibly lazy player and not doing even 5% of what you should be doing to help town win this game.

And your posting here isn't bullshit emotional manipulation and AtE?

Both you and datsi have bad progressions on iv D1, regardless of you claiming that saying those things and then ignoring iv and voting for the leading counterwagon apparently makes you town. Lim one, vig the other if the lim flips town.

[ChaosOmega]

So you can make AtE's saying how you would never do that as town? If you thought iv was scum from him doing all of that, why move your vote off of him? What was T3 doing D1 that made you scumread him more?

[ChaosOmega]

You're trying to get towncred for your interaction with him right now without the vote. You wouldn't vote him presumably because you wanted your partner to live.

Why move your vote to T3? There's a reason for the vote regardless of your alignment. I see a clear reason if you're scum. Why as town would you move your vote there? What about T3 made him more scummy than iv?

[ChaosOmega]

You seemed pretty even between T3 and iv while voting for iv, then your exchange with Roden about iv happens, which I would think would make you scumread iv more, but you switch to T3 right after.

[ChaosOmega]

because t3 spammed a bunch of nonsense in the thread which made me lose what little patience i had for his nonsense

Fair enough.

I still think we should be limming in datsi/Ari and vigging the other if the lim is town, but I don't think this conversation will be more productive if continued. I do feel slightly better about Ari from it.

[ChaosOmega]

I also really doubt that Margot is scum.

[ChaosOmega]

I never said I wasn't up for killing datsi today. I only have one vote and I wanted to dig into you a bit.

UNVOTE:

I'm not sure if massclaim today is the right play. The main role we expose is the vig, but claiming today prevents mafia from CC'ing, and we're on evens right now, one more shot before getting NK'd to put us to odds seems fine. With the 2 ICs, there's probably not a ton of town power hiding away. I'm fine either way, not sure what the optimal play here is.

[ChaosOmega]

VOTE: Salsa

PoE is Salsa/Ari/Datisi. I think scum have to have been off the iv wagon D1 given that there was a viable town counterwagon and the last 2 votes to hammer iv were himself and the IC. ssbm is claimed vig with no cc, I can't imagine a universe where Margot is scum here, and Enchant is mod-confirmed.

[ChaosOmega]

quick things i wanna put out: i want everyone who is voting salsa to give a case on who her partner is. doubly so for people who are certain in that vote. my biggest issue with yeeting gamma yesterday was that he seemed unaligned with pretty much everyone, and none of his voters actually took this into consideration. and he flipped green. so i'm forcing the issue now.

Going to wait for Salsa to post her thoughts before answering this, but I do have someone in mind.

[ChaosOmega]

@Ari

, you're also voting

T3

from Day 1 like me, but you're town and I'm scum?

If the mod didn’t add another day on D1, I would vote

iv

to end the day + if

T3

would alive in D3, my vote would be parked there again.

Btw, my final will start in an half an hour, so wish me luck...

I think

Ari

and

datsi

isn’t TvT.

Also

@ssbm

, why

MR

is scum to you?

I never saw 2 ic before, what kind of mafia pr can have for multiple ic?

Datisi votes for T3 -> 5 votes <says it's NM-1, it's not>

5 votes (with 7 to yeet) *is* nm-1 though

i'm gonna write freely and see where i end up

alive people are -

datisi

, margot, salsa, ari, kyouko,

enchant

, gamma, chaos
i'm town, enchant is ic, that leaves 2 scum in the remaining 6

if we're in the easy world - margot is town for her post that buried iv, kyouko is town for the relatively early vote on iv, ari is town for her attacks on iv and accusing him of manipulation, and chaos was attacking iv for a long while and didn't budge.

in that easy world, that leaves gamma and salsa. i am interested in what those two will present today.

however, the other two i kinda wanna be cautious about are kyouko and margot. kyouko is *probably* not scum because i recall someone saying her scumgame is flat and that she was efforting this game or making cases or whatever, but eh. margot, while her post on iv was pretty solid and helped convince our ic to vote there, it keeps nagging at me that that vote was made a bit lateish on the wagon, in a position where she couldn't have voted t3 since she kept defending him

(sidenote, this is what i was thinking of on d1 when i said i was feeling cold feet on margot/t3, i thought there was a mason soft there)

i'm still not feeling like playing mafia right now so these are notes for people to know vaguely where my head is at if they want to interact with me / for me to know what i want to look at later

vote-wise i'll start here: VOTE: salsabil

I was the one who said

ssbm

is flat as a scum.

I'm still townlocking

Datisi

and

MR

(if these 2 are scums then we're lost alredy!)

I has suspicion about

Enchant

slot due to

Mew

but now they're also clear which left 1 scums in this:

datsi

/

Ari

where I'm leaning towards town!

Ari

because of her

iv

push [if it's staged then we're already lost! (2)]

And the other scum in this:

ssbm

/

CO

where I townread

ssbm

independently and townread

CO

for the

iv

push. I need to re-read from D1 to figure this but if my townblock is accurate then that means scum was bussed

iv

.

VOTE: datsi

These quotes make it seem like you would be suspecting Ari more here, what makes me more likely to be scum?

[ChaosOmega]

Still happy with my Salsa vote. Going back to Datisi's question on who makes sense for her partner, both Ari and Datisi fit, Ari because of Salsa's reasoning in 1654 where she's scrapping all her previous logic because of lack of confidence to pivot away from Ari, but still using the logic to make me her next target, and Datisi from his amount of defending Salsa's slot over datsi's slot given similar circumstances (I know this has been explained in 1643, but it doesn't mean this is the actual reason). Need to read back through previous days looking at Salsa's interactions with everyone.

[ChaosOmega]

I feel like from the way things have gone since I posted my Datisi case we have good partner interactions to go off of.

Datisi really only makes sense with one player now I think, and that's Chaos. Everyone else is quick to jump on board when Datisi has what the hivemind seems to say is a bad reaction. That's the narrative everyone is pushing right now. "Datisi is scum because he's overreacted to Kyouko's 1 vote." This is either true or it's being perpetuated by scum.

The one (non-conftown) person who isn't pushing this narrative is Chaos, in fact he slides right over it and "gets back to datisi" on his question about Salsa partners. It feels a bit scripted, like Chaos was just playing his part, doing what he was "supposed to" - he clearly missed a tonal shift in the gamestate and I feel like this lack of awareness is scum!indicative. The way I see it we will branch one of two ways from a Chaos flip:

Town!Chaos: He was the only sensible partner to Datisi, so Datisi is soft cleared until a scum is found. If aristea is flipped and found to be scum, there's a possibility she and Datisi have theatred this game hard from D1 and Datisi comes back on the table. Otherwise he remains clear. Top suspects are Salsa and MR.

Scum!Chaos: Datisi has to go next due to the mutual lack of meaningful interactions between these slots, combined with what has transpired since my case was posted. If Datisi then flips town, Salsa is likely town from the Chaos push, and the last scum is in {Margot, Aristea}

I am concerned about what will happen tomorrow if Datisi is miseliminated as town. I would prefer to start at Chaos and go from there based on his alignment, especially after what's gone down in the past few pages.

VOTE: ChaosOmega

There was definitely a tonal shift, but why would that cause me to change my course? If anything, it locks in my choice on Salsa further, Ari/Datisi does not look like S/S from that interaction, I think Salsa is a likely partner to either, and given the extreme likelihood of scum off the iv wagon D1, Salsa makes a ton of sense.

Strike through is the part of the case that I don't vibe with the reasoning because of those arent lies, those are just estimations, but the WIM shown from examining timestamps like that is just obvtown imo. I know I never do that as scum, and very rarely will I do it as town.

Oh I'm glad I found this while examining Margot for crumbs.

If Chaos is town, Salsa is next - this loses only to Aristea/Datisi team.

Or Salsa/Datisi, or Margot with either Datisi or Ari. I don't really think Margot is scum, I'm ok banking on that one, but I don't get the confidence in assuming Salsa/Datisi is not a team, even with their recent interaction.

---

I'm VT.

[ChaosOmega]

Still still happy with my Salsa vote. Her jump to Margot in 1817 looks super opportunistic and doesn't make sense given her reads in 1782.

[ChaosOmega]

I don't really get why I'm being scumread here. I have no reason to bus iv D1, I jump on early as a compromise and vote park him, I obviously didn't gain towncred from the way I did it. Scumreading T3 and jumping on his wagon would have been my play, I wouldn't have garnered suspicion and I'm not limming my PR teammate in the process.

I know my alignment so I'm biased, but this seems like a waste of a lim. With the way D1 played out, it is extremely likely scum were on the T3 counterwagon. I know it's impossible both scum bussed because the only unaccounted iv votes are me and Margot, but even from the outside it should seem extremely unlikely. We should be limming in the D1 T3 voters until scum is hit and reassess after.

[ChaosOmega]

my issue with scum!salsa is that, like... what the fuck is scum!salsa doing here? scum generally, like, tries to win. i think that everyone here is potentially working towards some sorta wincon for scum!themselves, except for salsa who seems to be all over the place. if whoever has experience with scum!her knows some of her meta and that this fits it, then by all means let me know, but i struggle to see just like, what is she trying to achieve here. and the fact that she was already next in the poe line and we've been mindlessly going down it and it's gotten us nothing but green flips so far is worrying

The only game I see for Salsa as scum is this one here, not much to go off of.

I know my alignment so I'm biased, but this seems like a waste of a lim. With the way D1 played out, it is extremely likely scum were on the T3 counterwagon. I know it's impossible both scum bussed because the only unaccounted iv votes are me and Margot, but even from the outside it should seem extremely unlikely. We should be limming in the D1 T3 voters until scum is hit and reassess after.

there's something that makes me uneasy about the "we should be limming in the t3 voters". the fact is that we've been doing that, we killed three people (if you count the vig shot) who were not on the iv wagon, and they all flipped green. and i'm kinda skeptical of this? like, how many green flips does it take for you to get worried about there being deepwolves?

We've voted out 1 person who was on T3 D1, T3 himself doesn't count because he was the counterwagon and also wasn't even voting iv. I just don't see a team here that makes sense without including Salsa.

[ChaosOmega]

I am also getting feelings of Salsa/Chaos as I was writing my open question to all. Chaos being unwilling to engage anything other than "Salsa is scum" feels odd to me, and could be going for the F3 win over either Datisi or Aristea

What do you want me to engage? I think the last 2 are Salsa/Datisi or Salsa/Ari, leaning more towards Datisi as the 2nd with recent posting. I don't think Margot is scum, I'm not interested in considering her slot.

And if your plan is to lim Salsa when I flip town and you think there's a chance we're paired, why not vote her first? You'll get another day of me, and I'll be forced to engage with slots other than Salsa.

[ChaosOmega]

I don't have time right now to go through everything, the jist of it is that Datisi seems to be pulling momentum away from Salsa, and the arguments he's getting in have a weird vibe, like the NAI thing with Salsa and the thing about read progression with Margot, I don't know how else to describe it other than arguing for the sake of it. It doesn't read like he's trying to figure out alignment, it's more of a gotcha thing and arguing semantics.

[ChaosOmega]

I don't think Margot is scum, I'm not interested in considering her slot.

why. why are you so dead sure on margot being town that you're apparently not even interested in *considering* her slot when we've been having townflip after townflip since the end of d1?

if someone wants to accuse me of rolefishing here: yes. yes, i am rolefishing, because if this is something connected to mechanics it needs to get out. and if it's Pure Reads, it needs to get out too.

It's not rolefishing, I claimed VT already. I just have a strong town read on her.

[ChaosOmega]

Town backup vigilante

I didn't want to mention it, because it makes scum's kills pretty much auto for the rest of the game, and it also means that if we suspected ssbm, I'm guaranteed to die the night we killed her, and would have just wasted the role

It's useless as soon as you have to claim it

That's exactly what I thought your role was. Can we please lim Salsa now?

[ChaosOmega]

That's exactly what I thought your role was.

i'm sorry, how did you manage to work that out? was there a super obvious crumb i'm missing?

and uh. town backup vigilante. so there's already 3 confirmed towns in the game, two ic's and our vig. (i'm assuming 1-shot.) so you're telling me, once scum manages to do the mechanically correct play and kill the 1-shot vigilante, their reward is... town getting a full vigilante? who is practically another ic since they can confirm themselves once they shoot? and it's most likely gonna result in town getting an extra yeet (since two vig shots = 1 extra yeet)? *and* even if scum knows of the backup vig, and even if they kill them the night after they kill the og vig, they're still fucked because the vig will be able to get the shot off during that night anyway?

i dunno. if this mess is somehow balanced, then scum has a literal metric shit ton of power to counteract the town.

and worse, it still doesn't explain where tf the nightkill went. nobody here is something like bulletproof and sitting on this info for shits and giggles, right?

It just fits too well with the setup imo. Mafia IC/Vig finder, we have 2 ICs and 2 Vigs.

I have a theory about the missed NK, but I don't think it's helpful to discuss.

[ChaosOmega]

I have a theory about the missed NK, but I don't think it's helpful to discuss.

well, you're not outing any power roles, and it doesn't seem like we have much else to talk about now, so...?

something like bulletproof and sitting on this info for shits and giggles

I'm assuming this is claiming BP. This was my theory, although I assumed it was Enchant. This makes me lean back to Ari being scum if she did pick up that you were vig and tried to NK you and failed.

[ChaosOmega]

No? Zero reason for you to claim that given that ssbm is not a suspect.

[ChaosOmega]

I think he's saying he's not happy, not that you aren't BP

[ChaosOmega]

I think Margot's lying?

To confirm Margot, you said your role name is "Town Backup Vigilante"?

[ChaosOmega]

UNVOTE:

[ChaosOmega]

Will wait for her answer, but it's rhetorical in a sense, I think she's lying regardless, it's just a matter of which part.

[ChaosOmega]

VOTE: MargotRosa

Backups don't inherit, universal backups do. This is a messed up fake claim, she's probably mafia universal backup, which would inherit.

[ChaosOmega]

The standardized Role PM for "Backup" describes the modifier as follows:

As a modifier on an active ability: Each night, but only once a P1 has died, (edit)
As a modifier on a passive ability: P2 once the role you back up has died (edit)
Example (modifying an active ability)
Welcome to game! You are a Town Backup Jailkeeper.

You have the following active ability:

Each night, but only once a Jailkeeper has died, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, that player will be protected from kills that night, but all their actions will be blocked that night.
You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Example (modifying a passive ability)
Welcome to game! You are a Backup Bulletproof Townie.

You are protected from kills that target you once the role you back up has died.

You have no active abilities.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

The standardized Role PM for "Universal Backup" describes the passive ability as follows:

As an unmodified passive ability: You will inherit the role of faction power roles who die, losing this ability in the process. (edit)
As a passive ability with a modifier: You will inherit the role of the nth faction power role who dies OR faction power roles who die on day n, losing this ability in the process. (edit)
Example (unmodified)
Welcome to game! You are a Town Universal Backup.

You will inherit the role of Town power roles who die, losing this ability in the process.

You have no active abilities.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Example (modified)
Welcome to game! You are a Town Odd Night Universal Backup.

You will inherit the role of Town power roles who die during odd-numbered Nights, losing this ability in the process.

You have no active abilities.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

---

anyway, that was such weird wording for a backup vigilante role pm, but i know that gypyx writes his own role pm's, and he's not a native speaker, so it wouldn't surprise me if the role pm was written clunkily. *however*, then i remembered that gypyx had had a backup in his games before. i rolled town backup roleblocker in mini normal 2180. and this is my role pm from that game:

Town Backup Roleblocker

Welcome ! You are a

Town Backup Roleblocker

If a roleblocker dies, you will become able to each night, target a player, that target will be prevented from taking any actions this night

Your goal is to eliminate every threat to the town, you may find the game thread here

maybe it's foolish to assume that gypyx would keep the consistency of the role pm from almost a year ago, but damn this looks much different than "You will Inherit the first [role] to die in your faction".

Town backup vigilante

I didn't want to mention it, because it makes scum's kills pretty much auto for the rest of the game, and it also means that if we suspected ssbm, I'm guaranteed to die the night we killed her, and would have just wasted the role

It's useless as soon as you have to claim it

Based on what the mod sent to me, I would assume that I only get one shot if that was your role:

"You will Inherit the first vigilante role to die in your faction"

Can't quote the entire message, obvs, but that's exactly what was sent to me by mod in my role PM

Also, for what it's worth, the "in your faction" bit was what made me wonder whether there was a mafia aligned vigilante in the game. Likely just a standardised part of role PMs based on others saying it's impossible

Margot, your only gate is Backup? You have unlimited shots once the Vigilante dies?

My gate is that I inherit any vigilante role from my (Town) faction. I took from that that I get the same modifiers.

Why wouldn't I have claimed universal backup then?

And I didn't quote. I copied and pasted. I figured that was ok

Yes. I am Town Backup Vigilante

[ChaosOmega]

Also, I'm not aligned with Margot, I would have coached her on this if I was. Your partner either doesn't have a lot of experience as well or just let you down.

[ChaosOmega]

Margot's partner is almost definitely Ari, just go back through Ari's ISO and Ctrl+F "Margot".

gg, drive home safe.

[ChaosOmega]

- Me waiting for Margot to be limmed so I can vote Ari tomorrow.

[ChaosOmega]

Not anymore. Margot scumslipped, and Ari makes more sense as her partner.

[ChaosOmega]

VOTE: Aristeia

V/LA until Monday

[ChaosOmega]

To be clear, I'm not frustrated that people are FoS'ing me. I'm frustrated that people seem so resistant to getting a player up against a wall d1

this feels townie to me

welcome to the site Margot!

: )

Currently my readlist is like this:

Sweeter than the first Dewdrops of the Morning:

Datisi

Foamy Ocean Waves upon the Sand:

Dwlee, Salsa, Kyouko

A Forest Blooming in the Springtime:

Margot, Mewtaph

The taste of ash in the air after a Great Fire:

Datsi, Not_Mafia, ChaosOmega

Fire and Blood:

T3, IV

votecount 1.14

T3 (5) :

Salsabil Faria ; Roden ; Aristeia ; Datsi ; Datisi

Exe-2

Innocentvillager (2) :

ChaosOmega ; Not_Mafia

MargotRosa (2) :

innocentvillager ; Mewtaph

ssbm_Kyouko (2) :

Dwlee99 ; T3

Not_Mafia (1) :

ssbm_Kyouko

Not voting (1) :

MargotRosa

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-10-01 20:18:31) or when a wagon reaches majority at 7 votes

announcements

Searching a replacement for Mewtaph

flavor

Spoiler:

There can be no hope in this Hell. No hope at all...

There is no reason why scum!iv doesn't vote for T3 in order to get t3 elimed over himself cuz yesterday was basically between t3/iv

putting T3 at E-1 is essentially hammering as NM is off the wagon.

I think Margot is obvtown since IV's reaction to her voting him was crazy

T3 makes the most sense imo as the bus vote on the initial IV wagon

I like my datsi/t3/IV solve

I think Margot/Datisi<3 are locktown atp.

I don't think Margot!scum makes 1192 about IV-scum.

Also don't think Datisi's push on IV and IV's reaction to Datisi make sense for S/S

I would really be shocked if Margot was red here.

i also kinda went through gamma and aristeia, and brain empty. i feel like my reasoning for ari!town is at least somewhat solid (at least until tomorrow until i hopefully gain more strength to actually read through what she was pushing against iv and the context around it), and gamma does look bad i guess, but idk. i'm not vibing with that read either. maybe the fact he townbinned quite a bit of people in that one post? i thought scum would've been using my absence to push me? maybe not necessarily. anyway, subject to change when he addresses whatever i asked him in the bigger post.

what are the odds the solve is something stupid like salsa/margot?

I really really doubt Margot is scum

she votes for T3 in 1147

instantly regrets it and unvotes 3 minutes later in 1148

I really doubt scum!margot does this performatively - she is re-evaluating in real time.

1149 she explains why she panicks.

Datsi shades her with:

1151 : "Interesting Margot shows this caution for T3 but not for IV"

1161: Her response is very good: "I was also less cautious because I thought IV was probably scum, whereas T3 is Town"

1192: is her big case on IV - she completely changes the tide of this game. Without this post I highly doubt IV gets eliminated on D1 and there's no way I think she does this to her own teammate.

enchant is conf town

I have fairly good reasons to townbin Margot and Datisi for how they interacted with IV on D1

Kyouko feels tonally like she is playing her town-game and she voted for IV on D1.

Chaos Omega has a good vote on IV, wanted to kill Datsi d1, also the general tone of his push on me just feels like he kind of believes that I'm actually maf

So my POE is just Datsi / Salsa at this point.

~.~

I think the scumteam has agreed to bus IV and Gamma got concerned that Margot was getting pressure, so they had Margot make that wall post condemning IV since he was essentially a dead man walking already.

I strongly disagree with this take

When Margot posts her "case" on IV at 1192

The VC prior to her dropping that case on him, the VC is

6 votes for T3 (e-1) - NM had just voted for T3 putting him at E-1 (moving his vote from IV to T3)
3 votes for IV

At this point IV himself had not yet voted for T3

He could easily hammer T3 at this point with survival as the excuse.

IV was definitely NOT a dead man walking.

Her case at 1192 made it 6-4 and then Roden unvoted T3 to make the danger of T3 getting elimmed disappear and signaled he would switch his vote to IV in the future which he later does.

[ChaosOmega]

Yes, but I'm not trying to convince you that you're scum.

[ChaosOmega]

chaos, if your point is "ari was townreading margot", i can easily point back at you, so like

I townread her, I didn't defend her like Ari did, especially in 1494/1543.

[ChaosOmega]

um...

why would I not defend my townreads?

Why defend her? I don't ever remember her in danger of being limmed until she slipped.

VOTE: chaos

now that we know the scum were hard bussing

there is only one other person alive who was voting for IV

The choice of words here is very deliberate. Ari kept saying she was town for her push on iv, now she wants to pivot to scum hard bussed, and is only checking based off of votes and not behavior. Also, we don't know scum were both hard bussing, the only person who would is the last scum.

[ChaosOmega]

Why defend her? I don't ever remember her in danger of being limmed until she slipped.

?

1543 literally quotes the person who thinks she is scum...

One person thinking you're scum != danger of being limmed.

[ChaosOmega]

the IC really is wasted on Roden

VOTE: t3

Iirr,

CO

was scumreading her on D3 because of this vote switch.

To clarify, it was her vote on 1117 I was more critical of, not this one.

[ChaosOmega]

I didn't see your questions, could you please repeat them?

VOTE: T3
The stuff you’re saying about him makes sense though

Don't know your and

Datisi

's history with

Aris

but the spoilers and the private interaction in between is making me paranoid

Is there any pocketing attempt going on somehow?

@Ari

, despite having solid crush on

Datisi

, how likely scum!you can/want to pocket him?

the IC really is wasted on Roden

VOTE: t3

Why? -_-

You only show up to post when someone mentions your name and then you spam a bunch of nonsense, it feels like you're following along/reading but only contributing when you feel threatened and your contributions don't even make sense.

@Ari

, did you play with

T3

before?

[ChaosOmega]

@Datisi, is Ari bold as scum?

i think so, yeah. i know she's generally anti-bus, last game she went all-in on protecting her partner in yelo. i definitely think that defending partner!margot the way she did this game is very within her scumrange.

Can you link that game?

[ChaosOmega]

I am certanly not person of analysis, but i think we should win this.

As long as Salsa not evil, we can just elim Aris>Chaos/Datisi. It's more problem of choice between Chaos and Datisi.

The fact that Salsa is comparing between Ari and me means I don't think there is a choice tomorrow if Ari flips town, I think I'm just going to be snap-voted. Don't think Salsa is scum here with her analysis.

[ChaosOmega]

however, something did catch my eye.

I'm assuming this is claiming BP. This was my theory, although I assumed it was Enchant.

why did you assume enchant was the bulletproof?

I figured it was part of a role that hadn't claimed, I thought Enchant might have been 1-shot BP backup IC.

[ChaosOmega]

VOTE: Salsa

PoE is Salsa/Ari/Datisi. I think scum have to have been off the iv wagon D1 given that there was a viable town counterwagon and the last 2 votes to hammer iv were himself and the IC. ssbm is claimed vig with no cc, I can't imagine a universe where Margot is scum here, and Enchant is mod-confirmed.

why did you open d4 voting for salsa instead of ari?

Because I opened D2 and D3 voting for Ari and got nowhere with it, so I figured I wouldn't beat my head against a wall a third day in a row.

[ChaosOmega]

@CO

, I think I have a question (or 2) for you in my wall posts, can you answer please?

I took a quick glance through and didn't see any, let me know what they are and I can answer.

[ChaosOmega]

Also, I'm not aligned with Margot, I would have coached her on this if I was. Your partner either doesn't have a lot of experience as well or just let you down.

Margot's partner is almost definitely Ari, just go back through Ari's ISO and Ctrl+F "Margot".

gg, drive home safe.

Which indicates me to be her partner, but why did you take

Ari

's name in this

coached

case? It's clear that she clearly an experienced player than me...

@CO

?

I don't know if it's clear Ari is more experienced than you. I know she's an alt, but I don't know of who. This was more so a point about me, I haven't rolled scum since I've been back, but I really focus on mechanics like this, I would have talked about it with Margot back in D1 when she softed about her claim.

Also, re-read back over pages 78-80 and look at Ari's reaction to everything. She doesn't push Margot at all on it, even though if she is experienced she should have known what Margot was saying was wrong. She keeps trying to push Salsa/Chaos as scum 1936/1944 and chides her for direct quoting 1946/1947/1951.

[ChaosOmega]

pretty disappointed chaos has basically ignored everything i've posted. will have my vote tomorrow.

Because the rest of the game is decided, everyone is just dragging their feet. The last 2 lims are me and Ari, nothing is changing from all this except maybe the order. I think Ari is almost definitely the last scum at this point, if you're dragging this out as scum, you're just slowrolling for no reason, Salsa's solving today has looked legit, and I just have a good feeling about Enchant. Don't know why I would be expected to put in effort into a static gamestate.

[ChaosOmega]

I assumed that she was a backup 1-shot vig and not claiming her gate. In that universe, yes, I can see 2 ICs, 2 1-shot vigs, and something to stop a kill is balanced vs IC/vig finder and 2 roles we don't know.

[ChaosOmega]

now, correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe that's called a joke?

That was in fact a joke.

[ChaosOmega]

[ChaosOmega]

If Ari is town, then it's Datisi. So if you could not vote me immediately tomorrow Salsa, that would be appreciated.

[ChaosOmega]

Well shit.

I'm assuming this is just a town loss at this point, but I'll go back through the game here and take a look at Datisi/Salsa. I don't have time to do it today, this will be a tomorrow thing.

[ChaosOmega]

Prod-dodge, busy at work. Leaning Datisi from my readthrough, but I'm not confident. Will make an actual post within 24 hours.

[ChaosOmega]

Datisi popping in thread 3 minutes after I say I'm finding them more suspicious:

[ChaosOmega]

I've never bothered to use it for that purpose, but that makes sense. Carry on.

[ChaosOmega]

Congrats scum. Apologies for replacing out, I broke my leg and wasn't able to provide any real attention to the game. Thank you for replacing me Koba, I think you made it closer to a town win than I would have.