Mini Normal 2211 || Summer Meet [Endgame]

[VFP]

Anything interesting I should read so far or can I coast today?

[VFP]

It's fine Lemons. I'm not going to be participating in making the game toxic.
But since you're here, what's what?

[VFP]

sorry, i thought it was customary to read the thread on a replace-in. it's 25 pages dude, just put in even a modicum of effort and form your own opinions instead of trying to tie yourself to me right out the gate

I'll read eventually.
So you don't have anything to say in the game after 25 pages?

[VFP]

wait did vfp really imply that someone else implied that suggesting someone actually read the thread is appeal to emotion?

What?

[VFP]

Hi Anya!

So is Bug trying to shade me or Lemons there? I don't quite understand?
It's not like the posts were far apart to be overly confusing and I don't see anything wrong with Lemons 624.
Be it wrong, since I didn't really piggy back off anyone's reads last game.

[VFP]

i say i hate day 1s
i just want to move to day 2

I like Gera here.
I too want day 2!

UNVOTE: Gera

[VFP]

Not yet. But I'm getting there!

[VFP]

Not tonight though as I'm going to bed.

[VFP]

VOTE: Osuka
PL at the very least.

T3 I don't have a town read on yet. If I don't have one by the time I'm caught up I'll probably be satisfied here.
Anya looks town. Scum Anya just looks more cautious.
Dunn I'm thinking townlean.

@T3

why is Osuka scum here? Or why more scum than Ivyeo or Anya?

[VFP]

Why

Just a hunch

I haven't read much of what Osuka has been saying but 646 strikes me more likely to come from town

I'm not personally a fan of policy elims, but unless there's something more compelling than my above reason to townread I will probably just watch this one

Probably.
I doubt my vote stays there but until I'm caught up I won't be sad on a lim there regardless.

UNVOTE: osuka
nvm osuka hs redeemed himself.
Yes I do towread gerains consciouslack of effort.

There's no point avoiding my question T3, we both know I'll want answers.

@VFP i doubt i actually upset you but if i did i apologize. it really irks me when folks ask to be "brought up to speed" before actually reading the thread. the piggybacking thing wasn't based on past experience with VFP, just a frustration with their attempt to discern my opinions before forming their own. i acknowledge their strategy was more probably just to see if my perception of the game thus far aligns with theirs once they do give it a readthrough. i'll summarize my opinions thus far (likely later today) because honestly it's something i've been meaning to do anyway

I think you're over thinking it. There wasn't anything offensive over it.
The reason I asked you was because you were there and I just wanted somewhere to start.
I'd rather read ISOs when replacing in rather than page order.

I like Egix for town.

[VFP]

@VFP can i ask what about gerain's 629 suggests a town mindset to you? do you think scum isn't this vocal about wanting to progress to the next day?

It's a mix of not caring while being voted.
Saying you want day 2 by itself is NAI. Saying it in response to a vote on you is just asking for attention.
I'll have to re read and confirm but I feel like Gera was very different to when I last played with him as scum when being voted. (however it wasn't day 1).
If I remember correctly he dodged conflict when being voted but again, I'll check this tonight to see if I'm right.

[VFP]

I'm not sure if I've played with Umlaut so I don't know if this is just standard play bit a lot of nothing in their ISO.
Maybe scum.

@Umlaut

Go over why Gera should be voted here?

[VFP]

I am actively trying to be different, you can see it in my last game too.

So I should consider you as scum then?

[VFP]

Regardless Gera doesn't just claim VT as scum when Osuka gives a pass there to be town read without even claiming.
Gera can be town.

[VFP]

gerain's return does not do much to convince me here. VFP, do you have past experience to suggest that gerain wouldn't claim VT unnecessarily? he even said he's deliberately attempting to vary his playstyle game to game, which is usually not a town play. though i do concede there's a certain boldness in admitting it outright

No, Gera didn't really get to claim in our game as they were in active from the game when pressure built (not fully sure if due to game or busy).
It's negative points to say the comment about playing different as it's LAMIST after I talk about the way Gera acts.
But claiming VT there suggests town. Since I've come back to the site, outside of a mass claim I've not seen scum claim VT, even more so with lack of pressure.
The best play as scum is to keep quiet on the role and let people think you are a PR from Osuka's comment. It's a better way if town too but at least it seems genuine.

[VFP]

I feel like T3 is trying to avoid me.

VOTE: T3
Talk to me about who's scum!
Are you scum reading Ivy or Anya?

[VFP]

bugspray is scum. They made a similar defenseI think in electocollege mafia when they were scum.

What defence?

[VFP]

this is the problem. how is lemons town in your mind that early in the game?

This is what Osuka did as scum last game but with Andre early game if I remember correctly. Just tried to buddy up by calling him town.

I can also see the defensive aggression as a way to make you back down. Osuka did the exact same thing to me when I was calling him scum, and just spent the entire game calling me scum and wasting a vote every day.

VOTE: Osuka

[VFP]

Yeah I don't understand the catch up

[VFP]

Rolestopper is generally more of a hinderence to town.
Majority games I've seen scum rolestopper over town, although I haven't seen it a great deal.

For town its basically a weak protective, so taking an additional nerf on being odd night seems to point more to balancing from scum sided.
It's something to keep in mind.

UNVOTE: Osuka

I'm just about to get my 1st covid jab so I'll post shortly after once I've checked something

[VFP]

Thats actually a fair point.
So Osuka looks okay in that case.

VOTE: Ivy
I think Ivy looks pretty bad.
2 players pushing Osuka for a slip is Human and Ivy. Human was an obvious derp moment as scum aren't going to realistically push that, even if PRs did have PTs.

[VFP]

do you have anything more substantial on ivy? her osuka push is weak but that alone doesn't really convince me.

Not really I just don't like the ISO.
It seems that Ivy is going for whats popular.

I'm waiting for some particular players to post right now, which will help read Ivy with their play.

[VFP]

It seems that Ivy is going for whats popular.

Then what do you think about gerain, Egix, and yourself?

Gera most likely town.
Egix I'm not sure on.

[VFP]

I feel like T3 is trying to avoid me.

VOTE: T3
Talk to me about who's scum!
Are you scum reading Ivy or Anya?

Have you revisited T3?

T3 is town.
I was more than satisfied.

Scum T3 would have just ignored me rather than answering.

[VFP]

I'm also game for Egix, but I still need to reevaluate him

Dunn I'm okay with voting. If Osuka is scum I could see Dunn being their buddy.
If my vote is wasted on Ivy I'll move it but I just feel like this isn't a bad spot to push.

To be fair, my not lim pool is only really you, Anya, Lemons, T3, Gera, and Osuka today.

[VFP]

Lol, let's pretend that didn't happen, Cook!

[VFP]

Just do Dunn with me

VOTE: Dunn
Okay.

@Ivy

- what's your thoughts on the Osuka claim and where do you think is a better option now?
Do you still think that Osuka slipped?

[VFP]

I was just checking that to see why Gera unvoted.

[VFP]

Gera while you're here, thoughts on Ivy and Dunn?

[VFP]

Lemons unvoted

[VFP]

VFP because I saw him online and didn't even bother to comment and that was a "HMMMMM" moment for me.

I received my covid jab Saturday and posted as I needed to. I haven't really played much since while progressively feeling worse.
I won't say I didn't see, I saw the hammer after I woke up and had nothing to add. You can see in enough of my games I wait for a flip unless it's late game.

[VFP]

I'm not sure if Lemons is scum here.

Egix / Uma / Ivy is where at least 1 scum will be.

[VFP]

what is this read? please explain

Well I already said that there was nothing in their ISO. The pass was being V/LA at that point.
But I don't see why any credit is given to Uma. The push comes at a safer part of the wagon, and I doubt that 4 quick votes were expected.

It's probably distancing gone wrong gone good.

[VFP]

Umlaut didn't have to do bugs like that. He was in the best position to go for my head there or just hammer Dunn

Unless you're saying it's Dunn, Umlaut, bugs.

Or you're scum trying to break gamestate.

I disagree, if Dunn is town and Uma knows then why not focus on Bugs?
Do you think that Uma went off thinking "That should be Bugs taken care of"?

Also, I think every scum game I have ever done I have either bussed or pushed my buddy as scum.
If I'm going to lim a scum member, it's going to be a fruit vendor, and not someone who posts less in the game.

[VFP]

Why am I in that list??

Because I don't town read you and I doubt that's an all town wagon.

[VFP]

Gone from "I expect one of these three to be scum" to "it's probably Umlaut" pretty quick there.

At least I said at least 1 scum.
And I also said you're probably scum day 1. Why does that not bother you? Or is this just some selective reading?

[VFP]

@VFP

, is your solve Umlaut/Dunn? Do you understand that you are third in line in the firing squad, and we sorting Lemons town here would mean you might be first-in-line depending on what gambit osuka might bring up. What's your counter-solve?

Not at all.
If this was my solve I wouldn't suspect others.
Uma is obviously only selective reading though, and getting town credit for something scum do.

And I'm not worried how things go. I think Lemons is town and Osuka can be scum.
Anya is town
And I'm pretty sure you, T3, and Gera are.

I won't buy that at least 1 scum isn't on Bug's wagon.
That leaves 3 players plus Egix for trying to look part of it.

[VFP]

Okay, would that be what you'll do today? Vote out osuka + try and solve for whoever between Umlaut, Ivyeo, Egix, Dunn? What if it isn't osuka?

I haven’t decided who I'm voting yet.
I don't think I want Osuka today if its avoidable because there's 1 reason I feel he could be town, and no I'm not going to say why.

You're talking as if I've spent 5 days straight saying x is scum and I'm not sure where this is coming from or why you want to instantly shut this down?
Outside of the vote on Bugs why is Uma town here?

[VFP]

you're trying to characterize me as close-minded when i'm trying to discuss your reads with you

Then I must be reading what you are saying wrong as it reads to me that I'm only pushing Osuka in your view?

[VFP]

i'm sensing desperation, VFP. that's not the mood i'm expecting after lynching scum on D1.

Desperation from who?
Also, I asked what makes Uma town here outside of the Bugs vote.

[VFP]

Osuka can be scum

osuka is your only scumread. how can I not think you'll vote him?

No? I have said and had Uma and Ivy in the plausible scumm pool since yesterday.

[VFP]

You're talking as if I've spent 5 days straight saying x is scum and I'm not sure where this is coming from or why you want to instantly shut this down?

this feels like frustration. is it not?

Of course I'm going to be frustrated if you're saying I'm doing nothing but pushing Osuka when Osuka has been on the lower parts of my comments today.

[VFP]

Ah I see. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. So today, you scumread Ivyeo, Umlaut and would probably vote between there — but you think he could be town and you don't want to say why?
How come you don't want to say why?

Stop role fishing.

[VFP]

Last game I was basically shut down for saying Osuka was scum.
I was right.
I was shot down for saying Anya was scum. I was right.

Then you wonder why you trying to shut me down here frustrates me?
Why is Uma town outside of the Bugs vote?

[VFP]

:O No! VFP! You're a PR?! :O

As I said, stop role fishing.

[VFP]

VOTE: InsidiousLemons

Anya and Umlaut are conftown to me.

Also Ivy, and ~maybe~ Egix96 as well.

You don't have Uma as confirmed town?

[VFP]

I'm not saying Umlaut is confirmed town here

So which one is it?

[VFP]

Human can't even answer why Uma is town but has them as confirmed town, but not confirmed town.

VOTE: Humaneatingmonkey

[VFP]

How many elims do we have before LYLO?

3 depending?

[VFP]

I feel like that Uma response and vote was in panic to Human fuckijg up there?

[VFP]

So without a Bugs vote, Uma is not town. But with a bugs vote, Uma is lock town.
Okay, that explains it all.

[VFP]

I feel like that Uma response and vote was in panic to Human fuckijg up there?

can you explain what this means

Well he doesn't respond until I'm pushing Human for his lie then just puts a vote on me. As if it will make me back down.

[VFP]

How many elims do we have before LYLO?

2 by my count, assuming 2 remaining scum who successfully kill every night.

9v2, miselim + NK > 7v2, miselim + NK > 5v2 (LyLo)

also i know it isn't intentional but i'm gonna remind you that "lynch" is not used anymore

No.
We have 11
Mis lim
9
Mis lim
7
Mis lim
5
Get right or lose.
If a kill is included.

[VFP]

i don't really see the logic there. umlaut is far from locktown for me but what is the scum utility of a vote there? i've never seen anyone back off of their argument because one person voted them and called their reaction fake

p-edit: @1294

Well the post and vote just felt so out of place from what has been said in the thread since.
It was like Uma is watching but didn't want to add anything to the mix.

[VFP]

so given that you didn't rolestop hem, your vote is back to making zero fucking sense

Wouldn't role stopping Human actually be in favour for town Human?
I'm guessing you're mixing up with roleblocker?

[VFP]

what's he supposed to say? you and hme are having a back-and-forth, and "the post and vote felt out of place" ≠ scum utility

But we wasn't having a back and fourth...
Me and Human were. And the timing of Uma to respond to 1 post and put a vote down seems forced.
The same point that I'm calling Human out for lying.

[VFP]

So I'm a PT cop.

Human is scum VOTE: Humaneatingmonkey

N1 I checked Anya who doesn't have a PT.

[VFP]

Regardless of what happens Human does not make it to LyLo.

There is nothing that Human can claim here outside of Mason, and if not killed tonight, just lim here.

Other than that, just let Anya lead.

[VFP]

I'm sure.

Did you crumb being Mason?

[VFP]

So you didn't crumb Mason?
I assume Choof didn't either then?

[VFP]

You don't strike me as a player to not crumb here.

I think there's 2 more scum.

This could just be inside knowledge, don't let Human make it to LyLo unless we have any evidence there are masons.
And by LyLo I mean with 2 scum left in mind.

[VFP]

this is a lie

I never claimed to have any information.
I was talking about the rolestopper role. It's in favour with my role to protect me while I still check.

Nice try though.

[VFP]

You don't strike me as a player to not crumb here.

I said I crumbed my partner.

And I'm sure you're very happy to have them claim with 5 players left and nonevidence of a Mason.

[VFP]

this is a lie

I never claimed to have any information.
I was talking about the rolestopper role. It's in favour with my role to protect me while I still check.

Nice try though.

[VFP]

I can post the same things over as well.
You're not surviving this.

The Osuka lim means nothing since he was a traitor.

[VFP]

this is a lie

I never claimed to have any information.
I was talking about the rolestopper role. It's in favour with my role to protect me while I still check.

Nice try though.

[VFP]

I'm rubber you're glue, bounces off me and sticks to you!

[VFP]

The last scum will be Ivy or Egix.

I'm going to guess Ivy.

Even if you lim me, lim Human then Ivy in that order.
Human is not flipping Mason.

[VFP]

And I'm not worried how things go. I think Lemons is town and Osuka can be scum.
Anya is town
And I'm pretty sure you, T3, and Gera are.

I think it's clear here that I targeted you.
I chose the wording on the other's carefully to show there's room for doubt.

[VFP]

oh interesting

dolphin what was that reason to think osuka could be town can you say it now

Because of the role design of a rolestopper and any sort of cop.
It prevents me being killed why I can still ensure checks are made.
This was my only thought on it and I wasn't pushing Osuka as town.

I think last game proved its not strange that I connect roles up.

[VFP]

how are your juicers going, vfp? coasting smoothly?

this guy here comes in and again immediately says he'll coast? am i not supposed to be unhappy?

I'm also going to point out that generally Osuka will know his buddies, and the informative is probably that.
Osuka doesn't just try this as S/S even more so without me knowing.

[VFP]

I though vfp softed motion detector there lol

Anyways, I am humaneatingmonkeys mason partner. I didn't crumb it but he did.

Interesting.
These 2 don't make it to the final 5 whatever.

[VFP]

There might be 2 scum left but probably not 3. VFP says it in such a way that implies he knows that even limming both of us will still have a final 5.

What?
I'm saying that you 2 don't make it to the final 5 alive.
Either scum kill you or you are tomorrows lim.

[VFP]

This was my only thought on it and I wasn't pushing Osuka as town.

I don't think I want Osuka today if its avoidable because

there's 1 reason I feel he could be town

, and no I'm not going to say why.

Yes, there's reason to why he could be town and there was plenty of reasons to why he could be scum.
I even said multiple times he could be scum.

This is just Human caught here as scum.

[VFP]

I though vfp softed motion detector there lol

Anyways, I am humaneatingmonkeys mason partner. I didn't crumb it but he did.

I won't confirm nor deny. It's not time yet.

Show the crumb.

[VFP]

I though vfp softed motion detector there lol

Anyways, I am humaneatingmonkeys mason partner.

I didn't crumb it but he did

.

I also find this very hard to believe, and T3 will know exactly why.
I cant say why but I can tell you it's a lie.

[VFP]

I am not mason. VFP had a very towny reaction and so did hem.

I don't buy it.
It looks like you wanted to save you're buddy, realised you're a particular player I know would crumb here and had to re call it.

[VFP]

Why would I claim if I'm scum with hem? If you didn't realize and hem gets limmed and is scum then that implicates me.

Okay that's a fair point. Human flipping scum would mean you are also flipped.
Human is still scum here though. The argument is so scum planned. Even to argue that I wasn't the NK when it was pretty obvious I would be a high lim option today.

[VFP]

There's no downside here to claim with 2 scum dead to 1 town.

If there's only 1 scum it clears Human / partner claim and either masons or me are confirmed tomorrow on the NK.
If there's 2, then of course Human is going to be worried about pulling this gamble as scum and not want to confirm it. If actually masons, it means the same, scum have to kill in me or the masons or there is scum confirmed in me / Mason claim pair.

The more I think it over, the more 3.5 scum seems wrong. The problem is, scum can win on 2 mis lims alone, and I feel like that is taken into considering when approving.
The only way possibly is if the traitor doesn't know the scum team, but I'm not familiar if that has to be known in normals or not for traitors?

[VFP]

Is the Mafia team the ones in the PT or could a second traitor be considered as the mafia team?
Basically, would 2 traitors know of each others names?

[VFP]

unless there are multiple mafia factions (exceedingly unlikely in a 12p) they would know each other's identities, yes. "all of the mafia team" would include the second traitor. but if there are 4 scum, that makes the scum:town ratio 1:3, which is ridiculously high especially when scum have PRs and are informed

Yeah thats what I'm thinking.
I'm not sure I favour 2 scum left. 2 mis lims and 2 NKs the traitors can just say "hello!" And its over, role dependent.

If we mass claim and town seem to be pretty stacked, then it's just the masons lying.

With this in thought if there's no mass claim, considering Humans claim is actually an option. However, no claim by 5 or death means lim 100%

UNVOTE: Humaneatingmonkey

[VFP]

What do you mean by "generally"?

Why did you target HEM?

I mean that this is how I've seen it other than 1 game, which wasn't a normal.

And because Human was just lining up lims yesterday. The fact Osuka was Human just meant scum believed Osuka was town. That was my mind set more or less.
Scum Human / Ivy isn't a thing though with these claims.

[VFP]

I just saw the FN claim.
I think this game is solved then.

Lim me.
Lim in the masons
If fake lim the other Mason, if real, it's just Dunn and Egix.

Both pairs have credit to lie on the roles.
Masons were just caught if scum
Egix is the lim if claiming VT.

Do it in that order as town won't have FN's and Masons

VOTE: VFP

[VFP]

My lim proves that we have 2 scum though.

[VFP]

It's possible that Dunn or Ivy is just a traitor covering for their buddy.
Ivy less so because I can confirm that. No PT means both guilty.

[VFP]

So tomorrow flip Humam before Ivy encase Ivy is a traitor.
Then if actually a Mason, flip Egix and its over.

[VFP]

No Dunn would be a traitor if you're actually masons.

[VFP]

I mean, you can go Dunn first, sure.
But there is never a PT cop, 2 masons and a FN.

There's also no suggestion here that anyone has even odd non con etc. The only other 1 to claim it was scum.

[VFP]

So you think 2 traitors 2 scum is the setup?

I don't believe that town has this much power to a role stopper traitor.and a fruit vendor. Call me crazy.

[VFP]

Egix is even-night.

And if you're a Mason. They are lying.
The only other person to claim restrictions was Osuka, who was lying.

[VFP]

Like Lemons said, if it's 4 scum, then it's immediately Elo in Day 2 if there is never a PT cop, 2 masons and a FN. So if three scum exists and only one remains, Dunn can't be lying about Egix.

Then it's probably just you if Egix is FN.
What do you think scum have to only be 2.5 and town to have all of that?

[VFP]

Day 1 traitor flip could mean 5 players in the town pool.
I guess that fruit vendor is pretty strong though.

[VFP]

VFP, I fucking promise you, we're masons.

Do you agree that you have to be the lim tomorrow if no proof of masons though?

[VFP]

Okay sorry! I was scum!
I hate playing as scum but I tried I guess!

I also wanted to make sure I was at 5 votes before just confirming it.

[VFP]

Yeah im pretty terrible as scum sadly.
I don't really like to fake scum hunt.

[VFP]

I was a rolecop.
I got Anya as the doctor night 1 and you as the Mason Night 2.

[VFP]

Yeah, saved you night 1
Could have been very different I guess.

[VFP]

Also the times I were absent from this game was mainly general reasons outside of MS.
I don't really like avoiding the thread in general as it's just not a fair thing to do.

So my apologies on the inactivity for the last week.

[VFP]

Yeah, saved you night 1
Could have been very different I guess.

After D1, I was intent on doing bugs > osuka > Lemons > VFP but I had to prioritize Lemons D2 because I want to see his reaction to pressure first.

Yeah I actually believed Osuka.
Fun fact, I actually tried to replace into your role but you beat me to it. Mason is always a top favourite for me

[VFP]

Why was I scum's favorite target? Have I not demonstrated unlynchability?

Bugs wanted you killed so I just went with it.
Lemons would have been my favoured kill N1 but Osuka being a rolestopper worried me.

[VFP]

Fun fact, I actually tried to replace into your role but you beat me to it.

Hope we can play another game in the future!

Yeah hopefully I'll be town then!

[VFP]

There was something in the Mafia PT that was borderline a rule break.
No ill intention from Andante but it's mods choice to remove or leave it in so I won't go into detail.

[VFP]

I told Cook to not end the game until you all surrender.

[VFP]

1 down, 7 to go!

[VFP]

If it helps Human, my side of the PT was mainly Mason hunting since that was our information given from Bugs.

I did at 1 point have Ivy as a traitor funny enough.
Osuka as rolestopper, you as Mason and Uma as Mason.

Pretty wrong overall I guess!
My goal on killing Uma was to reveal and clear you and Anya, then kill Anya followed by you if it were an option. But that fell apart pretty quickly on a VT flip!

[VFP]

Thanks for modding Cook!
And well played town.

Sorry Bugs and Osuka that I didnt do anything of worth.

[VFP]

Yeah that makes it a lot harder, for Osuka at least.

[VFP]

I know what gave away my Masonhood. What made you think Uma was Masons with me?

i know this is very personal, but osuka sucked this game. not only as a player, but as a person. honestly, re-evaluate your playstyle and attitude toward others. personal attacks should have no place in mafia.

I cant remember actually.
It may have been day 2 when I pushed Uma and you were against it.
Plus PoE

[VFP]

I'm not sure the execution changes too much, other than Osuka having better knowledge.
It would have been better if Ivy and Human didn't know each other were masons imo though!

[VFP]

I agree with Human, its not negative feedback, and I wouldn't mod on this site myself and I appreciate the effort that goes into these.
But I think a more common VC is key.
I'm not a player who likes to lie about my role after a hammer, but I had trouble making sure it was a hammer and not a fake hammer.

Again, not negative, just take it into the next game you mod.

[VFP]

Personally I love traitors being in a game. I just hate being scum when it is so.