For the record:In post 5413, fferyllt wrote:Bork and I were quite salty about the game design, and that was before we knew there was also a doctor on top of the RB, JK, Vanilla Cop and Friendly Neighbor.
In post 37, mastina wrote:For the record.You are mistaken; Normals are NOT MEANT TO BE PUZZLES for towns to solve. Normals being that isIn post 4877, Prism wrote:I will be livid if the setup is 3 contradictory PRs, a red herring investigative, and all goons.
An important part of setup design is making it a puzzle for town to solve and to reward them for correctly getting info/flips. One red herring is fine, but a normal setup that is exclusively red herrings so that the setup designers can laugh at the town is not. I will 100% blame the design and feel 0 remorse about it, this hypothetical setup should not have passed.explicitly bad designthat the NRG is actively trying to fix.
This setup was designed to besolved by dayplay, not designed to be solved by power roles; the town's power roles here are designed to exclusively force the emphasis to be on dayplay. One conftown, three killstoppers, one fairly useless but nominally-useful investigative (can catch scum fakeclaiming/can verify town claims, but explicitly cannot catch scum claiming vt). The town's roles, aside from the friendly neighbor, have nothing to confirm them as town and do little to confirm others as town and are overlapped by design.
It's a setup feature--not a setup flaw.
/rant
I stand by these assessments.In post 40, mastina wrote:(I feel obligated to mention: standard game balance in NRG is 3-4 moderately strong PRs against all goons, approximately. This game had 5 PRs, but most of them are notably weak: odd-night vanilla cop is almost useless, basically being just an extra PR for the sake of having an extra PR. Friendly Neighbor can conftown themselves, but only themselves. Roleblocker requires god-tiered luck to block a kill unless two scum die, and in this setup there's no way to distinguish between an rb blocking the killer, doctor protecting the kill, jk blocking the killer, and jk blocking the kill. The only two strong roles in the game are the doctor and the jailkeeper, but due to the ambiguity of what causes a kill to fail, some of their innate power is removed. Which I again would like to emphasize: this is a setup feature, not a setup flaw.)
This game was designed to be solved by dayplay in scumhunting for the town and the scum manipulating the town, not by nightplay (via the town solving with its power roles, and scum preventing this with their own). I stand by it being balanced--maybe slightly frustrating for the scum to deal with the heavy kill-denial, but balanced, and explicitly a game where if scum's nightkills didn't fail multiple times, scum could not be caught randomly via a surprise PR outing them as confscum and it'd be difficult to POE the game down. (Unless they fakeclaimed and DGB checked them, obv.)