Mini Normal 2181 | College Basketball Players | Game Over

[petapan]

ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ:･ﾟ KAWAII WAVE!!:„ø¤º°¨ ¨°º¤KEEP THE KAWAII GOING ¸„ø¤º°¨ ¨°º¤øº LETS GO KAWAII !¤¤º°¨¨°º¤øº¤ø„¸¸ø¤º°¨„ ø¤º°¨¨°ºL-E-T-S GO!„ø¤º°¨ ¨°º¤LET'S GO KAWAII !¸„ø¤º°¨¨°º¤øºL-E-T-S GO!¤¤º°¨ ¨°¤øº¤ø„¸¸ø¤º°¨LET'S GO KAWAII :„ø¤º°¨¨°º¤KEEP THE WAVE GOING •ᴥ•¸„ø¤º

VOTE: Prism

[petapan]

tbh i was too busy looking up the text to even see what anyone had posted

[petapan]

Where is Tammy. Why would she miss the shitposter reunion? Who could be responsible for this tragedy?

she has to wait to replace into a scum slot

[petapan]

Fiery can’t be scum here right?

If I were scum, I actually would be crying in the scum PT about now.

Nu uh. This player list is like the dream to draw scum into, the ultimate proving grounds.

Look at how tryhard our boy is.

it would be the worst thing actually

but the second worst thing happened to me, which is being town in this list

[petapan]

disagree tbh

[petapan]

disagree tbh

i use my seniority

damn

[petapan]

peta, if you bend the knee and call me senpai I might consider carrying you this game

only if you promise it's a princess carry

[petapan]

@mod, do you think his reasoning for voting me over others is really valid?

I'm not sure NPOM can answer that question, feels like it would breach the integrity of the game.

@mod sry disregard earlier @

I meant it to say @modpizza

oh, well in that case I don't really care about whether his reasons for scumreading you are bad or good, I thought your vote and OMGUS on him after the vote were bad and seemed fake

@mod, do you think his reasoning for voting me over others is really valid?

I'm not sure NPOM can answer that question, feels like it would breach the integrity of the game.

God I love you. I think you're the best mason buddy I ever had :') <3

I love the way we're implementing the mason PT strat -- lean into it in a light tone and scum will think it's a joke inspired idea from you, I must say

oh jesus

[petapan]

no time to answer now maybe later

[petapan]

Petapan, the sooner you get involved the better, you know.

a hundred posts later popping in to say i'm kind of active lurking but my willpower is not there

[petapan]

What do you think of skitter, peta?

i dunno. catchup post was meh everything after that i don't really have a problem with

[petapan]

In other news, if petapan isn't scum in this game, I'll sign up for twerking lessons.

should probably start filling out the papers. you're town though (but not for this)

[petapan]

didn't really see the problem with vax early but that means he's probably a good vote

[petapan]

You okay peta? You need me to call grandpa Regfan?

Chin up, fella. What do you think of Elements and Pooky so far?

page 7 readlist from elements is w/e but reasoning in 161 seemed decent

pooky is w/e so far

[petapan]

syr's posts kinda bad through page 10

[petapan]

through page 13 and absolutely nothing leaps out at me which means it's time for me to leave and go lie down

[petapan]

vax is a little townier i guess

reiterating dgb is town? i feel like not enough people have been saying that, and they should.

i can't really wrap my head around prism/bork at all

through page 20

[petapan]

i'll swing a stick at it

VOTE: benhalkum

[petapan]

the vax read mainly sticks out as nonsensical, going from "Originally had said they felt town" as "nothing had jumped out scummy" but somehow after reading, he's null and "cautious on lack of substance provided"?

[petapan]

Going to assume Peta is potentially on a scum team with sy or goof.

Both of them a dropping crumbs but not commiting town post. With the vote on me, it feels like the last game I was in.

I had called it clear someone was scum and they had their scum teammate vote me.

Or I could just be seeing things not there, who knows.

Either way Peta is now scum lean fully for me but still not comfortable enough to vote until I feel better about the other two.

explain your vax read instead of OMGUSing me

[petapan]

They're just bread crumbing.

What role am I breadcrumbing???

Obviously not bread crumbing as in a role, but in your actions.

I've already voted for you as I'm confident I'm right. I don't feel the need to engage any more.

Either others will see your actions as scummy and vote also, or I'll get coted out, flip green, and they'll go back and see where they should have voted for you.

:shrugs:

hey, hey. explain how you thought vax was town, but downgraded him to a null read after fully reading the thread? i'm not going to ask again

[petapan]

Hello peta how would you feel about killing pooky today?

no pooky made me promise not to bus him on day 1

[petapan]

Hello peta how would you feel about killing pooky today?

no pooky made me promise not to bus him on day 1

yea I kinda thought you might not wanna vote him

s u r p r i s i n g

for serious, not where my attention is right now, not sure about him, saw one minor thing from him i liked. let me do my thing first

[petapan]

saving me to misvote in ELo

[petapan]

Yeah. Literally plumbing a new toilet here so... Not today. Doubt vote is gonna be impactful anyways. Too much orbit around pooky-pizza-peta axis.

i had not yet decided to put in the effort to rereading both of you to decide if i understood the vote

[petapan]

don't really like peta. I think the whole angle on Ben's trajectory on vax in 674/716 is pretty weak and overblown

Yea.

@peta What are you looking for here?

the original explanation was in 660 which i feel is pretty straightforward? i don't understand how he went from defending you when there was a semblance of a wagon on you to deciding you were null after supposedly reading fully

[petapan]

tbh the most suspect thing about her is that she hasn't spoken to me but i assume that's 'cuz i've lost my shine

[petapan]

Yeah. Literally plumbing a new toilet here so... Not today. Doubt vote is gonna be impactful anyways. Too much orbit around pooky-pizza-peta axis.

i had not yet decided to put in the effort to rereading both of you to decide if i understood the vote

okay i iso'd both of you and have thoughts but want to let my current misadventure shake out first

[petapan]

don't really like peta. I think the whole angle on Ben's trajectory on vax in 674/716 is pretty weak and overblown

Yea.

@peta What are you looking for here?

the original explanation was in 660 which i feel is pretty straightforward? i don't understand how he went from defending you when there was a semblance of a wagon on you to deciding you were null after supposedly reading fully

Well, you never got an answer, where is your head at now?

would it be any different? i'm not expecting him to post right away


buuuuuuut i kind of want to jump to a conclusion on the other thing now this morning since i don't want to sit around waiting

[petapan]

cabd i'm thinking i should probably sheep you

[petapan]

cabd i'm thinking i should probably sheep you

In what regards?

your vote

[petapan]

i clearly meant where it currently is, weirdass thing to say

[petapan]

i did the iso and i think i see it

[petapan]

but even if i didn't see it, right now feel better off following someone else's lead

[petapan]

VOTE: fferyllt

[petapan]

I think you might be mistaking the forest fire for the trees.

I'm not feeling like games and puzzles atm.

My vote was to gauge reactions, not as a permanent resting place. Its current position is entirely because i forgot to post a naked unvote tag.

And peta's sheep of it is... awkward for me.

then i inception'd myself into believing something was there

[petapan]

oh xenoblade 2 ended. you have a track record of good reads recently, my reads are shit rn, if you were on to something i was absolutely going to follow it this game and not hem and haw like the last few times

[petapan]

This game is no xenoblade. I don't have a tenth of the read conviction here yet.

okay

hard to gauge that from a naked vote, thought there was something there, still might be something there but if it's not a confident read then shrug

[petapan]

I mean I wanna hear what you scrounged up

a little passive? heavy on conversational interactions but w/o a strong sense of purpose to her posting. didnt get a feel of trying to figure things out, not enough reads for my liking

[petapan]

i think you're just jealous we don't have a complicated meta dance like the cool kids in this game

[petapan]

am i supposed to have said anything about you?

i i wouldn't say cautiously. i was slow to start because i was overgamed and my confidence is shot so i've not had a lot to offer readswise. currently my vote is in the awkward position of being a sheepvote with no shepherd

[petapan]

also was probably shitposting in marathon games

[petapan]

I'll revisit you when I actually get through your content fully as opposed to halfassed skim.

that is important context

[petapan]

Even in Xenoblade it felt like your opinions had a bit more bravado to them, even if they were only one/two words.

i mean that game you said "every time someone says something towny or scummy you come into the thread and say the exact opposite", so

I think the only one that struck me similarly this game was your "disagree" on Pooky's lockscum DGB, which I found out of place but I don't always understand you.

within context i felt he was saying she was scum for that post, i felt that her scumreading that post from cabd was in-character and a believable read for her to have. also this was page 5.

[petapan]

I know better than anyone here that you're not at the peak of your motivation and confidence right now. I'm glad to see that you're building yourself back into the game.

But if you're scum, I'm gonna getcha

i'm 100 feet outside my scumrange already

no one will believe me on that but that's okay

[petapan]

I'm super tired and my back hurts from carrying you presidents. I'm content to be town and one of you fucks can effort today.

not it

[petapan]

Even in Xenoblade it felt like your opinions had a bit more bravado to them, even if they were only one/two words.

i mean that game you said "every time someone says something towny or scummy you come into the thread and say the exact opposite", so

I'm not sure what your point is here, but:

1) I don't feel like this is a fair treatment of our overall interactions that game
2) That comment was both very lighthearted and made literally like 90 pages into Day 1 iirc, well after the vast majority of your posts/reads were made

my point is that if you're wondering why i'm not playing with more bravado, well, it should be obvious. (this also isn't a game where gatecrashing and shoving people really hard is likely to produce much results - with a few exceptions)

and i wasn't trying to be mean to you or act like i was offended b/c you were

right

to say it to me, it's just part of why i'm hanging back more

[petapan]

I don't think I'm communicating effectively what I'm saying here peta, but I'll revisit it after I eat+finish reading

maybe but i'm determined to not give you whatever you want

[petapan]

with a few exceptions

those being?

is this important to answer right now

[petapan]

with a few exceptions

those being?

is this important to answer right now

[petapan]

Well I’m just saying if it’s not gonna do much with most people but it will with some isn’t it a better use of our time to push those people it’s likely to have an effect on?

that's what i

was

doing with ben before i

thought

it would be a good idea to sheep cabd only to make a fool of myself

and since i'm sort of blowing up my spot just by saying this, let's go all the way and say, seeing him pretty much selfdestruct in chosen mafia, figured he'd be easy to pressure to get a reaction out of, so that was exactly why i voted him (although i did and still do have some issue with the formulation of his reads). i think the way he responded to me was maybe townish for him? but of course then i looked at the game skitter linked and he's decently capable of emulating his town meltdown as scum, apparently, so even that read is shaky now

[petapan]

I remember in smoke-filled, you said something that was less of an "I'm town" and more of an "I'm not out of my scum-range, sucks to be you", early on.

you're gonna love the post i made a little while ago

[petapan]

I'm starting on page 1. dealwithit.

is there a particular reason you're going to this now?

[petapan]

I'm starting on page 1. dealwithit.

is there a particular reason you're going to this now?

I was going to have to start around page 20 anyway because that's about where I completely lost the plot. The early game's enough of a blur that I decided to go ahead and completely reread. And I feel like I haven't been clear enough about how I'm processing the game so as well as reading it and processing it, I'm posting about the bits that have contributed/are contributing to my reads.

Given the bits I've misfiled or didn't pick up on completely, doing it this way is even more beneficial than I expected.

Is it being in the thread annoying?

no, i just wanted to know why you were doing this at this moment from that particular starting point

on a related note UNVOTE:

[petapan]

Were you voting me?

y-yeah

[petapan]

I'm rather surprised nobody sans vax/skitter is even like remotely reacting to me v prism on the last few pages in lieu of whatever the fuck most of this page is

it's very boring tbqh and i don't find myself wanting a part of it. i thought you looked kind of town at one point way back but can't remember why. i know prism can get way in the weeds picking at details that just seem irrelevant to me because i don't think like he does, him going aggressive is always going to put me on edge but i don't necessarily find it overtly scummy, i was hoping to figure him out from how he was handling me

[petapan]

VOTE: pooky

[petapan]

i've seen enough

[petapan]

Respectfully Peta this feels like you know I'm town and want no part of it.

i don't

know

that you're town but i know the case against you isn't very good

[petapan]

Very likely Skitter, with a medium chance of beefycheese meatballs.

Beyond that? No clue. Bork was my scumread and who I was pushing well before his response wall, and I wavered when I realized he had no incentive to pick that 1v1

hey you should actually read me, figure out i'm fucking town, and then we can talk

[petapan]

then try harder. the burden is on you to find me as town and not the other way around. i will not explain further.

[petapan]

i mean that was a joke, it's a silly proposition obviously. but i'm definitely not approaching the day like i would as scum and i could do a big self-serving rant about it but thats not the important thing in this game right now

i don't get why you think i'd vote you for the unvote?

[petapan]

This is why the lukewarm/very safe late entry worried me.

that is valid and ties back to a post i made very early, bc i'd likely be frozen in this game as scum but i'm actually trying to work through the disconnect and get back into the game


although there's a chunk of pages i still haven't really commented on that i need to get through

[petapan]

Town
=====
Elements
Mod Pizza
DGB
Vaxkiller
benhalkum
petapan
Syryana
Pooky
fferyllt
Cabd
borkjerfkin
skitter30
=====
Scum

Briefly commenting/updating on a few others I haven't really touched on:

-I liked Mod Pizza out of the whole skitter interaction. There's a world where he thinks engineering a 1v1 is the way to get a townread but I never really got that impression, especially when he made it clear with his unvote that it didn't mean a townread. Hard to tell w/o knowing Mena but I'm fine slotting it as town for now.

-DGB I mostly just liked for 587 but all of the 500s are solid imo. Her interactions with me are incredibly annoying but not wrong and not scummy.

-peta is going to hate being lower than benhalkum. Peta, your posts w/r/t DGB and liking Elements' 161 were good. I'm a bit skeptical of how safe your questioning is of ben but you're not wrong to press here. He's higher than you because of how different the tone is from the game skitter linked. IDK fella you're not really scumtelling but there's nothing you've done here that you wouldn't do as scum either.

-ffery/Pooky/Syr/Cabd zone I have no fucking clue. ffery's only +town read to me really is their Rube Goldberg on Pooky. I am very puzzled by how their scum model based off 2-3 deadthread posts about how scum needed to be more proactive points to me town but whatever. I don't like Cabd avoiding weighing in on me/bork entirely, I can see it as town but given that he's significantly more familiar than I am with bork it's strange that he's dodging it entirely.

i agree let's kill skitter and cabd

[petapan]

He's higher than you because of how different the tone is from the game skitter linked.

mind going a little loner on this? i wanted to push him for a reaction but couldn't get a real good bearing and if you have more insight on it i'd like to hear it because i clearly don't parse the words as well as you

i'm good with dgb and vax town, at a glance agreed with mod pizza as well based on what i saw but i'd want to go back because that's stil that chunk of the game i haven't processed. not there on elements but if we start to agree on townreads i think this is pretty workable

[petapan]

*a little longer

[petapan]

I know better than anyone here that you're not at the peak of your motivation and confidence right now. I'm glad to see that you're building yourself back into the game.

But if you're scum, I'm gonna getcha

i'm 100 feet outside my scumrange already

no one will believe me on that but that's okay

Ha! I found it!

How are you feeling about Prism?

read this page and guess

[petapan]

mind going a little loner on this? i wanted to push him for a reaction but couldn't get a real good bearing and if you have more insight on it i'd like to hear it because i clearly don't parse the words as well as you

Sure, it's this game

Ben's a lot more careful to explain his reads here (ex. 161, which follows 147) and generally has a much more assertive presence in his reads, especially with how he sells them to others. (633's language about his own alignment sticks out to me)

#683 isn't right about DGB imo but is pretty natural, the only post of his this game that gave me the same vibes as the scum one was #705.

somewhat notable that vote was a bus vote, which are always the easiest to explain, but point taken his posting feels less constructed here. still really need him to answer my question about his progression on vax (if he ever comes back to this game) because i may have worked myself into a shoot there, but i think i'm probably okay with him being outside the kill zone for day 1, i think.

[petapan]

No even a tiny bit on board with eliming Cabd.

i'm putting the entire cohort in the poe and you can't stop me

[petapan]

No even a tiny bit on board with eliming Cabd.

i'm putting the entire cohort in the poe and you can't stop me

I'm pretty good at standing in doorways. Sometimes not the doorways I should be blocking. :/

I feel confident about this one.

you're gonna be standing in the door to the trash compactor

[petapan]

okay i'm back inside my scumrange

[petapan]

I wish unwnd got a few more votes for giggles.

you misfired again

[petapan]

2. I'm not in any danger of being mislimmed this game

have to be town to get misyeeted

[petapan]

why did i go from a scumlean to a townlean?

[petapan]

further, 1118 seemed to imply some dislike of prism's unvote but you still have him as town so i'm wondering if i misunderstood that or not?

[petapan]

okay. two more questions. why did ben go to scum for you, and why did cabd go from scum to unsure to a slight townlean for you?

[petapan]

Test was negative!

Same!

congrats to everyone

[petapan]

VOTE: prism

???

[petapan]

peta you get nothing, not even a hello

your tsundere act won't hold up forever

[petapan]

i will try to dig into the weeds of your argument

[petapan]

love you too

[petapan]

I don't like that cabd has been cutting in at low impact times and staying away at high impact times. To even get him to comment on prism was like pulling teeth and that was at F-2.

good take

[petapan]

R u going to go after cabd peta?

i don't really expect most people here to make themselves obvious as scum but if they haven't made themselves i'll go after them especially if they're playing like they think they have a free pass

[petapan]

But I do have a free pass.

i know but it won't stop me from being annoying

[petapan]

She might just not be feeling as much into this game as the other times I've played with her.

she's in a worse slump than i am and i thought her "not this shit again" response to you scumreading her looked town.

[petapan]

she's in a worse slump than i am and i thought her "not this shit again" response to you scumreading her looked town.

the last time I scumread her was death curse and she was scum

i've never scumread her when she was town as far as i remember so far this year.

so if anything that comment is scum indicative to me

duly noted. have felt like the way she's been going after people is believable for her and she, like me, would rather not have a game with all these people who use so many words and instead we just grunt and throw rocks at each other (though of course that's not a yowntell). i'm treading with caution there but can't say more.

[petapan]

Serious question:

Should I wad up that reads list and start over?

these past few pages have been productive for how i feel about you and a few other people

[petapan]

UNVOTE:

[petapan]

Cabd don't leave me here sinking into a pool of self doubt.

But like, I'm here but I'm avoiding the thread because it got all high impact again and I'm only allowed during low impact zones.

Yeah true or not I don't see how this is AI. But a lot if the discussion in this fine game has nothing to do with alignment.

hi, how's it going? just want to ask - earlier in the game you made a bet i was scum, presumably because i wasn't posting much at the time. that seems to have gone away in your recent posting. is that just because i said you were town, or what?

[petapan]

the more people post the more i wanna hear answers from ben that i suspect i'm never gonna get

[petapan]

What do you think of skitter, peta?

What do you think of skitter, peta?

i dunno. catchup post was meh everything after that i don't really have a problem with

in hindsight if i were actually reading the game critically at that point in time a lot of the arguments she was making against pizza man weren't good

[petapan]

oh wait just saw the elements thing was a typo that changes my view? (maybe?)

[petapan]

I'm not feeling v motivated for this game atm

did anything interesting happen?

imo yes but you're gonna have to want to dig a little bit

[petapan]

is my take on things important

[petapan]

epic

[petapan]

I woke up wanting to vote Cabd.

i was debating whether to go into a spiel on this based on what elements said a little while ago but i had stuff i wanted to read up on and try to actually solidify my reads based on recent happenings first

[petapan]

cabd - as I kept reading I tried to think of why scum!cabd would play this way. Nothing ponged me as particularly scummy or fake so the read migrated.

since we're here now, though - on first glance, yeah, a reasonable thought - why would cabd play like this as scum? doesn't make sense. (as an aside i think element's explanations for her reads have been reasonable, overall comfortable vibe). but then the thought comes - there's plenty of reason for cabd to play like this as scum. i don't have a picture in my mind of how he'd play as scum, exactly (and i won't be doing homework on the subject), but you don't get to go on and on in conversations about "apathy as a scum toll", play like he has, and not look suspect when the gamestate is like *gestures broadly* this

[petapan]

I've been kind of gut checking your play against Empire and Regfan for what are probably horrible reasons,

they're all clowns so it fits

[petapan]

lmfao

[petapan]

i'm the secret character

[petapan]

i managed to figure out that one. not hard

[petapan]

Re cohort, you joined it, like it or not, when you drew Assassin.

it's been a pleasure

[petapan]

Re cohort, you joined it, like it or not, when you drew Assassin.

it's been a pleasure

You said something about putting the whole cohort in the POE. Is that a thing you're genuinely thinking? Vibing off the smoke-filled rand? Something else?

at the time i was entertaining it b/c i was willing to ride along with prism and go with his townreads, didn't feel like any of you were ~obvious~ town. since then you've gotten more town, feeling bork is town off recent things which is why i'mstill needing to revisit the weeds there. part of that is theorizing on how this game should be played that i can get into later

[petapan]

also would say that i understood how your read on the bear developed, because i was thinking similar, but when you poked him doubts went away there

[petapan]

at the time i was entertaining it b/c i was willing to ride along with prism and go with his townreads

I feel a lot better about Bork/Skitter but am currently sidetracked by ~actual work~

Better as in more confident

My other townleans are very fuckin dart throw

fair's fair, we have time to come to a decision still, some shuffling is good, part of the process. to be expected here. want to get into this later like i said.

[petapan]

at the time i was entertaining it b/c i was willing to ride along with prism and go with his townreads

I feel a lot better about Bork/Skitter but am currently sidetracked by ~actual work~

Better as in more confident

My other townleans are very fuckin dart throw

fair's fair, we have time to come to a decision still, some shuffling is good, part of the process. to be expected here. want to get into this later like i said.

i might have significant issues with the vaxkiller townread, although the recent boredposting from him is somewhat compromising my thoughts

[petapan]

Peta what is your prism read?

town

@peta, im not so much bored as kinda lost.

Well, I guess you could say im bored too, but it's because I have no direction.

right and that's townish but otherwise you're scummy. not elaborating so don't ask.

[petapan]

Peta what is your prism read?

town

that's what I thought. you two have your own dance steps and it's been interesting to read. I also thought you'd be out there pushing against this wagon more.

there's a big gap in our history and we're still in the process of learning about each other. i was pushing against it in my own way, the pooky snap vote was part of my initial expression of dislike to it, but the proponents of the wagon have mostly not given me much to interface with. but for the record i very much do not want a prism elimination

[petapan]

I'm not going to wall about his scum game.

My ego demands this; although tbh it's all old and dusty and probably not true any more.

never know til you get that call. i sort of dread the pressure it would entail though.

In that case peta it's your job to convince me I'm wrong on bork

he made a meme, prism, a meme (don't take that seriously). i'll trrry to get into it but having looked it over this feels like a theory-based disagreement rather than anything substantive and his bewilderment at what you've been hitting him with doesn't ring untrue, his other takes on the game a while back felt believable, the thing about how cabd reacted to a wagon springing up on you was similar to my thoughts about it

[petapan]

Do you see some benefit to not discussing/pushing such a read, or more broadly discussing the few others you hint at here, that I'm missing?

I've talked about them already.

modpizza I haven't because I said I would give it time.

can't find any reference to you saying you'd give mod pizza time, also not sure what this means exactly. how much time does it need? haven't we had a lot happen already?

[petapan]

@DGB

Cabd don't leave me here sinking into a pool of self doubt.

But like, I'm here but I'm avoiding the thread because it got all high impact again and I'm only allowed during low impact zones.

Yeah true or not I don't see how this is AI. But a lot if the discussion in this fine game has nothing to do with alignment.

hi, how's it going? just want to ask - earlier in the game you made a bet i was scum, presumably because i wasn't posting much at the time. that seems to have gone away in your recent posting. is that just because i said you were town, or what?

don't believe i got an answer to this

[petapan]

im so good at pagetopping without trying

[petapan]

I think vax trying to push prism as the compromise vote at this point in the day is v wolfy unless prism is scum in which case it’s v towny

what are your thoughts on the rest of vax's iso

[petapan]

please don't fuck this up now with something stupid

[petapan]

i was going to make a post about how this game is gonna be a grind and about whose will holds up, but...maybe not right now.

[petapan]

nice seeing you, wish it were happier circumstances. imo your slot has already obvtowned so no pressure on that end, just find the bad guys

[petapan]

What? He clearly townread syr. Your posts and Tammy's posts were obvscum but syr shone bright enough anyways.

please tammy is only obvscum when she replaces into a slot

My instinct is that we should just gladiate it out and vote in me/bork today. Going to be crushing morale wise if we eliminate a town but this is unsalvageable from my perspective.

I'm not really feeling motivated right now, and predict lower energy days to come, which doesn't help.

that kind of thing is how towns lose games like this

[petapan]

i reread the 20-29 of this game with an active mind, and it's as thorny as i remember, not easy to get through. but it does clarify my view that the mod pizza slot is town. also reminded me of syr's swagger in those pages, which i liked.

[petapan]

that kind of thing is how towns lose games like this

I think you're underselling how toxic this is, at least from my perspective, for one day let alone 2 or 3. I'd rather just be wrong and get it sorted or be right and do us all a public service.

I'm one vote though, not seven, and I don't really mind just disappearing for 3 days to a week until I get my energy back either.

do i have to make an impromptu version of the speech i was gonna give?

okay. throwback to 1451.

menalque said something early in the game about how he expected the most likely outcome of this game to be a town win. i don't really agree with that in principle. experience tells me, in a "stacked" game, the outcome is often a scum win. people get lost in ego battles, get frustrated, do dumb things, and eliminations get pissed away on people who have made themselves annoying. it becomes harder for the town players to find each other. but most of us knew what we were getting into when we signed up for this. this was not going to be a simple game. the players here know what they're doing. everyone here is at least capable of broadcasting the surface level appearance of being town. most of us aren't an easy elimination. benhalkum and vaxkiller, while good additions for the sake of variety, so that this game isn't one big pile of egos, are players of the puzzle box, mysteries to be solved, rather than beacons who make themselves obvious one way or the other. this is not likely to be a game where scum make themselves obvious and everyone converges easily. you're not going to catch people easily. instead, you just have to separate people into two groups - who has been town, and who has not been sufficiently town. we gotta figure each other out that way. it's still not going to be easy. it's going to be a wrestling match. you have to be willing to grind it out. it's going to be a struggle, and it's going to take time. the question becomes whether the town players lose their will to hunt before the scum players lose their will to maintain the facade. because i do truly believe the act of pretending to be town gets more mentally taxing and harder to maintain the longer time goes on. but that doesn't matter if the town players distract themselves and just end up fighting each other.


all of this is to say that i, and at least a few other people, i believe, don't really buy into your 1v1 and in my personal view insisting on it getting resolved is detrimental to the town wincon. i can try to go over your arguments and hopefully reach an understanding there but i want you to be willing to like...broaden your horizon, i guess?



on a somewhat related note i don't particularly have people arranged in an ordered list in my head and i think i need to do that.

[petapan]

I really don't know how to feel about that speech in that you definitely know you're presenting 0 new perspective to me there. It makes it feel very performative, but maybe you just want to drill correct practice into my head for its own sake.

I know this pretty harsh when I know you're trying to give me a peptalk/set me on the right course sorry.

this was not directed at you in particular, it was something i had been meaning to say in general during the course of today. i wanna get some solid townreads and win this game and not have people eat each other alive. i think that can be done.

on a somewhat related note, when i snap voted pooky for voting you, you replied back to me that he was at a dead null. is that still the case for you?

[petapan]

np cya

[petapan]

I wasn't surprised to see peta make that post.

I was incredibly surprised to see it, peta is a man of very few words that range from off the cuff to very carefully selected.

He definitely knows it's time to kind of return the favor now that he's convalesced while I'm on the downswing but that post was very, very long and preaching to me principles that I'm typically the first to espouse. It did not feel like a genuine attempt to talk me specifically but instead make a global appeal, which he seems to have kind of admitted to.

My very first instinct on reading it was a hard scumclaim but I'm not going to follow that.

glad to see you understand so little of my scumgame, friend

If he's going to try and talk me specifically off the ledge that's fine but everything about that post says that its target was a general audience and that he's fine letting my beliefs stick.

no? i indicated wanting to talk you down from this. i haven't really gone into the specifics but i don't support voting bork and i definitely don't want a wagon on you to the point i would probably counterwagon a lesser townread

Ffery I skimmed vcs why was there a vax wagon he looks town

is he, tho?

Syr/Peta/Skitter?

Is that crazy?

i would like to think that if i were on a team with skitter, we'd be playing better right now. (but maybe not. that discussion would be a sidetrack right now, though)

Peta moved up a tier or two since my reads list.

I'm at the enviable point of having no scumreads.

now that's concerning

Regarding peta, I didn't like that big wall about the power of friendship. One distinctive thing I remember from playing scum with peta was how good he was at manipulating emotional responses to get his way. He's probably my weakest read of the three, but it is tricky to put more sense to it.

explain to me the benefit of making that post as scum? what i was saying was that we should be trying to win the game via assembling strong townreads rather than simply hacking away at whoever is acting strangest, and also saying i wanted to avoid a 1v1 i saw as destructive and unnecessary.

i'm not even saying you should townread me for that post (because that would be fucking stupid), but trying to get townread via a game health post at the cost of taking 2 potential mischops off the table by breaking up a TvT fight (as you postulate with you scumteam guess) would be exceptionally poor strategy as scum, considering i laid out how scum wins this type of game in that post.

In a game like this it seems most like an arms race amongst everyone to look as town as possible. It's why it's trickier to grab scum.

what i said in that whole post is that people here are good at hitting the surface level indicators. no one's going to be obvious in that regard.

With the new sample set how does that effect your read on him here?

It's difficult to really apply lessons to this one, here he is being a lot more careful because of the table.

2033 is very bruteforce in its tonal play because he knew he could get away with it. He's intentionally being overly aggressive in 2033 to exploit the lack of experience of the table and leverage probably the biggest strength chat mafia players have over forum ones: having tone down to a science.

I would have instantly read 713 and AFK voted-but he would have never made 713 with me there.

okay maybe you understand my scumgame a little bit more than i thought...



...bastard

[petapan]

scummy quote stripes, boom

torn between the desire to catch up and comment on the stuff i wasn't able to post about while i was out and entering the current vax discussion given i've had concerns i was holding on to

[petapan]

tough one. i've been there a lot

[petapan]

Can someone point out to me any discussion of things that can be alignment indicative in the past couple of pages?

do you mind explaining at some point why you're scumreading me less?

[petapan]

So this gets to be cobra kai carry with a side dish of Cabd. Pairs well after a main course of Cabd carry with a side dish of cobraleaf.

raising my eyebrow at this post (the creepy avatar does not help)

ffery/skitter can you lay out those townreads on peta minus his the state of the union address

address its value as needed but anything else

honestly it was very much just that one post, it resonated with me v strongly

i thought this was weird, but

i feel like this is a p fucky gamestate
scum!cabd can make it loads worse by doing that
scum!peta can make it loads worse by encouraging/forcing the prims/bork thing

i think that people *not* doing those sorts of things is +town cuz if i were scum i would absolutely be trying to take advantage of those things to make the game more of a bog than it is

and i'm kinda assuming any competent scum with enough pull in the gamestate would

yes, okay, that makes sense

[petapan]

I don't really know how to explain this but I'll give it a shot; you're right, there's no specific thing you did in the newbie that really parallels to this game, but playing with you in the newbie I created sort of a mental model for what I think town!skitter's mindset is, and I haven't seen anything from you here to make me doubt the efficacy of the model.

okay, but why would that make you believe this is not her scumgame? i have no picture in my mind of what it would be like, but by reputation it's good. i would expect her play to look similar. that seems like a very lax read. (i fucking hated when people would read me off reputation but it's better to err on the side of caution)

[petapan]

scum!peta can make it loads worse by encouraging/forcing the prims/bork thing

I think this is really stopping at the first level and not really taking into account that every scum player at this table is thinking at least 2-3 moves deep. He also doesn't have to encourage it at all to keep it in place.

He's avoided convincing me bork is town and has not even tried to actually check into my read before making that longwinded appeal.

Both suggest to me that he's probably just scum.

talk to me, fucker

[petapan]

is it wrong that i feel that is the towniest post cabd has made this game

[petapan]

Can someone point out to me any discussion of things that can be alignment indicative in the past couple of pages?

do you mind explaining at some point why you're scumreading me less?

Am I wrong? Should I scumread you more?

Are you asking because you're going to flip red and you want me to look extra bad?

no i just want to understand why the read changed

[petapan]

Now he has two reasons to be mad at me if he's town FUCK

You're confusing me.

don't worry about it

[petapan]

I don't really know how to explain this but I'll give it a shot; you're right, there's no specific thing you did in the newbie that really parallels to this game, but playing with you in the newbie I created sort of a mental model for what I think town!skitter's mindset is, and I haven't seen anything from you here to make me doubt the efficacy of the model.

okay, but why would that make you believe this is not her scumgame? i have no picture in my mind of what it would be like, but by reputation it's good. i would expect her play to look similar. that seems like a very lax read. (i fucking hated when people would read me off reputation but it's better to err on the side of caution)

Really don't know what to tell you dude; it's how I feel and I'm apparently just shit when I don't have a neighborhood or a discord to lurk in

why so emo?

[petapan]

Because nobody agrees with anything I think and two of my favorite people are scumreading me and I have this sinking feeling a third one is about to and I've no idea how I've managed this

may or may not be on my third glass of wine

well, this sort of appeal to emotions is not going to help you here. i don't know why you're so broken down already, i was just asking for clarification on what i felt was a very vague read. if it's troubling you, step away for a while. if you're town, what you need to do is just talk things over rationally.

[petapan]

i think i'm getting close to where i want to be, readswise

[petapan]

town reads (S - > W)
noddy, prism, dgb, pooky, bork

i need to review the data on bork because that's mostly a read off impressions from memory in the morass. i want to do that, plus pull one more townread from the {ffery, cabd, skitter, elements} murky morass. two if i'm not allowed to selfishly exclude myself from poe. i felt good about ffery last night but did reading while at work and so can't have a confident townread. ben, vax, and syr never leave poe. i have words on the first two but i think neither is an optimal day 1 vote. gut is saying vax may be boredtown but i don't think it'll ever be a high enough confidence read to remove from poe.

(it feels weird using a nickname for someone i barely know, but hey)

[petapan]

I can clear this up by claiming, peta.

I'm..

Spoiler:

A Blade.

thanks nora i guess you're town now

[petapan]

talk to me, fucker

You haven't given me anything to talk about. You've had several chances to talk to me about your bork townread or to understand why I'm actually scumreading him. The former you avoid like the plague, the latter you put off.

I'm tired and probably about to go to bed as soon as I shovel enough calories but the ball's in your court here.

i want to, okay? that is my next order of business but given the hour i'm not sure i'll get to it tonight. but obviously this is a critical thing to figure out

Also peta I'm mad that you didn't acknowledge this confession, you were right, you called me out and I backtracked and I'm coming clean all these years later.

i'll be honest i have no memory of this

[petapan]

I'm about to go to bed so we're definitely not talking right now, I just really don't know what you expected from that invitation without any topic of your own and multiple dodges of the ones I suggest

maybe i'm bad at communicating but i don't want to avoid discussing why you're actually scumreading him, i wanted to go over it and then tell you that you're being dumb and tilted, probably but like i said i'm reviewing the data OKAY

[petapan]

i think you're just jealous we don't have a complicated meta dance like the cool kids in this game

Don't know if it's usual for you, but I feel like there's definitely a dance happening here, it just doesn't seem to resolve.

prescient

[petapan]

@notsci

my view on prism is that they have a fairly unique/different approach to the game.

there's some things in particular they really care about:

- making sure they understand the arguments their opponent/person they're arguing with is making
- making sure that the person they're arguing with understand *their* pov
- and that in order to sort out/resolve/hash out conflicts in the gamestate, gladiates are useful/important no matter how unpleasant it might be for the game overall and prism themself (this undercurrent runs through *many* of their posts)

i don't think they're being pedantic when they're quibbiling with peta and bork, i think that this is something they really care abt, and it's super important to them in order for them to be able to process/sort the game and for the game to 'move on' so to speak.
viewed in that light, their scumread of peta, myself, and bork all make sense, as does their insistence on this gladiate.

like at some point a lightbulb went off for me, where their whole pov started making sense to me, and once i got it, i was able to understand what they were doing and it makes sense as a motivator for their actions. like earlier, i disliked their snap bork vote, but once i kinda put together their approach to the game, it makes sense and is in line with that whole pov, so in retrospect it's fine

mid-data review of bork, and i do feel like this is basically the root of the whole fight to begin with, prism makes an assessment of elements's play as bold for scum, bork comes in disagreeing from a theoretical perspective in the infamous 239, prism takes it as a discredit and blows the hell up, but really it's just fundamentally different ideas about the game. for what it's worth my own theoretical view is much closer to bork's - i think a significant number of players will opt to simply "go with the flow" as scum, so to speak, and avoid picking fights with strong, active voices, who they will townread because of perceived optics. i instinctively townread the way bork reacts with a big ol' WTF to what he's being hit with even though that would probably be genuine as either alignment, but it can't be helped.

[petapan]

bork's early gutread on syr made sense. like 307 and 313 as an approach to reading cabd and ffery, noting the strangeness there, 629 is a good post and on review really brings to my attention that ffery gave him a non-answer to his questions, 637 is a good followup, tilt at prism in 956 over getting dogged for something that is frankly fucking insignificant has a real "get off my back" vibe that reminds me of how i react to getting shitpushed. 1041 and 1043 read genuine. 1208 is similar to 956 but i like the way he lays out his thought process here. do not mind being described as "off and weird" in 1257 and i felt the observation on cabd commenting on prism was mindmeld-y at the time. looking back it's not quite the same, he just wanted cabd to comment on prism, i thought it was weird cabd had such a muted response to his townread getting run up. but think the frustration there is legitimate when he's getting tunneld and feels like people won't talk to him about it.


throughout his iso he's patiently spitting out takes and is usually making sense. like him quite a bit more after this actually

[petapan]

For some reason I'm still awake, I have a lot to say in the morning to both skitter and peta later about those perspectives which are mostly right

but peta's last sentence is outright scumclaiming

VOTE: petapan

i instinctively townread the way bork reacts with a big ol' WTF to what he's being hit with even though that would probably be genuine as either alignment,

but it can't be helped.

I am hardcalling bullshit that he feels this way, this is instinctive fake nuance garbage

i am beyond disappointed

[petapan]

I think we table Syry for the day and eliminate Peta. I think we’re both in agreeance here? syrys not going anywhere. Gives chance for investigatives and I do have the smallest hint of hesitation and concern he seems universal a la d1 maid/alisae in illicit. I almost feel like peta is playing politically.

and you think that'd be my approach here why? can you actually answer my question to you in 1884?

[petapan]

might suck air through my teeth and make skitter my last townread then lose sleep over it. elements as the 7th if i am to be poe'd, as i've liked her confidence, explanations on reads have been good

[petapan]

all right, just going to keep doing my thing then:

So, on Ben, I don't think effort is the best metric to read him by, and every time he prodges and promises content my estimation there drops. I went back and checked up on his meta, and i don't think a single game sample is a reliable scum baseline? the thing about that game was, his teammate was fucking flavor leaf. the scum PT was never released, and although they didn't have daytalk, it's clear there was some planned, coordinated cross-bussing going. the effort there is because he had motivated teammates working with him. that's not guaranteed to be the case here.

my big issue is, looking at his town games, he's capable of saying things that make sense and here they...don't? the famous reads list was incredibly vague and repetitive, a lot of his arguments i can barely understand what he's saying. i think there's a more than decent chance it's because he's BSing.

still, i'm not advocating for him to be flipped on day 1 - more or less the opposite. that's a low info low value flip. but i think, unless mechanically cleared in someway, you definitely flip him on day 2 or 3. i don't see any other way to handle him this game.

[petapan]

wrt vax, the concerns are lesser but still there. the other day when i decided to look at his iso for whatever reason i can't remember, i noticed that after the initial aggression that got him scumread, he makes an apology in 369 and from there on his posting takes a lot more of a "people-pleaser" vibe - more asking questions, being friendly to people, conversational posting. almost deliberately noncontroversial. so there's a bit of worry there. i also didn't like him trying to force a vote on prism as the "compromise" wagon. he does look somewhat like bored town now, though, so i hesitate, and he might be cleared by some players flipping, so, again, not a good day 1 kill. you don't really learn anything from voting him out now. still i'd disagree with some of the townreads being placed on him. i don't think there's enough to make him above suspicion.

[petapan]

i have been posting in this game now off and on for 6 hours. i got so into it i forgot to watch my favorite stream. it's all right though, i'm having fun. opened up way more than i normally would. sorry to anyone who is sick of the junior debate club antics.

anyway, i think at this point in time, with 3 and a half days to deadline, there should be some consolidation of votes, and movement toward getting a claim from someone

[petapan]

oh, uh, i should

probably

commit some words to syr, since last i'd said anything, i liked his swagger somewhere in my reread of pages 20-30, and then i sort of started piling on the momentum on him and put him in my poe, but it's late now. i want to avoid the tendency of just scumreading someone for being inactive because that's bad process but have some things to say there

[petapan]

On one hand, I think your slot is really scummy. When I knew there was a replacement coming in I thought "there is nothing they can say that will sway my mind about that slot being scummy" and now here we are, and im questioning my previous read. (not because of the above posts, but other reasons).

i don't think you've ever explained why you feel that way?

[petapan]

With regards to your big long posts I’ve made similar posts as scum and as town before. I’ve seen others do similarly, but that’s besides the point. I could see an argument for NAI.

tbh, i never make that post as scum here. in a newbie game, i might make a similar post like that to make myself seem like a leader, because new players are going to respond favorably to someone who acts formal and officious-sounding. here, i wasn't expecting that. that is just an entirely serious post about strategy and how i want to approach this game.

What scum motivation is there? Creating a peacekeeper “sane voice of reason” persona this game feels like a pretty safe place for scum to occupy.

I’m scumreading you for it because given my experience with you (and I understand the differences between all three games) I found you more apt to give in to emotion and try to leverage it as scum.

why would that be necessary for me, though? at that moment i wasn't in any particular danger. some ambient reads putting me toward the bottom of the poe, but no

real

pressure anyway. as scum my first goal at any given moment is not "get townread". that's not a productive strategy (though i often do get townread from the way i play).

i can be an emotional player as both alignments, although this game i have been pretty sedate after getting out of my early-game mope (although prism is starting to piss me off). i think the newbie game we played together is a pretty poor baseline for my approach, for obvious reasons. i was in the game for barely any time at all before getting guiltied by a town PR. this threw me into an immediate confrontation, and i decided to counter claim and make a fight of it. this goes back to my roots as a player on epicmafia. there, the setups are open, typically night start, and with a small number of players (7-10). often the game will revolve around a day 1 investigative role claim, and to have any prayer of winning, a member of the mafia team pretty much has to counter-claim. i've done that CC battle literally hundreds of times. it is something i am extremely practiced in. i am always going to ratchet up the intensity in that situation because for most people, they will side with the loud voice.

i think you're showing a lack of understanding of how i approach the game as scum. here, the environment is completely different. it's a wide open field. everyone's still kind of trying to figure everyone else out. at any given moment as scum my number 1 goal is figuring out who i can push to get chopped. getting townies executed is how i win games. to that end, trying to defuse a toxic TvT fight as scum is phenomenally anti-wincon. any amount of "towncred" i would garner isn't worth it in comparison to taking 2 potential executions off the table. i laid out in that post i think that sort of fight is how towns lose games like this. you can absolutely bet i'd be looking to exploit it. it wouldn't be hard, either. here, i'm doing the opposite. i'm visibly trying to limit the amount of executions available by assembling a set of townreads i am hopeful can win the game. because i don't really expect scum to be easily "caught" here, so to speak. sure, i will often white knight a town player who is being pushed, but that's because i can't look like i'm willing to kill everyone, and at times like that i'm going to weakly posture against a wagon while hoping it goes through, and/or push a counter wagon on someone else, to establish another target. (or i might throw a weak bus vote on a teammate while not acting forcefully enough for the wagon to go through). here, i'm doing none of that. i just don't want prism and bork to burn everything down for no god damn reason.

in comparison to the strategy of trying to get townies killed, a single vaguely emotional paragraph where i talk about how the game is going to be difficult is, like...nothing. as a scum play it'd be pure dogshit.

[petapan]

@peta

I guess I could iso them and go back over it. Every time I wanted to talk about it, they kept saying that things werent going well IRL, and stuff in the game seemed to effecting them, so I held back my thoughts.

Without reading, I remember they were pushing my beginning play as scummy, while completely ignoring everyone elses beginning play.

why can't seeing your beginning play as scummy compared to everyone else just be something he believed, rather than some kind of strategy on his part? this just doesn't make sense.

[petapan]

mid-data review of bork, and i do feel like this is basically the root of the whole fight to begin with, prism makes an assessment of elements's play as bold for scum, bork comes in disagreeing from a theoretical perspective in the infamous 239, prism takes it as a discredit and blows the hell up, but really it's just fundamentally different ideas about the game. for what it's worth my own theoretical view is much closer to bork's - i think a significant number of players will opt to simply "go with the flow" as scum, so to speak, and avoid picking fights with strong, active voices, who they will townread because of perceived optics.

I think you're missing the significance of the interaction for me.

I understand fully disagreeing with my read on Elements. It's very plausible to make an overly strong statement/framing to highlight why you (in this case bork) disagrees

Spoiler: Significance of the interaction, long/weeds

However, I scumread bork already, and I suspected his questioning was not in good faith (actually trying to sort me or be persuaded). This suspicion prompted my vote before 239. I did not like the strawman because it confirmed my suspicion-he definitely got why I townread Elements but rather than disagreeing and calling it a day, responded with the strawman to keep going.

bork scumreads me in large part because he thinks I'm using 239 as a post-facto justification for my vote and that I reacted so strongly to 239 to dodge talking about it. This is absurd given my immediate response to 239, 242, separates the issues immediately and makes clear that my vote was for. Bork also literally just flat out refuses to acknowledge that 239 was even trying to undermine my point, which is

absolutely insane

It's not just a theoretical disagreement. My vote is not about him disagreeing with my Elements read at all.

in the kindest possible terms: you are being extremely unreasonable.

[petapan]

Peta's 1991 is also way too kind to me given the interpretation he's describing. I don't really agree with his word choice of "blew up", but the thought does not even pass through his mind that I blew up over something theoretical in order to be more aggressive as scum, something he's already indicated he's wary of.

I don't see him taking out of this that I blew up over something theoretical without him immediately doubting his read and wondering bork is right. My page 39 is more likely to come from town but is absolutely within my scumrange, and I have a hard time buying he has me town for anything else recent.

I'm town but this interpretation and me pivoting to him should be redflags and peta is barreling ahead on his townread completely undeterred. He's seen a bit more of my towngame but he is more paranoid of me than this for sure.

as i see it, there are three possibilities for what is going on right now:

1. you are catastrophically wrong in your read of me.
2. i am catastrophically wrong in my read of you, and you're scum trying to get me executed. i understand and fully recognize this is an approach you'd take
3. you're just shoving at me trying to get a rise out of me with a terrible case in the hope i'll give you some kind of reaction you can read me off of. i don't know why you'd think i would respond to that sort of thing in this particular game.

i would say my money is still currently on 1 being the case, but do some flickerings of paranoia and doubt exist? yes, absolutely, but i haven't let them creep into the main thread for the most part. the longer this goes on, the stronger the doubts get, because i have been approaching things with the belief that you're town and you'll figure me out eventually. the fact that that's not happening is worrisome, because i don't think there's signal degradation on my end and i feel like i've gotten better as the game has gone on. but it still hasn't been bad enough that i'd rule out the possibility of you being town, because in my estimation your capacity for being unreasonable is extremely high

[petapan]

Sorry I can't hear you I searched "can't be helped" and "helped" in your posts and now I'm reading crypto being mad in nightless

a classic. the origin story. town self-immolated in the space of 43 hours. remember to stop to reread in nightless, folks

(i love that you're trying to look for a linguistic tell that would've had to have persisted over 8 years)

[petapan]

Pondering how much weight this should bear in reading you.

i think that is the most words i have written about the game of mafia and the most words i have written in a game of mafia

[petapan]

Peta, I think the simplest way to handle this if you're town is just...find me a scum to vote instead.

Your approach is to collect townreads, but I really oppose one of your inclusions at a minimum. Your interpretation of my/bork's discussion after 239 is fine, and if you think it's town then

shrug, okay

. You haven't convinced me he's town or discussed why I actually scumread him, and you don't have to.

I scumread both of you, if I'm wrong that's on me, but so far I see no reason to trust your PoE or follow you at all.

i have already articulated why i think the approach of just pointing at someone and trying to call them scum isn't likely to work in this game - it leads to laughably bad cases like the ones you are pushing. the reason neither i or anyone else talks to you about why you "actually scumread him" is because it is barely comprehensible, and it is also terrible. he is scum for not understand your hyperbolic, overblown response to his expression of disagreement. the fact is, not only can he not fucking understand what you're trying to say against him, neither can literally any of the other players in this game. i guess that makes us all scum.

i've outed reads, i've outed reasoning when i can, you don't seem to care. instead you hit me with the idea i'm scum because of the phrase "it cant be helped". ok dude.

[petapan]

good because i don't think you're worth conversing with anymore, and right now i'm thinking unpleasant things it would be a mistake to say

[petapan]

@peta

[snipped]

fwiw, 516 isn't "shopping around" as much as much as him interrogating skitter about her townread on you in the context of his argument with her. i think you've misunderstood what he was saying at a few points but i'm not sure how important getting into the details of it are. overall i don't find that stuff he posted scummy but i

get

why you'd be hung up on it and this helps me clarify your thinking, thanks

[petapan]

With the caveat that i'm about page 70

i have bad news about wanting to avoid the prsim v you dynamic

[petapan]

It is, however, worth noting that my/petapan's history of dancing is very different from yours and Cabd.

90% of the time one steps on a foot, the other says to watch where you're stepping you clumsy motherfucker, the first replies "Who you callin' clumsy?" and before you know we're whacking each other with our heels and both of our dresses are torn and we never liked the other anyway and we both flip town

10% of the time Usher or Adele is on and hell yeah that's our jam and it's all okay

i mean, recent game history is very short, forum game history barely exists, most of my memories of you are from when you were a teenager. it's fair to say we don't know each other that well and fmpov it's obvious one of us is very wrong about the other, i just don't know which one

[petapan]

If I’m ffery here I find one of the cohort to dance with and sort then base the game state around.

She wasn’t able to for various reasons and this is how it ended up.

ok and i guess my followup question is does 'ffery being town in an environment that's rough for her to be town' look substantially different than just 'ffery being scum'?

ffery, confirm/deny: is 'ffery being town in an environment that's rough for her to be town' the type of game you'd try to emulate as scum? just curious

[petapan]

But like... DO you townread me AND trust it?

i don't need the tell, he was in my poe. i would be lying if i said the cad snapvoe bothered me like it did notsci, but the lurch onto prism at skitter's behest looked bad in hindsight and his vague explanation for his townread of her was kind of a lancer vibe

[petapan]

I really wanted to post "Where the fuck is the magical bear?" I didn't really want to interrupt what was going on further

Welcome back Pooky, any thoughts to share?

Prism would it surprise you if I told you I mindmelded with you so completely on Peta that everything you said was something that went thru my head but I couldn't possibly write even 5% as beautifully or as eloquently as you so I have some worries that we're both just wrong like we were in follies but goddamnit we're due to be right sometime.

you really think this is how i play as a bad guy, pooky?

[petapan]

also stray thought but i liked vax explicating his thought process on mod pizza earlier and it made him townier in my eyes

[petapan]

Let's uh... just do the thing and sing kumbaiyah etc.

are you at "hammer without a claim" level of confidence? i am basically never at that level. but i don't want to stand in the way or nudge you toward it

[petapan]

Cabd-ffery-bork-notsci masonry if this redflips. For srs.

if he's red i'd hardclear prism even though it'd make him even more insufferable

[petapan]

okay

VOTE:

there's a big risk to this in a normal game but given the state of things i'm not sure there's an option i like better. it's taken me 10 minutes to get the courage to write up this post.

[petapan]

If by "is it happening" you mean "I just realized something that should have been staring me in the goddamn face" then yes?

???

sometimes he does these things and you just gotta trust him because it's usually right

[petapan]

VOTE: syryana

that's E-2, by my count. (notsci, cabd, pooky, ffery, me)

[petapan]

Look, I get that waiting for a claim here is right and proper. But short of innocent child claim that the mod then waltzes in here and activates, all it's gonna do is cause a potential counterclaim and then I yell to yeet it anyways,

i mean functionally in a universe where he is a town pr and it's confirmable or something likely to get NKed, we've wasted an elimination we could have used elsewhere and made ourselves unnecessarily worse off. yeeting PRs without a claim is pretty much required for a town to lose a normal game these days, with how townsided the setups are.


but-oh, well then

[petapan]

yeeting PRs without a claim is pretty much required for a town to lose a normal game these days, with how townsided the setups are.

You sound like sad scum whose team seems underpowered :sadpuppy:

nah, just someone who's been studying the construction of normal setups a bit to have an idea of how to strategize

[petapan]

but more on that day 2, especially on a redflip

[petapan]

you're being run up because of syr's play and need to claim because we have 3 days to deadline

[petapan]

UNVOTE:

i'll let you post it up all you want as a basic courtesy but at the end of the day you're probably getting murdered.


i would vote prism out of policy, though.

[petapan]

Bad peta. No kibble.

sorry. don't see the harm in letting him talk and if it's a miss it's just needlessly rude to rush it. scumread me for it, idc

[petapan]

also small sample size but i have respect for unwnd's reads if he's town

[petapan]

Nah, the part about Prism, not the part about time to think.

oh

sorry but i have a "get off my nuts" clause and i absolutely and unironically believe he is likely to be detrimental to a town wincon at this point

[petapan]

i mean i know who in those names i'd be looking at

[petapan]

this is just how i felt when engaging prism like "should i keep this the least bit real and accept that this game is now 5 pages longer than it otherwise would've been"

reminds me a little of playing against thor early in my career

completely vibe with this

[petapan]

Look, all.

My good friend Syr is many things.

But his primary weakness as scum, the entry in the binder that has been there since the beginning of my mafia career, practically? It's only a few words, but they've never been wrong.

Scum-Syr Model: "Leans into shitposting/memes early, runs out of stamina, grouses once he runs out of steam"

I know this is like... an anticlimactic tell from the metabinder. But I'm burning it and it's 100% and I am going to throw that page of the binder a funeral with copious amounts of liquor this weekend.

The only thing that doesn't fit with Rift-Syr meta is that his posting was always minimal and I kept on keeping on when he was out of steam.

Regardless of alignment.

It followed when we were cult leader in Majiffy's abomination of a bastard game. It followed when we were SK in Nati's micro. And it ALWAYS followed in our town games, unless I called on him late game for the perfect memes. 98% of the posting was always me.

He's the best emotional support in the universe in our hydra chat<3.

are you saying you think the loss of motivation is a nulltell?

[petapan]

I don't really like the current gamestate. My opinion, for better or for worse, is being completely discarded. Bork/Petapan are celebrating camaraderie without realizing they're celebrating not knowing what "at least one is scum" implies.

I'm pretty convinced at this point that playing into it is intentional on petapan's part to shut me out, and I actually think bork is more town for it. My approach has to differ drastically.

is "celebrating camaraderie" equivalent to me agreeing with one post he made about how arguing with you is tedious?

[petapan]

a quick scan of his iso shows that he has mostly held me at arm's length aside from one post where he says i look good on the page where unwnd joined the game and i unvoted (i feel like that page is pretty rote but w/e)

this is a pretty egregious mischaracterization of how we've interacted

[petapan]

Are you really so eager to get into another pedantic argument with me over nothing, peta?

so now that's the tack you take? i don't think it's pedantic to disagree with your description of the current gamestate, when what you're saying is seriously flawed. you attempt to paint a portrait of my scumplay in this game as a conspiracy revolving around you. we are heading into outrageous territory, where apparently i am buddying up to bork-town who scumreads you while a significant chunk of my effort has been to not getting him to 1v1 you. you grow further detached from reality the longer this goes on.


or are you trying to scare me off from arguing? thinking i'll get conflict averse?

[petapan]

Yeah no can we fucking not.

Where is ben?

i know you and 10 other players in this game are sick of this shit but that post was legitimately scummy to me

[petapan]

In fact, let me go all sales trope and be all "sell me this pen" by "Sell me on Prism being buddies with unwnd"

i don't think that's likely at all, think syr's wagon hop points to anti-aligned.

but, okay, point taken. i won't take this into another shitfest.

i will just say that prism:

1. has grossly mischaracterized the interactions between me and bork to make it seem like we are acting more closely than we actually are
2. used this to fuel into a "woe is me" LAMIST-y post
3. is using increasingly contorted logic to justify me being scum
4. tried to call me pedantic and scare me off with the prospect of tedium when I said he was mischaracterizing things rather than defend a fairly simple statement

none of this will convince you, probably! but it's fairly simple stuff! i just want this on the record b/c in my mind his stuff just went from "unreasonable" to "actually scummy". and i mean if unwnd is red like you're hoping then i'm probably never voting him and this is a waste but i can't play like that's a guaranteed thing

[petapan]

Your response to this has not been to give me space to reevaluate my approach, which should be of great interest to you, and instead get into another pedantic argument with you about my perception of 2376.

I highly doubt this is unintentional.

you conclude you're "pretty convinced" i'm "intentionally playing into" camaraderie with bork, and now i'm apparently intentionally getting into another argument with you to prevent you from re-evaluating because i should somehow be hoping you will "reevaluate" me, nevermind that you have already indicated you have no intentions as such. that for responding to your bait,

i'm

the bad guy who is messing things up


you fucking weasel


VOTE: Prism

[petapan]

i doubt i actually have the votes today to chop you but i'm convinced it's the best thing for the game

so you won, in a manner of speaking

[petapan]

that you don't make blatantly scummy bad faith arguments while repeatedly changing terms and baiting me with insults? lol ok

i am dead serious in that regardless of role card you are a toxic presence in this game whose removal is the best possible thing for the town win condition

[petapan]

then stop baiting me

[petapan]

yeah i'm sorry for subjecting the game to this slow-motion breakup and there's a certain irony that the post i made about avoiding toxic battles has led to

this

. i promise not to start shit again and people can do whatever, we move on and flip someone. the density of posting is what's driving people away from playing the game, like lements can barely contain her disinterest. the fact is i've dragged this out because i've been too respectful, and were it some other person doing this, i'd have told them to fuck off a long time ago. was trying to not be overtly hostile and made things bad in a different way way instead. sorry.

[petapan]

UNVOTE:

okay i woke up, i'm less tilted, give me a few

[petapan]

The one thing I am concerned about wrt Prism is they *are* instigating a lot of 1v1s. I don’t have the time to go and dig through their past games to see if it’s more likely as either alignment, but I feel like their perspective has been much more broad in my recollection.

I don’t know if “get out of one 1v1 and instigate another” is a strategy Prism thinks is viable. I suppose in a “have everyone glaze over their posts” way, but still.

i think this is entirely within his capacity, but, grumble. difficult to decide whether it's an actual read or just incredibly intense dislike for how he's chosen to conduct himself this game, you know? preferable to just sheep you guys, hope you're right, and then i shut the hell up about it

[petapan]

b/c i wanted to give him time to give reads and then got into a fight with my friend but anyway we have 2 days left and trying to start another wagon now is a bad idea so we should get it over with, i PMed the mod for a VC

[petapan]

town eliminate scum d1 at a rate pretty much =rand, i have none of that excessive confidence at the moment, i just recognize killing a claimed vt in a heavily suspected slot is not a huge tragedy while a last minute flashwagon on a low content poster has the potential to be very bad. if it's wrong, sorry, it's really not your fault, we just pick up the pieces and rethink things

[petapan]

yeah, i get it, i've seen your reads list, is there anything in particular you want to talk about, i guess?

[petapan]

Just for my sake I'd like to understand what others are thinking about my list because I was a bit miffed nobody said anything lol

okay, sorry, give me a little while and i'll go over stuff with you, need time to process

[petapan]

Here's where I stand from doing a bit of digging.

MOD/Notsci

DGB

Peta

Bork

--

Ffery

Cabd

Skitter

Elements

Prism

Ben

--

Pooky

Vax

The area in the middle is what I'm most interested in solving. Three of those players are here to solve and then the rest are not. The three that are here to solve are each placed just based on their tone mostly. I would say Ffery is probably null-lean town out of the bunch with Cabd still sitting null and Prism being placed there because I am choosing to reset myself. When it comes to Ben/Elements/Skitter, just from ISO'ing the slots I felt Ben had the least amount to say. Not in the same fashion of Vax, but where his last post was that he was gonna make a post that never happened. This reads to me like a potential scum who is making broken promises, and I thought earlier on when I was peeking into the thread where he was getting a good amount of pressure was a good look. The only problem though is my read is based on about...18 posts? I don't remember the exact number. My read becomes situational but I think that dragging someone like him out of the spotlight works in the same way the others do. I felt Skitter was being sensible and I appreciate the clarity, but found myself that her responses were ultimately leaning null. Elements is put there for being on the player-list and I have no further thoughts on them. I think where I stand right now is that I'm probably wrong somewhere in my top-half but confidence assures me no less than one, with the rest of the game being sorted in my nulls and below.

why's pooky red? most i've seen you say is he was being "weird" which doesn't really equate to a fullblown scumcase against him. you believe Vax is scum because he's UTR and not really strongly pushing his reads?

the point about ben promising content and not delivering is a good one, that is one of my own big tells as scum, it's harder to kick into gear to fabricate something. of course i hope people in this game just accept that at this point he's a pre-lylo policy elim, and not like a "i do not like how this person is playing" policy but a tactical "it is impossible to confidently sort this person as town and so the best play is to eliminate them"

murky middle of your list is about the same as mine but was moving skitter toward town in my eyes from her recent posts. curious why ffery is shaded toward green?

agree w/ notsci, dgb, bork town. (i would hope people cotton on to bork being town from his recent posts)

[petapan]

My read on Vax is not necessarily UTR. I think that Vax is not going to be pressured to do anything in this environment. He remains UTR because we've let him be, and as I explained before I find his words to be very self-aware but also condescending in a way. Like how he came in and told us to stop arguing and go somewhere or that he didn't get a chance to player or whatever. He's just going to keep doing that and I wanted to bring attention to it. Pooky is not necessarily associative of Vax but there were just some gut tells I got from his early content that never got solved, and put him down there because since that content he's only tapered off and not really done anything to get better. When it comes to Ffery being shaded towards green I explained it a bit earlier

i guess i understand on vax and do think he should be in the poe still but is not high priority for me

i think pooky has hit some of his towntells and that fluff and not being high content are null for him. a bit worried about him glomming on to prism and not really engaging me on if he thinks i

actually

play like this as scum but not majorly worried. track record of reading him is not great though so who knows.

[petapan]

For what it's worth I'm pretty sure this makes skitter Town and I'm hoping she comes back to play because there's no way that syr does that weird dance with a partner imo

she's v/la fridays and saturdays

[petapan]

oh lol