Mini Normal 2179 | ENDGAME

[Battle Mage]

first

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: benhalkum

[Battle Mage]

IIRC she did a similar trolly maneuver in Mini Theme 2172

VOTE: Rannygazoo

[Battle Mage]

So, three votes on me "randomly" huh? Well, know where to start looking .

Explain why on first bite randomness a bandwagon is a good idea of you're not scumm.

do you always assume people who vote for you are scum?

[Battle Mage]

Were you scum? Was she scum?

No and no

So, three votes on me "randomly" huh? Well, know where to start looking .

Explain why on first bite randomness a bandwagon is a good idea of you're not scumm.

Tentatively agree but I’ll wait to see more before judging

If that's a serious question about gameplay/strategy, the answer is bandwagonning on Day 1 is a good way to get information. For instance:

You can see how people react to coming under scrutiny
You can see how people react to joining bandwagons
You can see whether/how people justify their responses to doing so, and how they interact with each other

Early wagons are helpful. Also, not for nothing, but 1 of the 3 votes on ben was...the first vote...and therefore not a wagon. So I think at best, you could argue the 3rd vote wasn't random, the others easily could have been! And even if votes aren't random, the key is attributing some alignment indicative motive to them.

[Battle Mage]

So, three votes on me "randomly" huh? Well, know where to start looking .

Explain why on first bite randomness a bandwagon is a good idea of you're not scumm.

random bandwagon early helps solve the guy being wagoned and generates discussion?

especially helpful since this is a really bad reaction

i mean, it's a ben reaction - this is exactly what he did as town in the last game all 3 of us were in together. However it did also help cost town the game, so.

[Battle Mage]

IIRC she did a similar trolly maneuver in Mini Theme 2172

Were you scum? Was she scum?

Were you scum? Was she scum?

No and no

what is this about?

[Battle Mage]

If that's a serious question about gameplay/strategy, the answer is bandwagonning on Day 1 is a good way to get information. For instance:

Thanks for the analysis. I'm more interested in what OutWorldER has to say.

charming

[Battle Mage]

So, three votes on me "randomly" huh? Well, know where to start looking .

Explain why on first bite randomness a bandwagon is a good idea of you're not scumm.

random bandwagon early helps solve the guy being wagoned and generates discussion?

especially helpful since this is a really bad reaction

i mean, it's a ben reaction - this is exactly what he did as town in the last game all 3 of us were in together. However it did also help cost town the game, so.

i don't really recall that from o799, I mostly just recall ben being inactive

essentially he was inactive but when he did turn up he just OMGUSed everyone who had been wary of him, and we flipped him because of it. collective responsibility though, we all sucked in that game.

[Battle Mage]

If that's a serious question about gameplay/strategy, the answer is bandwagonning on Day 1 is a good way to get information. For instance:

Thanks for the analysis. I'm more interested in what OutWorldER has to say.

charming

No disrespect. I'm just going to follow up on the lead, even if you don't think I need to.

I'm happy for you to do whatever you choose. But I like to give my 2 cents.

[Battle Mage]

IIRC she did a similar trolly maneuver in Mini Theme 2172

you think Titus moving her random vote on page 1 is a "trolly maneuver"?

[Battle Mage]

I'm happy for you to do whatever you choose. But I like to give my 2 cents.

I didn't mean to discourage you. Sorry if I gave you that impression.

All good, we cool

[Battle Mage]

my initial suggestion would be...it's very early to draw a conclusion one way or another about Titus' alignment in this game, especially based on the 1-game meta cited and given she only has a couple of non-AI posts.

[Battle Mage]

So maybe as town Titus likes to reaction vote?

I like us out of RVS asap.

I also didn't like Rannygazoo's vote for weak as fuck reasons, so I voted him and shut up.

tell me what you didnt like about it?

[Battle Mage]

my initial suggestion would be...it's very early to draw a conclusion one way or another about Titus' alignment in this game, especially based on the 1-game meta cited and given she only has a couple of non-AI posts.

And this needed saying because?

All you're doing is stopping scum from whiteknighting me based on flimsy evidence and exposing themselves.

...what's the reason behind your entrance being a tad on the aggressive side? I've previously known you to be a lot more moderate and composed as town.

To actually respond to your point, I didn't stop anyone doing anything, by giving a view on something which had already happened.

[Battle Mage]

Let’s generate some noise from which we will derive associations or motives
VOTE: Non Imh

He says this, yet his vote does nothing to further creating associations or motives by not joining any other wagon.

you described this quite dramatically as a "vote for weak as fuck reasons".

I'd argue it's a vote which isn't for any reason. Much like other votes, including your own. If I was being generous, I'd say you're making something out of nothing here. A more believable explanation for your vote would have been that you thought he was trying to appear helpful and protown/LAMIST with extra superfluous words which didn't really amount to anything. I actually read his vote to be completely unrelated to the narrative.

[Battle Mage]

Let’s generate some noise from which we will derive associations or motives
VOTE: Non Imh

He says this, yet his vote does nothing to further creating associations or motives by not joining any other wagon.

This is really interesting. Ben thinks it's scummy to bandwagon on page 1. Titus thinks it's scummy NOT to.

The way I see it, a random vote on a new wagon is kind of the "default" thing. From scum's perspective, it might be a good thing to do in order to stay unnoticed. But bandwagonning is probably better because it puts pressure on [anyone else but them].

From town's perspective, there's a lot more freedom in choosing what to do, because I know I'm not going to solve the game on page 1. I just need to see content and hopefully it will make sense in retrospect.

The correct answer, per the BM school of scumhunting is...it depends. Context is key. However, generally I look favourably on those who are very eager and assertive with their votes early, and less favourably on those who are more cautious and avoiding the spotlight. A townie's vote is his most powerful weapon, and a good townie will put it to use.

[Battle Mage]

That feels like a lot of words to say that my observation was correct but that you assign my rationale no weight. If that's the case though, why are you voting Ranny?

I think you could have made a credible argument that Ranny's post was scummy, but you didn't. That's slightly different than saying your observation was correct, as I've already pointed out why it wasn't (he

didnt

vote based on a really weak rationale, he gave no rationale for the vote itself).

I was pinged by Ranny's post for the reason I assumed you might have been, as I explained in post 45. I also didn't really understand the attempt to sort you so early based on a 1-game meta and a couple of empty posts.

[Battle Mage]

my initial take is that this is a defensive (and aggressive) open from Titus. Surprised that in post 49, she didn't probe Ben's line at all - just defended her own position.

[Battle Mage]

my initial suggestion would be...it's very early to draw a conclusion one way or another about Titus' alignment in this game, especially based on the 1-game meta cited and given she only has a couple of non-AI posts.

And this needed saying because?

All you're doing is stopping scum from whiteknighting me based on flimsy evidence and exposing themselves.

...what's the reason behind your entrance being a tad on the aggressive side? I've previously known you to be a lot more moderate and composed as town.

To actually respond to your point, I didn't stop anyone doing anything, by giving a view on something which had already happened.

I'm in a no bullshit mood and I am sick of getting nightkilled day one and then praying people solve without me.

Sick of being night killed on day one but ok with making yourself a target?

I mean, unless you know you're safe at night

Ben, can you please explain what you mean here?

specifically about Titus making herself a target? and how you infer this means she would be safe at night?

[Battle Mage]

Ranny might actually be scum. 41 is very professory and doesn't move the game forward. Rather it seems that Rannygazoo feels caught in a hard place and would have us debate how long RVS goes on for.

Not sure what to think about BM indulging this in 43.

Post 43:

@Titus: sounds like you have really high standards for RVS

[Battle Mage]

my initial suggestion would be...it's very early to draw a conclusion one way or another about Titus' alignment in this game, especially based on the 1-game meta cited and given she only has a couple of non-AI posts.

And this needed saying because?

All you're doing is stopping scum from whiteknighting me based on flimsy evidence and exposing themselves.

...what's the reason behind your entrance being a tad on the aggressive side? I've previously known you to be a lot more moderate and composed as town.

To actually respond to your point, I didn't stop anyone doing anything, by giving a view on something which had already happened.

I'm in a no bullshit mood and I am sick of getting nightkilled day one and then praying people solve without me.

Sick of being night killed on day one but ok with making yourself a target?

I mean, unless you know you're safe at night

Well, if I am making myself a target, then I am obvtowning.

However, no one nightkills the class know it all.

So therefore my goal is to be right, vocal and brash. This prevents scum from lynching or killing me. Well if they do, town will know exactly where I stand and can sheep it.

Making yourself a target and obvtowning are not necessarily the same thing. If you play in a way which is vocal and brash, you may be a target even if you are not obvtown, as I have learnt in the past. The idea that you wouldn't be NKed at some point in this game is a strange one to be peddling at this stage, especially if you plan to deliberately play in a way where scum might be more likely to kill you. Are you trying to sow the seeds early to justify why you dont get killed?

[Battle Mage]

Yea, the way Titus is acting, to me, is in a way I'd feel comfortable voting her out of it came down to it.

But it's also brash, and scum may see it as a threat if she is in fact town, this targeting her at night.

Unless, she's scum and isn't worried about a night kill.
If that makes sense.

yes that makes sense, thanks

[Battle Mage]

Yea, the way Titus is acting, to me, is in a way I'd feel comfortable voting her out of it came down to it.

But it's also brash, and scum may see it as a threat if she is in fact town, this targeting her at night.

Unless, she's scum and isn't worried about a night kill.
If that makes sense.

I have been nightkilled night 1, three games in a row by not being brash. I'd like to play to day 2. So fuck it. I'll tell you exactly who is scum and who isn't without caring about how it makes you feel.

Titus, it's probably worth flagging at this stage, TGP's rules which include stuff around being nice and respectful to people in the interest of a pleasant game. I'm not suggesting you've breached that thus far, but it's just worth bearing in mind when using your brash and overly-aggressive persona. it's also best not to let influences outside of this game, affect your play in this one.

[Battle Mage]

my initial suggestion would be...it's very early to draw a conclusion one way or another about Titus' alignment in this game, especially based on the 1-game meta cited and given she only has a couple of non-AI posts.

And this needed saying because?

All you're doing is stopping scum from whiteknighting me based on flimsy evidence and exposing themselves.

...what's the reason behind your entrance being a tad on the aggressive side? I've previously known you to be a lot more moderate and composed as town.

To actually respond to your point, I didn't stop anyone doing anything, by giving a view on something which had already happened.

I'm in a no bullshit mood and I am sick of getting nightkilled day one and then praying people solve without me.

Sick of being night killed on day one but ok with making yourself a target?

I mean, unless you know you're safe at night

Well, if I am making myself a target, then I am obvtowning.

However, no one nightkills the class know it all.

So therefore my goal is to be right, vocal and brash. This prevents scum from lynching or killing me. Well if they do, town will know exactly where I stand and can sheep it.

Making yourself a target and obvtowning are not necessarily the same thing. If you play in a way which is vocal and brash, you may be a target even if you are not obvtown, as I have learnt in the past. The idea that you wouldn't be NKed at some point in this game is a strange one to be peddling at this stage, especially if you plan to deliberately play in a way where scum might be more likely to kill you. Are you trying to sow the seeds early to justify why you dont get killed?

None of that is what I am saying though. Listen for the love of all that is good, stop typing and start thinking.

I'm not saying I'll never be nightkilled. I am saying I am going to force scum into a bad situation if they kill me night 1 because I am sick of it happening.

Speaking from personal experience, I get killed N1 often, and I don't worry about it. It's normally a compliment because scum know I'm a good player and hard to mis-elim.

[Battle Mage]

I also didn't really understand the attempt to sort you so early based on a 1-game meta and a couple of empty posts.

Why not? It's early and everything is weak. If it gets players invested, we can get started. Now if such a basis persisted with nothing more, that's scummy. We're at the point where weak evidence is better than none.

P.S. ben is town.

I don't agree with your inference that town should ignore odd behaviour early in the game on the basis "everything is weak...it gets players invested", and it's an odd line to take given your earlier claim you didnt want to prolong the RVS. Are you really suggesting it was unreasonable for me to vote for Ranny based on my rationale? If so, I'd be grateful if you could set that out more clearly.

On Ben, tell me how confident you are that he is town, and why?

[Battle Mage]

Can we both agree that Ben is town and move on?

You should explain your reasoning. As I see it, a couple of us were discussing why we thought Ben may be town here, and you came in and repeatedly stated "Ben is town" with no justification, which seems a bit like you may have been piggy-backing off a popular sentiment but trying to claim it as an independent read.

[Battle Mage]

I just want to point out, just because Titus is saying I'm town doesn't mean I automatically agree she is.

Really weird mentioning it more than once.

The paranoid part of me makes me think if she flips scum it's an attempt to get me targeted next.

That or it's an attempt to get me to lay off my suspecion as why would I want to suspect someone who's baking me as town?

I'd say the latter is most likely. And it would accord with the prevailing sentiment in the game to that point, which was that you are a player who tends to go against people who attack you (so clearly scum would prefer not to antagonise you).

I agree Titus labouring the point about you being town without explaining why is odd.

[Battle Mage]

The weird thing is both battle mage and I are saying about the same thing.

But I'm town and BM can't read?

good take. this is a town-indicative post.

[Battle Mage]

I just want to point out, just because Titus is saying I'm town doesn't mean I automatically agree she is.

Really weird mentioning it more than once.

The paranoid part of me makes me think if she flips scum it's an attempt to get me targeted next.

That or it's an attempt to get me to lay off my suspecion as why would I want to suspect someone who's baking me as town?

This is why Ben is town ftr.

he hadn't made that post until after you said he was town. at best, i'm calling confirmation bias here. really, you need to convince me (and apparently Ben) that you aren't just white-knighting him.

[Battle Mage]

I think I'm gonna VOTE: Titus for the time being. Will catch up on anything I missed later, don't worry (it's late here).

[Battle Mage]

Also, I don't really care what you think of me BM. I care what you think of others.

Only a few posts ago, you made a passionate plea about how you don't want to be eliminated early. Now you don't care what people think of you, even when there is a risk that you might be eliminated as a result? I'm struggling to reconcile these two positions. It seems most likely that you do care what I think of you, but you don't want to acknowledge it because it will be perceived as being too survivalistic, and you've already gone far enough down that road.

[Battle Mage]

I think I'm gonna VOTE: Titus for the time being. Will catch up on anything I missed later, don't worry (it's late here).

I'll hold off for the moment but I'm leaning this way.

If like some others to read through the discussion and give their thoughts.

yeah that's sensible. Maybe they will agree with Titus that I am a silly fool who cannot read.

[Battle Mage]

I think BM might actually be scum here

And yeah ben looks towny to me too

I am in fact, town here.

[Battle Mage]

I think Titus is town. But I am rarely listened to day 1.

I agree. The strongest impression I get out of these starting pages is that Titus is Town.

what other impressions did you get

That Battle Mage is a technical player focused on theory. That’s not a read on their alignment, but it’s good to understand the personality of someone you’re trying to read.

I'm genuinely flattered.

[Battle Mage]

Should be working, so I might not catch up properly tonight, but I have read and I think it's NPOM.

VOTE: NoPowerOverMe

I don't think I dislike any of the wagons currently though.

[Battle Mage]

The amount of people townreading Titus would ordinarily make me think she is slightly more likely to be town, given high-profile scum tend to have a low level of heat as their partners distance from them. and it's normally fair to assume a proportion of those early game premature townreads is just scum buddying town.

However, I imagine Titus-scum would have been pretty zero-tolerance on her teammates undermining her in any way, so maybe not true here.

[Battle Mage]

what the fk happened yesterday?

[Battle Mage]

i'm gonna make some food, and i'm gonna read, and then i'm gonna vote for somebody.

i'm just happy i lived long enough to bitch about that quick-elim on Ben who ACTUALLY PLAYED WELL.

ok rant over, new day it is

[Battle Mage]

Battle Mage is here too he knows.

but real talk at worst I hammered a VT who was playing anti-town and at best we caught scum.

real talk, i like you, but you hammered a town PR and didn't even let me post my shit first.

[Battle Mage]

I feel more confident in my reads since no one died last night, but I suppose everyone should feel that way.

what is this supposed to mean?

[Battle Mage]

Battle Mage is here too he knows.

but real talk at worst I hammered a VT who was playing anti-town and at best we caught scum.

real talk, i like you, but you hammered a town PR and didn't even let me post my shit first.

I think it's obvious him and FL are probably town given the reactions at EoD yesterday.

have you played with him before?

[Battle Mage]

I feel more confident in my reads since no one died last night, but I suppose everyone should feel that way.

what is this supposed to mean?

It's an error. I missed Andres dying.

yes but what would you have meant, if nobody had died?

[Battle Mage]

like what were you getting at, when you claimed not to realise somebody had died

[Battle Mage]

Battle Mage is here too he knows.

but real talk at worst I hammered a VT who was playing anti-town and at best we caught scum.

real talk, i like you, but you hammered a town PR and didn't even let me post my shit first.

I think it's obvious him and FL are probably town given the reactions at EoD yesterday.

have you played with him before?

Overworld no. FL yes. Such brazen moves are unlikely to be scum. FL!scum is unlikely to outright locktown such behavior.

S v T is just not happening.
T v S is possible but unlikely given the locktown status granted by FL. Be suspicious if FL walks this back.
S v S is unlikely as it's too dramatic a link.
T v T is the most likely scenario.

I've played with Outworld before. I definitely wouldn't agree the way yesterday ended makes him "obvious" town. I also think there's a balance to strike here - generally agree that brazen moves more often come from town but an all-round endorsement of recklessness is problematic for the game.

I still need to read properly.

[Battle Mage]

I feel more confident in my reads since no one died last night, but I suppose everyone should feel that way.

what is this supposed to mean?

It's an error. I missed Andres dying.

yes but what would you have meant, if nobody had died?

like what were you getting at, when you claimed not to realise somebody had died

If nobody died, given Ben flipped roleblocker, a doctor would likely be the save. Since scum don't shoot people with bad reads (generally), it makes more sense to double down on reads.

I suppose that would make sense, if everybody had identical reads.

But they don't.

So what in the heck are you on about?

Are you really saying that, if there is a doc save, everyone must believe they were shot for their own amazing reads? not everybody is so arrogant. And why does the Doc save even matter in that context?

I'm so confused

[Battle Mage]

if OutworldER is scum, he has experienced teammates. Would probably imply at least 1 of Titus/Flavor Leaf as scum too.

[Battle Mage]

if OutworldER is scum, he has experienced teammates. Would probably imply at least 1 of Titus/Flavor Leaf as scum too.

Why do you think that?

he was super bombastic and confident on Day 1. I don't think he's the type to go balls-out like that, unless he was confident his team would carry the victory.

Plus I'm thinking experienced scum anyway, given a lesser known player got NKed.

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

I remeber him being the strongeest proponent of ben's elimination.

What’s your take on Overworld’s hammer?

my take is he leveraged the fact I had done something like that in my last game with him, as a crutch to absolve himself of responsibility.

That doesn't imply he's necessarily scum, but it means it's not something I townread either.

[Battle Mage]

What to make of wiyvern ignoring this game? I checked and he’s active in another current game.

yeah i'd clocked it too. NAGL.

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

I remeber him being the strongeest proponent of ben's elimination.

What’s your take on Overworld’s hammer?

my take is he leveraged the fact I had done something like that in my last game with him, as a crutch to absolve himself of responsibility.

That doesn't imply he's necessarily scum, but it means it's not something I townread either.

If he’s done it before I would just think it’s impulsiveness on his part.

that's not what i said. i said he had seen ME do it before.

[Battle Mage]

here comes a curveball:

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

[Battle Mage]

I don't love Outworld on this page.

VOTE: NoPowerOverMe

I think this is a good place to park

for the time being

.

that's the sort of non-committal phrasing which i see from scum more than town. Makes the vote seem un-serious, and town shouldn't want their votes to seem un-serious, but scum might if they don't want to ruffle feathers.

if OutworldER is scum, he has experienced teammates. Would probably imply at least 1 of Titus/Flavor Leaf as scum too.

Why do you think that?

he was super bombastic and confident on Day 1. I don't think he's the type to go balls-out like that, unless he was confident his team would carry the victory.

Where do you get this impression of me? In Open 799 (the game we played together) I was also rather confident in my reads/solve though I will agree I wasn't as explosive as I was at D1 EoD this game.

I feel like you answered your own question here - you agree you played differently, so why ask something so inane as "where do you get this impression of me?" when you know we have only shared 1 game together and i've already said that's the basis of my assessment. It's a question for the sake of asking a question - more of a scum posturing move than town move.

@Ranny

I want to get into your head-space a little bit. Why do you feel perceived inconsistency in reads and other such topics (I say perceived because you obviously don't have access to my own thought processes) is scum indicative?

question to Ranny, which basically amounts to "you are voting for me, please stop that".

time for 10 am tiredposting

leanscum on NPOM and Superbowl9. Both seem to be putting forth incredibly little effort to the game, their reads and votes (what few they've put forth) are incredibly lazy.

FL probably town. I don't think scum outright locktown's such a controversial move and I see no reason for him to pocket me. Same logic for Titus.

Want to hear more from Alch, but what little they've posted seems towny.

@Titus

have your opinions on NPOM changed from yesterday? I agree with your take on SB9 but I actually feel worse about NPOM due to the fact that he's just kind of ignoring me and the main topic of discussion to push FL. Gives me bad vibes.

question to Titus which basically amounts to "please help me wagon NPOM". Also, I definitely fall in the low-effort camp, but he singles out NPOM and Superbowl only. I'm sure there are others too. Low effort doesn't mean scum though, especially in this game where scum appears to be off to a good start.

[Battle Mage]

perhaps im just a little bitter that nobody followed me onto NPOM yesterday, and suddenly now after flipping 2 power-roles, others are catching on

[Battle Mage]

Titus - my reflection on your Superbowl analysis below is... it's arguably lining up elims, but it's also fairly understandable. If someone lolhammers town, they should be the first person looked at the following day. Knowing Superbowl, I don't read so much into the "policy" stuff, as he is prone to hyperbole and being a little over-zealous at times. Not enough for a vote from me.

Spoiler: Quotes

Not sure why ben is self-voting at this stage, dont we have soooo long to deadline and he’s the first wagon? Comes off as scummy > desperate/defeated town imo

Not sure why ben is self-voting at this stage, dont we have soooo long to deadline and he’s the first wagon?

Comes off as scummy > desperate/defeated town

imo

None of the above.

Indifferent.

Indifferent people don't self vote at L-2

pedit: welp

Can we policy that tomorrow it needs to be punished from either alignment

(unless ben's scum in which case they escape with a warning)

Battle Mage is here too he knows.

but real talk at worst I hammered a VT who was playing anti-town and at best we caught scum.

Nope please do not minimize your quickhammer. The bad thing about them is that they mess up the normal flow of games/wagons and cut off our discussion time, which is especially important in this type of game where there wasn't much content to go off of

This rapid shift from we got scum wagoned to Ben is likely town, policy lynch OutWorldER is particularly jarring.

Bolded is showing the read shift.

Underlined is where Superbowl9 shows he has no interest in sorting OutWorldER if Ben flips town.

It's chaining lynches in its worst form.

[Battle Mage]

Personally,

I don’t think it’s impossible for Ben wagon to be all town.

However, off the wagon was killed, so

I’m thinking 1 maybe 2 scum max on the wagon

for clarity sake.

superbowl9, Titus, NoPowerOverMe - is the spot where one would be on that wagon.

SuperBowl kinda looks like irritated scum. And NPOM immediately went to come after me.

No way is there scum that isn’t off the wagon

, so I’ll look there in a bit.

I don’t think Titus is scum here because the town reads she stated makes sense based on her skills with wagonomics.

lots of flip-flopping here. FL goes from stating it's all town on the wagon, to 1-2 scum max on the wagon, back to being certain that it's all town on the wagon.

I'm also not mad about the idea we look away from the wagon - think there's a decent chance of scum on wagon.

[Battle Mage]

I'm not big on the Titus tunnel below. Fundamentally the conclusion doesn't bear much resemblance to the reality of what transpired. Ben was vocal, clearly scumhunting, not trying to buddy anyone, and not really hedging his bets. He was basically acting like your typical enthusiastic Day 1 townie. Titus took umbridge with his retaliation towards her, whilst at the same time calling him meek and weak. At best, not a fair assessment.

Spoiler:

Actually, I am the tiebreaking vote. Looks like I'll have to reread Ben's earlier posts to see if he was trying to do the same there and his possible motivation if true. Rannygazoo's case is simple though so I like it better all things considered.

Part of me says watch it be S v S and I am just needing to keep town together.

You should find it's me doing the same thing I did yesterday, asking logical questions to see which responses I get so I can make a more informed decision about which way to vote.

The catch is here is that I am disinclined to think anything you did was "logical" as I felt my behavior explanation was perfectly clear.

As for whether that was your goal is something I'll have to determine.

VOTE: Benhalkum

47 doesn't look like a question that will help you sort at all. Instead it's just outright shade for my aggressive behavior.

So Ranny ben and superbowl contains at least one scum, with sb being the least likely.

Non is probably scum.

Not sure that makes me think you're town. I don't think we've played together so unsure of how you typically play so I'll watch others who have.

I just want to point out, just because Titus is saying I'm town doesn't mean I automatically agree she is.

Really weird mentioning it more than once.

The paranoid part of me makes me think if she flips scum it's an attempt to get me targeted next.

That or it's an attempt to get me to lay off my suspecion as why would I want to suspect someone who's baking me as town?

These two posts are inconsistent. If you were waiting to see how others with meta react, then why do you promptly discard it?

yoVOTE: titusdidn't get the nk thing

I think Titus is town. But I am rarely listened to day 1.

I agree. The strongest impression I get out of these starting pages is that Titus is Town.

what other impressions did you get

It bothers me these are the only two post from them.

BM and I went into detail with Titus yesterday on the "NK thing" but a lot of the other players are town reading her. However, you simply gloss over that and just say it bothered you.

Why?

I know why it bothered BM and I. But this seems SUS as hell to me.

Could be distancing. There is no follow-up but that's hard to do with an inactive slot. Punt on this for now.

Looked it up.

Mini Normal 2102.

And honestly, now that you bring it up, right now you completely seem scum to me based upon your play style there and how you're being now.

This is like the fourth person you've suggested as scum with little to no townreading of anyone (maybe BM).

Seems more of a OMGUS vote than a logical one at this point. Why are you threatened by being asked a few questions?

But hey, at least you gave a reason. Not a good one, but a reason.

More shade.

Overall, I find Ben to be seeking permission to vote, being weak but shady in his stances and being rather meek.

[Battle Mage]

Personally,

I don’t think it’s impossible for Ben wagon to be all town.

However, off the wagon was killed, so

I’m thinking 1 maybe 2 scum max on the wagon

for clarity sake.

superbowl9, Titus, NoPowerOverMe - is the spot where one would be on that wagon.

SuperBowl kinda looks like irritated scum. And NPOM immediately went to come after me.

No way is there scum that isn’t off the wagon

, so I’ll look there in a bit.

I don’t think Titus is scum here because the town reads she stated makes sense based on her skills with wagonomics.

lots of flip-flopping here. FL goes from stating it's all town on the wagon, to 1-2 scum max on the wagon, back to being certain that it's all town on the wagon.

I'm also not mad about the idea we look away from the wagon - think there's a decent chance of scum on wagon.

The underlined isn't true. By saying scum must be off the wagon, he's saying the entire scumteam wasn't on the wagon. He's not saying the wagon is pure town.

How do you mean, the underlined isn't true? You are

sure

there was scum on the wagon?

[Battle Mage]

here comes a curveball:

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

How is this a curveball? I felt like multiple people this game was trying for this.

Is this what scumBattleMage looks like?

nah you wouldnt be asking that question, coz im 100% NKing you last night if i'm scum here

it was a curveball as i resisted the urge to join the momentum-wagon on NPOM, to vote with him. I'm a maverick like that.

[Battle Mage]

i forgot to UNVOTE: earlier

[Battle Mage]

If I lolhammered someone and they ended up town I would be trying to listen to others opinions more rather than trying to lead another miselimination D2.

I agree, although I think this extends to everyone who thought obvtown Ben was scum.

[Battle Mage]

Personally,

I don’t think it’s impossible for Ben wagon to be all town.

However, off the wagon was killed, so

I’m thinking 1 maybe 2 scum max on the wagon

for clarity sake.

superbowl9, Titus, NoPowerOverMe - is the spot where one would be on that wagon.

SuperBowl kinda looks like irritated scum. And NPOM immediately went to come after me.

No way is there scum that isn’t off the wagon

, so I’ll look there in a bit.

I don’t think Titus is scum here because the town reads she stated makes sense based on her skills with wagonomics.

lots of flip-flopping here. FL goes from stating it's all town on the wagon, to 1-2 scum max on the wagon, back to being certain that it's all town on the wagon.

I'm also not mad about the idea we look away from the wagon - think there's a decent chance of scum on wagon.

Yeah, I’m a flip flopper.

People say the day isn’t over until I’ve pushed every single player as scum twice.

i have seen you flip-flop as town.

[Battle Mage]

Flavor Leaf and OutworldER look like they could be buddies.

I’ll be the buddy of anyone who hammers outta nowhere in that position.

he literally learnt it from me. i'm not sure if i should be proud or ashamed.

[Battle Mage]

here comes a curveball:

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

How is this a curveball? I felt like multiple people this game was trying for this.

Is this what scumBattleMage looks like?

nah you wouldnt be asking that question, coz im 100% NKing you last night if i'm scum here

it was a curveball as i resisted the urge to join the momentum-wagon on NPOM, to vote with him. I'm a maverick like that.

Why would you night kill me?

I was “the main person pushing Ben”

That’s the buzz line I heard.

I don’t think scumYou kills me here ever, not Night 1.

My default scum strategy is to nightkill the best players so i can dayelim the weak players. watch out

[Battle Mage]

If it isn’t clearly obvious right now.

I’m a wall, and scum are trying to break me down. I don’t know where, but at least one of Battle Mage, NPOM, Super Bowl are scum here.

Neat

im scum because i briefly voted you? you'll need to try a little harder than that

[Battle Mage]

Flavor Leaf and OutworldER look like they could be buddies.

why?

[Battle Mage]

I'm doing a FL on FL.

I went from thinking he could be scum, to thinking he's probably town, to thinking he might be scum again due to his disproportionate OMGUSy defensiveness on this page.

[Battle Mage]

eh, the previous page, you spammers.

[Battle Mage]

off the back of post 420, I'm willing to give OutWorldER another day.

[Battle Mage]

off the back of post 420, I'm willing to give OutWorldER another day.

Wow really? I thought 420 was pretty bad

nah I liked it - good effort and sensible response. My struggle with him remains that he feels way different here to the last game we played where he was town.

[Battle Mage]

I'm doing a FL on FL.

I went from thinking he could be scum, to thinking he's probably town, to thinking he might be scum again due to his disproportionate OMGUSy defensiveness on this page.

What do you mean?

I started pushing NPOM as scum first.

I don't know what your push on NPOM has to do with my post above?

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

I remeber him being the strongeest proponent of ben's elimination.

This is why I’m town.

Everyone sheeped me. I’m town who people saw me push, and might I add, I didn’t push Ben first, i pushed him after his weird posts in relation to me.

Scum came after I voted.

Here was the actual reaction to your post. You trying to push it as something else is interesting.

Interesting that in the post you quote above, you instinctively concluded that the wagon did have scum on it. now, not so much.

[Battle Mage]

I have had absolutely zero OMGUS this game.

Having actual reasons to vote someone who is going against you is not OMGUS. OMGUS is voting or

pushing someone specifically because they pushed you

.

remind me why you think I'm scum again?

I'm being slightly disingenuous when I say "remind me", because I don't think you've said yet, and that's one reason I called out your OMGUS. Not that OMGUS really means much. So I don't know really why you're going to such lengths to deny it?

[Battle Mage]

I have had absolutely zero OMGUS this game.

Having actual reasons to vote someone who is going against you is not OMGUS. OMGUS is voting or

pushing someone specifically because they pushed you

.

remind me why you think I'm scum again?

I'm being slightly disingenuous when I say "remind me", because I don't think you've said yet, and that's one reason I called out your OMGUS. Not that OMGUS really means much. So I don't know really why you're going to such lengths to deny it?

Eh, i don’t remember either. I don’t know if that’s a good sign, or a bad sign, but i don’t feel like pushing you :shrug:

why would you feel like pushing me though? you havent suggested i've done anything scummy thus far, so the continued inference/threat you might push me, because I called your alignment into doubt, just feels a bit odd eh?

[Battle Mage]

My reads do not equal if i think they are town or scum. It’s not that surface level.

[Battle Mage]

I will confess that my reads do correspond with what i actually think, most of the time. I'm just that surface level.

[Battle Mage]

I like NPOM's fighting spirit here

[Battle Mage]

im sure if i ISO him, ill conclude he's scum again, but in real time i feel less inclined.

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: wiyvern

[Battle Mage]

im ok with another short day now

[Battle Mage]

lurker, promised 'content' which vibes more as "i'll post some words to keep myself out of trouble" than "i actually care about finding scum here"

[Battle Mage]

NPOM my mindset is I want to punish poor behavior. Idrc if a quickhammer comes from town or scum just the possibility that it could be from scum is enough for me to say I don't want to allow that play to happen in any game I'm in. The other side is that this quickhammer has valid reasons that seem to indicate it's likely from town, as FL has (I think I didn't bother to read it because like I said i don't care what alignment it comes from) described.

Based on that he's looking at me and you pushing that today + me/you/titus/

bm hopping on the wagon

that got a quickhammer, since middle votes are more likely to be scummy than a quickhammer in that situation. I disagree with that because I think VCA is bad (not because of the quality of the VCA, which you'll have to talk to titus about) but both of my beliefs here are (i think) in the minority of MS users and are 100% subjective, so FL's take here is also valid.

i wasnt on that fking wagon!

[Battle Mage]

And I have pushed you, Titus, and Super Bowl as likely having scum in it.

Great. Let's do superbowl9 as he's in my scumpool. Otherwise, I am joining BM on wivyern.

come on Titus, sheep my read

[Battle Mage]

Thoses who self vote don't have credibility. He deserved his elimination. I disagree with how the elimination happened.

VOTE: OutworldER

in fairness to Ben, he self-voted because the wagon on him was horseshit. Self-voting is never good, but he was probably getting eliminated anyway given how it went down.

anyway, time to join me on Wiyvern

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Superbowl

Let’s see what happens

why are you so reluctant to join the people's wagon on Wiyvern?

[Battle Mage]

Super Bowl or Wiveryn it looks like is what’s gonna happen today. Interesting NPOM seems to have avoided being a top suspicion.

NPOM was scummier on Day 1.

[Battle Mage]

NPOM my mindset is I want to punish poor behavior. Idrc if a quickhammer comes from town or scum just the possibility that it could be from scum is enough for me to say I don't want to allow that play to happen in any game I'm in. The other side is that this quickhammer has valid reasons that seem to indicate it's likely from town, as FL has (I think I didn't bother to read it because like I said i don't care what alignment it comes from) described.

Based on that he's looking at me and you pushing that today + me/you/titus/

bm hopping on the wagon

that got a quickhammer, since middle votes are more likely to be scummy than a quickhammer in that situation. I disagree with that because I think VCA is bad (not because of the quality of the VCA, which you'll have to talk to titus about) but both of my beliefs here are (i think) in the minority of MS users and are 100% subjective, so FL's take here is also valid.

i wasnt on that fking wagon!

Not my words just summarizing FL

FL accused me of being on that Ben wagon!?

[Battle Mage]

I have a tendancy to look awkward on D1, but I'm sure I'm not alone on that.

I believe you. Now get on the same page as me, and let's flip Wiyvern.

[Battle Mage]

Why wiyvern?

scratch that, we're going Hessian!

VOTE: Hessian

I just read her last game and...she's actually a very good, articulate, and active player as town.

hasn't shown anything here so far.

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: wiyvern

Lol why he’s not going to see it

keep up Ranny, we're putting the heat in hessian!

[Battle Mage]

i think there's something reassuring in the way NPOM joined the Hessian wagon without question, but was more hesitant on Wiyvern. Presumably those suspicious of NPOM can get behind the Hessian wagon on that basis.

I am driving consensus Titus.

[Battle Mage]

Why wiyvern?

scratch that, we're going Hessian!

VOTE: Hessian

I just read her last game and...she's actually a very good, articulate, and active player as town.

hasn't shown anything here so far.

Hessian is VLA.

? so?

[Battle Mage]

Hessian + Titus maybe?

[Battle Mage]

i think there's something reassuring in the way NPOM joined the Hessian wagon without question, but was more hesitant on Wiyvern. Presumably those suspicious of NPOM can get behind the Hessian wagon on that basis.

I am driving consensus Titus.

makes me think Wiveryn over Hessian as a partner for NPOM.

nah i'd say the opposite. scum don't tend to need much talking into distancing their teammates. although im still leaning NPOM town now anyway I think.

[Battle Mage]

i think there's something reassuring in the way NPOM joined the Hessian wagon without question, but was more hesitant on Wiyvern. Presumably those suspicious of NPOM can get behind the Hessian wagon on that basis.

I am driving consensus Titus.

Over my dead body

lol a passionate defence of Hessian, but why?

[Battle Mage]

maybe we've got one

[Battle Mage]

guys, focus, hessian!

[Battle Mage]

i think there's something reassuring in the way NPOM joined the Hessian wagon without question, but was more hesitant on Wiyvern. Presumably those suspicious of NPOM can get behind the Hessian wagon on that basis.

I am driving consensus Titus.

Over my dead body

lol a passionate defence of Hessian, but why?

I was referring to you driving town. Pushing Hessian based on a lack of content because meta is dumb when the slot has been vla the whole game.

There's wiyvern who actually has scummy content. Same with non.

It's just superbowl9 wiyvern and non.

what's your problem with me driving the town? So far you've driven 1 mis-elim already, and it's possible you are just scum, whereas I am universally townread (as always).

[Battle Mage]

i think there's something reassuring in the way NPOM joined the Hessian wagon without question, but was more hesitant on Wiyvern. Presumably those suspicious of NPOM can get behind the Hessian wagon on that basis.

I am driving consensus Titus.

Over my dead body

lol a passionate defence of Hessian, but why?

I was referring to you driving town. Pushing Hessian based on a lack of content because meta is dumb when the slot has been vla the whole game.

There's wiyvern who actually has scummy content. Same with non.

It's just superbowl9 wiyvern and non.

what's your problem with me driving the town? So far you've driven 1 mis-elim already, and it's possible you are just scum, whereas I am universally townread (as always).

Neutral lean town at best this time.

you're just salty and OMGUSy coz i scumread you

[Battle Mage]

i think there's something reassuring in the way NPOM joined the Hessian wagon without question, but was more hesitant on Wiyvern. Presumably those suspicious of NPOM can get behind the Hessian wagon on that basis.

I am driving consensus Titus.

makes me think Wiveryn over Hessian as a partner for NPOM.

Because BM said he had iso'd Hessian, he didn't say that for Wiveryn.

i think you mean meta'd, but yes, true!

[Battle Mage]

i think there's something reassuring in the way NPOM joined the Hessian wagon without question, but was more hesitant on Wiyvern. Presumably those suspicious of NPOM can get behind the Hessian wagon on that basis.

I am driving consensus Titus.

Over my dead body

lol a passionate defence of Hessian, but why?

I was referring to you driving town. Pushing Hessian based on a lack of content because meta is dumb when the slot has been vla the whole game.

There's wiyvern who actually has scummy content. Same with non.

It's just superbowl9 wiyvern and non.

what's your problem with me driving the town? So far you've driven 1 mis-elim already, and it's possible you are just scum, whereas I am universally townread (as always).

*points to where your vote is*
*points to your reluctance to vote any scum*

I don't want anyone driving who is flat out wrong. Flavor Leaf and I will drive.

don't be silly. IF you're town, you clearly have no idea if i'm right or wrong. our records speak for themselves.

[Battle Mage]

i think there's something reassuring in the way NPOM joined the Hessian wagon without question, but was more hesitant on Wiyvern. Presumably those suspicious of NPOM can get behind the Hessian wagon on that basis.

I am driving consensus Titus.

Over my dead body

lol a passionate defence of Hessian, but why?

I was referring to you driving town. Pushing Hessian based on a lack of content because meta is dumb when the slot has been vla the whole game.

There's wiyvern who actually has scummy content. Same with non.

It's just superbowl9 wiyvern and non.

what's your problem with me driving the town? So far you've driven 1 mis-elim already, and it's possible you are just scum, whereas I am universally townread (as always).

Neutral lean town at best this time.

you're just salty and OMGUSy coz i scumread you

No reason why that couldn't have come from scum you.

i mean it's more likely it comes from town me though, surely? why would scum-BM bother upsetting you when you were townreading me as always?

[Battle Mage]

I don’t feel like enough has been said about why Andres was nightkilled.

The fact that it was him, relatively inactive, and not someone driving the game hints that 1) his few posts were right, and 2) there’s a more experienced player on the scum team. The only real scumread he had was superbowl9. I know it’s WIFOM, but when I read a finished game and look at the mafia chat and why they chose their targets, usually the good wine is firmly in front of me.

i dont think superbowl is sweating andresvmb here. it might imply the more experienced players are scum though, as newbie scum normally kills experienced town.

[Battle Mage]

Y'all, we should mass claim.

NPOM first.

lmao. FL is town then perhaps.

[Battle Mage]

however, Battle Mage can attest, I'm always down for a good mass claim.

haha yes!

I can kick off - I'm a Neighbour (formerly VT) - thanks to our deceased comrade Andres

[Battle Mage]

I can tell you, nothing sucks harder than being a lone neighbour, but at least i have a PT now.

[Battle Mage]

I can start off the massclaim

I'm scum

VOTE: superbowl

i missed this!

[Battle Mage]

lol I mean, we have a dead neighbouriser. I can confirm, he targetted me last night. It doesn't confirm my alignment one way or the other. But I can say, via the PT, Andres (like Ben) thought I was the towniest player.

[Battle Mage]

I don’t know the neighbor mechanic. Can’t scum be a neighbor?

he literally flipped town already? unless you mean me, in which case I assume so, yes.

[Battle Mage]

it is kinda weird that it's just now coming up

it's weird that i waited until a massclaim to claim?

[Battle Mage]

I'm not implicating him in the death, just wondering what the chances are of this actually being true are.

i'd say, in the absence of a counter-claim, it's fairly likely to be true?

And why would I lie about it?

[Battle Mage]

it is kinda weird that it's just now coming up

it's weird that i waited until a massclaim to claim?

oh, we aren't really massclaiming, but this does make sense then.

Might as well full send then.

well shit. i shot my shot i guess...

[Battle Mage]

lol I mean, we have a dead neighbouriser. I can confirm, he targetted me last night. It doesn't confirm my alignment one way or the other. But I can say, via the PT, Andres (like Ben) thought I was the towniest player.

the neighborhood was created prior to Andres dying? I thought he was a neighborizer, where you get the neighborhood when he successfully targets.

it happened at the same time. At the start of Day, I was added to the neighbourhood, and Andres was confirmed dead. So now I'm a neighbour, with no special powers, in a defunct PT by myself.

[Battle Mage]

but how did he say you were the towniest?

he said it in the PT before he died. or do you mean, how did he describe it?

[Battle Mage]

I'm not implicating him in the death, just wondering what the chances are of this actually being true are.

i'd say, in the absence of a counter-claim, it's fairly likely to be true?

And why would I lie about it?

How could anyone counterclaim since your neighbor is dead unless they watched/tracked?

lol if I am pretending to be a neighbour for some idiotic reason, the real person who got neighbourised could claim it.

I'm baffled you're actually trying to frame this as AI somehow.

[Battle Mage]

Or they were recruited as a neighbor I guess. But any of those situations are highly unlikely.

we have a neighbouriser

you are suggesting i fakeclaimed the person they targetted

it doesn't strike me as highly unlikely in that scenario that the person who was actually targetted would just say so.

it also means nothing in terms of alignments anyway

which begs the question - why would i lie?

[Battle Mage]

but how did he say you were the towniest?

he said it in the PT before he died. or do you mean, how did he describe it?

Why was the PT created before he targeted you, is what I’m asking.

dunno, he had it since start of day 1, but didnt post in it until start of night 1

[Battle Mage]

It just seems a wierd claim on surface level since your neighbor is the only one night killed so far. Not saying it's not true.

wouldnt that be true whoever was targetted though? like you know there is a dead neighbouriser, you can infer they targetted someone. Why would it be weird for someone to then acknowledge that they were targetted? You seem to be implying me being targetted is linked to him being dead, when the two are mechanically unrelated. It's still possible I'm scum, but the fact I got neighbourised doesn't make it more likely (I'd argue it makes it less, given both dead town players had me as their top townread).

[Battle Mage]

who is claiming next?

[Battle Mage]

I'm not saying they're mechanically related, I'm saying it's possible you're using a townie's death to validate your claim. The fact that andres can't back up your claim for you makes me second guess you. Probability indicates you are telling the truth, but it just seems like a strange string of events to me.

it doesnt validate my claim though, does it? If i hadnt been neighbourised, I'd be vanilla. Because I was neighbourised, I'm vanilla with a PT. what difference does it make?? of course he can't validate the claim - he is dead - he couldn't validate the claim of whoever he neighbourised. Are you saying you would have second guessed anyone who claimed to be the target? because that's what your stance implies, and it's frankly ridiculous.

[Battle Mage]

lol even if i got counterclaimed so scum could 1v1 me or something, the question remains - why does BM pretend to be neighbourised when it achieves nothing in terms of towncred, and he is already unanimously townread? it makes zero strategic sense.

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Nopoweroverme

i changed my mind.

[Battle Mage]

I'm second guessing it because neighbors generally can validate each others claims, and in this case it can't, and the fact that andres died n1 just seems wierd to me.

neighbours are not masons. If Andres was alive, all he could say is "I targetted BM last night, and he is a lovely chap". not alignment confirmation.

[Battle Mage]

too late bud, you're done

[Battle Mage]

Yeah, I mean how dare I question the idea of likely the only role that has the ability of having verbal confirmation the confirmer is dead? I already said you're probably being truthful by probability why are you overreacting?

There are two ways to prove it: have andres confirm it, or have everyone else confirm that they weren’t neighborized.

Everyone is letting the claim stand instead of counterclaiming, so what else do you want?

WHY DOES IT EVEN MATTER? BEING A NEIGHBOUR IS NOT REMOTELY ALIGNMENT INDICATIVE! omg...

[Battle Mage]

im seriously regretting this massclaim, what a load of shit

[Battle Mage]

thanks man, that does make me feel better

[Battle Mage]

let's run NPOM up, and see if he tries to claim neighbour.

[Battle Mage]

lol dude you're actually trolling me now

there is a 0% likelihood BM fakeclaims neighbour. If somebody actually tried to counter-claim to 1v1 with me, I think it's fairly obvious they'd be elimmed first anyway, so it wouldn't matter.

To fully answer your question, I'd find it hilarious if you fakeclaimed neighbour after concluding you believe the claim but also subtly shading me.

To be perfectly blunt, I just think you haven't really understood what a neighbour claim means, and I'm erring more towards your mistake being an example of unbridled scum opportunism, rather than bloodthirsty misguided town.

[Battle Mage]

it's a sweet irony that half the reason I was letting NPOM off the hook today was because that was what Andresvmb would have wanted.

[Battle Mage]

^ this

[Battle Mage]

I’m a little suspicious of Battle Mage.

OMGUS

Andresvmb seemed to townread Titus.

not exactly. I can confirm, using my super neighbour powers, that Andresvmb was pretty wary of Titus after the Ben-flip. However his solve was:

Superbowl-Hessian-Flavor Leaf

[Battle Mage]

I'll claim because I'm not going to make much of an effort to shake the wagon off, I'm FV (gave to titus). I'm fine if you want to hammer as well, already pretty much said everything I wanted to about the game

you're claiming

town

fruit vendor...and you gave fruit to Titus!? eh I don't like that matey

[Battle Mage]

Yikes, was going to unvote but Rannygazoo beat me to it.

*sigh* it is Hessian

lucky Titus is protecting you...

[Battle Mage]

I feel like if NPOM is town here, scum would have just railroaded him? the lack of pressure makes me think he's scum, or maybe he's town and scum is incompetent.

[Battle Mage]

I'll claim because I'm not going to make much of an effort to shake the wagon off, I'm FV (gave to titus). I'm fine if you want to hammer as well, already pretty much said everything I wanted to about the game

you're claiming

town

fruit vendor...and you gave fruit to Titus!? eh I don't like that matey

Why not?

you protested a lot about being NKed N1 in all your games. You're the last person I'm giving fruit as a town fruit vendor - isn't the whole idea of the role to target someone unlikely to be killed?

of course a scum fruit vendor would know you wouldnt die

[Battle Mage]

I feel like if NPOM is town here, scum would have just railroaded him? the lack of pressure makes me think he's scum, or maybe he's town and scum is incompetent.

Then why did you just shade superbowl?

...im capable of thinking 2 people

might

be scum for completely independent reasons

[Battle Mage]

I feel like if NPOM is town here, scum would have just railroaded him? the lack of pressure makes me think he's scum,

or maybe he's town and scum is incompetent.

Im pretty competent but I appreciate the compliment, thank you. If you want to eliminate me for being competent go right ahead

.

if you're town here, literally trying to claim scum....can you understand my frustration?

[Battle Mage]

yeah ok whatever

VOTE: superbowl

sorry mate

(it's only -1)

[Battle Mage]

You can just hammer me and find out if im scum or not

plus there's always that 5% chance you flip mafia goon or something, and we bag Titus-scum too.

[Battle Mage]

Not going to self hammer but I think the guy who unvoted should

i'll give you kudos if you self hammer so i can see a flip before i sleep

[Battle Mage]

NPOM - i said you could be town, and scum was incompetent for not pushing you.

you responded by getting defensive about the fact i said scum was incompetent.

i'm not misrepping you, i'm just absolutely fking baffled by most of the things you say. it's like you're desperate to get elimmed

[Battle Mage]

Not going to self hammer but I think the guy who unvoted should

i'll give you kudos if you self hammer so i can see a flip before i sleep

Lol I don't want titus to be able to say "ohhhh my vca conveniently doesnt work because there were 2 self votes", also I think I've self hammered enough recently

this is an excellent reason to self-hammer. we wont spend an inordinate amount of time tomorrow arguing about VCA.

[Battle Mage]

UNVOTE:

*shrug* we're back to the drawing board then?

UNVOTE:

wake me up when we are doing something

[Battle Mage]

There you go again. I think you're the only player here who thinks I'm "desperate to be elimmed." or what I say is "baffling".

No, other players have said similar, but concluded you wouldn't actually play like such obv-scum if you were scum. I have sympathy with that.

[Battle Mage]

i guess i'll go back to VOTE: NPOM then

I'm not super fussy at this stage, day is stagnant.

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Titus

[Battle Mage]

i'm so demotivated by this game right now. it feels like we have good players but nobody is really trying. Titus browbeating me over nothing whenever I post anything is...essentially what she did in her last game with me as town. we have experienced players who could be orchestrating a clever strategy, lurky players being given a free pass, and openly scummy players being given a free pass. In that context, it's difficult to get any useful info to evaluate anyone. Superbowl is the closest thing we have to ending the day and moving on, but he feels like a second-rate elim. really the only reason to elim him is the dodgy claim and apathy. /rant over

my top scumread is hessian. aint gonna get it.

[Battle Mage]

Why the unvote titus?

i'll go out on a limb and say it's Titus trying to be unconventional and deciding that as soon as a good reason to vote you comes up, that's the time to unvote.

[Battle Mage]

I wouldn't be against a BM wagon but I like where I am and I'm wondering why BM is focusing on me and not SB9.

I don't even think I'm against a BM wagon.

Look dude, in my heart of hearts, I don't actually think you're scum. I just find your play, where you seem to be trying to make yourself look as scummy as possible, incredibly frustrating. plus my neighbour thinks you're town based on some meta or something.

[Battle Mage]

Explain why town would target a high probability night kill to give fruit too?

High probability is in the eye of the beholder aint it? My read was right so unless you're suggesting I'm scum who gave fruit to my buddy why wouldn't I nk who I gave fruit to? Isn't that the whole point of this?

i dont think you, as scum, would give fruit to somebody the same night you NK them. More likely that as scum, you would give fruit to Titus, knowing that would win her favour.

[Battle Mage]

plus my neighbour thinks you're town based on some meta or something.

I will second this you just kind of have to get used to the playstyle

ok can we just do Hessian then?

[Battle Mage]

I admit I'm not a typical MS Mafia player. I've been told I'm frustrating before. It doesn't make what I say illogical or that I'm scummy.

take it from me, lots of what you have said this game has been illogical, and surface-level scummy. but let's just leave it there.

[Battle Mage]

ok im gonna take the plunge again

VOTE: Hessian

[Battle Mage]

@BM: the scummy day 1, the night kill on his wagon, and the push for a PL when there are better thing to do all add up to a pretty solid case against sb9.

It seems like you’re scumreading hessian because she was V/LA over a major regional holiday? I don’t see a real case here.

I agree with you about NPOM, although I’m not willing to put him in my town reads. It kind of feels like he’s playing a different game than the rest of us.

nah, im scumreading hessian because in her towngame she was super motivated and approached the game like a super sleuth.

I don't see that here, and I don't think the fact she had to catch up a bit is a sufficient excuse.

and her latest post about wishing she had unvoted at -1 was LAMIST territory - again, that just wasn't the vibe I got from her as town. She was much more assertive.

[Battle Mage]

if superbowl, outworld and npom are all town, where the fuck does that leave us? Flavor Leaf and the lurker express?

[Battle Mage]

Not buying it. I still think there’s a decent probability of scum being in {hessian, wyvern} but we have more obvious scum we can eliminate today.

i am well known for despising letting lurkers survive numerous gamedays without doing anything.

but the sad reality is there's no consensus for anything, despite my best efforts

[Battle Mage]

if superbowl, outworld and npom are all town, where the fuck does that leave us? Flavor Leaf and the lurker express?

Or titus. Titus or you + a lurker is where my mind is right now, but I don't think me pushing either of you is happening anytime soon

i feel like this is exactly how it would go if me and Titus were scum together.

[Battle Mage]

plus my neighbour thinks you're town based on some meta or something.

I will second this you just kind of have to get used to the playstyle

ok can we just do Hessian then?

I'm being stubborn and not moving off my policy unless i reeeeeaally need to. I think I will only do me or quickhammer person today (I can never remember the name) which is why I think you and the other black and white avi should just stay on me, titus will hammer eventually

dude are you actually scum trying to do me a favour here?

[Battle Mage]

alright let's just do it

VOTE: superbowl9

-1 again

[Battle Mage]

SB9|BM|Wivyern is my solve right now.

pfft, if i was scum with SB here, we'd have probably already won.

[Battle Mage]

Why the unvote titus?

i'll go out on a limb and say it's Titus trying to be unconventional and deciding that as soon as a good reason to vote you comes up, that's the time to unvote.

I don't like your opportunistic posting. At first you're for hessian. Then it's NPOM. Then it's superbowl9 at the same time. The wagons being S v S makes no sense. You make zero attempt to resolve this conflict at all. Then when I call you out on it, you go back to Hessian.

It doesn't read like you're solving but flailing instead, particularly with your discredit of me before finding out why I scumread you now.

While claiming we need more data to get an elimination off, you're not actually doing anything to get it. You're not showing a consistent thought process or any attempt to resolve the conflicts you report to have. Instead, its on to the next target.

lol i'm just trying to do something. there are good reasons to elim lots of people, and im fairly ambivalent between them, but i do want more flips for info.

[Battle Mage]

i wish i hadnt claimed vanilla, or this wouldve been a great game to eat an NK in

[Battle Mage]

Titus can you hammer please and just 1v1 BM tomorrow please

this sounds like the least fun scenario, can i pass?

[Battle Mage]

SB9|BM|Wivyern is my solve right now.

I actually can see this. BM being a superbowl9 partner makes sense with BM's recent posting being god awful and him not wanting sb until it took off.

i'm completely obvtown here

BM ignored my case on superbowl9 because he hadn't caught up (when he had the whole nightphase to do so). Despite his alleged lack of catch up, he had the time to pick a fight with me.

This is not true - i responded to your case on superbowl, and said it was really bad.

His push on Hessian is bad.

My argument is good - you just don't want to elim Hessian, despite being quite content to look at other low posters. You haven't explained why.

He comes to superbowl9 only when its popular, having little substance to explain the shift.

I voted superbowl cause of his claim and the fact we could actually flip him. not sure if that's the same thing

[Battle Mage]

Titus can you hammer please and just 1v1 BM tomorrow please

No. I'm not hammering anyone until we get replacements in.

This will give them and Hessian no excuse not to be caught up and give content.

Hessian did give some content. didn't you read it?

[Battle Mage]

I feel like BM is bussing SB9 here

i am not

[Battle Mage]

I feel like BM is bussing SB9 here

Like I said, it's quite possible. Superbowl9 has just been rolling over apathetic today, not telling us who is scum (a policy lynch doesn't count). Given the evidence, I'm ok with nuking Superbowl9. I just feel BM is a better chance of netting scum.

Regardless, we need subs in here.

I think you're just being opportunistic, and picking on me because i'm not trying which makes me an easy target

[Battle Mage]

maybe it is just Titus and the lurkers. consistent with her constant appeals for replacements haha

[Battle Mage]

I'm townreading BM because he's mirroring my thoughts in a way that seems natural.

I expressed the same sentiment about day end as town in Mini Theme 2172 and got pilloried for it. viewtopic.php?p=12222345#p12222345 Might be interesting to go back now and look at who was scum on my wagon in that game.

that's fair. both dead town players had me as top townread too.

[Battle Mage]

Math is here

[Battle Mage]

You are a 2-Shot Neighborizer, and aligned with the Town. You may post in the thread and vote as you see fit.
Abilities:
~ Twice during the game, at Night, you may neighborize a player by sending a PM to the moderator. If your action succeeds, regardless of whether you live or die, that player will be added to your Neighborhood at the start of the next Day.

Hood existed people get added.

I expect BM with Andres’s last reads.

I'll let this play out. I have my own opinions but it's not worth getting in the way here since I misunderstood partially. I still think you're going off an assumption and should look for more persuasive methods.

Even if you're assumption is wrong, BM claiming to be the target is just noise without data.

What assumption am I going off of?

BM claimed something, I am verifying the claim. What “assumption” is there since no one counter claimed? If someone did BM would be lock scum.

you're both better than this. and we have already bled this topic dry, but to briefly summarise:

I was neighbourised last night, and claimed today.
It has no bearing whatsoever on my alignment.
The hypothetical benefit for scum-BM fakeclaiming it, would I guess be being able to claim a dead townie's reads (in this economy, not worth much, more to the pity)
The hypothetical risk for scum-BM fakeclaiming it, is being counter-claimed and looking like a tart.

So to be clear, I'd have to be a moron to fakeclaim neighbour here, because it wouldn't benefit me in the least. Therefore if someone did counterclaim, I clearly wouldn't be "lock-scum". I guess it's then a question of who is the dumbass who wants a 1v1.

i genuinely wish i hadnt bothered claiming honestly, because it's just wasted so much energy.

[Battle Mage]

lol I mean, we have a dead neighbouriser. I can confirm, he targetted me last night. It doesn't confirm my alignment one way or the other. But I can say, via the PT, Andres (like Ben) thought I was the towniest player.

Aha but it isn’t an unfair question.

Andres divulged reads to BM with his own words.

So asking for said reads is not an unfair question.

With those why BM should be apparent.

BM is being a smartass there.

There's no possible way Andres divulged anything. Andres would be dead before any PT with BM opened.

Nope. Hood existed based on TGP’s flip post and says add to.

And why are you defending your scumread? If I am wrong and BM is joking can’t he say so?

Mafia is a search for truth. Period. If you were talking tone or some shit, I wouldn't interject at all.

I'll recheck the flip post.

not only is Titus wrong here, but i'm not sure why she didn't make this claim when we discussed it earlier. I was quite clear about how the neighbourhood gimmick worked, and Titus never questionned it, and then randomly asserts later that I had 'lied'.

[Battle Mage]

That’s a lot of words for I am not sharing Andres’s reads.

???

i already did, what are you talking about?

[Battle Mage]

Neither of us believed you fake claimed being the neighborhood target.

Mathblade's wanting to know the dead giy's reads.

i have pages to catch up, sorry but Math can read the thread.

[Battle Mage]

I don’t know the neighbor mechanic. Can’t scum be a neighbor?

They can. It all depends on who the original person targets.

The BM choice is odd and maybe being able to see all of Andres’s thoughts not just selected ones can piece it together.

VOTE: Battle Mage

I will tunnel you to death if you don’t explain.

he targetted me cause i was the towniest player apparently. i'd rather you actually helped, rather than tunnelling me. this game is painful enough as it is being tunnelled by Titus. I could do with you Mathblading this.

[Battle Mage]

That’s a lot of words for I am not sharing Andres’s reads.

???

i already did, what are you talking about?

Link them then. I skimmed could have missed it.

Where is Andres says
X is town Y is scum go vote Y.

*sigh* from recollection, his hero-solve was Superbowl-Hessian-Flavor Leaf. he was wary of Titus too but not as far as a full scumread.

[Battle Mage]

The possible assumption has just been deemed impossible. Namely that Andres could not have posted in the hood because it was created after his death, but it was still made because of the text of the role. Thus negating any reads BM would be able to share.

Here, BM has admitted Andres got at least one post off.

"admitted"? ffs Titus, I claimed that he has posted several things, like 10 pages ago.

this is hopelessly dull

[Battle Mage]

BACK! and caught up. This game seems fun.

Willingness to vote from least to most

Titus
Napalm
SuperBase
Hessian
Outwer
Ranny/non im/alchy <- true neutral
BM
Flavor Leaf

with a big ol'
VOTE: flavor leaf to go with it

My actual solve here is Flav/Outwer/alchy but you could sub BM in for any of them I think

Not trying to do the whole curse of competency thing but I don't expect to come into a game with this much content and have my big boys be the least invested. Flavo I've got a story in my head about, BM just seems wrong.

SuperB got killed for this shit recently as town, not allowing it. I think BM was in that game? Iirc we both got NK'd (I should really check to see if that game ended)

napalm is brasher than titus if scum, what with the constantly attacking higher profile players, and I don't really see that from scum here when the majority seems cool with this superB bullshit.

@Titus gimme a flavor wagon.

I just seem wrong?

[Battle Mage]

however, Battle Mage can attest, I'm always down for a good mass claim.

haha yes!

I can kick off - I'm a Neighbour (formerly VT) - thanks to our deceased comrade Andres

HA what? this is funny.

Anyone who can counter this should. There are literally no stakes.

I'm townread BM for this, Titus.

Based off this post and who died I am sus of Titus + BM. Andres’s ISO seems to heavily imply they’d neighborize Titus.

@Titus if you’re town why would Andres neighborize BM instead of you and why are you not analyzing that?

you realise Andres is dead and flipped town right? i have no idea what the analysis you propose, would achieve.

[Battle Mage]

Who you even Voting anymore bud?

superbowl i think, largely to end this bloody day

[Battle Mage]

Here's my alternative proposition to yeeting me: we put our finger guns down towards others who are at least usefully contributing and get the quickhammerer out, then solve tomorrow because I think me/BM/titus/Math/FL are good enough to figure something out

the arrival of Math gave me some momentary confidence

[Battle Mage]

@MathBlade @BM

I found a picture of us.

[Battle Mage]

Pretty sure based on this Titus maybe trying to bus Battle Mage here. It’s a gut feeling I will have to see if it matches up with the thread later.

Also down to flip BM and if BM is scum elimming Titus.

if superbowl, outworld and npom are all town, where the fuck does that leave us? Flavor Leaf and the lurker express?

Or titus. Titus or you + a lurker is where my mind is right now, but I don't think me pushing either of you is happening anytime soon

Titus can you hammer please and just 1v1 BM tomorrow please

Titus BM SB9 change my mind.

I kinda want Titus or BM as SB9 I am least sure of.

Well, Titus could have been the kill going into n1. Asking not to be killed creates WIFOM that scum might just take to simplify things. If I had to pick someone for a night action and I wanted them to survive, I might not have gone with Titus. I didn’t think about it too hard because it was out of my hands, but this is another thing that points to sb9 as scum.

I'm town man.

Imho no. If I was scum, I never kill someone who expresses a fear of dying. That’s a newb level play for many reasons. The andres kill means someone experienced did it.

agree

[Battle Mage]

I don’t know the neighbor mechanic. Can’t scum be a neighbor?

They can. It all depends on who the original person targets.

The BM choice is odd and maybe being able to see all of Andres’s thoughts not just selected ones can piece it together.

VOTE: Battle Mage

I will tunnel you to death if you don’t explain.

To be fair, I scumread BM and that's an unfair question to him. No one can explain why BM was targeted.

Scumread BM for noise by claiming that but there's no way to know if or why Andres targeted BM.

you scumread me for noise? because i claimed, and then a bunch of ppl misunderstood?

[Battle Mage]

I do not have a high tolerance for toxicity. This is a game, so treat it as such. Personal attacks are not tolerated and will earn you consequences.

--Please keep this in mind.

BM is being a smartass

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Ranny

BM can live today for passing a humor check. Game needs levity and activity.

yay, I will cheer up then.

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Ranny

BM can live today for passing a humor check. Game needs levity and activity.

Not happening.

We are sorting BM.

You never intended to elim him is my hunch.

Only question is if you’re trying to appear dumb because reasons and want SB9 or you’re scum with BM.

you could sort me by reading my posts rather than elimming me though?

[Battle Mage]

My townread on Alch is also fading, but that could be turkey coma.

Why are you so desperate to not elim SB9 or BM?

Both are fine elim candidates.

Math, if you're town, please start doing some good reads.

[Battle Mage]

BM, do you think Math has a funny bone or did it get lost in the Pi?

I wouldnt have said he's a humorous character by nature. But I was a fan of his play in that large theme we all did. Even though he was filthy scum all along.

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Ranny

BM can live today for passing a humor check. Game needs levity and activity.

Not happening.

We are sorting BM.

You never intended to elim him is my hunch.

Only question is if you’re trying to appear dumb because reasons and want SB9 or you’re scum with BM.

you could sort me by reading my posts rather than elimming me though?

I did skim them.

I was not impressed.

I asked questions that should have been addressed earlier, I was not impressed.

I will be doing a read over lunch but I am very capable of noticing glaring unaddressed errors and pushing.

"glaring unaddressed errors"?

[Battle Mage]

see i kinda feel like maybe Superbowl is being charitable to town here, by giving us a free scum-elim, cause he knows we're fked.

[Battle Mage]

UNVOTE:

ok ok man

[Battle Mage]

Disrupting not in the obnoxious way, in a scum tactic way.

This implies scum is in danger somewhere, no? If I'm scum coming in to disrupt?

No, Disrupting is a scum tactic used when the status quo isn’t in their favor. Lurker scum getting replaced does make sense for scum to come in and want to try and disrupt, so I see the scum agenda possibility in both Math and Johnny, I just think it’s way too bold for the 2 of you to be scum making this play.

It also makes me question NPOM. I haven’t fully scum read the slot, but you guys are like hard town reading them, and I definitely don’t see that, which is why I believe one of Johnny or Math to be scum.

They could be WK’ing NPOM, I suppose.

Wyvern and Non Imh. Hmm. If they were both scum, who’s the partner? Super Bowl?

i dont think that trio does that NK.

[Battle Mage]

Disrupting not in the obnoxious way, in a scum tactic way.

This implies scum is in danger somewhere, no? If I'm scum coming in to disrupt?

No, Disrupting is a scum tactic used when the status quo isn’t in their favor. Lurker scum getting replaced does make sense for scum to come in and want to try and disrupt, so I see the scum agenda possibility in both Math and Johnny, I just think it’s way too bold for the 2 of you to be scum making this play.

It also makes me question NPOM. I haven’t fully scum read the slot, but you guys are like hard town reading them, and I definitely don’t see that, which is why I believe one of Johnny or Math to be scum.

They could be WK’ing NPOM, I suppose.

Wyvern and Non Imh. Hmm. If they were both scum, who’s the partner? Super Bowl?

i dont think that trio does that NK.

Why? The day was quick. Titus, Superbowl, and I don’t look great for the Ben wagon, the lurkers aren’t dangerous.

I think that’s the exact type of Night Kill that team makes, especially if they don’t really discuss it too much.

if that was the team, I think superbowl just unilaterally picks the NK and kills one of the more experienced players.

[Battle Mage]

So...like, I’ve heard that said a few times, and it’s gonna incriminate me so hard, but I feel like I gotta bring it up.

Andres is one of the stronger players in this game. He can even probably take me down in a 1v1.

I just won a scum game against him where he was the biggest threat against me, and he’s played on other sites, like Mafia451. I played a game over him there, as scum, in a giant game, and i don’t remember him there much, but he’s not a lesser experienced player.

let me rephrase, I guess I mean "less well known". I definitely get the sense from his posts that he is good, but he isn't a 'big name' like you/Titus

[Battle Mage]

it feels like Mathblade is really flailing aimlessly here, randomly trying to throw shade

[Battle Mage]

The off the wagon kill implies scum want an on the wagon fade.

i'd have said the opposite is more likely.

[Battle Mage]

Scratch that, they don’t necessarily want an on the wagon fade, they expect an on the wagon fade. Whether they want it or not is up for debate.

yeah i can roll with that

[Battle Mage]

yeah i support massclaim