Mini Normal 2170: Stuff I’m Listening To [Game Over]
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Thestatusquo He/HimSheaHe/Him
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Thestatusquo He/HimSheaHe/Him
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Thestatusquo He/HimSheaHe/Him
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His whole push on outworlder while simultaneously shading me doesn't make any sense. He's not pushing like he's trying to get anyone yeeted at all, he's pushing like he's trying to just make a show of making an argument. It just doesn't feel authentic. There's a bunch of other stuff that I don't remember it without doing a reread but just like almost every thing he's done hasn't set right with me.tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner-
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Thestatusquo He/HimSheaHe/Him
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bulge why do you want to elim someone who will either be killed tonight or will be conftown or a liar tomorrow?
honest question. Because it seems completely stupid to me, no offense.
Like even if you were 99.9% certain that they're lying what is the downside? It still seems better to wait. It's free. What is the downside? I'm struggling to see it here and the weird insistence that the town should preemtively vote off someone that will be automatically sorted if they don't is absurd to me.tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner-
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Thestatusquo He/HimSheaHe/Him
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Here's what I think is going on:
I think this is borderline a scum slip. I think outworldER is likely scum. I think you are upset with his play and you are trying desperately to bus him because you want the town credit for that. I think the sum total of your play this game has been taking vague pot shots at people and then not actually pressuring them when they don't stick with the town. The original thrust of your post today was trying to force the wagon onto me instead of outworldER. Oh, sure, you were voting outworldER, but the majority of your analysis and posts were on me being scum. Now that its clear no one is biting we're back to just aggressively pushing outworldER despite the fact that it doesn't make any sense to kill an IC claim that will resolve itself tomorrow to do so.In post 2442, The Bulge wrote:re:outworld, I'm not talking about optimal play or what x would reasonably do in y situation. I'm clearly not implying he is playing optimally or within his partners' wishes.
As justification for that you have, what? A vague insinuation that they could be trying to get another role cop and the claim that somehow outworldER was the likely elim today anyway? That's just preposterous. Even if he was under heat there's no reason to believe he was more likely than anyone else to get elim'd today. (I know you're going to pick up on my vocab choices again, but this time you do so could you actually address the points I'm attaching them to instead of just listing "ridiculous preposterous absurd" in an attempt to discredit me without in any way addressing my arguments? kthx) Even if he WAS there was no reason to set this up by soft claiming yesterday. The play just makes no sense from a scum perspective and you know. Hell, you even said you know it in the post I quoted here. Now we're supposed to believe there's some nefarious plot to get another role cop that we don't even know is in the game? Fucking hell dude.
VOTE: The Bulgetout comprendre c'est tout pardonner-
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Thestatusquo He/HimSheaHe/Him
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I don't agree with this. I think the bulge is scummy regardless of your alignment, and I believe that pushing to get a player who would be confirmed the next day elim'd has a lot of scum motivation if you did end up being town.In post 2643, OutWorldER wrote:please ignore Panzer's scumbuddy.
Bulge wagon is also bad because the case (from my POV) seems to be based on associations with me and while I can definitely see why you all would think that's plausible it's unfortunately untrue and that can be confirmed tomorrow.
we elim Panzer today, I accept no substitutes.tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner-
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Thestatusquo He/HimSheaHe/Him
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Thestatusquo He/HimSheaHe/Him
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Thestatusquo He/HimSheaHe/Him
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So you admit that you're playing against optimal town strategy? Yet you still want to do it?
You did not know that town would react that way when you started your push, and continuing to ram through a elim against minor opposition as you were trying to do before I made my mind up about this (and still are to an extent) is definitely a play scum make to try to gain town cred. Hell, I basically did the exact same thing you're doing right now to CES in whiteflag. Different situations, but take an elim that may or may not happen today and push it until it topples over, oh they're scum? Cool. Who would have guessed!
You're now trying to claim that there would be no town cred for pushing a red elim and that's just patently false. That's literally just not how mafia works.tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner-
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Thestatusquo He/HimSheaHe/Him
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And don't think I haven't noticed how you've taken great pains to respond to the case where he flips red what that means for you and not what it would mean for you if he flips green. Can't think of any reason why you'd be more interested in arguing one case over the other no sireee.tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner-
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Thestatusquo He/HimSheaHe/Him
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How have you scumhunted at all until today? Does nuance mean basically not giving a crap until it comes time to push outworlder?
I mean if I get what I really want and outworld hangs today and bleeds red, yea I'd fucking hope for a little bit of credit as the only person who didn't buy his horseshit.
lolthat doesn't make any sense. how am I getting town credit from this? how is the way I've gone about pushing for this elim in any way conducive to gaining townie points?tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner-
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Thestatusquo He/HimSheaHe/Him
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It's not a shift in momentum, I believe you have been gunning for me literally the entire day and kept pushing on outworlder in the hopes that town would be stupid enough to off them today. This would benefit you if he flips red by getting the bus you were pushing heavily for or if he flips green so you don't have to waste a night kill on him.
I said that in the very post I voted you. Maybe you should reread it instead of posting about how you wouldn't get town points from a red flip while later saying that you would hope to get town points from a red flip and then saying that those posts somehow don't contradict each other?
Does nuance just mean not making sense?tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner-
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Thestatusquo He/HimSheaHe/Him
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I was talking about town credit if he flips red. The whole time. Why the fuck are we talking about for the push as if that's something that matters for the result of the attack? This is just more gibberish.I'm not doing myself any favours in looking super towny with my push. If I successfully push the wagon thru and he flips, then yea I'd think it would be fucking bizarre to immediately run me up the next day.
You're conceding my point that you would get town credit for bussing a scum player. While trying to argue somehow that my point that your motivation for doing so would be to gain town credit isn't valid? What? What do these words even mean? My point was and has been the whole time that bussing a scum player gains you town credit, which is just a fucking truism. Which you've admitted.
Like the quote is in response to my point that you could be trying to get town credit for bussing a scum buddy. So even if you're trying to claim that somehow you were talking about something different there, then that's admitting that you were just responding to my point that you would be trying to get town credit from bussing with non-responsive nonsense. Especially because, again, you've now admitted that point.
This is what caused me to LOL. Your points don't make a damn bit of sense.tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner-
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I gave plenty of reasoning.In post 2716, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:because niether of you seem very interested in convincing any of us to look into your silly slapfight.tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner-
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not only is that true, he slipped that he knew that already.In post 2805, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:isnt 7 and 8 the same thing
In post 2789, The Bulge wrote:I'm a loyal jailkeeper. targeted pooky n1 for reasons I can't recall because i crumbed panzer. outworld n2 to check the softclaim. kasu n3 should clear him because there was no reason to nk.tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner-
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Basically my thought process is kind of like this right now:
If bulge is town that would give me a town group of Blitzo, Kasumeat OutWorldER bulge me I think.
That would make the scum team gamma NM and Pooky.
That doesn't sound outrageous to me.
But I'm not convinced on bulge being scum, that would just be fucking wild to me considering his play the last 3 days.
So it hinges for me on what I think of the setup. If the setup is balanced with no additional town power I want to push bulge on the balance of his play. If I don't then I think I have a solve for this game in what I said above.tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner-
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Thestatusquo He/HimSheaHe/Him
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I don't like to admit to being wrong on the bulge but I think I'm wrong on the bulge. If he beat me with a gambit he beat me with a gambit, but the logic on the setup not making sense without the role seems sound to me.
That gives me a scum team of blitzo/gamma + NM + Pooky, with the first slot way more likely to be town blitzo scum gamma than the other way around imo.
Probably willing to elim in N_M or pooky today but could be convinced on gamma if that's where town ends up needing my vote, but I'd much rather lim in the first two which I think are locked scum slots.
The only thing that doesn't fit with that is I don't understand why gamma would be hard selling bulge as town if gamma was scum. That's the only piece of the puzzle that makes me want to lean blitzo as the last scum over gamma.tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner-
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Thestatusquo He/HimSheaHe/Him
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First of all, Shea please.In post 2939, Kasumeat wrote:Will post more tomorrow when I have time, but for now phone posting. Bulge and OW, who are your preferred lims today? I would prefer Shae or Gamma or NM. I just hate everything about how Shae has handled Bulge's claim.
Second of all, what do you hate about it?tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner-
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Thestatusquo He/HimSheaHe/Him
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I literally broke down exactly who I think is the scum team.In post 2952, Blitzo wrote:The game has slowed down. :/
Kasu should answer that question.
Alternatively shea should have a really strong mafia read right now - his unvote of bulge was extremely awkward and eeks caution that should have been there far beforehand, which is dissonant with his start of day.tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner-
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Thestatusquo He/HimSheaHe/Him
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I don't know why you are putting a stronger burden on me for telling you who the scum is than you are putting on yourself. I explained in great detail that process of elimination gives me a pool of Pooky NM you/gamma and my reasoning behind the you slot. I don't know why you think I need to have a detailed breakdown of pooky when I think he's from my point of view mechanically guaranteed to be scum. Like, I think he hasn't played particularly scummy, but he hasn't played particularly townie either. There's some weird tonal stuff that makes me look at him quite a bit, in particular the stuff today with him and gamma as well as him with bulge, but I don't think he's played a particularly scummy game, just that I have a pool of
blitzo the bulge nm gamma outworldER kasu pooky.
Kasu's town has read very town to me a couple of times. I could go look up particular posts but tbh I don't feel like it, in addition to that he's cleared mechanically if I accept bulge is town.
Bulge is cleared mechanically if I believe the claim, which I lean towards because of the setup.
outworldER is mechanically cleared by role.
That leaves me pooky blitzo nm and gamma.
I do not think theres a double scum hood, which means that one of blitzo/gamma is not scum. I have already broken down in detail my thoughts on that, which lean blitzo more likely to be town but gammas play the rest of the days being more scummy in my book but his play today not being what I would expect a scum player to be doing.
That's my thought process. If you disagree with it, please point out where you disagree, but you can't just say "shea is just saying random names."
And what's more the idea that I'm getting shit for dropping the bulge push is WILD to me. Scum shea would NEVER drop that push. That is an argument I could very easily win and win the game if I'm scum. See: white flag mafia with me getting CES elim'd despite multiple people arguing against it. What you're seeing is me realizing I'm missing something and reevaluating with new information that I didn't understand before. That's uhh...What I think you would hope to see town do, not scum who could very easily win that argument.
If I asked myself what correct play today would be I would say exactly what you're accusing me of not doing, which is attempting to win a very winnable argument that bulge's claim is a scum gambit and winning the game, which by the way is precisely what pooky is doing.tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner-
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Thestatusquo He/HimSheaHe/Him
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lol a full POE break down of why people are mechanically locked as scum from my perspective is "dropping a bunch of names and saying these are probably scum."Like...Dropping a bunch of names and saying "these are probably scum" is really not enough.
Holy hell dude. Are you serious?tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner-
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Thestatusquo He/HimSheaHe/Him
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Like I've now talked in depth about pooky multiple times and the best you can do is make a one sentence response saying "I don't think its unreasonable to ask you to scum read for me." while not engaging at all with that analysis? That really doesn't feel like you're arguing in good faith my friend.tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner-
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Thestatusquo He/HimSheaHe/Him
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I POSTED THEM IN THE POST ALMOST LITERALLY ABOVE thIS ONE .dwr.ergIn post 2963, Blitzo wrote:
Yes. Saying a bunch of people are POE scum isn't really useful to the rest of us. I've got NM saying I'm scum by PoE which isn't anything either unless you want to argue that he's town for thinking it.In post 2962, Thestatusquo wrote:
lol a full POE break down of why people are mechanically locked as scum from my perspective is "dropping a bunch of names and saying these are probably scum."Like...Dropping a bunch of names and saying "these are probably scum" is really not enough.
Holy hell dude. Are you serious?
I'll concede that I've forgotten that you've broken down the hood though? I'll have to double check in a moment to recall your thoughts on it.
erhgerdfgbdsf
vcbvxctout comprendre c'est tout pardonner-
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Thestatusquo He/HimSheaHe/Him
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Like I'm not trying to be a jerk but from my perspective this looks like this:
1) I explain where my elimination pool is. It has a scum solve that is based on my PoE. I don't have a lot more in depth analysis on players in that pool because its based on, again, PoE. But I do give some because theres minor things.
2) You ask me to give in depth read of pooky which I have never claimed to have and without disagreeing with any of my logic call my PoE solve "just throwing out names."
3) I respond by saying I don't think pooky has played town or scum but hes in my PoE for the logic I've given, there's been some small stuff but I think he's played a pretty neutral game. Also, here's some more in depth logic on why people are in my PoE.
4) You whine more about me not giving a breakdown read of pooky which I have never claimed to have and then ignore the breakdown I gave on the neighborhood literally 3 posts up and say you'll have to look more into what I said.
It's frustrating man. Reading the thread explains the thread. I'm not responsible for giving you a pooky read. If my read on pooky doesn't work for you that's on you not on me.tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner-
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