Mini Normal 2170: Stuff I’m Listening To [Game Over]

[Kasumeat]

@gamma Rude, I've been evicted before and it sucks
VOTE: gamma emerald
This is my first game of mafia in a long time

[Kasumeat]

Hello everyone, glad to be playing with all of you.
I will withhold my vote for now.

Why?

Seriously. Why would anyone be glad to be playing mafia?

VOTE: Blitzo

[Kasumeat]

Blitzo, what's your mafia experience?

[Kasumeat]

At work now, will post later tonight. At this point consider my vote on blitzo legit though.

[Kasumeat]

This seems like a bit of a stretch - what makes you think I don't enjoy the game and what bearing does that have on my alignment?

I agree with the others re: this post. This is a bizarre way to react to an RVS vote on you. The only time I have seen players react to an RVS vote by questioning the logic behind the random vote is from complete newbies. So if you've been playing for years, your reaction is very strange. I'm trying to wrap my head around why an experienced player would react that way and frankly it doesn't make much sense to me.

Blitzo, my read on you was not very strong at this point but it was alignment-indicative to me because I think either you're an alt intentionally trying a different playstyle and your posting is strange because it's unnatural for you (which is alignment-neutral) or you're scum and your posting is strange because most people post less naturally as scum. Why are you asking me about the justification for my RVS vote on you?

[Kasumeat]

I've mostly liked Murdercat except for this:

{Thestatusquo}
{Panzerjager, PookyTheMagicalBear, The Bulge}
{Not_Mafia, Noraa, Kasumeat, duppin, OutWorldER, UneducatedGuesser}
{Gamma Emerald}
{Blitzo}

pedit: Was just about to post this for content but ok

I agree with the SRs but the TRs on Panzer and Pooky are bizarre. Panzer has just two RVS votes and Pooky has made nothing but no-content white noise posts. Why do you TR them?

[Kasumeat]

Uneductaed Guesser, Duppin, Panzer, Noraa, Not Mafia, and Pooky haven't really made a post with content yet. I'd like to hear from them. Pooky bother's me the most here since he's been posting but not really saying anything.

[Kasumeat]

111 is his explanation.

Ah I missed that. Still don't like it.

btw let's solve the game together Kasu. Are you good at finding bad guys?

My heart and my best intentions tell me that I am, but the facts and the evidence tell me I am not.

Are you? Because I still don't see you contributing anything.

[Kasumeat]

I have mixed feelings on Outworld. I like what reads he's given so far, but his justification for them does indeed feel off. I would prefer Blitzo/a lurker/Pooky at this point.

[Kasumeat]

Ah I missed that. Still don't like it.

I'm here, ask me about it then

Why do you TR Panzer for a vote on you at that point? Looks like pure RVS to me.

I agreed with Pooky's logic about gamma.

What logic about Gamma are you even referring to? He doesn't present anything information, rather he just agrees with Shea.

[Kasumeat]

You know what, pressing pooky can wait. I'm pretty into yeeting Kasu I think.

VOTE: kasumeat

Why?

[Kasumeat]

I didn't like this vote because it felt like you were trying to ramp up a wagon while still pretending to be a RVS vote.

There was discussion happening around this statement so you were either ignoring that discussion or werent interested in having it. You had already made your joke opening vote for trying to claim that you werent voting for real is a stretch to me, especially since there was already information out there. It just rings kind of fishy to me. The whole interaction reads kind of fishy to me.

Post 40 and 103 is more indication that its not a random vote, but they're harping lines of questioning that I was already having without adding anything additional of substance for something that literally the player would have had to decide to do pre-game, which I pointed out at the time.

Post 154 is basically just you reiterating that what you are suspecting blitzo for is not really alignment indicative.

Then after that you start harping on not active people, which brings us to your post 176 which basically says "I'm going to ignore all the content that has happened so far in the game I want to yeet the guy who has done the weird thing that is NAI or some lurker."

It doesn't add up to me. It just doesn't look like you're earnestly trying to find scum.

My initial vote on Blitzo was very clearly a joke. I didn't like Blitzo's reaction to it nor did pretty much anyone else in the game. 40 is me seeing if Blitzo has some sort of reasonable explanation for it, which he didn't give, so 103 is me making it clear that what was a joke vote is now a real one. As for not participating in the discussion at the time, I work in restaurants which means I'm not on a computer and I only have a minute here or there to phonepost when I'm working in the afternoons/evenings EST.

In 154 I'm saying that I'm torn between whether Blitzo's weirdness is NAI or scummy. So with one possibility making me null on him and the other making me SR him, in what fucking universe does that mean I should still be null on him? Because that's exactly what you're saying.

"You were trying to ramp up a wagon" is bullshit. Ramp up the wagon with literally nobody on it? There is no way that you honestly believe that I'm scum trying to lynch a townie with my case being built upon "Blitzo likes playing mafia" as the basis for the wagon. You're taking what was very clearly an RVS vote and saying "your case here is terrible" and using that as justification for SRing me? There is no fucking way that an experienced townie makes a read like yours on me.

VOTE: Shea

[Kasumeat]

Why do you TR Panzer for a vote on you at that point? Looks like pure RVS to me.

I don't think it was a pure RVS vote as he had made a vote already. As I already established, I like to do certain things on day 1 to see how people interact with me about them. This is easier than trying to read how two different people interact because I know 1 side of the equation. Early in day 1 I find anything I can use to start content asap and that's exactly what panzer did (I think, of course he hasn't clarified). As I already said, I value finding other players who say or do things I was already thinking.

What logic about Gamma are you even referring to? He doesn't present anything information, rather he just agrees with Shea.

I am referring to 80 93 and 94 which I believe are independent of anything Shea said. As I said, it followed my own line of thought upon reading those posts.

It sure seems like RVS to me.

Regarding Pooky, I don't see how he's put forth any "logic". His posts that you're referencing are at best "uh-huh I agree".

[Kasumeat]

you think shea is scum for real or just posturing?

I was leaning town on him but his explanation for his SR on me is just so scummy. It hinges entirely on my RVS vote being an attempt to "ramp up a wagon" with 0 people on it and then saying that my SR on Blitzo makes no sense because I'm saying his post is NIA when I'm saying it was either NIA or scummy, so it amounts to a slight SR. I've never played with Shea before but his "read" on me just seems extremely fake which is scummy in my books

[Kasumeat]

lets break this down:

As for not participating in the discussion at the time, I work in restaurants which means I'm not on a computer and I only have a minute here or there to phonepost when I'm working in the afternoons/evenings EST.

My point had nothing to do with activity. It had to do with something being weird and you deciding that the best course of action wasn't to prod it like others were doing to try to decide if its alignment indicative but to vote it and then just sort of just leave it out there.

In 154 I'm saying that I'm torn between whether Blitzo's weirdness is NAI or scummy. So with one possibility making me null on him and the other making me SR him, in what fucking universe does that mean I should still be null on him? Because that's exactly what you're saying.

That's not what that post says at all though? You say "player is doing X thing which is only something I would expect from newbies so I don't understand why an experienced player would do it."

You do say that "his posting style is unnatural because hes scum" but that point just doesnt make any sense. Thats just not even remotely how being uncomfortable as scum manifests itself.

"You were trying to ramp up a wagon" is bullshit. Ramp up the wagon with literally nobody on it?

My point, which perhaps I did not explain well wasn't implying that you were trying to yeet a townie (as an aside please don't use the word you used here) but rather that you were reading momentum. There had already been two pointed questions directed to that player, so you jumping on and voting seems like its trying to put pressure on in a situation where it wasnt warrented and would be safe for you to be at the front of the wagon if a wagon did develop. I didn't like your timing and I didn't like your decision to just pile on a vote instead of just waiting for the player to answer the question 2 people had already asked.

Now my greatest reason for scum reading you is that reaction you just had to being voted is heinous.

I DID prod by asking Blitzo about his experience because him being inexperienced (maybe he made an account years ago and never played with it?) is the most sensible reason I can see for him to react the way he did. He explained that he has some experience so that is enough for me for a day D1 SR.

As for how people tending to play scum differently than I believe they do, sure, maybe I'm wrong about that. I'm sure you do know better than me. I have very little experience playing scum and never on this site. However, the best scumhunting I've done has been either straightforward stuff like catching slips, or more often, by catching experienced scum players trying to push the exact same "you're wrong about what makes people scummy/townie therefore you're scum" on me which is exactly what you're doing now.

[Kasumeat]

slight LHF vibes

What does this mean?

Gamma, what's your read on me and why?

[Kasumeat]

You respect shea so you want him to trust you this game? I'm confused why.

this is a really good question that I want an answer to. Generally the reason I try to get players to trust me is I'm trying to lie to them.

This last page and a half of gamma reads really earnest to me.

hello everyone please put these two posts next to each other and try to explain how they're possibly coming from town

[Kasumeat]

at the time of this post, I had as little content as panzer and pooky. sure i'd posted more between murdercat's list and this post, but I struggle to see this as a genuine critique given that fact

Yeah you're right, I read your posts at work and incorrectly remembered them as coming earlier than they did. I liked them so his TR on you didn't ping me.

I have mixed feelings on Outworld. I like what reads he's given so far, but his justification for them does indeed feel off. I would prefer Blitzo/a lurker/Pooky at this point.

I don't like this post, something about the pacing of it and how much time is spent talking about outworld rather than blitzo/pooky/whichever lurker kasu presumably had in mind. I know it's only a one-liner but eh[/quote]

If you're going to push me for making short posts just go ahead, I'd still rather do that than not post at all. I'm pretty busy between studies/work where I have little time to post so I have to be concise.

[Kasumeat]

this is awful. blatantly misrepping shea in the last paragraph, and the whole leadup going from meticulously defending himself immediately to "you're scum for being so wrong" makes no sense to me. I mean if he's scum, why so paranoid on the defense? and if he's so incredibly off-base, why the need to address it so seriously?

Because he's being strongly TRed by a lot of people in this game despite his push on me being garbage and I think people should be rethinking their reads on him

[Kasumeat]

It's been another crazy day, I am off work tomorrow and should have time to catch up

[Kasumeat]

Am heading out for the evening but my initial thoughts over a re-read of the past couple days:

Gamma is climbing my list of SRs. Not only has he disappeared now that there's no pressure no him and he hasn't responded to my question to him, but I don't like why some people, particularly Shea, saying he's townish early. Unless I'm mistaken, their justification was because Gamma made several posts that were "transparent" in this sense of he would respond to questions with his motivation with a straightforward "this is the [selfish] motivation for me saying this". So trying to convey that he's not hiding any intentions. Perhaps this is more likely to come from town than scum but I think that experienced scum actually tend to play like this pretty often, so I wouldn't give him townpoints for it. For an experienced player it's NAI as far as I'm concerned unless I know their meta better.

Speaking of which, Gamma's play this game has been totally different than I've seen him in the past, and I've only seen him as town. Much less active—which can come about from IRL circumstances for sure—but much less arrogant and aggressive. Granted, it's been literally years since then, so I don't want to lean too much on past meta, but it's definitely scumpoints against him.

VOTE: MURDERCAT
I think MCat thought Noraa would be an easy target and that’s why they attacked Noraa so quickly

This vote pings me too. Especially on day one, I don't think that most scum players are that eager to dogpile easy targets—the easy targets will get lynched one way or another. This just doesn't seem like a legit explanation for a vote to me. Gamma, can you elaborate on this vote and your current feelings of MC? Could you also tell me your current thoughts on Shea, myself (again), and Outworld?

Gotta run now, should have time to really catch up late tonight.

[Kasumeat]

[quote="In post 487Gamma, can you elaborate on this vote and your current feelings of MC? Could you also tell me your current thoughts on Shea, myself (again), and Outworld?[/quote]

You did explain yourself re: myself. How about Shea and Outworld?

[Kasumeat]

Ugh my power just cut out so I'm phone posting for the time being. I like noraa. I agree with most of her reads and her tone is whimsical and steam of consciousnessy. It's fakeable but strikes me as legit, especially if she's new. She's actually engaging with Mc and even if I'm starting to disagree with her on the sr there it seems like she's actually trying to solve.

Noraa, what do you think of gamma right now?

[Kasumeat]

Power is back

Anyway, that's all I got. Yeet murdercat probably.

Why? I have mixed feelings on MC. I'd be happy to share but I'd like to hear your reasoning first.

[Kasumeat]

Shea, I agree with your 472 but I'm wondering why Bulge's line of questions "don't make sense" to you but they don't seem scummy to you. Why not?

[Kasumeat]

On the other hand, I do agree with Shea about getting pinged by Pooky's 180:

I have been trying a more logical solve based approach to the game rather than a pressuring attack based approach because I find people are easier to read when they do not feel attacked.

because he's ignoring me and I'm hoping a vote will get him to engage with me

But then he drops it, just like with Bulge. Shea is asking questions and making obversations that I like but I'm not liking that he seems to just drop them when there is something there that looks worth following up on.

Pooky, if your plan is to sit back and not pressure anyone, why are you so quick to abandon it?

[Kasumeat]

Shea, I agree with your 472 but I'm wondering why Bulge's line of questions "don't make sense" to you but they don't seem scummy to you. Why not?

I dont think I said anything about what they say about bulges alignment.

I mean, the fact that there is an implication that his questions are scummy but you don't mention that is indeed what I'm pointing out here. How DO you feel about his questions?

I have been feeling more uneasy about the bulge but mostly its related to what I see as pretty persistent efforts to try to buddy up to me.

I will say I also find this post by you while you're voting me and saying things like two posts of mine can't possibly come from town to be pretty odd.

If you're so sure I'm scum why do you care about my opinion?

I really like your questions and observations lately. I don't like that you don't seem interested in following up and I'm wondering why you haven't. I'm starting to reevaluate my read on you, though I do worry that I'm giving you too much credit because I'm happy that you've eased up on me. Why doesn't Pooky's sudden 180 seem to bother you too much?

[Kasumeat]

How DO you feel about his questions?

As in, do you find them townie scummy or neutral?

[Kasumeat]

because when 1 plan doesn't work I switch to the other plan.

This is scummy as hell. Your "plan" of being passive can't work unless you give it time to do so.

Why does this game feel like it has half a dozen scum.

[Kasumeat]

FWIW I feel like theres a pretty compelling reason to vote almost anyone in the game right now, and many of them also have compelling reasons to think they're town.

I could not agree more, though I think I would say this about nearly every game of mafia I've ever played.

Anyways it's 3 AM, will continue this tomorrow.

[Kasumeat]

Power is back

Anyway, that's all I got. Yeet murdercat probably.

Why? I have mixed feelings on MC. I'd be happy to share but I'd like to hear your reasoning first.

[Kasumeat]

also I made an analysis after two games with Pooky (dumb yes but w/e) that he tends to be more serious as scum than as town, and he's never attempted to contradict me on that. I will however say maybe I oversimplified it when first forming that impression. He's silly as both alignments, but when he's town it seems like it's downright inscrutable and rather distracting, but as scum he does it in a way that feels less invasive. So if you struggle with reading Pooky, there's a bit of a road map on him.

So . . . what do you think of him?

[Kasumeat]

Hi

[Kasumeat]

People are actually here so let's try to advance the game state. Who is mostly likely to be scum if people who are generally town read? Which lurkers if any are scum?

Who is generallyTRed, Shea and Bulge? I feel better and better about Shea. Speaking of which.

UNVOTE:

Several other lynches I'd prefer. I like Bulge less than on his intro mostly for reasons that Shea has mentioned. He's null-scum for me.

As for the lurkers, who knows? I find NM impossible to read. I've played with him once before when he replaced in and he made three posts over two days and then was replaced out or something, as town. Still a complete null on him. I don't have much of a read yet on UG but I like what he's posted so far. Leaning slightly town. Panzer is low-content and what's there is a little scummy. Posts like this are just completely useless and non-committal and seem like scum just hedging hard. Though the arrogance that he shows is fairly towny.

[Kasumeat]

VOTE: Gamma

also I made an analysis after two games with Pooky (dumb yes but w/e) that he tends to be more serious as scum than as town, and he's never attempted to contradict me on that. I will however say maybe I oversimplified it when first forming that impression. He's silly as both alignments, but when he's town it seems like it's downright inscrutable and rather distracting, but as scum he does it in a way that feels less invasive. So if you struggle with reading Pooky, there's a bit of a road map on him.

This post is a lot of words that say absolutely nothing. This doesn't really help solve Pooky at all, nor does he even express an opinion on what this makes Pooky. There has been a passivity to his play this game which is just so totally unlike the last time I played with Gamma where we ended up in a big town v town clownfiesta. And no I'm not just talking about the lack of content (meaning not posting a lot) I was mentioning earlier, but rather there isn't any real digging, it's almost all just distanced observations.

[Kasumeat]

This post is a lot of words that say absolutely nothing. This doesn't really help solve Pooky at all, nor does he even express an opinion on what this makes Pooky. There has been a passivity to his play this game which is just so totally unlike the last time I played with Gamma where we ended up in a big town v town clownfiesta. And no I'm not just talking about the lack of content (meaning not posting a lot) I was mentioning earlier, but rather there isn't any real digging, it's almost all just distanced observations.

This is a direct reply to my post about Pooky, I don't see anything wrong with it

What does it say?

[Kasumeat]

I just want to mention that while I was digging through my games to find the game I played against NM I found the game where one of the scum posted a readlist with the moderator on it

[Kasumeat]

My post? It talked about how I didn't get very much out of Pooky meta reading

No, Gamma's.

[Kasumeat]

Nice, if I roll scum I'm gonna do that as a lil "townslip", heh he heh. Shh.

[Kasumeat]

My post? It talked about how I didn't get very much out of Pooky meta reading

No, Gamma's.

I'm not sure I understand the question, I don't think gammas post was designed to solve Pooky, I think it was to communicate with me about my read

I am having a hard time understanding how those words are an a legitimate attempt to communicate anything useful. That said, I don't mean to give the impression that I think it's the scummiest post ever. Just another one of the many posts he's making that fit his general pattern of just chiming in with not-very-insightful observations and not attempting to do any scumhunting.

[Kasumeat]

what townslip?

Posting a readlist with a mod in it. I was making a "joke", you see, referencing the juxtaposition of the same error being committed by both scum and town. And it's "funny", you see, because the implication of my original reference is such an error is a scumslip whereas your anecdote references the same error being made by town. Thus my immediate declaration intent to make such a list in order for it to be viewed as a townslip is altogether entirely absurd and therefore hilarious.

[Kasumeat]

fuck it im ready to hunt scum with you kasu

lets do this shit

I'm glad you're ready because I haven't seen any of it out of you so far

[Kasumeat]

ok r u going to hunt now?

No, that's the town's job

[Kasumeat]

aren't you part of the town?

Hah, can't slip anything past you!

[Kasumeat]

Panzerjager
Panzer doesn’t have a lot of content to look through in this game, but I’m going to try my best. At the risk of sounding OMGUSy, I don’t like Panzer’s vote on me. There’s no real reason given other than e.g. “read lists are scummy” (355). Yes I realized that I was ok with the vote when it first happened, but it feels now as if the vote is being justified after the fact in a possible miselim attempt. Panzer has been very vague in the description about outworld/duppin/me and it reads to me like he is keeping his options open about where to move to in the future.

In the interest of actually creating some content, do either of you think this has any merit?

Yes, I agree with everything here. Panzer has been simultaneously hedgy in his "reads" nor does he offer any explanation for them. I don't put as much weight as you seem to in the vote itself though. His vote on you looks RVS to me. I opened this game by turning an RVS vote into a legit one too. That said, I was clear about it, and I don't like that Panzer never made it clear.

[Kasumeat]

I don't think I saw trolling when I reviewed your meta actually >.>

are you bad here?

Maybe I just never encountered anyone so easy to dunk on before

[Kasumeat]

@Pooky This actually does ping me a bit, it was an obvious joke. Unless you saying you wanted to scum hunt with him wasn't actually because of a town read. The first Kasu game I clicked on had kasu self vote in rvs so I don't think that series of posts was that out of the norm

It seems a lot like an attempt to pocket me, actually.

[Kasumeat]

Anyways it's past two. Until tomorrow, friends.

[Kasumeat]

super don't like the pooky votes

Why? He was one of your SR's early.

And you're continuing to refuse to explain your SR on MC.

[Kasumeat]

super don't like the pooky votes

glad im not the only one

Why?

[Kasumeat]

Pooky, other than Blitzo, who do you want to yeet and why? I don't see you expressing a single SR other than Blitzo.

[Kasumeat]

VOTE: Pooky

Haven't really liked anything from you all game. My top TRs don't like you and a lot of my SRs do.

[Kasumeat]

VOTE: Pooky

Haven't really liked anything from you all game. My top TRs don't like you and a lot of my SRs do.

I'm hoping a vote will get him to engage with me

ok buddy good talk

[Kasumeat]

super don't like the pooky votes

Why? He was one of your SR's early.

And you're continuing to refuse to explain your SR on MC.

Uh...pooky was never an SR of mine. So.........................

Why should I explain anything to someone who can't read?

Going into page 8, I dislike murdercat, outworld, and pooky in that order. I'll try to read more b4 worlds.

[Kasumeat]

If he actually wanted an answer to his question he would've given me a chance to answer it instead of voting me 7 minutes later.

because he's ignoring me and I'm hoping a vote will get him to engage with me

[Kasumeat]

Wow this went crazy in the past day, will catch up as best I can.

[Kasumeat]

VOTE: Pooky

Haven't really liked anything from you all game. My top TRs don't like you and a lot of my SRs do.

i dont believe you ever commented on this, but what did you make of pooky's initial meta read on you?

I suppose it was accurate for the early stage of the game, though certainly as the game has developed I haven't been the same as in the past. I haven't been near the hammer which was always my trigger in the past, and I'm also much more experienced/jaded than I used to be.

[Kasumeat]

Sorry for the double post on this but I wanted to add that I don't think it would even be reasonable for noraa to miss the "fypov" because literally the last line says "as you would see it" as well.

Like claiming that someone is scum slipping when the post you're claiming is a scum slip preempts that interp in 2 different ways is some real next level misrepresentation.

Really don't like this post from Shea. Noraa's post seems way more likely to me to be a legit excited reaction coming from a excited townie who thinks she's caught a scumslip than scum who are trying to run a bad "scumslip" push that doesn't make sense if you actually read the post. I've definitely caught "scumslips" as town before and excitedly posted them only to soon realise I'm just an idiot who didn't read properly. Noraa's post is either coming from a townie, a really, really dumb scum, or a really, really good one who's next-leveling us. I'm not sure I buy that Shea's reaction is real here, as I don't think an experienced player legitimately believes Noraa is scummy for this.

[Kasumeat]

At the risk of maybe tunneling here I don't understand why a town player would ever make this offer.

It is mostly tongue in cheek

Mostly? Can you elaborate?

[Kasumeat]

I would prefer Pooky but I'm down for a Panzer yeet. Pooky/Panzer scum makes a lot of sense.

[Kasumeat]

Hey all, just lost my job today so as of tomorrow I should have more time to play, though TBH I'm not feeling super motivated at the moment.

[Kasumeat]

oh sorry i wasn't so much referring to the read itself, but more so if this has any impact on your read on pooky?

So you're asking whether the fact that he did a meta affects my read? It's the sort of thing that I see from town more often than scum but I see it from both plenty. So a few townpoints, but not many.

[Kasumeat]

Noraa wagon has a weird resistance to it, but I also am not sure she is scum? I really think it is this mastina-anime protag playstyle that just pisses me off more than gives me a read either way.

Are you saying that you think people are SRing Noraa but not voting her, or are you saying that people should be SRing her but they're not?

[Kasumeat]

VOTE: noraa

I actually dislike that entrance enough to do this considering there is no one else on Blitzo atm anyway and there is at least some content there.

Sorry for immediately invalidating the VC

Blitzo's post 34 is overly defensive to what I perceive as a joke from Kazu(can I call you that?) Overall an interesting slot but they are in my null for the time being.

Murder sheeps Shea's(may I call u that?) opinions a shit ton. Zero evidence to back up reads ... in general. Also buddies shea a bit too. I'm not liking the look of it rn so I SR Murder.

Post 64 - I really like the way OutWorldER thinks. Very logic based and overall beneficial to town if town but very scary if scum. He can go into early town book for now tho. I don't agree completely with his views bc I think we don't have enough to be saying Blitzo is hard to read but the way of thinking is towny imo.

Pooky is hard to read. idk. null here as well as I understand this is their normal play style.
I still dk what BoP is soooo can I get some SE help around here in unfamiliar territory?

Gamma got into a bit of hot water but meh seems like typical gamma play here. I don't see anything funky so gammas a null for now.

Bulge putting pressure on Murder I approve of. Also Bulge gets +Noraa biased points bc they modded the first game that I won on site. Into my town book u go.

Post 121 - no pooky I won't be claiming 3p this game lmao.

Kazu's entrance are +++townpoints. reads very town imo.

Not mafia and Pooky are in the same "Noraa isn't capable of reading" category

Duppins posts are giving me such strong town pings, I'm worried he's scum. in the slight scum reads he goes.

Guesser's entrance could be townie in pointing out the absence of spam from me or scum setting me up to be limbait. Imma go with the first option for now.

Shea is .... meh null.

I don't see this read list coming from scum. It's honestly so empty it makes no sense in some places, e.g. duppin. This isn't a tstbs argument, I am saying that scum here should be pushing someone and probably at least town leaning you. But ok you want evidence of town, not not scum so I will keep reading

???

[Kasumeat]

Neither.

I'm saying two things:

Having trouble piling votes on someone for an entire phase is a weird thing to happen on town.

I can't fully pursue that line of thought because , when I wrote it, I wasn't personally there yet myself as she was like 5th on my list. She is higher now due to some of her recent posts.

I don't think that's always the case but regardless: are you not saying that she's scummy so we should be SRing her?

[Kasumeat]

Just running some errands but will be able to catch up in about an hour.

[Kasumeat]

I already answered no to that dumb question. It's not a matter of if you should or shouldn't.

So if she's not scummy, why is resistance to a wagon on her weird?

What is your read on nora, katsu?

I think she's town. As I explained in 1043 her very short-lived push on Gamma which came about from misreading a post seems like a legit excited reaction at catching a scumslip. I've done the same several times and have seen that sort of thing faked by scum very rarely. Her ongoing interaction with MC also looks genuine to me.

[Kasumeat]

???

I reread and came to that conclusion. Also my initial vote on Noraa was more of a scumlean and pressure vote

Can you explain the thought process here? What exactly did you find scummy about her at the time and why are you now saying that you were wrong to think that at the time?

[Kasumeat]

Noraa's reads made no sense to me but upon reread I don't see anything that seems specifically scum motivated and I do see things that don't make sense as scum from my POV

Knowing the motivation behind a D1 readlist is pretty damn scummy. You've convinced me.

I will hammer/vote MC at this point. Not gonna vote just yet so NM doesn't turbo him.

[Kasumeat]

Knowing the motivation behind a D1 readlist is pretty damn scummy.

I'm confused about what you mean by this

You're saying that you don't see the motivation behind Noraa's readlist as scummy.

[Kasumeat]

To be clear, I was referring to her whole iso with the second half of my statement

In this post I'm asking specifically why you went from explicitly SRing Noraa for her "entrance" (your word) which at that point was pretty much just a readlist to explicitly saying that her readlist can't possibly come from scum.

[Kasumeat]

Spoiler: Pooky stuff

Ok so just from a game state perspective I think it is probably better to flip town MC than town Pooky. Obviously it’s better to flip scum Pooky than town MC, but that is why I haven’t hard pushed Pooky, I’m not confident enough right now to do that. So this actually isn’t really an attempt to get anyone to vote there unless you independently value anything in here. I’ve also approached this from the perspective that Pooky is scum, so this is all biased in that direction. That is not an accurate assessment of my read on Pooky, I think he somewhere between probably to maybe scum.

Pooky respond to this if you want but I’m not going to fight with you again, it is fun but exhausting. I accept I’m the lim today. This is more for when I flip than anything else.

The early posts are all just poking around and aren’t really that interesting. I do want to point out that if Pooky ever flips scum I think that leads to town points for Blitzo due to 223. That doesn’t read like distancing to me.

399 sticks out to me still compared to how defensive Pooky gets when I start to pressure him, but I’ll come back to that.

Through 448 I still feel like Pooky has mostly just tried to poke at people. I read my own iso and to me it feels like I am trying to work with people but I just don’t get that sense from Pooky. Even the people he is defending I don’t think he actually is claiming their town or trying to work with them in the same way. Like in 214 Pooky claims that Kasu is probably town and Shea’s progressions are good. Other than basically OOG talk in 267 and 273 there is no interaction with either of them until 333 where he asks Kasu a question. In 456 Shea prompts Pooky to work with him and Pooky, to his credit, obliges.

514 is interesting and has been mentioned already. Compared to what Pooky was saying in 399 it is a weird way to leave the RVS vote. It feels like he was caught for not voting and waited a bit before fixing it. He already had the Blitzo read way back in 224 so why not just vote in 399 instead of making a big deal of it? Just feels overly defensive whereas town I would have just said “ok that’s true I’ll vote now.” Pooky defends his actions in 538 for those interested.

601 <3 I still love you Pooky even after all we’ve been through

619 Pooky does act against my point above here. I do think that UG makes a great point in 653 and I don’t feel as if 659 is a real defense for it.

Pooky seems really defensive in 734. The phrase “so when I flip town…” really irks me because to me it assumes that OutWorld is scum. I think I’m repeating myself now though.

757 also feels kind of aggressive to me? Like why is Pooky getting so defensive saying that OutWorld has no case blah blah blah. It just feels really dismissive and not how I would respond as town to someone who from my perspective might also be town.

810 is me trying to engage with Pooky and him dodging the question with a joke, but whatever that might be NAI.

I think I make a good point in 816 and I don’t think that 818 is a good defense.

I still think that 870 is a blatant misrep of everything that I had been saying, but other people agreed so I guess I just didn’t express myself well.

I feel like 886 is a good example of how fast Pooky shifted on me, which feels unnatural. Like, I am scum leaning Pooky and trying to talk to him, he apparently hadn’t been scum reading me before this and in 886 it reads like he is convinced I’m scum? I really don’t think it’s fair to say I twisted anything and I never once tried to get anyone to vote him up to this point.

The beginning of 909 is just ridiculous and Gamma calls it out in 910. It feels like every possible attack he can make he is whereas I was genuinely trying to work with him still. Pooky will take issue with this statement because I do say I’m not questioning him and he thinks I’m not interacting with him, but from my POV I wanted him to calm down so I could actually interact productively. And saying I’m evasive in 919 is just a falsehood, I respond to all of his posts.

Posts like 954 I also feel like are attacks based on my nothing, if you know my meta you know that’s not how I play.

The comment on my word choice in 963 is ridiculous.

1221 never went anywhere as Pooky continues to say I look bad, but maybe he didn’t reread.

1365 is just silly.

If 1369 were true I’d have tried to push Noraa with Shea. I feel like this is obvious and Pooky can’t in good faith believe that I would stick up for Noraa the way I have if she was town and I was scum and there was pressure on me.

Ok make of that what you will, I know we are still eliming me today.

On the other hand this is a very good case on Pooky. I can see scum!MC bussing Pooky here, but honestly I still prefer to yeet Pooky. Or Panzer for that matter. MC has done a few things I like whereas Pooky seems only be interested in casing people voting him.

One weird thing that I can't recall seeing before is that MC is taking credit for being the author of my post on Pooky in 810. Not sure if this is something scum would do intentionally given that it's literally never going to stand up to scrutiny, but on the other hand, maybe he's desperate. Could always be an honest mistake though.

[Kasumeat]

I'm back now for about half an hour then I'm gone until later in the evening. We are E-1 now, correct? I'll hammer late tonight if need be.

After pooky got a little pressure and started solving, I agreed with almost everything they said. Since I am town and he thinks very similarly, I would assume he is coming from a town mindset as well. Plenty of his posts sound really really towny and I can quote a few for you if you want them.

So u SR me for encouraging a lim on me but don't SR murder for doing the same? hmmm something to look back at tmrw definitely

I really don't see Pooky as town so please do.

PEdit: That's the hammer, correct?

[Kasumeat]

Yeah that case looks pretty good tbh

MC's case on Pooky? Do you still like the case if MC is scum or do you already know his alignment?

[Kasumeat]

Yeah that case looks pretty good tbh

Heading out now but just gonna requote this scumslip in case I eat it Tonight

[Kasumeat]

Yeah that case looks pretty good tbh

This is not a post made by somebody who is unsure of MC's alignment. Please don't ignore this scumslip thanks.

VOTE: Gamma

[Kasumeat]

Yeah that case looks pretty good tbh

This is not a post made by somebody who is unsure of MC's alignment. Please don't ignore this scumslip thanks.

VOTE: Gamma

uh....

I have literally never seen somebody make a post like Gamma's during twilight. Have you ever as town reacted to a case being made by person who has just been voted with "wow this is a very good case"? I sure haven't. I liked MC's case too, but because I didn't know how he was going to flip, I knew that the result of his flip was going to really change how I thought about it. But Gamma wasn't thinking about that because he's scum and knew MC's alignment already. "Wow I love that case" is simply not a natural reaction that a townie has when there's the uncertainty of a flip about to happen.

[Kasumeat]

I disagree

Please explain.

[Kasumeat]

@Outworld What's your mafia experience?

[Kasumeat]

I have seen the exact phenomenon that kasu is talking about many times before.

From town or from scum?

[Kasumeat]

um what? Even if MC was scum that doesn't take away from the fact it was a well constructed case. Obviously I'd take something posted by scum with a grain of salt but it could have been last minute distancing.

I said that I like the case too. The issue is that your head was in the wrong place.

[Kasumeat]

I agree they've been good but they dont feel like guesser's town game.

Why? How are they good but not townie for him?

[Kasumeat]

UG's re-entrance is excellent, I agree with nearly everything.

Guesser having too many SRs might actually be scum indicative hmmm

I can't speak for everyone but I tend to SR half the game for the first couple of Game Days. Having lots of SRs in a vacuum isn't AA as long as the reasoning is sound. This has been a pretty active game and I think that nearly everyone would agree that there are few-if-any nearly-universally townread players.

I've been TRing Noraa and attributing her, ahem, questionable assertions as naivety/inexperience. But she's piling poop on top of poop on top of poop and it's really starting to stink. I'm worried I've been giving her too much credit for what I thought was a very townie post and not looking at her critically. Need to give her a re-read, as painful as that will be.

Pooky's re-entrance is obviously not good either, but apparently he's delivering the goods tonight so we'll see.

[Kasumeat]

Things have been unexpectedly busy today and I'm headed out of town early tomorrow and returning Sunday. Currently caught up to page 75, will catch up more on Sunday night.

[Kasumeat]

Catching up a bit now on my phone.

It's also sort of weird because it a) assumes I'm town and b) assumes that my reads are good and threatening to the scum team, or even c) that scum never play around information roles.

The c is just a whatever point but a and b are actually mighty suspicious to me.

These are very good points.

[Kasumeat]

btw my thoughts on the dupin kill is scum wanted duppin silenced before he could do major damage

What is the major damage he was threatening to do?

[Kasumeat]

that actually is an interesting point now that I think of it. If scum wanted to set me up, they would kill someone that is sussing me hard then bring it up once the day starts as kinda sus and hope others expand. Shea brought it up first and continues to do it. That combined with the fact that the scums didn't kill him to set me up instead makes me think Shea is one of the scums that said in the pt "hey guys lets set Noraa up by killing someone pushing her hard. Who pushes the most there besides myself? Duppin."

This is such an outrageously self-centred view on the game. Town or scum, you were without question one of if not the most likely yeet candidate going into d2. Trying to frame the NK as a setup for a mislim on you is just absurd.

I'm really starting to think that Noraa's scuminess isn't just naivete.

[Kasumeat]

Finally caught up and good lord, this game.

[Kasumeat]

Noraa, who are your top TRs now and why?

Gamma, what do you think of Pooky right now? If Noraa claims and you do/don't like it how does that change?

[Kasumeat]

Noraa and Gamma are both near the top of my SRs right now and I'm trying to figure out what that means. I still really hate Gamma's twilight post, and I really hate a million Noraa posts (though I do like a few, including her 2062 which has a tone that can be faked by scum but is more common with more experienced ones). They're both clearly in the limpool for today so I think scum!Gamma and scum!Noraa are more likely than not to bus each other here, but I'm not convinced that two scum would end up in this spot. I can't ever recall seeing a 1v1 with two scum in it this early and both of their wagons, Gamma's in particular, seem to have formed more easily than I typically see for wagons on scum this early. Noraa's has indeed not been wagoned as easily as one would expect given how many people seem to lean scum for her, which I don't like. And now the claims really do change the math there.

What I don't like about forcing a claim from Noraa here is that I'm not sure how much it changes the minds of anyone who is voting her right now.

Finally caught up and good lord, this game.

You've caught up and the most relevant thing you can think to do is make a vague contentless complaint?

I am totally with the others that this is a difficult game to follow and I don't have a ton of mental energy right now and I have to be up early tomorrow. I want Gamma and Noraa to respond to my questions while I reevaluate.

[Kasumeat]

I don't fucking TR anyone. Literally everyone's scummy asf and I don't even know who the hell is town. The only ones that aren't scummy literally never talk and thats literally prolly the only reason why I don't SR them-bc they aren't ever here anyways.

My best bet at TRs is all the softs that recently happened. I believe one is a lie and I think gamma's is the lie.
My TRs solely based on softs would be blitz and outworld.

I agree that a lot of people are scummy this game but this doesn't make any sense. If you are town and honestly believe that there are nearly a dozen scummy players here, well, a few of those have to be less scummy than the others. But you're saying that before the claims you didn't have a single town read or even lead. You're not trying to make sense of this game, you're just trying to portray nearly everyone as scummy.

It doesn't really matter tho cuz tonight I'll likely be able to find one scum solidly and that's enough to progress game state even if we mislim today. I'm saying this cuz I have confidence scum won't kill me even if I claim I can find one tonight. They only know I am town. Besides that, there is no way they can tell if I can truly find one of them tonight. If they have a RBer, I might be a bit screwed but hopefully they don't cuz if they don't, I'll have a confscum or very very close to confscum person by tmrw.

Lol really? So whatever you role is, you targeted Shea last night, your result was something that did not confirm Shea is scum, then you voted him, and now you're saying that you'll have a "confscum or very very close to confscum person by tmrw"? How can you have a role that is so weak as an investigative that you get a negative result on a player, proceed to vote them regardless, and yet be certain that it will be extremely helpful if we let you live one more night?

VOTE: Noraa

[Kasumeat]

Blitzo, beyond being unclear, is there anything about Gamma's messages to you that you'd say is AI?

[Kasumeat]

Noraa should full claim now. Putting her at L-1 is putting her in hammer range for NM.

Yes to be clear my vote puts her at L-2 with NM not currently voting her

[Kasumeat]

Phone posting on the road but lol people jumping off of Noraa's wagon because of that claim. She literally goes from claiming that she will have "very close to confscum" if she lives one night to claiming a role that is one of the weakest investigative roles in the role game which is literally incapable of discerning alignment without a fair bit of very particular information.

She is just straight up lying, claiming that she has a useful role in one breath and then claiming it's useless in another.

Those jumping off her wagon are even scummier though. It's theoretically possible that she's just a village idiot and the scum don't want to push a mislim too hard, but it's literally not possible for anyone to actually believe that claim.

[Kasumeat]

Phone posting on the road but lol people jumping off of Noraa's wagon because of that claim. She literally goes from claiming that she will have "very close to confscum" if she lives one night to claiming a role that is one of the weakest investigative roles in the role game which is literally incapable of discerning alignment without a fair bit of very particular information.

She is just straight up lying, claiming that she has a useful role in one breath and then claiming it's useless in another.

Those jumping off her wagon are even scummier though. It's theoretically possible that she's just a village idiot and the scum don't want to push a mislim too hard, but it's literally not possible for anyone to actually believe that claim.

I don't have time now to look but I'd be happy to lim any of them as well as noraa obv

[Kasumeat]

Except it makes perfect sense when you consider her role was practically worthless and she was trying to NK bait. Scum would have tried to scare town away from voting out a potentially useful PR, but she claimed something super-meager. Plus the fact she claims to have been trying to soft tracker makes sense as a town!Noraa move and also lines up with how she was claiming to be able to get confscum despite not getting a result on Shea that meant much (the idea would have been that she was trying to indicate a no action result on Shea, which does lean a person town without making them really unwanted as a vote).[/quote]

Why do you seem to be completely certain that her claim is real? And the fact that she's claiming a weak role so her claim must be real is classic WIFOM. If she had been consistent in it I could consider it more seriously, but the fact that she's gone from softing tracker to a claim that's completely contradictory to what she was saying earlier does not a believable claim make.

Literally the only thing that actually makes me want to believe noraa here is how scummy Gamma's defence of her is. Like that twilight post gamma made that I hated, his tone here is just so certain of such a dubious claim. I'm actually starting to feel more confident of Gamma scum here than Noraa because I can see scum!gamma trying to get town cred for a town!noraa flip or trying to protect scum!noraa. And I'm starting to see fewer and fewer ways that Gamma can possibly be town here.

VOTE: gamma

I will still vote Noraa at deadline but I feel better about this.

[Kasumeat]

Whoops, that was a gamma quote from 2283

[Kasumeat]

Someone please explain to me like I'm real dumb why we should lim OW today instead of tomorrow

[Kasumeat]

Someone please explain to me like I'm real dumb why we should lim OW today instead of tomorrow

If he's town, we lose if we miss elsewhere.
Otherwise I guess there's not much of a difference? Getting a red flip is

always

good because it gives us so much more to work with outside of just saving him on the off chance we hit red elsewhere.
The more I think about it the more likely he's just scum and eliminating him is fine.

Do you have a specific reason to not want to eliminate him?

9 players are alive. If we mislim today, that's 7 for tomorrow. If there's 3 scum, it's LYLO. Am I missing something? Obviously this isn't a good spot, but not game over.

My reason is simply that if we keep him alive one more day, we don't lose even if we mislim and are much better positioned Tomorrow.

[Kasumeat]

I also don't really like the case on OW. The NK posts are townish to me. OW talked about the NK from a very superficial, naive seeming perspective. He's inexperienced and previous to whatever he is in this game has never played scum before from what I gathered when I asked him about his experience, I think that sort of NK analysis is more likely to come from newbtown than newbscum. Newbtown has never really given much thought to the choices that go into a NK and thus are more likely to think they're more straightforward and to think that other players will also believe that they're very straightforward. Newbscum will have actually thought about it more deeply and realise it's a little more complex and thus also realise that other players will know this too. Also, newbscum is more likely to get coached to either avoid talking about the NK or to do so in a less newbish way.

[Kasumeat]

Alright I understand it now.
You might be right.
And this also kind of ruins the whole shea!scum idea that we had going unless outworld is just mafia.

Kasu who are your three right now?

Gamma
Pooky
one of NM, Panzer, and Bulge

In order of confidence. Need to go to bed now but will elaborate and take a better look at the bottom three tomorrow.

[Kasumeat]

While we're talking about meta, here's a recent town game of mine for you guys to check out: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84467
I think you'll find that I've been extremely consistent with it this game.

Gamma, I don't see any difference whatsoever in those two games that you posted. What is more maleficent about the first?

On the other hand, town NM in 84282, the one that NM himself is linking here, is way more active than I've ever seen from him.

[Kasumeat]

Gamma now that you've shared those games, what are you thoughts on NM? And Panzer and Pooky.

[Kasumeat]

Gamma
Pooky
one of NM, Panzer, and Bulge

In order of confidence. Need to go to bed now but will elaborate and take a better look at the bottom three tomorrow.

And just to follow up on this, my Gamma case I made pretty clear already and nothing about past Night and Day makes me like him any more.
VOTE: Gamma

Pooky hasn't done much lately that I've actively found scummy but on the other hand he seems content just to sit back and not contribute much now that there's no pressure on him.

[Kasumeat]

I feel like NM’s pushes and general play this game seem more like how he was in the normal vs. the theme game, with how he seems vaguely workable but isn’t actually being reasonable
In the other game his motives were super-abstract but it didn’t feel like he was keeping that same facade of being somewhat talkable-to

As for those other 2, Panzer I still distrust but I need to review flips and see where I think he stands given them. Pooky I still think is town meta-wise because my gut hasn’t been proven wrong yet I think, but just generally I’m a bit leery of

Going through NM's ISOs, I'm not seeing that at all. The game NM himself posted actually looks like a reason to meta read NM as scum here, but your examples do not.

This is yet another push from Gamma I really hate.

[Kasumeat]

Sorry for disappearing, had a really busy day yesterday and a long day today but am catching up now.

kasu why are you completely ignoring the bulge in this analysis.

I wanted to see if he would continue to push a yeet on OW, since that's one of the big things I'm SRing him for.

He's still interested in it but not really trying very hard to convince people. I'm not sure if this is more likely to come from town!Bulge who legit believes it's a good idea to yeet OW here (which IMHO is an extremely bad idea, I'd have to be about 90%+ certain of my read) or scum!Bulge who is just going to let his push die because it's such a scummy one and doesn't want to make anything more of it. I'm actually leaning a little towards the former at this point, but still don't love this slot.

[Kasumeat]

vote nm

We gotta do it at some point and tonight is a better spot than tomorrow.

This is just awful, obviously. I not seeing a townie re-enter the game at this point and coming to the conclusion that because "we gotta do it" it's time to yeet NM. I don't hate an NM yeet but the timing and lack of a case or reason here just seems like lazy scum hoping to capitalise on a misyeet that others have been building.

[Kasumeat]

anyone who still believes the ic claim.....i don't know what to tell you.

It's not just about believing the claim. I think it's sketchy as hell. And I agree 1000% with Shea's 2557. But from a pure game theory point you have to be so fucking certain that Blitzo is scum here to yeet him because of how incredibly bad it is if the claim is legit. Not to mention Shea's points about it being a very strange spot for scum!OW to make a claim that 100% gets yeeted tomorrow if it's fake.

[Kasumeat]

Brain fart, I meant OW

[Kasumeat]

The Gamma vs Pooky is, hmm. I like that Gamma is digging and Pooky is actually engaging, but I don't like how Gamma was so quick to change his vote. I don't see what Pooky did to convince him. And Pooky is continuing his pattern of only engaging while there's pressure on him and being quite self-centred, though at least there's something that looks like Pooky is interested in solving a player other than himself.

Pooky, what do you think of NM and Panzer right now?

Gamma, what exactly happened in your exchange with Pooky (or out of it I suppose) that made you move your vote from Pooky to Panzer?

FWIW I'm happy to yeet Panzer but with us being at L-2 and NM still being around I'm in no hurry to vote there.

[Kasumeat]

Interesting. I hadn't really considered a Bulge-OW scumteam given that OW is one of my top TRs and there are so many other players that I'm SRing but this actually explains Bulge's insane push on OW here, which was mind boggling from both a scum!Bulge and town!Bulge perspective. But this make sense.

Bulge, other than OW, who are your top SRs right now? TRs?

[Kasumeat]

Is there even a case on me, or is it just outworld repeating "panzer is scum" over and over again?

The same it's been forever: You have barely posted, but what you've posted is scummy.

[Kasumeat]

@Panzer why have you added Bulge to your scumpool? Why is Gamma out?

[Kasumeat]

@chickenkatsu, I already answered your question.

Bulge you did explain, but literally the only thing you've said re: Gamma is: "his play recently is p clean". Why is this?

[Kasumeat]

The massclaim doesn't make much sense to me. On the other hand, given how many PRs are already claimed/flipped/crumbed, it doesn't seem like it'd hurt much either. So consider me slightly opposed. FWIW I can't ever recall being in a situation where the suggestion of one has come up so I have no personal experience to draw on.

[Kasumeat]

VOTE: Panzer
L - 1

[Kasumeat]

Just on my way out for the day, will try to phonepost if possible but if not I'll be able to catch up for real tonight.

[Kasumeat]

I'm VT

I'm a loyal jailkeeper. targeted pooky n1 for reasons I can't recall because i crumbed panzer. outworld n2 to check the softclaim. kasu n3 should clear him because there was no reason to nk.

I've never played with Loyal before. Does it return a fail if you target the opposite alignment? I.e. if this claim is true, would this mean that Pooky is town?

[Kasumeat]

VOTE: The Bulge

nice scumclaim

Huh? Is this because he was trying to Lim you Yesterday or because of his posts Today?

[Kasumeat]

isnt 7 and 8 the same thing

not only is that true, he slipped that he knew that already.

I'm a loyal jailkeeper. targeted pooky n1 for reasons I can't recall because i crumbed panzer. outworld n2 to check the softclaim. kasu n3 should clear him because there was no reason to nk.

...what?

I think he's saying that your claim of "no reason to NK" only makes (somewhat dubious) sense if you're aware that the player count just went from an expected 7 to what is now 8. And it's a valid point. Why do you mean? Did you mean "no reason NOT to NK?"

[Kasumeat]

Will post more tomorrow when I have time, but for now phone posting. Bulge and OW, who are your preferred lims today? I would prefer Shae or Gamma or NM. I just hate everything about how Shae has handled Bulge's claim. And I still hate Gamma's earlier posts that look like has scum slips, even if I haven't hated him as much lately.

NM can go too but would be my third choice compared with the others who are actively scummier. Well, given that it's NM. One thing that actually gives me a sr is that IIRC he tends to prefer weirder choices for the NK.

Pooky I actually like more and more given how he's handled Bulge's claim. I don't think scum typically have the courage to try to dispute the claim here. See: Bulge's push on OW after the claim, and Bulge's point about scum being more likely to believe OW's claim which I think applies here too for the same reasons.

Blitzo I'm a town on and would be my last acceptable choice. Limming Bulge is off the table for at least the Day given that he's almost a lock for the NK if he's town.

[Kasumeat]

viewtopic.php?p=12221830#p12221830
viewtopic.php?p=12255972#p12255972

[Kasumeat]

Gah sorry I've had a super busy weekend and should've been on VLA.

[Kasumeat]

Should have more time to post tomorrow, but briefly:

So I “scum slipped” by thinking MCat’s Pooky case sounded decent and seeing Noraa’s claim for what it was? How are those slips at all? I could see you calling that scummy nothing was “slipped” in the slightest.
I was not convinced MCat was scum before his lim, so the fact I treated him like he could be town means nothing. Obviously if MCat flipped scum I would have to take the case with a grain of salt.
As for Noraa’s claim, I had seen her get cold feet on fakeclaiming PR as VT in another game so I understood how her signals on softing could be a little wonky. And despite me making it clear I had a high bar for the claim, she claimed a super weak role. That is not a move I see newbscum doing. And you were in that game where Tywin Lannister screwed up his PR claim, so why the hell couldn't you see that Noraa was making the exact same mistakes as he was?

I went over this, but here it is for the millionth time: MC had been voted and was about to be flipped. Your reaction was "oh I like this case that MC just made". That's not a post that comes from the mindset of a town. Town is excited about seeing the flip. Town might be interested in the case MC just made AFTER seeing the flip but to be focusing on it beforehand is not the state of mind town has here.

And re: Noraa's claim, you were defending her despite her explicitly lied about her role. Absolutely, as in the Tywin game, we all know that town can shit the bed this hard. But you're talking about it with a level of certainty that is unnatural for town to have. And as you saw in that game, the wagon on the village idiot was mostly town, and his biggest defenders were scum. This looks very, very similar to me.

[Kasumeat]

@Kasumeat before I proceed, what is your reason for playing mafia?

Mostly because I like to feel clever.

[Kasumeat]

You?

[Kasumeat]

I'm sorry all I feel bad and will catch up as soon as possible but I've started a new job with crazy hours and my internet was out for a while and got fixed and then crapped out yet again. I will catch up ASAP, I promise.

[Kasumeat]

Okay I've caught up reading. I have to leave soon but first thoughts:

I'm now really unsure what's happening with Bulge. The claim is now somewhat more dubious given last night but moreso that he hasn't been yeeted yet if he's town given the vote on him.

[Kasumeat]

Shea's vote Today is so scummy too. I feel like it comes from a really frustrated townie or it's scum theatre between Bulge and Shea but that seems, like, really unlikely.

[Kasumeat]

Scummy on the surface, that is.

[Kasumeat]

I really hate Pooky's push. Seems like he's just focusing on something that isn't solving. And Gamma still hasn't done anything to convince me, but I think that figuring out Shea/Bulge is a better idea than either Today.

[Kasumeat]

Anyways I'm off to work but will hopefully be back on tonight and definitely tomorrow. Again I'm sorry I don't have time to contribute more right now.

[Kasumeat]

Shea's vote Today is so scummy too. I feel like it comes from a really frustrated townie or it's scum theatre between Bulge and Shea but that seems, like, really unlikely.

Why is it scummy? You keep taking random shots saying things I do are "scummy" but with no analysis at all.

Your analysis following it here doesn't even suggest that you think its from scum. But what is the scum motivation to just yolo take a 50-50 today when they could have that same play available to them any time later in the day without putting their name in the two person lim pool immediately to start the day? Like yeah this could be a gambit but is it really a likely one?

Yeah I didn't elaborate well here because I was rushing to get to work. What I meant is that there is a lot about your vote that feels scummy at first but when I thought about the motivation for it I think there is a possibility you're town.

[Kasumeat]

I don't know, I've been paranoid of shea all game but when he actually sits down and talks to people or addresses things it seems like it clicks. Maybe it's just because he's town and bulge is just scum because him not protecting the IC is just awful and kasu really isn't that towny either.
Like I've been asking for a huge period of time about why kasu is town and I still don't think I've gotten a single answer. I got something on meta but that's not really that great either, especially with his whole current "bland comment and dip" strategy he's got going on right now.

I also feel like a lot of the arguments for bulge being town at this point are wifom and weak.

You're right that I haven't been contributing as much as others are, and again I'm sorry to everyone for that. I usually only play Mafia when I have lot of spare time on my hands and when I signed up I figured that would be the case but I ended up going from barely-working, anticipating that I'd have lots of time to spare, to briefly-not-working to working-a-lot in a really short period of time. I never, ever lie about IRL stuff in Mafia, town or scum. That's something that's out of the spirit of the game IMO. I hope everyone sees that I'm doing my best to solve as much as possible with limited time I've had available to commit to the game.

[Kasumeat]

sigh
i really don't feel good about my pooky read

What's changed and why?

[Kasumeat]

Next in the lineup is Kasumeat.

For Kasu, I have a comparison I’d like him to attempt to do. Try to fit the players in this game into the behavioral molds of the players in our last game together. I have my own ideas, I want to see yours. To clarify, I want to know who out of your theorized scumteam is playing like which scum from that other game, and similar things for the flipped town and people still alive that you think are town.

I don't remember a whole lot about that game and I'm not going to re-read it in detail, but from what I recall and a skim, I don't see a lot of parallels to draw.

In that game, there was a townblock of me and Boon vs. another block of mostly lead by Town Gamma and Town Michael Smith, and the whole thing hinged around my townblock attacking the village idiot Tywin for being scummy and your townblock defending him for reasons that were a combination of things I don't remember/you being better at Mafia than me. I was like 100% certain that you and Michael Smith were scum because you seemed really certain that the village idiot was town. Then I got NKed on N2 and didn't follow the game much after that. I'm honestly not sure what parallels you're trying to draw here because the only thing I can maybe see is Noraa being a townie who decided to blatantly lie, but this game hasn't hinged around her the way our previous game did around Tywin.

[Kasumeat]

sigh
i really don't feel good about my pooky read

What's changed and why?

what's changed since when lol

What are you saying you don't like about your Pooky read then if it hasn't changed?

[Kasumeat]

Yeah the more I'm thinking about it the more Gamma's vote on you feels more like an excuse to have a vote on you than an actual read - his reads in general this phase have felt very stiff (there was a semantic misunderstanding between you two therefore Shea must be scum); he thinks I'm scum because NM was a lurksack (psa NM is nearly always a lurksack). like I think he wants us dead but I do nottttt buy that he's tried to sort either of us.

I read Shea as town for kinda similar reasons to why I weakly read Pooky as town I think? particularly I think him coming into today with absolutely no chill for Bulgey's claim is town indicative and I think his frustration with others not seeing it the same way has an indignant energy which is like, very hard to fake believably as scum.

Pooky is in a similar area with the way he grabbed me and shook me when I took Bulge's claim at face value but not quite as strong, just similar kinda gamestate position read.

I'm trusting you to get me right here Shea.

How do you explain scum!Bulge making a gambit claiming Tracker with a flipped Checker is in the game? From a gamestate where scum are unquestionably well-positioned, at that. The more I think about it the more I think it's pure insanity.

[Kasumeat]

You skipped part of the question but in doing that you also digressed into your own original thought process which I like.

So my thinking about the scum is the Shea very much resembles rb in that game: a very vocal scum who got off to a strong start and then got tepid in the mid-stages. I was originally thinking Pooky resembled Flubber as the openwolf operative, and either nm/tw or Blitzo was the quiet TFL-like scum. Now that I’m set on Blitzo being scum, though, I realize Pooky and Blitzo are a really weird partner choice. Maybe NM is the open wolf in the scenario I’m working with rn? As for the town players, Noraa is 100% a parallel to Tywin in that game, beyond that the image gets hazy. That’s where your idea might clear things up. I remember Panzer making those 2 player pools, I also recall I sussed him for them after a good number of those players flipped town, as such it might be that that’s where the “two opposed townblocks” have manifested in this game?

Thinking a little more about this, a lot of my basis for SRing you this game has been at core based on the certainty of your claims/supposed beliefs, particularly about people's alignments. While I think that's generally a good way to scumhunt most people, ultimately it ended up making me misread you badly in the previous game we played together. In this game you were significantly slower to reach that certainty so it seemed inconsistent to me with your previous townplay. However, being slower to solidify reads parallels how my own townplay has progressed as I've matured as a player and person.

[Kasumeat]

you must be on crack if you think im scum with blitzo

Humour me. You pushed Blitzo when there was very little pressure on him so that makes you impossible to be scumbros is what you're saying?

[Kasumeat]

I'm leaning towards voting Shea.

[Kasumeat]

I'm leaning towards voting Shea.

Then you'd better respond to my posts about the bulge specifically my analysis of his reaction to noraas claim or consider voting me a scum claim if bulge gets yeeted.

I don't need to respond to them because you're scum and I'm like 99% certain that Bulge's claim is legit.

VOTE: Shea]

[Kasumeat]

L-1.

[Kasumeat]

Pooky, can you please vote Shea?

[Kasumeat]

You'll do too.

[Kasumeat]

Do you seriously believe that there's a Checker in this game for absolutely no reason?

[Kasumeat]

Lol so Pooky you're Shea's bro?

[Kasumeat]

Pooky, vote Shea and we win this.

[Kasumeat]

I'm the traitor

[Kasumeat]

GO

[Kasumeat]

In case anyone was wondering how this all happened, I'm BP. I feel bad for town how lucky we got with how Bulge's role interacted with me on N3.

[Kasumeat]

Thank you for the mod Umlaut. GG everyone. As I said I feel bad for town, they got so unlucky to have one night where Bulge protected me and the scum shot me at once.

This was my first scum game on this site and I found it completely mentally exhausting. I'm sorry I wasn't more active but I find it really, really hard to post. Every sentence took like five minutes to write so given that I really was super busy IRL I found it really difficult to post much in the short period of free time I had available to commit.

[Kasumeat]

gg thanks for modding!

We were so confused who the traitor was like literally the entire game :3

I've never encountered the role before so I had no idea what to do with it. I figured it was best to try to be relatively towny since the power of the role is in being alive to vote and there was no risk of being killed by you guys by accident. I was too shook to crumb it. When there was some pressure on me early on I figured I might get yeeted soon so I wanted to pressure you a lot in case I flipped to give you some towncred.

Also I feel like having NM on your scumteam is cheating.

[Kasumeat]

Also I will be having a long post about not mafia coming up at some point.

He should not be allowed to join games if this is what he's going to do in them. It' puts a completely unfair burden on players to determine the alignment of someone who is literally not playing the fucking game.

I would feel the exact same way in your spot. Panzer wasn't any better either IMHO.

[Kasumeat]

I stand by both of those statements 100%. You did not play well.

you promised me to give feedback post game was my point.

I will say that you lied which I used to think was a bad idea for town to do in like 99% of situations, but I'm starting to think that it's a bad idea to do 100% of the time. Not only are town very likely to mislim you but it's nearly impossible to read the alignment of somebody pushing what is essentially a policy yeet on the liar.

Also, this is a personal thing, but I found that the sheer volume of posts that you made made it hard to follow the game which is +EV for scum.

[Kasumeat]

BTW if anybody has any comments on how I can improve, please let me know!

[Kasumeat]

Yeah I agree with Shea and I was on NM's team. This game would've been more fun for both town and scum without him init.

[Kasumeat]

it was not for lack of trying ~,~;;

imagine how kasu felt when he found out we tried to murder him ^_^

I figured that was pretty likely actually given how hard I pushed you early. I figured it was okay because:
a) I was BP
b) one missed NK doesn't really cost us much as long as it's only one
c) I thought the odds of town having a strong protective role was relatively low since our scumteam was presumably pretty weak

[Kasumeat]

It should have been a 1shot bp on the traitor

I feel like this is pretty unlikely to come up since BP is quite common on traitors and barring something absurd happening like having a Claimed Loyal Jailkeeping making the scumteam think the Traitor is conftown, scum would be fairly scared to shoot twice.