Mini Normal 2160 | FIA Group B | Endgame

[UnaBombaH]

So apparently my read on lilith was correct, and Ducky has been able to sway her.
Meaning that it doesn't matter if Billy believes me or not, since IV will just hammer me once lilith votes.

I could go ahead and nitpick and counter-argue everything BuDucky had to say there, but I don't honestly feel like it.
I've already admitted that I've been too focused on playing my role, and it has happened to me before as well.
Hell, my first Mini Normal-victory I was a town!Rolecop and I spent most of the game just playing around my results.
I landed the Serial Killer N1 (ausuka/mariomaniac) and one of the scumsters later (Game Replacement - alt of someone \o/ ).
Boonsky was scum there as well, and it was the first time we played together.
RC replaced into the final scumslot and I hammered him in LyLo.
And just like Ducky here, RC was able to spew these amazing walls that "spelled" scum!Thor out to everyone in the dead thread.
And guess what, my claim was true there, and it is here.
My only fault has been defaulting to my own gutreads and focusing on my night actions.
The fact that I have been able to sniff out scum!Ducky is something I am actually proud of, even if I am once more unable to assure the rest of the town.

[UnaBombaH]

Am I putting a hell of alot of weight on this one thing? Yes. Because this game is mostly noise for me. But ive got a confirmed townie that tracked him to her on N1. And I dont see alot of scenarios where thats scum. Thats literally why I'm asking for them. And for some reason thats getting mad shade.

Because you are in the right.
Your gut and instincts are correct.
And you are getting shade for it

because my actions make no sense as scum.

You can call anything WIFOM because anything can have two sides to it.
But there are just things that are sub-optimal and stupid for scum to do - for example: why I immediately knew for 100% that S_S was town when he stuck on Zombie D2.

[UnaBombaH]

But once more, I'm not going to spend any more time banging my head to the wall.
Neither should you Billy.
If you are only townreading me based on my claimed role and actions, then maybe you should just vote me and we can get this over with.

It's only a game after all.

[UnaBombaH]

hey guys don't pick on una, it's his 30th birthday. he should be drunk and gleeful rn.

Don't be

that guy

(I also just finished my work, so as a finn I have only drank hald a bottle of vodka)

[UnaBombaH]

ok so you don’t have any actual reasons for arguing scum!duck

Ummm...maybe just let me answer though?

And no, I don't think I'm able to case scum!Duck to you anymore.
If you really want to give me a chance, you could go and read all of my catchup walls and try and see beyond the cherries BuDucky obviously picked before.
Ducky has close to 1200 posts.
I checked at the end of D4 whether it was reasonable to begin building a case on how poor his votes have been...it would've been possible, but also taken ages and a serious toll on my health..
Thought it wasn't worth it, but I guess I underestimated his abilities to sway and manipulate.

[UnaBombaH]

if it's any help, i'd probably lolvote IV and hope for the best, personally

Easy to say that about your

OBVIOUS

scumbuddy, because you know that the game ends before that.

[UnaBombaH]

Like, literally that.
Duckys read and interactions with IV have been hot garbage.
He scumreads IV -> he says IV is just likely himself and town -> he scumleans IV -> he thinks IV is fine after all.
Notice how here he just took a kamikaze vote on me based on a jab I threw at him, and then *shock and horror* the game wasn't immediately over.
So another day where he doesn't have to vote for his buddy.
Ducky has been protecting and dragging IV along ALL GAME.
He has softed a scumread here and there, but there was always another lynch before that.
And today it's a freebie for him to call IV "the remaining scum tomorrow", BECAUSE THERE WILL BE NO TOMORROW.

[UnaBombaH]

Huaah...........I have no illusions whatsoever against that lilith is just town here.
And I'm also quite certain that Duckys spam and "courting" for liliths favor has been his plan all along.
This is that game where scum!Ducky fooled you lilith, just hold on to that in all of your future games and I bet you get killed by scum!Ducky N1 a lot more.

Ducky says I'm scum, because my dayplay has been garbage.
What has his dayplay been then, in retrospect?
1 scum lynched, and it was based on S_S guiltying the slot.
Other than that, without even checking, I'd argue that Ducky has been on every single mislynch (and probably I have been too), he has waffled on his reads all the way until LyLo, he voted "recklessly" (for uninformed town, mind you) in LyLo, he has been softing suspicions towards his buddy in IV all throughout the game without actually pushing for their lynch.
Whatever he has said about my dayplay, could be said about his play in this game too.
I have a feeling that too much weight is put on the fact that A) he has claimed VT instead of a PR (which doesn't make him town, it just means that he could be the scum!RB) B) he is more charismatic and likeable than I am.

And you know what?

I'm actually fine with that

, because I cannot give you an essay for my scumcase on Duck.
I've been talking about it throughout the game, and people like S_S for example KNOW that I very often have good gutreads, but struggle with the explanations and casing of people.

[UnaBombaH]

Then the fact that Ducky used EVERYTHING he could possibly find in my ISO.
For example the end of D2.
He made it look like I ddn't want to vote for Zombie, when in fact there were two VERY CLEAR reasons for why I wasn't on the wagon, and both can be found in that same ISO.
1) I unvoted Nep very begrudgingly because I felt like I got shafted by that mod-mistake. I was forced to out my role D2 because I thought it was going to be a 1for1 trade with scum.
2) I drove to the other half of Finland and I mentioned that as well. I simply wasn't around for much of D2 after that unvote, I'm not even sure if I prod-dodged much because the internet was so bad on the road.

[UnaBombaH]

Wait what?
Are you talking about me using the word "garbage" now?
I've been using it more and more IRL nowadays that the Leagues World Championships are on - nothing more than that.

[UnaBombaH]

I mean, I'm not stupid or blind.
We go Zombie-RP today then, and we all know what should happen tomorrow

if

and

when

.

he claims to have realised SS was a cop.
he was engaging with SS who was imploring him to vote zombie and leave nep for later.

Like, a simple excerpt from those walls of BS you threw at me, what is this even supposed to mean?
This is me literally telling S_S "I got it, you basically claim to have a guilty"..?
"We kill Zombie-RP today, and if/when Zombie flips green or Nep manages to pull up some other BS for D3, we should lynch S_S -> Nep."
I did not say that I immediately

knew

S_S was a town!Cop, but what other explanations were there?
He didn't budge

at all

when I screamed and shouted that Nep was lying.
Meaning that he had to have a

hard guilty

. (or theoretically was a scumster lying, which is why I inserted that if/when)

[UnaBombaH]

why are you writing off SS as lolbus scum?

I feel like everyone should, and talking about it in an extensive matter makes no difference now.
I'd say all we need is a flip from that slot to feel better.

And like this is the best example that you simply skipped because it involves

YOU

talking about it.
I didn't "write off" S_S as a lol!bussing_scum, but instead felt like it was

OBVIOUS

he was hinting at a hard guilty.
But hey, that's another slot that scum!Una left alive becaus....NIGHT ACTIONS DON'T MATTER AND THEY ARE ALL WIFOM.

[UnaBombaH]

and you think I'm AtEing? :p

I'm starting to get frustrated because you lost a partner D2 and still managed to drag IV this far AND now you are going to win as well.
Bull. Shit.

[UnaBombaH]

lilith, you are falling into the conf.bias pit that Ducky dug.
Read those quoted posts again.
Especially the last one.

idk how the worst plays maf so I'd be inclined to take SS's word for it but it still feels pockety to me

Well, if you're town, then yeah my point is it's pocketing/whiteknighting.

I outright dislike this.
Doesn't come across as confident as I had hoped S_S would be.

BECAUSE IF HE ACTUALLY HAS A HARD GUILTY, HE SHOULDN'T BE SAYING "IF YOU'RE TOWN"

?????

[UnaBombaH]

Like I said I'm still confused as to why VT zombie would do something like that. But why else would he do something like that at the start of day 2 without any pressure on him? He probably expected to die n2 to save a real town PR kill

I mean, I

guess

this could be the thing?
And I have this stupid tendency to think that scum never make mistakes like these, so I'm hesitantly leaning at least a little towards beliving you, but..
At the same time. I sort of doesn't matter what your slot/you have claimed or unclaimed.
S_S still seems so adamant about your slot, that I'm going to say you should be todays lynch anyway.

This one? How do you not understand what I'm feeling/saying here?
Just because I didn't put down a vote before I had caught up and gathered my thoughts, I'm now scum in retrospect?
I try to play the game with the mindset that scum are intelligent and cunning, and town is (more often than not), a bit dumbdumb.
It's a little pessimistic PoV, but has helped me a lot over the years.
Scum often "push for the optimal play" while town fall flat on the objective while talking about it.

My stance on policy executions is kinda confused. I'm against them in principle, because they obviate the need to actually form reads, but I will often support them in practice if they get traction because my D1 philosophy is to execute someone I don't townread, and I probably won't be townreading someone if they are policy-worthy.

So why didn't you join the sirius wagon? You weren't tring him, and it had traction at one point.

This is a smart pickup.
I still think D1 would've been way better for us, had we actually just lynched that slot.
It still hasn't done anything, and I have a feeling that the rest of the replacements would've gone a different route as well.

That doesn't make S_S scum outright, but I believe scum benefited more from what went down, and sometimes judging the actions by the results is the right way to go.

Or this one?
Notice how this post isn't supposed to be about me shading S_S - it's about me approving of Billys thoughts.
It was posts like these that gradually put him in my townpool.
I liked the fact that he went ahead and confronted/questioned S_S in a situation where I don't think scumsters would.

[UnaBombaH]

The actual timeline of D2 isn't up to question.
I was barely around, when I got back I was tired for driving overnight and sleeping poorly on the road.
And then there was a replacement, and apparently they withdrew the claim Zombie had faked?
I was reading that shit, and then S_S had gone ahead and made the posts that you have just so accurately quoted.
It was night time in Finland then, and that post we just revisited was the last one I made before going to bed.
During that same night, N_M was summoned with a chaos-ritual and he hammered the slot away.

It's not like I was ever going to vote anyone else either, but instead of "making sure I am on the bus" I simply didn't feel a need to hesitate with my judgement.
You do not know my scumgame very well (clearly), but I'm not the kind to leave myself on the fence when it was clear from the get go who was going to be the lynch for that day.

[UnaBombaH]

That doesn't make S_S scum outright, but I believe scum benefited more from what went down, and sometimes judging the actions by the results is the right way to go.

isn't.....this like..... directly shading ss?
I'm wondering if I'm overtired or if una is actually flailing so hard he's stopped making sense

No..?
I'm talking directly at Billy there.
What he had though of as a potential scumtell "doesn't outright make S_S scum", but his thought process was correct IMO, and I wanted to acknowledge that.
My own thought process about D1 was mostly about "why can't we just get rid of the useless slot D1", and this put the idea in my head that scum wanted to rather cause chaos, and save Sirius for a later mislynch if at all possible.

no this is exactly what I mean. That post doesn’t seem to be about billy at all

Conf.bias is a hell of a drug.
What more can I say - it was almost exclusively directed at Billy, and it was me saying that I thought his thought process was good, even if it did not outright spell S_S as scum.

[UnaBombaH]

Well, I did not say that "I disagree".
I did not say that "S_S is scum for that" either.
You are literally nitpicking my posts as a duo now, and you are focusing on something that is not there - a scum-agenda..

[UnaBombaH]

what does “but I believe scum benefited more from what went down, and sometimes judging the actions by the results is the right way to go” mean besides “SS might be scum”?

OH MY GOD.
It literally means that "sometimes it's the right way to go". SOMETIMES. Probably not here. Sometimes.
In other words, the thought process was good in my opinion. Just not applicable here.
Just vote me lilith if this is how you think scum!Una operates - you are clearly in Duckys corner already, and are just too scared to pull the trigger.
If you feel this ^^ confident about me being scum, you shouldn't delay the end any further.
We can discuss all of this very soon after the game has ended - just know that there was 0% scum-agenda there, and 0% shade intended towards S_S.

[UnaBombaH]

@una can you explain why you voted mwnn yesterday?

the response “it takes 4 to wagon” doesn’t count as a reason for voting

One of the problems I always have with players like BuDucky, Boon, TChill (haven't seen them in a hot minute though ) is that I keep second guessing myself.
It always starts with a gutread/paranoia about them, because I feel like my natural instinct is to like and trust what they have to say.
Same here - I initially had a lot of problems with BuDucky being so passive and fence-sitty (from my PoV at least).
I called him out on that, and I feel like he got a lot better with that. Too good I guess, with the amount of posts he accumulated.
That basically started the infinite internal back and forth I've had with them here.
It got external time and time again though.

At the end of D4 I felt very confident that the scumteam was Ducky/IV, and to be fair, I knew Ducky was not going to be the lynch then.
So I took the easier route, that still had a good chance of helping with the solve.
Lynching MWNN - no matter what he flips, was likely going to grant me an exit of the game.
I'd protect N_M, and since I was told earlier that speculating a scum!RB earlier made no sense, I trusted in my ability to save them.
Essentially forcing a MyLo instead of LyLo if MWNN flipped green, UNLESS THE SCUM KILL ME.
So that was my plan, and I really trusted that you would've kept pushing on scum!Ducky once my WIFOMy ass was out of the game.
I thought D4 almost certainly established to you and Billy that one of Una/Ducky is scum if MWNN flipped green.

[UnaBombaH]

And I happen to know that THIS is WIFOM

, and I have not said anything about this before but...scum!Una could've just no-killed last night, you know?
From that PoV, town would've still had to close the game out today, because "I'm all out of shots", and I'd have another "confirmed night action".
And we'd still be in MyLo, with a useless slot at the helm.
But because it's WIFOM, we are not going to talk about it, and just agree that Una is dumb and didn't play the optimal nightplay on this last night phase..

(queue all the quotes of Ducky saying that my nightplay and fakeclaim have been good)

[UnaBombaH]

I know frustration is getting the best of me, but I'm honestly completely spent right now.
And I bet that's all that Ducky wanted to achieve with those walls.
Just read how many times he used the word "shit" to describe my play.
He basically called my whole iso shit with quick jabs in between, and lilith gobbled it up like cupcakes.
That's town making an honest "case" when he knows that I can't answer that with his 1,5mil. posts.

I'm off for today, just please end this game before the weekend so that I can say "I told you so" in the endgame.

[UnaBombaH]

I'm gonna assume I don't need to point out the flaw in that one

Well go ahead then.

[UnaBombaH]

I get fypov why duck is conf!scum to you. Why are you so sold on his partner?

I've said it multiple times.
You and lilith are my townpool. Have been for a while already, and I've also said that.
Once MWNN flipped green, the PoE was complete.
And that is what PoE means - people throw it around as a buzzword, but it literally means "process of elimination".
Once MWNN/N_M were eliminated from the potential scumpool, there's nothing else left but IV and Ducky.

[UnaBombaH]

Yea, I'm gone for tonight.
It seems Billy is still like 100 posts behind as well, so..

[UnaBombaH]

sorry I’ll get to this, skimmed a bit in a weird order

looks like lilith weighed in and worsty/Lilith are team kill-una-on-his-birthday

This is a stupid take. My birthday has nothing to do with the game, or anyone withholding any decisions.
Just hammer me away so that I can be at peace and take some time off of Mafia again. These towns are just killing me..

[UnaBombaH]

srsly do you just ignore content about me or something

No, duck has you locked town. Im not ignoring it, but he also hasn't done like a 25 post town case on you that literally blew open my read either.

You know, Ducky has no intention to make a similar towncase about Lilith for you.. Wanna guess why?

[UnaBombaH]

Guys, I just told Captain Morgan about this game, and he really thinks that Ducky-fellow is the worst.
But it was actually DUFFY - I told him that the worst isn't a cute little duckling anymore anyway. Like at all.

[UnaBombaH]

Like how is it that scum can come up with a scumcase on town that sounds better than the truth?
Thats not a setup-balance thing.
Although some seem to think Normal games suck nowadays with the excess of wonky roles.

[UnaBombaH]

If IV isn't scum here, I'll change my avatar into a pile of ducks.

[UnaBombaH]

Would be hilarious, except it isn't.
Maybe just lynch me and get the game over with now?

[UnaBombaH]

..and in case you are NOT in a PT with Ducky already, I'll give the same summary.
The scumteam is either Ducky+you, or Ducky+I_do_not_understand.
So basically this replacement changes nothing, and it's just a different slot holding the lolhammer once one of the remaining townies decides to finally vote.

[UnaBombaH]

I only get this discouraged and frustrated in the face of injustice.
But then again, this is a game where one has to understand that it's not necessarily "injustice" when scum can make a better case than you can.
When that happens, they deserve the win, and you deserve to be lynched because you were unable / too lazy to defend yourself to the best of your abilities.

[UnaBombaH]

im pretty convinced duck is town and I dont think anything can move me off of that at the moment. He basically empied his heart into the thread today.

If you really think that Duck is unable to do that as scum, then you are just wrong.
I would be able to do that as scum.
I've done it as scum.

This here <--- this is a game that the worst himself modded.
And he did the same thing here, that I did there.
(Biggest difference obviously being that this game has over 220 pages, while that one was finished within 50 )

[UnaBombaH]

Ducky making fun of me calling him a "mastermind" is him talking about himself, his own meta, in a way that fits his goals this game.
He would've wanted for IV and one of you to vote me sooner, as soon as possible tbh, but once lilith still held onto the brakes and Billy wanted help with "tomorrow", he had to adapt again.

It's not him pouring himself into the thread, it's him playing as scum and reacting accordingly.
But like said, I'm already rather resigned by comments like Billy saying "I don't think anything can move me".
I have better things to do than try and plead for someone who initially had it correct all by themself, and then got told what to think and do.

[UnaBombaH]

you're doing nothing to weaken my scumcase or prove that *i* am scum. :p

Oh I've already given up on that. I'm just venting my frustration at Billy/lilith.
Like, I even tried to answer everything lilith asked of me, and instead of throwing another question at me once I was done answering the first, all that she held onto was a misinterpretation of my answer.
So if she doesn't take my reasoning at face value when I answer to something she has taken from you - at face value - I do not see how I could persuade them to do the right thing.

[UnaBombaH]

For example - I got so fking pissed at that comment about "what a weird way to say X".
You can call it my use of english then, because I wrote it as town with no agenda, AND would've written it as scum as well WITH NO AGENDA.
You managed to read everything I've said in a negative light, and lilith just chomped it down.

[UnaBombaH]

your reasoning is that scum must have some supergenius 37,000iq gameplan and have noticed a significant number of obscure crumbs

This sort of was the requirement if there was no roleblocker/strongman involved.
Now that I know there is one, I do not care whether you saw my crumbs about being indecisive etc. - you simply knew you had the necessary answers to my ability.

[UnaBombaH]

It's all about hand-eye-coordination.

[UnaBombaH]

It's funny how many sports translate well to others.
I've been playing a ton of Floorball in the past ten years and "Pesäpallo" (finnish national sport, similar concept to how baseball works) when I was a kid at school.
Even if the equipment used to hit the ball and the balls themselves are totally different, I've noticed that I can still hit the ball with a very high % in Pesäpallo, because I've been practicing hitting the ball from the air in floorball.
Similarly to how Ducky is scum here, and should be smacked down midflight..

[UnaBombaH]

Because I had to start somewhere, and the one thing I started with was a simple enough thing to explain, and one of the more obvious forced "scumtells" Ducky brought forward.
And even after I explained that to you, your final retort to that was quoting Duckster who called it a "wild way to say" something.
If you can't see how discouraging that can be, well then..?

[UnaBombaH]

Can you point to one time in this game where you pushed duck, questioned him on his actions and/or reads, or tried to garner votes on him to build a wagon?

I immediately remembered an instance:

Wait, Froppy is the waterD/Sirius -slot?
Who's the leading advocate for that lynch this day and time?

Ducky came in voting it.

OK.
VOTE: the worst - time to solve this shit today instead of me resorting to paranoia every now and then.

bro you're meant to be voting scum or pretending to vote scum stopppp

This was me asking who was advocating to lynching that slot at that time (think it was D3).
My "Miss Marple"-logic suggests that in games that have a "policy-lynchable" slot like Sirius/Froppy/WaterD/whoever, it's often scum who keep coming back to the honey pot, but don't actually want the lynch to necessarily ever go all the way through.
I really, really wanted it D1, but people insisted on sidetracking it and we know the results of it.
The whole trajectory of this game was formed by those claims from MWNN and Nep as early as D1.

And after losing a buddy D2, I felt like scum would likely start D3 with an easy push on the Sirius-slot, before actually moving somewhere else.

[UnaBombaH]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[UnaBombaH]

lilith - when I say "it's a smart pickup" I'm giving credit to Billys thought process.
There was no need for him to come up with that, or to put himself out there when S_S was obviously spearheading that lynch on a guilty (or once again, a faked one but very very unlikely).

The following lines are not me shading or "pushing for scum!S_S".
I'm just stating that while that thought process is reasonable, I do not think it's applicable to S_S there.

I can't put that into any more blatantly than that, and if you don't think that's true, fine.
If you don't understand me, fine.
But just know that regardless of alignment, I would've always said that same thing and it had absolutely ZERO% of shade towards S_S intended.

[UnaBombaH]

oh yeah my memory actually served me well there.

you've just now said that your reasoning for voting duck at that time was that he was on the "easy" wagon, but then you literally never mentioned that wagon to him again to ask why he was on it. you said you voted him in order to solve him, but I didn't see any evidence of you trying to do that.

Well did you just look at his reaction to my vote?
"no, I'm not scum, stop"
Instead of engaging me in a discussion about it.

[UnaBombaH]

For example on how the day continued:

Are you townreading froppy?

No, but I feel like Duck needs to activate before I'm gone.

Lead to

oh no. you seem to have me confused with 2018 duck. i'm not as performative anymore, i go as hard as i want when i want.

This is Ducky clearly stating that he doesn't feel like putting in effort..no?
Well, he certainly did put in effort today, so I guess he just didn't want to do it earlier.

[UnaBombaH]

these feel passive. It doesn't come across to me that you're actually worried about duck being scum or that you are attempting to solve him. You go straight from "engage with me" to "let's take scum!duck as a given" without showing any development on how you became so certain.

Well here you have to, again, actually read what I wrote instead of what he pointed out about it.
I called his non-committal style scum, and tried to provoke him into an actual dialogue.
He kept dodging it, and then voted for me because he didn't see another way out of the situation.
One of the reasons why my push towards him was stalled and killed was you actually - if you go see your own posts in between mine and his, you are calling him town at almost every possible turn.
It didn't feel like it was reasonable at all to think I'd get Ducky lynched then and there, so I decided to bide my time with that read and solve as well.
Had I been killed overnight as I kept hoping, maybe someone would've understood that Ducky was scum and my call-out was correct.
Obviously resulting in one of the reasons for me being kept alive until LyLo.

[UnaBombaH]

what does his reaction have anything to do with whether or not you pushed him?

What?
I tried to engage in a discussion with him to help with the whole solve of the game.
He kept dodging me because he knew that providing content towards me/with me was the biggest risk of slipping and actually getting caught.
So he avoided that.

[UnaBombaH]

this is what I feel like your entire D5 has been like.

I ask you to show yourself engaging with your scumread on duck

, and your response is to be like "but duck wasn't engaging there!" okay, and????

that wasn't the question I asked.

You are so far gone at this point...
You asked for a point in time that I was pushing for him - ^^ this is that time.
You then disagree with me (??) on the fact that I was...pushing him?
I WAS THE ONLY ONE WILLING TO EVEN VOTE FOR HIM THERE.

[UnaBombaH]

I'm so conflicted Lilith. Part of me wants to omgus vote una because his push on me is transparently phayke. The other part of me just wants to vote Froppy because we're already pressuring her so well. Why am I not a doublevoter this game??

This is Ducky posturing a fence-sit when I've been voting for him a while now.
And instead of engaging with me in a 1v1 discussion, he dodges me at every turn, and then turns to lilith for "support" and cover.
But then you pose an actual question to him:

can you summarize general reasons for scum!froppy for me?

pass

???
And yet this is not scummy "based on dayplay", but my push on Ducky was non-committal and apparently now a "vanity wagon" as well?
Seems about right.

[UnaBombaH]

I didn't retract my push there!
AGAIN, you are defaulting to conf.bias and stopping there when it fits your current read on me.
I'm already putting together the quotes that followed.

[UnaBombaH]

BuDucky just can't see beyond my scumread on him.
He has Lilith so deep in a pocket, that he feels comfortable enough to just vaguely skirt around my slot.
If Ducky really wanted, he'd understand my frustration as well.
That vote on me is merely symbolic - he knows I'll be mislynchable from this point onwards.
And yea, my own crumbs likely lead to this, so maybe it's going to be me getting my just desserts.

I'm calling it now - Froppy is town, I'll be mislynched tomorrow because of consequences, and the remaining scumteam is BuDucky-IV.

This was the moment that I felt certain with scum!Ducky, so if you are actually asking for the moment where my gutread transitioned into an actual reasoned scumread on him, I guess this is the moment.
His unwillingness to commit into a dialogue with me, him constantly "looking at lilith for help and support" are both clear scumtells for BuDucky.
The one thing that was still puzzling me was their partner though, and this is also the point where Froppy started to look like a reasonable partner-candidate.
Would've also explained why Ducky unvoted so quickly to OMGUS me.

[UnaBombaH]

he dropped a nonsensical theory on someone who is increasingly obvtown (hi it's me) and then left

There isn't much truth at all within this span of words.

At least not from a neutral standpoint and PoV.

I went nowhere, and you becoming "increasingly obv.town" is just something you say to try and suggest it around.

I feel like your position should be pushed and questioned now because otherwise you'll just slide to the endgame and we'll be none the wiser.

Was soon followed by

VOTE: Una

So he votes for me, and then finally gives his "reasoning" for his push on Froppy before (because now he finally has the material and narrative for it. This is exactly what scum do when they need more time to come up with a plan - vote a dead-ass null slot until something else "comes up".)

summary of my case against froppy: this is a towntelling list and I unambiguously do not townread froppy at all. Sirius was dead ass null but I was happy to let him live a phase or two. Waterd's self towncase was dull and easy to fake as scum, but I was happy to give him the benefit of the doubt. Froppy's iso is dull but I was happy to give her the benefit of the doubt.

+

Froppy is scum with Una but I do in a vacuum think una is playing this phase in worse faith. I kinda hinted at this earlier but w/e they can be scum together

So now the story was "Froppy is still scum, but Una is their partner and I'm willing to lynch either".

[UnaBombaH]

i kinda wonder how anyone can read this game and take away "the worst has successfully pocketed lilith"

There’s a possibility that my scumread on four is more based on him playing like he’s informed and it’s due to his role, but I just can’t shake the feeling that he hasn’t attempted to help solve at all

this resonates more with me

Yea, whatever that is.
Then regarding my full claim to start the massclaim followed.

Fuckitall then I guess.

I'm a Town 3-shot Indecisive Rolestopper.

Meaning that I have 3 shots (1 left), yes, but I'm also unable to target the same player twice in a row.
Hence my frustration with Nep dying last night, when I literally thought S_S would've been a priority target for scum. Not that I could've used my shot on Nep two nights in a row either.
But the part where I really screwed up was admitting that I did target S_S last night. I should've lied at the start of the day instead, and claimed that I was going to protect him the coming night.
Hence my increased frustration.

I then wanted to see whether either of

S_S or TW

would've been on alert for me to try and directly hint my problem to them, and possibly be able to come up with a plan in secret.

If I were to think at least one of you/S_S was town, I might have something like

2630

ways

to explain myself discreetly enough

to either of you.

I've done this in a game before, but I can't remember which.

Oh, I remember. It was the one where Boon and I were both vigis.

..but Ducky insists on not realizing any of that. Maybe he didn't, but in that case it's only because he didn't want to/feel the need to.
Then Ducky finally posts "towards me" again.

i'm fine with the claims/crumbs
una what is your read progression looking like rn

i love how we stopped playing mafia and started playing "look at this fancy jigsaw i put together"

Because you are pissed off at the fact that I'm a claimed PR and S_S is basically confirmed town and clearly believes me.
But there's a clear change in your mood soon enough when you realize that S_S can be killed for free the following night, so it was all good for you after all, right?

una what is your read progression looking like rn

Something_Smart
lilith2013
Billy Pilgrim (upon reread doesn't seem to have an agenda. I feel like they get scumread for misinterpretations mainly)
TheFourEyedDude (independent of the claimed Informed)
Froppy // Not_Mafia (independent of the claimed "IC") <---- neither slot has done anything, and I'm annoyed by the fact that N_M is basically coming/going to the LyLo no matter what because he poses no threat to the scum, even if conf.town. -_-
innocentvillager
the worst (combination of gut and trying to salvage an agenda from their posts. I feel like they are still somewhat holding back. We need more decisive actions now, and town!Ducky can be decisive.)

Look at my readlist.
Ducky in the bottom, with explanations, and IV+froppy the two rungs barely above.
Because I felt like Ducky was scum, and one of these two was going to be their buddy.

[UnaBombaH]

I literally do not see any other "pairings" than the blatantly obvious FourEyes/N_M.
Which actually annoys me a little.

I even admitted that my earlier call-out on Ducky/IV was just that.
A call-out for scum!Ducky paired with the one slot that felt reasonable at the time.

you know iv is like, actually secretly very experienced, not a cute noob right
his cute noob persona is a thinly veiled attempt to hide his dark twisted mind

other than that.....idk man i don't really have anything to say about your reads. they sure do consist of information. cool.

Funny how things like this weren't included in his long wall. (obviously not)
He admits that IV is a good candidate for scum as well, and he actually admits that my reads "consist of information" and he has nothing to refute them with.

i feel like lilith keeps swinging painfully close to null for me but maybe that's because i've been on the receiving end of her extreme paranoia? i feel like it's hard to decide whether her probing this game is coming from a sincere solving headspace or just trying to look like it's accomplishing stuff.

????

still don't believe you actually scumread me here.

But I did.

I'm at the point with Froppy where I'm so bored of absolutely annihilating her slot and having her do absolutely nothing but complain about not being given a chance despite being actively given an abundance of chances that i want her out of the game about as much as i want a scumflip. like she's a worse distraction than NM at this point.

That's a convenient reason to give, but you just called me out for "not having a read on Froppy".
Despite your read on him being "I'm tired of him and he is useless".

I mean, if you were reading my posts this phase, I think you'd notice that despite powerdriving a wagon on them I am really uncertain on their alignment and don't feel comfortable with this gamestate and would reeeeeally like them to do something sortable

but yeah you know what sure ok I'm the evil scum pushing the scum!froppy narrative good work una well done you got me

And this is Ducky already giving themselves some ease with the upcoming green flip from froppy. And that last line is literally the same thing he has been throwing at me and about me all the time.

I'm always trying to pocket Lilith, it's just not alignment related.

Yea, just in case you really didn't ever read this and still don't want to admit it to yourself lilith.

to boot: once again I have made no attempt to pocket Lilith this game, and reciprocally I think the only sign she's made that she could have some pocket equity for me is begrudgingly admitting that she can see me as town at the start of this phase

Oh nevermind, he says here that he hasn't done it, and therefore it hasn't happened.

I know it must feel annoying to you at a personal level lilith, but Ducky HAS been pulling at your strings throughout the game, and it is always difficult to notice it yourself when it's going on.
That doesn't make you a bad/weak player at all - it just comes with Ducky being very good at what he does, and being a nice guy outside of the game as well.
Easy to fall for.

[UnaBombaH]

Yea, I'm not even sure how I was taunted into doing this again.

[UnaBombaH]

guess what una? the comment about pocketing me isn’t fucking relevant! it’s a reference to us being friends. Furthermore, I don’t care if duck has been trying to pocket me.

This also sort of worries me.
He says he hasn't pocketed you here, although he admits that he pockets you regardless of alignment.
And you first denying that you have been pocketed/later saying that you just don't CARE..????

My definition of pocketing means that you are overlooking scummy things he has done and are more likely to blindly follow him, because "you are in his pocket".
And it has, most definitely here, affected your ability read my posts.
You only see the worst possible intention within anything and everything I have to say.
And that's conf.bias or prejudice - you know for sure which and I can only guess and be poked at.

[UnaBombaH]

Ok...apparently my other post didn't go through?

I was just saying that I do not honestly understand what you want from me lilith.
You and Ducky have both been saying that you do not think my scumread on him has been genuine?
So I tried to show multiple quotes where I outed my reads, and it should also be visible how my read on him developed throughout that day.

I want you to show me that you in good faith engaged with your scumread on duck by questioning him to develop that read.

I did this.
I quoted multiple points where I tried to form this connection.
You can't honestly say that I didn't show this if you read what I posted before.

I want you to show that when you say you had a scumread on duck, it wasn’t just for show.

Well, I didn't get all the way through to the end of the day with my quotes, but it's there for anyone to see how the wagons rearranged.
Furthermore - S_S was still alive there, and easily my top townread.
He didn't support the Ducky-wagon either, and like I said before, it didn't feel like a reasonable lynch to even try and get through then and there.
Call it scummy if you want to, but he isn't someone you can just pighead to the gallows alone by yourself.
And even if he managed to bargain with me on and off again, it doesn't mean I'm scum or was only posturing with my vote on him.

If anything, scum!Una would want him gone as badly as I'd want S_S or someone else who I've played more with.
Not annoy him into scumreading me, and then pull back.
Ducky is scum here, and apparently I'm just bad at the game, or we speak/write/read two completely different languages.

[UnaBombaH]

seriously Titus hurry your ass up because I really want to vote

This is also bullshit.
Just vote me and get this over with.
Titus is probably lurking around just ready to drop the hammer once it's available.
He is not going to actually solve anything here.

[UnaBombaH]

@Una, Do you have any dispute with Worst's wall?

None whatsoever.
It's a well-crafted scumcase on town.

[UnaBombaH]

I'm here, not gonna hammer.

[UnaBombaH]

You will never catch me alive!

VOTE: UnaB

[UnaBombaH]

Still town btw.

[UnaBombaH]

Yea, GG to all.
And I was actually willing and eager to surrender when IV replaced out.
Didn't feel like going on at that point, and the idea of waiting for a replacement didn't feel like a nice prospect at all.
And even if that replacement would've been able to win alone on the last day, it wouldn't have felt the same.

Luckily Titus was willing to replace into this mess, and so quickly too!
Huge props to her.

I'm sad/mad that Zombie got guiltied N1.
We would've been in such a great LyLo a day earlier if that hadn't happened, but you know..it's not like I had a role that could've protected my friends..

[UnaBombaH]

Hope to play on the same side with you in the future lilith!
It was very hard at times to try and "poke at you", but it also felt like the only way to keep disrupting the gamestate when we were starting to fall behind..

[UnaBombaH]

Oh, and that misunderstanding we had D1 was definitely NOT intentional.
AND the times we argued about my choice of words regarding something that I said D1 or D2...yea, I'm still telling you and Ducky that I didn't intend any shade towards S_S.
It was just the way that I write, and def. would've been the same from town!Una who was commenting on something that Billy had said.