Mini Normal 2153: Post-game

[Bellaphant]

VOTE: bob

Late! And going to be later, it's 2am(ish) here

[Bellaphant]

@galron, tell me about your vote?

[Bellaphant]

@una, that may be Bella, my more famous name-sharer..I am not very famous (I mainly have a reputation for being nice and doing quite well in lsgs). Sorry!

[Bellaphant]

@klick, rvs, rvs, rvs...

[Bellaphant]

@klick, why would you not participate in RVs? Would you like to make a serious vote? There are like two day one wagons I'd be kinda fine with already.

[Bellaphant]

I think my current vote is fine. Also mid key bothered that galron seemed to change his RVs to...more RVs?

I'm not seeing anything either way in dunnstral, I got a weird vibe from Bob and that's ..fine? I don't know how I feel about hoops' saying it's opportunistic. It also kinda bothers me that Bob didn't have a vote down (also klick, your vote is kinda bad?)

[Bellaphant]

Just seems weird to post 'second' rather than engage/RVs/anything? Like, I checked the thread before I went to bed, chucked an RVs down . Maybe it's like ... internet culture 'f to pay respects' but it just seemed odd? I'm more bothered by galron's vote.

[Bellaphant]

@klick, my vote is really clearly pressure at this point - I don't get what he did, I'd obviously like to see more.

I hate that you didn't engage in RVs, but I'm trying not to fixate on you. I'm not giving with popops post though.

[Bellaphant]

...vibing! Not giving

[Bellaphant]

I don't think your entrance was good but 'scum asks questions' feels forced. I don't like how you avoided voting but I think you a vote on Gera because he was annoying you, not because you 'caved' or to 'pacify". Like, you feel off but the reasons popo is giving also feel really reachy/confabulated.

I prefer your vote on me, but Isis is right, you are giving really weird vibes.

[Bellaphant]

Town-
Una
gera
Her majesty

We’re off to a good start.

Pedit
I get it! I personally thought fall out boy and panic were better, and new politics as well. I think there’s a pic of me in the tee from the show somewhere here on the site.

Definitely not the worst performance I’ve seen but I’ve seen some great ones

I've not caught up but: we went to see fob in Manchester, supported by new politics (who gave us a shout out from the state for being like the only loons dancing for them, pleasing my Danish bff muchly.) Also supported by .. .pretty reckless, who were shit, weirdly entitled and we literally played cards against humanity in the pit because they had that small an audience/interaction.

[Bellaphant]

I was town reading Una but super unsure about their town read on bon - can you explain? I'm still underwhelmed.

Im also low-key tr-ing not science.
Galron came back, ignored my question and posted nonsense. So

[Bellaphant]

VOTE: galron

Can we give this more attention?

See, I didn't love their music (sorry, I like a lot of your list!) And Thier attitude stunk, and was a really bad comparison to how genuinely thrilled new politic seemed to be to be there..I dunno if the crowd, being British, knew them less? But I'dve taken Paramore!

[Bellaphant]

Also, Una, I do better one on one so throw some posts at me

[Bellaphant]

Tbf hoops, almost half of the game aren't pruducing content.i just looked at some of Gera's other games wondering if he was just lhf, but apparently not.

[Bellaphant]

I don't agree with isis' take on klick either, like. .you notice town being obvs town no matter what role you are?

Klick, keep talking. I scum read you less when you are engaged

[Bellaphant]

Sorry Gera, I meant galron, and lhf = low hanging fruit. See above. I' skin read another game of theirs earlier and they actually engaged and posted content. Your content is fine! Although I don't have a massive read on you yet

@klick, I think I'm honestly just enjoying the slightly chill vibes? I've never spoken about fall out boy in a mafia game before - also, the thing that tends to happen day one (I give out some vague thoughts and suddenly scum-read!) Isn't happening. I'm trying to make my weird 'feels' more concrete, which is helping? Akthought when I explained about bobs 'second' you did respond by saying it sounded made up!!

@galron, why did you switch your vote.

[Bellaphant]

...was the bunny thing just a joke I didn't understand? I thought it was a 'vote' in disguise.

[Bellaphant]

Why are we wagoning someone with four bad posts as a counter to someone with 11 bad posts?

[Bellaphant]

I'm just agreeing with Una a lot.

[Bellaphant]

You feel scummy again (you know that post comes from town, surely), and that out of our two low hanging fruit wagons (plus Gera) there's one (or maybe none!) Scum and pushing Bob over gal was a weird choice in the moment.

[Bellaphant]

I'm surprised you aren't. Not definitely anything but it's weird you want to influence Una out of a townread based on something which from your pov is 50/50.

Moving to the Bob wagon is easy there (for scum especially), but I'm not convinced anyone's scum read on him in four posts is any more valid than the one I had at one post. And the people on that wagon have all tried to position it as fine.

[Bellaphant]

Your voting is particularly erratic : you don't do RVs and you seen to vote Gera to make him shut up. You then vote me due to my Bob stuff. Then follow me onto galron, then move to the next suggested wagon in bob. Your progression doesn't make much sense.

[Bellaphant]

Can you linky me?

[Bellaphant]

...^^ is a very weird jump off of a weak wagon onto a moon logic pov.

I can't work out what I think about it, but it's making me head tilt

P-edit yup, Una already said they didn't like town blocks in the first post dun quoted.

[Bellaphant]

Gera is a bad lynch, but I'm not feeling compelled by the Bob wagon, or my own! I'm not understanding klick at all here -especially after I checked the game we mentioned and he stayed on one vote for most of the day, rather than the vote flinging he's doing here.

Not science, can you chat to me? I'd rather you ask me questions agree that the Gera wagon is ass

[Bellaphant]

I'll answer you in a bit ns.

@una, valuable things? Where's your evidence? I think you have me confused with someone, genuinely maybe Bella?

[Bellaphant]

Hey not,

Scum on the leading wagons? Honestly on Gera's wagon my only town read in Una. Galron and Bob are both lacking in substantial town content, I feel very little about Popo and hoopla is confusing me - I listened to klick hype about hoop after their last game, but basically declaring a wagon of slots I see as on the scummy side of null, and the dedication to a quite weak wagon is odd.

Dun is also a scum-lean.

I've been asked about reading klick separately: in face to face I can tell he's scum from looking at him. In the last game we had healthy paranoia to each other - but slightly differently to how klick is portraying, especially at the end of day one we weren't communicating very well and this turned into his scum-reading me, but it got resolved. His drunk posting last night looked town , but his scum-reading of me super worries me, especially after all the theoretical chats we've had about playstyle. But it isn't day one unles si got low-key wagoneed at some point.

I think hoops asked me something else, coming up.

[Bellaphant]

Oh, it was about the Gera wagon. It's ass because l don't see much reason to scum read him (and a flurry of votes seemed to come after bon referenced his meta, which is questionable), I can't see much good reason for most people's positioning on the wagon and also as I've said, my reads on the wagon are not town filled.

Still catching up, getting tipsy made me sleepy, not posty

[Bellaphant]

....drunk klick looks a lot more town than sober klick and I agree with a lot of what he's saying. Ugh.

[Bellaphant]

I remember playing with dun years back when I (and he) were fairly new and being impressed, so I guess I'm also reading the slot through 'this isn't what I expect'.

Klick is a cuddle sober, tbf. He's generally happy and giggly drunk, but I'm wondering if the wine got him out of his head enough to post more naturally.

[Bellaphant]

See I did wonder that but it feels a bit tinhat? I think his confidence to disagree with you while tipsy felt more natural and I quite liked him drunkly town-binning not sci.

[Bellaphant]

UNVOTE:

[Bellaphant]

I'd eat my hat if the scum team was nitty/Una/klick

VOTE: hoops

Tbf I'd still do dun. Or popo.

[Bellaphant]

Hoops calling that wagon of nully/scummy people town was like...the real issue here..plus the random Pockety post towards me.

[Bellaphant]

I've just realised Isis has slightly more posts than me and I have very little read on the slot. A few people have slight town-leans, can they explain why? Ive filed them as tonally town, but that's fairly weak sauce.

[Bellaphant]

....were you being wierd earlier BC you were worried about suspecting hoops? Your posting feels a lot more chill since you got drunk and said it.

I assume you are reading me differently now?

[Bellaphant]

I'm never one for a really long day one anyway.

Although Una's position around the eviction is odd. 'not my fault' 'why not a lurker' etc....

[Bellaphant]

I'm not sure that's ia, though, as he also kvetched at me for saying we'd played together years ago...


I think hoops' thing about the wagon spooked enough people that I'm not surprised the vote escalated, plus Gera was being quite town and galron suddenly made some better posting, which led to me Una not being on a vote anymore..I don't think how that wagon generated was scummy at all.

[Bellaphant]

Like I kinda want to learn into dun-scum but I'm not sure why he'd point me back to meta where he was scum and ar least in the one game I went back to, pursued me for fairly non existent reasons, a bit like his approach to me here?

[Bellaphant]

Also both mine and the Gera wagon escalated quite quickly.

[Bellaphant]

See, hoop, that doesn't massively address my two concerns - either you thought the Gera wagon was great and Towny or you didn't, plus like...your post to me felt really Pockety when I feel like id been clear that I wasn't interested in Gera today. I dunno, maybe a reads list from you would help

Dun, I'm not sure what point you are making?

[Bellaphant]

....oh sorry, I can't read right now dun, ignore me

[Bellaphant]

Sorry, hoops, I don't know if I'm just stupid but I'm still not seeing the reason for declaring that ass-wagon town. It kind of feels like youve made two very long, very similar posts and not ..addressed some of the main issues.

[Bellaphant]

Can you explain why you thought those slots were town? Like, I was literally only strongly town reading Una there....

[Bellaphant]

I think Dunn has made "brave" pushes.
Against the current in a way?

I think my earlier assessment that he is stirring the pot is fair.
I'd like to think it's a towny thing to do because it gives people something to talk about and forces others to reconsider their stances.
My only problem currently is that we have pretty much started to run up almost every slot in the game so far with only a few exceptions.
And I do not see a clear choice for a D1-lynch anymore.

The stuff about dun here is demonstrably false? Apart from the Bob 1 post weirdness (which like...could actually be scum distancing) he's voted me, which got up to a wagon of...3, and hoops, which got to e-2. How are these brave pushes?

Although I do agree I'm basically scum binning half the game, but we have a lack of content.

[Bellaphant]

Sorry, the vote on you was weird , but the scum read on notty has been fairly consistent, and popo isn't a vote that's like... radical, I'd vote there myself.

[Bellaphant]

@dun, chill out. I did, in the rest of that post, talking about wagons. I didn't actually call you scum for it, and I was actually questioning Una's towniness in that statement, not yours. If you are town, atop being such a hedgehog.

@hoops...yes, I do expect you to do exactly that? Remembering things is only difficult if it was a made up comment, surely. Like....you declared a bobbins wagon town anf when I ask you to explain, you reply back with waffle about time travel??

[Bellaphant]

@galron, your poat about the wagon feels like info, not analysis - who's jump on that wagon feels scummy/badly positioned?

[Bellaphant]

Dun, I know? I corrected myself in the next post. Are you making a point or just being pointlessly negative? Coz I can engage with a point....

[Bellaphant]

I don't think you've made radical or brave wagon choices, which was what Una was saying. Are you arguing that you have?

[Bellaphant]

I did? The only vote you've made that looks radical is the one on Una. I literally talked about the other votes you made not being this, to my pov.

More interestingly, why are you picking at this? Do you think my view on your votes is scummy? Why? If you are sorting me, give me something to work with that isn't just... contraryness, coz Im going to lose interest

[Bellaphant]

I've explained, mostly....it made me more concerned about Una, because I didn't (and don't really) see it. Maybe either of you can explain why you think they have been brave and radical?

[Bellaphant]

And you did that without a time machine? Hoops is shook.

No, really, thanks. I'd still like more words from dun about it..

[Bellaphant]

Why, Galron?

[Bellaphant]

Day still has 7 days. We shouldnt be think of ending this day phase now.

Just FYI, I strongly disagree with this. Why would anyone drag on the phase of a game that has the least info? Like, ideal day one is 25-40 pages.

Also, people are scum reading hoops because she said repeatedly scummy things and then acted like justifying her own thoughts was a radical concept in a game that's designed about that.

[Bellaphant]

@mod, can emporer get a prod?

[Bellaphant]

I would be completely fine with executing Hoopla anyway
If her wagon falls apart I'll switch to popopopopopopo but I do think if we give up now we'll just be executing her D3 anyway

This basically mirrors my thoughts..I'm concerned about the level of... construction in hoops' posts (how hard is it to say you were stoned and made a few weird posts?) But like...*shrug*

[Bellaphant]

VOTE: popo

Can we have some consolidation? The fact we have four separate, not leading wagons on 2 votes cries 'vote parking'.

I'm coming around on dun, annoyingly.

[Bellaphant]

geraintm (2): popopopopopopo, bob3141
Klick (2): geraintm , Hoopla
bob3141 (2): Emperor flippyNips, Replacement for Sujimichi

I'd eat my hat if there is not scum in these wagons.

[Bellaphant]

@mod, popopo also needs a prod.

Sorry for the spam

[Bellaphant]

Why not popo? Legit question.

[Bellaphant]

I don't particularly feel that Emperor flippynips is scum, and I don't agree with thinking Klick gets mad there as a result of being scum with flippy

I really town read this post and Isis is making me all sorts of red flag for the post before it.

[Bellaphant]

@isis , I just didn't like that one post from you at all - it felt really 'constructed" in the same way hoops is coming across..

Is porkens klick? This catch up is solid..

[Bellaphant]

I will get to this tomorrow or tonight.

[Bellaphant]

@isis, stop being weird. You keep making these weird speculation posts about klick that I clearly can't respond to and it makes me super uncomfy.

Bob v notsci did very little for me...I still low-key scumread bob and townread ns.

Someone mentioned me mentioning dun - I said I was coming around on him being town, not pushing him in the post that was quoted.

I'm here now, I've read up, why am I being wagoned? Something about Popo (100% stand by a an exile of a lurker' day one, that day one was too long anyway) and a low info night kill? Anything else? I much prefer it when people talk to me, so...have at.

[Bellaphant]

Is noone else getting increasingly strange vibes from the Una/Isis back and forth of 'but how can I be scum when hoops is scum?!?!'

[Bellaphant]

Talk to me about more interesting things then?

[Bellaphant]

I don't feel like he's really...engaging? The conversation with yoy it felt like he clearly hadn't read/understood your view and was just throwing stuff around? Plus his response to your 'lynch me if you can' felt overwrought. Nothing in his slot makes me town-ping (compared to say, Gera, who I think is voting me but is obv town) and the conversation with you, I found it logical and easy to follow your thought process but didn't come away with the same opinion.

Like yesterday, I really struggled with Dun's posting style and agrresion, but there was a run of posts he made which made me go 'ugh, town bin'. I haven't had it at all from Bob, or the replacement slot. I actually used to be able to read not mafias shit posts, so I'm hoping I get something there.

It's Una and Isis I'm struggling with most. Una seems in step with me like 90% of the time and the other ten percent says alarming things. Isis I just can't get my head around at all.

[Bellaphant]

To add - at first I thought I was struggling with Bob because of low content and I like it less that he posted a page of content to you and my response is still 'meh'.

[Bellaphant]

I am like Hoops' biggest detractor do you think I'm bussing her?

Una, I think I'm reacting against this really - like, it was in response to me questioning a tone thing and felt like an overreaction: I'll reread the convo you had with her and try and read it without that colouring me.

I'll.go back and read you in iso tonight, to clarify myself about what's bugging me..I'd like to have that secure town read.

[Bellaphant]

I believe they have under-performed

But like the turning point of when you'd assess her play as an underperformance is when I started compellingly pushing her lol

It's circular

before that like maybe 1 person said she was scummy.

There is always at least one person that thinks you're scummy d1 of a 13p

Hard disagree, btw. I think klick getting drunk and suggesting a scum read changed the momentum here a lot more.

[Bellaphant]

Hey porkens, what's happened between 1109 'bella is town with a small t', 1338 'if Bella is scum these are also scum' 1398 where you shade gal for low-key town reading me and 1420, your vote? Considering I wasn't, you know, here to do anything to change your mind (apart from.just before your vote).

[Bellaphant]

But there are two posts before that where your read seems very different. When I wasn't here

I get the reaction to my post - I feel like I'm going crazy with isis, mainly, and just wanted a sense check. But I don't understand the random 'but actually if Bella's scum these are scum' when...I wasn't here? The same with shading gals town read on me.

[Bellaphant]

Gera is one of the few vote progressions on to me I understand, although why he singled my voting popo out of everyone else hasn't really been addressed.

What's worrying me, ger, is posts like the one just made by replacement - Isis is scummy but we can't read/sort her outside of lim-ing hoops. I don't think it's 'distraction' when the thing I say I'm worried about us literally happening to other people.

[Bellaphant]

How are you reading replacement and Bob, porkens?

[Bellaphant]

...have you not like, met nm ever, replacement? This is super normal.and in no way needing whatever the fuck that was. we don't need personal attacks here

[Bellaphant]

It's posts like on this page, where Una has said that she wants to execute two people she thinks are prob town (me and nm) because she can't get hoops that are weird to me. Like...she says flipping me will help her sort Isis , who she scum reads but also isn't sure if she does because she 'doesnt know who would follow her'. I'd love to flat out town read her but post like these Are so...it looks really good on the surface but when you think more it's 'una just said she'd rather execute town than pursue a scum read'

Who do you actually scum read , una?

[Bellaphant]

On the last page! I missed a page somehow

[Bellaphant]

I scum read the replacement slot yesterday but I think they've been rather town today. It might be bias because they share my Bob read.

Also, I think it was hoops who declared bob and his wagon all town day one ,- this was sketch at that time and worse in hindsight.

Una, I'm not kicking off because it's me you mentioned eliming, you asked me to point out those red flag kind of posts and boy those were some. I think it's because I tend to toen read 'reasonable', so the things that seem unreasonable come off really scummy.

[Bellaphant]

Also I feel massively under engaged with by Isis and Bob - these two people are not trying to sort me.

[Bellaphant]

Bullshit. You'd have to flip bob and Gera first, for 'less participation'.

You literally can't be arsed to talk to me?

[Bellaphant]

and now ur invitation to connect is clouded by british dialect differences

I only lapse into angry chav when I'm angry.


I town read una a lot. Tin hat she's scum with you and hoops is not! scum and a useful distraction for you both, but I read the slot as hard town. Ns is town. Porkens and gera are town. Replacement might be.

I read s lot. I feel like I'm missing some of the humour ,(bunny Isis), rfs's go off on nm, and I'm not 'kooky' like Una or hoops. I'm pretty sure you are indeed drunk tho.

[Bellaphant]

??? I voted gal because I misunderstood a joke. Did you not notice?? I voted hoops because she couldn't explain why she'd called a shit wagon on you great (plus, I trusted klick's read) and like...there is nothing wrong with the popo vote.

[Bellaphant]

VOTE: bob

[Bellaphant]

Yeah, they are super useful

[Bellaphant]

Is that a real read, nm?

[Bellaphant]

Is that a real read, nm?

Yes

Why?

[Bellaphant]

Yeah. This is also what happened yesterday - we had three wagons at 2 votes for a long time after the...bob (or hoop) wagon fell apart.

It does make me wonder if my vote is wrong, if I'm today's bob.

But I think replacement is town and peppe haven't really explained galron as a vote..I don't hate it, they are bang in the middle of my reads list, but I'd want those voting there to explain why.

[Bellaphant]

But I think replacement is town and peppe haven't really explained galron as a vote..I don't hate it, they are bang in the middle of my reads list, but I'd want those voting there to explain why.

[Bellaphant]

Sell me then, Isis.

[Bellaphant]

Galron, I thought you had a 'gut' town read on flippy? I went back and read the slot earlier and...how ? Why?

I don't think anything nm is doing right now is indicative of anything. I used to be able to read him at his shit posting best, so here's hoping.

[Bellaphant]

Like, you've posted a lot in the last two pages but a lot of it is 'nm could or could not be town' and then acting like your town read on him.is new?

I liked Isis' question about your other town reads though, because I don't feel I know.

[Bellaphant]

I iso-d you too but there's nothing massively stand out in there. Apart from randomly declaring flippy town.

[Bellaphant]

Galron managed to respond without telling me who his town reads are..and I can't work it out from his iso (the closest thing is he thinks I'm the wrong vote but also will hammer me).

VOTE: galron

E-1

[Bellaphant]

Haha the beaver is from the sup like...years ago..I keep meaning to change my Avi and forgetting.

[Bellaphant]

Oh, I meant to say galron has like 50% more posts than me but I think most people could name like...three people I'm townreading and two I'm scum reading and I just can't do that with his iso.

[Bellaphant]

It's a load of maybes again, tho, gal: less shade, why would I bother saying I'd read you if I hadn't. It's also not clear in your interactions with people that those are your reads.

Your most interesting one is scum reading Gera: why?

[Bellaphant]

You seem defensive.

I'm saying that your reads don't scream out from your posts or your interactions. Like, you say Gera's scum; where's the push? It's actually like Isis said - there's no pushes.

[Bellaphant]

Just to be clear - if the four choices are me, galron, bob or replacement - my preferences are bob/galron. Replacement is town (the above post is really town). Plus, the wagon on replacement is sketchy af.

I've asked a few times for people who are tr-ing Bob to explain why.

[Bellaphant]

VOTE: bob

Galron's response to me, while defensive, is Towny in places.

[Bellaphant]

Also, considering how little posting there has been in the last day or so (like, the last three pages 20% of the posting has come from Me, which is just weird/unusual) it makes me think scum is fine with these wagons...

[Bellaphant]

I don't have meta on you, and rhe people that have have given fairly different views on you (iirc.) You could link me to a scum/town game and I'll have a look. But I've explained my read - I don't see you trying to solve/I don't think you believe what you are saying. Tbf you are kinda admitting this is an issue, but branding it lazy town.

Plus I don't get the issue with rfs at all.

[Bellaphant]

Can you explain more why you think this game state means town/town wagons?

This is ns responding to something that hoops said, when I said a few posts above something very similar - why did you only pick it up from her?

[Bellaphant]

I’m not as worried about your throwaway comments as I am hoops

Why? You were voting me for most of the day ...

[Bellaphant]

I like this ^ post.

[Bellaphant]

We are at e-2 yea?

[Bellaphant]

...surely wagononics suggest that the person we've wagoned twice and can't elim (bob) as a direct counter wagon to town, is scum?

Not elim-ing one of hoops/bob today is just bad. We are running out of town.

[Bellaphant]

Ok, Una, but then the scum team is?? Like...let's say you aren't scum. Porkens isn't scum. I don't think Gera is. I'm null town on replacement.

We've still got three scum alive .

...I have no idea what to make of bobs revelation and I kind of don't care. I don't want these two slots alive anymore.

[Bellaphant]

Ok, Una, but then the scum team is?? Like...let's say you aren't scum. Porkens isn't scum. I don't think Gera is. I'm null town on replacement.

We've still got three scum alive .

...I have no idea what to make of bobs revelation and I kind of don't care. I don't want these two slots alive anymore.

[Bellaphant]

Eliming hoops and having her flip red in no way makes bob green for that revelation, actually.

[Bellaphant]

VOTE: hoopla

I

[Bellaphant]

Your role being able to be blocked does not mean the mod confirmed scum role blocker to you, it's disengenuos to suggest otherwise

[Bellaphant]

I don't think we gain anything by letting the day progress past maybe hoops' final reads.

[Bellaphant]

I'd almost say give her a...48 hour deadline? Then hammer. The game state just won't progress otherwise

[Bellaphant]

Yeah, so 48 hours should be fine? I just fine want to be here on Sunday.

[Bellaphant]

I was quoting..Isis? Una?? Someone .I'm not clever enough to make that up.

[Bellaphant]

I did a bit of wagon analysis over night (I'll post when I get to a computer)

Replacement is town. I'm convinced the scum is in bob and I'm actually starting to think you are scum. You keep telling us you want to flip town.

Your approach to my slot is ridiculous - you keep aggressively town reading me to my face while being fine to flip me. Flipping me doesn't solve anything

[Bellaphant]

VOTE: bob



Replacement is town. NM is prob town. I'm town. Gera is town.

Scum is in bob, Una and Isis, and that would be my order of strength of scum read as well.

Isis, look at the wagons. Look at hoops' interactions with Una, and with me. I thought you were scum yesterday but it doesn't make sense, so I have to put some faith in you.

[Bellaphant]

Tbf anyone not picking up those crumbs was blind.

Also, I think I'm condemning bob from wagons. So

[Bellaphant]

VOTE: una

[Bellaphant]

I'm not quite sure what bob is arguing? Something about wagons? I think he made the point I made about stagnant wagons yesterday, but is reframing it as new? (I said it, hoops said it, ns reacted against hoops saying it and now bob is presenting it as new and interesting?) This is kind of what happened with his ns argument - I couldn't tell that hed actually read and processed anything around his own 'push'.

Una, I just feel like 'lets lynch Bella' is lazy content right now. I said to you yesterday you've kind of run out of people to scum read and you didn't really respond then either, apart from to soft defend bob.

[Bellaphant]

bob3141 (4): Dunnstral, Emperor flippyNips, notscience, Klick
geraintm (3): UnaBombaH, Galron, popopopopopopo
Galron (2): Bellaphant, Hoopla

So town, unclipped, town, town
V unclipped, town, town

A few votes after is this wagon.
geraintm (5): UnaBombaH, Galron, popopopopopopo, Hoopla, bob3141
bob3141 (2): Emperor flippyNips, notscience
Bellaphant (2): Dunnstral, Klick

This is that wagon that hoops declares really good and Towny on Gera. Unflipped, town, town, scum, unflipped.
Hoops saying this was red flaggy at the time and should still be a red flag.

This is also helping to concern me about bob. Go and look at all the people we've wagoned in contest to bob, knowing hoops is scum. Its part of why I feel better about Isis - I think her votes come off more genuine, like she's pushing her own thoughts.

[Bellaphant]

Bella care to address why you voted hoopla at teh same time as mentioning two alternative wagons. One of which hoopla was pushing.

And turned out to be the mislynch that happened instead of hoopla day one.

Can you rephrase this? I genuinely don't know what you mean .

[Bellaphant]

I do not understand at least 40% of bob's post and if I asked for similar clarifications whenever they were needed it'd take so much time.

I want to write the slot off as town and just skim

sometimes he makes good points but usually I don't understand him

Day 2 Bella thinks this is scummy but day four Bella is getting used to Isis and just nods..

[Bellaphant]

No, I genuinely like the post.

[Bellaphant]

I am starting to think Isis is just town. She voted hoops before the pressure started (and even though she states she is the reason that wagon took off, which I believe is wrong, I believe she believes that).

I'm concerned that scum want to drag us to lylo together under the assumption we'd just cross vote: for me that isn't the case.

I wish gera would give more opinions and push something. It worries me that the dominant voice is una, who isn't actively pushing a scum read, just lining up lynches and trying to get a compromise lynch today.

Reads: Isis, Gera (NM) one of bob/RFs ( highly doubt it's both) and Una.

NM is someone I just can't read 100% right now.. what was the vote switch about?

[Bellaphant]

VOTE: Hoopla

Hoopla (6): Isis, Klick, Bellaphant, notscience, UnaBombaH, Dunnstral

This is hoops wagon. From my pov - I think it's really odd if this wagon is all town.

So unknown, town town town, unknown, town.

Does scum! Isis randomly vote hoops and stay on all wagon because she can't jump off? Maybe, but the motivation for the vote in the first place isn't really there.

Does Una jump on for bussing credit? More likely.

[Bellaphant]

Some interactions from hoops

I got a weird vibe from Bob and that's ..fine?

how exactly?

Soft defending bob

on tone, i like bellaphant for town, and will be relying on her klick-expertise early in the piece. please keep me posted.

unabombah has continued his fervent energy from last game and is my other top pick for town. i haven't seen enough from notscience yet to extend the invitation.

i like isis' capricious nature, though that's probably a personality thing rather than anything alignment related.

~~

TOWN BLOC FIRST DRAFT

(no scum allowed this time):

hoopla (president)
bellaphant
unabombah

to be continued...

townbloc (+Isis). My inclusion in this was weird at the time, I am not a dominant day one force, but hoops tries to create links to Bella/isis/Una all day.

@una

is notscience scum? i don't want to believe it. i think it would break my heart.

i'm suitably convinced with galron's progression into this game. i was concerned his early game coolness was an act. it turns out he is actually just cool.

UNVOTE:

bella, we might have to jump ship...

Can you spell 'pocket'?

UNVOTE:

UNVOTE: - I locked myself out of my apartment.

town bloc assemble!

is it coincidence? perhaps fate? two important town voices silenced and without a vote; drifting.

meanwhile, a sizzling new wagon opens up?

if this isn't fate, then i don't know what is.

Hoops trying to create a tie between my slot, Una and her

in the interest of working my way back into the game, i am going to do something shocking.

my intuition tells me i may have been wrong on klick - especially upon seeing porken's entry into the game. given i was reading bella as town in relationship to klick's scumminess, i have come to believe i was actually reading them backwards.

VOTE: bella

one of the lemonade-sipping scumbuckets.

more to come

...

one of Bella or klick must be scum.

Announcement: Bellaphant is on V/LA until 21/7/2020 12:00:00 GMT+0.

quick, lets get her while she's away!

Does scum do this to a scum buddy? Why?

is it possible i have been wrong yet again with my d1 town bloc declarations?

i bravely called una and bella unequivocally town and wrote them off. now they are both starting to seep into the forefront of my mind. no wonder mafia didn't kill me last night, when i have been such a loyal ally.

Una and Bella again.

another post in which i reevaluate my reads.

after reading geraintm's posts on d2, i think he may actually be town. his looking for popo-related connections appears earnest, and when i reflect on why i thought he was scum in the first place... i believe those feelings were inadequate. i was too heavily relying on early-wagon science (the first wagon-pivot after the RVS wagon often being scum). i had this idea in my head, and wasn't really reading his posts as closely as i should.

based on the way the back half of yesterday went, i believe all our major wagons were town.

scum really were sitting back sipping lemonade it seems.

bella/notscience/una is probably where i'm looking today, and i need to reevaluate isis. i believe i liked her attempts of reading me yesterday, citing a nice balance of paranoia that was nuanced and hard to fake - but i believe her paranoia has tipped over into being uncritically expressed as fact now.

lazy or suspicious?

tbc...

Bella and Una -and- not science. The possibility of all three being town seems low.. plus more psuedo science about wagons being all town..

hmm, it seems the tides have turned and it looks like a bella vs. sujimichi battle.

bella is back and has found her voice.

sujimichi's hilarity is slowly waning. thanks for the memories.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: sujimichi

We could vote suji. Or Bella. I've heard that before recently....


My point is, all game hoops made these weird three way connections between me and Una. Either she's : scum and all three of us are scum and hoops is really bad at scum : scum and both of us are town and hoops is really good at pocketing or scum and only one of us is town and the other is the tactic of hard town reading your scum buddy.

[Bellaphant]

Hoopla (6): Isis, Klick, Bellaphant, notscience, UnaBombaH, Dunnstral

This is hoops wagon.

From my pov

- I think it's really odd if this wagon is all town.

So unknown, town town town, unknown, town.

Exactly, your PoV.
And like I said earlier, from my PoV one/both of you/Isis almost has to be scum with the way things have been rolling.

But instead of you going for Isis today, you have suddenly realized that they are town and I'm more likely to be scum?
Even if i said I'm not voting you today, and have been working on what Isis wants all day?
I'm honestly not following your train of thought here at all.

If you look at those wagons, though, like I've been doing, it's really hard to see Isis as scum - look at that hoopla wagon, read who's reasons work on that wagon. .I don't want to town read Isis, but her play doesn't make sense as scum.

I'm scum reading you because of the hoopla flip and the interactions I just dived for. Behaving as if my reads changed over night with no info is weird. I'm also scum reading you because instead of actually pushing scum,....you know what, I said this already. Find scum, stop lining up lynches, and then we'll think about my read on you..

[Bellaphant]

If I'm scum with Isis we just vote RFs here, why would I be bothering to dive in hoops' iso or do wagon analysis?

P-edit? What? I'm trying to make town think here, Una, not dictate the game state. .

You can't see all my quotes and say I'm making up connections. Try and find them for other people.

Why would I, as scum, point them out?

[Bellaphant]

You seem quite cross about me re-assesing the game state one day before potential lylo

[Bellaphant]

'if RFA flips green, lynch Isis, if red, lynch Bella' - Una
'im not lining up lynches' - also Una

[Bellaphant]

I'm saying it was a chip, though. I don't understand why you are saying we are disagreeing?

I'm really not trying to misrep you. I just don't understand why me having second thoughts is this much of an issue for you.

You seemed really comfy before. And uncomfy now. That feels backwards to me in terms of town wanting a win.

P-edit. I've said go back and find other interpretations. I didn't say it was everything. Its the things that stuck out to me.

[Bellaphant]

Tbf, Una, if I was scum I'd be sitting back here..I think just writing the 'wild cards' as town also isn't optimal play.


The game feels really uncertain right now - im nervous because I'm town and I want to win. We've quick hammered town day 2/3 days so far...

[Bellaphant]

Hoops being a mastermind is what worries me.

Didn't notice you were a euro, same, night.

[Bellaphant]

Don't say you hadn't considered what like..a town me and town Isis and scum anyone does at lylo.

If your town I don't know hie you get to lylo. I think you said even here you were surprised not to be nk.this thought progresses but I'm sleepy.

I want others opinions. And for bob to come back and make sense

[Bellaphant]

To be fair I specifically asked Una about his exile order, so it would be natural that he would respond with a lineup?

That's fair, but I feel like noone is engaging with my secondary point here - it doesn't seem like Una really wants to elim those slots because of anything Scummy/isn't making a push, is just kind of like 'yeah, we can just elim these people'.

In regards to suji, I'm not 100% sold on the alingments of either bob or suji, but I think it's t v s in some way.

Bob's contributiona to the thread is minimal, and when he does bring something up it's kind of nonsense/isn't really engaging with the thread around him. Wagon analysis feels like it condemns him and I'm bothered that noone else seems to be concerned that we keep eliming Bob's counter wagons which flip town. People have said different things about him playing to his town meta

Replacement hasn't done a huge amount, but I liked their bob push. There are very occasional flashes of towniness, but I'm aware that their push on bob I like 90% of why I don't want them elimed.

If it's not you (and I really want Una to engage with the possibility that it isn't me -or- you and look at some of the wagons again, if he's town) then I feel it has to be one of bob/RFs and one of NM/Gera. And that doesn't quite feel like the solve

That's a lot of words to say RFs isn't in my town reads (he's town if and only if bob flips scum) but I want a wider conversation first.

[Bellaphant]

We are on 2000 posts and RFs, bob, NM and Gera have less than 400 posts between them. Its really hard to read that.

@bob, I asked you to reword that question to me, when you are back.

[Bellaphant]

If it's not you (and I really want Una to engage with the possibility that it isn't me -or- you and look at some of the wagons again, if he's town) then I feel it has to be one of bob/RFs and one of NM/Gera. And that doesn't quite feel like the solve

I'm creeped out by you building a scumpool that is "everybody"
The only person not listed is Una who you are also scumreading

That isn't what I said or meant - but you seem a lot more confident in your read on fhe low content slots than I am.

I kind of agree with your posts on this page tho, I just wish you'd actually talk me through your thoughts on replacement and Bob

[Bellaphant]

Yeah, I made the t v s point earlier, but I was super convinced it was bob. But I'm getting less sure. How does hoops flipping help the Bob read, coz it made it a little worse for me?

[Bellaphant]

?? I'm not dismissing you, I didn't understand your question. I told you that, I asked you to reword it. Twice. I want to answer you and talk to you. I made your point about wagons being spread after me at the time - go look! I say it, then hoops says it, then ns reacts badly and I ask him why he reacts to hoops and not.me and he tells me he's less worried about it when I say it. I literally make your point. So...why would scum!bella make the point you are now making?
I've also rehashed this very conversation today!

Same with my wall- ok, I can give you there's a defense in there. But I didn't feel majorly pressured before making it - so why does scum! Bella drag though hoops' iso to talk about something that isn't in the public convo?

To answer your questions : I didn't think hoops/popo was s /s and I don't know why you think I, or anyone, did? Hoops' alingment couldn't be confirmed until day three if anything, and we needed day one to end. It was a low content slot and early lynches give info later.

Follow up - seven people voted popo, why are you just asking me?

Re; why is it hard to read stuff that isn't there...i find it hard to make content where there isn't. I'm not sure anyone in good faith says they have better understanding of someone's thoughts in 50 posts than in 200, spread over many days.

I don't think Isis/Gera is scum scum and again, I don't know why that's you are asking, when I've been yelling all day that I think I was wrong in Isis and she's town. I can't tell you why hoops didn't join my wagon, I'm not in that PT.

[Bellaphant]

Yeah. This is also what happened yesterday - we had three wagons at 2 votes for a long time after the...bob (or hoop) wagon fell apart.

It does make me wonder if my vote is wrong, if I'm today's bob.

But I think replacement is town and peppe haven't really explained galron as a vote..I don't hate it, they are bang in the middle of my reads list, but I'd want those voting there to explain why.

Just to be clear - if the four choices are me, galron, bob or replacement - my preferences are bob/galron. Replacement is town (the above post is really town). Plus, the wagon on replacement is sketchy af.

I've asked a few times for people who are tr-ing Bob to explain why.

Also, considering how little posting there has been in the last day or so (like, the last three pages 20% of the posting has come from Me, which is just weird/unusual) it makes me think scum is fine with these wagons...

Can you explain more why you think this game state means town/town wagons?

This is ns responding to something that hoops said, when I said a few posts above something very similar - why did you only pick it up from her?

I’m not as worried about your throwaway comments as I am hoops

Why? You were voting me for most of the day ...

I'm not quite sure what bob is arguing? Something about wagons? I think he made the point I made about stagnant wagons yesterday, but is reframing it as new? (I said it, hoops said it, ns reacted against hoops saying it and now bob is presenting it as new and interesting?) This is kind of what happened with his ns argument - I couldn't tell that hed actually read and processed anything around his own 'push'.

Una, I just feel like 'lets lynch Bella' is lazy content right now. I said to you yesterday you've kind of run out of people to scum read and you didn't really respond then either, apart from to soft defend bob.

@bob, just FYI. Here are my posts about the wagons after .me. you seem to scum reading me for a thing I literally bought to the thread for discussion. Again; scum Bella does this because?

[Bellaphant]

Using the logic of 'why would scum take X particular Stance now' v ''why would town',I guess I have to ask myself why does scum.bob argue counter wagons to town are scum when he was one. A lot.

I can't think of an obvious answer. Ffs

[Bellaphant]

Id rather rfs here.

[Bellaphant]

..which is why I'm not laying down a vote.
It's not that I'm afraid of scum quickly piling on and throwing the game.
It's because I don't currently trust the rest of the town enough to NOT pile on.

Id rather rfs here.

Vote him then

My thoughts exactly.

Want to give some not-sarcastic reads N_M?

Also - this vote from me was a reaction-test towards anyone potentially hammering with wonky reasoning, or RfS/gera unvoting the same way "in fear of a quickhammer"

UNVOTE:

I think N_M is on the townier side of my reads still, but bella just keeps getting worse.

???

[Bellaphant]

Bella, why are you framing it as one of me or Bob have to be scum? What exactly in our interactions makes you think that? As I see it, in that 1v1, Bob was either scum intentionally misconstruing and representing points to give himself a better look in the argument, OR he's town who genuinely couldn't see what I was saying. Given Isis's meta on him, I certainly haven't ruled out the latter.

It kinda looks like you're lining up a Replacement for Sujimichi into Bob lunch if I do go today - but I don't see the SvT reasoning.

Because a lot of your content is about each other. So for me, that's how it feels.

[Bellaphant]

I kind of want to see what happens if I do this now:

VOTE: Not_Mafia <---- L-1

Should've added this.

[Bellaphant]

Bella and N_M are still voting for me btw.
N_M without any reasoning - most likely just trolololol-OMGUS
Bella with the reasoning of "having second thoughts"(??) about my slot, and then whatever Hoopla-based crap they came up with.

e.

See, I really want to read some of your more recent posting as town. But then, instead of talking to me properly about the hoops thing, you just throw shade. Why would scum!Bella have done the iso dig? To frame you? Why would scum!Bella go after the loudest voice in the group for an elim that people aren't biting on? Surely if you are town, there's the possibility we can solve together.

I hope bob comes back and actually engages with me, rather than just yelling.

[Bellaphant]

VOTE: rfs

You really think you are making it to lylo, Una?

[Bellaphant]

I'm just really frustrated

[Bellaphant]

Wanna talk about those votes, NM?

[Bellaphant]

What do you mean "so apparently RfS then", who do you actually want to flip, Una? Earlier you were saying you wanted to wreck me into someone else tomorrow, but now you're acting like "oh, I guess we're going for this, whatever" as if you didn't want it in the first place.

I feel like I've said variants of this a lot today. And yesterday.

[Bellaphant]

I've only played with them when they have been town and their posting hasn't been much different. Does anyone have scum! Meta on him? I had him in my reads list in brackets because fucked if I know, but it's a gut thing.

I don't think he flings his vote around this much as scum.

P-edit I'm townreading Gera for making the same (wrong) points about people's votes. Again and again.


And again.

[Bellaphant]

UNVOTE:

[Bellaphant]

Do you mean Gera there?

[Bellaphant]

I mean he also voted, unvoted and voted Una. I couldn't tell you how NM reads me this second, he started today voting me as well but was also the only one to follow me on Una.

Its like I said, I'm not sure scum NM is this flingy with his vote..

@bob , hoops had nothing to do with my popo read. Day one there was still a small chance hoops was town, so I wasn't associative hunting - I'm only really confident in them after a flip, which is why my reads shifted night 3. Popo was a lurker and day one was too long, plus (I may be remembering wrong) they'd interacted with klick (?) Weirdly.

[Bellaphant]

The test seems silly and it seems like something scum!una would be doing

Not Mafia are you still willing to vote Replacement because I really think that's the best choice here

You could vote with him. Especially if you are going to say things like that.

[Bellaphant]

VOTE: una

E-1.

I'm also in favour of a mass claim today, rather than tomorrow I think. Thoughts?

[Bellaphant]

And just to be frank - I am not going to get any friendly visits from anyone this game.
Even trying would be a waste.
I keep my door closed tight.

.

Interesting.

Can we lynch this? I'll say pretty please to anyone.

[Bellaphant]

At this point RFs and Gera either need to elim me, or Una.
Una will lynch basically anyone. He only town reads bob. Like...can we just get this done? I will elim myself tomorrow if I'm wrong.

[Bellaphant]

...noones posted In a day. Scum are loving this.

I'm the only one making a concerted effort to get my read elimed and in scummy for it?

Isis, we'd have new Info after the flip.
Gera, I don't feel pushed by you. If that's intent, fine. I'd like you to consider that your reads are basically based on 'people voting is scummy', and reconsider using the rest of the Info we have. However , if that's Intent, let me know.

Bob, what possible sense does my play today make as scum? Scum would just elim a lurker here, not go affer one of the strongest players.

Una, that's a lovely explanation of how I've mis-reppes your post. It would be better if your soft reflected that in any way.

[Bellaphant]

He didn't. He claimed something shiny that didn't work. which doesn't match the aesthetic he claimed..but it's my fault for misrepping him.

[Bellaphant]

I'm just VT.
Isis, at least you make sense. This day phase needs to end and people need to seriously reconsider when I flip. Maybe dead Bella will have better luck.

[Bellaphant]

...even I could see that there's an 'if' in Isis's. But Una definitely isn't ready to jump to call anyone scum. Oh nope.

Would it help if I literally hit my head on This wall?

[Bellaphant]

Una, you are still my favourite thing about this game..sorry I found you out, it was more fun in your pocket.

[Bellaphant]

My ability to strong tr not mafia from shit posts abd random votes continues!