Mini Normal 2154 - Endgame

[Psyche]

lol

[Psyche]

alas. i've only posted one word and i've already been insulted. woe is moe. VOTE: redtea

[Psyche]

truth seems sincere if a little...confused

[Psyche]

i like nash. conscientious

[Psyche]

VOTE: Gypyx

[Psyche]

do you think truth is scummy?

[Psyche]

very odd, very very odd

[Psyche]

why is that

[Psyche]

i think it's pretty likely that truth is town

[Psyche]

imo he's already more or less sorted, at least relative to other people playing

[Psyche]

seems a pretty straightforward player by nature. can't find an interpretation of these posts that squares w/ a scum win conditon, especially in light of the account's meta. your suspicion by comparison seems hard to interpret. suppose the player's lying about where they played mafia: what does their choice to tell that lie have to do with their alignment? i see that the behavior'a odd, but i don't see anyone drawing connections between the slot's odd behavior and the slot's win condition.

[Psyche]

what i see is a player who at least in the context of our site meta is lowkey bad at this (maybe they'll improve), and has been recently traumatized by an experience (mistakes in a previous game) that made this kind of obvious even to them.

still lowkey bad and now w/ heightened fear of another big failure, they decided to make their biggest mistake from the last game impossible by claiming VT in this game in their first post - even though that's also a bad play.

this anxiety but inability to see the bigger picture about their gameplay issues also helps explain potential (but imo unlikely) exaggerations about their overall gameplay experience: it cuts off another potential attack on their pride

[Psyche]

what i see is a player who at least in the context of our site meta is lowkey bad at this (maybe they'll improve), and has been recently traumatized by an experience (mistakes in a previous game) that made this kind of obvious even to them.

What is your evidence of this if I might ask?

uh just truth's posts here, and posts about their last game. can't say i've looked at the referenced game yet.

[Psyche]

Psyche, do you have any non-truth related thoughts?

not yet tbh

[Psyche]

For all of you who find truths posts so far deeply jarring, I suggest you look at one of his other normals on here because he somehow made it alive for several days and there’s a lot of very puzzling things about how he played that game

Not going to go through this work, why not just tell us what happened lol?

no i mean you really really really should go through his iso in that game because nothing i can say here would even come remotely close to conveying just how outstandingly bizarre that game was

what i can tell you is that his behavior this game so far is a good indicator of what you'll see in the other thread

wasn't truth town in that game? if so, why did you vote for him here if his posts here are similar to his posts there?

felt like it

That's actually a way better answer than I was expecting, thanks.

You’re welcome

were you expecting me to flame you or what

just as a side note osuka has an interesting style reflected here and in the rest of his iso that seems simultaneously self-conscious (really attentive to how his posts appear) and irreverent (apathetic about coming off as coarse). strikes me as a conflict, potentially even a little disingenuous, but could easily prove innocuous.

[Psyche]

VOTE: osuka

213 seems an odd response given that he's developed more specific/coherent negative reads on walter and bugspray since his truth vote. early votes by default are baseless and ambiguous but it's suspicious that osuka's complacent about keeping that way given that even in his view he has other options.

[Psyche]

what's supposed to be the townslip? voting lickety?

[Psyche]

yeah no that's way too easy for scum to fake to be called a townslip

[Psyche]

or yeah to not fake and just do organically

[Psyche]

yeah no that's way too easy for scum to fake to be called a townslip

or yeah to not fake and just do organically

i get nervous vibes from this

nervous me or nervous you?

[Psyche]

VOTE: osuka

213 seems an odd response given that he's developed more specific/coherent negative reads on walter and bugspray since his truth vote. early votes by default are baseless and ambiguous but it's suspicious that osuka's complacent about keeping that way given that even in his view he has other options.

omegalul

are you really trying to tell me what my reads are? my hungover brain balks at the thought of having to come up with words to describe just how a complete dumpster fire piece of shit this post is

no i would have used the second rather than the third person if i were trying to tell you what your reads are. i'm not trying to convince you to self-vote, after all.

[Psyche]

not saying i disagree but i really dont feel the same way.

also what a funny sentence

[Psyche]

yeah no that's way too easy for scum to fake to be called a townslip

or yeah to not fake and just do organically

i get nervous vibes from this

nervous me or nervous you?

what the fuck kinda question is this

i wasn't sure who they were calling nervous so i asked them to clarify will you chill out

[Psyche]

VOTE: psyche I agree he's fucking weird in a scum way

can you try going into a little detail

[Psyche]

VOTE: osuka

213 seems an odd response given that he's developed more specific/coherent negative reads on walter and bugspray since his truth vote. early votes by default are baseless and ambiguous but it's suspicious that osuka's complacent about keeping that way given that even in his view he has other options.

omegalul

are you really trying to tell me what my reads are? my hungover brain balks at the thought of having to come up with words to describe just how a complete dumpster fire piece of shit this post is

no i would have used the second rather than the third person if i were trying to tell you what your reads are. i'm not trying to convince you to self-vote, after all.

put it this way:

he's developed more specific/coherent negative reads on walter and bugspray since his truth vote

. early votes by default are baseless and ambiguous but it's suspicious that osuka's complacent about keeping that way given that

even in his view he has other options

.

emphasis mine.

the bolded text is truly honestly disgusting and does not come from town. You're trying to spin a single sentence i posted for each slot and trying to push me based off of the fact that I said "walter's post rubs me off wrong" so therefore I must think he's scum. That's dogshit

to be completely clear: if i think someone is scum, i'll say it. and right now, i think you're scum.
VOTE: psyche

this just seems like omgus. it's overly reductive, too. not much in it that i can actually appreciate. i still like my vote.

[Psyche]

the stuff you wrote about walter and bugspray were indeed just inconsequential one-liners, like you say in 244
however, that's more than what you've offered justifying your truth vote! indeed, when asked, you even explicitly aver that your truth vote was entirely irrational.
in that context, i'm allowed to wonder why you only left it by page 10 when someone started pressuring you over it

[Psyche]

Another reason I'm voting osuka is that his posting style also seems unnatural, and unlike bugspray who can only call me nervous or weird w/o any further explanation, I can be more specific about why I find his posts that way.

His early posting seems simultaneously irreverent and self-conscious, a conflict that comes off as a bit inauthentic. Posts 105, 109, 139 seem like the best examples of this. His rather hyperbolic reaction to my case against him also fits in the category. On the one hand, he's very attentive to how his posts come off. He pulls a youtube video and large bold font to comment on off-hand oneliner calling his posts "frustrated". He's deeply curious what response LicketyQuickety expected to his question. He wants to know what LQ thinks of his readiness to BS. And But on the other hand, his style and tone are irreverent. Across his whole iso he posts in terse one-liners w/ little concern for grammar/punctuation, and is willing to use really vulgar, hyperbolic language to describe people's posts.

The conflict in all this is that this baseline disrespect for others and the stuff they take seriously doesn't fit well with the co-occuring pattern of spending a lot of time/energy reacting to and interrogating others' idea of him.

There are other potential explanations for these patterns - for example, narcissism. An excessive need for admiration, disregard for others' feelings, an inability to handle criticism, and so on are par for the course when it comes to narcissists and cleanly explains the conflicts I'm picking up on. But given that we're only at page 11, I'm exploring the hypothesis that a situational mediator explains the conflict: osuka's win condition especially requires that he manage our impressions of him, but he doesn't want us to catch that. We'll see which pans out.

[Psyche]

hat make sense or do i have to explain again?

i understand it. i just think it's baseless and wrong.

[Psyche]

people often give me shit for voteparking at the beginning of the game (like you did) but i find that throwing the vote around for no good reason actually yields worse results so i'm willing to take flak for it. especially since sometimes you can get valuable insights into some scumfuck slots :)

You made a vote with no basis, found opportunities to make votes w/ some basis, and decided against doing it. Imo it's because you didn't really care, not because you've discovered that moving votes has worse outcomes somehow. Even now, you've made not one post all game characterizing anything Truth's posted as scummy. Maybe you can explain to me how that sort of "voteparking" helps find and get scum lynched?

[Psyche]

i think my observations about truth were really obvious, not early

[Psyche]

i've already thoroughly explained that...

[Psyche]

Sorry, is fakeclaiming miller mason as town something we can describe in any context as "proficient"?

[Psyche]

id like another VC before I move on

[Psyche]

truth you are hilarious

[Psyche]

think people are overrating my commitment to the osuka push, leading them to either think 1) i have really strong confidence in a case that's middling, or 2) that my more noncommital language re:osuka represents some sort of conflict w/ the rest of my iso.

but the fact is that my osuka push is more about driving substantive content creation than the hope i come back to this thread in a couple hours and find him lynched.

[Psyche]

redtea's wall is interesting enough to merit an answer

Here's some thoughts on Psyche.

Spoiler: Psyche, #249

VOTE: psyche I agree he's fucking weird in a scum way

can you try going into a little detail

No accusation here. No bewilderment. No analysis. No nothing.
bugspray is voting Psyche at this moment.
Is he trying to seem rational/townie in comparison to bugspray? Idk, but he doesn't follow up on it when bugspray doesn't respond. Doesn't try to get further explanation, or point anything out about it or bugspray

When you started this comment, I was unsure whether you were talking about me or about bugspray. Anyway, when I made the quoted post, I was hoping to get a response that might be analyzed later or at minimum establish in the record bugspray's unwillingness to provide explanations for his stances. Being terse with my question kept it open-ended, avoiding guiding bugspray's response. However, and this is really important, my attention was focused on osuka and not so much on interrogating bugspray at the time. For those two reasons - my style of investigation on the one hand and overall inattention on the other - my post was formatted the way it was.

On the topic of #213...

Spoiler: Psyche, #210

For all of you who find truths posts so far deeply jarring, I suggest you look at one of his other normals on here because he somehow made it alive for several days and there’s a lot of very puzzling things about how he played that game

Not going to go through this work, why not just tell us what happened lol?

no i mean you really really really should go through his iso in that game because nothing i can say here would even come remotely close to conveying just how outstandingly bizarre that game was

what i can tell you is that his behavior this game so far is a good indicator of what you'll see in the other thread

wasn't truth town in that game? if so, why did you vote for him here if his posts here are similar to his posts there?

felt like it

That's actually a way better answer than I was expecting, thanks.

You’re welcome

were you expecting me to flame you or what

just as a side note osuka has an interesting style reflected here and in the rest of his iso that seems simultaneously self-conscious (really attentive to how his posts appear) and irreverent (apathetic about coming off as coarse). strikes me as a conflict, potentially even a little disingenuous, but could easily prove innocuous.

"potentially even a little disingenuous,

could easily prove innocuous

." Looks like a red flag to me. Where's the pressure? Sure, he does vote for osuka.

Later.

But this disclaimer only makes it all the easier to retract it.
I'd hazard to say he deliberately put off his vote so it wouldn't seem contradictory to include his statements and a vote in the same post. Instead he just separates it by (1) response from osuka.
I do agree with Psyche's evaluation of osuka's posts being "self-conscious". Whereas I would've pushed based on that, Psyche didn't. Which is. A choice, I guess. But again, Psyche deliberately softened it.
On the other hand, I agree with osuka's

Yeah, I didn't want to overstate my reaction to my assessment of osuka's posts. Like I've explained elsewhere, I don't think the self-consciousness/irreverent conflict in osuka is necessarily scummy, just kind of pingy. I hadn't decided yet in post 210 whether I wanted to put pressure on osuka yet: the observation of the conflict, though, explains my attention to osuka in further posts. Also, again, I wanted to keep my question at the beginning of the post open-ended. If I were too aggressive in my follow-up comment, he might have given me a more guarded answer than "idk the vote has no basis at all" that pinged me as so scummy.

Spoiler: Psyche #250

VOTE: osuka

213 seems an odd response given that he's developed more specific/coherent negative reads on walter and bugspray since his truth vote. early votes by default are baseless and ambiguous but it's suspicious that osuka's complacent about keeping that way given that even in his view he has other options.

omegalul

are you really trying to tell me what my reads are? my hungover brain balks at the thought of having to come up with words to describe just how a complete dumpster fire piece of shit this post is

no i would have used the second rather than the third person if i were trying to tell you what your reads are. i'm not trying to convince you to self-vote, after all.

put it this way:

he's developed more specific/coherent negative reads on walter and bugspray since his truth vote

. early votes by default are baseless and ambiguous but it's suspicious that osuka's complacent about keeping that way given that

even in his view he has other options

.

emphasis mine.

the bolded text is truly honestly disgusting and does not come from town. You're trying to spin a single sentence i posted for each slot and trying to push me based off of the fact that I said "walter's post rubs me off wrong" so therefore I must think he's scum. That's dogshit

to be completely clear: if i think someone is scum, i'll say it. and right now, i think you're scum.
VOTE: psyche

this just seems like omgus. it's overly reductive, too. not much in it that i can actually appreciate. i still like my vote.

Now here's the thing. As emotional (deliberately so I think, as I'll touch on later) as osuka's response is, I agree with it to an extent. Psyche's thing here was pretty baseless. The way he's been pushing osuka is half-assed, as shown here. He doesn't address the shit osuka pointed out at all.
It isn't until 35 posts after #215 that he properly evaluates osuka at all, in #255

So that's one half of this theory, right?

Spoiler: osuka #244

VOTE: osuka

213 seems an odd response given that he's developed more specific/coherent negative reads on walter and bugspray since his truth vote. early votes by default are baseless and ambiguous but it's suspicious that osuka's complacent about keeping that way given that even in his view he has other options.

omegalul

are you really trying to tell me what my reads are? my hungover brain balks at the thought of having to come up with words to describe just how a complete dumpster fire piece of shit this post is

no i would have used the second rather than the third person if i were trying to tell you what your reads are. i'm not trying to convince you to self-vote, after all.

put it this way:

he's developed more specific/coherent negative reads on walter and bugspray since his truth vote

. early votes by default are baseless and ambiguous but it's suspicious that osuka's complacent about keeping that way given that

even in his view he has other options

.

emphasis mine.

the bolded text is truly honestly disgusting and does not come from town. You're trying to spin a single sentence i posted for each slot and trying to push me based off of the fact that I said "walter's post rubs me off wrong" so therefore I must think he's scum. That's dogshit

to be completely clear: if i think someone is scum, i'll say it. and right now, i think you're scum.
VOTE: psyche

Now refer to:

Spoiler: osuka #107

hi all
osuka is town
truth can be town for now I guess?

I see frustrated town vides with Osuka for sure, Overki11
LicketySplit, what is your read on Truth so far?

walter's post rubs me off the wrong way for some nondescript reason

but most importantly let me draw attention to this

I see frustrated town vides with Osuka for sure

BRÖTHER

i'm not frustrated yet, i'm literally just fucking around. when i'm annoyed, you'll know

Hi. I have no idea how to read this post in terms of Townie/Scummy. Could you tell me why you wanted to make this post?

felt like it

Now, I've never played with osuka before.
But that looks like a setup to me.

Not sure what you're trying to say in these last two comments. But as for the first, I just disagree with you. My case was not baseless, and in fact osuka's response to it was hyperbolic and insubstantial. You're free to disagree, but just like him you've provided no basis for that disagreement.

[Psyche]

How seriously should I be taking these votes on me? Like, to me they seem kind of lazy, pulled out of your asses, but maybe you guys don't feel that way? Should I switch into survival mode?

[Psyche]

The way he's been pushing osuka is half-assed, as shown here. He doesn't address the shit osuka pointed out at all.

what does osuka point out? and are you sure i didn't address it?

[Psyche]

eh nothing else was on

[Psyche]

btw are you the kind of player who just doesn't do much or what

[Psyche]

it seems a straightforward question to me

[Psyche]

how characteristic

[Psyche]

what's not

[Psyche]

i have no idea what you're trying to sayyy

[Psyche]

you guys waste so much time with this oneliner schtick

[Psyche]

im a mix of tipsy and sleep deprived im not trying to be mean sry sry

[Psyche]

faff

[Psyche]

it's really not that hard to just respect a fking pronoun

[Psyche]

trying to force me back to mafblack w that fonting

[Psyche]

trying to force me back to mafblack w that fonting

i think the real question is why would you be using literally anything other than mafblack

i did a literature review and it seems that while dark modes reduce eye strain, light modes are best for readability. and the reason dark modes are so good for readability is that they have less luminance — emitted light intensity. one study found that it's possible to control the luminance of a light mode interface such that there's no longer a significant difference in eye strain compared to dark mode, all while maintaining their readability advantage. so i use a browser extension and mafmobile to try simulating this effect by producing a gray mode (darker than mafmobile's default grayness) combining the best of both worlds.

the problem w all this though is that most of the time i'm browsing mafiascum on my phone :(

[Psyche]

i'm very ambivalent about bugspray bc while i can't connect their posts to a scum win condition, they aren't doing much beyond shitposting and specifying a bunch of reads w little explanation. that's pingy in a way, but it can also

easily

be NAI. would probably be easy to explore w/ a meta check?

[Psyche]

VOTE: unvote

ok next step is a big picture review of the gamestate

[Psyche]

bugspray at l-1

[Psyche]

yeah but it was the trigger anyway

[Psyche]

i think it's only been a few hours?

[Psyche]

??? i know that

[Psyche]

??? i know that

Is this the "big picture review of the gamestate"? Or are you just stalking the thread waiting for something to exploit?

im working on it. don't have unlimited time

[Psyche]

??? i know that

lol what a fucking bait

i need to see this slot lynched d1 otherwise what the fuck is town doing

do you really think i'm scum? how sure are you?

[Psyche]

you're not very good at this game imo

[Psyche]

anyway the thought didn't cross my mind that someone might have thought i was unvoting bugspray in that post. a votecount was made just a page ago after all. someone would have to not be reading the thread at all to make that sort of mistake, a mindset not likely to correspond w/ the weighty decision to bring someone to the edge of death. super unlikely.

[Psyche]

supposing you're town, once it's obvious that i'm town i think it's important that you think a lot about what's so wrong about your play patterns. you'll want to tell yourself that it was a one-off thing — it's obviously you're on that track with this language claiming i deserve to be policy lynched. but it's more a systematic pattern in how you play/think. intellectual laziness, basically. if bugspray's town they have it even worse.

[Psyche]

that only raises the question: why the fuck does bugspray being at e-1 make you unvote someone else entirely? that makes no sense whatsoever

i already said why. i wanted to take a step back for a more global review of the gamestate. it doesn't make sense to you bc you're just not thinking very much about it. maybe would help if you typed less and thought more?

[Psyche]

you keep saying my whole story is "full of holes" but you never make the effort to list them. readers are supposed to just guess at what they are. do you even know what they are, exactly?

[Psyche]

VOTE: psyche I agree he's fucking weird in a scum way

can you try going into a little detail

bugspray also never attempted an explanation of his vote for me, not even after being prompted. even if he's town, it just doesn't advance the gamestate to float along like this. and in the end it's an example of the sort of play that got him to L-1. osuka's not been as bad, but it's the same category of lazy bullshit.

[Psyche]

??? i know that

Is this the "big picture review of the gamestate"? Or are you just stalking the thread waiting for something to exploit?

im working on it. don't have unlimited time

it takes less effort and time to respond to few lazy posts than to ponder and write a review of an entire gamestate. obviously??

[Psyche]

my problem is in fact that i don't let go of stuff when i should

[Psyche]

maybe you should make one actual post

[Psyche]

so we'll call osuka done; bugspray I'll return to last. starting with looker since he may still be around:

looker's last few posts are odd. in particular: his 413 is a surprisingly incurious move in the context of his other posts.

deadline remains far away and there are several active areas of discussion - why interrupt them? in particular, he's apparently interested in seeing a post i've committed to making (as 396, 410 suggests) and sees me as an object of particular interest for the scarce resources of our PRs (413), and yet instead of waiting or pressing further for it he's encouraging an early hammer? in fact, he's asked for a lot of content lately, with some of those requests not yet fulfilled. does he not really care about them? An additional point of observation is that by asking for a lynch, he's voicing far greater confidence in bugspray's lynch than he's articulated so far. When he voted for bugspray, all he articulated as a motive was an interest in seeing if the player's "oh there's an IC" comment was a scumslip or not. Is that enough for an early lynch?

In sum, 413 makes me wonder if the questions and prompts that litter his iso aren't so much a sincere expression of curiosity as just pretending to be that. It's a very out-of-character post.

[Psyche]

yeah sure sorry

i was gonna say that 416 is your first substantive post in a really long time, but it doesn't even answer the question asked
you're still doing so little. and if you are town and get mislynched, you're gonna blame us, but part of the reason why will be because you just don't do the bare minimum.

[Psyche]

the more i think about it, the more it seems that the reason i haven't felt much affinity for the bugspray wagon is that i've seen so many townies get lynched for not being productive, coherent players. it's not really an alignment-indicative behavior on its own (scum have plenty of interest in being productive/coherent), but for some reason people on mafiascum.net just eat that shit up. everywhere i look in fact i just see half-assed justifications for voting them like what looker's decided is enough to justify a hammer.

maybe when i look closely at bugspray i'll see something stronger than that weaksauce but so far it's just a void why is it just a void

[Psyche]

413 gets even more suspicious if bugspray flips town, as i now suspect will happen given what i've seen against them

[Psyche]

0verki11 has provided a lot of reads but has made no effort to explain them, leaving them mostly useless for town except far into the future when people starting doing VCA. The player's iso also lacks any votes or other substance. I expect a replacement later but if that doesn't happen the top explanation for this pattern gradually gets more suspicious. Definitely not a good candidate for a D1 lynch.

dunn's iso looks comfortable-in-his-own-skin enough that though i also fault it for being overly terse i do find it pretty town-aligned. the basis of this impression is that i see him reasoning w/o really making a big deal about his reasoning. in particular, seeing ghosts of fair, substantive reasons to vote bugspray that at least match my impression of the strength of the case against them. dunn would probably ramp up his contributions if some pressure were put on him, cementing this read on him.

gypyx's also rather comfortable-in-his-own-skin, but more active. his #90 (explaining that redtea defending truth rules out a redtea/truth duo because of how vulnerable truth is to a lynch) is his first interesting post and pings as a sincere attempt at sorting. #143 where he argues against targetting an investigative role at Truth seems even more to suggest that he's deeply considering the ramifications of his town-lean on the player, though I'm not sure if I wholly agree with the reasoning. #143 does have some typos that make it unclear whether he's suggesting 1) Truth not be investigated or 2) Truth's investigation result not be announced; the former would be a bit more suspicious given the content of his observation in #90, but only vaguely. ...Just scrolling through the rest of his posts, Gypyx seems a pretty easy townread; everything he posts seems organic but useful too. His readlist is credible - not in the sense that I agree with it per se, but in the sense that I can see where it's coming from and that it makes sense from the course of Gypyx's iso. Very easy townread overall.

LQ is town. I don't have to read his iso, nice.

Am suspicious of Looker for sure. But only for the reasons I've already listed. I do think I accidentally exaggerated the weakness of his basis for his bugspray vote - he also posted some things about survivalposting. I'm not very impressed by it, because if someone (such as bugspray) disagrees with bugspray's stance on survivalposting, it's not a good bellweather for reads anymore.

Nash is quite null. I'm a little surprised I don't townread it harder. Not much in the iso to talk about though. I disagree pretty decidedly with most of his more substantive posts, and maybe that's why I'm only nullreading instead of townreading, but atm I don't think so.

I've already engaged a lot w/ redtea's material and feel kind of exhausted by it now. Their iso seems the most substantive that I've scrolled through so far, and even while I disagree with their reads and broad interpretation of the game,

Nothing about osuka's reactions to my push on him really increased my confidence in my scumread of him. Its underlying basis still exists, but the alternative explanation for his posts (personality) has enhanced relative probability and I don't have many other options for building on the existing case. Looker seems more suspicious than Osuka atm, but that's not to say that the basis for my looker read feels vastly stronger than the basis for my osuka read did. Lots more investigation to go.

superbowl9's iso looks fine, but its sunny tone might be causing me to townlean on it more than I should. Not a lot there to comment on though; I will look for some sort of line of investigation in the future though.

walter's iso pings me as scummy, but only in an ethereal kind of way. I don't understand people who call arguments "t v s" without specifying who is who; how do reads like that even happen? the iso otherwise has a lot of posts but is quite noncommital. This suggests to me a lack of imagination that I've seen associated w/ floating scum. Otoh scum have a small advantage in the imagination area by being allowed to throw any old idea against the wall and not worry if it's accurate or not. I haven't gotten good at sorting this kind of player yet.

I think I appreciate the case against bugspray more; there's been a lot of rationale behind it that I didn't integrate into a broader whole because each piece wasn't presented as some coherent case. I still don't think it amounts to much, but there's not a lot else to run on either. In the absence of stronger scumsignaling by other players, it makes sense that a lot of people would gravitate toward a player like bugspray. I don't feel confident enough in my townread to oppose their lynch, but I still believe we all should try harder to use our time to generate content to find and lynch someone more positively scummy. In the absence of that, a somewhat PoE-based lynch like bugspray could be something to settle for I guess?

[Psyche]

jesus that post looks long why did i join this game im working on a saturday

[Psyche]

If I were pretending I had strong scumreads on anyone, I'd probably pick walter and looker. But when I think about pushing lynches on those folk, I suspect my will would eventually break.

[Psyche]

looker being v/la always makes him a poor focus for a push. feeling a little lost.

[Psyche]

alright this exhausting. think i'll be your other IC.

[Psyche]

Your reads are wrong. About to prove it.

[Psyche]

Psyche, do you have a reason to do that ?

Figured it would help you guys develop decent reads. Also saves me a lot of trouble.

[Psyche]

the more i think about it, the more it seems that the reason i haven't felt much affinity for the bugspray wagon is that i've seen so many townies get lynched for not being productive, coherent players. it's not really an alignment-indicative behavior on its own (scum have plenty of interest in being productive/coherent), but for some reason people on mafiascum.net just eat that shit up. everywhere i look in fact i just see half-assed justifications for voting them like what looker's decided is enough to justify a hammer.

maybe when i look closely at bugspray i'll see something stronger than that weaksauce but so far it's just a void why is it just a void

There are great reasons to policy elim - or weight negatively - poor yet NAI play.
If a player is lurking, lazy, and just not helpful to town, it can be a good idea to get rid of them earlier in the game so that they don't cause distractions and waste time and energy later on during the game.
Another separate discussion is punishing players for bad play - if poor play isn't viewed as elimable your site gets more and more poor play in its games, overall reducing town EV and the quality of games.
There are exceptions to the rule and obviously you don't want to eliminate town if possible, but to say that poor play is NAI and should thus not be weighted in an evaluation of whether to elim is just incorrect. To say that a site is worse for holding people to a higher standard of play is also not a great opinion.

We should be trying to lynch scum, not town whose playstyles we don't like. Period.

[Psyche]

VOTE: Osuka
If psyche is town then osuak is scum,
I would also be good with truth.

why?

[Psyche]

Eliminating people for reasons besides being scummy is more or less the same thing

[Psyche]

People's reactions to bugspray's claim doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Being a ninja roleblocker doesn't exactly clear you, even if you crumb it. How did the claim affect your actual reads?

[Psyche]

i wanna vote looker but he's gone nothing would come of it what a pain

[Psyche]

Man I should've cleared myself sooner. So much bs that couldve been avoided.

Anyway supposing I just have two choices, I think atm I'd rather lynch bugspray than osuka, as I don't really find the claim all the credible and the sort would help me with looker and other players too.

[Psyche]

gotta wonder why they took so long to claim too but really i guess i'd like a reads list or something from bugs?

[Psyche]

let's do some setup spec
two innocent childs and a ninja roleblocker
if that's reality, what is the mod thinking?

[Psyche]

any coherent themes? like are his games more role madnessy or like concept pieces?

[Psyche]

does he do throw-offy roles like include a ninja but not a tracker?

[Psyche]

also ready to hammer before deadline i suppose

[Psyche]

pls chkflip no

[Psyche]

i used to play mafia on a forum for the yugioh trading card game so i do get it, this idea that forcing someone into a role claim constrains their later options. truth is just not weighting the value of this tiny, tiny constraint against the disvalue of a potential townie's role being outed

[Psyche]

hehehe lets lynch pingpong guy tomrrow