Open 83 - Polygamist Mafia (Game over!) before 628

[armlx]

Do I count as not Battle Mage?

Rereading, but not today.

[armlx]

Adel, I'll one up you on that and give you a full spectrum of people/pairings, categorized into 5 groups by scumminess (Scummy, possible scum, neutral, leaning town, and prob/definitely town).

[armlx]

actually, part of the trick depends upon you distilling your opinion down to three names. The rest would be gravy, but please make your three choice distinct from the rest.

Fair nuff.

[armlx]

I don't see why it isn't relevant. I think we should have claimed pairs at the start of the game (I haven't reread, so I don't know if this happened).

[armlx]

Ok, so current thoughts after first 7 pages (tired, don't want to forget stuff).

Chenhsi's claim initiative seems town to me.

even if you end up being a townie, you deserve to die for a stunt like that...

Do not like this one bit (page 5, re: gimbo), as well as his vote hop to chelseafan and his original vote on gimbo.

Current listings:

Scum:
Knight

Null:
Those not listed yet

Town:
Chenhsi
Chelseafan
SpyreX

[armlx]

actually, I say we take out spyrex. i personally think there's a good chance he's mafia, and even if he isn't, gimbo surely will be.

Lynch set up from Knight.

FS seems town in this game based on comparison with his completed game as town and ongoing stuffs.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but pairs are:

Me/Skruffs
adel/Spyre
fl/ShyGuy
Harvey/Zeek
FS/Namless?

Money atm is on Fl/Shyguy/Harvey/Zeek scum, only 11 pages in tho.

[armlx]

The Zeek/Harvey argument on 13 is very odd for two people who are supposed to know each other is town.mb/scummy/stretching, esp. since I know Chelseafan had issues and had to

chen's response to being wagoned was dumb, but I can't say I didn't expect it from him regardless of alignment.

I like how Zeek says he suspects Knight/fl then just attacks on his other scum pairing.

Adel's list thing is odd, but expected from her.

I'm going to have to read page 21 at least once more. I think its pretty important to alignments/connections.

570 sounds like a lot of stretching from Shy Guy.

599: Distancing factor... orly? Adel's 600 sums up my feelings on this well.

658: Trying to apply reasoning to replacements is dube replaced in one of my games as well which makes it completely null.

So, my scum listing stands (fl/shy guy/Zeek/Harvey). Most confident ShyGuy/fl is scum, small chance of FS/nameless beign scum IMO, but not large enough I wouldn't be comfortable voting Zeek/Harvey over Fl/ShyGuy to ensure a lynch on one of the 2 "groups".

As for most town, I would have to say Adel/SpyreX by far.

[armlx]

It also seems that you have no reason at all to be suspicious of my partner, that you've stated. Is this correct?

fl's play has been neutral at best.

-Knight was frustrated with Gimbo's play.
-Knight thought Spryex and Gimbo were both suspicious and thought that lynching both of them was not a bad idea.
-I tried to make cases day 2 about day 1 actions while many other players either sat back and did nothing or tried to attack cases being made day 2.

I like how you twist my arguments to make them look like me attacking you for being pro-town here.

I read over chenhsi and tried to find where he pioneered mass claiming and pushed for it strongly, and couldn't

I suggest you read the part where he auto-claimed in response to Gimbo pushing the movement.

Skruffs, would you be willing to vote Shy Guy over Adel?

[armlx]

EBWODP: I also suggest that those who think chenhsi's behavior in response to attack was scummy read some of his other games and see if you still agree.

[armlx]

That's a false dichotomy and you know it. Give him some real options.

It is? Have you read his last post?

[armlx]

What makes you say this? You don't think that there is a single town-tell she's given off all game? Neutral is the best possible evaluation you can make of her?

Or are there some scum tells that balance out town tells? If so, what are they perchance?

Nothing majorly pro-town + flip/flop on Gimbo + odd FoS on Zeek that was not followed up on, which contrasts the one of Nameless (notice how I think Zeek is scum too).

Well, when I said that, I asked if I was making a significant miscategorization. You haven't responded in the affirmative, just made this snarky little remark.

I don't think I am twisting your arguments, and honestly it sure did look like you were attacking me for being pro-town.

If you were not and there is some logic that I missed, I would like to be enlightened, so I am not misled into thinking you are scum trying to push a crap-logic filled case on me. If I am able to see such logic, I'd be able to reason with you and try and convince you that you are wrong. As it is, though, it seems to me there is nothing I can argue against; again to use your words, it seems you are attacking me for being pro-town.

1. Being frustrated with someone's actions does not mean you lynch them regardless of alignment as Knight was implying.

2. Being suspicious of two people does not mean you say "We lynch x then y".

3. First of all, just because your case was based on D1 actions doesn't mean it is a valid one. You are ascribing lying, a term that often brings about quick lynches, to a scenario where it at best vaguely applies, and saying that because someone didn't vote someone they attacked it is scummy. Your "case" was reaching at best.

[armlx]

Okay. Why does auto-claiming as soon as someone brings it up seem like a town move to you?

Scum are always more likely to delay on a claim. Claiming has a tendancy to out scum really fast.

I am loathe to meta-game, and certainly will not put the effort forward to read through all of chenhsi's games to clear him of being scum. If you wish to direct me to some specific posts you'd like me to read, I'd be willing to. I am not willing to 'go metagame chenhsi'.

The one I'm thinking of is ongoing.

[armlx]

Having two, three or even four votes on somebody for a length of time doesn't "clear" them.

I assume you mean unclear them, but I agree. Especially with 4, as by then scum could easily be on the wagon.

[armlx]

You made the FoS then.... I see no follow up.

[armlx]

It makes more sense if you see their alignments as likely correlated in some way. In this game, such statements have the potential to make a lot of sense. However, again I haven't read Knight so I don't know the context, and I agree that his play was unimpressive. If my reading his play in depth and offer whatever explanation I can give for his actions would be of great use, I'd be willing to do so.

I see no posts by knight that make me feel that he thought if Gimbo was town, then SpyreX had to be scum, merely that accusation.

Why was my case reaching? Why was it unreasonable to accuse Adel of lying and see her response? Could you describe in more detail the substantive problems of my case?

It was unreasonable to describe her actions as lying, not only given the implications of ascribing lying to a situation, but given Adel's play style as well.

[armlx]

think from his play in this game though, it is not unfair to say he is a relatively inexperienced player, who potentially thought that play made sense or didn't think it through.

This is not an excuse.

you've also not addressed how in part I was attempting to get a reaction and judge it.

When someone makes a bogus case, I never buy this excuse.

I think your analysis that calling someone a liar will lead to a quick lynch in lylo is very misguided.

I never said quick lynch, but it definitely works to blow minor issues out of proportion.

armlx, do you agree with my analysis about early claiming? Why/why not?

I still think the mafia have more incentive to make the game work in an unpaired fashion.

[armlx]

I'm terribly confused as to why it is not an excuse. You agree that he is an inexperienced player, but claim that this is no excuse for some of his actions being foolish?

Foolishness is excusable, scumminess is not.

How are you not setting up a double standard?

I am proving chenshi's response to attacks was a null tell based on meta, not excusing it on a general basis of being inexperienced.

Again, I must say, I am terribly confused as to why you never "buy" this "excuse". Just a post or two ago you were saying that we should meta-game Adel. By no means consistently, but sometimes, Adel will make bold statements just to get reactions. In fact, it is not unreasonable to say that the statement I am calling lying and you are trying to say was so far from a lie that in fact I am scummy to call it a lie is just such a statement!

Why is it OK for Adel to make statements to get reactions but not for me to? Or do you not never buy it as an excuse, rather you only buy it as an excuse when there is "meta-evidence" that it has been done before? If so, I can guarantee you I've made bold statements to get reactions in the past. If this isn't the reason that it is OK for Adel to make statements to get reactions but not me, I would love to hear it!

Again, you seem terribly close to consciously setting a double standard. How are you not?

If you could point me to where you analyzed these reactions you found outside of the context of your argument, I'll consider it, but I did not see this reaction-response in your posts and as such disbelieve your motives.

"Blows minor issues out of proportion" is not a far cry at all from "brings relevant issues under more scrutiny". Why do you think this was a case of the former and not the latter?

Its a pretty far cry. And I suggest you reread what happened at the end of D1. During that whole time Adel tried to reason a slowing of the Gimbo wagon.

What evidence do you have that I though it was a case of the former and not the latter? I can see how it possibly might be reasonable for you to think it was a minor issue that didn't need examining, but what makes you think I thought it was a minor issue that didn't need examining?

Why does this matter?

Do you think the mafia has an incentive to look more suspicious, or less suspicious? Considering your answer to this question, and the likely inevitability of mass claim, do you think that mafia have incentive to support mass claim, or to oppose it?

They have both. If they can postpone it till day 2 most of the damage has been done. Also, you are falling into the trap of saying that given the choice, scum will act in a pro-town manner that is only mildly harmful to them. The reason scum hunting works is the scum tend to act too overtly in ways that do not follow their optimal play.

[armlx]

And how do you draw the line between chenhsi's actions and Knight's other than that it is convient for you to clear chenhsi? Why, objectively, is chenhsi only foolish and not scummy, but Knight scummy (and not foolish??)?

Where did I say the actions Chenhsi did were not scummy in the abstract? I only said that in the case of Chenhsi, I could show that they were not.

What is the meta of chenhsi pray tell? That he is only concerned with his own survival and willing to divert attention to anyone else besides himself? That "meta" could be figured out from this game as well. Chenhsi's excuse is just as general and no more significant because it comes from meta, and in my opinion less significant.

Its more chenhsi responds in a manner when attacked that doesn't really interact with the attacker's questions. He has a tendency to scramble about saying nothing under pressure.

However, I went back and forth with Adel about both cases (the second is really a natural continuation of the first), and am still trying to engage in dialogue with her.

I do not feel your questions have to do with her reactions to your attack as you are stating now, and are instead a continuation of your logic that was "only to draw reactions".

If I thought it was a significant issue, even if it really was just a minor thing, it means I was acting with every intent of finding scum. If I truly believe it was an important issue, regardless of whether it is or isn't, my thinking that it was is of utmost importance.

Mafia is a game of determining motives. Of course determining my motive in bringing up the case would be important!

I don't agree. Mafia is a game of analyzing actions. If we are to talk about motives, there are infinite ways for any post to have a motive that goes either way, but examining how an action benefits one side or the other gives a clear answer that can then be combined with probability of being accidental to come to a conclusion. As I see it, your action was one that had large payoffs as scum (a case with no basis that looks genuine) and given the thought put into it is hard to be excusable.

Adel's actions near the end of day one are exactly why I find her suspicious. She came up with the very plausible idea that lynching Chelseafan would be good because if he was town it would clear Gimbo, and that Chelseafan was likely scum. She then, however, only spent all of two days pursuing this notion, and the largest opposition was from her partner. I believe that not even everyone had commented on the idea. She then "got frustrated" and hammered Gimbo even though she claims she thought the Chelseafan lynch would have been much better.

How does the "getting frustrated" not fit with arguing against her partner to no effective chage?

This to me reveals that either you: (1) are just trying to justify your statements and don't believe what you are saying, (2) don't understand how powerful and necessary mass claim day 1 is in this setup, (3) think that the mafia would be able to fool the entire town about how powerful and necessary mass claim day 1 is in this setup.

No, I believe that other people in this game were under the impression of number 2 and it was easy for the mafia to agree with them and cause a swing towards no claim.

That said, I am willing to go back and look at those who opposed mass claim D1.

[armlx]

mb/scummy/stretching, esp. since I know Chelseafan had issues and had to

What does this mean? Why is it added to the quote.

[armlx]

mb/scummy/stretching, esp. since I know Chelseafan had issues and had to

Hmm, thats odd. This was part of a completely separate point that somehow got half deleted. Someone (I can't remember who right now), started insinuating CF's replacement was due to being under pressure, and I was saying that is reaching to begin with, especially since I know CF has comp issues and had to replace out of the game I am modding.

[armlx]

Also, with respect to the Zeek/Harvey issue, I reread it and it came across very different. When I was reading the first time I saw the WIFOM thing as almost an accusation and then the turnaround as odd.

[armlx]

BIg post tomorrow.

This is needed.

And your new avatar is insanely good.

[armlx]

None of this has made me feel Zeek isn't scum at all, though.

I can agree here.

[armlx]

Adel, what are your over all thoughts on each other pair?

[armlx]

Also, SpyreX's simul post is win.

[armlx]

skruffs and armix are the only couple I have a solid tell against.

Which tell?

so Shy Guy and FL are my most town-like at this point, which leaves me in a bit of a mess since Shy Guy seems convinced that I am scum, and I'm not able to clear them enough in my mind to really take a crack at the remaining relationship using thier alignment as a "certain town".

How about you just assume they are town as per your trust a person theory for the purposes of one reread?

[armlx]

On meta: I realize Shy Guy, but the similarities seems so shocking to me its obvious.

That's not what he did here -- he diverted attention to anyone else besides himself, quite blatantly.

I'm not seeing that.

Seeing as how absolutely no one, not even my partner, has bought into it, I don't see how this case "looks genuine", and since I still strongly believe in the tells I found on chenhsi, I don't see how it has no basis.

You tried to use a fair understanding of mafia logic to construct it, which is evident. You obviously intended it to look that way. I'm not sure if "looks genuine" is the right phrase for what I am trying to say, but it gets the general point across.

Belief != truth btw.

She reasoned brilliantly that Chelseafan town would prove Gimbo town, and lynched Gimbo anyways.

Have you ever been in that scenario? Where you are trying to explain why someone is town, no one is listening, and the person is such an idiot regardless you aren't even sure their behavior is anything better then null tells?

Why do you disagree with me on my analysis of the mass claim situation?

He is trying to push away from a him-Skruffs pairing with whatever reasoning possible, no matter if it is good or bad, like the "scum wouldn't pair two newbies together" reasoning.

Where did anyone say that?

He also is trying to keep saying that I am scummy even though from my perspective I have refuted to a very reasonable benchmark his arguments.

I'm interested how you can say this, despite your own counter argument of your belief in the case mattering.

[armlx]

BTW, Shy Guy, when the person first suggests the idea then backs someone who agrees with them, how is that buddying?

[armlx]

Shy Guy has a comprehensive meta on me, and if he wanted a mis-lynch I think he would've gotten one on me by now.

Explain more please?

2. If Shy Guy is scum, we're fucked.

Why?

[armlx]

Shy Guy is good, and I don't have anything against him that could hang him, and I doubt that if he is scum I'll ever be able to build a case against him in this game that will stick.

I disagree with this being reasoning to just give up on assuming they aren't scum.

The part where he said "if you think me and Chelseafan are scummy, and Gimbo is also scummy, don't lynch me, just lynch Gimbo" (paraphrasing).

While that is a slight overstatement of his post, I've got nothing to counter that point.

Wait, a post ago you were saying that intent doesn't matter/we can only analyze actions. Now you are saying I used mafia logic to construct it... or that rather, I tried to make it look that way. Are we trying to figure out my motives, or not?

I'm simply saying that if your case was clearly completely devoid at attempts at logic, the fact that it is bad logic could possibly be dismissed.

I'm confused/the point isn't getting across. If it looks genuine, why is it suspicious?

Looks superficially logical is a better descriptor here. Does it make sense now?

Again though, if I believed it was true, I was trying my best to find scum.

But again, belief is impossible to prove.

I think so, in the first game I played on here. It was a rather complicated mini game hosted by Mr. Stoofer. I thought one player was town and kept my save-them vote on them until the end. I was wrong, but I got lynched anyway so it didn't matter. Why do my experiences matter here?

I'm simply trying to see if you understood the scenario, or just had no experience. Trying to defend someone who is only scummy outside of the case of their own stupidity is one of the most frustrating things in mafia.

Because it is so obviously a good idea to do it, and MafiaSSK brought up a link to another game where they did it and town won.

Sure, but there was so much resistance to it early D1 that something must have been going on.

Um, maybe it was Skruffs who said this but one of you said that C+C was implausible because both of them were new.

It was Skruffs, take it up with him. I don't believe that is necessarily true at all.

Belief is another thing. Either you can be convinced my case is good, or that at least I believed it was. I think I've argued pretty persuasively that I believed it was good, and I don't see how you've argued against that except to say that we can't analyze motives...

My point here was that you are calling me out on a case you feel was poor without considering if I believed it was true, despite wanting me to the same to you. And you say I had double standards.

I was under the impression that Spryex had been pushing a case on Zeel/me since before you replaced in...

So your accusation of buddying goes back to me replacing in and running it from the first reread?

[armlx]

Just saying I'm on, but this discussion requires more thought as to how to get my points across then I can give at 4am.

[armlx]

Another vote from Adel without any kind of explanation? Shocked, I am shocked.

Also, if Shy Guy starts overly trusting Adel in the near future I'd be unsurprised to find they were the mafia pair ...

I'm unsure if this is OMGUS or valid.

[armlx]

If it was devoid of all attempts, then its lacking could be dismissed? Why?

The "I'm just an idiot" excuse could apply. If you had realized your error earlier, the "I don't know what I was thinking" excuse could apply. But as you meant your case and fairly strongly followed up on it, neither of those do.

Nothing is possible to prove with absolute certainty. I don't see why belief is any more difficult to prove than other things.

Belief is rooted in your own assumptions of people's actions, not the visible effects of them.

It was frustrating, but I didn't just give up because it was frustrating.

Can you see why someone would though?

No just, the way he brought it up, and then you immediately said "yeah I like Spryex's ideas" (paraphrasing) struck me the wrong way.

Fair nuff. Again, I direct you back to my first posts where I basically said the same thing.

I agree with Adel's analysis of FS's posting patterns, being in one of the aforementioned games.

[armlx]

I think both Adel & Firestarter overreacted about Firestarter.

This is true.

I'm interested in FS. His posting pattern says he is scummy (don't try to pass it off as not lurking, I know the relative # of posts even going back further then your reduced posting time is low), but his actual posts I think indicate he is town to some extent.

Still rather lynch Zeek/Harvey/ShyGuy/FL

[armlx]

Skruffs is being replaced in the invitational, I don't know what that means about his status across the site.

Mod, can you prod/check with Skruffs about his participation in the game?

[armlx]

Just so you know,

I will be away from Thursday till Sunday

.

[armlx]

Have fun. Only 34 pages

You think its funny, until you replace into a 70 page game. I replaced into 3 within a 2 week period, by the last one I just didn't even both reading.

[armlx]

135. I win.

Yeah, that game is nuts.

[armlx]

I'm actually fairly pleased with the result. I'd have expected a townie to claim who his lover was, and you didn't.

WOWIE. Stretch much? I'd expect anyone to go "OMG LOL U SAID 3 I IZ NOT DUMB" like Cyber did.

Cyber's lack of "X is my partner" is irritating however.

Skruffs needs to post that big post.

I don't like how Shy Guy tries to make his last scum group analysis look relevant but its really "Of A, B, C, and D, any of them could be scum".

[armlx]

armlx, you say I am trying to "make it look" relevant. is it not relevant? why?

You make it look like you are coming to a conclusion, when your posts says "Of the other 8 players, any of them could be scum". Pairing them out means nothing.

how the crap am I stretching, when you say that him not claiming is irritating you as well?

Your attack was before the refusal to claim, only in response to the "Nice try brah".

[armlx]

?? I did come to a conclusion. It is you and Adel, or the other four.

And what does that conclusion even mean? Absolutely nothing. You have not said anything that helps anyone figure out who is scum, just made arbitrary pairings amongst everyone that isn't you.

No... my inquiry came before his refusal. People keep assuming this was an attack...

No, your attack based on his response to your inquiry. His refusal came after that.

[armlx]

highlighting/eliminating certain pairings does help eventually deduce the mafia pair

Except he hightlighted EVERYONE as possible scum. I don't see how that is remotely useful.

[armlx]

I think the argument is although he did highlight everyone as scum they've been grouped due to connections he's seen

Yeah, but we could care less about who the pair is if we find one scum group. That's my main focus.

[armlx]

Agreed, but there could be something said for having two groups that are linked more than others.

Then he would be saying "I think A and B are more likely scum because of Connection X". Way different.

[armlx]

Also agreed. :Smile: I think what he said was, really, not helpful in the slightest but the IDEA of it holds merit.

Does that make it better or worse though?

[armlx]

All in all, it was useless to the extent of "Everyone but me could be mafia" so worse, but the idea of "These pairs make more sense" is going to be an avenue we will persue.

I concur, but I don't think giving him credit for the feasible pairings counteracts the former.

Do we have everything we need for the list?

Waiting on Cyber I think.

[armlx]

Tangential post: The word lurch sounds surprisingly tasty.

[armlx]

(shy guy: I will return my vote on Skruffs if you don't get aboard the Cyberbob/Nameless wagon, but I feel pretty confident that this is the one that will lynch scum)

As much as I think Adel is town, this is pretty scummy.

As I have seem to have failed to do so long ago,

Vote Shy Guy

[armlx]

Yeah. All your actions have been scummy. 45 > 3

(45 is just a random number I'm saying to prove the point).

[armlx]

However, armlx keeps making me doubt myself with hyperbole filled posts like "all of your posts are suspicious" and throwing out arbitrary exaggerated numbers like 45 and 3.

I do that a lot. It used to be me saying I'm 100% sure X is town/scum.

[armlx]

armlx, if you do that a lot, and people find you suspicious for it... why keep doing it?

They usually don't.

[armlx]

Spyrex, from the first post.

Cyberbob (Firestarter)
armix (chenhsi)
SpyreX
Harvey Pew
Erg0 (ZeekLTK, MafiaSSK)
Adel (ComradeDaedalus)
Shy Guy (KNIGHT42)
forbiddanlight
Skruffs (Chelseafan)
Nameless

[armlx]

So... are we getting anywhere in this game?

[armlx]

Yeah, Skruffs and Erg0 are failing at this game. That post was 2 weeks ago.

I'm willing to vote for Zeek if it gets us somewhere.

[armlx]

Well, to hopefully shield my lover a little from deadline, Vote:Erg0

This concerns me.

[armlx]

why?

My main scum pairing was those 2 groups.

[armlx]

I want to see where this wagon goes.

[armlx]

I'm confused. Why do you have a problem with FL voting for Erg0?

Because if Erg0 = scum, and FL isn't, the Erg0/Nameless pair would be the one I'm looking and, and that seems odd to me.

If FL is scum, what about Erg0 being scum? FL/SG are the 2 scummiest people in the game IMO, and their sudden vote of Erg0 makes me think its too much to be bussing in that case.

Though each group has 1 person voting Erg0, so I dunno what its worth.

[armlx]

I got the Shy Guy VC mixed up with the Erg0 one. NVM.

what seems odd or unlikely about a Erg0/Nameles pair?

The fact SG/FL isn't in it mainly.

[armlx]

since you are basically dodging that question, why are you comfortable with Nameless voting with you? That implies that you feel that Nameless is town. Why do you think Nameless is town?

Which question? When was this asked?

And that said, I feel the Nameless/FS pair was the 2nd least likely of the others to be scum. Erg0 + SG was the one I was pretty much sure on. Mainly due to the aforementioned scumminess of Shy Guy, and Zeek's documented transgressions.

[armlx]

Why should I think you are town?

I don't know. My main response is other people are more scummy.

You have no evidence for why you think that Nameless and Erg0 would not be scum together. You have no evidence for why Namless would be town.

They could be, just SG has been so scummy I can't see otherwise.

[armlx]

I am getting around to it adel.

[armlx]

If player A appears by far the most scummy, then the knowledge that player B is slightly more scummier than player C becomes less important than ensuring player A is lynched.

Nameless wins a prize.

[quote"Skruffs"]
Hmm.

Vote: Adel
There is a much better "Second Vote" for people to place their vote upon.
[/quote]

Facepalm.....

[armlx]

-Adel, partner, I strongly caution against an Erg0 lynch. Never been convinced by anything that they are suspicious, and spryex's analysis of zeek seems to me like OMGUS.

As I've replaced into this game, Zeek & Nameless/Firestarter have both acted strangely. Zeek has been agreeing with me, saying actually now that since someone else has voiced concern of Adel he felt he could too, and that that is the right lynch.

think that Nameless-Zeek, Adel-armlx, and Nameless-armlx are most likely in that order. If I had to vote it would be nameless/Cyberbob. I hope to find time to re-read more before deadline, but I am unsure that that is a reasonable hope.

The last one was 2 posts by you ago. Outside of that you have said Zeek was town, but thats odd.

[armlx]

I didn't think it was OMGUS.

Definitely agree here. SpyreX's play so far has seemed 100% legit.

[armlx]

However, even if he is town, that is not to say that his argument's weren't partially motivated by OMGUS. That is also not to say that his arguments weren't invalid.

You were definitely implying it.

[armlx]

Quick answer: armlx/Skruffs and Adel/SpyreX as scum, Shy Guy/forbiddanlight as town.

What's the long answer?

[armlx]

Hmm, I'm starting to rethink this Ergo scum thing on the basis his lover group was 50% less voting Gimbo at lynch then Nameless/FS.

Shy Guy is still the right lynch.

[armlx]

I assume its a combo of only half voting and 0 votes that way while votes elsewhere.

[armlx]

I still like my Shy Guy vote.

[armlx]

Knight had a lot of unfollowed up suspicions on FS, both random voted each other.

Nameless barely made any votes at all......

The only thing I really wish had happened for info on nameless was a full wagon on Shy Guy to see how nameless would have reacted.

All 4 of Knight, fl, Nameless, and FS were on the Gimbo Lynch.

I would still much rather lynch Shy Guy though, and I can't take that pairing seriously given their votes there.

[armlx]

I'm posting this in all my games. My computer power cord just broke again, same issue as last time. I'm going to be on LA for a week or two while I wait for a new one to arrive.

[armlx]

If Nameless IS town, it's drumroll... Zeek/Harvey/FL/ShyGuy

Welcome to 10 pages ago. Where we both said that.

[armlx]

Skruffs, I see the contradiction. see my vote.

[armlx]

Erg0 AND Nameless are on this wagon... And Cyber. It officially has the plague due to the nice bus to L-1? + deadline lynch issue.

Unvote, Vote Nameless

Adel, that said, I still think SG was scummier outside the past couple pages then Nameless's nothing.

[armlx]

Erg0, bussing in this set up = fail. Especially putting someone at L-1.

[armlx]

EBWODP: That means, to clarify, if SG was scum, something would seriously have to be fucked up here as I think Adel is town.

[armlx]

Shy Guy (5) - armix, Skruffs, Erg0, Nameless, Cyberbob

That help?

[armlx]

Ok, so if you think Shy Guy is scum and Adel town then those are obviously conflicting viewpoints. Why do you believe that it was SG that you were wrong about?

The fact that him being scum + adel being town involves bussing to a game losing extent, and I think Adel + Shy Guy is less likely then the pairing I am currently voting for (Nameless + HP)

[armlx]

Uhh, yeah. Vote is officially standing till deadline.

[armlx]

What made you change your mind?

What I explained in my post after changing my vote. For you to be scum, Adel had to be too at that point, and I couldn't accept that.

Knight just bashing Gimbo all D1 was the real issue. The Gimbo lynch was just dumb in every way shape and form.