Mini 649-Everything comes down to money(Game Over)

[Netlava]

/confirm

[Netlava]

Vote: Artem

Random.

[Netlava]

Artem, why did you feel the need to change your vote, eh? Missed your scumbuddy?

[Netlava]

Placing a third vote shouldn't be a scumtell. Y.C., why do you think votes should be distributed equally?

Riboflavin, why do you think mentioning that explanation in particular is scummy?

Actually, Artem gets pro-town points in my book for preventing the scum from night-talking. I wouldn't have noticed the rules.

[Netlava]

I'm going to go ahead and see where this takes us. I feel that airhead's long explanation may be a case where scum over-explain their vote in the random phase.

Unvote, vote: airhead

[Netlava]

Airhead, I agree that being defensive is not a scum tell. That said, I think that in the random stage, scum often end up justifying their votes too much, which is a bit different than simply defending oneself. Also, how suspicous of you of sirD?

Y.C. and Artem's reaction to the teenaged males comment is a bit suspicious. I don't see how such a comment could be considered offensive, perhaps it is feigned?

Y.C.'s comment more so because of the following:

intended to either vent or steer away from the subject of discussion, you are making an "appeal to emotion"

I can argue that it was not an appeal to emotion in the first place, but your comment made it so by ascribing such characteristics to it. Also, one side comment like that in no way steers the subject off course, so I think you are inflating its significance.

Unvote, vote: Y.C.

Also, airhead's voting policy doesn't seem like a half bad idea. It can be argued that it is a better choice in general since it clarifies people's stances at various stages of the game. The only con I can think of is that it makes us more susceptible to quick lynches. What do you all think?

[Netlava]

Y.C., so you didn't find the comment scummy?

[Netlava]

Coron, thoughts on the game? Are you admitting that you are indeed lurking on purpose?

common coron join into our convos ur starting to become suspicous, it appears as though you are trying to stay low key, they only reason i could see to lay low in this game would be as scum or a power role e.g cop/doctor

As a rule of thumb, riboflavin, mentioning power roles is bad, and this post sounds like a set-up for future claims.

@ Light-kun: I explained why I found Y.C's comment scummy already but I'll try to clarify. The main thing I didn't like was the "intended to vent or steer away discussion" bit. It seems like he is assigning malicious intent to something that isn't there.

My comment to Airhead was about manner of delivery and not content, less due to a feeling that she is scum, more since I see this kind of stereotyping, even if not said completely seriously, as bad practice in what is ideally a logical debate.

This clarifies things a bit, but I'm not sure whether it follows from your initial post, seeing that you initially called it a major scumtell.

She is pursuing YC over Artem, and her reasoning is weak.

Well this argument assumes airhead is mafia (as you mentioned), but it also looks like you assume artem is more worthy of being pursued.

[Netlava]

Actually, I agree, I think Coron has a good chance of being a jester, because it looks like he is being scummy on purpose.

Now, here's the crucial piece of evidence...

Natirasha's favorite role is Roleblocker/Jester combo.

The wiki knows all!

Nati-Note: I don't like mod WIFOM.

[Netlava]

Eek, sorry, I was just joking

[Netlava]

Unvote, vote: Coron

[Netlava]

Coron apparently isn't feeling the pressure to even bother attempting to post. He's at L-1 now.

[Netlava]

coron = fake claimer

[Netlava]

Looks like sirdanilot was killed by the mafia aligned mafia and lifeofpie killed by the town aligned.

Light-kun, were you aware that coron had already been hammered when you voted?

[Netlava]

so am i suppose to tell you that im mafia aswell?

I hope you're claiming the town-aligned one?

[Netlava]

Riboflavin, do you know your alignment?

off topic, when you get killed do you find out who the mafia are? and when some1's killed do you find out if they were innocent or mafia?

I originally considered it a mild "town slip," but is it safe to say you did not know your alignment and assumed mafia?

[Netlava]

Hmm... this is interesting. I'm assuming riboflavin doesn't know his alignment, and I agree with light.

Vote: Riboflavin

Also, airhead appears to be missing.

Mod:

prod airhead?

[Netlava]

That's how the mafia should go down

[Netlava]

Sorry, been away from the computer mostly.

I was working under the assumption that light was town mafia yesterday, and I am still leaning towards believing his claim.

Therefore, I think airhead is the last remaining scum, even though she hasn't done anything particularly scummy this game.

I'll probably look over the game some time, but I don't see myself changing my vote.

[Netlava]

I thought it was implied that I am vanilla.

The "extra info" really just comes from the night scenes. Airhead, would you say that all the information mentioned can be gained from the night scene?

Light has dropped quite a few hints at his role since day 1, which makes me lean on believing his claim.

Also:

1) I forgot to consider the idea of a self-hammer, and I didn't like the wifom it was leading.

2) Like I said, I didn't know beforehand. It was all gained from the night scenes.

After reading through the game, Coron's constant complaining about airhead's posts looks like a direction for airhead to post less. I also don't like the sound of this:

Coron you need to get active in this game, or you are going to end up being lynched.

It looks like you are warning Coron.

[Netlava]

Hmm, airhead has already voted me, and no hammer, so that means airhead is scum.

Vote: airhead

If you know what a weak doctor is, and know that the scum mafia killed the town mafia, then it is a lot easier to figure it out.

And why would the town not know this?

[Netlava]

The thing that's scummy about airhead is that, aside from some minor links with Coron, she conveniently disappears as the wagon on Coron gains speed. Later, it turns out that she supposedly stopped posting on purpose and then forgot about the game, but the timing and the messages between the two are suspect.

Airhead's vote on sirD and subsequent backtrack is inconsistent. Airhead, starts off finding sirD scummy over some unrealistic expectation, which is fine, because it is better than a simple random vote. However, she keeps on pressing the issue, so it makes me a bit curious. I ask her how scummy does she think sirD is, and she does not answer, though responds to everything else in my post. She seems to upgrade sirD's position in her scum meter. But after this post:

Your constant throwing back suspicion on my because I am suspicious of you is keeping you up there as highly scummy. It seems like a thickly veiled OMGUS.

she finds sirD "highly" scummy. However, the next post she unvotes and puts a littlefos on sirD, and then downplays her earlier suspicions of sirD. While I am fine with changing opinions over the course of the game, this transition is inconsistent, but more importantly because she downplays earlier suspicions instead of merely indicating a change of opinion.

---

Then there is that bit about him knowing too much -- this is similar to the "congratulating the doctor" tell seen here: Finding Mafia. Scum and power roles have more information about what went on at night and are more likely to discuss it and accurately know what happened.

I like how you linked up two unrelated things.

Really the #1 major thing that should help you figure out to lynch him and not me is his inconsistency day 1 treating Coron. First he is a Jester and shouldn't be lynched, then when he gets put at lynch -2 Netlava votes him immediately and starts actively pushing Coron's lynch.

Incorrect. My vote was a pressure vote to determine whether or not he was a jester, and "actively pushing" is a blatant mischaracterization. It turns out he claimed something not on the mod list, and I realized that jesters would have self hammered already.

The town would have a lot more trouble figuring it out if they had no inside information. You already knew that the scum mafia killed the town mafia, so it was a lot easier for you to figure out what happened that night.

Please tell me what exactly is this inside information you speak of.

I turned out to be right. I hope you get it right too so my first mafia game can be a successful town victory.

rofl

[Netlava]

Yay! I'm scum!