Mini Normal 2152 | JDM | Endgame

[maxwell]

VOTE: beeboy

[maxwell]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: dsjstr

[maxwell]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: dsjstr

Why the vote switch?

His post was worse.

[maxwell]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: dsjstr

Why the vote switch?

His post was worse.

Can I have more details on why it was worse?

Puree empty content that does nothing to impact the game in any way. Which is also what all his subsequent posts have been.

[maxwell]

I think that an awkward/fillery start is more likely to come from scum than town, yes.

[maxwell]

Could people cut down on the quadruple and quintuple posting? Maybe I'm showing my age here but I find it really hinders readability.

VOTE: Max

idc if you call it OMGUS

Someone's a bit rattled by a page 1 vote, I'd say.

[maxwell]

If any scum were on my wagon it would probably more likely be BM for being opportunistic but lets put pressure on Max

You think he's more likely to be scum but are voting me because...I deserve to be pressured? Wouldn't it make more sense to pressure your scumread? What are you hoping to accomplish here?

This is why RVS sucks, the game has had all the energy of a fat elderly cat on a hot summer day for the first 4 pages. I was hoping to wait it out until there was something more substantial but it seems like that's unlikely to happen on its own so I'll work with what I've got. Most of the people in this game are varying degrees of scummy, not much in the way of solid townreads.

beeboy

- Townreads in 38 feel like they come a bit too easy and the vote on elsa feels lazy, a push toward an inactive player rather than scrutinizing people who have actually posted.

dsjstr

- bizarre, overemotional, defensive response to what has really been very minor prodding on my end, 59 has a bit of "why me" to it, lot of complaining about other people but not much in the way of atempts at engagement with them. Maybe I'm a bit tunneled but have a hard time seeing this as a town reaction.

votato

- mostly fillery which is to be expected from early game but 33 + 35 is a weird ask for page 2 as if it's possible to have a list of reads, looks like a forced to attempt to look town by asking a serious question early, but never has any real followup to this so it seems like he didn't much actually care what people said in response. scum lean here but I guess we have to wait to see how the replacement does.

raya36

- I like the way she's shown a seriousness to her approach to the game and is trying to ask meaningful questions. The reasoning in 67/68 looks like a believable town mindset of someone trying to scumhunt as well as the way she interrogated beeboy.

elsa jay

- basically nothing so far but I somewhat like the admission of just wanting to follow someone in 90, feels more likely someone would admit this as town than as scum. current push on her feels like low hanging fruit.

battle mage

- almost everything posted so far reads null, disagree with the push on elsa but the conviction behind it is believable from the way he's doing it.

testarossa

- I don't really like how waffle-y her posts get, in 46 and 47 for instance she ultimately just says something to the effect of "could go either way." 109 rubs me the wrong way with the jump on Elsa Jay.

At this point I suspect half the people in the game, so I'm going to ask everyone a question to try to get some substance in here:

@beeboy:

What is your read on dsjstr?

@dsjstr:

What is your read on Testarossa?

@raya36:

What is your read on Elsa Jay?

@elsa jay:

What is your read on Battle Mage?

@battle mage:

What is your read on beeboy?

@testarossa:

Why does Raya36 look town to you?

[maxwell]

Right now I see everyone as scum. Anyone could have faked being towny because of how things played out so far. I will say that it did seem like Elsa was trying to instigate further reactions from me so I would put BM and Testa as townier than the other mafia.

What an odd statement. How was he trying to instigate a reaction from you?

---

Really don't like 126 from beeboy.

[maxwell]

@testarossa:

Why does Raya36 look town to you?

It's mostly that I feel she displays a genuine interest to figure other people out and shows an interest in details like in 65 that I rather see coming from town than scum. I also think there isn't really any merit for her as scum in handing out a townlean on me as I don't feel I haven't done much town indicative that would warrant a necessity given the state of this game, yet it doesn't feel like an informed townlean.

On something different, what is your take on the situation around the major pushes so far? I mean that all seem to end in apathetic reactions (well, except dsjstr, but this one also doesn't seem to go anywhere else).

I don't know who qualifies as a "major push" but I don't like the votes on Elsa and think the their attitude is much more likely unmotivated town. dsjstr I was almost going to back down on because of his attitude but his explanations for everything in his recent posts is just totally nonsensical.

Right now I see everyone as scum. Anyone could have faked being towny because of how things played out so far. I will say that it did seem like Elsa was trying to instigate further reactions from me so I would put BM and Testa as townier than the other mafia.

What an odd statement. How was he trying to instigate a reaction from you?

Jester you still haven't found an icon for yourself? The white box makes me eanna glance over you.

Elsa's comment had no intention of trying to add anything to the game it was only to provoke further anger.

You also seem to have no intention to solve only saying empty false statements.

I find the comment on the avatar to be totally null and the idea I'm not trying to sort is factually fucking incorrect and super ironic coming from mr. "I scumread everyone"

Am I the only one that finds this post incredibly scummy btw?

Go ahead and explain it to me, tough guy.

[maxwell]

You phrase it that way you're trying to predispose people to reading scum intent to it. That in itself is scummy.

[maxwell]

Every single read is non committal to some degree, the only town degree is on Raya so he is leaving himself open to push every other player.
The questions at the bottom of the post aren't followed up on.
The question at the bottom aren't related to the blurb about the player a large portion of the time.

My reads weren't solid because it was a few pages in and hardly anyone had posted anything. I don't like pre-emptively writing people off as town.
I haven't had time to follow up on them because few people answered and I spent most of today feeling horribly unmotivated.
I asked people to comment on someone they hadn't said much about (for the most part). I want people to take positions so we can reference them later

But fuck me for trying to contribute something to this game, right?

[maxwell]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: beeboy

Yeah you know what I'm not gonna let that bullshit misrepresentation slide (for reference, less than 24 hours had passed since that post where he accuses me of "not following up") and I've tried to address people.

[maxwell]

I don't think there's any guarantee of an investigative role in the setup, I'd prefer to play day 1 as normal and sentence someone. Setups on this site aren't designed around the idea of no elimination on day 1 and wouldf imagine this was designed around preserving that meta.

[maxwell]

So your saying follow meta, kill me, watch PR get NKed, then exe the second wrong person and lose?

I am not in favor of eliminating you, and never have been.

I don't think there's any guarantee of an investigative role in the setup, I'd prefer to play day 1 as normal and sentence someone. Setups on this site aren't designed around the idea of no elimination on day 1 and wouldf imagine this was designed around preserving that meta.

It's beneficial even if there are no investigative roles (unlikely).

What gives you that confidence? You've been registered on this site for a month. I am telling you, point blank, it's entirely possible there's no investigative role and there's a power role that can either be an extra kill or prevent a kill. I've seen plenty of Normal queue games and I know that's likely the case.

[maxwell]

124 puzzles me. Four out of the seven reads look like setting up mislynches to pursue in case one of them gained traction, and you know this.

I already explained this, I didn't have solid reads because it was early and found more than a few people could plausibly be scum. I don't write people off as town until I feel I have good reason to. Am I going to have to repeat this over and over? God, this is annoying. At any rate, why do I need to set up 4 mislynches in an 8 player game?

[maxwell]

VOTE: Elsa Jay L-1

Fine we won't get Maxwell.

Ludicrously scummy move. Seriously. Does no one else see this?

[maxwell]

124 puzzles me. Four out of the seven reads look like setting up mislynches to pursue in case one of them gained traction, and you know this.

I already explained this, I didn't have solid reads because it was early and found more than a few people could plausibly be scum. I don't write people off as town until I feel I have good reason to. Am I going to have to repeat this over and over? God, this is annoying. At any rate, why do I need to set up 4 mislynches in an 8 player game?

But that's not my point. Raya (as town) pushed a player for a similar reason in one of his most recent completed games, so I wonder how this is any different.

Okay, it looked like your post was addressed at me so I didn't really understand it.

I kind of disagree, in the last game I played with him he had stronger stances and just approached the game in a far more calculated and consistent way. He was globally scum read in that game and remained pretty calm while in this game it feels like he is flipping out on me despite me being the only player to pressure him. It just doesn't make sense to me, I don't see why he would just throw the great game he played last time away to play like this?? Both games were micros as well so I don't think it's a setting issue...

The environments of those games are fairly different, in that one I was content with being self-sacrificing because even if I was eliminated I could direct town to clear a certain portion of the board, I just needed to be confident in a couple strong townreads. Here I don't have that luxury, I have to actually fight back against a bad case on me. (I'm also just in not as good of a mood, this game's been really frustrating and unfun with the activity levels). I don't think you're remotely close to how you were in that game either, I think when you finally started to break down and analyze people there you pretty quickly showed yourself as town but here both of your pushes have been incredibly weak and your analysis has no depth.


Think Nash from his entry is probtown, Testarossa is starting to look more town, Raya has faded.

[maxwell]

VOTE: Elsa Jay L-1

Fine we won't get Maxwell.

Ludicrously scummy move. Seriously. Does no one else see this?

putting scum at -1? jury's out as to whether that's scummy.

The way he moved to drop that vote on the major wagon? Yeah, absolutely it is.

Both max and beeboy seem to suspect each other to a major extent based on a former game(s). Can't really weigh in on this. Which game are you talking about?

Noughts and Crosses Blitz. This was my first game back after a long hiatus, keep in mind it's a very unusual setup in terms of mechanics. For a cross-reeference, here's my scum game in SIR Disease - it's not a great reference, because it was a replace in to a 340+ page game in a slot that was already widely suspected, but it shows that I don't have trouble generating opinions as scum.

Promised read on dsjstr:

31 is good because it doesnt jump on something easy. Trying to understand Beeboy when we were all confused was good too and also so was pointing out the correction instead of trying to roll with it being a scumslip. The rest of his content is ok. So I'll give him a null townlean

That's all you have to say? Really?

Huh.

Well my mood shift fucked me over this game.

...what is that supposed to mean?

[maxwell]

Okay. Why do you dislike the Raya wagon? What are your thoughts on Testarossa, who is also voting you? Why does Battle Mage trying hard to get you killed make him town?

[maxwell]

Promised read on dsjstr:

31 is good because it doesnt jump on something easy. Trying to understand Beeboy when we were all confused was good too and also so was pointing out the correction instead of trying to roll with it being a scumslip. The rest of his content is ok. So I'll give him a null townlean

That's all you have to say? Really?

I don't know what to tell you I have a null read on him and I gave my reasons. What else do you want?

It just feels like a very weak non-analysis. Your only conclusion is that is content is "ok"?

Never seen someone want me dead so bad.

Obviously town don't listen to him tommorow even id I don't townread him.

If any of you read Team Mafia 2020 though you'll realize this behavior isn't unique here either.

Are you going to answer my questions?

[maxwell]

I've no interest in voting Nash. I wanted to believe Elsa was just town having trouble getting interested in the game (because I feel that sentiment and it's been a not great game so far) but this doesn't look like town resignation, he's not outing reads or really saying much of anything and wouldn't answer me when I tried to push him to give something. Looks more like an admission of defeat.

[maxwell]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Elsa

Was waiting to see if there was any comment, there wasn't, talked myself into this being an okay vote.

[maxwell]

With lack of a kill + confirmed vig I don't see any reason not to claim? Gives 2 confirmed clears at a minimum.

[maxwell]

this could also make me conftown too, which is super helpful.

Although question - would Nash-scum be willy enough to run a no-kill, doc-claim gambit? Very unlikely, but theoretically possible.

In a setup with evens I very much doubt it as it'd just give town an extra execution & his role makes sense with how he was acting yesterday.

[maxwell]

VT. Testarossa can go next.

[maxwell]

It's legit autowin with the save on battle mage. Just vote any of me/beeboy/dsj, shoot one, vote the last.

[maxwell]

Looking back on day 1 Raya's beeboy vote doesn't look like a bus so I'll just accept I was likely wrong there. obviously we wait for beeboy's claim but at this point I think the game's wrapped up.

VOTE: dsjstr

[maxwell]

Tbh if Maxwell was a villa then I"d have played like total dog this game >__>
Ayy lmao I'll take medium play.

Eh you had me dead to rights. I'm still rusty, wrote a post for optics underestimating how it'd be received (although I'd likely have similar levels of uncertainty in my reads as town at that point). Activity levels in the game were really frustrating, though.

It did feel a little powerful on the town side, but night 1 went basically the worst scenario possible for mafia. If I'd made either of the other two kills I'd considered, it would have been at least a little better. I just wasn't thinking to PR hunt. Compulsive vig could have been a problem for town had things played out differently. Normal setups overall seem more townsided than when I last played.